The terrible death of Dawn Sturgess casts a new shadow over the Salisbury Affair. Dawn appears to have been a popular and well grounded woman with close friend and family ties, whose life had taken a downward turn before being cruelly ended.
The illogical, inconsistent and shifting government narrative over events in Salisbury and Amesbury had appeared so ludicrous as to be tragi-comic. Any sense of amusement is now abruptly dispelled. But less us take a serious and sober look at the government case.
Savid Javid stated today:
We know back in March that it was the Russians. We know it was a barbaric, inhuman act by the Russian state. Again, for this particular incident, we need to learn more and let the police do their work.
Actually, we know no such thing and, contrary to Javid’s deliberate insinuation, the police have adduced no evidence that it was the Russian state.
The media appear to have entirely excluded from the narrative that Porton Down specifically stated that they cannot determine the origin of the poison that attacked the Skripals. Nor has the OPCW. There are scores of both state and non-state actors who could have produced the nerve agent. No evidence has been produced as to the physical person who allegedly administered the poison. In short, nothing so far has been shown which would lead any reasonable person to conclude a case against the Russian state was proven.
I believe this following is the government narrative currently. I hope I am not mistating it:
Russia has a decade long secret programme of producing and stockpiling novichok nerve agents. It also has been training agents in secret assassination techniques, and British intelligence has a copy of the Russian training manual, which includes instruction on painting nerve agent on doorknobs. The Russians chose to use this assassination programme to target Sergei Skripal, a double agent who had been released from jail in Russia some eight years previously.
Only the Russians can make novichok and only the Russians had a motive to attack the Skripals.
The Russians had been tapping the phone of Yulia Skripal. They decided to attack Sergei Skripal while his daughter was visiting from Moscow. Their trained assassin(s) painted a novichok on the doorknob of the Skripal house in the suburbs of Salisbury. Either before or after the attack, they entered a public place in the centre of Salisbury and left a sealed container of the novichok there.
The Skripals both touched the doorknob and both functioned perfectly normally for at least five hours, even able to eat and drink heartily. Then they were simultaneously and instantaneously struck down by the nerve agent, at a spot in the city centre coincidentally close to where the assassins left a sealed container of the novichok lying around. Even though the nerve agent was eight times more deadly than Sarin or VX, it did not kill the Skripals because it had been on the doorknob and affected by rain.
Detective Sergeant Bailey attended the Skripal house and was also poisoned by the doorknb, but more lightly. None of the other police who attended the house were affected.
Four months later, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were rooting about in public parks, possibly looking for cigarette butts, and accidentally came into contact with the sealed container of a novichok. They were poisoned and Dawn Sturgess subsequently died.
I am going to leave you to mull over that story yourselves for a while. I believe it is a fair statement of the British government narrative. I also believe almost (but not quite) every single sentence is very obviously untrue. I hope tomorrow to publish a detailed analysis explaining why that is, but want you to look at it yourselves first.
One final thought. I trust that Dawn Sturgess will get a proper and full public inquest in accordance with normal legal process, something which was denied to David Kelly. I suspect that is something the government will seek to delay as long as possible, even indefinitely.
Important typo, Craig –
The policeman was Bailey, not Rowley!
This story is EXACTLY the same as the one a couple of months ago except with different characters. What’s the betting the policeman will turn out to be Special Branch?
The Skripals survived but Dawn Strurgess died? I don’t care if I’m called a conspiracy theorist, but something stinks to high heaven about this. Did the Government need a death to prove their case? She was expendable whilst the Skripals were more valuable? Her Mother was complaining last week that her daughter wasn’t receiving all the care that she could.
Exactly! Just spreading rumours and lies and stories they made up.
Did we ever find out who the ‘blonde lady’ was who was captured on CCTV in the vicinity of the Skripals – just prior to their mysterious joint collapse in the park? Because of the mind-boggling amount of lying which is going on presently, one does wonder if Dawn Sturgess was the mysterious ‘blonde lady’ and was a witness [or more] to what really happened to the Skripals. She was, thus, an inconvenience to MI6, Special Branch, and the Government.
“I don’t care if I’m called a conspiracy theorist, but something stinks to high heaven about this”
You’re not a conspiracy theorist, but the British press wants you to think that. That’s why public discussion has been completely shut down (even The Independent has blocked reader comments now) – because they don’t want the British public to become cognizant of how many people don’t believe their own absurd conspiracy theory.
alex Z
I hope you realise that your comment is itself a bit of a conspiracy theory?
Maybe there really is a conspiracy. You, know, a conspiracy by the government to fool the people.
Alex, it should be a cause for concern in the whole nation that the MSM are closing down public comments when those comments do not conform to the official narrative or the paper’s own narrative. It does remain the case however, as with the Skripals that 95% of the nation do not believe the Government’s yarn.
”Did the Government need a death to prove their case?”
No. The UK government engineered a change to the OPCW’s remit days ago and now has manufactured a fraudulent case to lay baseless blame on Russia’s doorstep. This ‘isolates’ Russia further, justifies more anti Russian legislation and sanctions and gives the US and UK a route to now bi-pass the UN security council (veto’s will no longer work) when going forward with its next attempt at ‘regime change’, probably in Iran.
(Iran days ago accused a US war ship of arriving off Iran’s coast with chemical weapons similar to Syria and has accused saboteurs of poisoning their water supplies across the country leading to protests)
Right now the OPCW is headed by a Turkish man, who seems to be following Erdogans pivot to Russia and the east, not towing the Nato/western anti Russia line. Once this changes, and the right man takes the chair, the OPCW will will no doubt blame Putin farts for the bad weather in Cardiff.
If you do not want needless war, death and destruction both in the ME and blow back in Europe don’t enable it with your vote. Vote for a peaceful party focused on fixing your own country and its many faults.
On another note to the Scottish on here, a question –
How sectarian and bigoted are the Scottish people and the establishment in general? I ask after reading about a Catholic priest being spat at and physically abused by Unionists a day or two ago and Police Scotland basically ignoring it as a minor incident. They also ignored videos of Unionist orange c*nts calling for Catholics and a handicap child who supports Celtic be burned on bonfires and a national news paper asking is it time catholic schools be shut down. Are the majority all filthy sectarian scum or is it a fringe Unionist element because the police and political class seem silence is the best approach to anti Catholic hate crimes there?
To try and answer your question, where to start?
General consensus is that sectarianism has been in long term decline for decades. Certainly less prominent than “when I were a lad”. Many of the Orange Order bands are based in the old, mining villages. The mine bosses used divide and rule to limit the potential for a coal field wide strike, hence Croy next to Twechar. There was a march assembly point in my local park the other week, the surrounding streets were packed out with the cars of the march followers. If you were to encounter these people in any other context you would feel sorry for them. To quote John Cooper Clarke, “a sociologist’s paradise”. To some extent I suppose that the lodges and bands provide some kind of internal social cohesion in villages that were abandoned by the state.
Politically sectarianism is a different matter. While the knuckle draggers are a small minority, if you can capture their votes, they are loyal. Hence Tories and Labour competing to woo the Loyalist vote. We’ve just had the act targeting sectarianism at football matches struck of the legislative canon after a campaign to give individuals the right to “be 90 minute bigots”. All very libertarian and admirable but being a “90 minute bigot” leads to stabbings and you don’t get to be a 90 minute stabbing victim.
I have to take exception to your assumption that banning Catholic education is necessarily a sectarian move. Sectarianism cuts both ways. Segregated Catholic education breeds sectarianism every bit as much as the Lodge does.
The only extended period of time in British Island in my life was a weeklong vacation in Scotland. I cannot recommend highly enough. Hard to find anything wrong,with minor exception of a small store in a Highland village where one shelf was adorned with a note “DLA PRZYJACIQK Z POLSKI” — if you know Polish it is rather hilarious.
Scotland is often a target of misconceptions and misinformation. For example, McBeoth was nowhere as sinister as portrayed by Shakespeare — who also misspelled his name. Here, you present a story, without attribution, that could happen only in Northern Ireland, if it happen at all. Only there you have Unionist and Republicans who oppose them, Orange is important only in NI and in the Netherlands because of House of Orange, Celtic people dwell in Scotland with nary a problem etc. Interestingly enough, there are clues to the question: where did the tolerant folks of Northern Ireland go? To wit, the head of Scottish Conservative Party is a Northern Irish Catholic happily married to her female spouse. So some of them move to tolerant Scotland.
rackt interesting comments especially about Iran – that is most concerning as the Skripal affair was clearly a forerunner to the false flag attack in Syria and this is no different.
Mist001 – I thought that there were policemen involved in both cases was too much of a coincidence too. Especially as the ‘Audi’ appears to be the policeman’s car in this instance. There can’t be any doubt in my mind that the Police Officer in this case was Special branch!!
Could this ‘novichok’ have been some kind of binary agent – one half the skripals contracted from the doorknob, and the other half administered later in town? wouldn’t that explain the delay in effect, and how the police office was only lightly poisoned?
A binary agent means that two relatively non-toxic chemicals are reacted together to produce the toxic nerve agent. Each component by itself is relatively non toxic.
I was wondering that … not knowing anything about binary agents, does binary mean it can be transported as two separate compounds which is safer, but needs to be combined in some careful way, likely exact proportions, before use
or can it be used in two parts, the first being harmless till you are exposed to the second? Seems kind of unlikely and hard to organise doses, but I don’t know the answer.
You have the big picture. The idea of applying them separately, is in principle do able, but with the caveat that it might not work at all due to contamination off other chemicals, or a reaction that is not foreseen. Theoretically possible, but very doubtful as an assassination tool.
“Theoretically possible, but very doubtful as an assassination tool.”
This sentence sums up the whole nonsensical story for me. The notion that Russian agents travel to Salisbury with a lethally toxic nerve agent, smear it on a door handle (risking self-poisoning, being filmed, being caught red-handed or being followed, especially since Skripal was being watched by MI6), and then chucking the remainder in a bush somewhere… Well, I can think of a dozen far more effective and less risky ways to execute a double agent.
And let’s face it, if the Russians wanted to terrorize Britain, why not smear Novichok on an escalator in Oxford Street tube? Or on random car door handles?
Hehe, Novichok Man hits again! The whole thing was laughable until yesterday evening. But as you remember i the Litvienko case, thy “hitmen” were also notorious sloppy, splattering Polonium all over inner city London! London was like Chernobyl!!
But that is typical Russians, it is their MO, they cant do anything right! Or MSM want’s us to believe at least.
and highly unlikely that others would come into contact with both agents. This would also have been clear from the testing done which found lab quality novichok, not some precursor.
According to Vil Mirzayanov A-232 was manufactured in the USSR using methoxyflurophosphonic acid and amidin.
I strongly suspect the methoxy is not something you’d normally want to lick. …Also the reaction produces hydrogen cyanide as a by product so that’s nice too.
Read this
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
According to one of the Russian scientist who ACTUALLY developed this family of nerve agents a cotton wool bud was sufficient quantity to be lethal, so the police have got there work cut out to find the “Container, Vile, Syringe, cotton wool bud holder”
According to Vladimir Uglev, one of the Russian scientists who developed so called ‘novichok’, says
” No one ever had any binary weapons. I think that several of my colleagues, just like I did, tried to work on this idea, but I don’t know a single binary weapon, not for VX, not for other types of chemical weapons. At least for the period up until 1994.”
When he was asked by the interviewer “The media reported that “Novichok” supposedly exists as a “binary weapon” – the toxin is transferred via two less dangers substances, and when it is time to use the chemical agent, only then are the substances mixed together. It has also been suggested that “Novichok” could have been used for the attempt in London. Are the series of agents referred to as “Novichok” binary weapons?
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
Was Dawn Sturgess the blonde woman in the shopping centre video?
People need to consider that question without preconceptions.
Indeed – I created a summarized pic (see below for my post), feel free to spread that or/and add more clues.
Ooops. Didn’t see your post before sticking my oar in.
Yes, she did look like the mysterious blonde woman. Perhaps it’s the fact that she was an unintended witness to what happened to the Skripals (or more – perhaps coerced into something by MI6, they knowing that she was ‘vulnerable’) and thus needed to be dealt with by MI6 / Special Branch, et al.
Ducky Lucky
Yes that a good theory too, Charlie and Dawn saw too much? Perhaps it wasnt an accident Dawn fell victim of after all?
I also wonder what made this couple suspicious to begin with. Did they perhaps approach Skripals’ in one way or another? Even culprits?
Have the media raised this cctv/couple since? I havent really been following their reporting.
So far as I’m aware it’s not the first time that MI6 and Special Branch have manipulated trusting and weak minded individuals into doing things for them. That also includes convincing someone (a drug addict – Dawn Sturgess) to spray something in the faces of two strangers in a park on the pretext that it’s a prank (not knowing that substance was a powerful hallucinogen: BZ).
In fact, in much the same way that silly woman was manipulated into spraying VX into the face of the uncle(?) of Kim Jong Un.
Dawn Sturgess then becomes a liability – and one which can’t be allowed to linger and threaten ‘the narrative’.
My friend has a different theory, she thinks that Dawn and or Charlie may have been bribed to courier something to the Skripals even possibly, discounting doorknobs, something that only became lethal when they opened and touched it. (impregnated paper?) while sitting on the park bench. Something which may have inadvertently cleared away afterwards.Or it could have been delivered by hand to Sergei’s house.
Don’t forget the red bag. The blond in the CCTV is carrying a red bag and witnesses claimed that a red bag was removed by police from the Skripal scene, even though Yulia was not carrying a red bag.
I think that it is too much of a coincidence that the couple in the ‘inadvertently’ released CCTV (which has been flushed down the memory hole by the authorities and media) bear remarkable physical similarities with the two victims from Amesbury.
Also, recent CCTV images were released to the media of both Amesbury victims within days of the incidents while still nothing of the Skripals after months.
By whom was the video released at all?
If that was by the BBC or other government-friendly outfit, originating with the police, you can safely assume that is NOT her.
(Unless she will become the government’s ‘fall girl’, which imho is unlikely though cannot be ruled out.)
BJ my question also. It could merely a CCTV image from another part of Salisbury where this couple were at innocently shopping or something and they’ve released it to try to establish some kind of link between the Skripals and their overdose.
Melanie Phillips is calling for Nigel Farage to be made prime minister.
Well, if she honestly imagines that Farage will do anything sensible with regards to Brexit, then she’s just as deluded as the rest of the MSM. To simply stomp out of the Single Market will prove to be something of a disaster to the UK. You can’t simply leave something instantly into which you’ve been increasingly integrated for the past 45 years. Leaving must be a gradual process. Fools like Farage never understood that.
What she proposes opens the door to despots and tyrants. All the German passport holding/EU pension receiving Farage needs to do is become the leader of a political party, publish a manifesto and stand in a general election and get enough MPs elected, instead of sniping from the sidelines and acting like a king maker.
another angle on the story, nerve agents for sale 1994/1995 when soviet scientists went unpaid for months –
https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/7905-novichok-has-already-killed
I know I said this before, BUT..
there is still the case of the couple of the suspicious couple CCTV back in march, that very much resemble Charlie and Dawn!
I summarised it here (check link below), feel free to spread:
https://i.imgur.com/fWAovRq.jpg
ah I can’t type today..sorry for the typos.
Excellent, I feel vindicated, not everyone agrees with me 😀
Yes, the resemblances are striking, but if these are Charlie and Dawn how can their handlers have expected them to keep quiet for the last four months?
Is there a D Notice on this perhaps?
I mean what we have here, is a couple, that were close to the skripals’ on the same day they were attacked, and they look very much like the same couple that somehow also got poisoned!
It would be great if media/police could refute or dig into this cctv couple once and for all.
There was another comment on another site I was reading which notified that both wear (likely) white or light-gray colored gloves which could be labeled as suspicious. Most likely color of gloves is rather black/leather, atleast for men. White/grayish, not that common..
Perhaps the police had id. the couple as Charlie and Dawn but wanted them to keep quite for their own safety etc?
Maybe some witness protection?
sigh, *quiet
My thoughts are that the incident with the Skripals *started life* in a much more simple form, in that Dawn and Charlie were just supplying drugs to Sergei, that the drug was Fentanyl as per the paramedics and original info from the hospital (on both occasions) I can’t even begin to imagine how and why it escalated into the unwieldy mess we have currently.
Another point being the Novichok, the only mention of Novichok by the Swiss Lab claims it was very pure (possibly planted for the OPCW to find. Final point Rowley and Sturgess didn’t get ill together like the Skripals, I think it was five hours later before Rowley got ill, suggesting to me that he took something later in the day.
Great job and worthy of wider circulation.
That is compelling to say the least. Charles Rowley in particular has distinctive and strong features – and the (albeit pixelated) images show a man with those same strong and distinctive features.
Marry that with the fact that he’s walking with a woman who looks exactly like Dawn Sturgess, and it’s beyond doubt that it’s them.
This is yet more confirmation (not that more is needed) that Security Services / Intelligence Services are the orchestrators of this whole thing. And it just goes to show incompetent, inept, but utterly ruthless, they are.
Ducky Lucky
Iam glad you also notice Charlies’ facial features coming through in that pixelated image face of that man.
There is like an “arch” going from the left top of his eyebrow going down against the high/skinny cheekbone of Charlie and with his eyes somewhat “deep” down and sheltered under his eyebrows, those are additional similarities that I think is very resembling to the facial structure of the man in the CCTV recording.
On top of that, the woman resembling Dawn has clearly dyed her hair, you could sense a gray/darkish original tone under that blondish color – just like Dawn. Besides the forehead itself is very resembling of Dawns’ which is quite square and tall – also like Dawns’.
I attach an image here for whatever its worth::
https://i.imgur.com/FoQJGUf.jpg
I am thinking of notifying the police about this unless media dig into this.
Thanks very much for these images; they’re great.
There’s no doubt it’s them.
There is no coincidence that the two persons being sought in relation to the Skripal poisoning affair are now the same pair (Rowley and Sturgess) who have been ‘poisoned’ with “Novichok”.
If we had a proper mainstream media, these questions would already be being asked. They’re not because they’re (the MSM) a fraud.
It would be interesting to know if any of Dawn Sturgess’ (RIP) friends or family recognise the large red bag in the CCTV as belonging to her
Ms Blancmange
I agree, I dont have Facebook but from what I know her profile have some photos up, there might be some clues there.
Yet another clue,
The red bag:
A red bag was seen by one witness laying beside Yulia apparently!
““She had a red bag at her feet. He was gesturing at the sky, doing some kind of movements with his hands.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/first-picture-daughter-poisoned-russian-spy-fighting-life-hospital/
Picture of that bag, blurry unfortunately:
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/lb-comp-handbag.jpg
Now, if one check the CCTV of the Skripals’ walking outside the restaurant you see that they carry no such red bag! Check video here:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poisoned-russian-spy-daughter-seen-12156418
I understand that you have a strong ideological investment in a narrative where Westminster are the bad guys who are always to be mistrusted and where any enemy of Westminster is, prima facie, your friend, but please knock it off. It’s just getting sad now. Sometimes the murderer is simply the guy with a long track record of murdering political enemies.
You mean MI6?
They’re probably his employers.
I’m sure if he reads that comment Craig will sign up to the compelling official narrative he’s outlined above.
You mean MI6 and CIA?
It’s an ideological commitment to following the evidence rather than the spiel, the hand rather than the birdie.
“Sometimes the murderer is simply the guy with a long track record of murdering political enemies”
No doubting your own ideological investment!
“I understand that you have a strong ideological investment in a narrative where Westminster are the bad guys who are always to be mistrusted…”
Fair enough. Now why don’t you share your reasons for trusting the government? This is precisely what the mainstream media have failed to do. They write plenty of stories containing suspicions about Russia, but fail to divulge their own ideological motives for believing a government which, even as I write, is effectively holding Julian Assange as a political prisoner; a government which has blocked the publication of an inquiry into the funding of global terrorism that allegedly points the finger squarely at Saudi Arabia.
So,try to convince us with good arguments: “It’s getting sad now” is not an argument, it’s a mere variation on a Trumpism.
One question. Air ambulance shout at 16.19. Why did it go north, away from Salisbury? It went on a 40 miles trip before returning to Devizes and then heading south to Salisbury. Why?
That’s another aspect of this saga which the MSM are leaving well alone.
A little footnote to that is that Wiltshire Air Ambulance recently (in May, I think) moved to a new base at Melksham.
This is right next to Avon Rubber/Avon Protection Systems, where Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is M/D responsible for CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear) things.
https://twitter.com/BardenGridge/status/1014437717046976514
Barden, that absolute idiot HdbG resurfaces again! Shame the Novichock is nowhere near him!
Say, mister Luke Harding, as you know ‘bad guy’ is a vague term, and often used in a tautological way (as you do here).
So look Luke — why don’t you, having excellent ties to the government, present some solid evidence that would make it clear who the bad guy really is.
Martinned, unfortunately, based on this Government’s track record, they are most certainly not to be trusted – the blatant lies about the Skripals were simply outrageous and the changing story every time questions were asked which rendered the Government’s story untenable. As Orwell said ‘In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act’. I think that applies here. We have a right to question the Government’s ridiculous narrative and behaviour because it has far reaching implications for the Nation in that the world nearly came to a ‘hot’ war because of it – we were definitely on the brink – and we are not off that brink yet. This is a deliberate attempt by the British Government to get the OPCW to blame Russia given the very recent changes made to it.
Surely, it’s about time there was a police investigation into the lies and corruption of this government??
why do you assume a police investigation would find the truth about anything? Or even wish to? Clearly you have no experience of the modus operandi of the Met Police in London.
As an example, they never did find out who killed Jill Dando. They were, however, very quick to fit up another weak-minded patsy, Barry George. Did they ever even try to really find out?
The are not enough police in the UK to conduct such an investigation! 😉
Good summary, although you could have included the following element in the government narrative, that:
Despite a huge deployment of manpower and technology -ostensibly to ensure that the environment of Salisbury was not contaminated by nerve agents, the relevant agencies managed not to find said container which has allegedly killed Dawn Sturgess..
I’m not sure that one could reasonably have expected the police to find a vial of toxin that was – at the time of the intensive searches – stored in a vault at Porton Down.
or stored under Dawn Sturgess’ sink …
Possibly.
Had a good chuckle.Thanks for that! made my day. As did seeing the Tories eat themselves over brexit and Johnson running away (undoubtedly to plot the removal of May for his own premiership).
I don’t really care much about this subject. But it’s simply disgusting and unacceptable that governments like that of the UK can stockpile stuff like this. It’s not like there’s any positive use for these nerve agents —any country that develops and stocks them should be ostracised.
We will never know what happened in Salisbury. If Britain didn’t take part in the production and stockpiling of these things, though, it would allow us to eliminate at least one of the many possibilities.
Hatuey makes a basic point here (not about not really caring much BUT) about the underlying horror that c.73 years after “winning” a World War, the “victors” and our public are still making, profiting from, and readying chemical weapons attack plans. Hardly a world community brave enough for #friendlyrelations.
We know Porton Down had already synthesised it. This they had to have to do the chemical comparison. How much they have is another question.
What evidence is there of “stockpiling”? Perhaps they only have a small sample (or number of) for testing purposes?
…and for carrying out assassinations of inconvenient stooges: Rowley and Sturgess.
@ Hatuey July 9, 2018 at 11:2
Including, obviously, the US who are dragging their feet about disposing of their CW’s (obviously, they are stil nedded in Syria or other ‘False Flag’ scenarios, apart from their intended use in WWIII, which they are intent on fomenting).
Yes Paul, everybody seems to forget that the USA have not disposed of their chemical weapons despite their stated commitment to do so within a timescale.
Perhaps something in there re fate of the Skripal pets and the baby-wipes?
Does the government’s story necessarily have to make sense to the hoi polloi – they’ve given up on us months ago? Perhaps its not us that these lies are aimed at but at their fellow members of the elite. They need an inner core of true believers. These lies are meant to shore up their support.
What are the two main themes of these lies?
First of all anti-semitism. All those who oppose the elites are accused, in various ways, of being anti-semites.
The seond predominant theme seems to be poisoned gas – whether its Iraq, Syria or Salisbury. Poisoned gas which itself, often sub-conciously, reminds us all of the extermination camps.
This seems to be the psychological fortress into which the elite has withdrawn. If the elite know one thing – and by and large they are not that bright – is that the worst and most evil thing to happen in modern history is The Holocaust. They know, if they believe in this in their inner souls, that they cannot be wrong. That everyone on the outside does not believe this and can therefore be dismissed or even disposed of. (Most people on the outside of course recognize the horror of the Holocaust, but are equally horrified at many other horrors, many of them much more current and dealable with).
But the two themes of anti-semitism and poison gas give the elite their inner sense of bonding and virtue and superiority. they are fighting the good fight. “We few, we happy few.”
Perhaps all this propaganda is aimed at them – where it is effective – rather than us.
It’s their (the Government’s) way of saying that they can tell whatever outrageous lies they like. They know that we don’t believe it, but they don’t care as there is nothing we can do about it. I hope one day that ‘they’ are proven wrong – and in dramatic fashion.
@ Ducky Lucky July 9, 2018 at 11:38
Be careful what you wish for – that day will come, but it won’t be ‘Joe Public’ who brings them to account, but the ‘Big Guy in the Sky’ on Judgement Day. And us plebs will also be judged.
When the police are doing an investigation of a serial killer case, one of the tools they use is geography. They pin a map on the wall and stick a pin representing each crime scene location on the map, the assumption being that the killer likely lives somewhere inside the circle represented by the pins, probably close to the centre, and commits his/her crimes in familiar surroundings where he/she knows the “lay of the land”, hiding places, and escape routes. They also consider means, opportunity, and motive.
Porton Down happens to be near the middle of the present circle of “novichok” poisonings, and has the means. MI6 has the opportunity and motive. And controlling them all is a rabidly anti-Russian minority government needing to keep Brexit problems out of the news, justify spending a fortune on new Trident submarines, aircraft carriers, and F-35s, prop up NATO which should have been disbanded in 1992, and sabotage the World Cup football finals and upcoming Trump/Putin summit. I think it is May and Johnson who need to “come clean” and confess their involvement; not Putin.
You’re trapped in an old, real world mindset. Get with the program daddy-o, magical realism is where it’s at.
@ Terry July 9, 2018 at 11:34
Hope you’ve got a good life insurance policy.
Our PTB don’t like the truth getting out.
Added to which of course Terry, in the same location lives Pablo Miller and Hamish de Bretton Gordon!
Craig, Have you seen the BBC interview with Charlie Rowley’s Brother where he says in answer to a question about Charlie’s condition: “Oh, he’s fine. I don’t know how he got involved with that lot”. The BBC interviewer does not ask him what he means in that strange answer but to me it begs the questions: (a) Has the Brother spoken to him on the phone; (b) Who exactly is “that lot?”. See Skwakbox for clip.
I hadn’t seen that. I’ll seek the clip on Skwakbox.
You can’t really be surprised at a BBC journalist failing to ask searching or intelligent questions; they’re not exactly known for their inquiring minds.
Found the link: https://skwawkbox.org/2018/07/06/video-bbc-ignores-amesbury-brother-hes-fine-im-not-sure-how-he-got-involved-with-that-lot/
Friend of Rowley and Sturgess also seemed to think things were improving.
“the other day they were in a critical condition, now they’re stable”
That ITV video and text report it linked to, disappeared some hours after they appeared.
https://twitter.com/BardenGridge/status/1014840973703204864
I went dumpster diving and found a few things. The most interesting is that Matthew Rowley, Charlie’s brother was caught with £600 worth of heroin and cocaine in Salisbury city centre a few years back. So the comment about “I don’t know how he got involved with that lot” is probably not referencing drug users.
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/14424402.Drug_dealer_who_tried_to_ditch___600-worth_of_heroin_and_crack_cocaine_spared_jail/
When Sam Hobson was on trial for his bus stealing antics part of his defence was “Defending Hobson, Sarah Langford said he had a number of difficulties, suffering from depression which was not helped by the amount of drugs and alcohol he has taken since the age of 15.”
Considering his friendship with Charlie I assume he still takes them. This suggests to me that the novichok was not due to contaminated drugs. Of course Sam may prefer other drugs or now non at all. Finally Dawn and Charlie have been an item for at least two years.
Seems a fair reflection of the Government narrative, but I would add this: The Skripals have, under no duress at all, subsequently both decided not to ‘avail themselves’ of any support from the Russian government and requested that their family do not attempt to contact them.
@ Adrian Kent July 9, 2018 at 11:49
‘…The Skripals have, under no duress at all, subsequently both decided not to ‘avail themselves’ of any support from the Russian government and requested that their family do not attempt to contact them.’
And you have proof of the ‘no duress’ bit? Please elaborate, we’d love to check out the sources you rely on (or is ‘Access Denied: For Reasons Of National Security’?).
Adrian, There is a problem there. Firstly, under international law, whether the Skripals say they do not want any contact with the Embassy, the Embassy are fully entitled to visit in any event, it cannot be denied. But of course, this Government has contravened international law in the Skripal case on all levels. Secondly, I don’t believe for a millisecond that Yulia Skripal does not want contact from her family. She was organising her wedding in Russia, she had put her dog in kennels, she had contacted her cousin when she could – and let’s tell the truth here – up until Russian State Television broadcast that phone call, the UK Government was telling us Sergei and Yulia were at death’s door, comatose and with little chance of recovery. They even told the Court of Protection this. Slight problem therefore, with your statement
I have long demanded a Coroner’s Inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly. I also demand one into the death of Dawn Sturgess. A Band 1 legal practice is on standby to pursue the first immediately upon my election to the House of Commons. I see no reason why it could not also pursue the second, and every reason why it must. I need £10,000 in order to stand for Parliament with any chance of winning. My crowdfunding page has been taken down without my knowledge or consent. But you can still email [email protected] instead, and that address accepts PayPal.
Yes, The Amesbury incident was indeed a farce, now it is a tragedy, as it has caused the death of Dawn Sturgess, a person, as far as we know, not connected in any way, with the initial Salisbury incident. I find it very odd.
The notion that a very powerful nerve agent has not degraded in the span of 4 months does not sound true, as this stuff when mixed, has a short shelf life. The idea of a “dropped unidentified item” is “sought” and can hardly explain it.
Missing person, non appearances, and no forthcoming information, has all but sown distrust.
The longer the search for the mystery object fails to succeed the more it appears like an object / surface treated with the toxin being presented to the couple by a third party who then removes it for disposal. My money’s on a deranged chemist from P D who is mixing up novichok home brew to satisfy their attention seeking / God complex agenda.
It’s possible. Someone with a downer on druggies. The bench the Skripals were sitting on was in a sketchy area.
The Skripal attack doesn’t have to have been a random attack on “druggies”. The culprit wants to escape detection and try out their “Russian” nerve agent on the public. Who better to target than the old Russian geezer, ralltling around in a city of only 45 K citizens. A bit of perfunctory internet searching would reveal him to be an ex GRU agent. Ergo, the authorities go looking for a foreign assassin rather than someone close to home.
Vivian, not that I think it can be highly likely, just to add to ‘deranged chemist’ theory. He could believe he is cleaning this world killing those who are not worth living.
@ Tatyana July 9, 2018 at 14:13
So why use ‘Novichoks’ (of course we don’t have a clue whether that was the agent used, but plenty of reasons to suspect it wasn’t)?
Who want’s to discredit Russia, as they are screwing up the Brits and it’s cronies from the ‘Regime Change’ planned for Syria (Roland Dumas, ex-French Foreign Minister, says he was told by high British officials in 2009 (two years before the ‘so-called’ ‘Arab Spring’) that Britain planned to topple Assad with the use of mercenaries – ‘Roland Dumas: The British prepared for war in Syria 2 years before the eruption of the crisis’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeyRwFHR8WY (and there is plenty more on that on the web, but sweet FA in Hansard, despite my putting the info to my own New Labour ******* Jim Firzpatrick, who not only refused point blank to put my information before Parliament, but admitted he had not checked the links I sent), and my having put the info before about a dozen other ‘Labour’ MP’s. with zero effect.
Not some becrazed ‘loner’ in Porton Down, but the PTB in the UK (and the PTB in the US and France). And their ‘cronies’, or perhaps their ‘Masters’.
There is a precedent for this scenario, namely anthrax attacks in USA in the form of a powder in letters. DNA evidence linked it rather convincingly with an American bioweapon laboratory, and the official version was that a person working there wanted a public scare that would increase the funding for that lab. Nowadays this is not as practical vector of attack as in pre-email era.
Geographical coincidence of Porton Down and Skripal attack, and now, Dawn and Rowley, requires to consider that it can be more than a coincidence. To plan sneaky attacks, it is good to do it not far from home, so you can figure fine details at leisure without any suspicious behavior.
Vehement denials that moving stuff out of Porton Down is impossible is not convincing, especially when we talk about a non-metallic and non-radioactive object storing few milligrams — do they perform full body cavity search for employees like in diamond mines of South Africa under apartheid?
The there is a question how sloppy can an investigation be when it is performed by hundreds and has top national priority? An object presumably found by Mrs. Down was present and visible for months. Actually, annals of botched criminal investigations are rife with examples when only the “favorite theory” is pursued while neglecting the correct one, however more probable. Needless to say, pursuing an alternative theory and contradicting several ministers of Her Majesty Government borders with high treason. But a search for suspicious object would not contradict anything, so assuming that those hundreds of agents did something, they should do that.
This makes me thinks that whatever poisoned Dawn and Rowley, it appeared in a public place well after the Skripal incident.
@ Piotr Berman July 10, 2018 at 01:00
There was no doubt whatsoever where the anthrax came from. But the important thing about it is it was deliberately (albeit childishly) sent with messages implicating Muslims, BUT it was aimed principally at just 2 Senators, both of whom were blocking the Patriot Act.
After the ‘attack’, both Senators stepped into line, and gave their blessing to the noxious Act.
Bet your bottom dollar they knew from whence the ‘anthrax attack’ had originated (well, the ‘orders’ anyway – the White House and Langley), but they also knew they could not do sweet FA about it, and caved.
“Wag the Dog” was a fine movie also.
Nothing to do with Salisbury but did anyone else see this disturbing tweet?
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1016200694611750913?s=21
Now THATS a full fat Blairite of a comment
So, she’s a disciple and fan girl of mass murdering war criminals .. why is that disturbing?
Please, now Iain, Nobel peace prize winner
I thought you had to have some kind of war criminal taint to pick up that bauble anyway?
Theresa May’s government is in meltdown.
Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck.
Trump is threatening to withhold cooperation from Mueller.
There’s no way the SNP could fuck this up.
Nicola Sturgeon; “Hold my beer”
Nicola Sturgeon twitted on “the philosophical questions that Artificial Intelligence poses for the human race.” I suspect she was thinking about her Prime Minister who is often dubbed “Maybot”. Does she pass the Turing test (behaving like a human) or not?
Off the top of my head, we’ve had the inconclusive investigations into the anthrax powder case in the US (perpetrator unknown); the Britam defence emails implicating US/GCC/UK countries in a false flag event in Syria (dismissed as being a hoax email); We’ve had the mysterious death of Dr. David Kelly; We’ve had the Litvinenko murder and the attempted murder of the Skripals; We’ve then had various chemical incidents in the Syrian civil war, all of which make no strategic sense for the Assad regime to have carried out (they were in the ascendancy during the alleged releases); And now the Amesbury incident.
At some point, the establishment narrative stops making sense. For nothing else, the govt narratives in these cases displays an unusual amount of incompetence in finding out who committed these crimes or the govt is a guilty party to these acts (in various degrees). I can’t say which. But for the govt to trot a story and hope we all bite shows a remarkable hubris on the part of the elites in taking public confidence for granted. Brexit shook them, but this rambling Salisbury narrative has exposed them as persistent liars. Putin didn’t undermine public confidence in govt. They did that all by themselves.
My condolences to the Sturgess family.
@ Tunde July 9, 2018 at 12:37
What is one of the first questions a good detective asks – Cui Bono?
Dead simple, really.
Andrea Loathsome (the one that’s been an MP for about three and a half minutes) is now dictating governments policy (in her own mind at least). Have we fallen so far that we are now to be run by a far right, Christian evangelical cult (check spelling)?
What makes you think that she’s anymore ‘Christian’ than Alexander Boris Johnson?
@ Vivian O’Blivion July 9, 2018 at 12:58
‘..(check spelling)?..’
Very nice – I like it!
Well Vivian, they certainly control politics in the USA.
Thank you, Craig for your analysis. I have to say, I am yet to be convinced that anyone was poisoned by a nerve “agent” (these chemicals were formerly known as nerve gases, presumably due to their volatility).
The Skripals were treated for opiate poisoning, meaning that the symptoms that they were exhibiting were consistent with opiate poisoning.
My understanding is that Rowley and Sturgess were opiate drug users.
I have a degree in chemistry and a passing interest in biochemistry and molecular biology. Nerve agents are small chemical compounds – “organophosphates” – which disrupt the transmission of nerve signals across synapses. Their relatively simple structure is not a sign that they are easy to make. I would think that you would still need to know what you are doing. And take appropriate and very stringent precautions.
These are exceedingly toxic substances. You really don’t get any second chances with them. Nor is there any delay in their action. “Military grade” poisons must act quickly in the field to eliminate troops.
Opiates are a different matter altogether. They are complex compounds with relatively large molecules, all similar in shape and action to morphine, from which many of them were derived. They act on the brain.
The great difference between these groups of chemicals and their specific action I think rules out the possibility that the symptoms exhibited by people exposed to them would be mixed up by medical professionals.
This affair, to me has incompetent government agency written all over it.
What are the properties of the agent in question? Is it volatile? I was joking about Miss Marple in the bathroom etc., earlier but possible murder it is no joking matter. Yes, of course a hot shower would release a volatile substance more quickly. Very grim if this is what happened.
John2o20,
You’re an expert. Can’t quite remember what Gove said about ‘expert analysis….. 🙂
@ John2o2o July 9, 2018 at 12:59
‘…This affair, to me has incompetent government agency written all over it….’
They don’t need to be credible, because the 4th Estate is ‘under their thumb’.
But on another tack, given your degree and ‘passing interest’ I am sure you would be interested in Mark Purdey’s book about organophosphates, ‘Animal Pharm’.
But here is a 35-minute video interview of the (now dead) author (the book was actually finished off by Mark’s brother, after Mark died):
‘What causes BSE, CJD & MS? Organic Farmer Mark Purdey on Organophosphates (2001)’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MheeiX2w8JU
One heck of a guy. RIP, Mark.
“I also believe almost (but not quite) every single sentence is very obviously untrue. I hope tomorrow to publish a detailed analysis explaining why that is, but want you to look at it yourselves first.”
That is going to be a very long post.
From Global Research:
The Government “or at least the Metropolitan Police – must know the answers to if their narrative is correct, and for a very simple reason, as you will see. So here goes:
“What were Mr Skripal’s and Yulia’s movements on the morning of 4th March?
Why were their phones switched off?
Did Mr Skripal see anyone or anything suspicious near his house that day?
According to witnesses in Zizzis, Mr Skripal appeared to be very agitated. Was this because he was feeling unwell?
According to witnesses in Zizzis, Mr Skripal appeared to be in a hurry to leave. Was this because he had an appointment to keep?
What did Mr Skripal do after he left Zizzis?
Can he confirm or deny that the couple seen on the CCTV camera in Market Walk, one of whom was carrying a large red bag, are him and Yulia?
Did either Sergei or Yulia have a large red bag with them that day?
What are his last memories before collapsing at the bench?
Is Mr Skripal prepared to make a public statement answering the above, and will members of the international media be free to ask him questions?
“So why must they know the answers to these questions? Simple. Because all they have to do to get answers to them is ask Sergei Skripal.”
I think this is exactly what the government wanted to happen. It is the only way they can revive and escalate the story at the same time as extricating the Skripal’s from it. The Skripal’s can vanish now without ever having to face any scrutiny. This escalation immediately puts everyone questioning the false flag on the back foot and gives the compliant MSM the ammunition to demolish any critics. The simple facts that will never raise their head in the public arena are that the secrets services behind this would kill anyone or disappear anyone at the drop of a hat if it meant they could control even one days news coverage. Sympathy for this woman is the weapon that will destroy anyone who questions anything about the Skripal false flag for evermore.
Sympathy may slow the questioning for a short while. Perhaps that’s not such a bad thing if it makes us think before we express ourselves. However it hasn’t stopped questions about other deaths, eg. David Kelly, Diana, Kennedy
ON July 3, there was a Russian report that the UK police had identified 2 Russians who left the UK shortly after the Skripal incident. I predict these two individuals will be blamed both for the attack on the Skripals and the death of Dawn Sturgess. The UK will demand the individuals be extradited to the UK for trial, and Russia will refuse. That then will used by the UK as confirmation that Russia was behind the whole episode.
“Allegedly, the suspects left the UK within 24 hours after the assassination attempt and are now in Russia. According to a source [in Scotland Yard], the British police assessed this discovery as “a major breakthrough” in the case.”
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/rusvesna.su/news/1530593365
I think it was leaked to the Sun or SKY news first just before the second exposure story was made public. The timing of the leak and the reporting of the second exposure was too good to be true. Just as the football everyday part of the world cup ended and there was a two day break before the 1/8 finals. It also coincided with the EU renewing the sanctions against Russia (although that was likely a certainty anyway).
Assuming a conspiracy, I suspect that shortly a container will be found. Presumably there will be a tenuous link between the container and Russian suspects. Will probably have “Russia 2018” written on it. QED.
It’ll have a little sticker on it saying, “If found, please return to Vladimir Putin, The Kremlin, Kremlin Square, Russia, Moscow’. They’ll probably even include a picture of a hammer and sickle next to it.
Mighty Drunken, yes and also, that the Government will not release the sample to Russia or the OPCW until it suits them to do so.
There are seven nonstop flights from Heathrow to Moscow daily. The odds that UK police would not have been able to identify two Russians who left the UK within 24 hours after the assassination attempt and are now in Russia are vanishingly small.
Why not call for an inquiry by international, independent experts to look into the claims that this is just a single event of Russia dumping its novichok on the UK?
Its inquests in such cases are not worth the paper they are written on, as the government can arrange some kind of cover up by bribes, lies, and threats until a delayed inquest finally takes place.
Just look at the still delayed inquest for over thirty years into the ambush and murder of alleged IRA gun runner Francis Bradley which resulted in Derrick Bird’s rampage in Cumbria a few years ago so that the government’s planned assassination of Olof Palme could take place for an alleged non-nuclear extinction of the USSR and its bloc.
Or the covered up murders of Gareth Williams, Gudrun Loftus and Steve Rawlings.
And the parents of Royal Cadet Steve Hilder are still awaiting word about what happened to him.
How about an independent autopsy of what happened too poor Dawn.
The UK is gentleman-like murder incorporated!
Who would you trust in your merry band of “international, independent experts”? No, me neither …
Good question, though I have long criticized Anglo-America scientists cooperating with their murderous covert states, like the ones who have been claiming that North Korea is continuing to conduct nuclear tests when they are just quakes they have helped make there with fiber laser satellites and Boeing X-37Bs spy planes, and claiming they are tests.
Will provide a list of some experts who offer some hope of honesty.
Tou don’t seem interested, but I would start with the Swiss experts who disputed convicingly the French claim that Yasser Arafat died of a massive heart attack rather than a massive dose of pollonium-210.
Trowbridge, and the murder of those cadets at that army base in surrey that has never been investigated properly. The UK is the centre of gentlemanly murder!! I’d say so only the general public will not hit the streets and apply serious pressure on this Government. I’m hoping if Corbyn gets in he will order an independent enquiry and release the facts!!
I assume that the latest couple were suffering from cholinergic toxidrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxidrome#Cholinergic which lead to the diagnosis of poisoning by novichock … does anyone know if there is any other evidence to support this conclusion?
” I also believe almost (but not quite) every single sentence is very obviously untrue. ”
Well that was the intent with which it was written.
Looking forward to the detailed analysis and the exposure of the real culprits.
@ Kempe July 9, 2018 at 13:26
‘..Looking forward to the detailed analysis and the exposure of the real culprits.’
By the way, where were you on the dates involved?