What is left of the government’s definitive identification of Russia as the culprit in the Salisbury attack? It is a simple truth that Russia is not the only state that could have made the nerve agent: dozens of them could. It could also have been made by many non-state actors.
Motorola sales agent Gary Aitkenhead – inexplicably since January, Chief Executive of Porton Down chemical weapons establishment – said in his Sky interview that “probably” only a state actor could create the nerve agent. That is to admit the possibility that a non state actor could. David Collum, Professor of Organo-Chemistry at Cornell University, infinitely more qualified than a Motorola salesman, has stated that his senior students could do it. Professor Collum tweeted me this morning.
The key point in his tweet is, of course “if asked”. The state and corporate media has not asked Prof. Collum nor any of the Professors of Organic Chemistry in the UK. There simply is no basic investigative journalism happening around this case.
So given that the weapon itself is not firm evidence it was Russia that did it, what is Boris Johnson’s evidence? It turns out that the British government’s evidence is no more than the technique of smearing nerve agent on the door handle. All of the UK media have been briefed by “security sources” that the UK has a copy of a secret Russian assassin training manual detailing how to put nerve agent on door handles, and that given the nerve agent was found on the Skripals door handle, this is the clinching evidence which convinced NATO allies of Russia’s guilt.
As the Daily Mirror reported in direct quotes of the “security source”
“It amounts to Russia’s tradecraft manual on applying poison to door handles. It’s the smoking gun. It is strong proof that in the last ten years Russia has researched methods to apply poisons, including by using door handles. The significant detail is that these were the facts that helped persuade allies it could only be Russia that did this.”
Precisely the same government briefing is published by the Daily Mail in a bigger splash here, and reflected in numerous other mainstream propaganda outlets.
Two questions arise. How credible is the British government’s possession of a Russian secret training manual for using novichok agents, and how credible is it that the Skripals were poisoned by their doorknob.
To take the second question first, I see major problems with the notion that the Skripals were poisoned by their doorknob.
The first is this. After what Dame Sally Davis, Chief Medical officer for England, called “rigorous scientific analysis” of the substance used on the Skripals, the government advised those who may have been in contact to wash their clothes and wipe surfaces with warm water and wet wipes. Suspect locations were hosed down by the fire brigade.
But if the substance was in a form that could be washed away, why was it placed on an external door knob? It was in point of fact raining heavily in Salisbury that day, and indeed had been for some time.
Can somebody explain to me the scenario in which two people both touch the exterior door handle in exiting and closing the door? And if it transferred from one to the other, why did it not also transfer to the doctor who gave extensive aid that brought her in close bodily contact, including with fluids?
The second problem is that the Novichok family of nerve agents are instant acting. There is no such thing as a delayed reaction nerve agent. Remember we have been specifically told by Theresa May that this nerve agent is up to ten times more powerful than VX, the Porton Down developed nerve agent that killed Kim’s brother in 15 minutes.
But if it was on the doorknob, the last contact they could possibly have had with the nerve agent was a full three hours before it took effect. Not only that, they were well enough to drive, to walk around a shopping centre, visit a pub, and then – and this is the truly unbelievable bit – their central nervous systems felt in such good fettle, and their digestive systems so in balance, they were able to sit down and eat a full restaurant meal. Only after all that were they – both at precisely the same time despite their substantially different weights – suddenly struck down by the nerve agent, which went from no effects at all, to deadly, on an alarm clock basis.
This narrative simply is not remotely credible. Nerve agents – above all “military grade nerve agents” – were designed as battlefield weapons. They do not leave opponents fighting fit for hours. There is no description in the scientific literature of a nerve agent having this extraordinary time bomb effect. Here another genuine Professor describes their fast action in Scientific American:
Unlike traditional poisons, nerve agents don’t need to be added to food and drink to be effective. They are quite volatile, colourless liquids (except VX, said to resemble engine oil). The concentration in the vapour at room temperature is lethal. The symptoms of poisoning come on quickly, and include chest tightening, difficulty in breathing, and very likely asphyxiation. Associated symptoms include vomiting and massive incontinence. Victims of the Tokyo subway attack were reported to be bringing up blood. Kim Jong-nam died in less than 20 minutes. Eventually, you die either through asphyxiation or cardiac arrest.
If the nerve agent was on the door handle and they touched it, the onset of these symptoms would have occurred before they reached the car. They would certainly have not felt like sitting down to a good lunch two hours later. And they would have been dead three weeks ago. We all pray that Sergei also recovers.
The second part of the extraordinarily happy coincidence of the nerve agent being on the door handle, and the British government having a Russian manual on applying nerve agent to door handles, is whether the manual is real. It strikes me this is improbable – it rings far too much of the kind of intel they had on Iraqi WMD. It also allegedly dates from the last ten years, so Putin’s Russia, not the period of chaos, and the FSB is a pretty tight organisation in this period. MI6 penetration is just not that good.
A key question is of course how long the UK has had this manual, and what was its provenance. Another key question is why Britain failed to produce it to the OPCW – and indeed why it does not publish it now, with any identifying marks of the particular copy excluded, given it has widely publicised its existence and possession of it. If Boris Johnson wants to be believed by us, publish the Russian manual.
We also have to consider whether the FSB really publishes its secret assassination techniques in a manual. I attended, as other senior FCO staff, a number of MI6 training courses. One on explosives handling was at Fort Monckton, not too far from Salisbury. One in a very nondescript London office block was on bugging techniques. I recall seeing rigs set up to drill minute holes in walls, turning very slowly indeed. Many hours to get through the wall but almost no noise or vibration. It was where I learnt the government can listen to you through activating the microphone in your mobile phone, even when your phone is switched off. I recall javelin like directional microphones suspended from ceilings to point at distant targets, and a listening device that worked through a beam of infra-red light, but the target could foil by closing the curtains.
The point is that there were of course no manuals for this stuff, no manuals for any other secret MI6 techniques, and these things are not lightly written down.
I would add to this explanation that I lost all faith in the police investigation when it was taken out of the hands of the local police force and given to the highly politicised Metropolitan Police anti-terror squad. I suspect the explanation of the remarkably convenient (but physically impossible) evidence of the door handle method that precisely fits the “Russian manual” may lie there.
These are some of the problems I have with the official account of events. Boris lied about the certainty of the provenance of the nerve agent, and his fall back evidence is at present highly unconvincing. None of which proves it was not the Russian state that was responsible. But there is no convincing proof that it was, and there are several other possibilities. Eventually the glaring problems with the official narrative might be resolved, but what is plain is that Johnson and May have been premature and grossly irresponsible.
I shall post this evening on Johnson’s final claim, that only the Russians had motive.
Update: I have just listened to the released alleged phone conversation between Yulia Skripal in Salisbury Hospital and her cousin Viktoria, which deepens the mystery further. I should say that in Russian the conversation sounds perfectly natural to me. My concern is after the 30 seconds mark where Viktoria tells Yulia she is applying for a British visa to come and see Yulia.
Yulia replies “nobody will give you a visa”. Viktoria then tells Yulia that if she is asked if she wants Viktoria to visit, she should say yes. Yulia’s reply to this is along the lines of “that will not happen in this situation”, meaning she would not be allowed by the British to see Viktoria. I apologise my Russian is very rusty for a Kremlinbot, and someone might give a better translation, but this key response from Yulia is missing from all the transcripts I have seen.
What is there about Yulia’s situation that makes her feel a meeting between her and her cousin will be prevented by the British government? And why would Yulia believe the British government will not give her cousin a visa in the circumstance of these extreme family illnesses?
Yulia does not jump with joy at the prospect of seeing her niece in the UK. When Viktoria is asking Yulia to “say Yes” to her coming to visit her in case her visa is issued, Yulia bluntly says: “No, you know what the situation is like at the moment.” They clearly have something to talk about as Yulia keeps repeating: “We can discuss everything later.”
Viktoria says she’ll come on Monday if she gets a visa, and Yulia replies “Nobody will give you one, Vik”.
Yulia seems the more experienced of the two in speaking on the telephone when someone may be (or in this case, definitely is) listening. Which is not surprising.
The biggest revelation here is that Sergei is NOT comatose. If a person is comatose, you would not say they are “resting” (отдыхает).
You are missing the continuation of their conversation at 0:46 – 50, where Yulia says “Well, I think NO…”, when asked by V if she could come and visit her provided her visa is granted. V says she needs Yulia say “Yes”, but Yulia is replying “No”. Watch their conversation on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naiq1b-SemE
The idea of detailed intructions about smearing nerve agent on door handles is hilarious. I just cleaned one of my door knobs with Brasso; a two-part operation of considerably more complexity. I didn’t need to consult any detailed instructions! Does the same manual contain detailed instructions for the operative to wash their hands afterwards?
“Does the same manual contain detailed instructions for the operative to wash their hands afterwards?”
.
Of course it does!
Those KGB agents are getting pissed of with calls from Insurance companies promising big payouts.
Workers of the world unite against Elfin’ Safety in the Glorious Motherland.
The first official statement by Yulia Skripal from Salisbury hospital via the Met Police: “I am grateful for the interest in me and for the many messages of goodwill that I have received.“ “I have many people to thank for my recovery and would especially like to mention the people of Salisbury that came to my aid when my father and I were incapacitated.”
“Further than that, I would like to thank the staff at Salisbury District Hospital for their care and professionalism.”
“I am sure you appreciate that the entire episode is somewhat disorientating, and I hope that you’ll respect my privacy and that of my family during the period of my convalescence.”
“The first official statement by the UK government from Whitehall via the Met Police…”
FTFY.
The stuff with sudden phone call and statement could mean that May & Co could be trying to conclude without losing face
“I should say that in Russian the conversation sounds perfectly natural to me.”
Yes perfectly natural for Russians to recode telephone calls that they receive unannounced from abroad so that they can subsequently be broadcast on State TV. Funny how Craig does not apply the same scepticism to the Russian state as he does to his own.
Russians must be a very stoic people. After a near death experience – they can still talk things over, everything can be solved.. Somethings don’t add up.
This is the country that went through WWII, Leningrad and Stalingrad – remember?
Gulags and pogroms too.
Sounds like the US then.
Which makes the boorish Johnson’s comments about the nazis and the war all the more insulting to all Russians and natives of all the Soviet republics who resisted so strongly during ‘The Great Patriotic War’.
And lost some 25 million people.
It’s even more insulting when you realise that Putins brother died in Stalingrad under Nazi siege at the age of 1, Putin doesn’t even know where he is buried.
Further to that, as I recall from the latest “Putin” documentary, legend is that Putin’s mother was so near death from starvation, she was found with a group of cadavers (and presumably the near dead) ready to be carted to the next mass grave dug during the siege of Leningrad.
Nothing irreversible (like being murdered) has happened yet–might be one interpretation.
Same thought struck me.
I was also surprised that after all that’s happened the conversation was so short. Are all Russian women so reticent?
No – I married one! I am amazed that if this was a conversation between two friends that they both spoke in little more than one liners, almost as though it was scripted for TV.
One of the problem with the old Moscow telephone system was that because everyone spoke for so long it often took ages to get one of the few still available lines.
And local calls were free.
Take my word even when calls are not free Russian women still spend a lot of time on the phone.
It was claimed by the source that Victoria Skripal offered this recording to TV station. My personal question would be “why would she actually record this conversation in the first place?”. Well, I don’t normally record my phone calls to my relatives. But who knows these KGB families, maybe they do it out of habit. 🙂
Considering British government doesn’t share any and all hard evidence, blaming other side for getting the data it can get is ridiculous.
Also the BBC and a myriad of other media and reporters are chasing her for interviews and comments as well as probably the Russian State, so maybe one of these told her she needed to protect herself. Or who knows perhaps the state has bugged her phone with or without her permission.
Recode?.
is that a Freudian slip, perchance?
I trust they will publish the manual. Only not yet. (Still some work to do to make it look authentic).
I agree on the points raised by you. I am not a scientist nor do I have any knowledge on nerve agents etc. I am 76 year old woman who has lived in London all my life. I am fairly ordinary. But from the first day of Skripal incident I was instinctively extremely dubious of the narrative in the news. My gut rection was , if Russia and Putin are so dangerous and to feared,(as we are supposed to believe), why ever woud they pull such an amateur stunt as this?? A) they didnt die b) smeared on a door handle? (could have been touched by either him or his daughter, the postman etc) , c) If it was the chemical agent they said it was, then it was old and could have lost some of its potentcy and if so why woud Putin use it in 2018? Im sure he would have had a more up to date version? d) Why no pictures or visitors for the 2 people in hospital? e) Your expert says that even the fumes would kill- so how is it that the policeman and paramedics were all ok? I coulf go on……………………………
How many CCTV camera’s are located in Salisbury, surveillance state Britain? Public and private owned?
A quick tour around google street map would give an indication. Even the CCTV that would provide the coverage leading to the estate/house. Over 100?
And not one clip or still of an unaccountable ”suspect” or ”vehicle” arriving into or out of the town, the estate, the roads during the very narrow window of time to contaminate the door handle? There still sticking to the door handle, right? Did they parachute in? Was it Postman Pat?
After every terrorist attack in the UK, the state released frame after frame, clip after clip of the perpetrators direction of travel. Is it that the stills for this ”attack” unfortunately end with some bloke looking like Boris pulling up at the gates of Porton Down? ”Job done” says Bozo straight into the camera……
Its a swindle.
Plus they would have closed UK borders and airports immediately.
Yeah like after the Manchester bombing…………….good point, well made.
Very much as the massed American military satellites, radar, etc. failed to record any data about the attack on MH17.
And, of course, both civil and miltary Ukrainian radar systems just happened to be down at the time.
A full month since the beginning of pantomime season and Theresa and her love waltz, soft focus, across the fresh green of North Wales – in what way is this woman ‘representing’ the British people? Why are the British people still paying for the BBC? Why are the British people languishing with the mood music rather than getting rid of this government??
I think you are being unfair to Gary Aiitkenhead. No he is not a chemist but he is a well qualified engineer (BEng (Hons) Electrical and Electronic Engineering 1985 – 1989 University of Strathclyde First Class Honours degree. Awarded Magnus McLean Memorial Medal by Strathclyde University (1989) for academic distinction (top student in year)).
He also has a good track record of managing technical companies and seems generally reported as able to motivate his staff, not an easy thing with chemists. Most chemists I know, and I know a few, are not what you would call people people, nor particularly interested in day to day management of large organisations, certainly not ones like Porton Down. He is in a very difficult position, but has stuck out for the integrity of his staff as far as he is able.
And yes the basic substances needed to make a novichok are readily identifiable – it would seem that was the idea – but combing them together safely requires highly specialised facilities. One of its creators, Vladimir Uglev is still around and has been interviewed recently. He says the speed and time it takes to work depends on the type of nerve agent and the variant used.
My question is still – why are we picking a fight with Russia?
To set precedence.
In reply to your question. why are we picking a fight with Russia?
A. Because it worked so well last time:)
Next thing the Skripals will be telling us it was all down to a dodgy curry they had the night before.
Will May get up in the House to denounce India and expel Indian diplomats?
“…….a lamb rogan josh of a type developed by India……”
You may have a point, JG, it may have been something else that hit the two as they were sitting on the park bench, the doctor who treated them first suggested drugs, then she disappeared. We were told the Skripals were on life support, then miraculously Yulia recovered, now the old man’s up and sleeping.
What were the Porton Down boys examining then? Or the samples furnished to the OPCW? If it turns out it wasn’t Novichok at ball, how will Teresa get out of it?
The 3hr time span home and bench, at least when they drove to Sainsbury’s and parked during which they drove around, I always have thought ground zero has to be somewhere from zizi’s to the bench for both to have been affected at exactly the same time.
“What were the Porton Down boys examining then? Or the samples furnished to the OPCW?”
In the absence of a chain of custody, both could be literally anything – from arsenic to dog shit.
No way they defame the UK gov’t. Porton Down “Scientists” don’t make mistakes, commit atrocities on our own people yes but not testing mistakes.They didn’t just test samples of something smeared in different places. They would have tested blood samples from the two of them. So either someone was giving them bogus samples to test, the scientists doing the testing were a secret team who were part of the fake or they were poisoned with such a very low amount of the nerve agent that it didn’t defeat the immune system (not a scientist or doctor just guessing). I don’t know which but the problem that I find in my guesses is Craig’s original source in the FO.They stated PD wasn’t happy about being pressured. That would kind of rule out a secret team doing the testing if someone in the FO had contacts with the Testers. So that leave the other two options for me and I don’t know which. They could both be done by different sides of this for differing reasons. Blame Russia, Bring down the Tory Gov’t.
“So either someone was giving them bogus samples to test, the scientists doing the testing were a secret team who were part of the fake or they were poisoned with such a very low amount of the nerve agent that it didn’t defeat the immune system…”
The “bogus sample” possibility seems to me highly likely. Everything has been kept secret, large teams of strangers were being switched in and out – samples could have been switched with great ease.
It is also conceivable that some of the scientists may have been either bribed, threatened, or asked to “lie for England”.
The “immune system” idea is ruled out, as nerve agents aren’t the kind of attack that the immune system can recognize, let alone combat. A nerve agent goes straight for the throat (metaphorically), disabling the enzyme(s) that destroy excess neurotransmitter (usually acetylcholine). Within seconds enough acetylcholine builds up to turn all your muscles “hard ON” and keep them that way. A very nasty way to die.
The BBC’s summary of events to date
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636
Is that the most up-to-date link? It’s from a week ago.
They haven’t had any further instructions from the government on what they are to say and not to say.
Until further notice, this is a “non-topic”. It has been blackholed.
” But if the substance was in a form that could be washed away, why was it placed on an external door knob? It was in point of fact raining heavily in Salisbury that day, and indeed had been for some time. ”
Not quite true, it rained heavily in the early hours and again in the afternoon, probably when the Skripal’s were in the restaurant.
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/uk/salisbury/historic?month=3&year=2018
” Can somebody explain to me the scenario in which two people both touch the exterior door handle in exiting and closing the door? And if it transferred from one to the other, why did it not also transfer to the doctor who gave extensive aid that brought her in close bodily contact, including with fluids? ”
Err. They leave the house together, Sergei closes the door then Yulia realises she’s forgotten her phone/hat/gloves/purse/turn the gas off and goes back inside? Sergei leaves the house a few minutes ahead of Yulia and closes the door behind him to keep the heat in? Not beyond the realms of possibility.
If you look at photos of the house, it is fairly clear that the door handle is covered by the overhang from the roof. Previous reports from the Russian scientists who worked with Novichoks (see the NOvaya Gazeta article) also show that they are not always instantly effective and/or permanent. But hey what does Novaya Gazeta, whose journalists are regularly murdered and harassed by the regime know about these things?
How about you answer these questions from a 76 year old woman first (see post above):
“if Russia and Putin are so dangerous and to feared,(as we are supposed to believe), why ever woud they pull such an amateur stunt as this?? A) they didnt die b) smeared on a door handle? (could have been touched by either him or his daughter, the postman etc) , c) If it was the chemical agent they said it was, then it was old and could have lost some of its potentcy and if so why woud Putin use it in 2018? Im sure he would have had a more up to date version? d) Why no pictures or visitors for the 2 people in hospital? e) Your expert says that even the fumes would kill- so how is it that the policeman and paramedics were all ok? I coulf go on………………………”
To rubbish the suggestion that the doorknob was smeared with the toxin and that all three affected were contaminated by touching said doorknob, but only became ill hours later, you have to come up with a method of action for the delay that affected all three.
So, over to you, good luck with that.
How about. The policeman was contaminated when he took Skripal’s keys. Then he contaminated the knob when entering the house.
I had a similar idea. The detective was contaminated when he took the keys (which were contaminated after being handled by Skripal). He then spread the poison to the door handle when he went to check the house. DS Bailey or the case officer later passed the contaminated car key to the second officer who was only mildly affected and was treated as an outpatient. This could imply a fast acting compound, administered in or near the park (recall removal of the bench, yet the front door remained in place). It would further indicate a type which deteriorates and loses effectiveness quite rapidly, which also helps explain the repeated assurances from early on that there was little to no risk to the public.
Whilst LBC.co.uk feature an outraged IAIN DALE this evening, who appears really genuinely shocked that a very large proportion of his listeners appear to believe not a single glove or hat or doorknob about this whole fairy story.
IAIN DALE then goes and gets a plummy spokesman from the Henry Jackson Society [FFS!] to explain things again to us children.
[FFS! = Henry Jackson Society founding member Marko Attila Hoare [said] after resigning from the group in 2012. “. . . it has become an abrasively right-wing forum with an anti-Muslim tinge, churning out polemical and superficial pieces by aspiring journalists and pundits that pander to a narrow readership of extreme Europhobic British Tories, hardline US Republicans and I sr a e l i Likudniks.”
Simon Davies [Privacy International] said further The Henry Jackson Society continues this legacy with a solid pro-military commitment to US interventionist policy; Author and security specialist Nafeez Ahmed summed up the Society rather neatly, observing:
“While touting their support for freedom, liberalism and democratisation as their core organisational remit, in practice they appear to be a neocon trojan horse for the very opposite: state-expansionism, state-militarisation, interventionism, rampant market deregulation and privatisation in the interests of Western investors, coupled with anti-Muslim hostility and white supremacism
Why would LBC even stoop so low?, that’s pure powerful state broadcaster Blair’s BBC territory.
“Not beyond the realms of possibility”.
But certainly not something a professional assassin would count on.
Presumably everyone doubting the claims that someone other than the Russian State might have produced ‘Novichoks’ have read this https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/04/01/update-to-briefing-note-doubts-about-novichoks/ ?
I have as much trouble believing in the cousin Viktoria angle as I do the FSB manual detailing a door knob method for administering nerve agent. Maybe if there are social media accounts linking Yulia, Viktoria and other family (past and present) with even a few interactions, but going back a considerable time, it might seem more convincing. I haven’t seen anything like that yet and frankly if such records were produced now I’d be sceptical. But as things stand, having read Victoria’s claim that UK Embassy promised to expedite her visa application, and today a transcript of this alleged phone call as well as the statement issued on behalf of Yulia, the whole thread lacks credibility.
There has been a lot of information to absorb about this whole story.
Pictures of her with Yulia and her father in England were published in the Daily Mail at one point.
Pictures with pets – Victoria is looking after Yulias pets – all documented in the tabloids and on the BBC
There is also a 90 year old grandmother still alive
Thanks for info on photos of Viktoria, James. A pity someone couldn’t care for the pets here. Today a UK newspaper reported one of Segei’s two cats is dead and that his hamsters died in early March after a few days alone in the house without water. These same pets were also reportedly taken to Porton Down for testing a few weeks ago according to earlier news reports. Seems impossible to get a bead on any detail in this case, however trivial.
Apologies, G Bng has straightened out the pets storyline nicely in a later comment.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/knobs-and-knockers/comment-page-5/#comment-731672
Already been posted here and elsewhere, there are old accounts on vk.com and facebook, just do a Google search, you really need to get your head out of the sand.
The phone call was apparently real and it was Yulia… the fact that not 3 hours after the press started reporting the phone call in which Viktoria says she is coming to the UK to see Yulia, Scotland Yard suddenly pops up with a statement from her. Big Big coincidence again.
What you want in a CEO is a blagger par excellence, as opposed to the run-of-the-mill blagger that moves seamlessly from Eton to the City.
Perhaps someone has mentioned this already?
The CIA Manual:
https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cia-manual-trickery-deception-2009.pdf
Chapter IV on handling of liquids is interesting. Seems like our friendly Yankee spies need to refer to a manual in order to remember not to touch the stuff.
Much more interesting for our purposes (us the proles) is Abbie Hoffman’s Steal This Book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_This_Book
“Survive!”, “Fight!” and “Liberate!”
An excerpt from Chapter IV on how to lie while administering the liquid. Or in this case, how to lie after administering it!
“It is not essential to the story’s acceptance that he ever actually used either type of trap, but he must know how they are used. In other words, the details of the story must be correct although the story itself may be totally untrue. The vagaries of a super imagination will be accepted as fact as long as the teller of the tale does not stub his verbal toe and fall down because his details were incorrect. [as Boris has done]
As this invariably is true, a wise liar will use as few details as possible and be certain of the exactness of each detail he uses. An uncomplicated story, no matter how distant it may be from truth, will be acceptable provided it is told with conviction. Telling a story with conviction is only a matter of acting as if the story were gospel. The key word, of course, is acting, but it is easy to act as if one believes a story if he has thought the details so that he can tell it without hesitation or fumbling for a word. Here again, preparedness is essential.
The correct and incorrect use of details in telling an unfactual story is somewhat confusing. Whereas it is absolutely true that the great hazard in telling a lie is due to the use of details, it also is true that details can lend a considerable degree of plausibility to a story, always provided there are not so many as to make the story difficult to follow, but the details must either be factual or ones which can’t be controverted.
Of course, in doing a trick, it may not be at all necessary to deviate from the truth and it is best when this is the situation. It may be that all that need be said is to wonder aloud if it is going to rain—or stop raining as befits the situation. But by this time the reader must be quite familiar with the basic idea that whatever is said is said merely to keep the spectator’s attention away from what the performer is doing. As long as the reader understands the purpose and the method, he should never have difficulty with the words.”
Some thought-provoking background interest: http://thesaker.is/why-we-dont-respect-the-west-anymore-must-read/
bj.
The exact same scenario surrounds why Europe has seen a huge rise in immigrants from Afirca and the ME. European leaders backing aggressive US policies caused the huge swell of immigrants into Europe.
Has anyone mentioned the emergency services response? It’s my understanding that a DS was the individual that is reported to have responded to the triple nine call. In my experience that’s not normal practice. I’ve not heard mention of him being off-duty, which is something I initially considered, but of him being the police officer first to respond to the emergency call.
It’s a little thing in a big story but i think it has significance in so far as it highlights a discrepancy in approach by the attending emergency services.
If it’s inaccurate, take it to bits!
I’m russian. I heard the call and it’s very hard to understand most of part. Too much interruptions from both sides. It looks like both women know that the call was recorded and they’re trying to restrict each other not to spill the beans.
This seems interesting.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/981889821055569926
You’re all nuts. Of course it was Russia. Skripal has been identified as a possible Steele dossier source. This act was committed right before Manafort had to enter a plea. It was a message to him. And probably sloppy for that reason as well, so it wasn’t another missed Russian execution (like so many others in the UK).
You love Russia so much, go live there under Putin’s oppressive, disgusting regime. It’s mind-boggling that you’re even questioning the work of experts based off a couple of news stories you read and didn’t understand (because you’re not privy to all the evidence).
That convinces me, thanks for setting me straight, won’t do it again.
Seriously, gullibility comes in all shapes and forms. Oh, and ever heard of Occam’s Razor?
That’s interesting about him being Steele’s source. Have you sent it to Robert Meuller. You could have the final nail in Trump’s presidency. Have you got a safe house. You could try giving what you have to John Mccain. I’ve heard he likes passing things to the FBI. I am not sure how much of his faculties are intact nowadays though. From what i’ve heard every now and again wakes up thinking he is still in the Hanoi Hilton (Penthouse for celebrities). So you might want to be guarded if you have to wake him in his Senate office.
i guess he’s also a saddam apologist because he called the experts’ case for invading iraq baloney?
“It’s mind-boggling that you’re even questioning the work of experts based off a couple of news stories you read and didn’t understand (because you’re not privy to all the evidence).”
One answer to that pal, Iraqi/WMDs
Where the hell were you, Birch, you’ve solved the case in just few sentences. Have you a job with a Think Tank? If not, apply.
Failing this, find a busy road, go lie on it.
We know that the US government has been allocating literally hundreds of millions of dollars for Internet disinformation since about 2006.
It’s nice to know they are at last getting some value for that money. But you need to increase your work rate.
re “You’re all nuts. Of course it was Russia. Skripal has been identified as a possible Steele dossier source.
By your logic the person(s) who have a problem with the Steele dossier are not the Russians but the Clinton cabal who paid for that bit of fiction.
Wow Birch,
I hope one day in the future you will grow legs strong enough to hold your weight.
You can then get off your wobbly knees and begin to see what the rest of us can see.
‘How dare we challenge experts!!!’ How dare we not see Russia /Bad….Britain /Good!!!.
HOW dare we, how very dare we!
In murder enquiries, press and police focus on the victim – friends, hobbies etc – in order to find the killer. They don’t focus on the murder weapon, no lengthy explanations of a Glock 9. Yet here it is all about the murder weapon and nothing else!
Aim, to smear Russia. Yet in keeping with the cluelessness of this tory regime, they don’t even bother to do their homework. The absurd Johnson character [get yer hair cut you horrible little man!] looks more and more like Bily No-mates.
another angle?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5963729/sergei-skripal-family-ex-russian-spy-pets-survived-nerve-agent-attack/
The pets did it. They must have had the antidote. Did you know that the Russian’s trained dogs to run under tanks with bombs on their backs. They would put food under the tanks to train them, but the problem was when they deployed them the dogs turned around and ran under the Russian tanks instead of the German ones because they didn’t recognize the German tanks. Karma. The US did the same with bats to try and use them against Japanese ships but exactly the same case of Karma happened to them too.
Bats?
What size of a bat would you need to carry a bomb capable of sinking a jap battleship?
I think they opened them up and put little cylinder of nitro in them. If I remember correctly I think the bats didn’t like it and started scratching at it and blowing up before they went anywhere.
On a separate note I just found this website showing what a Nuclear blast would do at any address in the world.
https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast/
Last I heard, The Americans were training dolphins to swim into enemy ships and blow themselves/ships to smithereens.
Poor dolphins.
Sadly it’s the pets that have been the first deaths of the incident but not from poisoning. It appears when the police, or whoever the crime scene guardians are, checked and sealed the house they sealed the black persian cat and the two guinea pigs inside. Then with all the questions about what happened to the pets, coming from Viktoria and the embassy, they decided to go and get them for testing but they found the guinea pigs dead, (from dehydration through lack of water, NOT toxin), while the the cat malnourished and very distressed. Not withstanding it’s terrible state they took to Porton Down for testing but it was too distressed and in pain so a vet there decided to euthanise it.
Why is it that RT and Sputnik are completely silent about the phone call that Craig mentions in his post? They just report on the police statement allegedly written or dictated by Yulia, but not a single word about that very important telephone conversation. Why on earth would RT and Sputnik give credence to the Metropolitan Police and remain mute on an actual phone call between Yulia and her cousin? The British media are already using words like “the alleged Yulia” and so on! Is the phone call a fake? I hope not, but then why not putting it all over RT’s website? I am confused
That’s because, like true Russian women as we just learned, they are probably still talking….
They’re not silent – in fact the phone call is extenaively covered on RT’s frontline piece about Yulia’s statement that you just referred to:
https://www.rt.com/uk/423287-yulia-skripal-disorientating-police/
It’s just they don’t have a separate piece on it yet. Probably getting their sh!t together as we speak.
I see, but it still looks odd to me that they privilege the very suspicious police statement over Yulia’s own words, spoken live on the telephone. I hope this story is further developed.
In the old days, spook stuff was done in the shadows. You’d read ‘UK expels 12 Soviet diplomats’ and it was the first you heard of it.
It shows the contempt the tories have for the public that they bloviate openly with these lies, assuming that people who are stupid enough to vote for brexit are stupid enough to believe anything.
can I just correct you – “people who are stupid enough to vote for conservatives are stupid enough to believe anything”
Tory contempt for the population comes with the territory – let’s hope Theresa doesn’t meet with a fall in the North Wales hills as she happily enjoys a break from smearing Russia loudly singing the ‘Hills are alive with the sound of music’
A poster above mentioned Ken Alibek – another ex-Soviet scientist who, like Mirzayanow now, was used by the CIA to instigate WMD hysteria. Turned out it was quite a telling example!
Like Mirzayanov, Alibek claimed to have worked on developing Soviet WMDs – only this time biological weapons. Like Mirzayanov, he emigrated to USA in 1990’s and published a book on Soviet WMD research.
And now for the silver bullet: in 2003 Alibek claimed that “there is no doubt Saddam Hussein has WMDs”.. Ring a bell?
Here it is straight from the horse’s mouth – Washington Post no less:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/03/special/world/sp_iraq_alibek033103.htm
Alibek is executive director of the George Mason University’s Center for Biodefense. He also authored “Biohazard,” the story of Russia’s darkest, deadliest and most closely guarded Cold War secret, was the mastermind behind the former Soviet Union’s offensive biological weapons program for two decades.
Wheaton, Md.: Is it right to assume that Saddam Hussein would have WMD and be using them on U.S. troops had it not been for our allies in Israel taking action in 1981?
Ken Alibek: There is no doubt in my mind that Hussein has WMD…
Ken Alibek: Again, what I would say in this case — we shouldn’t believe that WMD like chem and bioweapons would require big storage facilities. They can be stored or hidden using some small places, far away in the country. Iraq is a huge country, the size of France. Saddam trying to repay big support for many countries and may try to destroy some of the chemical and biological weapons. At the same time, if some people know about this. There is high suspicion that in N. Iraq some sites have already been discovered.
Palo Alto, Calif.: France and several other countries are still suggesting UN inspections as a means to uncover Saddam’s WMD, or prove that they are not there. The recent French proposal suggesting tripling the number of inspectors. What would it take to make inspections effective to this task? Is an inspections program, of any type, up to the task of finding all of Iraq’s chemical and bio weapons?
Ken Alibek: First of all, my personal opinion, I was in Russia when the U.S. was trying to inspect Soviet facilities. All inspectors will unsuccessful until Saddam’s son in law defected. Inspections, in one case — if a country has good will. Take France, you could put thousands of inspectors there and they wouldn’t discover anything if the country has no desire to tell the truth. All inspection regimes actually discredit themselves. It will only work to prove the country doesn’t do anything.
Alexandria, Va.: Whatever happened to Saddam’s famous “baby milk factory?”
Is it known that the “baby milk factory” which featured a hastily scrawled cardboard English sign to that effect was in fact a bio-weapons factory.
Ken Alibek: It’s pretty obvious. Saddam had many undercover facilities and he claimed that some of them were milk factories and some to produce single-cell proteins. It’s a usual way to cover up facilities. In this case, as soon as we start doing thorough searches in Iraq we’d find those same examples.
Not only he was claiming Iraq had WMDs, but also that any inspection regime would be worthless – I.e. promoting war as the only response.
It seems Mirzayanov and his Novichok are now being used in the same way – against Russia! Parallels with Iraq are growing ever thicker!
Also, France was the country having reservations, needed convincing…
So glad to find this site, authoritative blog and great British comments. Used to read the Guardian but hard to stomach it these days, but missed the Brit humor in the comments which I find in abundance here. We laugh because we don’t want to cry.
Craig said: “What is there about Yulia’s situation that makes her feel a meeting between her and her cousin will be prevented by the British government? And why would Yulia believe the British government will not give her cousin a visa in the circumstance of these extreme family illnesses?”
How about this for a tinfoil hat explanation… they are under police protection a.k.a witness protection so no one will be allowed to initiate contact with them!
It is in the context of a visa. Is entering the country, on a visa, ‘initiating contact’? I don’t think so.
If puting it on the door handle was the method used how did that contaminate so large a part of the surrounding areas it just does not make sense The government should have started their story with once upon a time
Once again proving real journalism is dead. The media now does nothing but republish government press releases and is happy to do so.