Mike Barson, keyboard player of the great ska group Madness, had his Wikipedia entry amended by “Philip Cross” to delete his membership of Momentum and interview with The Canary.
This apparently trivial incident raises an important question. How does the “Philip Cross” Wikipedia monitoring operation work? “Cross”‘s systematic attack on Momentum and The Canary is a matter of record, and his twitter feed proves it is motivated by a visceral hatred of the anti-war movement. But how would “Cross” discover that a reference to Momentum had turned up somewhere as improbable as the page of a member of Madness?
To get this by Google just would not work – try it yourself if you don’t know it relates to Barson, to Madness, or anything about them. To do a daily Wikipedia site specific Google search for the word Momentum might get you there after hours of effort. Are there tools within Wikipedia itself that could alert “Cross” to this sort of reference being added anywhere on Wikipedia, and if so are they available to the general public?
A number of people have opined in reply to my posts that the time spent to make all of Cross’s daily edits, as per the number of keystrokes, is not great. That ignores the colossal effort that goes into research and above all monitoring of Wikipedia by the “Philip Cross” operation.
Finally, this is an excellent example of the bias of Wikipedia. The information about Barson is totally true. He is a proud member of Momentum. It is also quite interesting and an important bit of his life. But according to Wikipedia’s pro-MSM rules, “Philip Cross” can indeed delete it because the information is not from an MSM source. In the unlikely event of the Times or Telegraph ever writing about Barson’s Momentum membership, it would of course be in a hostile attack to which “Philip Cross” could then link.
I hope you are understanding the Jimmy Wales methodology by now.
So, to add to the mysteries of how “Philip Cross” works every waking hour, never takes a single day off and is followed on Twitter by few people but including half of Fleet Street, we can add the mystery of how he has omniscience of left wing references appearing in unlikely places on Wikipedia. Go figure.
Why doesn’t she meet someone from the Russian embassy and hear what they have to say or ask?
From the Russian embassy:
“23.05.2018
Embassy Press Officer comments on Yulia Skripal’s video address
We are glad to have seen Yulia Skripal alive and well. The statement she read out contains new information. However, the video shown only strengthens our concerns as to the conditions in which she is being held. Obviously, Yulia was reading a pre-written text. More than that, judging by quite a few elements, the text was a translation from English and had been initially written by a native English-speaker. The handwritten letters signed by Yulia in Russian and English confirm this impression.
With all respect for Yulia’s privacy and security, this video does not discharge the UK authorities from their obligations under Consular Conventions. The UK is obliged to give us the opportunity to speak to Yulia directly in order to make sure that she is not held against her own will and is not speaking under pressure. So far, we have every reason to suspect the opposite.”
What are the “quite a few elements” that suggest that her spoken words were translated to English from Russian? If I knew, I would be able to comment. I did notice an instance of “госпиталь” rather than “больница” for “hospital” but didn’t think it was significant in itself.
Remember that SIS and MI5 have many speakers of Russian to mother-tongue standard.
She appeared under stress at a few points during the delivery, as the officials at the embassy who are handling the affair will certainly be aware.
Notes.
1. Agree that the subject matter is artificially limited, this is a structured statement for PR purposes, not an interview as Reuters’ reference to their “reporter” strongly implies.
2. Yulia looks nervous. Anybody making a video for public consumption, especially with a famous outfit like Reuters, would be nervous, if they were not experienced.
3. Since it’s a PR exercise, the choice of venue is significant. The appearance of liberty seems an obvious artifice.
4. The snippet of Yulia saying “if it’s ok with you” is selected carefully, a thought-out choice, like every element of this carefully crafted product. So what purpose does it serve? It creates the impression that Yulia has agency, that she is doing her own thing, but politely checks with her collaborators. It’s so tightly edited one cannot know what the context really was, so much so that it could well have been sarcastic impatience, expressed by a helpless victim of abusers, the very opposite of what it suggests in this edited form.
5. The return to Russia line strikes one as another artifice, sly and clever. If she’s homesick, as one would expect, surely she would say “as soon as possible” rather than “in the long term”? In any case, this odd statement serves well to add to the impression of liberty, whilst putting the exercise of that liberty off indefinitely.
6. The signed, handwritten statement, schtick doesn’t fly. Either she’s talking freely and can be interviewed safely, or she’s an (unwilling?) agent in a PR production. In the latter case, a prepared statement is appropriate, but the way it’s presented as though she’s freely communicating is disingenuous.
This video stinks.
I found it interesting that the BBC didn’t appear to have any commentary on the video. They only had the video…. I found this odd and weird given the importance of the story….
Correction: I mean to ask what the “quite a few elements” are that suggest that her spoken words were translated to RUSSIAN from ENGLISH.
N_
She found it hard to come to terms with the thought they might have been poisoned. In other words she knew very well the spooks were lying and she didn’t believe a word of it, or at least not about Russia or novichok.
I believe you are right about the mistranslation. From what little I know of Russian it is a very delicate language. I’ve always thought that the main satisfaction liars get from lying is the enjoyment they get from getting away with it. , like the Telegraph publishing how many boots were on the ground in Libya. These Tory liars just can’t resist bragging about their carefully constructed deceit.
Is the software needed for Reply to work malicious? I’m going to stick with delayed Reply, like you, just copying and pasting the name, time and date to reference who and what I’m replying to.
I thought I heard the reply button issue was something to do with needing to update your browser. Might be worth updating your browser to see if that helps, or trying a new browser if you feel like a change. My browser is Chrome and that’s working.
If the government/’Security Services’ didn’t want to give her whereabouts away, and try to use that for either/or claiming it to be impossible for the Russian Embassy or a public Q&A to be held, that could easily be overcome by taking her in a blacked-out car to another venue for the interview.
This statement by YS is just an extra elaboration if her supposedly first statement tailored to answer the previous criticism by showing her speak and also with a prominent tracheostomy scar and in the open air.
Without overanalysing these are my observations.
1. The choice of Reuters to release this is of interest. It is obvious that it was intended to convey the message that this is an international agency and not the state run BBC. In this context it would be interesting to know whether YS had any choice in this.
2. The issuing of a written statement which is then signed in front of the camera and contains some crossing out is intended to show that this is a genuine spontaneous act and not dictated by anyone.
3.The prominence of the tracheostomy scar makes it clear that she has been in coma, intubated and sedated.
4. This was just an announcement by YS not a question and answer session. No other persons are seen in this and no interactions with others.
5. There was no reflections and no hesitations. People coming out of such a severely traumatic experience would be expected to be more spontaneously emotional, even tearful but this was all very unemotional matter of fact.
The overall impression of this stage managed event with no neutral observers is that there must be some hidden coercion. I may of course be wide off the mark here and it may all be genuine.
Any thoughts as to why someone who had apparently got a nerve agent on her hands from a gel smeared on a door handle ends up with a tracheostomy scar?
For sure if you breath in a nerve agent, then you will suffer respiratory arrest. But surely the poisoning would be completely different for someone who slowly adsorbs the agent through the skin and then is transported via the blood stream.
Sssstttttt!!! Don’t ask logical questions about HMG in action: sacrilege!
This part is OK. If you are poisoned with a nerve agent by any route you will first of all have excessive secretions and eventually end up with breathing paralysed. Either way you will need a tracheostomy.
“This part is OK. If you are poisoned with a nerve agent by any route you will first of all have excessive secretions and eventually end up with breathing paralysed.”
Why?
Acetylcholinesterase is a ubiquitous enzyme in neuronal synapses, so the route you are exposed to them would seem critical to tissues that show the most immediate and severe response.
Because the substance gets absorbed into the bloodstream and disseminated in the body where it affects any target area. I am afraid there is no problem about this part of the story.
Do you have any real world expertise to base this claim that skin and respiratory exposure to nerve agents is identical?
“Do you have any real world expertise to base this claim that skin and respiratory exposure to nerve agents is identical?”
No I personally don’t. But it is well known through scientific sources that the effects of nerve agent intoxication is the same whatever the route. The manifestations of poisoning occur much quicker when they are inhaled but may be delayed by 20-30 minutes if administered via the skin. Here is a summary from the OPCW
https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
How do we know it is a genuine trachetomy scar and not make-up to fool us? They must have wanted us to see it and believe it since it would have been easy to hide.
laguerre
May 23, 2018 at 13:44
”
“Can anyone prove a secret vote is rigged? Yes, by the result.” Yes indeed. Iran didn’t win.
You haven’t quite “got” voting in KRG. People vote tribally, or feudally. You vote for the leader you’re attached to. That is, Barzani or Talebani. Even Goran is geographically based in Sulaimaniyya. Until the Kurds get past these medieval loyalties, you won’t have democracy chez les Kurdes. ”
Sorry Laguerre I forgot what your previous handle was, but what you say contains some truth and it is mixed up with very deep seated colonial USUKIS corruption which wants to secretly suck oil revenue out of Kurdistan. Do you really think the UK and US economies would be doing so well if the Iraqi oil had not been flooding the petrol market with cheap stolen oil.
Barzani has never been anything other than a useless USUKIS stooge for stealing oil. Yes, just as in the UK and the US and France, there are medieval tribal loyalties which defy intellectual explanation. In the UK alone the majority for the thieving Tories is incompatible with our view of ourselves as a compassionate society. So let’s de-wogify your patronising use of the term medieval in relation to Iraq. Tribalism is rife in the UK.
The next problem is that much of the money Barzani and yaketi ( Talebani ) embezzle is dished out to bribe the tribes. Ouch! the comparison with the Tories is starting to be so clear as to be painful. The tribal powers gathered under the wing of the USUKIS stooges own the electoral register and thousands of superfluous names flood the electoral / payroll. Their voters can literally print out votes by walking into the polling stations and using the false names. They can do it without showing the name and without anyone asking questions.
I’m going to start crying soon because even when the UK government flooded the vote in the Scottish referendum and last UK election, still the real majority were unable to overwhelm the noddy ones from MI5.
In addition, there have been many reports during the Iraq election of the names of cities being mixed, like Halabja and a town south of Baghdad, and votes appearing in the north from the southern city of Basra. Mistakes maybe, but when 250 spurious votes get cast in a different location, which are detected because they are obvious mistakes, who knows how much invisible falsification goes on which is credible to observers, but which locals know would never represent local feeling.
In conclusion, nothing is going to get in the way of USUKIS eating Iraqi oil. USUKIS are addicted to manipulating their colonies to cream their assets. Money obesity has got so bad in these countries amongst the 1%, that even the directors of a small outfit like Carillion used to spend most of their time ring-fencing their own bonusses and pensions. They can hardly waddle their huge bank account carcases around because they are so swollen with the squeezes on wages because of austerity , and the flood of cash FROM CHEAP OIL Money laundering on a grand scale, with a thin veneer of a construction label to conceal where all the wealth is coming from.
I still can’t remember what your old handle was , but I remember your sweep-it-under-the-carpet meme.
Is sequestered Yulia’s treatment on the NHS and as a foreign national ought this to be so?
This is the least problem in this affair that is threatening world peace. I hope you agree.
If she can’t pay she should be deported, right?
She may have medical insurance; otherwise we send the bill to Mr Putin. He’s reputedly not short of a Ruble or two.
Black Rock is the leading investor in the largest US gun manufacturer.
Codepink have just attended Black Rock’s shareholders’ meeting.
From Codepink’s e-mail.
‘Friday’s shooting at Santa Fe High School marked the 22nd school shooting in 2018 – and guess who’s the leading investor in America’s largest gun manufacturer, American Outdoor Brands? BlackRock.
BlackRock, an enormous financial institution that profits from violence and war, is holding its shareholder meeting in Manhattan today. We were there.
[..]
BlackRock calls itself a socially responsible company. Really? Investing in Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Elbit, and General Dynamics is not socially responsible. Investing in civilian gun manufacturers that produce machine guns and small arms, like the guns used in school shootings, is not ethical.
In Yemen, BlackRock invests in weapons that are being used to produce the world’s worst humanitarian crisis. It rakes in billions while Yemeni children starve and die from treatable diseases caused by endless conflict. In Palestine, Blackrock invests in Elbit drones that fly constantly over Gaza. As Israel’s largest weapons company, Elbit has played a major role in all of Israel’s massacres in Gaza. As Elbit profits from Palestinians’ suffering, so too does Blackrock.’
Who pays Gideon Osborne £650k for one day’s work per week? Black Rock.
George Osborne to be paid £650,000 for working one day a week
Former chancellor declares six-figure salary for job with US fund manager BlackRock, for whom he will work 48 days a year
8 Mar 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/08/george-osborne-to-be-paid-650000-for-working-one-day-a-week-blackrock-salary
The statement in English using “Dad” seems odd to me. Papa is quite normal now in London amongst middle/upped class and presumably what she said in Russian. So why change it to dad?
And the light/camera/autocue gizmo, was that there already when Reuters arrived or was it their’s? Who was the photographer? Why not just lift screenshots?
Despite references to dates she didn’t say “Good day, today is .Monday 21 May, I am in London” or date the written statement. In Russian did she say “I came” or “I went” to the UK?
Her hair roots appear to show dyed hair “growing out”, is that consistent with the time that has passed? When was it dyed last?
Can anyone Identify the dress?
Who was the “If that is okay with you” addressed to? Was she told the photographer spoke English? I still have the thought that she thinks she is in Russia and the reference to “return to my home country” meant the UK and the embassy reference was to the British Embassy in Moscow..
Ms Skripal’s recent face time with the world will have been monitored for her body language indicating truth/lies. Dark shades are one way to deceive analysts, another is looking down to read from a bunch of papers, making no eye contact until finished, then quickly looking up and around the room to give an impression of honesty. A favourite trick taught to some who can’t avoid a public appearance, but doesn’t survive question time. Anyone had a go at analysing Ms Skripal?
https://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/search/label/Sergei%20Skripal
Play along love, it’s just a little film and your old man could still have a relapse couldn’t he? Now slip into this pretty frock with a low neck to show the trachy scar, then some nice make up for the camera. What monsters could want to hurt a pretty woman like this? The security services think the citizens of the UK are gullible fools.
She says she was in a coma for 20 days from either March 3rd or 4th.
The OPCW report states they predeployed in the UK on March 19th and deployed in March 21-23.
So it appears Yulia Skripal emerged from her coma just in time to say “hi” to OPCW. But then Sergei seems able to leave hospital just in time to watch the Royal Wedding, so convenient timing seems a feature of this case.
She also describes her treatment as “painful, invasive and depressing”, I wonder if she was given her tracheotomy just prior to the OPCW turning up? It doesn’t seem like she was in a coma when it took place.
Also to remember someone logged into her VK account on March 7.
Can anyone make the structure out in the background @ 16-18s (best viewed paused)
https://www.channel4.com/news/yulia-skripal-issues-video-statement
It may give a clue as to her location
i think it is a Larsen Trap (used to catch magpies and crows, often used by gamekeepers on game shoots), see my comment below, at 0:7-0:10 in video i’ve attached it looks like green fields are seen through the tree foliage.
I cannot comment on he Independent site, and this has been going on for a week. Every one of my comments is flagged in green for moderation, and then vanishes without trace.
My latest one on the Yulia Skripal story is no different – “She conducts interviews in Russian yet writes quite good letters in English – how strange?”
I don’t see anything offensive in that.
There seems to be an awful lot of vetting/censorship going on at the moment.
it’s odd she apparently spoke so fluently with a tracheostomy operation 7 weeks ago during the phone call to Viktoria on the 5th April.
It’s odd she made no mention of Viktoria or Sergei’s 90 year old mother, particularly after earlier statements put out, i would have thought most people would mention their family in such circumstances.
at 1:12 in video of Yulia below there is what looks may be a large larsen trap next to a wire fence, larsen traps are often used to catch magpies and crows on game shoots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj3ltiSbG2s
Yes, it would be very natural to say a word about her granny, her cousin, her fiancee or her dog. A simple phrase “I’ve contacted my family and I know they are OK, so I concentrate on my recovery now”
There’s a comment under your YouTube link:
“She looks much much better looking AFTER the nerve attack than BEFORE !
Does anyone has a clue to why ?
My girlfriend is already asking where she can get that nerve agent…” 🙂
I’ve seen in Russian news earlier that Viktoria Skripal left a message under one of Yulia’s photos, asking to contact her.
Now, Yulia’s page at russian social media Vkontakte is deleted, though it was functional in April, I’ve checked myself – there were a lot of comments under her content there.
https://vk.com/y.skripal
My opinion on Yulia’s statement – she recites that first statement issued for her by Police.
Is it the same “I do not wish to avail myself…” ??? I see no difference.
Summary is the same – thank you Salisbury doctors, thank you Russan counsul, thank you all kind people, my father and I are recovering, don’t contact me.
I expected she would say “I know investigation is ongoing, so I’m obliged not to give out any details” and “I know there are several opinions on my status, so I say – I’m free, nobody detains me” and “I have a phone and Internet connection, I’m free to contact anybody on my desire” – that would be natural.
Her statement was obviously vorded very carefully to say nothing. I’s no matter if she herself wrote it or she was helped or someone gave it to her to rewrite in her handwriting (there is no one correction in English version and 2 in Russian).
I’m just happy to know she is alive and doing well. She must be waiting to contact her father, to discuss and to align their future behavior, because she is adult woman and must understand – any word said wrong in this situation may have coused big impact.
Thanks.
The one thing that is encouraging is that she stated that one day she wants to return to Russia (which is understandable since that is the language she speaks, and the system she understands). It conflicts with what the media has been saying about providing the two Skripals with new identities in the UK, US or Australia. I suspect that is where the spooks would like to see them. I suspect too that she is being kept separate from her father deliberately as a bartering procedure. “You keep saying what we tell you, Yulia, and your father will continue to recover.”
Of course that is speculation and I hope I am wrong. In fact it could be way off the mark. But this is one of the strangest cases I have ever come across with the world’s press totally gagged. The only journalist I have come across who has been asking the right kind of questions in this country is Galina Sapozhnikova. And she is Russian.
Tatyana, I agree that we should have expected her to make statements concerning her family, especially her ageing grandmother, and with the lack of protocol regarding any ongoing investigation. My guess is that whoever wrote it for her was deliberately trying to avoid official jargon so readers would not think it was anything but her own words. The Russian Embassy tweeted:
“The bottom line is that MI5 should expect better results from their translators – for 32k/year they should be able to write statements which sound more Russian.”
As you say it is worded very similar to the Met police-statement made on her behalf after her release from hospital. Unless I’ve missed something this sets me wondering when the video was recorded and when the statements were taken. One of the first things to do with a statement is to date it. As far as I can see neither the English nor Russian statements were dated.
One begins “Good afternoon . . .” The other begins “Добрый день . . .”
We are still no wiser as to when that interview took place or when the statements were taken. And because they are so similar to the Met statement we do not know if Yulia is alive. As I say I may have missed something.
This is a playing out like a game of cluedo. lots speculative, unsubstantiated drivel being hypothesised here. the best point someone made is about how if she truly believed she was poisoned by the russian state, why the fuck would she want to go back there, into the belly of the beast? great point. just remember, confusion is a big tactic used by the zionists in their war of mindfuckery (researchers commonly point out that the zionists have big footholds in russia too, which is interesting but not thoroughly documented as say it is in the USA or Uk). hate them or hate them , they’re clever fuckers, the absolute masters in fact. 9/11 is a good example, the whole pentagon or pennsylvania debacles for example which still remain a mystery. here is a fantastic presentation filling in lots of 9/11 dots, showing the history of the war on terror right from its conception in the 70s, ver detailed on the zionist role with some amazing insights. highly recommended, proper research https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuOsiMVlMBw
when i say documented, i mean visible
I prefer my conspiracy theories without the stench of anti-semitism and with a bit more rationality please
@Giyane
“Is the software needed for Reply to work malicious? I’m going to stick with delayed Reply, like you, just copying and pasting the name, time and date to reference who and what I’m replying to.”
I don’t know the specifics but I think every required update like this comes at the price of increased surveillance.
@quasi_verbatim
She is allowed emergency treatment by the NHS for free. (Thank goodness we do not live in a country where when you call an ambulance because someone has had a nasty accident they ask whether the person has got insurance or march them to a bank machine when they get to the hospital.) But for non-emergency treatment payment is required, whether by herself or by an insurer. If she has an insurance policy, the normal practice would be for the insurer to pay for whatever treatment needs to be provided here, and then to fly her back to Russia to receive continuing care as soon as she’s able to make the journey. I think her care now will be paid for by MI5, not the NHS.
See my post about British counter terrorists taking down the two photos I cited of the real Yulia Sjripal has been taken by the mods here, and posters have taken no notice of this. This is far worse than Craig and you going on and on about what Widpedia has done, so I am leaving. You are just helping British spooks setting up the Russians in the whole fake new exercise. which the Skripals have voluntarily engaged in.
The Express still has a photo of the real Yulia Skripal,drinking with her father in a story by Kat Hopps. Her hair is lighter than the fake Yulia, she is wearing glasses which the Fake one didin’t need when she read her statement, and the real one has a lighter complexion than the fake one for whom I have found no photo of her being with her father.
Bye.
I have only seen about three photos in the media of Yulia since March and she looks different in all of them.
However, I think it was the first published photo that showed her looking pretty and slim and recognisably the Julia that we see in the latest media photos.
In a second, more recently published photo (with her father) it admittedly does not look like her and she is a lot chubbier but we don’t know when it was taken – I reckon it was taken some years before the first published photo. However, I don’t doubt for a minute that we saw the real Yulia yesterday – though she was looking a little fragile and had understandably lost weight – after what she’s been through.
Trowbridge it is definitely Yulia Skripal who gave the interview released yesterday. Take a look at photos on her VK page. The recent photo where she was wearing glasses and drinking in The Mill show a more round-faced Yulia (perhaps from eating all that pizza). If any photo is not her it is that one. And think about it, there are her relatives in Russia, the Russian Embassy and the many other people who knew her. Nobody is saying it is not her. However this comment is pertinent.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/philip-cross-madness-part-iv/comment-page-6/#comment-751649
I imagine he/they are using this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Momentum_(organisation)
It lists every page on Wikipedia that links to Momentum’s wiki page
What happens when you type ‘Philip Cross Wikipedia editor’ – into Wikipedia ?
in russian Wiki you get this
Возможно, вы имели в виду «philip crocus wikipedia edition» 🙂
at Wiki eng you’ll find this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Apostle
and Cross of Philip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Apostle#/media/File:Coa_Illustration_Cross_of_St_Philip.svg
from the article:
Philip the Apostle… who preached in Greece, Syria, and Phrygia.
Saint Philip is the patron saint of hatters
does it make any sense?
Dogged, dogged, dogged. This is what we want in journalism but we get it instead from an ostracised public servant. Woe is us.
Fantastic work, Craig. Keep publishing the psyop which our taxes fund and the triple standards of the powerful.
NB: Its a good idea to take a week or three out of this torrent of how the world really works, just for mental solitude.
The Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz has been able to contact Philip Cross, although he didn’t tell them much. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/russian-and-leftists-witch-hunt-against-pro-israel-wikipedia-editor-1.6115917 :
That’s a falsehood, taken apart here. Haaretz never got a thing from him.
https://twitter.com/leftworks1/status/1000451192412164097
Watch this space. George Galloway has his phone number..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0UKveD9R3Y
This must be an intelligence operation as they seem to be the only outfit with the ability to hire and pay for it? I guess it fits in with the GCHQ monitoring of every UK phone call for the last 50 or more years?
Why half of Fleet street wouldbe following Cross is a real mystery or is it just so that they can get the lies and propaganda right? Journalists are usually very aware that anything on Wikipedia is not to be trusted as source material in any circumstances? However good Investigative Journalism with well researched source material is pretty rare these days and the 24 hr news cycle positively encourages this type of lazy reporting.
Sir, It seems that Philip Cross has suspended his tweeter account.
A gang of Wikipedia sock puppets have trolled your previous article to make the water muddy. They use the same tactics: add a sentence and then remove it and put a comma and change British spelling to American and vice versa unti they clear trace of their own sock puppets.
The reality is that Wikipedia itself is part of the mainstream media and misinformation war founded by an unscrupulus persons with certain agenda known to many researchers.
It is misinformation not in the world of politics and humanity. Even in some abstract arenas like mathematics it is misinformation. it changes the world into a fuzzy state that you cannot believe even an iota of that. Its job is to confuse minds of humans whether in mathematics or world of marine or politics. It should be shut down or avoided.
You are right. They have tools that flag their paid and deceived patrols. They also have tools that brings their results to the first page of search engines and to the top in particular with contribution to Google
In the world of Wikipedia you cannot defend of anything humane