It was happy to see Yulia alive and looking reasonably well yesterday, if understandably stressed. Notably, and in sharp contrast to Litvinenko, she leveled no accusations at Russia or anybody else for her poisoning. In Russian she spoke quite naturally. Of the Russian Embassy she said very simply “I am not ready, I do not want their help”. Strangely this is again translated in the Reuters subtitles by the strangulated officialese of “I do not wish to avail myself of their services”, as originally stated in the unnatural Metropolitan Police statement issued on her behalf weeks ago.
“I do not wish to avail myself of their services” is simply not a translation of what she says in Russian and totally misses the “I am not ready” opening phrase of that sentence. My conclusion is that Yulia’s statement was written by a British official and then translated to Russian for her to speak, rather than the other way round. Also that rather than translate what she said in Russian themselves for the subtitles, Reuters have subtitled using a British government script they have been given.
It would of course have been much more convincing had Sergei also been present. Duress cannot be ruled out when he is held by the British authorities. I remain extremely suspicious that, at the very first chance she got in hospital, Yulia managed to get hold of a telephone (we don’t know how, it was not her own and she has not had access to one since) and phone her cousin Viktoria, yet since then the Skripals have made no attempt to contact their family in Russia. That includes no contact to Sergei’s aged mum, Yulia’s grandmother, who Viktoria cares for. Sergei normally calles his mother – who is 89 – regularly. This lack of contact is a worrying sign that the Skripals may be prevented from free communication to the outside world. Yulia’s controlled and scripted performance makes that more rather than less likely.
It is to me particularly concerning that Yulia does not seem to have social media access. The security services have the ability to give her internet risk free through impenetrable VPN. But they appear not to have done that.
We know a little more about the Salisbury attack now:
Nobody – not Porton Down, not the OPCW – has been able to state that the nerve agent found was of Russian manufacture, a fact which the MSM continues to disgracefully fudge with “developed in Russia” phrasing. As is now well known and was reported by Iran in scientific literature, Iran synthesised five novichoks recently. More importantly, the German spying agency BND obtained novichok in the 1990s and it was studied and synthesised in several NATO countries, almost certainly including the UK and USA.
In 1998, chemical formulae for novichok were introduced into the United States NIST National Institute of Standards and Technologies Mass Spectrometry Library database by U.S. Army Edgewood Chemical and Biological Defense Command, but the entry was later deleted. In 2009 Hillary Clinton instructed US diplomats to feign ignorance of novichoks, as revealed by the last paragraph of this Wikileaks released diplomatic cable.
Most telling was the Sky News interview with the head of Porton Down. Interviewer Paul Kelso repeatedly pressed Aitkenhead directly on whether the novichok could have come from Porton Down. Aitkenhead replies “There is no way, anything like that could…leave these four walls. We deal with a number of toxic substances in the work that we do, we’ve got the highest levels of security and controls”. Asked again twice, he each times says the security is so tight “the substance” could not have come from Porton Down. What Aitkenhead does NOT say is “of course it could not have come from here, we have never made it”. Indeed Aitkenhead’s repeated assertion that the security would never have let it out, is tantamount to an admission Porton Down does produce novichok.
If somebody asked you whether the lion that savaged somebody came from your garden, would you reply “Don’t be stupid, I don’t have a lion in my garden” or would you say, repeatedly, “Of course not, I have a very strong lion cage?”. Here you can see Mr Aitkenhead explain repeatedly he has a big lion cage, from 2’25” in.
So the question of where the nerve agent was made remains unresolved. The MSM has continually attempted to lie about this and affirm that all novichok is Russian made. The worst of corporate and state journalism in the UK was exposed when they took the OPCW’s report that it confirmed the findings of Porton Down and presented that as confirming the Johnson/May assertion that it was Russia, whereas the findings of Porton Down were actually – as the Aitkenhead interview stated categorically – that they could not say where it was made.
The other relatively new development is the knowledge that Skripal had not retired but was active for MI6 on gigs briefing overseas intelligence agencies about Russia. This did not increase his threat to Russia, as he told everything he knows a decade ago. But it could provide an element of annoyance that would indeed increase Russian official desire to punish him further.
But the fact he was still very much active has a far greater significance. The government slapped a D(SMA) notice on the identity of Pablo Miller, Skripal’s former MI6 handler who lives close by in Salisbury and who worked for Christopher Steele’s Orbis Intelligence at the time that Orbis produced the extremely unreliable dossier on Trump/Russia. The fact that Skripal had not retired but was still briefing on Russia, to me raises to a near certainty the likelihood that Skripal worked with Miller on the Trump dossier.
I have to say that, as a former Ambassador in the former Soviet Union trained in intelligence analysis and familiar with MI6 intelligence out of Moscow, I agree with every word of this professional dissection of the Orbis Trump dossier by Paul Roderick Gregory, irrespective of Gregory’s politics. In particular this paragraph, which Gregory wrote more than a year before the Salisbury attack, certainly applies to much of the dossier.
I have picked out just a few excerpts from the Orbis report. It was written, in my opinion, not by an ex British intelligence officer but by a Russian trained in the KGB tradition. It is full of names, dates, meetings, quarrels, and events that are hearsay (one an overheard conversation). It is a collection of “this important person” said this to “another important person.” There is no record; no informant is identified by name or by more than a generic title. The report appears to fail the veracity test in the one instance of a purported meeting in which names, dates, and location are provided. Some of the stories are so bizarre (the Rosneft bribe) that they fail the laugh test. Yet, there appears to be a desire on the part of some media and Trump opponents on both sides of the aisle to picture the Orbis report as genuine but unverifiable.
The Russian ex-intelligence officer who we know was in extremely close contact with Orbis at the time the report was written, was Sergei Skripal.
The Orbis report is mince. Skripal knew it was mince and how it was written. Skripal has a history of selling secrets to the highest bidder. The Trump camp has a lot of money. My opinion is that as the Mueller investigation stutters towards ignominious failure, Skripal became a loose end that Orbis/MI6/CIA/Clinton (take your pick) wanted tied off. That seems to me at least as likely as a Russian state assassination. To say Russia is the only possible suspect is nonsense.
The Incompetence Factor
The contradiction between the claim that the nerve agent was so pure it could only be manufactured by a state agent, and yet that it failed because it was administered in an amateur and incompetent fashion, does not bother the mainstream media. Boris Johnson claimed that the UK had evidence that Russia had a ten year programme of stockpiling secret novichok and he had a copy of a Russian assassination manual specifying administration by doorknob. Yet we are asked to believe that the Russians failed to notice that administration by doorknob does not actually work, especially in the rain. How two people both touched the doorknob in closing the door is also unexplained, as is how one policeman became poisoned by the doorknob but numerous others did not.
The explanations by establishment stooges of how this “ten times more powerful than VX” nerve agent only works very slowly, but then very quickly, if it touches the skin, and still does not actually kill you, have struck me as simply desperate. They make May’s ringing claims of a weapon of mass destruction being used on British soil appear somewhat unjustified. Weapon of Upset Tummy does not sound quite so exciting.
To paint a doorknob with something that if it touches you can kill you requires great care and much protective gear. That no strangely dressed individual has been identified by the investigation – which seems to be getting nowhere in identifying the culprit – is the key fact here. None of us know who did this. The finger-pointing at Russia by corporate and state interests seeking to stoke the Cold War is disgusting.
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Please, what’s the consensus re: @SkripalYulia at Twitter? (N.B., Upon inspection, wait a short while for a computerized translation from Russian to appear.) The account was opened in April and, given the content of all the tweets, it would seem so pointless — virtually psychiatric, even — for anyone to have bothered to have perpetrated (and since kept updated) such a fabrication in her name. Btw, I have been unable to compose a tweet for communication to that address — all my attempts at typing a tweet dissolve on screen before I’ve been able to write half a sentence.
Just a quick look back at the “Salisbury affair” and the relative (lack of) reaction by the police/emergency services and the lack of panic amongst the general public.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/09/we-panicked-more-about-the-snow-stoic-salisbury-shrugs-off-nerve-agent-attack
Of course, following this, the media/politicians started to go into meltdown (Williamson, Johnson, May), but the (lack of) advice to the general public was comical and bewildering – just get the Persil (other brands are available) out and give your rags a good wash – that’ll sort it, because after all it is just a MILITARY GRADE NERVE AGENT — DON’T PANIC!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43362673
And of course, there was the fantastic, one may say magical powers of this nerve agent, which allowed it to be very specific in choosing targets, because of all the dozens of people who were examined at the hospital, the hundreds or even thousands who may have been contaminated in various parts of Salisbury, only THREE, YES THREE – people were poisoned.
As the late, great sports commentator David Coleman used to say – “quite remarkable”.
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201803221062808150-uk-russia-nerve-agent-skripal/
Of course, that was quite a ridiculous suggestion, so three weeks later, public health “experts” (politicians cacking themselves probably) then told Salisbury residents – about 500 of them – to send their bagged clothes to Wiltshire council for cleaning and possible compensation.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/salisbury-poisoning-zizzi-pub-clothing-1380993
Then of course, one by one, we have the incredible recovery of the three victims, who are now walking, talking, giving interviews, and generally behaving in a manner not seen since the “Raising of Lazarus” in the Gospel of St John.
We are indeed living in strange times – may your God go with you.
The realisation that it was a nerve agent coincided with DS Bailey admittance to the hospital
These ‘events’ like the poisoning of the Skripals always follow the same line. A mass of emergency response personnel, and in the Skripals case people in Hazchem suits strutting around like oversized canaries. Whole areas cordoned off to amaze and dazzle the public.
MSM allowed to report on the immediate incident, quite often making genuine mistakes rushing the storyline out. Then comes the dearth of official information – CCTV not made available. Official narrative carefully controlled and quite often contradictory. Snippets of real information from non-official sources still come out. Add a few D(SMA) notices and let the Conspiracy Theorists have free reign.
I can’t help feeling that the Conspiracy Theorists are being played. The ‘government’, whoever they are, should never be underestimated.
One theory had the Skripals disappeared. Then Yulia appears for Reuters. That blows some of the conspiracy theories out of the water. If you show several conspiracy theories to be wrong, the inference is that all conspiracy theories could be wrong. In any case, good for an attack against fake news.
Did Yulia Skripal sign her name Yulia Skripalovna to try to signal something wrong, or was she told to sign her name like that just to confuse matters. Yulia, a Russian born and bred, is well aware that is grammatically incorrect.
In the two photographs of Yulia with her father, she is wearing glasses. She is obviously long-sighted as she needed them to read menus. Why did she not bring glasses with her to sign her name (or read the Teleprompter?). Even if she has contact lenses now, she would be carrying a small box and eye solutions. The fact she came without a handbag/pocketbook is puzzling. Does she have possession of her passport and a (new) mobile phone? No purse, lipstick or cosmetics?
What’s next for the public? Yulia and a minder on the Ellen Degeneres Show?
Joking aside, what is not mentioned is the fact that this event justified the use of at least one UK thermobaric missile against Syria. When was the ethics of ever using such a weapon discussed in parliament? Fortunately, there were no casualties reported.
Just out of curiosity – according to early leaked accounts to the Daily Mail”
“Two doctors with expertise in chemical weapons attacks were on duty at Salisbury District Hospital that afternoon [essential medical skill in small provincial English towns]. The pair had recently completed a training course at Porton Down, which enabled them to quickly recognise the symptoms of exposure to a nerve agent…….The doctors ran enzyme level tests on the three victims which confirmed the use of a nerve agent. They then summoned scientists from nearby Porton Down”
Cholinesterase is a very specialized test. Salisbury Base Hospital has a small pathology department – with an extensive online lab handbook
http://www.icid.salisbury.nhs.uk/Diagnostics/Pathology/PathologyHandbook/Documents/Pathology%20User%20Handbook.pdf
If you go to page 43 you can see the entry for Cholinesterase
Cholinesterase (Organo Phosphate Exposure)
Send away to:
Cardiff Toxicol
Turnaround time: 7 days
TLDR: Salisbury Base Hospital doesn’t have a lab capable of running an enzyme level test. While I dare say in emergency a faster turn around time than 7 days from Cardiff could be arranged, but I can’t help wondering if they didn’t skip that step and go straight to Porton Down for tandem MS analysis?
Could we please have a reference to this Daily Mail. There’s no mention of these two people in Mark Urban’s report.
His Excellency, The Trolling Ambassador himself
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1001417651208511488
The ambassador missed the. Most obvious contradiction between ‘that afternoon’ in the Mail version and ‘that night…at that stage’ in the Newsnight version
And ward sister Sarah Clark, who was on duty that night, added that there were fears that the hospital’s staff might end up being affected.
She pointed out that they had not, at that stage, “taken any extra precautions in terms of protecting ourselves”.
Hope someone’s got a screenshot.
In addition, the hospital regarded the incident as an opioid overdose, until the Tuesday
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44278609: In the first video with several medical staff interviewed at 1:52/4:52 a writing appears which says: “By Tuesday doctors realised they were seeing symptoms typical of organophosphate or nerve agent poisoning”. NOT BEFORE TUESDAY: That says all, doesn’t it?
Sean, this is from NHS England and gives the turnaround time as 2 to 3 weeks.
http://www.heftpathology.com/item/cholinesterase.html
The coincidences in this case are staggering. There was a major military chemical weapons exercise going on at the time on the Salisbury Plains area, and the fact that there just happened to be two doctors who had specialised chemical weapons attack training at Salisbury District Hospital is amazing.
I’m sure I’ve seen announcement, they moved chemical weapons exercise to earlier date, then excpected
In an emergency they could probably get overnight service – generally for rare tests the referral lab will batch test runs to save money, but the test itself is not that complicated and can probably be done in a couple of hours.
The only point I was making isn’t it wasn’t available on-site
@ Pyotr Grozny Newsnight is on TONIGHT with the spooky Mark Urban who will embroider his fairy tales. Introduced by the millionairess, Kirsty Wark.
Welcome! We’re on weekdays at 22:30 on BBC Two with @EvanHD @maitlis and @KirstyWark – and anytime at http://facebook.com/bbcnewsnight and http://youtube.com/bbcnewsnight
London, UK
BBC Newsnight5 hours ago
TONIGHT: Hospital staff who saved the lives of poisoned Russians Sergei and Yulia Skripal have revealed they did not expect the victims of the nerve agent attack to survive. Full report from @markurban01 22:30 @BBCTwo
https://bbc.in/2GY73mk #newsnight
Most of what is being said on here about the Skripals has been said before, over and over. Yawn.
Something which hasn’t been said is the self immolation of a young man in Gaza, aged 21 and with a child on the way. Terrible. He could see no future.
Fathi Harb burnt himself to death in Gaza: Will the world notice?
by Jonathan Cook / May 28th, 2018
Fathi Harb should have had something to live for, not least the imminent arrival of a new baby. But last week the 21-year-old extinguished his life in an inferno of flames in central Gaza.
It is believed to be the first example of a public act of self-immolation in the enclave. Harb doused himself in petrol and set himself alight on a street in Gaza City shortly before dawn prayers during the holy month of Ramadan.
In part, Harb was driven to this terrible act of self-destruction out of despair.
After a savage, decade-long Israeli blockade by land, sea and air, Gaza is like a car running on fumes. The United Nations has repeatedly warned that the enclave will be uninhabitable within a few years.
/..
https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/05/fathi-harb-burnt-himself-to-death-in-gaza-will-the-world-notice/
Well, Craig’s thread is about the Skripals, isn’t it, so it’s surely not surprising that there is some repetition in over 1000 comments so far.
Taking all threads together over time, the same points appear to have been made, over and over (yawn), about Israel, Palestine and Gaza.
It might be a “yawn” to you, “Charles”, but scores were shot dead and thousands seriously wounded, when unarmed protesters were attacked with live rounds.
Can you think of another example of such an atrocity, where “(yawn)” was an appropriate response? (Apart from some white nationalist, on hearing about a massacre in apartheid South Africa for example – but the scale here should be enough to embarrass even such a miserable apologist.)
I can think of a few. None are favoured by history.
Re “Here you can see Mr Aitkenhead explain repeatedly he has a big lion cage, from 2’25” in.”
Craig, you can link to youtube videos and make them start at the exact time you want, simply go to the time you want to start from, right mouse click the video and choose ‘copy video url at current time’.
Hope that helps.
Nice to see of all people Richard Madley switching off Gavin Williamson for not answering his question on Good Morning Britain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTDj0QLJtA
I think ITV are finally realising they have a market opportunity here. People are fed up with BBC deference, and sense the public want to give these smug ministers more of a hard time. Hope ITV continue with this most welcome approach.
To be fair, it was a crap question, did they arrange it beforehand?
I just listened to part of a BBC radio programme on agricultural policy and “what’s for dinner after Brexit?”
I continue to take the view that famine is likely. Already the justice secretary is promising to send prison labour to help bring in the harvest because there won’t be so many Polish workers here. And that’s THIS year, not next year.
One of the guys on the programme was from the “Sustainable Food Trust”. “That sounds like a Steinerite nutcase organisation”, I thought, So I checked. And yes, Patrick Holden and the SFT that he leads are precisely that – Steinerite maniacs. The Steinerite term of recognition, “threefold”, was also dropped in. And this highly-funded nutcase is given time on state radio as if he were as sane as a button. We fail to call this out at our peril.
Extremely few people are tuned in to the apocalypticism which in Britain is generally couched in “scientific” rather than religious phraseology. (Thomas Malthus was a church minister, but even he, when jumping for joy at the idea of mass death from poverty and disease, based his ideology on “nature”.) Words like “sustainable” and “transitional” and “food security” abound. And “we” this, “we” that, and “we” the other, when Britain is a hugely segregated country in which hardly anyone in the top 20% could converse properly with anyone in say the bottom 50% even if they wanted to and tried. There is absolutely no glasnost here. There really should be a suitable quote from Bertolt Brecht about when the rulers say “we”. I have not got the time to say more about the rising apocalypticism here. Those who aren’t tuned to it in are missing something enormous.
Environment secretary Michael Gove has just come out with a government command paper called “Health and Harmony“. I haven’t looked at it yet, but if you had to guess which addle-brained “royal” prince and friend of the Rothschilds might have been an influence, which one would you pick?
“I continue to take the view that famine is likely”
N.
No I don’t think that will be the outcome, I think it will be more likely that we’ll import far more food stuffs after Brexit than we do just now. For I cannot in all honesty see the British government continue to provide British farmers with subsidies, as the EU currently does.
Not only will we import far more food stuffs but I believe the quality of those imports won’t come anywhere near the standards of our EU regulations that we currently take for granted.
You do realise that ALL subsidies provided by the EU are simply them paying us back SOME of the money we gave them in the first place ? You do realise that, don’t you?
What other club gives you a percentage of your membership fees back?
There’s just no pleasing some people.
A club that nobody was asked to join and one which wont let you leave.
Oh, and if we are fully paid up members as your reply infers, what is this ‘bill’ they want us to pay?
The bill is financial commitments agreed by the British government, prior to the shambolic Brexit vote.
As to your first point we are leaving unfortunately.
The working class is always on the brink of famine, it’s what the cuts since the early 70s have been for.
A famine may be likely, but not because of ‘Brexit’?
It’s worse than you think?
“The Great Dying wiped out at least 90% of the species on Earth due to an abrupt rise in global-average temperature about 252 million years ago. The vast majority of complex life became extinct. Based on information from the most conservative sources available, Earth is headed for a similar or higher global-average temperature in the very near future. The recent and near-future rises in temperature are occurring and will occur at least an order of magnitude faster than the worst of all prior Mass Extinctions. Habitat for human animals is disappearing throughout the world, and abrupt climate change has barely begun. In the near future, habitat for Homo sapiens will be gone. Shortly thereafter, all humans will die.”
https://guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/
Or not?
“Guy McPherson’s Evidence That Doom Doom Doom”
http://planet3.org/2014/03/13/mcphersons-evidence-that-doom-doom-doom/
How Guy McPherson gets it wrong
https://fractalplanet.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/how-guy-mcpherson-gets-it-wrong/
Those greedy and grandstanding (what a combination) quacks in Salisbury put on an impressive “Don’t Mention Toxic Dagger” show. Perhaps they should all add “DMTD” to the letters after their names? The line that they in Salisbury, their Holy Quacknesses, when treating the Skripals, amassed the “total world experience” (so give us all your money) about treating victims of “Novichok”, was especially memorable. The other funny line was the reference to Porton Down as if they had only discovered it was “on their doorstep” once reports had come in about two people taken ill on a bench near Sainsbury’s. Believe that and you would believe anything.
What a lying bunch of self-important moneygrabbing fuckers, like practically every other member of their “profession”. Can’t open their mouths without lying.
In Britain, realisation of this point tends to grow as people get older (although some of us have had it all our lives, and on the other side of the picture you still meet some people in their 60s and 70s who will believe anything a medic tells them), but it’s still mainly talked about in twos and threes. Politically it’s a complete no-no. There are no organisations, for example, which show an understanding of it in their programmes or their practice. In Britain, you mustn’t go against “sir”. Get called a psycho if you do.
Thing you have learn is this: you must tell the lies that your seniors tell you to tell, as those lies will have been cleared.
If you actually tell lies which have not been cleared, or tell the truth when lying is going on, your career is rapidly in deep doodoo.
Oh, and a jolly good idea to join the Security Services if you are ‘ambitious’. Ambition is realised more easily as a spy. Even in medicine……
Absolutely right, Rhys – when your tutor taps you on the shoulder and suggests you consider a career in the services you’d do well to give it serious thought. Failure to do so can damage your career in whichever field you do decide to enter instead.
I don’t blame the medics. They believe the Skripals were poisoned by a nerve agent and Porton Down experts confirmed that and took over the treatment by the sound of things. The full show is on Newsnight tonight at 10-30 pm. While the Skripals may have been poisoned by insecticides or something they were never poisoned by a military grade nerve agent and that is the difference. My main suspect from the start has been the Yanks who have their own departments at Porton Down.
So Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, has just been released from hospital, the 83 year old is a heavy smoker and has other health complications.
Yet Abbas has not groomed or named a possible successor for when he departs as president. This has led to the belief in some quarters that there could be a bloody succession battle, as jockeying for position mounts.
Abbas ever the politician claim that his health deteriorated of late due to the US announcements over Jerusalem.
The situation in Gaza is becoming very serious.
http://news.sky.com/story/palestinian-militants-fire-25-mortars-into-southern-israel-11388857
Seems far fetched. From whence the ‘mortars’? It used to be the cry from Israel that it was the rockets on Sderot.
http://news.sky.com/story/locked-in-the-devastating-effects-of-israels-gaza-blockade-11389198
An attempt has been made by several boats to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza.
They did not succeed.
Some years back, after the Cast Lead war on Gaza, 2008/9, an Israeli Navy ship rammed the 66ft mv Dignity three times. It was carrying 16 passengers, including doctors, and medical aid. The ramming took place in pitch darkness in the middle of the night and in rough seas. The boat was in international waters at the time. It didn’t sink as it was clinker built and the captain managed to make for Tyre in Lebanon.
Details are contained in this question asked in the European Parliament. Israel was not punished not have it apologized.
Israel knows no law.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2009-2173+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN
It appears that European pro-Palestinian militants are planning another attempt to bring a vessel into Gaza. Fully aware of what happened last time, the organisers of this new stunt again risk having blood on their hands. Perhaps that’s what they’re hoping for.
That’s pretty ugly hasbara support for Israel, with the usual hideous threats.
The blood indelibly belongs to the killers. Every bully blames their victim.
“They were dangerous, threatening.”
“They were backward, weak, savage, uncivilised.”
“They were in the way”
“They should have left, they were warned.”
“What’s wrong with them?”
I imagine most apologists for the rigid monotony of Israeli state terrorism are more or less open about their essential fascism after 70 years of documentation, what’s the point trying to hide it, right? I suppose it very much depends on the sensibility of the audience and whether their general acquiescence is required at some level.
“It appears that European pro-Palestinian militants are planning another attempt to bring a vessel into Gaza.”
______________________________________________________________________________________
These ‘militants’ are, in fact, unarmed Palestine peace activists – many of whom are themselves Jewish. In 2010, they were able to sail for Gaza on an entirely Jewish-manned boat: http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/labour-party-organisation/jvl-statement-suspension-secretary-glyn-secker-labour-party-antisemitism/
The mortars were probably smuggled into Gaza along one of the tunnels. The smugglers would do better to bring in food , medicines and other products more likely to alleviate the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
Glad to see that you agree that there is a humanitarian situation on Gaza. It has existed for decades now. Families are living their lives in the rubble left from the Israeli wars. It’s not living as we know it. It is an existence.
Very game of you to admit the desperate situation there. Why do you think the Israelis will not allow such urgently needed humanitarian supplies, Mr. David? Aren’t they very humanitarian themselves, or something? Perhaps you could petition them to allow in such urgently needed items… but I doubt you’re really concerned.
Christ almighty, tunnels have to be dug to bring in humanitarian supplies, so desperate are these prisoners, and their captors tut-tut about them bringing in anything else. Just unbelievable.
Oh yes, the Israelis are the victims here, I forgot, because they feel so terrible about it all.
Well said Glenn_nl.
This disgusting situation is entirely one of Israel’s making. They are keeping Palestinians in a virtual concentration camp.
Meanwhile the World looks on, apparently unable to keep the vile policies of the Israeli government in check.
“The smugglers would do better to bring in food , medicines and other products more likely to alleviate the humanitarian situation in Gaza.”
____________________________________________________________________________________
That is the vast majority of what they do bring in – hence the catastrophic collapse in Gaza’s economy, since Israel and the Egyptian dictatorship collaborated to destroy almost all the tunnels. Israel has been quite explicit that it is prepared to turn Gaza into Darfur: https://www.thenation.com/article/how-long-before-israel-begins-another-operation-in-the-gaza-strip/
What was Tommy Robinson doing outside the court in Leeds that constituted a contempt? I know he was live-streaming video footage, but what of? Could it have been of the jurors?
Nazir Afzal, a former chief prosecutor of NW England who was involved in the Rochdale case, has implied that Tommy Robinson and the English Defence League may have been cooperating with the Leeds defendants to try to get the case stopped. What he himself said (in a “tweet”) might arguably also constitute a contempt, surely? Did he hit a glass ceiling? Or is someone doing a barium feed? On the face of it, that’s not something you’d expect a former regional chief prosecutor to say while a case – especially one that is subject to blanket reporting restrictions – is in progress. But he did say it, and what he
saysimplies could easily be true. The white British EDL (which comes out of football gangs) and the Pakistani British gangs that engage in child abuse and trafficking will certainly be able to talk the same language to each other. The football gangs aren’t principally about football and the child abuse gangs aren’t principally about child abuse. They are organised crime networks that are principally about money, they understand territory and tactical alliances, and they will both have “understandings” with police officers and probably also with customs officials and MI5 types. I won’t be surprised if the case does get stopped. It can be dangerous to have so many defendants in a single case.I’ve had Robinson down as MI5 after he was challenged on arriving at JFK airport in New York with a false passport, and then the officials “lost” him and he managed to get out of the airport, do whatever he had to do, and fly out of the US the next day. JFK is called a “third world” airport (PR for a refurbishment or construction contract?) but it beggars the imagination that someone could evade officials like that, without “help”.
Between the alt left and the alt right conspiracy theorists it is almost impossible to distinguish any fact from hysteria; They have been frothing away all weekend, and now it turns out it was a suspend sentence for contempt of court which was activated – quite rightly as he was prejudicing the trial, and potentially forcing a retrial. Between them and the MSM, it is all junk, people with agendas, hobby horses and dark conspiracies.Some of the stuff on here doesn’t do Craig any favours.
You are correct that it is impossible to distinguish fact from hysteria.
In no small part this is a consequence of the secrecy surrounding the case imposed by the Judiciary. The writ of English law does not run in far away countries and so people with an agenda outside of the UK were free to pedal their own conspiracy theories. Something that the Judiciary would have been fully aware of when it elected to impose reporting restrictions.
Even with reporting restrictions now partially lifted some people, for example you, are still unable to accurately understand the case. Robinson was operating under a 3 month suspended sentence for contempt of court. The current sentence is 13 months – so clearly his current sentence is something beyond the mere activation of the suspended sentence.
No one knows whether Robinson was in fact prejudicing the trial as the facts necessary to determine an answer remain restricted. This absence of fact does not seem to impede you in reaching your own conclusions – conclusions that can only possibly have been reached by engaging in your own agenda, hobby horses and dark conspiracies. Strange how you find it objectionable when other people engage in such activities but reach instantly for them yourself. Surely you cannot believe that you are somehow better or more entitled than the rest of the population.
Aren’t you the fellow from yesterday who reached the conclusion that systematic abuse and corruption in Rotherham was exclusively a Muslim problem and that political correctness the reason why it was all hushed up. By comparison, you said, Jimmy Saville (who probably notched up a similar number of victims on his own doubtless with forty plus years of state protection and collusion) was somehow made an example of, because he was white. And yet they waited till after he was safely dead before outing him.
And you’re actually criticisng others for weaving corn ears into golden thread!
I think you put that rather well, thank you.
No, I am not “the fellow from yesterday who reached the conclusion that systematic abuse and corruption in Rotherham was exclusively a Muslim problem” In fact I said nothing whatsoever about Muslims.
What I have said is that the British are a nation of cowards who appear to be fixated with some kind of Aztec type human sacrifice cult. So cowardly are the British that without exception they prefer to shoot the messenger than to actually read the message. Your misrepresentation of my comments provides corroborating support to that contention.
If you bother to actually read any research you will note that something over 85% of members of “grooming gangs” are of South Asian origin or extraction. It just so happens that they are also Muslim. Indonesians are Muslim but they are not involved in these activities.
It is a tautology to state that criminals will commit crimes. It is not so obvious why police forces, social services and local councils will provide cover for the activities of these criminals. I very much doubt that there is a significant Muslim element in the organizations covering up the activities of criminals.
Your puerile attempt to distract and divert with manufactured innuendo regarding racism merely serves to indicate that you care nothing for the victims of these crimes – but care greatly about your own self image of virtue.
Scientific fact, recent gentyping proved that 97.65% of South Asian Aztec DNA is actually from Atlantis. Otherwise you’re spot on.
‘Indonesians are Muslim’
Many are. Many are not. Eastern Indonesia has majority Christian Provinces eg East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku, West Papu and Papua, North Sulawesi. Bali of course is majority Hindu.
@certa certi – “Indonesians are Muslim”
I think that you will find the vast majority – 87% – of Indonesians are Muslim.
‘I think that you will find the vast majority – 87% – of Indonesians are Muslim’
Concentrated in the west of the archipelago. The Western msm have developed the annoying habit of labeling Indonesia an ‘Islamic’ country, which it is not. It is secular, with a Muslim majority.
@N_: “What was Tommy Robinson doing outside the court in Leeds that constituted a contempt?”
He was live streaming the defendants entering the court building according to various sources (eg The Independent). Innocent until proven guilty… so police intervention seems reasonable to me. What I did object to however was the fact that I for one would never have known this case was happening at Leeds had ‘TR’ not caused this fuss. Had the court case been reported in the MSM at all? Maybe I’d missed it? It is not normal to let a major trial go completely unmentioned regardless of sub judice requirements.
It is not necessarily the case that filming people entering court interferes with the innocent until guilty concept, and it is not necessarily the case that filming such people constitutes an offence. Here is a video clip of Max Clifford entering court to face charges of indecent assault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqj8wQUlb_s&list=PLXeUwJ5mvC_E4p15H3BMmbLsteiEhrzqJ
If you watch the clip what you will not see is any form of police intervention aimed toward the throng of journalists.
I could almost swear that the news media habitually film defendents going into court.. in fact i can remember seeing scrums for certain causes celebres…but perhaps my memory is faulty..
Fair points, but a single public figure who the media has already identified as being charged is a different scenario to a group of private individuals who have not (AFAIK) been named. I’m not trying to defend the court on this, just trying to make sense of it. Its definitely a concern that the case was not reported at all (AFAIK) but I do think its very important to avoid at all costs the risk of any case collapsing due to prejudice, there’s too much at stake.
This page has diappeared off the radar now but for the record and to correct my previous comment above: after some more digging I found that the 29 defendants involved in this case have indeed been previously named by vaious newspapers, about a year ago during a pre-trial at Leeds. Just google “leeds 29 people trial”
He was indeed livestreaming the defendants entering the court. This is common as several commenters have aready stated. I distinctly remember a trial twenty years ago where at the opening of the trial every defendant was filmed entering the court and profiled by HTV.
What makes the TR case so obviouly contrived is that I have read that the defendants had already been convicted when they were livestreamed and there is no possibility that the filming could have influenced the outcome of the case. The men were entering court for sentencing. In addition, TR never set foot on the Court grounds and had confirmed with police that his activities did not constitute an offence. The Orwellian nature of the suspended sentence is that an arrest activates the suspended sentence. The arrest does not have to be legitimate. This was obviously a planned action by the police state.
Just because you do not agree with the man’s views, there is no doubt that TR has been instrumental in highlighting the disgusting behaviour of the police and social services in their inaction over the rape of white non-muslim children by (mainly) muslim men of Pakistani origin – something the MSM had largely ignored for years. If I remember correctly, TR’s own cousin had been a victim of the rape gangs in Luton. The police were more concerned about allegations of ‘racism’ than the lives of the one group that can be safely ignored in the UK as there is no ‘compassion’ for their victimhood from the Guardian-reading middle classes.
You may despise his views, but a rubicon of the police state has been crossed. Truth is treason in an empire of lies. First they came for TR…
It reflects extremely badly on the left- the real left- if it does not take up the cause of justice *also* for its ideological enemies. Indeed it is perfect opportunity to show bona fide credentials- otherwise it appears to be what it so often is- empty posturing.
Shall we take your word for the events which transpired? Presumably you have some hard evidence to hand or you wouldn’t be making these claims, right?
And speaking of empty posturing, why should a state run creation like Tommy have preferential treatment? A good point. He should precisely because he’s had every advantage in life over the last decade or so, has he not? A more pertinent question might be to ask why his priveleges been revoked just now.
On the other hand I’m sure there’s a breakdown into ethnicity of UK arrest and conviction statistics somewhere about. Could make for interesting reading and might even flatly contradict the claims of preferential treatment.
I can give you an example of a six month custodial sentence for stealing a chocolate bar worth less than fifty pence, according to the press, but no charge for stealing £450 million and absolutely no investigation at all once the theft is in the region of billions of pounds. We know there is preferential treatment for some, although curiously, access to influence and money seems to be the salient factor in our game of monopoly. And all those chasing the money must put out chaff as second nature, otherwise they’re rumbled before long and the opportunities for enrichment scarcer. Got to keep ’em busy believing in their own hypocrisy, eh? Or else they’ll look around and revolt.
In fact, when we look closely, the whiter the crime, the more demonstrably racist the crime (a series of aggressive wars waged exclusively against against brown skinned people in far away countries) for example, the more likely it is there will be not only be no conviction, but no case of any kind to answer. It’s almost as if the truth is exactly in opposition to your entire narrative.
From a whole range of statistical measures it seems almost impossible not to conclude (unless one tries very hard) that the problem isn’t being white or black, it’s not even being poor, so much as the division, corruption, lies, distraction, self delusion and displacement of cause, effect and blame all necessary to enforce the current level of inequality.
No, don’t take my word. Which claims? I’ve made very few, and more than happy to defend any that I have made.
And then you make the claim that he is a ‘state creation’- I don’t suppose you would care to substantiate that, would you? with hard evidence?
I have not mentioned race once. If you look at how much your post is devoted to it (and, as I say, the fact i haven’t mentioned it at all) you will perhaps catch a glimpse of your own ‘mind-forged manacles’.
I don’t think I have ever seen ‘whataboutism’ as ludicrous as your comparison with illegal foreign wars- and- possibly- I wasn’t paying very close attention- banking or financial scandals. I agree that these criminals should be brought to book- though i would tentatively suggest it isn’t race that is motivating them in the middle east- or in the major banks either. But what on earth has that got to do with this case? Isn’t it the same evil government persecuting tommy robinson? I suppose should your own daughter be repeatedly raped you would accept as reasonable the plea that since tony blair has never been prosecuted for the 100s of thousand dead in iraq- ‘we are not investigating’. You have the very disheartening way of playing, as malcolm muggeridge put it, the ‘numbers game’.
As it happens- out of interest (not because it has any bearing on our conversation but becasue our prisons are full)- I would actually like to see the case of the person locked up for six months for stealing a chocolate bar. Could you point me toward it?
In short- i take it you are willing to look the other way: because you don’t like his views, and you have your own set of odd views governed by obsessions with race and statistical equality (equality of outcome):- i find that profoundly depressing.
Discursive? Maybe, but since your arrival appears focussed on this particular battle, it would seem odd not to want to explore what the battle actually is. Why limit the narrative to Stephen Lennon’s PR operation unless we count ourselves among the faithful? And if brevity really is your thing: some evidence for your case would be nice.
Tommy Robinson, AKA Stephen Yaxley-Lenon, AKA Stephen Christopher Lennon, AKA Andrew McMaster, AKA Paul Harris is weaving a tangled web, ostensibly as a ‘working class hero’ with ‘authentic’ working class values. Except that his values are no more working class than the Daily Mail is a newspaper owned or run on behalf of the working class. He keeps the company of convicted paedophiles while apparently engaging in a little statutory rape but is not against condemning his own predilections when committed by Muslims.
That he appears to be a staunch Zionist is entirely consistent with white, European, colonial/imperial sentiment and no more an essential attribute of the working class than generations of social control and media indoctrination from above are egalitarian. We can argue about that, the point being, if you aren’t asking who Tommy Robinson is or who he works for, why should I automatically assume your concept of ‘justice denied’ has merit?
His extensive record of criminal convictions is not a major bone of contention here and might even lend a little célèbre to his cause but it does paint an intriguing picture of his development. In summary, you have to admit that his strong anti-Islamic and pro-Zionist sentiments are fascinatingly aligned with the interests of the corporate war machine, Western oil interests and UK government foreign, domestic and energy policy at a time while involved in several wars in several Islamic countries and crucially just as working class support has been decisively falling away.
“I would actually like to see the case of the person locked up for six months for stealing a chocolate bar.”
I admit that I have conflated these two stories into one, I’m only human.
Woman jailed in Britain for six months for begging for 50 pence
Woman fined £330 for stealing 75p Mars Bar
Is this a thing here? a sort of scatter-gun, mud-flinging approach to people- hoping that some of it sticks? Even referencing each other as sources!!!
The image of twirling sufis- or mantra chanting religious enthusiasts come to mind.
I have to think of a way of responding to it- it is new to me- and quite dis-orientating.
Yes i introduced the subject here (i think)- off topic. I am interested in the topic itself, with Mr Murray’s opinions (i think something very fishy is going on in other words), and with what many say about it here- but I really cannot add anything to discussion.
“i think something very fishy is going on”
You think?
“Reduced air–sea CO2 exchange (32%) in the Atlantic Ocean due to biological surfactants.”
The Atlantic ocean is struggling to absorb CO2 emissions, in certain areas, time is against us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-018-0136-2
I know Wiki isn’t to be trusted but a explanation as to what a surfacant is, is helpful.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant
A surfactant is a molecule which is part water loving and part water hating. So if such molecules are in the ocean, they will tend to end up on the surface with the water loving part pointing down and the water hating bit covering the surface.
As a result, if you created a complete surface layer of surfactant, gases like carbon dioxide will struggle to freely migrate between gaseous phase and dissolved carbonic acid, hence more would remain in the atmosphere.
Presumably the implication is increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is not helped by the ocean sink being inaccessible to free gaseous exchange?
Well it could come to pass in the near future in the oppressive apartheid military regime of Israel, that if you’re caught filming IDF soldiers in action (who knows? Sniping kids, beating up women and children etc) that you could be given a automatic five year prison sentence.
I guess after the widespread condemnation of the IDF’s shooting and killing of protesters armed with stones, while the IDF only had state of the art everything, that we must not in the future be allowed to film them doing their thing.
https://www.rt.com/news/428137-ban-filming-idf-occupation/
@ Republicofscotland May 29, 2018 at 18:04
Kids can be sentenced to 20 years for stone-throwing (or after being bullied or tortured into ‘admitting’ it).
It is heartbreaking to see the photographs (and some videos) and to hear the biographical details of those who died in the Grenfell fire as told by their relatives. More so about the little ones. They had come from many countries to live in this country and to make their contributions.
Go…Away…And…Shut…Up
TV shock as frustrated Richard Madeley TERMINATES Defence Secretary interview LIVE on GMB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTDj0QLJtA
Wow! I always thought Richard Madeley was a bit bland and aligned with the establishment but he’s improved with age. He did quite a good stint filling in for Matthew Wright as presenter of the “Wright Stuff” some months ago. He’s has gone up in my estimation. He needs to be let loose on a few more politicians!
What slimy, pointless, repetitive regurgitation of stale propaganda from Gavin Williamson.
Don’t get too cosy. Madeley also insists that ‘we know what happened’ in Salisbury. I don’t accept his premise.
True…
So, as the United Kingdom of Great Britan and Norn’Irn set off on their joyful brexit jaunt, there are some like me who think and hope that all will be well, amidst all the gentleman’s agreements there will be space for a renewed and stronger England etc to grow and prosper in full sovereignty. . .critics suggest that Blue-Peter can launch the UK-GPS, made from sticky-back plastic, eventually. Let’s be positive!
The (actually decreasing) threat from all those terrorist does worry some bystanders (Feb 2018)
http://www.dw.com/en/theresa-may-calls-for-uk-eu-security-agreement/a-42625849
UK Prime Minister Theresa May has called for a security treaty between the EU and Britain “to protect all EU citizens.” European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said security ties between the two will be upheld. British Prime Minister Theresa May: ‘Europe’s security is our security’ British Prime Minister Theresa May on Saturday said a “bespoke” security agreement between the United Kingdom and European Union was needed to avoid “damaging and real world consequences” for people in both regions. …To make this happen will require real political will on both sides,” May said. ‘Committed to Europe’s security’ .
Seems a bit tricky therefore that the Euro press have been handed confidential EU documents which accuse the Theresa May spies , those committed to Europe’s Security , of stealing, abusing, multiple (and damaged, incomplete) European Security databases from the actual original France and Estonian repositories.
Following typically great British GDPR practices , these wonky but unauthorized super secret Databases were then given to Japanese, Canadian and US firms, private contractors, left on unsecured laptops, subject to USPATRIOT etc. Seemingly no worries there about “information sharing would be hampered” , just unauthorisedly share and share often!
Perhaps it is just a BoJo security marketing strategy, “nice database, it’s a shame what might happen to it, know what I mean, guv. sign our security treaty or we might hack your databases”, again?
More details http://euobserver.com/justice/141919
Justice & Home Affairs, UK unlawfully copying data from EU police system
UK not part of Schengen, but its abuse of Schengen systems put people at risk, report said
BRUSSELS, 28. MAY, 17:49
The United Kingdom has been illegally copying classified personal information from a database reserved for members of the passport-free Schengen travel zone. It has shared the information with US companies and it is demanding to keep access to the database after it leaves the EU next year
An internal EU document, seen by EUobserver, listed years of violations by British authorities following restricted access to the Schengen Information System (SIS), an EU-run database used by police to track down undocumented migrants, missing people, stolen property, or suspected criminals.
The UK never joined the Schengen area, which includes 26 other European countries most of whom are EU members, but has been given some access to SIS since 2015.
British mismanagement and manipulation of the Schengen system also meant that “persons sought for arrest for instance even for terrorism related activities by Schengen Associated Countries cannot be detected upon entry to the UK,” said the “restricted” EU document.
The 29-page document, drafted by Schengen experts from EU states and from the European Commission, said the UK violations “constitute serious and immediate risks to the integrity and security of SIS data as well as for the data subjects.”
Sigh.
@ Radar O’Reilly May 29, 2018 at 19:31
‘…UK Prime Minister Theresa May has called for a security treaty between the EU and Britain “to protect all EU citizens.” European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said security ties between the two will be upheld. British Prime Minister Theresa May: ‘Europe’s security is our security’ British Prime Minister Theresa May on Saturday said a “bespoke” security agreement between the United Kingdom and European Union was needed to avoid “damaging and real world consequences” for people in both regions. …To make this happen will require real political will on both sides,” May said. ‘Committed to Europe’s security…..’.
A possible way to lessen the ‘Terrorist Attacks’ might be to put a prohibitive income tax on ‘Crisis Actors’ income.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2018/may/29/richard-madeley-gavin-williamson-dodges-question-on-russia-video
Williamson is 20x worse than his predecessor, Fallon, if that is possible.
Can you imagine his sliminess when he was chief whip? Laughable that he was the only one available to May for the MoD job. Would love to know what the top brass in the MoD in Whitehall think of him.
Interesting that he either abstained or was unable to attend for the vote on Cameron’s war on Line in 2011.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12816279
UK Gov riding two horses again
UK aid to provide vital medicine and surgical equipment to struggling hospitals in Gaza
The UK is providing a new package of life-saving support to help treat patients in 11 hospitals under pressure in Gaza.
Published 29 May 2018
From:
Department for International Development, Foreign & Commonwealth Office, and The Rt Hon Alistair Burt MP
The UK is providing a new package of life-saving support to help treat patients in 11 hospitals under pressure in Gaza, by restocking vital medical supplies including surgical equipment, bandages and medicines following the recent surge in violence.
The funding, announced by Minister for the Middle East Alistair Burt today (Tuesday 29 May) on a visit to Gaza, will support work by the International Committee of the Red Cross to keep hospitals open and functioning at a time when the healthcare system is under huge strain.
Today’s commitment of £1.5 million will also help provide physical rehabilitation services for around 4,000 people.
Speaking from Gaza, Minister for the Middle East Alistair Burt said:
I am deeply concerned about the worsening situation in the Gaza strip, and today’s UK aid package gives a message to the world, and to the people of Gaza, that we have not forgotten them or their plight.
Today’s support will help to ensure that hospitals which are under immense pressure are able to cope with the increased number of casualties who need medical and surgical care. It is absolutely vital that the UK steps up to help those suffering and ensure that vulnerable Gazans are able to access treatment to keep them alive.
We have been clear that a political settlement is the only way to ensure lasting peace for Palestinians and Israelis alike. All parties must redouble their political efforts and return to the negotiating table, not only to address the deteriorating conditions in Gaza, but to ensure tragedies of the past months are not repeated.
UK support is already providing Gazans with access to clean water, and improving sanitation facilities to help stop the spread of deadly disease.
Through the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees (UNRWA), UK aid is providing basic health and education to 1.3 million people in Gaza, as well as over 800,000 refugees in the West Bank.
Minister Burt announced in March at the Rome Conference that the UK will deliver its next round of financial support to UNRWA earlier than originally planned to help meet the growing needs of Palestinian refugees across the region.
Notes to editors
Today’s £1.5 million package is a new allocation from the Occupied Palestinian Territories programme budget for 2018/19.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-aid-to-provide-vital-medicine-and-surgical-equipment-to-struggling-hospitals-in-gaza
I sent this email to all four addressees after reading your comment:
‘Dear Media Team, Department for International Development, Foreign & Commonwealth Office, and The Rt Hon Alistair Burt MP,
I would like to ask the Department for International Development, Foreign & Commonwealth Office, and The Rt Hon Alistair Burt MP if they will be requesting Parliament to discuss firing cruise missiles at Israeli military facilities, and to set up a ‘No Fly Zone’ in and around Gaza?
The government bombed Syrian facilities on the pretext of an unproven CW attack by the Syrian government, whereas there is acknowledged IDF use of snipers against unarmed peaceful demonstrators in Gaza, as well as murderous attacks on aid ships in International waters (just like they knowingly attacked the unarmed USS Liberty in 1967, also in International waters) and illegal aircraft bombings of people and vital infrastructure?
And the totally illegal blockade of Gaza?
Or is there one law for ‘friends’ and another for countries where HMG wants to see ‘Regime Change’?’
I must admit Tommy Robinson did a very good job educating his foot soldiers. It’s as clear as mud their grievance.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M
Typical sneering. i suppose you would rather that a football thug hadn’t achieved more- hadn’t done more substantial good- and hadn’t actually provoked the real right hand of power of the state against him- than you have ever done-or could dream of doing- to say the least of it- with all your terribly brave ‘non-conformism’.
He’s rabble roused a mob of knuckledraggers with anti-muslim bigotry. Clearly an impressive achievement by your standards.
Dom- take off the blinkers for a minute.
He saw in his home town (becasue he lived in these areas- not a leafy spot of Luton): the relation between drug pushers- sex traffickers- and radical islam. He saw it, didn’t like it, and starting investigating and making a fuss about it. Now- we *have* to accept he had a point. I think it very probable that thanks to him (please note) GIRLS- CHILDREN have been saved from rape and slavery. Can you see where i am coming from now? Please respond to this point.
Yes very noble indeed, however in the process of his vigilante crusades Tommy and his knights of the Empty Skulls, so to speak, have demonised an entire group of people.
You let the police deal with these crimes, and if they don’t you complain higher up the chain of command, that’s how it’s done.
What you don’t do is whip up hysteria, in the minds of men and women who already have a preconception that all Muslims are rapists and terrorists. For you as I have already said, end up stigmatising a whole group of people.
Finally I’m sure there are other ethnic groups in England running drugs and child prostitutes, who aren’t of Muslim origin, I don’t recall Tommy demonise them.
Watch the video of the speech given by times jounalist Andrew Norfolk. there is a case of neighbour calling the police becasue she heard a girl screaming. Police show up and find partially dressed girl of- if memory serves- 14 or 15, with 5 men in their 30s. this is about 3 in the morning. The police arrested the girl for being drunk. He tells of cases of parents going to the police- and being ignored.
Ironically, because of *your* prejudice you do not want to follow this up. You are worried there might be something racist in it all. Maybe there is- or was. Nevertheless, something very substantial has been discovered. In fact, i believe the level of political collusion in all this could be very great: thus the ‘muslim’ element would actually be forgotten in a wider and deeper scandal. Norfolk mentions the fact that girls in care from the south were being sent to northern england for’ 24hr 1 on 1 care’: ie they had house to themsleves- at no doubt enoromous cost to taxpayer- and were infact being pimped. What on earth is going on there? this is why i believe TR is being silenced- he has stumbled or an enormous scandal.
I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree, on the antics of Mr Robinson, and his not so merry crew.
I see others do not see Tommy in a good light either.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/DontFreeTommy?src=hashtag_click
It is not whether you have others on your side (you could everybody on your side- it would make no difference)- but whether you are in right or wrong.
Shocking the way you are able to shield yourself from reality: the evil of ideology!
“Shocking the way you are able to shield yourself from reality: the evil of ideology!”
Which ideology would that be then?
The British government deporting long time citizens such as the Windrush folk?
Or Consecutive British governments invading and razing the likes of Libya and Iraq to the ground, using a number of pretences.
Or what about the £32 million pounds taxpayer bill forked for one of the richest families in the world, whilst children go hungry in our schools.
Or maybe you are referring to the undemocratic, unelected House of Lords. Who receive £300 pounds per-day just for showing up, whilst dining in a well stocked taxpayer subsidised restaurant, nice work if you can get it eh?
you betray yourself.
Justice for you means justice for those you deem worthy of justice. It is for you in fact a means- not an end- a means to victory. But that is not justice- but rather something like its opposite.
Look, i can prove it to you (though you will never admit it)- transpose Tommy Robinson to palestine. He-a common palestinian lad- has some rather politically incorrect views regarding israelis and jews generally.Yet despite this- or rather because of it- he discovers huge scandal involving the rape of palestinian girls- whcih is covered up by israeli state (who are very possibly complicit in crime). They even put this young man in jail to shut him up!
Now imagine you reacting as you ahve reacted to tommy- put all your words in your mouth now!
Now please don’t tell me the analogy isn’t perfect- i know, and no analogy is.
But i am sure you see my point.
I- have no probem at all with this imagined- transposed- case: what is right is right- whatever his uncouth views: and given his experience, and milieu, though i do not agree with them, i can excuse them somewhat- and they would no effect at all on the facts he has discovered.
RG – keep fighting the good fight. The facts are on your side, and ad-hominem attacks and constant smears of ‘racist’ do not change them. What I find extremely revealing is that TR’s stated opposition to a toxic ideology is enough to provoke responses that expose the true prejudice of commenters who despise the white working class. Apparently those who are forced to live amongst those that profess the violent Wahabbist ideology are not allowed to voice their desperation, or even object to the systematic rape of their children as it makes certain ‘anti-racist’ types uncomfortable. In today’s multicultural Britain, the only acceptable racism is that directed towards the unrepresented white working class. They can freely be disparaged as ‘knuckle-dragging’ thugs – an epithet I doubt they would apply to any other demographic – without fear of a hate-crime referral.
The tribalism of some commenters on this board is depressing. Does no one take seriously the words of misattributed to Voltaire on free expression? Something about not agreeing with what you say, but …
Dom- ‘mate’- you are not showing signs of reason.
Fear of being labeled racist was condemned int he rotherham report as part of the reason these men got away with RAPING GIRLS for DECADES. And you are still spreading that wrongheaded fear. Absolutey nobody thinks it’s all muslims. becasue that is just silly, isn’t it?
As i say- you are unreacheable through reason. And so i turn to psychological explanations for your obstinacy. Again you mention ‘knuckledraggers’. Could it be that you think your ideas some how distinguish you from the herd? so you hold on to them tenaciously to affirm your own percieved elevation? Thus to question those ideas- would lead to a personal crisis? what are a few raped girls compared to that, right dom?
They are only high falutin, fringe “ideas” to people who support the EDL, Rick. People like yourself, that is.
Canexpat.
Voltaire also said:
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
You complain that commentors are acting in a ad hominen way whilst exuding tribalism.
Voltaires quote is very relevant in today’s society as the establishment, and the media demonise and deport amongst other ethnic groups Muslims.
No mate, i belong to that demographic myself and live in east London, an area with its fair share of muslims. Smearing all muslims as child abusers is not a characteristic of the white working class. It is a characteristic of the EDL, many Ukippers and other racist knuckledraggers.
Doing anything about child abusers would also not appear to be a characteristic of your demographic. Protecting the weak, the vulnerable and the innocent is evidently not a characteristic of your demographic,
Being outraged and offended by the persona of the messenger would appear to be very much a characteristic of your demographic. How many lives do you demand to be be sacrificed on the alter of your ego? Is there a finite number or is it an endless process. Quetzalcoatl was not real, is not real and will not return to thank you for you sacrifices of other peoples lives.
Here’s another of your heroic “messengers”
http://www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/3k74vn/an-edl-paedophile-has-been-jailed-for-17-years?__twitter_impression=true
We have similar inbred neanderthals in Scotland called the Orange Order, who preach from the same pulpit.
@ Republicofscotland May 29, 2018 at 20:40
To be fair, the interviewer used a very inarticulate person to make his point.
Paul.
He’s probably nearer the average mindset of the bunch, or dare I say it, their spokesperson, what does that say about the others?
I can only think you are deeply insecure about your own intelligence. Who goes about calling people stupid the way you do?
It is not intellectual worth but moral worth that counts: so, take it easy on the former and work at the latter.
“It is not intellectual worth but moral worth that counts: so, take it easy on the former and work at the latter.”
Ah so Tommy and his followers are on a moralistic crusade, I’m sure you typed that with a straight face – I couldn’t.
I’m talking about you calling everybody stupid- nothing else
I said Tommy’s followers are of a average, and particular mindset, and that the guy being interviewed didn’t make his grievance clear.
You can wrap it up any way you like, but it will still come out looking the same, Tommy and his followers have a predominant problem with Muslims in Britain.
Infact Tommy who just happened to show up and was very vocal at a Pegida rally, in Europe has a problem with Muslims period.
‘Truth leaders’ letter to Iran’:
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/05/24/iran-letter/
I hope the Iranian Government took action to appeal; the deadline was yesterday.
It would have been an excellent chance to drag all the anomalies and contradictions into the open.
I didn’t think there were any sane people who even suspected that Iran had any part in 9/11.
Every day I awake to more news which simply confirms my suspicions, that the US is full of lunatics.
If Greece wasn’t enough to show the undemocratic nature of the EU, if Catalonia wasn’ t enough, we now have Italy, where the rests of a democratic election have been nullified.
results
This graph shows you all you need to know
https://twitter.com/GeertNoels
The Germans will not let go, and if the Italians so not break away then their society will literally collapse and die.
This is a weird one. Hope the Russian lady got her money’s worth.
‘
4. GAVIN AND PAYSKI
A fortnight ago, as he tried to throw up flak to distract from his ‘flirtation’ with a former colleague, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson warned a Russian cyber attack on the UK could kill ‘thousands and thousands’. Today, the Mirror has followed up a Mail on Sunday scoop that he is set to give Lubov Chernukhin, the wife of a former Putin ‘crony’, a tour of the Churchill War Rooms (plus dinner), after she bid £30,000 in the Tory black and white ball fundraiser last week. I suspect the real problem won’t be the dinner or whether her husband really is a Kremlin ally. It will be whether any minister can use a publicly-funded venue like the CWR to raise cash for party politics.’
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-waugh-zone-monday-february-12-2018_uk_5a815701e4b08dfc9305b8e8?guccounter=1
Essential article on the key role of British intelligence in creating the Russiagate myth. All Russiagate Roads Lead To London As Evidence Emerges Of Joseph Mifsud’s Links To UK Intelligence.
Great, thanks.
@ Rick Green May 28, 2018 at 07:47
‘Paul Barbera
The catholic church was no more ‘at it’ it seems than other comparable institutions- public schools for eg: if i may say so, for somebody evidently alive to media agendas, you seem to have swallowed one of their favourites, bashing of the catholic church. There was-unlike these muslim gangs- no systematic pimping and rape of chiildren/young girls for sport. Hushing the things up was yet another thing the chruch shared with the society at large. And what is the evidence that this abuse stretches back ‘centuries’? there is plenty of evidence that this awful problem, whihc certainly does exist in church as it does in society at large (partiuclarly- and this is perhaps a better comparison with muslim gangs- among rockstars) largely has its roots in the permmisive society born in the 1960s (the very moment the world entered the church at Vatican ii).’
I suggest you watch this two hour video: ‘UNREPENTANT: Kevin Annett and Canada’s Genocide Documentary’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL6ekLwB_h8
If you read Cathy O’Brien’s book ‘Access Denied: For Reasons of National Security’ you will find the priests were heavily involved in MK-Ultra, and in related Satanic Black Masses.
JP II was involved with big money laundering through the Vatican Bank for the drug cartels, and he used the bank’s cut to fund ‘Operation Gladio’, Solidarity in Poland and the Death Squads in Latin America, as well as the Vatican Bank being involved in huge banking scams:
read ‘Operation Gladio’ by Paul Williams.
Archbishop Paul Marcinkus allegedly raped, then had kidnapped, 15 year old Emanuela Orlandi. He is said to have visited her in her captivity, before she was murdered (some of the background is in the following Guardian article; I believe the case was also included in Paul William’s book): ‘Girl missing since 1983 was kidnapped on Vatican archbishop’s orders, police told’:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/24/internationalcrime.catholicism
JP I was going to ‘sweep the Augean Stables’ of the Vatican, including removing Marcinkus from the Vatican Bank and sending him somewhere he could do little harm, and he was going to remove all Masons from the Vatican (there were said to be about 100, from priests right up to Cardinals). In the early hours of the day he was going to announce the massive changes, he was poisoned (David Yallop ‘In God’s Name’).
JP II, who was informed of all JP I’s proposed changes, kept everything as it was, including Marcinkus in the Vatican Bank.
As for Vatican II ‘bringing the World into the Vatican, it was an excellent initiative, which the unholy JP II did all he could to roll back.
And the Canadian Boarding Schools scandals and the Irish Boarding Schools and Convents scandals went on long before the 1960’s.
Also, I witnessed JP II personally give Communion to General Benny Murdani, the architect of Indonesia’s genocidal invasion and 25-year brutal occupation of East Timor.
The Vatican certainly seems to just LOVE war criminals: Bliar, Pinnochet, Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Ante Pavelić; and provided Vatican Passports to many Nazi war criminals to enable them to escape to Latin America and elsewhere.
I was brought up as a Catholic, but now I call myself a Non-Denominational Christian.
I am of course aware their are wonderful, brave, caring and saintly people in the Catholic Church, but the Vatican I regard as a cesspit.
‘General Benny Murdani, the architect of Indonesia’s genocidal invasion and 25-year brutal occupation of East Timor.’
No, he wasn’t. Nor was he genocidal. He arranged for many ET students from Fretilin families to study in Java, some of whom became resistance leaders and still speak well of him. The Dutch Catholic Church has always assumed Portugal would leave and ET would join the NEI or Indonesia. The final border tractate between the two colonial powers had a clause giving the Netherlands first right of refusal to integrate ET should Lisbon leave. The Indonesian Church and Murdani wanted to strengthen their position in Indonesia by including a new Province, though just 10% were Catholic the rest animist. The Church in ET preferred Indonesia to the Communists. During Vatican II delegations from Indonesia [known as the Theyssen delegation after the Bishop of Larantuka] and Lisbon met to discuss a ‘Goa scenario,’ blessed by Salazar. Sukarno however was more concerned with first securing West Papua. The hard work of Catholicising ET was done post 1976 by Indonesian Divine Word Missionaries, many of whom remain there. The Vatican had required them to be neutral, and most were. Many became pro Independence and were better trusted by the people than ET born clergy. In 1975 there were almost no ET born priests, native seminarians from pro integration Apodeti and UDT families went to nearby Flores to study The Church continued to ban the faithful from joining Falintil until 1986. The coup and ethnic conflict between east and west ET in 2006 was supported by the Church, the western districts having been majority pro Indonesian and anti Communist in 1975.
@Paul Barbara
I missed this. Thanks for all the information-it is too much really to respond to. i am aware of most of these scandals. You should not have read from my post that i think the vatican was without scandal before the 1960s. There are stories in Bocaccio for example which treat the sin and scandal of the Church in Rome was even at that time notorious.
That is bit of a scatter gun approach however. Imagine if somone were to say to you: what are the crimes of the british state though history? or the french state? The church is twice as old as either. And has 1.2 billion adherents.
The hitler connection began its life as a soviet lie btw.
You realise that the relaxation of church attitude to freemasons- remember it was the church that condemned consistently the evil of freemasonry from i think as early as the 18th century- began in the 1960s under the modernists (many of whom were of course masons)?
Did you watch it? Newsnight? Me too. It was engineered.
I think it was their best effort so far, but of course they have had two months to work on trying to get something credible.
When Dr Christine Blanchard made a statement on the release of Yulia Skripal back in April she said at the beginning she would not be taking questions. Unfortunately this has been the problem throughout. I am saddened to have changed my original opinion with tonight’s programme on BBC2. In fact I think she was the only person interviewed to mention the word “Novichok”, an American patented military-grade nerve-agent. I will not say too much at the moment. Salisbury Hospital was £12.5 million in debt at the beginning of this year. My guess is that in the flow of things some money will be flowing in the hospital’s direction. They may even start a fundraiser from the brilliant care given to the Skripals. You may say that I’m a cynic, but I’m not the only one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-42852666
It didn’t tell us anything different and when faced with the critical questions, none of the interviewees could offer an explanation. As Kirsty Wark summarised at the very end – extraordinary.
Unfortunately, for the vast majority, it provides a plausible closure to the squalid affair, which was the likely aim of the item.
That is what they want – closure. Then in twenty, thirty, forty years time, when an apology is offered, the then current generation will be asking who the Skripals were.
This is an issue, like the unmentionable issue which started the “war on terror”, which all decent people must never see buried. It is the responsibility of good people to fight for the life and freedom of Yulia Skripal who I have reason to believe is incarcerated at Porton Down.
For many people, the world stopped turning after the other unmentionable matter – and with good reason. The evidence was empirical and recorded for all to see – and question. With Salisbury, it is circumstantial and speculative – and will be extremely difficult to maintain any degree of effective scrutiny. The government will expect people to trust their version of events, despite the obvious weaknesses – and the vast majority will do just that, as their daily diet of informative news comes from the likes of Newsnight and similar programs on the MSM. Job done, the BBC.
In reality, we are no more than a few enlightened (or cursed) individuals, who have dared to peek inside Pandora’s Box and can see horrors writhing within. But what is another when we have all those unmentionables from Gaza to New York? Who cares, John? The official narrative may suit all parties, including the Russians, who are masters of the long game. What may they extract in future when Salisbury is long forgotten and another crisis unfolds?
Sadly, we may never know.
@ John Goss May 30, 2018 at 00:04
Your petition is still floundering around at 1,087, yet the Tommy Robinson petition has 496,173 already!
By the way, TR’s rants outside the court would be more convincing of his detestation of paedophilia (as opposed to Islam) if he hadn’t allegedly engaged in it himself: ‘ANOTHER PAEDO PATRIOT: https://2maxreport.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/another-patriot-paedo/ ) and according to another website, stayed a friend of an old EDL buddy who was jailed for 17 years for paedophilia:
‘Far Right Watch on Twitter’:
http://pegida.trendolizer.com/2018/03/far-right-watch-on-twitter-1520190043.html
If these allegations are true, it shows TR’s rage to be hypocrisy.
I’ve just signed the TR petition, not because I agree with it, but because I wanted to get this message attached to it:
‘I’m signing this not because I agree with it, which I don’t, but so I can inform people that according to ‘ANOTHER PAEDO PATRIOT’, he himself was involved in a gang-rape of a minor: ‘..t could be said that paedophilia is an EDL tradition, with former leader Tommy Robinson leading by example. As I’ve mentioned before on numerous occasions, Tommy Robinson’s ex-bodyguard defected to the left through close friends of mine and he told them many personal things about Tommy. One of the things he said was that Tommy Robinson and some friends of his got a 15 year old girl from Dunstable, coked up and drunk after an EDL demo. Tommy and his friends then gang banged the poor girl in a drink and cocaine fuelled session of child rape. Apparently the poor girl was in a terrible state when the ex-bodyguard drove her home….’
I order for an unsubstantiated claim to gain traction it is helpful for the claim to be logically coherent.
According to you Robinson is a “peado because he had sex with a 15 year old girl.
Pedophilia is concerned with sexual relations with children who have not reached puberty. Most 15 year old girls have reached puberty and therefore any sexual relations with a 15 year old girl would not constitute pedophilia. The word you are looking for is Hebephilia.
But hey who needs accuracy of language when you are trying to smear someone.
The Newsnight Salisbury interview appeared to contradict Porton Down , who described Novichok as a very toxic substance , with no antidote. Porton Down was advising the medical staff on the best way of mitigating the effects.
You don’t need an antidote to x in orded to mitigate the effects of x. Try x = flu for example. (Not that I believe HMG over the Skripals but its good to be absolutely precise)
Your Mr Robinson has also been at the forefront of pushing the ‘white genocide’ meme in relation to farm murders in South Africa, a campaign designed by Boer separatists on whose behalf Brits held a protest last Saturday, supported by UKIP speakers. Photos can be found on South African white separatist facebook sites. I won’t link to them, the racism is appalling.
can you point me in the direction of information on this? i don’t know much about it but someone i know has mentioned it in the past.
Meanwhile (LFI) MP’s get it in the neck for victim blaiming in the recent Gaza protests, as they visit Israel on a jaunt.
https://skwawkbox.org/2018/05/29/labour-mps-react-to-gaza-massacre-by-posing-for-tourist-snaps-in-israel/
Tory led council in England, who bury the poor tell the poor folks relatives they cannot attend the funeral or have the ashes, infact they have no say whatsoever over their dead loved ones because they’re poor.
It’s a Tory led cost cutting exercise, that prevents loved ones from saying goodbye.
https://evolvepolitics.com/tory-council-bans-poor-families-from-relatives-funerals-in-horrific-cost-cutting-exercise/
If Mr Goss really belives that the Americans have patented Novichoks perhaps he could provide us with the details e.g., the patent number, where it is registered etc. In the meantime I think we can dismiss we can take the view that what he says without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I’m waiting for his first post claiming that the murder of Babchenko was a false flag aimed at the man who he has never ever criticised.
“In the meantime I think we can dismiss we can take the view that what he says without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Well if that’s the case, we can dismiss the whole British governments claim that Russia is the guilty party, can we not?
Unless of course you take Boris Johnson’s word for it.
” In the meantime I think we can dismiss we can take the view that what he says without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Are you asking for the dismissal of unsubstantiated assertions or that we are to dismiss the very idea that we may dismiss unsubstantiated assertions? Could you clear that up?
If the former, do you have any evidence for any of the various (around 21 I think) official accounts of the Skirpal/Skripal event itself? The fact that so few can even agree on their name is oddly poetic. I wonder if a phenomenon is occurring similar to the years of hearing ISIS, ISIL, IS and Daesh referred to contemporaneously, as if the script was being hastily assembled and handed to a cast already on stage and performing.
I’m sure you’re right. Novichok, which means “newcomer” in Russian, was never manufactured as such in Russia or the Soviet Union. This is a name the Yanks gave a nerve-agent manufactured in the Soviet Union. Since then hundreds upon thousands of animals have died unnecessarily in the US and at Porton Down to test nerve agents of oen description or another.
“he [Shulgin] went on to say.
“The principle of operation of the bullet consists in equipping it with binary components which interact with each other upon impact. And this is what we read on the page 11 of this official American document, “At least one of the active substances may be selected from nerve agents including… tabun (GA), sarin (GB), soman (GD), cyclosarin (GF), and VG, …VM, VR, VX, and [attention!] Novichok agents,” Shulgin cited the US document.
“Moreover, searching by the key word “Novichok” on the digital source google.patents.com you can find over 140 patents issued by the United States, related to the use and protection from exposure to the “Novichok” toxic agent,” he stressed.”
http://tass.com/politics/1000583
Here is one where Novichok is mentioned.
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4106402.html?thread=940928162
just watched gavin williamson and his “interview” with richard madeley. what can you say?……gavin williamson – i’m tempted to call him a lying, disingenuous, repugnant cunt, but that would be unfair, to lying, disingenuous, repugnant cunts so i’ll refrain from such insults.
Hear! Hear!