I am off now to Glasgow for a rally for Independence – which might give some indication of how ready the movement are for renewing the struggle in earnest. You should be able to follow events live on Independence Live. I am speaking at Glasgow Green at 1.15, which is pretty early so don’t dawdle on the march.
My technique on demonstrations is to start at the front, nip in to the first pub, quick pint, work my way to the front again and repeat.
I wish I could join you.
Hi Craig I admire the work you do and have been following you myself for a while now. What I can’t understand and would maybe like to see you write about this to help me understand, but as a Scot who voted yes in last referendum, how can I vote for independence when Scotland sees it’s future firmly within the EU? This to me makes no sense. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Jay, Ask him in pub 6 about Catalonia.
I have the same issue. I want independence for Scotland and soon (getting on now and am worried, at this rate, that I won’t be around to see it). However, the conflation of independence for Scotland with being a member of the EU is a real bind, and a big mistake. Yes I would still vote for independence, this is political and economic priority number 1, but with a sense of grief at the same time. Really, in or out of the EU needs to be decided by referendum *after* independence is won. Extremely unhappy with the SNP on this score. Not happy at all.
Craig used be in favour of the EU, as I was many years ago. But he changed his mind in October of 2017 and withdrew his support of being in the EU. Wise man. Blog article can be seen here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/10/obliged-reconsider-support-european-union/
As Craig correctly points out in that article the EU, in the beginning, did bring many benefits for the everyday peoples of the EU but it morphed over time into a neo-liberal club and f*ck the people. I just saw this several years before Craig spotted what had come to pass.
However, despite that article, Craig hasn’t written anything on the conflation of independence with membership of the EU — and I really think that is an article Craig should write now that his stance has changed. I’d find that interesting I’m sure.
I don’t see any contradictions between the two. Despite its flaws, membership along Iceland or Norway lines would give us far more benefits than handicaps. For small nations like Scotland the plusses are far greater.
Norway and Iceland are not full members of the EU:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations
Neither of the two countries have popular public support for becoming full members of the EU, so their governments keep kicking the can down the road. Hardly surprising given the corrupt organisation that the EU has morphed into. People of the countries aren’t fools.
As to the supposed popular support for full membership of the EU for Scotland which the recent EU referendum revealed I wouldn’t be so sure that the result Scotland produced is reflective of the true state of public opinion in Scotland on the matter. For the EU referendum I voted to remain in the EU — even though I am not in favour of remaining in the EU. Why did I vote that way? Simple, I thought that England would vote out and if the vote in Scotland were to remain then that would polarise the difference between the two countries and would lead to an earlier second Scottish Independence referendum. So my vote was entirely tactical. I know from discussion with friends that I wasn’t the only one who voted on the EU in that way.
To restate, I really do think that the next referendum on Scottish Independence should be about just that and no conflation of any kind should be done on how we would relate to the EU in an independent Scotland. That discussion, and I would think referendum, on that matter should be held at a later date, after independence has been achieved.
I know they are not full members, but that is hardly the point, which is that EU or EEA membership would be a good thing for Scotland post independence. The rhetoric is feeble stuff.
‘Morphed into’, Peter? Our politicians allowed the EU institutions to which they send unaccountable and unelected members to, to get into this state of affairs and only after a right wing cabal of Tories, and Lib Dems speed dater’s sitting in the corner abstaining, try to emulate some jumped up fascist UKIP drive, are we in this state of denial.
To say that any of our politicians did anything to modernise and or change the EU for the better is a lie, they all took the Euro’s and they all will receive generous pensions from the entity they now so despise and call undemocratic, until they die.
@Ian “For small nations like Scotland the plusses are far greater.” Tell that to Ireland and Greece.
Thanks Peter, like you not happy with Nicola Sturgeon over “her” EU stance. Thanks also for the link.
Hello Peter, I too have had some second thoughts about the EU recently. I’ve been a strong Remain supporter, but when Verhofstadt ranted on about supporting the bombing of Syria, without real evidence, not to mention the Srikpal issue, I had to think again. Germany has consistently been the calmer and more measured state; ironically it was Russia and Germany that should have been opposing each other, but both are the voice of reason.
Yes, to me too the EU gets murkier by the day.
The Monsanto merger with Bayer, a German company, doesn’t look too good. DW Documentaries had a documentary on this subject a little while back but now the documentary has vanished from the DW Documentary’s YouTube channel. Skulduggery going on there I think. Someone somewhere must have demanded that the video got pulled out — meet the new boss, Bayer, same as the old boss, Monstanto — now pull that video. Corruption all round.
You can’t blame the EU for the Skripal poisoning or the Syrian attacks. Both were initiated by the UK. The UK’s allies were forced to show a minimal degree of solidarity with the UK.
Once the UK leaves, the the neocon forces in the EU will be weakening. The problem is the UK not the EU.
The EU is build on consensus, which means that the voice of neocon states like the UK has to be taken into consideration. Like in a true democracy, we have to find a consensus between all parties. The UK’s policy is based on the “divide and rule” strategy of the empire.
The EU is the only realistic alternative to imperialism. For Corbyn to say he wants to leave Nato is neither here nor there. It won’t happen. And we all know it. The only way to overcome this aggressive military alliance is by building an independent European defenses under the PESCO program of the EU. It won’t happen overnight, but unless the imperialists find a way of dividing Europe once again, it will happen gradually. That is certain.
I’m afraid, Peter N, that you won’t see independence for Scotland in your lifetime, nor will your grandchildren.
And the reason for that is Brexit.
The remain campaign never in their worst nightmares imagined that the UK populace would vote for Brexit, so they set the threshold at 50% + 1, a simple majority of those who voted, rather than those eligible to vote.
I guess they thought it would just run according to the precedent set by IndyRef; a combination of “united together” love-bombing and “Project Fear” would help maintain the status quo.
But in the wake of the outcome of the Brexit referendum, the remainiac losers – like the SNP – went bananas, saying that significant constitutional changes like Brexit should require more than a simple majority of those that voted. But in their clamour, they didn’t think through the downstream impact of their rantings.
So i’m afraid, IndyRef2 will need a super-majority to achieve independence, and unfortunately there is no longer the political momentum in Scotland to achieve that. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have shot their bolt, and it will take probably 30 years not only to rebuild it, but to increase it’s strength.
BTW the same reasoning applies – mutatis mutandis – to (the country of my birth) Northern Ireland. It will require a super-majority to achieve United Ireland, and realistically the votes aren’t there for even a simple majority. There are many “nationalists” in NI who publicly decry the “brits”, but they know which side their bread is buttered on economically, and will express a different opinion in the privacy of the ballot box.
It will require a super-majority to achieve United Ireland
No, the statutory provision for the poll already exists: see s1(2) Northern Ireland Act 1998
the votes aren’t there for even a simple majority.
If we leave the EU, then subsidies to NI are likely to reduce substantially because of the fall in our national income + all the extra costs incurred in becoming a “third country”. If so, we may find there are enough “unionists” that want to butter their bread with Kerrygold.☘
Ok sentinel, i’ll bite. Run your financials by me.
@F U B
National Income
One percent fall in growth requires an extra £14 billion in borrowing. 2.1% fall is forecast, assuming we stay in the EEA (Norway option). That has been ruled out, so we now face a 3.5% hit; although HM Treasury using the same model arrived at 6% (“severe shock” scenario).
Extra costs
Customs infrastructure such as buildings, lorry parks, IT systems, and officers. We are planning to duplicate the functions of some EU agencies such as REACH. Did you read about the Galileo GPS dispute a few days ago? HMG are considering developing our own GPS system. Very expensive.
EU27 sellers to the UK will no longer have to charge VAT because we will be a “third country”. Misdeclarations of value are widespread; the UK does not check every package because it would cause huge delays. (I am sure some readers will have fallen foul of a spot check and been presented with a VAT charge + Royal Mail’s handling fee by their postman.) Consequently the EU27 gain a huge competitive advantage. But if we did start checking every EU27 package — where would be store them all prior to inspection? — then, under WTO commitments, we have to do the same for all other countries such as the USA.
Please consider our smaller exporters: additional red tape + time expended to provide five copies of invoice + mfr’s declaration + £25 customs clearance fee per shipment. So a formerly profitable £200 order now becomes a loss-maker. Plus, prohibited to charge VAT at 0% to EU buyers that are VAT registered.
Sources: Brexit Preparedness notices, CBI, FT, HM Treasury, IFS, NAO, NIESR, OBR, OECD, http://www.taxresearch.org.uk
@sentinel, for some reason there isn’t a reply button on your comment responding to my request for your financial analysis. So I’m having to reply to your earlier comment.
Thanks for the stuff you sent, but it doesn’t address the issue under discussion; whether the “nationalists” in NI will actually vote for a United Ireland.
I thought you were going to provide the economic case why they – and according to your view “unionists” too – would vote for a United Ireland.
I personally can’t see how ROI could afford a United Ireland, given that ROI would have to pony up the £19B per annum support which NI is currently receiving from (English) taxpayers, while simultaneously having to meet the new reality of being a substantial nett contributor to EU post-Brexit.
And then there are the more tangible and significant differences between the Healthcare/Social Security largesse of HMG compared to that of ROI.
I don’t see it adding up. But, in the words of Joan Armatrading, i’m open to persuasion.
One battle at a time.
At present, EFTA would probably my preference.
Once we have a Scottish Parliament, for the Sovereign people of Scotland, we can address many of the unresolved matters as the people dictate.
I agree, one battle at a time.
” Hardly surprising given the corrupt organisation that the EU has morphed into.”
So you’re a Brexit troll, basically, with the same ideas as the Honourable Member for the 17th century, but transposed into Scottish independence. I notice you call the EU a “neo-liberal club”, in spite of the fact that the EU is known as a regulatory organisation, whose rules the neo-liberal Brexiters protest against. Isolationism is very nice as an idea, but not very realistic today. How is Scotland to make its living if it cuts itself off, as indeed the hard Brexiters also plan?
The consequence of Scexit, like for Catalonia, will be integration of smaller units into the European world, whatever the precise relationship to the EU. Everyone maintaining stoutly that they’re independent, while actually joining in under a subterfuge, because the EU is the main functional organisation, necessary for keeping the economy going, and isolationism doesn’t work. Doesn’t work in the sense that Scotland doesn’t want to go back to subsistence crofting. I’m all for Scottish independence, Westminster is a pain, but the inevitable result is going to be integration into the EU in one way or another as a minor region.
The only way for small states to defend their independence is by joining a Union to defend their common interest against external imperialist powers, which we know only too well do exist.
That is what the HRE achieved for nearly 1,000 years. It guaranteed the sovereignty of numerous small political entities while providing a common realm for the economy and culture to prosper.
The reason why Trump wants to destroy the EU is obvious. In this world, only the EU can stand up to the US economically. Without the EU, Washington will impose it’s will on each country separately. With the EU, it can’t do that.
I’m not Scottish but the answer is fairly obvious – the EU is a looser federation of nations than the UK.
Inependence first, everything else is tomorrows worry
The Scottish economist Mark Blyth has on a number of occasions bought up the folly of ditching the endless austerity of Westminster for the never ending austerity of neoliberal Brussels/Frankfurt (or as he put it “the warm embrace of Dr. Schäuble”.)
The EU is a busted flush that has lost credibility. The people of Greece know all about this.
Good points.
Yet the people of Greece don’t want to leave the Euro or the EU. They don’t like either, but they reluctantly realise that the alternatives are far worse. I expect the UK will end up in the same boat where many leavers don’t like the EU, but don’t want to crash out with no trading arrangements at all. If we do end up crashing out that will make the point even stronger. Anyway, it looks like things are going to hotten up in the coming week.
You are voting for the electorate of this country to have the power to make it’s own decisions rather than have dictated by a country 10 x it’s size. Nobody will get everything they want on the day of independence but we will have the power to determine the future. If the majority want to stay in the EU and you want to leave then make your case and persuade them. The wishes of the majority in Scotland are at the moment irrelevant. The EU vote is one of the most brazen examples of this whichever way you voted. As if continually having your country run by politicians you never voted for wasn’t bad enough.
the EU doesn’t run other countries or dictate to them in anything like the way Westminster does. A totally false equivalence. There are huge benefits for small nations like Scotland in being part of the EU.
If an independent scottish economy within europe entered recession do you think for a single second either germany or france would allow interest rate changes to the euro in order to help us out?
No. Didn’t think so.
A whole raft of assumptions and hypotheticals there. Thought so.
Neither would the bank of England
Excellent coverage on Livestream; it’s a massive, uplifting demonstration.
No one else commenting here; I must be the only one not in Glasgow.
Sorry Jay, I hadn’t seen your comment when I posted.
Great technique, even though you need a considerable amount of people to find yourself suitably at the end of the demo by the end of your pint, walk up again to the front, and so on.
I personally advocate demos as an excellent way to get a bit of exercise and fresh air. One can even exercise one’s arms by waving a flag or carrying a placard. Which does not rule out the pint(s) in any way, of course. We’re civilized.
If anyone is interested, Ree-Smog is being interviewed by Craig’s interrogator and tormentor, Ms Kay Burley at 2.30 on Sky News. Has he any ambitions to be PM? No. Does he support May? Yes, wholeheartedly…..etc etc.
Burley is all over the media since she acquired her Press Club award. The Times carries a puff piece:
‘Kay Burley on facelifts, diamond belly piercings, three decades at Sky and her reputation as the toughest woman on TV
She is the 57-year-old news anchor who thrives on controversy. Hurrah for the woman known as the ‘high-heeled hellcat from Hounslow’, says Polly Vernon’
paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kay-burley-on-facelifts-diamond-belly-piercings-three-decades-at-sky-and-her-reputation-as-the-toughest-woman-on-tv-gdc6lkxlk
You can just see on there that she goes off with her BF at midnight from Piers Morgan’s Christmas party to dance in Soho. What a girl! He is a pilot, aged 30 and tweets about her to order.
He puffs her up even more. So pathetic what these people will do for publicity.
https://twitter.com/JonnyPilot/status/992702845077082113
That 2.30 thing was a trailer. The actual interview is at 6.30 tonight. Why the big build up for Jacob. Is he Sky’s poster boy to replace Theresa?
Think that, with regards to Kay Burley, they’re confusing ‘tough’ with ignorant! But never let facts get in the way of Murdoch/Sky/MSM, pap!
There is no end to her talents (and the skill of her agent). She is on Marr this morning with Platell and Hazarika, reviewing the ‘papers’.
#marr papers
Pat Oddy @rossaverde · 12m12 minutes ago
I thought this was a review of the papers not the Kay Burley show #Marr
I’m Alright Jack – Every Man For Himself @IamalrightJack · 17m17 minutes ago
#Marr So we have three Tories reading the papers – do the BBC think we are all stupid? We all know Ayesha Hazarika is Blairite – Agree RT
Excellent coverage on the Livestream. 2.5 miles. You should take half a hour!
http://independencelive.net/about
For folks that can’t find the LiveStream it’s actually being shown at this address:
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/AUOBGlasgowMay18
More like Marching For Armageddon.
You watch too much television.
If push ever comes to shove, the English fascists will prove they are far worse than the Spanish ones. And it won’t be on anyone’s tv.
So, what’s your recipe for escaping from said fascists (and I agree that they are)? Just don’t fight them and hope they don’t come for you? That didn’t work to well in 30’s Germany.
So what would YOU do next?
I certainly would concentrate on disarming the American ones, as they are behind the whole strategic endeavor. Raise hell when Trump comes, and ignore the royal marriage. Picket any American ships visiting Scotland, and demonstrate against anything backed by NATO.Start complainming about the likelihood of a Scottish nuclear winter, thanks to more Yank covert operations in Iceland to cause earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Attack everything involving MI5 eavesdropping and MI6 domestic kiilings and threats. Demand previous cover ups result in independent inquiries.
And, of course, do everything you can do politically to denounce the US domination of the UK by your voting, raising demonstrations, writing letters to one and all, especially about institutions, facilities, operations and residents, which only serve American interests.
@Trowbridge H. Ford
Great manifesto. Agree –mutatis mutandis– wholeheartedly.
The problem with doing all that over here is that people would have you down as a loon.
What, no snipers in Glasgow to-day. Only on here!
I agree.
More like Marching to AVOID Armagedon
Tell it to the Catalans!
Tell ell it to the Catalans, the Basques and the iRA!
So, marches and civil action to support your agenda, which I don’t disagree with but looks much more difficult than Scottish independence, but friendly demos for independence are leading to Armageddon? Get your head out of your self regarding arse.
As a relatively new resident in Scotland I am with you in spirit. The best chance for independence is that the Tory government alienates the majority. They have never supported devolution because they know they will never get a majority in Scotland. The last time they had a majority of MPs was in 1955 and with PR in the Scottish Parliament they will never have a majority there either. They kept quiet before the referendum but have shown their true colours since – English votes for English laws on the morning after the result. They’ve seen their chance with Brexit and the power grab and the refusal to allow any real role for Edinburgh. The idea that the powers taken will be ‘temporary’ and disappear after 7 years is a joke. Let’s hope that when the impact of London’s policy becomes clear the momentum for independence becomes unstoppable.
SNP MPs should cut a deal with May and enable her to ditch the DUP and achieve the majority she craves — all for the teensy-weensy price of IndyRef2, or Scotchit2.0 as it is known South of the border.
Ensuring the poll is open to voters in the Disputed Lands will fulfil .the Scottish heart’s desire.
Will Craig be too sloshed to grasp this? Probably. And then there’s always Krankie. Put not your faith in Quisling Sturgeon.
The Scots are Marchig for Independence.
The French are marching against Macron.
Anti-Macron protesters march in Paris against labor law change https://www.rt.com/news/425927-france-protest-paris-live/
The Russians are protesting against Putin.
The English. Zilch.
Many are belting down the motorways to the coasts. Hope all the A&Es are well manned with trained staff and that there are enough beds on the wards just in case any of them come to grief and need the NHS today. Probably OK for now but in five or ten years’ time, they will need their health insurance policy numbers or their credit cards.
If you think a majority of Russians are anti-Putin you are off with the fairies. Russians know what neocon looting feels like and the 1990s was not pretty. Putin has defended Russia against foreign raiders and most Russians respect him for that……and vote him back into power with regularity…..
Hello Craig,
Would you be surprised if I told you that there is no mention of the Scottish independence rally on pretty much any British New media sources. I suppose I should get used to it after Srikpal, Syria and Fisk and not to mention the Local Elections – Reported as a failure despite being the Best result since 1971. I must admit that it’s the first time I’ve witnessed a level of ‘auto-censorship’ by the press comparable to Turkey and the Erdoğan regime.
“Would you be surprised if I told you that there is no mention of the Scottish independence rally on pretty much any British New media sources”
or any big rally that’s happened in recent times.
Fantastic turn out today some say 40,000+ in attendance, well done to all who made an appearance AUOB has seen the demo’s go from strength to strength in numbers attending.
There have been calls for the grass roots movement to lead the next indy ref instead of the SNP government. It might be a good idea as the SNP are not palatable to everyone, who seeks independence, or to those dithering whether to vote yes or not next time around.
It might be s good idea also because the SNP don’t seem to give a fuck about independence. Did any of them even turn up today?
Sturgeon has destroyed the SNP and independence movement. If she cared about it she would resign today.
And yet it’s easy to imagine the SNP leading the independence movement. Can you imagine the power they would have if they stopped worrying about their jobs and really nurtured and cultivated the grassroots instead of shunning it? Can you imagine how popular they’d be right now if they really argued for independence?
It’s so peculiar — it’s mind bogglingly peculiar in fact — that Scotland actually doesn’t even have a party that is arguing for independence. And I mean really arguing for it, not with both arms tied up it’s back, as the SNP used to.
We haven’t even heard the argument put together in its entirety. Not ever. That argument would include everything, from Syria to food banks, Grenfell to Trident, not to mention the ridiculous royals and much more. Britain has been hijacked by a team of cruel, perverted, sociopaths and nobody says a thing about it. That’s the argument for independence and we haven’t heard it from anyone.
Is this not the way of most Independence movements and their eventual success?
Here’s a must-read article about Bibi, who has been on the march 20 years:
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bibis-information-warfare-operation-against-america/
Thanks bj. Lest we forget.
http://nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/policy/israeli-nuclear-policy/steinbach_israeli_program.pdf
Ah yes, “independence”, the policy the Scottish people have already rejected.
45% didn’t reject it. And since the other 55% were lied to, threatened, bullied, and systematically manipulated by a maninstream media (led by the BBC) that was around 99% anti-independence, we will never know what the majority of Scottish people think.
If you look into how different demographic and social groups voted, it’s pretty interesting though. Something like 85% of English people and those from the rest of the U.K. living in Scotland voted against independence. Around 70% of over 65 year olds, fearful of losing their pensions, as was threatened, voted to remain in the U.K.
We don’t have data on how groups of different levels of intelligence voted but I just know that thick people — those with little or no education — probably voted for the Union too in high numbers. Let’s be honest, you’d need to be pretty thick to let a clique of war-mongering paedophilic sociopaths run and exploit your country.
Not sure about the “paedophilic” part, but most of our warmongering sociopaths have been Scottish. You can hate on the English Scots all you like with your blood and soil Scottish nationalism, but you’re quite happy to take them on-board when they support your aims. Craig is an Englishman who moved to Scotland to vote, after all.
You claim that Scotland would have voted for independence had it not been for the media scaring you. I disagree. This country had almost the entire media, corporate and political class against it when it voted to leave the EU. You either want your independence or you do not. You don’t see something on the BBC about how you may be a bit poorer and then change your mind.
And calling those you are supposed to be winning over “thick” (the exact word that Craig used, along with “evil”, after the results came in) is ill-advised, given that it was the Yes side that failed miserably to put forward a credible and costed economic case for independence, and still can’t answer basic questions like “How are you going to be independent within the EU?”.
“Blood and Soil Scottish Nationalism”
that comment just shows you know he haw about the Scottish independence movement. the only Blood And Soil types within the UK are the Britnats.
away and suckle of their fascist teet, your nothing more than a bullied sheep Anon1, am I am tired of arguing with your types, there is no saving you…
“. . . the only Blood And Soil types within the UK are the Britnats.”
Of which Anon1 is one.
“This country had almost the entire media, corporate and political class against it when it voted to leave the EU…”
Utter lies that I won’t even grace with a serious response. Suffice to say that umpteen high ranking Tories supported Brexit, as did many newspapers, they played the race card on front pages, and charlatans like Nigel were over represented in just about every political tv show going back years.
One more thing. The vast majority of those who fell for the suicidal Brexit lies were thick. They still are if they think it will improve their lives. I’m under no obligation to be courteous to imbeciles.
“You claim that Scotland would have voted for independence had it not been for the media scaring you. ”
If Project Fear was so effective in Scotland, how come it backfired so badly in the Brexit vote? In the two votes we had exactly the same lies trotted out by Project Fear, by the same people, basically the British Establishment and aimed at the same people, the middle classes, but in one case it produced the desired result and in the other case it didn’t.
Trying to convince people of your own viewpoint is part and parcel of a democratic process.
Sounds like you’re a bit ill at ease with all this marching and demonstrating.
Are you sure you really, absolutely, no doubt about it want to live in a democracy?
‘Diamonds in the Cesspool’ – Scottish independence can help drain the cesspool – Meanwhile let us remind ourselves of the pit we are all trapped in… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dMcd1S7FsM
Well done to all of those who were able to get to Glasgow to march. I am appalled by what is happening in the UK just now. I am appalled by the callousness, the lies, the smears, the manipulation by the media and the very real threats to free speech. I am not given to hysteria, or beliefs in conspiracy theories, but I do think that there is a very real plot afoot to undermine the Scottish Parliament and fear greatly that the crumbs of power we have gained, and generations have fought for, are going to be gobbled up by the monster that is the current Westminster government. We, in Scotland, are being treated with utter contempt.
I have two questions which are bothering me which some you might be able to help with. The first is: where are the Scottish constiutional lawyers who might advise us about where we really stand with regard to the Act of Union? If we are ‘sovereign’ could we simply disolve the Union? The second: what is it with some people who are liberal, and informed, and open-minded about so much, who, as soon as independence is mentioned desert all their beliefs and vilify those who think Scotland might be better than ‘ok’ if the union was disolved?
A final thought – I think the SNP do need to take into the account that there are those who could be brought on board if there were some serious discussions about what sort of arrangement we might have with Europe. Full membership of the EU seems a contradiction to them – and no amount of talk about the sovereignty remaining with the nations of the EU is going to convince them. I am not sure that it entirely convinces me … but it is very much better than the future as it currently looks post Brexit.
Westminster will only take you seriously if you show that you’re willing to use force the way Sinn Fein did in 1919-22.
Seriously as in “bring military might upon you”. I’m not sure that is sensible, and that’s not meant rhetorically: I think, in the end, non-violent –though politically forceful– transitions may work best and be most durable.
There are circumstances though where baseball bats are warranted.
There was a limit to how much force Britain could use against Ireland because there are so many Irish in America. There are also many Scots in America.
Alternatively you could have a peaceful referendum and actually vote “yes”.
But were “blood and Soil” types, according to you Anon1, thought fascists loved a good fight….
but then again, when millions are murdered building and maintaining an empire under the concept of Racial superiority, it’s okay as long as it’s done under the Butchers Apron (Union Jack) then it’s just bring civilisation to the savages isn’t it…
your Hypocrisy makes me sick Anon1.
Two good questions which I’m happy to stab at, Grace.
Question 1 is quite easy. Scotland is basically a neo-colony and as is typical in a neo-colony it is highly unlikely that someone who is qualified in constitutional law is going to stick his or her neck out — basically destroying their career in the process — and tell the truth of the UK constitutional framework.
The truth,of course, is plain for all to see. The country was sold down the river by a very small clique of nobles who personally gained by the transaction, despite the protests and reservations of the majority. However, it logically follows that a country that enters into an international agreement can if it chooses withdraw from that agreement. No aspect of international law to my knowledge refutes or stands against that.
Moreover, all that aside, the principle of self determination permits any recognised country to govern itself and enter into relations with others as it chooses too.
The legal case is clearcut, then, it’s kids’s stuff, but you will struggle to find any qualified lawyer who is willing to discuss it honestly in Scotland or the UK because it is guaranteed to more or less destroy their career.
In a neo-colony it is important that everyone appears to be acting freely without direct influence from the colonial masters who sit in the background but we all know how indirect influence through bribes and punishments are brought to bear on politicians and others in a relationship best described as coercive. About 90% of the world is exploited and manipulated by these indirect means.
On question 2, you simply need to factor in the propensity of leftists and liberals to be fake, selfish, ego-centric, shallow bastards. In my experience about 99% of them are. They are leftist and liberal as a sort of fashion statement. If something — like Scottish independence — doesn’t serve to inflate their egos, bring any reward, or line their pockets, it is filed under ‘underserving poor’.
Watch closely as the Corbyn fans ditch one principle and cause after another. Without skipping a beat, they drop the emphasis on principle and everything is sacrificed at the altar of winning power — “no good being a protest party without power”, goes the argument, “and if that means ditching principles then so be it…”
This process is well underway. You now have a supposedly radical leftist party that basically declared war against poor people (‘supports the government stance on the economy and the need for austerity’ in newspeak), is in favour of renewing Trident, and is happy to sit on its hands when it comes to things like bombing Syria. I actually have no idea what Corbyn and Labour stand for, and I mean that.
well Said Hatuey.
Al Jazeera done a three part documentary about how France turned its west African colonies in to pseudo independent “neo-colonies”, (with US blessing).
pretty much reinforces what you just said
https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2013/08/201387113131914906.html
Good coverage on RT.
Thousands take to streets of Glasgow for Scottish independence march (PHOTOS)
https://www.rt.com/uk/425926-scotland-pro-independence-march/
Also on RT that dear man John Pilger. He is now 78. I can’t bear the thought of us ever losing him and his voice and wisdom.
John Pilger special – Beyond the headlines on Syria, Salisbury, Yemen & North Korea (E605)
Published time: 5 May 2018
We speak to the legendary journalist and filmmaker John Pilger about the events behind the mainstream media headlines on Syria, Salisbury, Yemen and the Korean peninsula.
LIKE
Going Underground http://fb.me/GoingUndergroundRT
FOLLOW
Going Underground https://www.youtube.com/user/GoingUndergroundRT
Going Underground on Twitter http://twitter.com/Underground_RT
Afshin Rattansi on Twitter http://twitter.com/AfshinRattansi
https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/425923-filmmaker-syria-salisbury-yemen/
Thank you. It serendipitously brought me the article by Michael Hudson, lauded by Jeffrey St.Clair, which is here:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/05/04/creating-wealth-through-debt-the-wests-finance-capitalist-road/
Given the way Brexit is going, I think Scottish independence is the only solution. England is descending slowly into neo-fascism. The corporate view is imposed, and conflicting views cut off. The Brexit extremists have control, and nobody can gainsay, without being cut off, or endlessly interrupted.
Scotland is better off out, but it should be understood that it is not a cost-less departure. A future relationship to the EU is inevitable, whether in or in treaty relationship. Isolationism is not an option, other than in nationalist fantasies.
These rallies must bring it all back Craig. I remember the moment so well. The whole world was watching. The Scots had finally been given the chance to vote for fredum from those they called their colonial masters. The stars had aligned. The oil was flowing. Even children were allowed to vote. The whole world waited to hear the answer to the question: do the proud and brave people of Scotland want their independence? They already knew the answer. After centuries of oppression at the hands of their feudal overlords the Scots would finally slam down their fist and shout “Enough!” There would be a landslide. And with the whole world watching, Scotland answered: “No. No we do not want to be an independent country.” And everyone went back to what they were doing. What a monumental embarassment it was. Scotland the brave? I nearly pissed myself laughing. The whole world laughs at Scotland and always will.
Sorry to interrupt your vile racist rant but the majority of Scots born people voted for independence.
That’s right, blame it on the immigrants and then call me the racist.
Since you were being racist about Scots, I was just repudiating your comments. I do not at all blame the EU residents for voting no as we were told we would be out of the EU so who could blame them? If I was them, I also would have voted no.
He’s racist about most Kathy, and he still believes that the Indy ref. was fair and square.
Taken over from our banned local pet, haven’t you Anon 1?
nope your previous posts combined with that one made you racist.
“Scotland the brave? I nearly pissed myself laughing. The whole world laughs at Scotland and always will.”
that’s an insult directed at a nation or national group, isn’t that the definition of racist?
also you claim to be an immigrant, if you want me to show some “blood and Soil” racism, then let me.
going by your previous post, your English, now living in Scotland? (please correct me if I am wrong)
if the above is correct, you are not an “immigrant”, you are technically an “invader”.
English people are the Angle-Saxons, who were Germanic tribes (know you guys don’t like being reminded about that, funny because it was a source of pride over the “Savage” Celts pre-WW1) who invaded (not invited or came looking for work) and took over the best farm land in the country, pushing the Celtic peoples basically into the hills, when the Romans left. since then you have tried to go “native” but calling yourselves British (the real Britons were Celts who spoke a variant of Welsh by the way).
So on that basis, the Scots , Irish and Welsh should have a claim to the whole of the UK.
However that is not what I want, I realise that happened a long time ago and just want what is best now, and don’t want to punish or hate people who’s ancestors invaded around 600 AD because that is just stupid.
just as stupid as your comments on this blog.
Hardly an accurate scholarly account of the ‘Adventus Saxonum’, OneEye!
Try harder next time.
**
Mochyn69
Sorry that’s up to your standards, bit hard to condense history into a blog post, would you like to point out the in-accurate bits,happy to provide evidence to support what I said above.
Thanks
That should convince a few more to vote for independence next time ’round!
Fingers crossed.
Anon1, I’d rather stand on the losing side amongst deluded fools than stand on the winning side next to you and the rancid weirdos who run England. There isn’t a country in the world that isn’t sick of your seedy country and its money-grubbing ways.
As dark little England fights to prolonge its miserable death, Scotland is preparing for its re-birth like a bright new star. One light goes out and another begins to shine. Deal with it.
that’s more like it, slag off the ones responsible instead of the entire population of England. You’ve changed man… Now I can agree with you.
I haven’t changed. Your understanding of me has.
Watched the live stream today. Thanks for a great, rousing speech Craig.
Absolutely amazing if the recently stated 91000 marchers is true. Even the lower estimates are still pretty awesome.
Congratulations Craig on an inspiring speech. It was perfectly pitched to today’s event i.e. the first blast of the trumpet against the monstrous regiment of Tories. Somebody’s got to do it. The pause to acknowledge the arrival of the bikers for YES was also good IMO.
I don’t normally do marching but decided to make an exception today because I feel we are approaching a turning point and everyone will have to choose, “Which side are you on?”
I’m on the side of the people, as Thomas Muir once said. It is a good cause. Eventually, it will prevail.
I missed the speeches but saw the march on Livestream. Are there any videos of the speeches?
An outsider’s point of view: Born in England to Scottish parents, moved to Australia, became citizen of Australia without denouncing UK citizenship, so now a dual citizen…
I am in favour of Scottish independance, at this point I think remaining in the EU is favourable for an Independant Scotland’s short term future for many reasons. Too many to highlight here.
Craig has outlined that Scotland doesn’t need a referendum to become independant, and I think that tack is one to seriously follow. The liars in Westminster don’t want Scottish independance, and will do anything to prevent it. The SNP has very much shown its true colours, and your representatives have shown contempt for the manifesto it was elected to follow.
I was most impressed with the turnout at Glasgow, and watched the livestream with glee. There are more marches to come, and I feel the impetus growing, and will, in short order, reach the hights of 2014. Leadership is the key, and if anything is to be learnt from Catalonia, the neocons will do anything to separate head from body. So, in essence, it is the job of the Scottish Parliament rather than those that are supposed to represent you in Westminster to proclaim the path to independance. I have not read the Union Constitution if there is one, maybe I should, but Worldwide now, Governments are defying their constitutions at will when it serves their purpose (including here in Australia).
If the will of the people is there, no amount of false reporting, rhetoric by Government, or threats, will stop that will. It is up to your organisers to promote candidates who will enact the manifesto put to them prior to election. A peaceful solution is, by far, the best. But if that is not possible, it means that either the people are not in majority in favour of independance, in which case it will never be reached, or, as history shows, there will be uprising, and independance will be forced. I wish the Scottish people all the very best…
It makes the headlines in the Grauniad/Observer today here:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/05/thousands-scottish-independence-supporters-march-through-glasgow
Not a bad piece considering. They must have locked Severin away for once.
**
thinking about it, the powers that be would probably want to promote Scottish independence to some extent, just to drum up more support for SNP to weaken the Labour Vote. If the independence movement dwindled, then SNP would die and Cons would have to bitterly fight for those seats. I’d be interested to see what localised countermeasures they are using in the seats already held by Con, to avoid losing too many votes to SNP there.
on second thoughts, I think micromanaging the pro independence pro SNP coverage would be illogical. Better to weaken the Labour vote in all seats where there is SNP representation. I expect Scotland as a whole will get good coverage of pro independence movements.
I know it is very foolish to say this in this blog but here goes. The issue of Scottish indipendence should be a completely separate issued from Brexit for U.K. But incidentally neither of them will solve any problems for the 99% leading only to further fragmentation and concerns that become more and more parochial.
If Scotland stays in union we face direct Westminster rule. Even more direct than the old pre-devo Scottish Office which at least now and again took Scotland’s interests first in defiance of the British cabinet. What is envisaged is total obliteration of Scotland with our democratic wishes overridden. The stark choice is independence or authoritarian rule. There’s no comfy middle course available now.
Your depiction of independent Scotland being parochial. Scotland is not a parish. So why would it be parochial? We are a very outward looking internationalist country.
This government will not last forever, in fact it may topple over any minute ( I hope). With Scotland in the Union, this is more likely to occur. As has been pointed out by others, a Corbyn government will probably not pursue the same line on devolution as this tyrranical tory one.
I am sorry I used the term parochial in the sense of inward looking. I am very well aware that the Scots are very international, I have myself participated in many Burns suppers in Africa!. But my meaning is that the further fragmentation of UK following the fragmentation of the EU is not really addressing the main problem of the international neoliberal system, that is our common enemy and the current British government is part of it.
It doesn’t matter a hoot, to those who seek independence if the Tory government topples today, tomorrow, or in 2021.
Corbyn or whoever then becomes PM, are temporary then what?
No independence is forever, independence it must be.
Labour’s amendments at the Second Reading this week of the EU Withdrawal Bill in the Lords would have made the Bill more compatible with the devolution settlement, but they were all withdrawn. That had to be under order by Corbyn. Welsh Labour’s capitulation to the Tories also must have been either pushed for or approved by Corbyn. The Labour Presiding Officer at Holyrood tried to stop the Continuity Bill by claiming illegality. Corbyn’s never troubled himself to defend democracy in Scotland, Wales or Catalonia.
If the Tories do succeed in disempowering Holyrood then no future Westminster Labour government will be in any hurry to restore the powers. Scotland spent decades being hoodwinked and bullied by both Labour and Tory parties as they thwarted devolution. Now after 20 years of limited devo – we still don’t have power over broadcasting ffs – Labour are gearing up to letting it go. Scotland has been held back far too long by duplicitous Westminster shits like Corbyn. It’s independence or servitude.
As for a Corbyn Labour government it’s always coming soon according to the hard left Britnats. Well Labour did lay a glove on the Tories in the English council elections…….but that’s all they did. Lay a glove on them. It was powder puff stuff.
“It was powder puff stuff”.
If you read what Craig said, he does not agree with you. I think you are too harsh on Corbyn, who has many battles ahead and wouldn’t want to open another front.it is a pity that you ROS and reel guid despise Corbyn so much, I think Craig’s view is a bit less harsh.
SA.
Corbyn is just another Westminster obstacle to Scottish independence, and although I believe he would be a better PM than May for the people of rUK, Scotland would/will be far better off controlling it’s own future through independence.
“Corbyn’s never troubled himself to defend democracy in Scotland”
“Scotland has been held back far too long by duplicitous Westminster shits like Corbyn”
This is factually incorrect. Corbyn’s voting record shows that, at least in the last 7 years, he has “generally voted for transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament”. 14 votes for, 4 against. Similar for Wales. In the past year he has voted ‘for’ 9 times, against once.
and “laying a glove on the tories” is gaining 77 seats, while tories lose 33 is it? MSM or a history of dodgy politicians has really done a number on you, or did you get this way all by yourself? Or do you just work for Maybot?
English nationalism is what give rise to Brexit.
Cheers!
Craig .. . . There was one thing wrong with your speech . . , it was too short. As Capella said you did the right thing pausing for the motor bike cavalcade. The Green was a good venue, too many people for Freedom Square. Earlier photographs show the march going down the centre of Renfield St. By the time we were there the marchers were using the pavement. Think the counter demonstrators were dumbstruck at the size of the March. All in all a great day
ps. Where were the BBC cameras?
@ Craig
‘..My technique on demonstrations is to start at the front, nip in to the first pub, quick pint, work my way to the front again and repeat.’
I tried that on a ‘Troops Out’ demo in Belfast.
Trouble was, I stayed a bit too long in the pub; when I came out, the march was way off in the distance. As I walked towards them, I approached a Land Rover, where half a dozen police and public where looking towards them. I heard one of the public say to the police, ‘Why don’t you go in and break it up?’, to which a policeman said ‘There’s too many of them’. At that point, I walked past them; very tense moment, as they had not seen me till then. Nothing was said; I continued, and eventually caught up with the march as they arrived outside a large police/army barracks.
Then they started rattling the huge metal gates. I thought, WTF? and went and sat on a wall, not wishing in the slightest to associate myself with such a provocation. It passed off without incident, thankfully.
@ Paul Barbara
if only russians were as wise as you! Yesterday’s actions in Russia ended with mass detentions. Reports were on marching in the un-sanctioned places, bringing un-sanctioned posters, breaking fencing.
Those protesters who are under 18 years were dismissed.
the EU commented immediately Russian police should better let them do what they were doing.
Do you have similar phrase in your country “don’t tell me what to do and I will not tell you to f**k off”? I’d like to know it for future use 🙂
@ Tatyana May 6, 2018 at 13:13
It wasn’t wisdom, just fear!
‘…the EU commented immediately Russian police should better let them do what they were doing….’
I wonder why the EU don’t say that to Is*ael, who deploy snipers against unarmed demonstrators.
Re the phrase, no, I can’t think of a similar one. But if I’m on a demo, and the police tell me to move on or whatever, I do know better than to tell them to f**k off!
This phrase is not for police, I’d use it towards EU’s comment. As if I am another Victoria Nuland 🙂
Russia is really big with many nations, religions and opinions, Russians are not Europeans, we haven’t long democracy history and law-respecting population. Unauthorized rally with un-sanctioned posters can easily turn into massacre right in the streets. EU better mind their own business.
It is so nice of Thorbjorn Jagland, the Secretary General of the Council of Europe, to offer help to Russia in case we want change our law towards more democratic rallies 🙂 The first aid, of course, thank you fellow Jangland ! Exactly what we need now! White Helmets are nothing compared to you!
*sarcasm mode off*
I’m so delighted to see all these marches for Independance and for Freedom in EU countries. BTW, Have you seen the ” March of Ukrainian Order” on May 2, 2018?
Does-Ukraine-have-a-Nazi-problem
https://www.quora.com/Does-Ukraine-have-a-Nazi-problem
” I’ve seen video, available on YouTube. May 2, 2018, Odessa.
They made a ‘March of the Ukrainian Order’ to celebrate May 2, 2014. Those people were going with flags along the streets, they were shouting: – Viva Ukraine, vivat heroes – One nation, one Ukraine – Death to our enemies – Ukraine is above all.
People interviewed in the streets explained what they celebrate – that 4-years ago incident demonstrated that Odessa has patriots who will protect it.
May 2, 2014 pro-russians were driven by those ‘moderate nazis’ to a building and then burnt alive. 48 victims of that incident from both sides. ”
I ask you – hey people, what’s wrong with you? Or were the BBC and CNN cameras not covering it? Don’t pretend to be busy with your another pinth, just say fascism took place in the heart of Europe. In the country that is strongly supported by U.S.A.
Waffen SS Galicia. Ukraine celebrated its anniversary on April 20, 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0JKqYu7_Ds&feature=youtu.be
Thorbjorn Jagland, the Secretary General of the Council of Europe, may be you hurry to help Ukrainians change their constitution? :-))))))) Oh. forget, it’s a rthetoric question, it’s OK guy, go have your deserved pinth.
————–
With all my respect to mr. Craig Murray and all those who take part in these discussions – May 9, 2018, Russia celebrates their Victory Day. Just remember the date and check what you see in the news.
Ukraine was my awakening. It stopped being covered in the UK about the time the burning happened because then it was going to be too difficult to continue to describe the rebels as the good guys, and Putin wasn’t falling for the trap. There were also leaks suggesting US orchestrated the start, not just backing the saintly rebels after the fact. With the west’s plan in tatters, we don’t hear about it AT ALL anymore. Anyone who reads into it, is of course a conspiracy nut.
Why do you advertise copper ornaments on here Tatyana. Do you make the items?
@Sharp Ears
My apologies, I didn’t realise I’m advertising. I’ll clear it out of auto-filling. My thoughts on putting my link were to back up I’m a real person, because I was called ‘russian troll’ and ‘bot’ and all sort of, you know.
Yes, I do make the items.
And yes, I dammit, am Russian. And, yes, I do something with my own hands to sell and have decent income for my family. It’s no shame.
The shame is European Sirs and Madams will not attend Parade on Victory Day in Moscow. May and Macron and Trump will just find another pretext to be busy enough to avoid it.
What love towards UK or France or USA should I feel, regarding my only one Granny passed away this December? You people, do you even know what a person she was? She met this War at the age of 12 and was bringing water to fields with her horse and sledge.
I could have hade at least 2 Grannies and 2 Granddaddies in my childhood. All this stuff with happy birthdays and funny gifts. I could inherit something and just not get my *something* ripped off by eforts to make a living.
You shouldn’t apologise – they’re rather nice, please keep the link in there. It’s not undue advertising (IMHO) – it’s keeping it real, and it’s good to see we’re talking to an actual person.
Don’t worry – if the Mods (or the blog host) didn’t like it, they would have said so in no uncertain terms! Keep the link in, please.
Everything aside, I am sorry for Marr. First, his stroke and now kidney cancer.
Andrew Marr to have kidney operation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44021126
Described as a ‘small operation’ I am not sure what the prognosis is likely to be.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/statistics-by-cancer-type/kidney-cancer/survival
Sharp Ears
The most common renal tumours are only locally invasive and general have a good prognosis with local removal or removal of the affected kidney.