What is left of the government’s definitive identification of Russia as the culprit in the Salisbury attack? It is a simple truth that Russia is not the only state that could have made the nerve agent: dozens of them could. It could also have been made by many non-state actors.
Motorola sales agent Gary Aitkenhead – inexplicably since January, Chief Executive of Porton Down chemical weapons establishment – said in his Sky interview that “probably” only a state actor could create the nerve agent. That is to admit the possibility that a non state actor could. David Collum, Professor of Organo-Chemistry at Cornell University, infinitely more qualified than a Motorola salesman, has stated that his senior students could do it. Professor Collum tweeted me this morning.
The key point in his tweet is, of course “if asked”. The state and corporate media has not asked Prof. Collum nor any of the Professors of Organic Chemistry in the UK. There simply is no basic investigative journalism happening around this case.
So given that the weapon itself is not firm evidence it was Russia that did it, what is Boris Johnson’s evidence? It turns out that the British government’s evidence is no more than the technique of smearing nerve agent on the door handle. All of the UK media have been briefed by “security sources” that the UK has a copy of a secret Russian assassin training manual detailing how to put nerve agent on door handles, and that given the nerve agent was found on the Skripals door handle, this is the clinching evidence which convinced NATO allies of Russia’s guilt.
As the Daily Mirror reported in direct quotes of the “security source”
“It amounts to Russia’s tradecraft manual on applying poison to door handles. It’s the smoking gun. It is strong proof that in the last ten years Russia has researched methods to apply poisons, including by using door handles. The significant detail is that these were the facts that helped persuade allies it could only be Russia that did this.”
Precisely the same government briefing is published by the Daily Mail in a bigger splash here, and reflected in numerous other mainstream propaganda outlets.
Two questions arise. How credible is the British government’s possession of a Russian secret training manual for using novichok agents, and how credible is it that the Skripals were poisoned by their doorknob.
To take the second question first, I see major problems with the notion that the Skripals were poisoned by their doorknob.
The first is this. After what Dame Sally Davis, Chief Medical officer for England, called “rigorous scientific analysis” of the substance used on the Skripals, the government advised those who may have been in contact to wash their clothes and wipe surfaces with warm water and wet wipes. Suspect locations were hosed down by the fire brigade.
But if the substance was in a form that could be washed away, why was it placed on an external door knob? It was in point of fact raining heavily in Salisbury that day, and indeed had been for some time.
Can somebody explain to me the scenario in which two people both touch the exterior door handle in exiting and closing the door? And if it transferred from one to the other, why did it not also transfer to the doctor who gave extensive aid that brought her in close bodily contact, including with fluids?
The second problem is that the Novichok family of nerve agents are instant acting. There is no such thing as a delayed reaction nerve agent. Remember we have been specifically told by Theresa May that this nerve agent is up to ten times more powerful than VX, the Porton Down developed nerve agent that killed Kim’s brother in 15 minutes.
But if it was on the doorknob, the last contact they could possibly have had with the nerve agent was a full three hours before it took effect. Not only that, they were well enough to drive, to walk around a shopping centre, visit a pub, and then – and this is the truly unbelievable bit – their central nervous systems felt in such good fettle, and their digestive systems so in balance, they were able to sit down and eat a full restaurant meal. Only after all that were they – both at precisely the same time despite their substantially different weights – suddenly struck down by the nerve agent, which went from no effects at all, to deadly, on an alarm clock basis.
This narrative simply is not remotely credible. Nerve agents – above all “military grade nerve agents” – were designed as battlefield weapons. They do not leave opponents fighting fit for hours. There is no description in the scientific literature of a nerve agent having this extraordinary time bomb effect. Here another genuine Professor describes their fast action in Scientific American:
Unlike traditional poisons, nerve agents don’t need to be added to food and drink to be effective. They are quite volatile, colourless liquids (except VX, said to resemble engine oil). The concentration in the vapour at room temperature is lethal. The symptoms of poisoning come on quickly, and include chest tightening, difficulty in breathing, and very likely asphyxiation. Associated symptoms include vomiting and massive incontinence. Victims of the Tokyo subway attack were reported to be bringing up blood. Kim Jong-nam died in less than 20 minutes. Eventually, you die either through asphyxiation or cardiac arrest.
If the nerve agent was on the door handle and they touched it, the onset of these symptoms would have occurred before they reached the car. They would certainly have not felt like sitting down to a good lunch two hours later. And they would have been dead three weeks ago. We all pray that Sergei also recovers.
The second part of the extraordinarily happy coincidence of the nerve agent being on the door handle, and the British government having a Russian manual on applying nerve agent to door handles, is whether the manual is real. It strikes me this is improbable – it rings far too much of the kind of intel they had on Iraqi WMD. It also allegedly dates from the last ten years, so Putin’s Russia, not the period of chaos, and the FSB is a pretty tight organisation in this period. MI6 penetration is just not that good.
A key question is of course how long the UK has had this manual, and what was its provenance. Another key question is why Britain failed to produce it to the OPCW – and indeed why it does not publish it now, with any identifying marks of the particular copy excluded, given it has widely publicised its existence and possession of it. If Boris Johnson wants to be believed by us, publish the Russian manual.
We also have to consider whether the FSB really publishes its secret assassination techniques in a manual. I attended, as other senior FCO staff, a number of MI6 training courses. One on explosives handling was at Fort Monckton, not too far from Salisbury. One in a very nondescript London office block was on bugging techniques. I recall seeing rigs set up to drill minute holes in walls, turning very slowly indeed. Many hours to get through the wall but almost no noise or vibration. It was where I learnt the government can listen to you through activating the microphone in your mobile phone, even when your phone is switched off. I recall javelin like directional microphones suspended from ceilings to point at distant targets, and a listening device that worked through a beam of infra-red light, but the target could foil by closing the curtains.
The point is that there were of course no manuals for this stuff, no manuals for any other secret MI6 techniques, and these things are not lightly written down.
I would add to this explanation that I lost all faith in the police investigation when it was taken out of the hands of the local police force and given to the highly politicised Metropolitan Police anti-terror squad. I suspect the explanation of the remarkably convenient (but physically impossible) evidence of the door handle method that precisely fits the “Russian manual” may lie there.
These are some of the problems I have with the official account of events. Boris lied about the certainty of the provenance of the nerve agent, and his fall back evidence is at present highly unconvincing. None of which proves it was not the Russian state that was responsible. But there is no convincing proof that it was, and there are several other possibilities. Eventually the glaring problems with the official narrative might be resolved, but what is plain is that Johnson and May have been premature and grossly irresponsible.
I shall post this evening on Johnson’s final claim, that only the Russians had motive.
Update: I have just listened to the released alleged phone conversation between Yulia Skripal in Salisbury Hospital and her cousin Viktoria, which deepens the mystery further. I should say that in Russian the conversation sounds perfectly natural to me. My concern is after the 30 seconds mark where Viktoria tells Yulia she is applying for a British visa to come and see Yulia.
Yulia replies “nobody will give you a visa”. Viktoria then tells Yulia that if she is asked if she wants Viktoria to visit, she should say yes. Yulia’s reply to this is along the lines of “that will not happen in this situation”, meaning she would not be allowed by the British to see Viktoria. I apologise my Russian is very rusty for a Kremlinbot, and someone might give a better translation, but this key response from Yulia is missing from all the transcripts I have seen.
What is there about Yulia’s situation that makes her feel a meeting between her and her cousin will be prevented by the British government? And why would Yulia believe the British government will not give her cousin a visa in the circumstance of these extreme family illnesses?
Something has been bugging me since I watched the Aitkenhead interview, how he says the sites were “infected”, which they would be had a biological agent been used. It only occurred to me today a possible connection with the US Air Force collecting samples of Russian DNA-
https://off-guardian.org/2017/11/03/why-is-the-us-air-force-collecting-samples-of-russian-dna/
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Ethnic-Bomb-Feared-as-US-Air-Force-Confirms-Collection-of-Russian-DNA-20171102-0028.html
In which case it is plausible that this might have been a test of a new US bioweapon.
Interesting.
Does DS Bailey have Russian anscestry?
As a follow up-
Body Of Missing CDC Researcher Found In River
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-05/body-missing-cdc-researcher-found-river
He’s a mechanical engineer, you can’t expect him to know the difference between a biological infection and chemical contamination would you,
Yes I do know the difference and I’m an electronic engineer by training. He made an obvious categorical error, a lapsus linguae which might show where his thinking was at the time, at least that’s been my experience when I’ve heard others do similar.
“The alliance” is crumbling: http://www.daserste.de/information/politik-weltgeschehen/morgenmagazin/videos/gernot-erler-5-4-100.html
Would you please explain?. Not a german speaker.
If you use chrome and enable subtitles then use “translate” button on Chrome, that would translate it for you. But it’s now on Reuters: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britian-russia-germany/up-to-uk-to-prove-russia-was-behind-attack-on-spy-german-official-says-idUKKCN1HC193
I’d say that damaging the confidence that Britain’s European partners have in us is sufficient reason for Boris to resign.
But be careful… don’t mention the War!
How do we know if the conversation between Yulia and her cousin is genuine>
I very much doubt that the statement from Yulia via the Met would’ve come out had the conversation not been genuine. Now it’s but a damage limitation mode culminating in everything ending up “classified.”
You wouldn’t expect it to be in Russia’s Channel 1 unless it was genuine. Presumably the Russian authorities could check Viktoria had had a phone call. It may be that the call wasn’t quite as unexpected for Viktoria as it might sound, but it doesn’t follow from that that it wasn’t Yulia speaking.
I would say Russian intelligence did indeed tape that call and any others to the family Skripal.
Not to mention it would have been quite pointless to fake such a call, considering what has been said (and not said) by the speakers. No, this seems to be genuine.
On the other hand RT aren’t mentioning it…
It’s reported in MSM here, so why waste time, effort, and energy reporting the same? The conversation is mentioned in https://www.rt.com/uk/423287-yulia-skripal-disorientating-police/
I don’t doubt that it is genuine but I wonder about how it came to be recorded and who released it. I also wonder as to why Julia would be ‘warning’ her cousin not to visit. I interpret her saying ‘that won’t happen’ in response to her cousin’s intent to visit to mean that it won’t happen as a warning. A warning to her cousin? Could her cousin have been ‘got at’ by the Russian state? Does Julia think Russia is behind this? I don’t wholly accept that this is a warning as to the motives of the British government.
One must keep an open mind. I do not for one moment accept the narrative presented by the Tory Government. There are too many questionable issues but I also am not rushing into this thinking that she signalling that it is the British who wont allow the visit. Like many I am in the dark as to what is going on but I neither trust the Russian State and, sadly, I do not trust my own Government.
It may be that Yulia had a chance to borrow a phone from one of the staff when the guards were not around, hence the shortness of it.
The Russians may have arranged for all the phones of relatives to be hooked to recoders if Yulia were to call.
I assumed it meant that the Skripals are being held in purdah by the British authorities, perhaps because their condition is not what we have all been led to believe, and so Yulia knows that she won’t be allowed any visitors. I thought that was the obvious interpretation.
It was initially released on Russian TV (“Russia 24” channel, “60 minutes” TV show). They said on the show that Viktoria Skripal gave them this recording. They initially were careful not claim that this is a genuine conversation but on the evening show they had a call with Viktoria where she claims that the voice on the phone is no doubt Yulia’s. Viktoria also explained that she was advised to record all phone calls from unknown numbers.
This is not a British problem. This is a western democracy problem.
Our governments lie incessantly about everything.
They control the media (and they lie about it).
They spy on all our communication (and they lie about it)
They get us into wars in far off lands and they lie about and even set up the conditions for the wars
They are “printing money” because they can. (and they lie about the effect)
They are bringing in vast numbers of foreign people (and they lie about the reason)
They lie about the level of inflation and they lie about the unemployed rate and they lie and they lie and they lie ad infinitum
What do you do about such societies?
Stand up and act patriotic when they play the national anthem, or do you bide your time until it is time to rush the legislature and kill them all?
Bide your time. They will kill themselves. It’s happening today.
Yes you are indeed right and you interpret what is happening in front of us, without us really being consciously aware. The itemisation of your points is very effective in terms of making the reader see what is actually happening. A very sinister and malign situation…and to think these people are paid by us, supposedly to serve us!
The British people demand their right of habeas corpus in respect of Yulia Skripal.
Let her be seen. Let her be heard. Let her be free.
Crowd funding for Michael Mansfield to do it. Someone organise that, please.
It was three weeks after the incident of Skirpals found slumped on park bench that nerve agent on door knob was found and reported. It seems probable that this was created by secret services because of lack of evidence to support allegation of Russia being only source of nerve agent. I say this because isn’t this the type of discovery arising in initial investigations by specialists? A discovery that would come to light in first few days. It is difficult not to consider this is part of a fit up.
where the Met Police are concerned, anything is possible. Look at the lies concocted around the shooting of Jean-Charles de Menezes when they knew almost at once it was a terrible tragic mistake.
The Salisbury, Russia did it, WMD horror attack looks increasingly like an incredibly dumbly executed piece of fake news. as a prelude to war, one may fear. My own analysis is too long to post here, but for anyone interested, here’s a link.
NoviJoke: To Russia With Hate
From Craig’s piece:
“I would add to this explanation that I lost all faith in the police investigation when it was taken out of the hands of the local police force and given to the highly politicised Metropolitan Police anti-terror squad. I suspect the explanation of the remarkably convenient (but physically impossible) evidence of the door handle method that precisely fits the “Russian manual” may lie there.”
One most join the dots that the Metropolitain Police were running the fake Westminster and London Bridge “terror” Psychological Operations last year. As in, police dressing up as witnesses etc, and also as the fake terrorists themselves at the London Bridge scam.
Alarm bells rang when one saw one of the top beeks involved in the Skripal event. Same as last year’s “terror” scams. That is why the “Met” are handling this. It has been a scam from start to finish.
As many people as possible must be informed of the lies from the corrupt government, or we are living in very dangerous times, where the populace can be brain washed into war with Russia.
(To end on a brighter funny note, the BBC knew where the Skripals had been on 6th of March, reported on 6th of March by the BBC. The BBC must have developed a mind reading technique, as the Skripals were said to be, by the BBC incapacitated. Did Yulia or Sergei manage to babble out….”we were in the pub and Zizzi” whilst comatose?) It’s all a Psy Op. Shame on May and Johnson and every other media lackey who goes along with the lies. The BBC continues with the lie that a nerve agent was used. The populace are paying for lies.
She is being controlled, the statement she made to the media was certainly not produced by a native Russian. It was produced by the spin machine, she may have approved it but she certainly didn’t write it.
She may have been surprised by the call even though the authorities had recording in place that she may not have been been aware of and may have been done remotely.
No, this just stinks more by the hour… she wishes to not be visited by any family or friends?
“No, this just stinks more by the hour… she wishes to not be visited by any family or friends?”
It’s entirely plausible for at least two competing reasons: if he has been brainwashed that “Russia did it,” she might very well be apprehensive and suspicious of anyone, or if she feels like she and her father are hostage (of the situation, at the very least) she might not want to subject another person to the prospect of same (no matter how remote that possibility is).
Well done IM. That’s the way she sounded to me in Russian.
The way I see it is that her dad is bought and paid for and now she is bought and paid for. Just think how much it would be worth to the US/UK governments for her to blame Putin. It would be incalculable. So £10,20 even £50 mil and new identities would be pennies for the damage they could and I think will do to Russia’s relationships with EU countries.
The next bit is theoretical.
Everyone in their own countries think we aren’t capable of doing something like say for example: Say the intelligence services had weapons that once someone was infected they would need a drug to stay alive every day or week or month. They could have put a micro pacemaker or chip in her chest, or head and simply said if we press a button you are dead. Well I think our leaders are more than capable of it if the magnitude of the situation it is as big as it is now.
Why pay or do anything of the sort… “You see your father lying there on a ventilator? It’s a terrible thing how someone could get to both him and you so easily, and without leaving a trace, isn’t it? But here were are now… We’d hate if an electrical fault were to happen or there to be a malfunction. And if you really want to help him…”
Carrot and Stick works best.
I honestly have faith in the medical staff of NHS Salisbury. Not so much if “Specialised” people from Porton Down are “helping”
Who said anything about the genuine medical staff?
I find it interesting that because the Russians had a manual dictating how to smear nerve agents on doors that they are obviously the guilty party. Doesn’t anybody remember the 1997 remake of the Day of the Jackal? Bruce Willis quite prominently sprays a nerve agent on a car door handle, killing the bad guy instantly after contact with the handle. If I was an assassin it would be the obvious place to put it. You’d guarantee to get somebody that way. I open my door by unlocking it and pushing the door, I don’t use the handle. Also how did they know he didn’t wear gloves and wouldn’t therefore come into contact with the agent? I still don’t understand why the simple method of shooting them as they left home or sat on a park bench, with no witnesses, wasn’t used.
As CM said in this article, the likelihood that the Russians had any sort of such manual is exceptionally remote 😉
” I still don’t understand why the simple method of shooting them as they left home or sat on a park bench, with no witnesses, wasn’t used”. – Because then we couldn’t prove that Putin was responsible.
It wouldn’t ave given them the gift that keeps on giving. Gun deaths even in the UK are forgotten and go unattributed fairly quickly. Russian military grade nerve agent is worthy of Goebbels.
I actually copt that myself ..Sister/cousin kinda talked over her to end conversation …as I presume she knows she will get a visa….your right though,what’s the environment like and what way is she been briefed on the changing situation..
As a prominent government minister said,we have had enough of experts,why should we believe scientists,when we have thick as mince Boris to inform us
Excellent write-up on how Novichok was produced in the USA and how they together with the UK stifled all discussion of the matter at OPCW:
https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/04/01/update-to-briefing-note-doubts-about-novichoks/
An Aitkenhaid statement that has not raised much comment–to the effect that Porton Down’s job was (always only) to identify the substance and not to establish its origin. But were we correct in surmising that an analysis of the substance entailed the search for markers indicative of its origin? That all chemical substances–particularly production-scale chemical weapons–carry such markers? Of course, one would need a reference set of chemical fingerprints to compare them to. This may yet be produced, which would support the Porton Down CEO’s emphasis that the origin could not be confirmed **yet.** Not that I wish to support BoJo’s claims here–clearly false based on the available evidence–but the next play may be to try to pressure Russia into allowing the OPCW to re-inspect its facilities, a process that could be dragged out for a good long while. Can’t imagine, based on the organization’s recent form on this matter and in Syria, that the Russians would trust the OPCW sufficiently to allow this. Much hay could then be made of their refusal.
Obviously, being pressured by the gov not to spill the beans and after being questioned for the THIRD time by the soft interviewer about an EXPLICIT (AFFIRMATIVE/NEGATIVE) answer about the origin of the allegedly used nerve agent, he used *yet* to preserve his job.
Is Karen Pierce, the poshboy regime’s ambassador to the UN, div?
According to the Daily Mosley, she “fears Russia called a meeting of the U.N. Security Council to discuss the poisoning of an ex-spy in England to show ‘contempt’ for international institutions such as the U.N.” Er yeah, that must be it. And she also “has a bit of a fear’ that Moscow is trying ‘to build a narrative’ for why it won’t accept the forthcoming findings from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons on the nerve agent that sickened Sergei Skripal and his daughter.”
in short, those dreadful foreign johnnies have got their shit together. The bastards!
The same UN that was co-opted two weeks ago when it went totally SILENT on the US expulsion of 11 or 12 UN diplomats, over whom they have no jurisdiction at all.
Believe me, the day is near when we will hear the first use of the word ‘Coalition‘ from these gentle men and gentle women.
@bj – It’s remarkable that that has hardly been mentioned in the western media after the first reports. I recall when the UN General Assembly had invited Yasser Arafat to address them in New York. The US said they’d stop him, which was totally unlawful because, as you say, they have no jurisdiction. But they said they’d do it anyway. So the General Assembly, on a motion supported by almost every country in the world, reconvened in Switzerland to hear what Arafat had to say. I don’t recall the details, but perhaps the US voted against, I__ael abstained, and every other country voted in favour, something like that. Even Britain called the US action unlawful. This time, it’s also unlawful and there’s fuck all.
ameristan is already creating a “coalition” to place similar “trade sanctions” on China to match the ameristani proposed, modified and awaiting a final decision at some stage in the future, if China fails to “knee bend” to the empire and shown worldwide on TV, trade sanctions.
The cuurent ameristan bully boy, is off to South America next week to “talk politely” to whoever will listen and try to snatch them from under China and Russia’s noses.
Trump Is Building An Army Of Nations In Trade War Against China
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-05/trump-building-army-nations-trade-war-against-china
Putin has weaponized the truth. From now on, the truth is our enemy.
Thanks for another entertaining romp through the absurdities of this case. I alternate between wry amusement at the ineptitude of our political representatives (they can’t even lie effectively now) and despair (at the almost total lack of skepticism expressed in the “news” media). Oy.
It’d be interesting to know how the blood samples were collected and once collected, would they have been safe from manipulation. It really doesn’t seem at all as if Novichok or a similar agent was used. So how is the UK government going to stand up to things if some other totally different poison was used unless somewhere along the line the blood samples were sabotaged?
Yes, Ruth. Good questions, and would the delay in taking those blood samples have contributed to any loss of trace data available for analysis?
Conversely, would there be any compounds that could be injected or placed in the Skripals’ food that might affect the blood-test results?
I have to admit that the sheer incoherence of the British messaging suggest that Bojo and the Tin Lady have jumped onto a bandwagon opportunistically, advised to do so perhaps by manipulators anxious to cover for a friendly if less than fully competent actor (ruling out MI-6, CIA and Israel, but not Ukraine or the Steele-dossier crowd).
Allegedly, the external OPCW investigation team, very soon after the UK’s Judges legal ruling was issued, themselves took blood samples, from victims, split all samples into two bundles and handed one bundle to the UK. The OPCW samples were then delivered to two unidentified testing and analysis labs.
The two labs working individually have enough samples to identify the type of poison used. The results will be returned to the OPCW team, the report will include the two labs results and an OPCW conclusion. This procedure confirms a double blind result and OPCW guarantee of the transfer/conveyance security.
One presumes both testing labs and PD have a stock of CW samples to compare their analytical results against with certainty. That suggests that there are at least three labs, excluding Russia that have a stock of CW to enable positive identification. As there appears to be 20+ labs worldwide, including Russia and UK, the source could come from at least that number of presumably sanctioned stores of CW samples, anywhere in the world. That doesn’t include any well trained lab students with the named equipment, described procedures, named base chemicals, from the named suppliers listed in the Iranian published study.
Whether that OPCW conclusive lab report will be available to the public is unclear. Whether the samples will be available to Russian under any challenge through the OPCW, is also unclear.
There are some documents on the OPCW site from the main man, available to view and download. If you can find them, it’s not designed for ease of use.
While we’re at it, a question for those who have read the relevant OPCW / CWC rules and protocols–where does it say that the proceeds of the OPCW investigation become the exclusive property of the accusing party, who is free to dispose of it in any fashion that their good will dictates?
And what if Russia were to lodge a formal accusation that one of its citizens was attacked by what may be a chemical weapon by UK intelligence on British soil? On what basis in protocol would Britain’s complaint be investigated and Russia’s set aside?
Don’t be daft; you’re talking rules and regulations. We’re in ‘Anything Goes’-territory here. Just have fun shooting holes in the other party’s fairy tales.
You’ve really done some sterling work here, Craig. Despite our differences on some issues, I’ve always thought very highly of you, as an individual bristling with integrity and honour, in world sadly devoid of such qualities. What I find worse than this absurd government narrative about events in Salisbury, is the reaction of the UK media, which has reached new, scandalous, lows. Why have they, considering their vast resources, left so much of the ‘investigative journalism’ – to you, so much of the questioning – to you, so much of the thinking – to you?
Instead, they’ve acted like they are just another government department; the Ministry of Propaganda. The uniformity and conformity has been astonishing, even now when the entire narrative is unravelling. I don’t think there’s been a single critical article about this affair anywhere. Not a single newspaper questions Downing Streets version of events, the dangerous wartime hysteria and chilling rhetoric.
We’re supposed to be living in a democracy with a free and vibrant press that’s independent and relishes holding politicians to account and has a vital role to play in the democratic process. Increasingly and especially now, that all sounds like propaganda, and it looks more like we’re living under a form of totalitarian dictatorship, with the media under state control and complicit in undermining not just the rule of law, but what’s left of liberal democracy and rationality itself.
Absolutely right! Bravo Craig Murray for your integrity, insights and intellectual grittiness.
Your three paragraphs say it all, MichaelF, an excellent summing up, it should appear on front pages of all MSM papers, but won’t. Top marks.
Forgive me for asking some stupid questions:
Did Skripal keep his car in his garage? If so, would it have been necessary for him to exit his front door (and poison himself and daughter) rather than entering the garage directly from the house?
Stop being so damned sensible… 🙂
“Stop being so damned sensible”
I’m not being sensible, simply asking a question out of ignorance. I remember not so long ago that such things as mixing faucets were a novelty in the UK, so I was thinking perhaps you haven’t yet discovered the convenience of direct entry to the garage.
To tell you the truth Madeira garages in the UK aren’t really for keeping cars in in practice, in theory they are but after a while people can’t be bothered going out to put the car into it every night so the car sits on the drive and the garage fills up with cardboard boxes of things you don’t want but don’t want to throw away, fridges that don’t work,lawn mowers and chairs with wobbly legs.
“cardboard boxes of things you don’t want but don’t want to throw away, fridges that don’t work,lawn mowers and chairs with wobbly legs.”
…which end up being acquired by the –these days all too trendy looking– Salvage Hunters, and sold, after a bit of touch up, for a hefty profit, to the generous British public.
The garage in question appears to have been converted into a lab, full of animals, to test ones experiments on. There are or were two windows and a brick wall where the up and over door would normally been.
Or does the normally single occupant, the male victim of poison, have other uses for the hamsters/gerbils/……….?
Excellent animals to house, feed, dispose of and easily available at PetsRus, if they are still around.
Please don’t complicate things. They don’t have a “garage” chapter in the Russian assassination manual.
Good question, and another thing to think about is: Since this was such a high profile case, surely there must have been a few visitors at Mr Skirpal’s house, to speak to anyone who might be at his home?
wouldn’t the police
have tried his door to see if they could find clues as to what had contaminated the Skirpal’s, so that they could find an antidote?
Wouldn’t some journalists be milling around outside his home hoping to speak to any relatives/friends?
If the police were to arrest a thief and he gave such a poorly constructed explanation of how events unfolded leading up to and from a major crime, as the Tories have about this case, they’d have him in court in no time and he’d be laughed out of court and straight into prison for talking crap.
This whole saga is like a re-run of the 2002 Wood Green Ricin investigation – the scaremongering by the government with the connivance of the media and the non-corroboration by DSTL of the official narrative (although the government kept secret for 2 years, the fact that DSTL had told them there was no Ricin). An absolutely disgraceful episode in history which caused the death of a police officer and the stabbing of two of his colleagues and should have seen David Blunkett prosecuted for Contempt of Court.
http://www.thejusticegap.com/2015/05/the-ricin-terror-plot-that-never-was/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/14/alqaida.terrorism
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/apr/14/iraq.iraq
A couple of them can Brexit UK or elect Trump even with their eyes closed but then they require an “assassination manual” hard copy for a hit job:
FSB & SVR Approved Technique for Delivering Poisonous Nerve Agents in Door Knobs:
1. Find the door knob.
2. Apply.
Now watching Channel 4 HD, the respected Channel 4 News, live from East London (police cuts)
it is 21 minutes in to the respected news program, on this “low-news day”, no considered analysis of Salisbury updates yet
Now started, War of Words, from Arsenal Stadium, UN Sec Council going in to session, Alexander Litvinenko mentioned at length, Polonium, Polonium, Football, Met statement sounded rather British, Phone call in Russian – unconfirmed, C4 says it is probably authentic because of the sudden statement released by the Met. Suspects on the Soviet sofa. Russian ambassador to UK was given 20 seconds, Brit Amb to Sec council was given 20 secs too, the situation is spinning (*emphasised by C4 journo) out of any governments control.
(*) SPIN: Propaganda; In public relations and politics, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing a biased interpretation of an event or campaigning to persuade public opinion in favour or against some organisation or public figure. While traditional public relations and advertising may also rely on altering the presentation of the facts, “spin” often implies the use of disingenuous, deceptive, and highly manipulative tactics.
Channel four blaming everyone!
‘ the respected Channel 4 News ‘? Respected by who??
True, well it’s better than the BBC News, which I’ve only watched for amusement recently…
I do check French, Italian, Turkish, Arabic, and the Russian, Belarus & Ukrainian Tv too; 5-sat dishes is a bit better than the Virgin Media broadband either Sky or BBC news choices
C4 hinting at “Spin” is probably all that they can get away with in the current climate of an apoplectic home office
How is it better than BBC? I recall watching Lindsey Hilsum on C4 News in Ukraine gesturing at empty fields telling us there were “Russians” over there, sure, invisible, Ninja Russians that can’t be spotted by the mark one human eyeball, satellites or thermal imaging, they are not worthy of any respect, and that was years ago. Now we have the likes of Kathy Newman attempting a ham fisted character assassination on Jordan Peterson, the contents of a septic tank is more worthy that that shower.
”The” same Kathy Newman who had to apologize for lying about her ”experience” after entering a Mosque a few years back? A case of in-sighting Islamophobia? That Kathy Newman?
Channel 4 is as deep in the stink as the rest of the sewer rats, particularly when the nationalistic flag waving starts.
” I recall watching Lindsey Hilsum on C4 News in Ukraine gesturing at empty fields telling us there were “Russians” over there…”
Yeah, in Russia. Surprising…
if it is Matt Frei, who did their despatches special on it last week, he is their Europe editor. He is a very experienced and respected journalist and no one’s patsy. He is I think originally German , – so not part of the British establishment.
Any goals yet?
good analysis here, not that much spin, yet
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/04/05/arsenal-vs-cska-moscow-europa-league-quarter-final-first-leg/
The government narrative was not credible from day one. It is a lot less credible now! Says it all I think.
Two articles from http://www.thecanary.co going into the BBC’s propaganda on behalf of the gov’t:
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/04/05/last-nights-edition-of-bbc-newsnight-was-nothing-short-of-state-propaganda/
https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/04/05/boris-johnson-will-be-grateful-bbc-news-edited-that-video-of-him-lying-about-russia/
Excepts:
“This wilful misrepresentation of the Skripal case is beyond bad journalism. It’s not any kind of journalism at all. It is propaganda, designed to pressure people into blind acceptance of the UK government’s official narrative, regardless of its authenticity or the ramifications of such uncritical obedience. ”
“But the BBC‘s coverage of the story seems to amount to government propaganda from our public service broadcaster. The edit completely changed the impression the BBC gave to its huge audience. We cannot let them get away with it.”
I am grateful for those websites, bloggers, and those commenting here who analyse the MSM output, as watching Newsnight e.g., is out of the question for me as it raises my blood pressure too much…
Highly politicised Met ant-terror squad, indeed.
Might be a dead end, but remember who was in charge of the assassination of Jean Charles De Menezes, and who is now in charge of the Met.
Coincidence? Or someone under the control of others?
Yep and that sums up the State of Britain – rather than a dishonerable discharge she gets promoted
What a load of old bollox it all is.
Cute little bunnies in many photos.
Double the rabbit hole indeed.
It is on yahoo that Yulia is not taking up any Russian consular assistance.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yulia-skripal-not-taken-russian-offer-assistance-uk-144459235.html
Bought and paid for.
Well, in their customary convoluted way the FCO says that uo to now Yulia has not said if she wants consular assistance or not. She has not refused such assistance. Let us hope that she and her father are soon able to get out of hospital and talk freely to the media, both British and Russian.
There is no discretion under the bilateral Consular Convention of 1968: UK is OBLIGED to allow consular access to a Russian citizen. Unlike the Vienna Convention, the person’s wishes don’t come into play: obligation is owed directly to the other State Party.
I saw that before as well but there could be the argument which I doubt has been tested that it was signed under the Soviet Union and doesn’t apply to relations between the UK and The Russian federation. I know Russia paid it’s Soviet debt but I image a British judge would find it easy to rule against it if it was taken to the courts. Maybe that was why Russia didn’t push it.
I looked it up, all Soviet treaties apply to Russia because it is the continuator state to the USSR.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_states#Soviet_Union
It was also USSR – not the Russian Federation – which entered the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, which is expressly recognized by UK as applying to Russia (this was confirmed even in the London Court decision on the Skripal case).
FCO is obviously obfuscating and downplaying the bilateral Convention because it is much less beneficial to the receiving state.
Here it is:
Article 36
(1) (a) A consular officer shall be entitled within the consular district to communicate with, interview and advise a national of the sending State and may render him every assistance including, where necessary, arranging for aid and advice in legal matters.
SHALL BE ENTITLED, Boris, not “may be permitted if the national so wishes”!
http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/1968/TS0092.pdf
FCO seems to pretend this document doesn’t even exist, even through it’s right there on their website, signed by the Principal State Secretary on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen! Is “International law” worth anything these days? Is there even basic decency among these so-called diplomats?
Maybe the cousin called from the British embassy, from a scrambled (encrypted) phone, same thing on the other end. And that’s why the Russian’s are in a bind: release and/or acknowledge this here now transcript —whereby letting the Brits know they can descramble their comms!— or letting this transcript (and any future ones, e.g. by the father) stand uncontested.
Apologies guest if this has been said before
The poison on the door.
– infected 3 people, the third at a different time,
The Skripals if this to be believed touched the door at the same time – to fall ill at the same time.
– then met various people touching tables and cutlery and glasses in the restaurant and the pub – no one else’s was affected.