“Comrade Putin, we have successfully stockpiled novichoks in secret for ten years, and kept them hidden from the OPCW inspectors. We have also trained our agents in secret novichok assassination techniques. The programme has cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but now we are ready. Naturally, the first time we use it we will expose our secret and suffer massive international blowback. So who should be our first target? The head of a foreign intelligence agency? A leading jihadist rebel in Syria? A key nuclear scientist? Even a Head of State?”
“No, Tovarich. There is this old retired guy I know living in Salisbury. We released him from jail years ago…”
“With respect Comrade Putin, are you sure he is the most important target to reveal a programme we have put so much resource into for ten years?”
“Yes. I sit here every day and I cannot concentrate on the affairs of Russia or the World as all the time am thinking of Sergei Skripal. I should never have let him out of jail to spend his life buying lottery tickets and eating in Zizzis. But you must make absolutely certain to kill him.”
“Don’t worry Comrade Putin, we have been training in secret novichok assassination techniques for ten years. We even have an detailed manual explaining our methods. We will spread the novichok on his outside door handle (fiendish laugh).”
“Are you sure comrade? Is there not a danger it will wash off or get diluted?”
“No Comrade Putin, it never rains in England.”
That is, genuinely, in every detail the official British government version of what happened in Salisbury, including the ten year programme and the secret assassination manual.
Despite this story being one of the most improbably wild conspiracy theories in human history, it is those who express any doubt at all as to its veracity who are smeared as “conspiracy theorists” or even “traitors”.
All copyright on this article is waived. Feel free to use, translate and republish as you wish.
Please, somebody tell me that Veteranstoday.com article is Fake News.
I can’t find any corroborating material to indicate that British and US Special Forces have been captured in Eastern Ghouta, but even if only SOME of the allegations are based in fact, then this whole thing is about to get very significantly worse, very quickly
I no longer know what to trust, other than my visceral instinct not to trust anything at all about this fiasco
Ceterum censeo bullshit delenda est
You are absolutely right to be distrustful.
When an SAS team had been captured in Kunduz, Afhghan their sailor friends the SBS (far from the seaside) called in an US C130 Gunship Assault on the neighboring area as a distraction for their support and evac op.
It didn’t go well. The US spent several hours bombing a hospital thanks to Russian EW / GPS shifting ability.
This is a very long-winded interview but it is the best summary of the Russian and Chinese view of what ihas been going on by a Russian civilian Satanovsky. Satanovsky is not directly connected into the Russian establishment but he is exceptionally well informed. It is well worth listenning to: https://vimeo.com/263728681
It appears that the presence of US, British, French and Israeli advisers/instructors among the terrorist bombarding Damascus has been firmly established by the Chinese intelligence, some have been killed and some have been captured. The Skripal “poisoning” hoax has been created to gain the first-mover advantage in the information war and cover up.
The Russian Generals have publicly repeated several times that if US, British and French attack the Syrian Government, they will target the carriers/facilities which launched the attack. I do not think that Putin can avoid responding any more because of the World Cup or for any other reason. One Western CW false-flag per day will not change the reality of the current pre-WW1 situation: attack and be attacked back.
Reports of Syria under missile and jet attack–jets from Israel, missiles from US warships in Mediterranean. Target appears to be T-4 base in Homs, which has been used by Russian forces. This would be one way to test Russia’s resolve to strike back.
Politically, it is much harder to strike back Israel than US. It is my understanding that US was not involved as claimed, but it is too early to know for sure.
How does the saying go
Assume Nothing. Believe Nobody. Check Everything.
It has to be answered how A-234 was found in blood and residue tests.
Why was the chemical warfare exercise “exercise Toxic Dagger” moved from April last year to Feb 20th (3 weeks duration) this year.
No,the right question should be :
Are the bloodtests results came from Salisbury hospital or from Porton Down and if from Porton Down does they came from the “victims” or from commando soldiers in exercise toxic dagger.
Sergei Skripal is not a former KGB agent.
First off the KGB went down in late December 1991 with the rest of the Soviet Union. Secondly he was a staff member of the GRU, not KBB.
(Russian: Гла́вное разве́дывательное управле́ние, tr. Glavnoye razvedyvatel’noye upravleniye,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Intelligence_Directorate
ha ha ha!
I thought the interview a little dull, sorry. No fault of Craig though, it just seemed that, well, the interviewer was not exactly an expert in the subject at hand, nor did she really wish to be there. You do get the feeling they’d all rather be interviewing important people – like Beyonce, or Peter Mandelson. Still props for trying. Being continually insulted by people who, with the best will in the world, aren’t as smart as you has to be a little wearying.
Personally, I find this debacle a useful one. Any journalist, whether from the left or right, who swallows this baloney is now suspect, forever. We have our own operation Mockingbird, too. George Monbiot – that’s you. Believing what is patently false, and what’s worse smearing those who see the truth – pure Soviet era indoctrination. I begin to wonder whose really running the show in the UK. Soros?
I wonder if we’ll end up boycotting the World Cup. Quite serious. Scotland has already boycotted, of course!
As you may not heave heard yet — the World Cup has been advanced to this very April, instead of June.
You are about to witness the kickoff any day now.
As for myself: between should Team Russia take one more unfair tackle or should said Team pre-empt by scoring the first goal, I opt for the latter.
Out of compassion, and out of revulsion.
A chemical warfare program should not be confused with keeping a few chemicals on the top shelf for use in assassinations, even if those chemicals were originally developed for war. It is largely an abuse of the system that the OPCW was even called in. The purpose of the OPCW is to prevent nations stock piling these chemicals in vast quantities (that literally take years to even destroy) which might then be dropped on large numbers of civilians in the event of war.
A chemical warfare program costs 100 of millions because it takes factories and warehouses and numerous people. Keeping a few jars of nerve agent in some lab probably costs next to nothing, beyond the wages of a few scientists. Just as Britain employs a few scientists to be able to effectively counter a chemical attack, Russia and many other states probably do the same (and justifiably so). What do you think these people are doing 10am-4pm when they are not drinking coffee, playing tetris or dealing with the occasional aftermath of a chemical attack? – most likely keeping up their skills, mixing up small quantities of obnoxious stuff and antidotes to test on rats. When done, they can either tip the extras down the drain, dispose of it some other way, put it on a shelf or donate it to the FSB / anybody willing to supplement their salary. If not to dispose of dead rats, why does Porton Down have an incinerator?
It was the UK which to all intents and purposes called this an act of war by the Russian state. At the point they accused a state actor, rather than treating this as a crime, it became a matter for the OPCW.
I’m guessing that the mainstream media have been reading this blog and its comments and wonder if they’re using it to write their own ‘debunking’ stories.
The ‘smart’ Novichok with a built in delay of 4 hours looks like a direct reply to the questions of how the poor Skripals both became ill at the same time, approx. 4 hours after leaving their doorknob.
I’ll try leaving some bait here and see if we get some more answers:
– I’m actually genuinely curious about this one and not sure what it means, but why was Yulia (and her brother before his untimely death), able to move so freely between Russia and England. You would have thought that it would be in neither country’s interests for the children of somone like Sergei Skripal to be able to potentially pass secrets in one direction or the other. It would not be beyonds the realms of possibility for the children to follow in their father’s footsteps, or for him to continue his ‘work’ via them. It was obviously easier for them to get a visa than their cousin Viktoria.
– Why did Sergei Skripal pick Salisbury to settle? It seems a bit of a co-incidence that he ended up so close to a military facility. It is/was also the home of his former minder Pablo Miller which could possibly explain it – ‘hey Pablo, I’m coming to live in England, where would you recommend?’ ‘Well Salisbury’s pretty nice, why don’t you settle there. We could meet up every now and then, just like old times’. I’ve possibly answered my own question here, perhaps it was so his former minder could keep tabs on him.
– What was the cat doing when the house was being searched? I’ve never owned a cat, but I would imagine it would have been meowing to be fed. The Sun reported on 16th March that it and the guinea pigs were taken for ‘assessment’ (I think that information came from the neighbours) but it doesn’t say when they were taken out of the house. Was there a cat flap, or was it a house cat? Did it follow them round, and if so did they just ignore it? Would it not have been removed straight away in case it disturbed the evidence, or accidentally poisoned itself on the doorknob?
– What about the guinea pigs. They were in a pretty large cage so would have been hard to miss. Did the people searching the house not think to remove them straight away? As evidence more than anything because they could potentially have traces of the nerve agent, or at least it would have ruled out its presence in whatever room they were in. It would be a pretty shoddy investigation if they weren’t included in a detailed search of the house. As living beings they would have provided unique clues as to whether or not the nerve agent had been in the house.
– How did the perpetrator ‘smear’ the nerve agent on the doorknob but not get any on themselves or anything else? Did they need a hazmat suit? Or a pair of gloves. But then how would you remove the suit or gloves and dispose them without getting the agent on yourself or someone else? Or did they have some magical implement that deposited the agent without leaving even a pin head droplet behind?
– What happened to the couple in the CCTV pictures? Did they identify them and decide they were innocent bystanders? In normal circumstances, that would have been announced in the press.
– Why have there been no ‘police are appealing for witnesses’ in the media? And no police hotline to call if you saw anything suspicious? There doesn’t appear to be any attempt to find the actual person(s) who administered the nerve agent. No possible descriptions, no CCTV, no timelines asking ‘were you walking in the area at the time’, ‘even if you think it’s nothing, it may be important so please do call our hotline’. Surely that’s the smoking gun they want. If they catch the person(s), they’d be able to instantly link them to Russia (and most likely Putin himself) since they already know Russia is guilty, job done 🙂 Perhaps a Crimewatch appeal would help…..
I could go on……
… and what about the other cat that apparently escaped? Maybe that cat was the Putin’s agent that smeared some “stuff” all over the door handle?
Here’s the statement issued April 6, 2018 by The Vets in Salisbury:
PUBLIC STATEMENT
As you’ve probably heard in the public domain, Mr Skripal is one of our clients. Today, the government has revealed two guinea pigs belonging to Mr Skripal died and his cat was put down after the unfortunate nerve agent attack on Mr Skripal.
We contacted the police straightaway upon hearing the news that Mr Skripal had been admitted to hospital, and a number of times afterwards, to make them aware of Mr Skripal’s pets and their needs.
We contacted Porton Down – in case the animals may have been taken into quarantine. We also offered to take care of Mr Skripal’s pets in his absence. We were never contacted by the police or Porton Down in return regarding Mr Skripal’s pets.
As you can appreciate, we’re bound by UK Data Protection Regulations (soon the GDPR). In addition, client confidentiality is of the utmost importance to us.
We cannot and will not give out any details about our clients or their animals – no matter who you are.
We are also not able to speculate on the cause of death of any of the animals – should this have occurred.
It’s a tragic situation and an incredibly difficult case, with high risks to the general public and all involved.
We trust that everyone that was involved was doing their compassionate best, in very challenging circumstances. However, we remain very sad at the suffering of Mr Skripal, his daughter Yulia and their beloved pets – to whom they were devoted.
We have no further information available than is available in the public domain.
Please do not call us, email us or turn up at our practice or homes in the hope to obtain further information. Many thanks!
The Vets Salisbury
The Vets’ post elicited this response from a local:
“I work near their house its taken till this week to ask us if we saw anything unusual that weekend …if it takes that long to question people they see every day then the animals weren’t even considered by them …it’s so good of you to offer help … bless poor pets :(”
https://www.facebook.com/thevetssalisbury/posts/1599229670125442
Even the vets must be questioning the official story!
“The ‘smart’ Novichok with a built in delay of 4 hours looks like a direct reply to the questions of how the poor Skripals both became ill at the same time, approx. 4 hours after leaving their doorknob.”
It is not just the ‘smart Novichok’ it’s rather the ‘Super Smart Novichok’ because it became totally inactive right after Skripals left their house that day and investigators were entering and exiting the house using the allegedly poisoned handle and police were posted right next to the allegedly poisoned handle, nobody cared all the way until they came out with the ‘door handle’ version of the alleged poisoning, amazing BS.
Mind you, we were seeing a very similarly comedy in regards to the ‘car vent system’ version of the alleged poisoning – all papers showed picture of police NOT even wearing a simple respirator working inside the Skripal’s car, and then few days later, voila, the ‘car vent system’ version of the alleged poisoning came out and … we are seeing the car covered by a plastic cover and police are all in hazmat suits.
The starving pets went unnoticed because nobody went inside the house to make even the slightest forensic analysis of the contents!
I have kept cats in the past and when they are even mildly hungry they become total pests. You can barely walk anywhere in a house without falling over them as they desperately seek to gain your attention so you feed them.
It is clear why the authorities wish to avoid investigating the case and don’t actually want to look for forensic facts. The official narrative has already been decided!
The house has been deliberately sealed from access to prevent investigation. This is precisely because the authorities don’t want any inconvenient elements of truth getting out and challenging their narrative.
I have to day that my three-year old granddaughter can smear jam on a door handle without the aid of a Russian Secret Service assassination manual. Perhaps she could move straight into a senior position in their organisation without all the bother of going to pre-school?
Has it ever been explained what happened next door to Zizzi’s on March 7? That afternoon, police, fire and ambulance services were called to Sarum House on Castle Road, the neighbouring building to Zizzi’s.
There are at least three videos online including this one from The Daily Mail:
“Woman who works beside Salisbury Zizzi’s escorted into ambulance
The woman who works in an office block next to the Zizzi’s restaurant in Salisbury where a Russia spy ate with his daughter, was hustled out by police and paramedics into a waiting ambulance.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1643414/Woman-works-Salisbury-Zizzis-escorted-ambulance.html
and a couple more vids posted by locals:
Incident in Salisbury: Sarum House next to Zizzi on Castle Street, Salisbury 07.03.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Tjx58FON4 – Sarum House vid posted by Simon Ward Photography (also used by SpireFM)
Sarum House Salisbury. Fire service arriving 7th March 2018 1.08pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJi_3S0ApJg – Sarum House – different angle posted by booke23
###
isreel sniper kill is not the issue
BREAKING Trump, Macron vow ‘strong, joint response’ to suspected Syria gas attack
“Massive Explosions” Heard Above Syria Amid Reports Of Fighter Jets Aistrikes; Pentagon Denies
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-08/massive-explosions-heard-above-syria-amid-reports-us-fighter-jets-cruise-missiles
I wish this was off-topic…
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-08/massive-explosions-heard-above-syria-amid-reports-us-fighter-jets-cruise-missiles
https://www.rt.com/news/423540-syria-homs-airbase-missiles/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43694588
Theyre all a bunch of fucking liars.
Thats just how it is.
Choose whom you believe from story to story is all.
I must admit only my theory fits ALL the facts and ALL the Lies.
1. It was a botched murder attack (using a related Novichok compund) by a criminal gang from the Caucasus ordered by Mr. G at the behest of Mrs V, the mother of Stepan Vikeev, boyfriend of Julia.
(If you don’t know who they are by now, please look at previous comments on this blog “Portonblimp Down Episode 2 – A Tale By Boris Johnson”)
2. The British knew this but framed Russia knowing full well that Russia would deny having been involved.
3. The British then used the provoked media storm to “frame the narrative” to enable them to attack Assad over a false flag chemical weapons attack in Syria
4, The actual mechanics of the murder attempt will either be revealed in the future or not.
5, My theory still stands whatever the mechanics are (door knob, spray in face, suitcase, etcetera)
6. My theory explains not only the British government statements and actions but also the Russian statements and actions
7. Finally, a big thanks to Craig Murray for hosting this incredibly insightful blog which has given us all a chance to analyse facts and sift through evidence and propaganda and arrive at conclusions while being bombarded by Russo-phobia and constantly changing stories by the mainstream media.
Your “theory” that you’re pushing so insistently is just another attempt to buoy the “Russia did it” agenda in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The only difference is that instead of blaming Putin directly for the attack, you’re putting the blame on Russia for “losing control” over Novichok, which was one of Theresa May’s initial accusations.
1. “Criminal gang from the Caucasus” is a deus ex machina nearly identical to the “Russian hit squad” story developed by MSM. There is no evidence that such a “gang” even exists, not to mention how its members managed to smuggle a chemical weapon into UK, use it to attack a British citizen, and then disappear without a trace. It also doesn’t explain why all victims of the so-called “most deadly chemical weapon” are still alive and getting better (while the pets that might have provided clues were put down and incinerated). Neither does it explain why this “gang” would attack their target on British soil rather than in Russia, with much less risk to themselves and their plan. Neither why would they elect to use a “calling card” murder method, “frame” Russia and thus enrage Putin himself, over something as insignificant as a mob hit on a private citizen.
In short, it has the same holes as the “official theory” and no new explanations to fill these holes.
2. If London wanted to frame Moscow, why wait for some “Caucasian gang” to put in action an extremely convoluted and unlikely assassination scheme, when they can do it all themselves with resources from Porton Down and under cover of Operation Toxic Dagger?
3. False flags in Syria would have to be prepared well before the “Caucasian gang” strike. Or are you implying that these pesky “Caucasians” also staged the Gouta attack?
4. So you have no idea of “the actual mechanics of murder”, but are still willing to believe that it was a “murder” (right, with zero dead and all involved recovering quickly).
5. Your theory doesn’t have a leg to stand on regardless of the “mechanics” of nonexistent “murder”.
6. Your theory does not explain Russia’s actions: if Moscow had reason to believe that a third party was responsible, would they lose the opportunity to shift the blame? Again like the MSM you’re proceeding from the assumption that Putin is an idiot, whereas he’s anything but.
7. Your story is one of these “constantly changing stories” designed to point the finger at Russia whatever the cost, so apologies if your thanks to Craig sounds a bit insincere.
Oh and of course there is no actual evidence that Novichok was even used in Salisbury, and plenty of evidence to the contrary (all three “victims” alive and recovering, extremely slack protection measures, policemen grabbing doorknob before it was allegedly discovered to be smeared by Novichok, no search for “perpetrators”, 4 hour “grace period” during which “victims” were cavorting in a bar & restaurant, etc.).
Do you have the chain of custody clear from the door knob to said scientists?
Even the chain of custody from a possible stock/lab, whatever to the perpeprator/applicant is highly in contention.
No actual evidence?
Apart from scientists at Porton Down, that is, and let’s see who’s right when OPCW Lab reports emerge in the near future.
BTW, which policemen grabbed the doorknob, apart from Bailey?
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the Skripals were “cavorting in a bar”?
Here is a link to some recent research into advances in toxicology and medical treatment of chemical warfare nerve agents:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3556041/
No actual evidence? Apart from scientists at Porton Down
Apart from their word on it, you mean. And even their word is somewhat ambiguous.
In the deposition to the London Court, presumably under oath, Porton Down said it was a “Novichok class nerve agent or closely related agent“, “nerve agent or related compound“.
In his interview to Sky Gary Aitkenhead, not under oath and highly likely pressured to make it look as good as possible for London, said “Novichok or of that family“.
So it seems not only they don’t know where the “compound” originated, but they’re even hedging their bets as to its precise nature.
and let’s see who’s right when OPCW Lab reports emerge in the near future.
What real trust can there be to OPCW that has already soiled its reputation with aiding the West in falsifying chemical attacks in Syria? The same OPCW that rejected deeper inquiries into Mirzayanov’s “novichok” in 2011 and 2013, most likely under U.S. pressure, as Wikileaks cables from State Department show? The same OPCW that oversaw Iran’s synthesis of “novichoks” in 2016, and declared Russia’s complete destruction of its chemical weapons stockpile in 2017? The same OPCW whose Director General was ousted by John Bolton after refusing to support the UK-USA ruse of “Iraq WMD”? In case anyone missed that last bit, here’s a link:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-threatened-opcw-director-general-we-know-where-your-kids-are/5635204
It is “highly likely” that OPCW will continue this trend and will not act overtly against the UK-USA narrative. They have already made the first steps toward compromising their investigation by rejecting demands for transparency.
But I see you, along with the good gents at the FCO, are already well prepared for that eventuality and intend to rely on OPCW to corroborate your failing conspiracy theories of a “Russian plot”, so as to pave the road for yet another conflict which is against the actual interests of all involved nations.
BTW, which policemen grabbed the doorknob, apart from Bailey?
Here are some photos taken by Sky shortly after the incident:
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/PUWXYzSCpJ4VXtmpeLU_SQ/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/DyPpD3w9T6e2CnTmm9k0_17856135-4.jpg
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/_XeJf76nNt0Eb59kLfDk8Q/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/kuz3hUbHTWGNl5wF4YPJ_17856135-2.jpg
The Skripals’ front door is clearly visible in the background. NONE of the policemen, paramedics, officials etc. have any kind of protection gear, and they are not wearing gloves. How do you suppose they were entering/exiting the building, grabbing the handle with their sleeves? And this was before the “door handle” version became official, so they shouldn’t have even known to beware the doorknob. There are also no decontamination facilities in sight. Yet none of these people were affected by this supposedly “most deadly nerve agent”, with the exception of the mysterious “Detective Bailey” who no less mysteriously “got better” (insert Monty Python and the Holy Grail reference here).
Here are some statements from officials at that time which don’t jibe with Theresa May’s claim that “over 130 people might have been affected”:
“Dame Sally Davies, chief medical officer for England, said there was a “low risk to the public” .”
“Mr Rowley described the incident as “awful” but there is no evidence of a “widespread health risk”. ”
Surely if there was a deadly nerve agent attack and the assassin(s) were still on the loose it would call for sterner protection measures and more alarms raised? Instead we have policemen and medics walking around the supposedly poisoned house without so much as a handkerchief, and the public basically told “there’s nothing to see here, move along” (insert Officer Barbrady reference here).
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the Skripals were “cavorting in a bar”?
It’s public knowledge that the Skripals visited The Mill pub before going to the Zizzi restaurant. Here’s a handy pic with their entire route:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5917009d0372af8f5ae73885e35b0690
As to whether they were “cavorting”, well, they seemed quite in good spirits when drinking at Zizzi’s later on:
https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/04/04/11/sergie1.jpg?w968h681
Here is a link to some recent research into advances in toxicology and medical treatment of chemical warfare nerve agents
Here is an excerpt from that “research”:
“It has been claimed that the toxicity of certain “Novichok” agents may exceed that of VX. The action mechanism is also dissimilar to the other NAs and thus conventional antidotes may be ineffective.”
Gary Aitkenhead said Porton Down didn’t have an antidote for Novichok. Britain didn’t ask Russia for an antidote. Yet all three purported “victims” of this “deadly nerve agent” are alive and well. What does that tell us?
But wait, here’s another excerpt:
“Medical and paramedical personnel who manage and assist to casualties either in the field, during transportation or in the hospital, must protect themselves from NAs contamination [105]. Eight staff who had taken apart in Matsumoto incident had mild symptoms of sarin poisoning [112]. Two important things for this purpose are applying personal protective equipment and decontamination of patients before entering a clinic or a ward [1]. Surgical or similar mask and gloves are not sufficient, and personnel should apply mask containing a charcoal filter, heavy rubber gloves and proper cloths. They should avoid skin contact with victims before decontamination”
But we haven’t seen such protection worn by police and first responders in Salisbury on Day One. Yet “according to officials, about two dozen first responders and medical staff came in contact with Skripal and his daughter after they fell violently ill but only Det.-Sgt. Nick Bailey became sick” (http://www.irishsun.com/news/256701418/uk-doubles-efforts-to-expose-russian-ex-spys-poisoning). Oh and of course according to Dr Steven Davies – Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust – “no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning” (http://www.moonofalabama.org/images6/salisburytimesletter.jpg) Shouldn’t we trust the British institutions, Billy?
Question remains: after all we’ve seen, including the Iraq WMD fiasco, should we blindly rush to judgment without a shred of actual evidence?
@Mark, Could you please limit your posts to discussing the facts? I looked at your photographs and there were no policemen touching doorknobs in any of them and no cavorting Skripals, just a picture of them sitting down to a meal. It seems you may be imagining these things. I think everyone on this forum, Mark, is well aware of their purported movements, the letter from Stephen Davies, the ongoing propaganda campaign by the British state and its media lackeys. A lot of the information you posted, I already posted myself on this blog and I’m sure we agree about most aspects of the affair.
Despite your rather feeble attempts to distort the facts and toss out red herrings, I would welcome further respectful and polite analysis of my claims (as you will see from my answers to your points further down on this page). Also, I’m sure contributors to this forum would welcome your own personal theory, if you actually have one, which I can assure you will not be mocked or ridiculed in any way if you summon up the courage to publish it.
Billy, your attack hawk who ran away from the Vietnam draft fired the head of the OPCW when it was still a very independent and unbiased body, but since the false flag attacks in Ghouta, when they ‘came round to western one sided investigative solutions, disregarding the antics of the whiter than white helmeted mercenaries, their judgement is highly questionable.
I expect that the OPCW will say as much as what they have been given, the political angle and the facts don’t come into it. Whatever material they have has been given to them by Porton down scientists and is allegedly from the Salisbury incident, but going by the crescendo of allegations and bad mouthing one can expect that nothing much will change unless the Skripals speak out.
They will have their own ideas of who might have wanted them dead and to say that they are being whisked away with new identity to warmer climes, never to be seen again, can also mean that they end up six foot down in a hot landfill site.
The OPCW should interview the victims and be concerned with their safeguarding, imho, as it stands we ‘ll have to take the words of those who have lied previously, not a great option.
@nevermind you need to trust the OPCW, that’s their job, to calmly investigate at independent labs and then publish their analysis. Just let the experts do their job and respect their results or disagree with them when they are published. No need to predict or poison the well. I agree with your other points, but not sure what you mean by the phrase “your attack hawk”. I had a falcon once but it was poisoned by a, oh never mind.
In the light of current events, all posters on Craig’s forum should be aware of this story:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9293620/BBC-News-uses-Iraq-photo-to-illustrate-Syrian-massacre.html
It originally appeared in the Daily Telegraph (and would probably be spiked nowadays). It explains how on the day after “Bashir Assad’s Houla Massacre” in Syria in 2012, the BBC published a photo purporting to show the bodies of hundreds of children awaiting burial following the “massacre”.
There is a screenshot of the BBC report. The photo had nothing to do with Houla, or Bashir Assad, or Syria at all. It had been taken 10 years earlier by a French photographer, in Iraq. When the BBC were caught with their pants down, they hastily removed the whole story, naturally without any apology or explanation.
It is a good example of the kind of lies that they are happy to foist on us in pursuit of their ‘narrative’.
It would be good to prepare a list of these “mistakes” by the BBC and publish it here
05.45 Radio 4 BBC on things that happened in earlier years on this day, If you want to know the real reaon Mrs May poisoned the Skripal famil a presenter using a rather old-fashioned , received-English voice like a WW2 commentary said:
” When 250 tanks rolled into Baghdad it was clear there had been a complete victory. one of the most iconic moments was when the 30 ft statue of Saddam Hussein was brought down , bringing to an end 25 years of brutal tyranny”
Nothing about Blair’s lies that enabled this filthy war; nothing about the 8 metre deep holes where previously buildings had been; nothing about the sectarian violence ignited by General Betrayus; nothing about 15 years of continuous and still ongoing war.
I swear by Allah I am never again going to listen to the BBC until this Zionist propagandist is demolished as a state broadcaster. Today they have hit new lows, new peaks of utter contempt for humanity. I will take my news, entertainment and opinion form RT.
There is I think..Truth.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132108640@N08/40620230804/in/dateposted-friend/
Off topic but related.
Is the Bosporus,the waterway ,the Black Sea and the Med, still closed to all shipping following Saturday’s crash of a cargo ship into an historic mansion( itself a copycat accident incident of another such accident)?There were earlier demonstrably fake reports on Fox of Turkey closing the straits to Russian shipping.
Just to put some context, on February 07/08, “coalition” forces attacked “Russian mercenaries” in Deir Ezzor, in the east side of the Euphrates. It was said in the West’s media that more than 200 Russians died. Of course, the Russian gov denied they were mercenaries and reduced the casualties to just a couple dozen Russian civilians, “free to be wherever they wanted”, you know, like tourists. Ten days later, on February 18, East Goutha, a front relatively quiet for 6 years and supposedly full of West’s Special Forces, is attacked in Operation Damascus Steel. Looks like reprisal for me.
So, probably, there were more than two dozen Russian casualties in Deir Ezzor and, more than sure, they were not just “civilians”, but the Russian Gov had no choice other than deny it, given that they were to the east of the tacit separation line.
In the same way, if there are UK/US Special Forces embedded with the head choppers / Damascus’ bombers in Douma, there is no way their governments will recognize it.
In this context, the Salisbury false flag which, by the way, occurred when everybody visualized that East Goutha was going to be defeated (March 04), matched with the diplomats expulsions plus Assad’s chemical weapons Deja vu make a lot of sense if you are desperate to negotiate to free your Special Forces and save your JAI savages. Just saying.
I think you are finally on to something there and the best thing about it is that it fits neatly in with my explanation
[ MOD: Caught in spam-filter ]
—
Billy, yours is not an explanation, is more of a diversionary tactic. Probably, learnt with one of the “Friends” of your Rage University (linked in your nick/name, http://www.rageuniversity.org/), where you are, at least, moderator, if not the founder and only content creator. I did my own research, as you suggested.
Some Friends of the Rage University, for example:
CANVAS, Centre for Applied Nonviolent Action and Strategies, with unknown funding sources but whose founder (Srđa Popović) previous creation, Otpor, was financed by Open Society, NED, NDI and all the usual suspects.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/cia-backed-color-revolutions/5611641
https://orientalreview.org/2014/01/09/canvas-the-belgrade-us-financed-training-group-behind-the-carefully-orchestrated-kiev-protests/
Albert Einstein Institution, founded by Gene Sharp, of Color Revolutions fame and, at the epicenter of the topic we are discussing: Syria.
https://www.channel4.com/news/gene-sharp-people-power-is-syrias-weapon
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/filmmakersonfilm/8841546/Gene-Sharp-How-to-Start-a-Revolution.html
Global Voices advox, funded by Open Society Foundation, Ford Foundation, Knight Foundation, MacArthur Foundation, Omidyar Network
So, not to say that you are guilty by association but, at least, it demonstrates poor judgement of what you consider “Friends”. Furthermore, those institutions DO HAVE a clear orientation, demonstrably anti-Russia and anti-any.government.that.doesn’t.align.with.the.West.
Having a better understanding of where your preferences are gives me a hint about why you want to divert the attention from a bad performed gov false flag and put something Russian on it.
I’m not surprised it was caught in a spam filter, just curious as to how it escaped into the light of day.
Instead of discussing the claims, you resort to two childish tactics, and have the cheek to say:
“So, not to say that you are guilty by association but……”
1. Association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another. Two types of association fallacies are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and to help you understand:
“Simon, Karl, Jared, and Brett are all friends of Josh, and they are all petty criminals. Jill is a friend of Josh; therefore, Jill is a petty criminal.”
Rage University has many friends, you forgot to mention anarchists, anarcho-syndicalists, left wing guerrilla groups, socialist groups, free education providers, anti-copyright resources, anarchist presses, Crimetinc, SOMO, etcetera , but instead just cherry pick a few linked organisations which publish useful learning resources for activists (which is what the web site is all about), and you do this to support your own twisted agenda. Pathetic!
http://www.rageuniversity.org/ragefriendslinks.htm
2. Ad hominem is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of their claims.
You really need to improve your grasp of logic and how to avoid fallacies before engaging in any rational discussion with your peers.
Don’t get so nervous, Billy, just because someone brought to light the unsavoury connections of the institution you have associated yourself with. No logical fallacy here, straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. As to the nature of the institution in question, let everyone make their own conclusions. Sapienti sat, as they say. But the way you get all hot & bothered about it sure is telling.
I have nothing to hide, despite personal attacks and bizarre accusations from certain members of this forum who hide behind the cloak of anonymity in order to launch insults and cheap slander.
All the organisations we work with or are in contact with are available for anyone to see at this link:
http://www.rageuniversity.org/ragefriendslinks.htm
Indeed, our aims are clear, simple and benevolent, and our only enemies are the mafia states who oppress us all:
“Rage University’s mission is to advance the tactics, tools and techniques of radical activists, empowering them to use information, direct action, media and communication to help communities and individuals to achieve social, environmental and political change, as well as to protect them from State Repression and Violence”
We are a small non-profit NGO devoted to providing practical guides to help activists in their struggle against State Repression in its many forms, (be it the Russian, British, Iranian, Israeli, Syrian, Chinese or North American State) as it clearly states on our website:
“Rage University will also further cooperate with other activist resource websites throughout the world to offer simple, clear and excellent instructional guides and manuals to fully to satisfy the needs and expectations of global and local activists.”
http://www.rageuniversity.org/RAGE_about.html
In November 2016 Russia totally obliterated a “secret” ISIS command center manned by Americans, Turks and Saudis between Latakia and the Turkish border with a Kalibr cruise military missile strike. The place was swarming with CIA and Pentagram advisors. Nobody survived.
The US attack that killed up to 10 Russian merc’s in Deir Ezzor is most likely a retaliation for that. Tit for tat. Again, when CIA sent sophisticated drones with bombs in 2 waves in the middle of the night at the Russian air base in Kmeimim some months ago, Russia not only shot them all down or neutralized some by electronic countermeasures, but they also instantly retaliated by bombing the base from which they were launched. Surely a number of yanks were present there as well.
BBC Radio 4 Today propaganda unit trailing an interview with a US General at 7:40 am who is going to say Trump needs to respond by bombing EVERY airfield in Syria.
Insane.
Yes, thanks for confirming my claim. Probably Trump declared that he was going to withdraw US forces from Syria in order to use it later as evidence that this was not a previously planned operation by the UK, USA and France.
US general who has clearly been watching too many Wild West movies.
The general was Dubya’s advisor on Afghanistan. That went well didn’t it! He comes from the Dr Strangelove School of Military Planning
Keane by name. Keen for more war.
– The US denies carrying out an air strike in Syria. UN Security Council prepares to discuss a suspected chemical weapons attack in Douma. General Jack Keane, former vice chief of staff of the US Army at 0750 #r4today –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09y6z53 link to the iPlayer.
The state broadcaster used to have the running order and long before that, transcripts of the programme. All gone of course so that we have difficulty in pinning them down and finding quotes and links.
The well-informed Russian blogger The Saker issues this advice to citizens of the world – stay and calm and do not get hysterical:
“EVERYBODY WAIT! DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!
We have no facts. Some reports say that the USA attacked, other that it was Israel or even France. The truth is that we won’t know for sure for at least 24 hours. Whoever attacked will present that as a huge success. Don’t believe it! The last time around it took several days to find out what really happened.
Also, at least so far, I hear about “5 cruise missiles”. If that is the truth, then this is a totally symbolic act, which is good. There might be much much more before dawn, but we have to wait and see. If the French or Israelis did it, that is also good news (more symbolic nonsense which both of these countries love to engage in).
[Sidebar: if the Americans go for a the real thing, we will see *hundreds* of missiles just in the first wave, so all this 5 (or 8) missiles stuff is very very good news indeed (at least compared to what it could be!]
I just got a report from Scott about the Russian social media exploding with all sorts of non-verified and freely interpreted info. This is bound to be reflected in the western social media really soon too. Read it, but don’t jump to conclusions!
https://thesaker.is/missile-strikes-on-syria-tonight-do-not-rush-to-conclusions-please-post-here-what-you-hear/
He is arguing that, just as the American cruise missile attack on a remote Syrian airbase a year ago, this attack was largely symbolic and everything after a few days went back to what passes these days as “normal.”
one of BBC Radio 4’s saner voices , when asked just now (07:20-ish) what might follow the TelAviv attacks on a sovereign neighbour, suggested that considering the USA generals’ (one of whom will be interviewed later by BBC) hawkish stance, that we might simply be looking at a world nuclear war. Thanks Lyse Doucet. (affiliation: honest, scrupulous, director of http://archive.is/8QdiA)
W E M I G H T S I M P L Y B E L O O K I N G A T A W O R L D N U C L E A R W A R
Toadies then moved on to Knife Crime, with nary a pause.
I beg to disagree about the presence of sane voices on the BBC.
Speaking about Syria at the time you mentioned was Lyse Doucet. She weeps crocodile tears for dead babies but she is a mouthpiece for war, being connected to RUSI (Royal United Services Institute) which is a nest of warmongers.
She has reported from all of the West’s war scenarios, Afghanistan, Iraq, Gaza..you name it, she’s been there. Occasionally in Washington and New York of course for the meet ups. A pretence of humanitarian concern.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09y6z53
Sorry Radar. I missed your irony. I didn’t open the link. :))
Actually M. , I think she know’s what’s up this time!,
there have been quite a few interviews with Lyse over the years where she has been cut-off whilst trying to explain something to head-office that they didnt want to know. Yes, Wikispooks have a page which mention her for the RUSI & other transatlantic extremist institutions. However, she’s so far to my listening the ONLY person who has mentioned on-air the possibility of a rapid escalation to the N of NBC/CBRN. The UK presstitutes are just trying to get Teresa to win the next council elections, then the next general election.
This is escalating rather quickly, and common sense suggests that whilst we as individuals can do absolutely nothing to influence events – indeed, we almost certainly have only a partial understanding of what is going on – it would be prudent to assume that even a very slight miscalculation by one of the players in this high-stakes game could lead to truly catastrophic consequence, and to plan accordingly
1. We have been here before: WMD in Iraq, Chemical weapons in Syria: given the litany of previous errors, why the insane urgency to act before the facts are established?
2. There are two UN Security Council meetings scheduled for early this week: why pre-empt them with a blatant violation of the UN Charter? There is no established legal doctrine of “R2P” under International Law, but acts of aggression by one sovereign State against another ARE outlawed
3. Whoever is responsible for this latest attack on Syria, the timing is surely miraculous, coming immediately after the Israeli atrocities in Gaza. Two UN SC resolutions condemning those killings were vetoed by the USA last week, and consequently what we are in fact witnessing is not the destruction of the Syrian regime, but of the binding authority of the United Nations – quite literally, ignored in the breach
4. Reports indicate that a large proportion of the incoming ordnance was shot down by Syrian air defences and, if previous reports are accurate, this also occurred during the 2017 cruise missile attack. If evidence is produced showing this to be true, and juxtaposed with the apparent failure of the US Patriot and Israeli “Iron Dome” systems to protect against incoming Scuds, then the credibility of the US armaments industry will be further undermined – is it any wonder that India, Saudi Arabia and Turkey are all lining up to buy the S400 system?
5. It is now surely crucial to watch for signs that the Russian stance may now be hardening from polite diplomacy to something altogether sterner; with nothing other than gut instinct to base it upon, my sense is that they have perhaps now seen enough, and realised that playing by the rules of international law and intergovernmental etiquette are getting them nowhere.
6. It will be equally interesting to see where China comes out on this; remember, if you will, that 3 US Carrier groups are currently facing off against 40+ Chinese warships in the South China Sea, the British Royal Navy is also poking its nose into the mix, and the North Korean thing is by no means settled
7. I do not class myself as a student of history, and I was not around in 1914 or 1939, but my sense is that we are now experiencing the most dangerous period so far in my 57-year lifetime, and whilst I have not yet arranged a fitting for my aluminium millinery, I have started to make arrangements for what I would do in the event that basic infrastructure services became unavailable for a period of time. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how sincerely I hope that I will be shown to be a stupid old fool, frightened of his own shadow. But I am frightened – not by the prospect of my own mortality, but by the crass stupidity of those who stand in authority above us, their venal corruption, mendacity and hypocrisy.
Footnote: RT just flashed up that 2 Israeli aircraft were involved in the strike: HOW PREDICTABLE, and quite frankly, who cares? Damn me as an anti-Semite if you will (I am not), but the blatant cruelty, hypocrisy and arrogance of the Israeli state is simply breathtaking, and the craven obeisance of the USA and its vassals in the face of these atrocities surely signals the nadir of Western civilisation
Agree with you Ophelia.
And the butchering of unarmed Palestinians was an outrage.
And now this alleged, unprovoked and illegal; attack on the sovereign state of Syria and the murder of Syrian people.
It is blatantly clear this whole destructive bloodbath of the Middle East has been completely played out for Israel and the creation of greater Israeli state.
I read recently that the blue wavy lines on the Israeli flag are the Nile and the Euphrates and the intention is – openly – an Israeli state with those borders – stealing Palestine is just the start.
Millions have died to give the non semites of Southern Russia/Caucasus their blood state.
And they plan the deaths of millions more and not just the Middle East but also parts of Ukraine in their intent of a new Jewish state there..
This is the final straw to me.
They must be stopped.
Israeli action is the greatest holocaust of the semite people in our history as they attack and murder at will.
“my sense is that we are now experiencing the most dangerous period so far in my 57-year lifetime,”
I’m 56 and I feel it too.
Trump’s puerile statement on F’kwitter that Syria and Russia will pay a “big price” reminds me of the Nazi-type gangs that smash up Arab properties in Palestine and spray up the words “PRICE TAG”. Does anybody else talk like that?
Which airforce is bombing the airbase east of Homs? Is it the US or is that US stooge in the Elysée doing it for them? As I understand it, the Pentagon has denied involvement. Surely they can have a guess though?
France have denied it too. Most journalists will know who not to ask until they’re told.
The Russian military has said Iｓｒael did the bombing. According to the Syrian government, five of eight missiles were shot down.
The British seem to have made little effort to ‘secure’ Skripal and daughter. No new names, no facial surgery and so forth. Hanging in Salisbury juxta Porton Down as a spy and double agent does suggest this guy may not have been very important in the intelligence Great Game so why would anybody wish to dispose of him?
Unless perhaps this guy is a double double agent suspected of passing UK ‘secrets’ to Russia. Once a spy, always a spy. Difficult habit to kick. So handy to have PD just down the road.
we don’t know there is no facial surgery. my view is it will happen and they will be shipped out to destination undisclosed and then we will be told
“The British seem to have made little effort to ‘secure’ Skripal and daughter. No new names, no facial surgery and so forth”
Aren’t they working on that one? Neither have been seen since March. Julia’s call was surely unofficial. Obviously the press have been fed the story that they will be ‘disappeared’ to the US, which would worry me greatly as a relative. This takes destroying evidence to a whole new level.
The whole business of the Salisbury Medical officer refusing to answer questions, whether about communication with relatives or consent forms, doesn’t sit well with her duty of care and breaches human rights. There was some ‘fighting talk’ from Viktoria in the media at the weekend which suggests she isn’t simply going to let things drop. This is going to be very uncomfortable for Dr Christine Blanshard. The Hospital appointed lawyer for the Skripals, Vikram Sachdeva QC, in the High Court isn’t looking squeaky clean either.
The court was told, ‘there has been no approach from any Russian family member, any Russian government agency, or a lawyer acting for them to seek access to the Skripals or their medical records.’ Patently untrue.
@MaryPaul&Copydude
I did suspect the hospitalization and the near death stuff of being a cover up for something LeCaré-ish.
His daughter’s easy connexions with the homeland are weird given this man’s status as, supposedly, an enemy of the Russian state.
Someone’s being naïve. Don’t think it’s the Kremlin.
Someone royal needs to have a baby, die or go on Ant&Dec to bury this.
They’d have to sew up Johnson’s mouth too.
“New identities” and “relocation” is of course a convenient way to deny all contact with the Skripals after the affair will be concluded. The alternative would have been their “death” (real or faked) from the poisoning, but this option had seemingly been rejected – most obvious reason being the desire of UK-USA to have Skripals corroborate their crumbling narrative on Russia’s culpability.
The second part of the plan is now being enacted. Using Israel who has always acted with impunity bombing Syria, the international conspiracists are setting the scene to soften the population to unified action in Syria. Don’t really know what the plan is . Remove Assad then what?
https://www.rt.com/news/423545-israel-planes-syria-strike/
Remove Iran. Yes-they really are that stupid.
“Remove Assad then what?”
Nothing. Jihadis will do. Just as long as Syria is not united.
Then get the US troops in to protect Israel from the jihadists, the former Israeli allies.
Very similar to: destroy Iraq which made Iran the most powerful, then get the dummies to attack Iran to protect you from the effects of destroying Iraq.
That about wraps it up
Israel also bombed the Gaza Strip last night. Does that get a mention in the MSM?
They have ‘impunity’ to do so. Assad bombing his own people is much more newsworthy than Israel bombing the captive unarmed Palestinians.
Dr Chris Busby on the Scripals/Porton Down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4utEI2EU64
The jackal of the Middle East acts as it usually does
From the Lebanese airspace, f** cowards.
To provoke Russians, to see what their response would be and then ran to hide behind the US back, cowardly jackals
Israel has shown it only has limited options. Plane launched missiles at the only target they can get to safely and out again. Reports say only 3 of the 8 missiles got through. It looks like an attack to slow down the Syria offensive by limiting their air support. No reports of targeting air defenses if it was a softening up for a sustained campaign. It would be interesting to find out if any Russian personnel were present or killed.
Here is a video of the forthcoming UN Security Council meeting at which the delegates of Western Nations make their formal submissions about Gaza and the missile attack on Syria to the Israeli Ambassador
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Cb5Wk2t-8
That was probably carefully preplanned and coordinated with the boss of the jackal over in Wash. DC
And probably that was also to test how resolute Russians would be in defending Syrians and Iranians, to see the chain of command before the upcoming big strike by the jackal’s bosses.
@MarkSpencer, who raised some rather strange objections to my theory.
“your “theory” that you’re pushing so insistently is just another attempt to buoy the “Russia did it” agenda in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The only difference is that instead of blaming Putin directly for the attack, you’re putting the blame on Russia for “losing control” over Novichok, which was one of Theresa May’s initial accusations.”
I’m certainly not blaming the Russians for “losing control” Where did you get that from? Actually, it sounds like you are blaming the British, so what is your “overwhelming evidence” for that bizarre claim?
Are you seriously suggesting that there are no criminal gangs from the Caucasus? You obviously have zero knowledge of the Caucasus and even less of its criminal gangs. Let me enlighten you:
“West of the Caspian Sea lies the Caucasus, a mountainous region that comprises of southeastern Russia (Northern Caucasus), Armenia, Azerbaijan (including disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region (where Mr G was Director of the KGB back in the 1990s) and Georgia (South Caucasus).”
Please do some basic research on the criminal gangs prevalent there before making such bizarre claims:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_mafia
https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/RussianOrgCrime.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_mafia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_mafia
You claim it would be impossible for its members to “smuggle a chemical weapon into UK”
Again, you reveal your ignorance of weapons smuggling and the routes used from the Caucasus region into Europe. I refer you to:
TERRORISM AND ORGANISED CRIME IN POST-SOVIET RUSSIA
https://www.ffi.no/no/Rapporter/01-03417.pdf
An Unrealized Nexus? WMD-related Trafficking, Terrorism, and Organized Crime: https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2007_07-08/CoverStory
Organised crime and Russian security forces: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14678800100590611?needAccess=true&journalCode=ccsd20
Weapons Traffic in Russia’s Caucasus:
http://www.jspes.org/summer2010_bowers.html
“All victims of the so-called “most deadly chemical weapon” are still alive and getting better”
Because it was not used as a gas but rather through skin contact!
As for the pets, well, why don’t you do some original research yourself and contact the vets and try to work out what happened?
“Neither does it explain why this “gang” would attack their target on British soil rather than in Russia, with much less risk to themselves and their plan. Neither why would they elect to use a “calling card” murder method, “frame” Russia and thus enrage Putin himself, over something as insignificant as a mob hit on a private citizen.”
You just answered your own questions there, Mark, Bravo! It was precisely to embarrass Putin that it was done in this way and such a calling card was left.
2. “If London wanted to frame Moscow, why wait for some “Caucasian gang” to put in action an extremely convoluted and unlikely assassination scheme, “
Again, you answer your own question, obviously because the opportunity presented itself and was taken advantage of.
What actual evidence do you have for your assertion that the British government did “ it all themselves with resources from Porton Down and under cover of Operation Toxic Dagger?”
“3. False flags in Syria would have to be prepared well before the “Caucasian gang” strike. Or are you implying that these pesky “Caucasians” also staged the Gouta attack?”
Your most ridiculous assertion. As you well know there is an ongoing history of false flag chemical attacks used as a pretext for attacking Syria. Are you seriously suggesting that there will be no more in the near future? (you have already been proved wrong today about that)
“4. So you have no idea of “the actual mechanics of murder”, but are still willing to believe that it was a “murder” (right, with zero dead and all involved recovering quickly).”
We all happily know the Skripals are recovering.
“5. Your theory doesn’t have a leg to stand on regardless of the “mechanics” of nonexistent “murder”.”
“6. Your theory does not explain Russia’s actions: if Moscow had reason to believe that a third party was responsible, would they lose the opportunity to shift the blame? Again like the MSM you’re proceeding from the assumption that Putin is an idiot, whereas he’s anything but.”
I never claimed that Putin was an idiot.
Why do you suppose Moscow had reason to believe that a third party was responsible? The FSB is currently interrogating Julia’s boyfriend and if they are any good at their job they will move on to interrogate Mrs V and Mr. G in due course.
“7. Your story is one of these “constantly changing stories” designed to point the finger at Russia whatever the cost, so apologies if your thanks to Craig sounds a bit insincere.”
“Designed to point a finger at Russia”? Did you actually read my post?
What I stated was quite the opposite.
As for my thanks to Craig, they are as sincere as my concerns for your lucidity and research skills.
@MarkSpencer, who raised some rather strange objections to my theory.
This seems to be your second attempt in making this post, which already appeared earlier today, but was apparently taken down (perhaps due to throwing more personal attacks than permitted). Well, anyway, I’m happy to oblige so long as it’s a civilized discussion.
I’m certainly not blaming the Russians for “losing control” Where did you get that from?
Why, from Prime Minister Theresa May, who in her accusatory speech before the British Parliament on March 12th said precisely this:
“Mr Speaker, there are therefore only two plausible explanations for what happened in Salisbury on the 4th of March.
Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country.
Or the Russian government lost control of this potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.“.
The second prong of this accusation, which you are so actively defending, puts the blame on Russia just as squarely as the first, if in a slightly more circumspect manner. In legal terms, this is culpability through negligence. And as Mrs May so directly put in her speech of 14 March:
“There are only two plausible explanations: either this was a direct act by the Russian state against our country; or, conceivably, the Russian Government could have lost control of a military-grade nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others…There is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter, and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.
Actually, it sounds like you are blaming the British, so what is your “overwhelming evidence” for that bizarre claim?
“Bizarre claim”? Careful, Billy, you’re sounding more and more like Boris Johnson and his MSM helpers:
Boris Johnson: Russia’s position in Skripal case is ‘increasingly bizarre‘
http://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-russias-position-in-skripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/a-43043873
Russia makes bizarre ‘Sherlock Holmes’ defence over Salisbury spy poisoning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/14/russia-makes-bizarre-sherlock-holmes-defence-salisbury-spy-poisoning/
Russia’s bizarre rant at the UN Security Council shows how alarmed the Kremlin is at international fury over spy poisoning, says Theresa May’s ex national security adviser
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5585365/Lyall-Grant-says-Russias-bizarre-rant-Security-Council-shows-Kremlin-rattled.htm
“Russia’s ambassador to the UK held a bizarre 90-minute press conference declaring: “We hear all the stories and the theories about our motivations. We don’t buy it.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-says-boris-johnson-12331502
Of course, in reality there was nothing “bizarre” about Russia’s position (for instance, what Bojo called “bizarre” were Russia’s quite reasonable demands for blood samples and investigation transparency). The term “bizarre” is widely used to deny the opponent’s credibility by implying that his claims are outlandish and not to be taken seriously. It is a badly veiled personal attack that is apparently quite common in today’s propaganda pieces.
So, welcome to the club, Billy.
Are you seriously suggesting that there are no criminal gangs from the Caucasus?
Where have I ever suggested that, Billy? You’re conflating again. Just because there might be some criminal gangs in the Caucasus (or hit squads in the FSB) doesn’t mean any of them attempted to murder an inconsequential civilian, in the UK, with a “military grade nerve agent” that allegedly points directly at Russia, and botched the attempt so thoroughly that all “victims”, including the “target”, are alive and well.
Because it was not used as a gas but rather through skin contact!
Oh, and skin contact makes it somehow non-lethal? No, it doesn’t, but even if it did – then why use a non-lethal tool for murder?
As for the pets, well, why don’t you do some original research yourself and contact the vets and try to work out what happened?
The Salisbury Vets already made a public statement that speaks for itself:
“We contacted the police straightaway upon hearing the news that Mr Skripal had been admitted to hospital, and a number of times afterwards, to make them aware of Mr Skripal’s pets and their needs. We contacted Porton Down – in case the animals may have been taken into quarantine. We also offered to take care of Mr Skripal’s pets in his absence. We were never contacted by the police or Porton Down in return regarding Mr Skripal’s pets”.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2547053/guinea-pigs-and-cat-belonging-to-sergei-skripal-died-in-wake-of-nerve-agent-attack/
So the authorities were well aware of the pets “straightaway”, yet for some reason the animals died of “malnourishment” or had to be “put down”, and their remains conveniently incinerated. This looks too much like tying of loose ends to ignore the obvious explanation: that the pets were disposed of either immediately, or after hearing Russia’s claims that the animals could hold clues to the mystery (e.g. possible Novichok exposure etc).
It was precisely to embarrass Putin that it was done in this way and such a calling card was left.
Why would any “Caucasian mafia” want to make a personal enemy of the most powerful man in the world (according to TIME magazine)? That would definitely make them the target not just of ordinary criminal police, but the entire plethora of Russian military and secret services, all itching for revenge and to absolve Mother Russia of this heinous crime. That is not something a sensible criminal organization would ever want.
There certainly might be terrorist actors like ISIS or rogue Chechens, but when those are involved, the death toll is usually higher than zero. And imagine if terrorists really got hold of Novichok – now that would certainly call for a state of National Emergency to be declared across the entire UK – and a good part of Europe too, probably! Instead, we have policemen walking around “ground zero” with no protective gear whatsoever, no manhunt being declared, and citizens being told “threat is minor”. Indeed, a van attack causes more turbulence than, in May’s words, the “brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil” “using a weapons-grade nerve agent”.
What actual evidence do you have for your assertion that the British government did “ it all themselves with resources from Porton Down and under cover of Operation Toxic Dagger?”
Because that theory, unlike yours, answers all the questions: the who, the how, and most importantly the why. It doesn’t need deus ex machina inventions like “invisible Russian hit squad”, “Caucasian mafia” or “murderous mother-in-law”: it uses the simplest explanations, the most obvious culprits, and doesn’t leak through a dozen different holes, being in line with similar provocations previously conducted by UK/USA, most notably the Iraq WMDs.
As you well know there is an ongoing history of false flag chemical attacks used as a pretext for attacking Syria.
Yes, and Salisbury fits right in.
Are you seriously suggesting that there will be no more in the near future?
How did you manage to arrive at that conclusion? I was merely responding to your invention that the Salisbury attack was caused by some “Caucasian mafia” rather than the usual suspects, i.e. those who pursue this course in Syria, and Iraq before that. Why would they need to wait for something as ridiculously convoluted as a mafia hit with a “military-grade nerve agent” on UK soil, when they’ve got everything they need to stage it themselves, and have form doing so?
We all happily know the Skripals are recovering.
Indeed they do. Zero dead out of three victims, even without the special antidote. The “nerve agent” must have been well past expiry date, and the “assassins” spectacularly bad at their job.
Why do you suppose Moscow had reason to believe that a third party was responsible?
Because even an amateur detective like you, Billy, were able to figure it out, right? So it must present no difficulty for Mr Putin’s cadre of investigators, right? After all,
I never claimed that Putin was an idiot.
So he must be arriving to the same conclusion as you, right, Billy? Then why haven’t the actual culprits been arrested already, and presented to the world as proof of Russia’s innocence? Maybe you should write a letter to the FSB, explaining everything, and thus avert a major international crisis?
Designed to point a finger at Russia”? Did you actually read my post? What I stated was quite the opposite.
No, Billy, what you stated was quite in line with what Theresa May stated: that Russia was culpable through negligence. Knowingly or unknowingly, you’re aiding the official narrative, though from a slightly different perspective. And that, as they say, is that.
Thank God, I finally managed to get you out of your snide little comfort zone and you have now revealed your theory in all its blinding simplicity:
The British government did it “all themselves with resources from Porton Down and under cover of Operation Toxic Dagger?” It answers all the questions: the who, the how, and most importantly the why. It doesn’t need deus ex machina inventions: it uses the simplest explanations, the most obvious culprits, and doesn’t leak through a dozen different holes,”
Mark, it leaks like a sieve and you know it!
I can only suggest that you write a letter to parliament and the national media, expounding your well thought out conclusions and demand an audience with the Queen, or does she know as well?
On second thoughts, maybe not, Mark, perhaps she organised it all and she might set the royalist corgis onto you. I’m sure they would relish the thought, given your surname.
Knowingly or unknowingly, Mark, you’re aiding the conspiratorial loony bin narrative, though from a slightly different perspective. And a tin hat, as they say, is a tin hat.
http://thesaker.is/the-truth-about-the-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria/
If this has already been posted – my apologies.