Robert Fisk is one of the very few excellent investigative journalists still employed in the UK. He is twice winner of the British Press Awards‘ Journalist of the Year prize, and seven time winner of the British Press Awards’ Foreign Correspondent of the Year. He is extremely smart and knows the Middle East very well. He has just made his way – not accompanied by Russian or Syrian government officials – to Douma and this is what he reports.
If you care to search for Robert Fisk on twitter, the attacks on his reputation and integrity at this very moment from achieve nothing neo-con trolls and media lackeys are astonishing. He is in Douma – they are at their desks.
It also says a great deal about our media that one of the greatest living British journalists is employed only by The Independent, a newspaper which has become extremely marginal, while other genuine greats like Jon Pilger, with a fantastic pedigree, do not have access to UK mainstream media at all. 60,000 people on average are reading my journalism here every day, but no mainstream outlet will carry it.
UPDATE you can now read Fisk’s brilliant report from Douma here. Excellent journalism with appropriate scepticism of all sides, and vital information of the nature of the jihadists the UK/US/Saudi Arabia and Israel so desperately support.
Surprised the independent published it….
It’s high time everyone on ALL sides stopped hiding behind the “we have incontrovertible evidence, but we can’t share it, because is sensitive and may compromise something, trust us” ruse.
We need all the evidence in the public domain now, or as a compromise presented to the UN General Assembly, let all 193 Member States make there minds up, then we might get to see who is telling the truth and how far reaching the ‘International support’ really is…
I know it’s not going to happen, and I’m living in a ‘fantasy land’ suggesting it. But as more reports like this from independent sources get published in what is arguably the MSM, the more the drums of war will be beaten in an attempt to invalided them and the international bodies charged with collecting evidence.
Or evidence will just bombed out of existence, as the stage has already been set for another CW ‘attack’ and subsequent ‘punishment’ bombings.
Fisk is one of few journalists I like and read, his sorrowful book on Lebanon Pity the Nation, is very striking.
I think what jumps out at you in Fisk’s Independent article, is the thought of men, women and children having to scurry through underground caves, on their way to make ends meet. Also folk living in them in fear for their lives.
We sometimes focus too much on the actions of the West and Assad, while missing the true and awful heart of the unjust conflict, that of the suffering of the Syrian people on the ground.
I’d like to see Fisk head to Yemen, and gives us a clearer picture of what’s going on there as well.
while missing the true and awful heart of the unjust conflict, that of the suffering of the Syrian people on the ground</i.
Yes, and to think that they could spare themselves so much suffering if they simply accepted Assad as their lawful president!
That’s irrelevant, the West fabricated the war to begin with, supporting Assad or not, would’ve still seen Syria attacked.
I vaguely recall Saddam using chemical weapons against Iran, at that time Saddam was backed by the west, so using the weapon was seen as acceptable.
the West fabricated the war to begin with
Wait, so there was no war before last week? Huh?
I vaguely recall Saddam using chemical weapons against Iran, at that time Saddam was backed by the west, so using the weapon was seen as acceptable.
IIRC, various bits of the West were somehow supporting both sides of that war, so I don’t think that counts as an example of competence on any side.
“Yes, and to think that they could spare themselves so much suffering if they simply accepted Assad as their lawful president!”
That’s right, the majority do support him. If they didn’t, he wouldn’t still be there.
If they didn’t, he wouldn’t still be there.
Syrian democracy FTW!
Quite a few people on twitter seem to be encouraged by Lord West saying the Douma chemical attack could well be a false flag (here, for example: https://twitter.com/VanessaBeeley/status/986131126694612992 ).
The video of West on BBC News is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROMV0nJvyE&feature=youtu.be
I would think that the BBC (i.e. the security services) allowing him to say that means that it suits them just fine.
I think Sky News cut off Maj-Gen Shaw (who had started to say exactly the same thing as West) to create a buzz about this topic.
They know that they have a problem with this bleedin’ obvious view being held by so many people:
“It makes no sense for Assad to launch a chemical attack when he’d won anyway”
So they get a couple of respected military types to confirm that that is indeed a valid view.
West doubts the authenticity of the chemical attack video.
Yes! Exactly! A relieved nation cries.
But then West says (at 3:20 in the video):
“…If they’ve got – and I’m not privy to this – if they’ve got really good intelligence, let’s say, for example, GCHQ or NSA intercepts of Syrian officers discussing an attack and saying ‘yes, let’s use chlorine’, then OK, fine, and I have no difficulty with what was done, none at all…”
He thinks the chemical attack video is probably a fake and that it doesn’t provide sufficient grounds for attacking Syria, but he would be convinced by exactly the same kind of evidence that Colin Powell presented to the UN ahead of the invasion of Iraq? This is what the NY Times reported on February 6, 2003:
“Among the evidence presented at the United Nations Security Council were recordings of Iraqis referring to ”nerve agents,” and to apparent efforts to remove incriminating material before the arrival of United Nations inspectors. Scratchy-sounding voices in Arabic saying, ”We evacuated everything,” ”Remove,” and ”Forbidden ammo,” echoed eerily in a chamber clearly tense over the possibility of war.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/world/threats-responses-security-council-powell-un-speech-presents-case-show-iraq-has.html
Here’s Powell’s UN performance when he introduces the recordings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErlDSJHRVMA&feature=youtu.be&t=235
How difficult would it be to produce recordings which can be presented as Syrian officers discussing using chemical weapons and saying the magic words that justify the latest FUKUS attack and no doubt future ones, too?
To sum up, I think it is a set-up:
Shaw (interrupted by Sky News – “Ooh! He must really be onto something then”) and West are the decent chaps who know what’s what and think what the public are thinking. They are obviously trustworthy.
But West would be convinced by a recording of dubious provenance.
“Well, he talks a lot of sense, you know, that West, he must be right…”
You don’t retire as Head of the British Navy or Head of Special Forces to become a straw man.
Lord West and Major General Shaw are obviously genuine.
Interestingly, The Independent has been skotched from Google’s headline news grabs this morning 170418 – while Robert Fisk’s report for the Independent is listed under World Socialist Web Site – which on it’s front page asks for support to ‘fight Google’s censorship’.
The Old Testament was written by men and no more proves the existence of God than the book Peter Pan proves the existence of fairies.
With regards to the so called chlorine gas attack I woulds say that they do use quite a lot of chlorine for water sanitation in gas tanks and in crystal form to add to the water supply domestic and public.That was my experience many years ago when in the Middle East so how you sort out the difference between a deliberate gas attack and a damaged domestic chlorine gas tank is anyones guess.Any answers?
Watch the video on Fisk’s Independent report. Is it credible? Are the heart monitor tabs on one of the children positioned correctly? Do you administer ventolin by activating the spray in the general direction of the face of the child? Is ventolin the drug of choice when the chemical has not been identified? If it was chlorine, no, certainly not. Why are only the heads of the children being drenched with water?
Why are there no adults effected?
Listen to the accounts of people in Ghouta. Do they believe there was a chemical attack?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXwG-901yU
‘ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says’:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/world/middleeast/isis-chemical-weapons-syria-iraq-mosul.html
‘..American and Iraqi military officials have expressed growing alarm over the prospect of additional chemical attacks as the allies press to regain both Mosul and Raqqa, the Islamic State capital in Syria….’
So, the Americans (and obviously the British) are perfectly aware that the headchoppers have CW’s, and use them. Can someone tell May?
‘Rebel group accusing Assad of gas attack ‘USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS’ against Kurds’:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/944900/Syria-Assad-chemical-attack-Douma-Jaish-al-Islam-Kurds-YPG-Kurdistan
May said in Parliament that Daesh had no presence in Douma – big deal. Jaish DID have a presence there – in fact it was their HQ. And they have admitted using CW’s in the past:
‘…Jaish al-Islam (Army of Islam) was formerly known as Liwa al-Islam (Brigade of Islam) and is a coalition of Salafist Islamist militant groups based in the Douma and Eastern Ghouta regions of the Syrian capital of Damascus.
Douma was the site of an alleged chemical weapons attack where up to 43 people were killed and it has been blamed on the Syrian regime.
But according to reports from news outlet Kurdistan 24, the group admitted it used chemical weapons in a mainly Kurdish populated area in the city of Aleppo, northern Syria in April 2016.
In an official statement, Jaish al-Islam said: “One of the field commanders in Aleppo used weapons that he was not authorised to use in these kinds of confrontations.”
Not that I believe CW’s were used at all – it was a hoax. Vanessa Beeley ( http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/04/15/episode-229-war-by-way-of-deception-in-syria-with-vanessa-beeley-piers-robinson/ ) explains how such hoaxes have been carried out in the past – by waiting for an airstrike, then turning off the lights in the tunnels/basements and pouring chlorine on the floors, then yelling ‘chemical attack’.
From IT our Counterculture paper.
Assad’s Terrible Regime Caused the Civil War
“Nope. Fact is that, starting in 2011, tens of thousands of foreigners – Al Qaeda and other jihadists – were sent into Syria to overthrow Assad. The US and its allies – Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and Jordan – assisted in buying and transporting weapons to the “insurgents.” Special forces from the US, UK, France and Israel also spent billions of dollars arming and training the terrorists, a.k.a “moderate rebels.” What’s happening in Syria is not a civil war – it’s a proxy war.”
http://internationaltimes.it/debunking-10-lies-about-syria-and-assad/
‘RUSSIA SAYS DOUMA CHEMICAL ATTACK WAS ”PLANNED PROVOCATION” BY BRITISH INTELLIGENCE’:
https://southfront.org/russia-says-douma-chemical-attack-was-planned-provocation-by-british-intelligence/
‘..According to the Russian envoy to the OPCW Aleksandr Shulgin, Russia has “irrefutable proof” that the so-called Douma chemical attack was a “false-flag” orchestrated by British intelligence services with possible support from the US.
“Therefore, we have not just a “high degree of confidence,” as our Western partners claim, but we have incontrovertible evidence that there was no incident on April 7 in Douma and that all this was a planned provocation by the British intelligence services, probably, with the participation of their senior allies from Washington with the aim of misleading the international community and justifying aggression against Syria,” Shulgin said at a special meeting of the UN chemical watchdog’s executive council.
“Things unfolded according to the pre-written scenario prepared by Washington. There’s no doubt, the Americans play ‘first fiddle’ in all of this,” he said adding that the Douma incident was staged by “pseudo-humanitarian NGOs,” which are sponsored by opponents of the Syrian government.
“Among them, are the notorious ‘White Helmets,’ which some delegations are so fond of praising,” Shulgin added.
He also noted that Russian military specialists had found “not a single piece of evidence” confirming the claims about the alleged chemical attack. In turn, the Russian specialists reportedly found local witnesses who said that the video allegedly showing the aftermath of the perceived attack was staged.
The diplomat went further and drew attention to the timing of the attack adding that the Syrian government had no reason to gas its own citizens when the town was already almost liberated. Shulgin described the accusations against Damascus as “absurd”.
“Not a single witness, not one poisoned person in the hospital could be found. No remains of chemical weapons were found. But we have managed to find direct participants in the filming of the production video, which was presented as ‘proof’ of the chemical attack,” Shulgin said….’
Well, the OPCW are in Douma now ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43792120 ), so what happens when they confirm there is no evidence of CW’s?
Will Trump, May and Macron rebuild the pharmaceutical facility that made cancer medicines and snake bite remedies?
Will May wear sackcloth and ashes as she grovellingly apologises for misleading Parliament?And I hate to say it, but Corbyn also ought to wear sackcloth and ashes, for falling for the BS; when is he going to understand that False Flag attacks and hoaxes are extremely real indeed, and not just ‘conspiracy theories’? And to learn that common sense should be applied, as per ‘cui bono’, in situations like Salisbury and Douma?
I half heard Today on radio 4 yesterday and a lady talking about the White Helmets being linked to extremist groups and being cut short by the interviewer.
BBC’s HARDtalk interviewed Lavrov, but guess what, their version is ~23 minutes [1], whereas the full interview released my the Russian MFA is ~32 minutes [2], let’s play “what did they cut out,” shall we?
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswjds
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84W7vfOKBhs
Thanks for post IM. Several interesting points there. Watched the longer version and yes may be worthwhile to compare with shorter.
Lavrov touches on a point at outset, but does not repeat it when talking on same theme of safeguards and channels / deconfrontation at the end: he doesn’t want to. It’s interesting as what he was politely alluding to in a light way may substantiate something Major General Shaw (or Lord West, I forget which) also referred to, namely as to questions also asked also by US commanders. I note that Foreign Minister Lavrov respects US military commanders.
Paul
If the truth does come out UK Govt will have to provide a massive distraction.
On another subject I see the D of E has been in hospital recently. The Queen is very old too. I sincerely wish them good health and long life
You know, Tom Watson’s initiative to solicit a legal opinion from an oxford university law specialist was a good one. Labour should consider becoming it’s own news organization. It’s not the mainstream media nor the intelligence services can be relied on. Seumas Milne would be well placed to edit. Aggregate interviews with Shaw”, Lord west, The opcw… seek interviews with Salisbury hospital, and report if these people are officially gagged.
So was there no evidence of any nerve agent used in Douma or was there a nerve agent used as part of a false flag operation by the UK? Which is Russia’s position? Both seem to have been advanced at different times recently?
I’m glad you’re impressed with Fisk because his recent written reports have been so full of shite that I’ve thought of sacking him. As for the Inderelictependent, I dumped it in 2003 because it has become everything I disdained in the corp-0-rat media. Such a pity that the Whittam-Smith version was dumped.
Does anyone remember the Yellow Rain Affair?
(Not the recent one in the Steele Dossier on Trump)
It has remarkable parallels with the current situation.
Reports in the 1970s of Yellow Rain, alleged chemical/toxin weapons attacks in Southeast Asia and Afghanistan, sparked the first large-scale investigation conducted by the United States into allegations of chemical and biological weapons (CBW) use.
In September 1981 Alexander Haig, the then US secretary of state, made a stunning allegation. He claimed to have evidence that Soviet-backed forces in Vietnam and Laos had been waging chemical warfare on villagers in those countries. A dossier, released shortly after, documented eye-witness accounts – dating back to 1977 – of aircraft spraying areas with a substance that left vegetation littered with small yellow spots. Far worse were reports of horrific symptoms in the exposed populations: people who suffered stomach cramps and vomiting, before dying. This, according to a lab the US government employed, was due to deadly trichothecene toxins present in the yellow material that rained down on the villagers.
Subsequently, a group of academic scientists led by Harvard molecular biologist Matthew Meselson questioned the validity of the evidence on which the U.S. government had based its allegations of toxin warfare. The skeptics argued that trichothecene mycotoxins occur naturally in Southeast Asia and that the alleged victims had confused chemical attacks with harmless showers of yellow feces released by swarms of giant Asian honeybees. The scientific critics also raised doubts about the reliability of the refugee testimony and the laboratory analyses.
There was a larger context to this story. When Alexander Haig claimed that the Soviets were using chemical weapons in Laos, the Reagan administration was also trying to ratchet up the Cold War. Specifically, they were trying to get the Europeans to accept stationing nuclear-tipped medium-range missiles in Germany, the Pershing II. The Soviets were threatening to put their own missiles, the SS-20, in Poland.
The whole chemical weapon story was another stick to beat the Soviets with.
It ended up being a huge embarrassment to the US. The official US line was a very serious charge about a war crime, and it turned out to be bee feces.
Credit goes to Prof. Matthew Meselson of Harvard, an entomologist who was able to out-analyze the entire US Army based on resources available in Cambridge.
If you read this US Propaganda piece from 1983, you will see exactly the same kind of language used, same kind of allegations, same scientific hoodwinking, same media hysteria, same Intelligence source “evidence”:
http://insidethecoldwar.org/sites/default/files/documents/Yellow%20Rain_1.pdf
Turned out it was all LIES, and the toxin came from BEE excrerment,
The “Yellow Rain” controversy: Are there lessons from the past?
By a scientist in Thailand, who I greatly admire, Henry Wilde:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279640502_The_Yellow_Rain_controversy_Are_there_lessons_from_the_past
The Yellow Rain Affair, Lessons from a Discredited Allegation
https://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/Meselsonchapter.pdf
Misperceptions in preparing for biological attack: an historical survey
http://www.oie.int/doc/ged/D3223.PDF
The American political, military and scientific establishment were eventually exposed as liars and frauds.
Nothing new there, but what makes me sick is how they used their dirty propaganda and “interview” tactics on starving Hmong refugees to concoct fake eyewitness accounts and then betrayed the Hmong guerrillas and left most of those brave soldiers to rot.
America, it is you who is rotten to the core, and as we can see now, you learned your dirty tricks breast feeding from your mother, Britain.
“A recent publication by a former CIA (Central Intelligence Agency, USA) operational officer, who also worked on the “Yellow Rain” issue in Thailand full-time for over two years at the same time as the author,discussed his experiences in great detail. He had extensive contacts with Vietnamese prisoners and military defectors. One was a senior Soviet-trained chemical and bio warfare expert. He was extensively debriefed, repeatedly polygraphed, and stated that there was no chemical or biological weapon used by the Vietnamese army. He concluded that the Yellow Rain story was mostly the result of fabrication by intelligence peddlers who populated border regions and refugee camps. Their information was amplified by gullible relief workers, missionaries, inexperienced interviewers and, finally, politicians who found this information useful for their cause or career advancement,
To prove that something does not exist, is more difficult than to confirm events that did ”
The “Yellow Rain” controversy: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279640502_The_Yellow_Rain_controversy_Are_there_lessons_from_the_past [accessed Apr 18 2018].
A report on the “White Helmets”
https://www.facebook.com/CarlaOrtizOfficial/videos/2132748790076439/
Thanks, Tatyana. That is a fantastic report. I suppose if the UK government is so blatantly financing terrorists and terrorism why shouldn’t anyone else ? It is clearly UK government policy to finance and supply Al Nusra/ AlQueda /.ISIS.
Thanks Tatyana. Incontrovertible evidence of SAMS and WH with AQ and IS. Shamed to see British ambulances there. The National Health Service is a powerful thing over here – now apparently associated with terrorists
Thank you, @Geoffrey, @Crackerjack
Another report, russian journalist this time. A boy tells the truth about fake chemical attack in Douma at Russia-24 channel.
I’m sorry, I have no TV in my house, so I’ll put an Instagram link
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bht2xhwHTKt/?taken-by=evgeny.poddubny
^^^
| | |
addition, found a link to recorded reportage, if you can understand russian and if you can stand some advertisements
https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3008622#/video/https%3A%2F%2Fplayer.vgtrk.com%2Fiframe%2Fvideo%2Fid%2F1779959%2Fstart_zoom%2Ftrue%2FshowZoomBtn%2Ffalse%2Fsid%2Fvesti%2FisPlay%2Ftrue%2F%3Facc_video_id%3D751691
For almost exact parallels between the 1980s “Yellow Rain: spin and the current Novichok/Syria spin,
see Page 5 “the Soviet Connection: in this document:
MOSCOWS POISON WAR: MOUNTING EVIDENCE OF BATTLEFIELD ATROCITIES
February 5th 1982 – Heritage Foundation
http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/1982/pdf/bg165.pdf
I am currently reading Dark Actors: The Life and Death of David Kelly by Robert Lewis (Simon & Schuster,2013). Lewis looks closely at the Yellow Rain episode. The similarities between that and Salisbury/Douma are chilling.
So the UK government says that the Skripals were poisoned with novichok. The Russians say that they were poisoned with BZ.
Shouldn’t any reasonable British journalist be looking up the symptoms of both of these substances and seeing which best fits the published symptoms that the Skripals had to endure? If they did that they would find out that novichok is supposed to be far stronger than the VX which killed the North Korean leader’s brother in minutes, and BZ symptoms match the Skripals’ symptoms.
The only conclusion that I can come to is that mainstream UK journalists have compared the symptoms, but don’t want to mention the elephant in the room – that from examining the symptoms, it looks likely that the Skripals were poisoned with BZ rather than with a novichok. That would mess up the “of a type developed by Russia” mantra that the UK government was trotting out and point the finger directly at some kind of false flag.
Dave G, it is interesting to note isn’t it that, now that Lavrov has quoted the Swiss report about the BZ and about the high levels of pure A-234 found in the samples which would be instantly lethal, yesterday, suddenly after 6 or so weeks into the so called ‘investigation’ the DEFRA now say the agent was administered in ‘liquid form’ and only on one site, the house. They announced a decontamination programme which would last 7 months when nobody in Salisbury appears to have been contaminated even the alleged person who administered the agent to the door handle. I would say for ‘decontamination programme’ substitute ‘destroying evidence’ just in case an independent enquiry is ever going to be had.
I am not a big Robert Fisk fan – I think he uses his reputation as anti-Israel, anti-US to get people to believe things they would not otherwise do. IE his influence is insidious – he tells people what they want to hear so they accept claims that we should be properly highly skeptical of.
Having said this, his article on Douma was interesting, when it steered clear of gas claims. Douma used to be a town of 110000 people, so its not really surprising that people stopped randomly in the street probably have no clue. Material witnesses are going to have come under huge and probably irresistible pressure from the Government to conceal what has taken place. Simply because the Government knows, that even if the terrorists have undertaken these gas attacks, once the presence of gas is confirmed they will inevitably have to shoulder the blame for it. So we can hardly point fingers at the Syrian government for acting this way – our own bad faith forces to do this. Equally I don’t believe a word of the narratives emerging out of Idlib. It is important to remember that neither the people of Douma or Idlib actually choose to be occupied by Jihadist groups – Idlib particularly was quite a later conquest – Jihadists became dominant there out of tactical considerations, it has no bearing of the level of pro/anti Government support of a particular area.
I would look at the photos of one of the chlorine cylinders
From above: https://i.imgur.com/tQ39N4w.jpg
From below: https://i.imgur.com/CSXRwUz.jpg
Could a cylinder dropped from a helicopter make a neat hole through the ceiling and then leave just the valve end helpfully pointed inside? It might be physically possible, but vastly unlikely I think.
More likely a couple of people lugged a cylinder up onto a roof and either have jackhammered out of a hole or used a pre-existing one, opened the valved and pointed it downwards. Since the photo is the only thing that matters, it COULD of been an empty cylinder. But this is the Army of Islam – what are the chances of them not releasing chlorine into a civilian apartment if they had the opportunity to do so.
I think we need to accept gas release of various types happened, it just wasn’t from the Government. We also need to accept that the Russians and Syrians now have such a low opinion of our ethics they see no other option but to try and remove all evidence and traces.
Agree Sean. It is quite possible that terrorists have staged a Chlorine “attack” somewhere in Douma. The odious scummers at Bellendcat reckon they have evidence though the comments I read were scathing. One gas bottle was undamaged with its neck intact
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/04/11/open-source-survey-alleged-chemical-attacks-douma-7th-april-2018/
Better articulated here
https://southfront.org/there-are-some-problems-with-gas-cylinders-videos-used-by-white-helmets-as-evidence-of-douma-attack/
I have been reading Robert Fisk’s reports for a couple of decades and your post for the first time.
“I think we need to accept gas release of various types happened, it just wasn’t from the Government.”
You can accept that there is a Santa Claus if you want. Right now, there is no evidence of any gas use in Douma. You are simply conjecturing.
Looks like Robert Fisk has shot this ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/17/syria-crisis-medics-intimidated-over-douma-gas-attack ) fox.
Such a shame that the Manchester Guardian has been brought so low.
Thanks for that Steve R. Do you think the government just hands an article to Martin Chulov and says put your name here please ?
Spot on Geoffrey. Those two “reporters” have never entered Syria if their bylines are to be believed and one can only speculate as to who their contacts are. Shaheen is the worst from the reading I have done. Doesn’t even try to hide his pro terrorist stance.
Sorry Steve hit send before saying yes the Guardian stoop to new lows
@ Steve R April 17, 2018 at 20:03
‘..Such a shame that the Manchester Guardian has been brought so low…’
Yep, but it has, so let’s accept it is a busted flush. Who the f*ck wants to buy the Guardian these days?
Boycott; Divest: Sanctions.
Make the assh*les squeal; their already begging for funds; the Saudis can provide it (for a small consideration) I’m sure.
But they have lost their core readers, because they now print BS propaganda. And their intelligent ex-purchasers know it!
Robert Fisk your doing very good important work keeping the British public upto date with honest information, which is very hard to come by in the whole of Europe as well as the UK. Thank you.
A Brilliant podcast: “Secret evidence” “but the dog ate it” “Thwarted by a can of Febreze” review on Robert Fisk & OAN’s report on Damascus. “#whitehelmets – just hop in the bus with the terrorists” @caitoz
https://soundcloud.com/going_rogue/ep-69-us-claims-russia-hacked-the-evidence-of-chemical-attack-in-syria
Hope you enjoy and share as far and as wide as possible 🙂
So do nerve agents dissipate with time or not? We were told in the last 48 hours that 9 sites in Salisbury, identified as contaminated with a nerve agent, will have to be extensively deep cleaned because it does not naturally dissipate.
At the same time we are also told that there is concern about the delays in letting OPCW inspectors into Douma because of the short life span of any nerve agent used there, because they dissipate fairly quickly after use. And delays imight mean there would be no evidence for the inspectors to find. (Re Comment made by technical expert said to have been an observer of Syria’s earlier claimed destruction of its chemical weapons.)
So which is it? Once used, does it dissipate or not ? And if it does, how long does it take? Or does it depend on the form of the agent used, eg whether gas or liquid?
Excellent observation Mary Paul. It will depend on which nerve agent was used (there are many) but let’s focus on Salisbury.
We are told it was Novichok. All of the scientific evidence in the open sources suggest it is highly volatile (i.e. it dissipates quickly). We were told initially it was in powder form (which would reduce volatility as powders are more stable) but now we are told it was actually dispensed in liquid form. Far more volatile. And yet it is still hanging around in the environment?
Nothing makes sense about this and I’m sure in 10 years time Private Eye will have a revalationary story
Sorry but I cant help the cynicism
I think BZ remains for longer in soil/objects than “Novichok”.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Talking of BZ, Sputnik news is reporting today the claim initially made by a Swiss Journalist, and which I posted here earlier (only to be insulted and attacked by a rather bellicose “Scientist” on this forum called IM)
Possibly a Positive Control Marker
“When OPCW sends samples to laboratories, other substances are sometimes included in the samples as what is known as positive controls. It is to test the competence of the laboratories. They have to be able to identify this positive control in the sample. If they are not able to do this then all their results are thrown into doubt,”
Alastair Hay, professor of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds, UK, told Sputnik.
“A precursor of BZ, Quinuclidin-3-ol… was used as the positive control. It was deliberately added to one or more samples. None of the laboratories knew this. They simply report what they find in the samples. … So, BZ was present simply as a control,” Hay continued.
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201804161063626247-uk-skripal-case-toxin-positive-control-not-lethal/
Thanks, Billy, but doesn’t that contradict what another person said earlier about positive controls?
I think you mean IM, I guess he was confused and has little knowledge of environmental chemistry or chemical weapons lab analysis techniques, he hasn’t said anything since 😉
OPCW reported to be in Douma
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/17/603094779/russia-chemical-weapons-inspectors-will-be-allowed-access-to-syrian-site
@Mary Paul, if you ask questions and people take the trouble to reply, the least you could do is to acknowledge their attempts to help you, otherwise it is unlikely they will bother to respond in future and you might as well be talking to yourself.
I’m sorry. I thought the debate was still ongoing. I have not seen a specific reply to my question. Did I miss something?
BZ lasts longer than Novichok, but this seems irrelevant now given the OPCW statement on BZ/or BZ precursor being only in the positive control sample.
The Wall Street Journal reports:
– Israel Conferred With U.S. on Strike in Syria to Target Iranian War Gear
https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-conferred-with-u-s-on-strike-in-syria-to-target-iranian-war-gear-1524001066
There is how they make it – report a chemical attack, strike and let others strike, still no evidence.
Anyway, how do you attach a liquid to a doorknob in the rain. Anyone?
Where are the new generation of Fisks and Pilgers? Why do news editors not hang their head in shame? They no longer even bother to cover the reality that, not only do they not ask difficult questions, they simply no longer question. So many choked when Bush said “if you’re not with us, you’re against us..” The Neocons have done a fine job in ensuring the news editors of today are very much with them.
The neocons own all of the major news outlets and their staff. Fisk being published by the Independent is a hangover from earlier days and is an exception. Anyway, the MSM are now getting stuck into him. How often do you see Pilger in the MSM.
Fisk Puts to Test the Free-Press Myth in Douma
Jonathan Cook / April 18th, 2018
‘But the content of what he reported was incendiary. Just a few days after the US, UK and France had bombed Syria, in violation of all principles of international law, on the grounds that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons in Douma, Fisk interviewed a doctor at the clinic where the victims were treated. The doctor said no chemical attack occurred. The video footage from last week was genuine, the doctor added, but it showed civilians who had inhaled dust after a Syrian bombing attack, not gas.
Fisk’s account is clearly honest about what he was told. And the doctor’s account clearly is plausible – it could fit what the video shows. So, whether right or wrong, it is a vital piece of the jigsaw as we, ordinary citizens, decide whether our governments were justified – before United Nations inspectors had even arrived – in acts of aggression against another sovereign nation, and whether, in the case of the UK, Theresa May was entitled to act without reference to parliament. These are matters Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the UK’s opposition Labour party, has been trying to raise in the face of a solid media consensus in favour of bombing.’
https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/04/__trashed-3/
http://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/syria/documents/East_Ghouta_SitRep_12_April_final.pdf?ua=1
Why did BBC give prominence to reports made to WHO representatives some time after the event while apparently ignoring WHO report on the WHO website at
East Ghouta UPDATE Issue 13 for the period 5 to 12 April 2018 which reports the incident but DOES NOT MENTION CHEMICAL WEAPONS use? See copy link above and the incident is under “SITUATION”
The report seems to come from nearer the scene than the later reports of 500 injured..
or a meringue?
I’m intrigued by the fact that SOHR have gone off-piste on this.
We seek the truth ,and uncover the hidden agenda , and people behind the falsehood
The integrity of your work speaks for itself. Thank you.
Russian journalist Eugeniy Poddubniy (who is now in Douma and who interviewed the ‘survived’ boy Hassan Diab) says the author of photos of ‘chemical attack’ is Halil el-Abdullah.
I’ve just googled the name ‘Halil el-Abdullah’ and it is connected with Turkish Anodolu Agency.
I tried to find when the first pictures of chemical attack appeared on the web and what are they.
The earliest link is – stockinfo.us/tag/halil-el-abdullah – I’ve just made a screenshot
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ycCmi0tCocjJ2nFD29Kq5hJwVD_Wsb0A/view?usp=sharing
The link will not open, but google somehow shows it in result page.
So I tried to find whom this domain stockinfo.us belongs to. WHOIS service says that:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D0F0MlIxaDh8zgByEB9Btx97U1mDIJYm/view?usp=sharing
I want to know who is that person Halil el-Abdullah is? Is he a real person? Is it difficult to take his camera and check raw images? Where is this person? Shouldn’t he wait in Douma and meet OPCW inspectors?
the owner of the site must be
http://www.powerprofiles.com/profile/00005148722273/WEB+PLUS+INC-ABERDEEN-SD-%28605%29+229-0307
I hope this company could help with finding out who and when uploaded photos of chemical attack
German public TV ZDF says the Douma attack was staged by the jihadists.
“The scene of the attack, which allegedly took place on April 7, was in fact the “command post” of a local Islamist group, the reporter said, citing the witnesses he was able to speak to at the refugee camp…. according to the locals, the militants brought canisters containing chlorine to the area and “actually waited for the Syrian Air Force to bomb the place, which was of particular interest for them.”
As the Syrian forces eventually struck the place, which was apparently a high-priority military target, the chlorine canisters exploded. The locals also told Gack that it is not the first such provocation in Douma that was staged by the militants.
According to other witness accounts, the militants deliberately exposed people to chemical agents during what they called “training exercises” then filmed it and later presented as an “evidence” of the alleged chemical attack in Douma.
The reporter then said he could not verify the people’s statements and cannot say if they are all true but called them quite “convincing””
Interview in German:
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute-19-uhr/videos/zitat-sgs-gack-syrien-100.html
Article:
https://www.rt.com/news/424832-douma-attack-german-media/