We are continually presented with experts by the mainstream media who will validate whatever miraculous property of “novichok” is needed to fit in with the government’s latest wild anti-Russian story. Tonight Newsnight wheeled out a chemical weapons expert to tell us that “novichok” is “extremely persistent” and therefore that used to attack the Skripals could still be lurking potent on a bush in a park.
Yet only three months ago we had this example of scores from the MSM giving the same message which was the government line at that time:
“Professor Robert Stockman, of the University of Nottingham, said traces of nerve agents did not linger. He added: ‘These agents react with water to degrade, including moisture in the air, and so in the UK they would have a very limited lifetime. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution – it would effectively destroy the agent.'”
In fact, rain affecting the “novichok” on the door handle was given as the reason that the Skripals were not killed. But now the properties of the agent have to fit a new narrative, so they transmute again.
It keeps happening. Do you remember when Novichok was the most deadly of substances, many times more powerful than VX or Sarin, and causing death in seconds? But then, when that needed to be altered to fit the government’s Skripal story, they found scientists to explain that actually no, it was pretty slow acting, absorbed gradually through the skin, and not all that deadly.
Scientists are an interesting bunch. More than willing to ascribe whatever properties fit the government’s ever more implausible stories, in exchange for an MSM appearance fee, 5 minutes of fame and the fond hope of a research grant.
According to the Daily Telegraph today, the unfortunate Charlie Rowley is a registered heroin addict, and if true Occam’s Razor would indicate that is a rather more likely reason for his present state than an inexplicably persistent weaponised nerve agent.
If it is however true that two separate attacks have been carried out with “novichok” a few miles either side of Porton Down, where “novichok” is synthesised and stored for “testing purposes”, what does Occam’s razor suggest is the source of the nerve agent? A question not one MSM journalist seems to have asked themselves tonight.
I am slightly puzzled by the picture the media are trying to paint of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess as homeless, unemployed addicts. The Guardian and Sky News both state that they were unemployed, yet Charlie was living in a very new house in Muggleton Road, Amesbury, which is pretty expensive. According to Zoopla homes range up to £430,000 and the cheapest ones are £270,000. They are all new build, on a new estate, which is still under construction.
Both Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess still have active facebook pages and one of Charlie’s handful of “Likes” is a mortgage broker, which is consistent with his brand new house. They don’t give mortgages to unemployed heroin addicts, and not many of those live in smart new “executive housing” estates. Both Charlie and Dawn appear from their facebook pages to be very well socialised, with Dawn having many friends in the teaching profession. Even if she has been homeless for a period as reported, she is plainly very much part of the community.
Naturally, there is no mention in all the reports today of MI6’s Pablo Miller, who remains the subject of a D notice. I wonder if he knows Rowley and Sturgess, living in the same community? It should be recalled that Salisbury may be a city, but its population is only 45,000.
The most important thing is of course that Charlie and Dawn recover. But tonight, even at this early stage, as with the entire Skripal saga, the message the security services are seeking to give out does not add up. Mark Urban’s piece for Newsnight tonight was simply disgusting; it did not even pretend to be more than a propaganda piece on behalf of the security services, who had told Urban (as he said) that Yulia Skripal’s phone “could have been” tapped by the Russians and they “might even” have listened to her conversations through the microphone in her telephone. That was the “new evidence” that the Russians were behind everything.
As a former British Ambassador I can tell you with certainty that indeed the Russians might have tapped Yulia, but GCHQ most definitely would have. It is, after all, their job, and billions of our taxes go into it. If tapping of phones is seriously presented as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.
I think this incident and England’s march through the World Cup are no coincidence. May is or now was heading for a nightmare for her boycott on that evil mr Putin. A man who clearly loves killing people in way that jeopardises his reputation and therefore investment of billions on the World Cup.
For May to avoid missing the World Cup final with englanve she needs a massive plausible reason. Whack a couple druggies and job done.
I’m a bit concerned to go into my garden in case of contamination. I mean this most deadliest of substances that doesn’t seem to kill, but is persistent for months which have included much rain, could have been carried in the wind and. But on the bright side I do have a rat problem so hopefully it will cure that problem as well as Mays impossible dilemma!
I think you overestimate England’s chances of getting through to the WC Finals; although…..a semi-final against Russia (though highly unlikely) would be amusing.
Great fun. Thanks. 🙂
The narrative gets even more twisted. First it was spread on the door but diluted due to rain. Now two people have unfortunately been hospitalised four months later. But if rain could wash off the toxin how has it lasted 4 months?
Well now we’re being led to believe that this couple found a discarded syringe in the park ‘metres from where the Skripals were found on the bench’. So that raises the logical question: if the toxin was smeared on the front door of his home why would a syringe show up in another part of town next to where the Skripals were found?
And how was Bailey exposed if Skripals were spiked?
‘Found a discarded syringe’? After a two and a half month of thorough clean up? How embarrassing is that?
Why should a junkie living in an expensive modern House, see the need to pick up a used syringe and use it. usually these people, due to their addiction, are very organised when it comes to preparing and taking their drugs, they also know well that HIV is something they can avoid by not sharing needles, so why would they even consider such a move?
How desperate this Government must be to use the same old fake news story to degrade itself some more in public eyes.
The sooner an election comes the better. And let us not forget what the Tory’s are aiming for, massive amounts to defence, crashing the NHS before a panacea is offered, with large cash injections promised. Further eroding the benefit structures with go slow and a max. minister turnover every few month. Trading with the whole world when the WTO is already broken, with trade wars looming and nutters smarting to go to war with Iran.
Thats what we will be voting for, hang on, did I mention tax/price rises and the usual carry on off shoring?
“Why should a junkie living in an expensive modern House, see the need to pick up a used syringe and use it. ”
Yes, it’s ridiculous when you consider that a registered addict can get a new syringe from any high street chemist, for example Boots, for free.
I thought Urban looked embarrassed last night as he was giving ‘his’view.
Porton Down is 7,000 acres of badly secured government property. Porton Down used to fire cannisters containing nerve agents and bacterial compounds at targets on the land. Its known that unexploded cannisters are lying around containing nerve agents and deadly bacteria.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-porton-down-britains-controversial-12192830
Government cuts mean that Porton Down is badly secured and there has been at least one publicly acknowledged incursion. How many more have there been that no one knows about – because no one is watching?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-top-military-sites-targeted-7964572
I have no idea whether the poisonings in Salisbury and Amesbury came from Porton Down. However what is obvious is that Porton Down is an accident waiting to happen and we need to view this as a wake up call.
Terrorists will be interested in deadly compounds like Ebola. Isis don’t care if they die whilst taking out the UK so all they would have to do is infect themselves and mingle with the public. How do we know that isn’t what happened? If so it was lucky that the cannister may have contained something not too deadly. Exactly what we don’t know since the public are being kept like mushrooms – in the dark. Could it have been a cannister containing ergot? That gives people hallucinations, vomiting and headache, but it can also lead to necrosis of the limbs. Chief Constable Pritchard said of Bailey “he’s well, he’s sat up. he’s not the Nick that I know but of course he’s receiving a high level of treatment”. Nor have we seen Sergei Skripal. Is it because he is badly maimed? According to his wiki entry, Skripal was a diabetic so would have been harder hit than Yulia
However, whether or not the poison came from Porton Down, its time for our government to clean up those 7,000 acres littered with hazardous waste.
No way they picked up the smoking “novichok syringe” and used it.
Now it will be “found” and turn out to be Russian.
A child wouldn’t believe this stuff.
The syringe will be found and it will be made by Russian manufacturer Putin & Sons of Moscow.
They will also find two Russian passports nearby, which will be those of the Russian hitmen involved.
Bernhard at Moon of Alabama has noticed that Sturgess and Rowley’s friend Sam Hobson has been in jail before. He was jailed for six months for stealing a bus and joyriding it but he served just nine weeks of his sentence. Does anyone else wonder if he might have agreed to work with police on some future project (in which he plays a significant role in shaping a narrative) in exchange for his freedom?
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/8678155.Amesbury_bus_joyrider_jailed_for_six_months/
Nine weeks is nearly half of a six month sentence, I think this is the norm for good behaviour, only in special circumstances or bad behaviour in jail will full term be served.
Indeed. My first thought was that these two are intelligence assets. Assets who have either been used, double-crossed or made some hideous mistake.
Update on BBC Radio 4
the previous tame expert was Hamish someoneorother, and the latest sock puppet is Paul Cosford – who has reassured us that we are all safe, unless we aren’t, and then it’s too late, and that in any case we should all be clever little children and not pick up strange objects, talk to strangers or go to the World Cup* . Apparently the latest incident is not connected to any of the sites previously associated with the Skripal incident – all of those had been thoroughly cleaned and are totally safe. Maybe.
He restated that Novichok would only be effective through the skin if administered in high doses – God those Russians are crap at producing “military grade” nerve agents. Surely, if it needs to be ingested, they’d be far more effective if they could poison their innocent victims via the seafood menu at Zizzi’s (or the skip behind The Salisbury Kebab Emporium)?
One thing is becoming quite apparent: The Man on the Clapham Omnibus is far more likely to be rendered thoroughly nauseous by the BBC’s propaganda than by a sinister Russian nerve agent
* In passing, I read yesterday that the UK Ambassador had attended the footie in Moscow “to provide consular assistance” to any fans who wished to avail themselves of it. Now, according to the Radio 4, the Russians are begging the British Government to lift its boycott on the World Cup, to allow British dignitaries to attend the game against Sweden this weekend. How sinister! I bet they are just trying to “kettle” the Royal Family into a sports stadium and perform medical experiments on them.
Ceterum censeo Putin dunnit
I heard the glib John Humphrys with Hamish de Bretton Gordon and the other Gordon, Gordon Corera too. They are all being wheeled out again from the BBC props department, having been dusted down and given a polish.
“having been dusted down and given a polish.”
Ha, ha, ha, the British public is all too aware that you cannot polish a turd.
But you can, as the famous riposte goes, roll it in glitter
How can people who produce such immaculately pure Novichok that there could only be a few labratories in the world capable of producing it be so incompetent that they would try to kill people using it topically, when to do so effectively requires heavy application and plenty of time to act?
Who benefits?
Three areas as I see it:-
The Russian world cup is being reported as far too much of a success, a great time is being had by all. Even the few Engish fans that travelled, are reporting how wonderful it is and this included a Sun reporter who had the audacity to say that the Moscow tube is better than London. Not at all the narrative of the British government!
The utter cluster **** of Brexit that is coming to a head at Chequers tomorrow, which is widely reported as a showdown for the conservative party and/or a total capitulation to Europe in equal measure.
NATO summit next week, all of the European members need to be galvanized against the evil Russian threat, and the worry that President Trump will give the family silver to President Putin, along with withdrawing troops and good forbid tell them they should start paying there commitment of 2%
The narrative of another ‘Russian’ ‘novichok’ ‘attack’, seems to me goes a long way to counter all of these worry’s of the British totalitarian state.
And don’t forget a big argument between Gavin Williamson and the Treasury for a huge boost to Defence Spending (which Hammond has resisted thus far…).
Excellent summation!
Story on R4 Today changed slightly. Now sealed off park is 1 mile from Skripal house. Inference novichok discarded after doorknob smearing.
I wonder how those two police women pictured standing on duty a few yards away from the ‘military grade nerve agent smeared on the doorknob’ wearing absolutely no protection whatsoever are getting on.
The timing of it alone for it to become news on the first day of a two day world cup break makes it highly suspicious to me. I actually think it has just as much about fucking Trump over as it is about targeting Russia. one week before Trump comes here and just after that his meeting with Putin issues are out of his control now. His agenda for both the visit here and the Putin summit are totally screwed. If he was going to try and repair relations with Russia (big “if” I know) then he will be impeached before he even returns to the states. I can only imagine that Trump will want to lynch May by the time he gets here.
Who can argue with an idiot that uses ZOOPLA to make their case to disprove the media narrative? Why don’t you look at either of their Facebook pages? It reveals that both are indeed unemployed, christian and formerly troubled.
The clear narrative today as far as MSM is concerned is a botched clean up operation in Queen Elizabeth Park in Salisbury, which was not regarded as part of the events in March.
A botched clean-up operation for a substance which, we were told, is easily washed away by rain…?
Who can argue with an idiot who is so blind he can’t see the worst government in years stumbling from crisis to crisis. At least he does some background checks before opening his mouth. Which you apparently don’t
Sorry if this has already been posted, but where do these people work? Perhaps their work or friends have connections to Porton down?
Seems farfetched that therre are poison laying around in the village and not 1 but 2 people from the same household happen to consumate it.
Rest assured this will renew the psychological-warfare/anti-russian stance by media, gov, well west in general…
Have they got any pets….
08:12 BBC Radio 4
John Humphries has just stated that Sergei Skripal is still in hospital. Is this correct?
Again – he was “a former Russian agent” (He’s still Russian, but was formerly a UK agent, that’s why the Russians imprisoned him)
The hypothesis is now that the Skripal “attackers” discarded something, which Amesbury’s very own Bonnie & Clyde recently picked up…….
Someone called Gordon Carrera – “There are clearly questions about Russia and Russian responsibility” – which Mr Humphries has now picked up and is running with – verbatim – “It MUST Russian”. “These guys were told by their masters in Russia …. they came to the UK…. put it in a syringe before squirting it on the Skrfipal’s door handle….. a reckless attack in a quiet part of the United Kingdom…. the Russians decided to use a highly toxic weapon….. no, you don’t have to swallow it……. a nerve agent is designed to be lethal and very very potent …. you can touch it the touch is effectively what infected Mr Skripal…… 48 people reported to the hospital as being contaminated”
Humphries: “Professor Paul Cosford and Hamish Bretton Gordon said you had to ingest it”.
At this point some Government suit (the “Security Minister”) is disagreeing with him: They clearly haven’t got their story straight
“The Russian State could put this wrong right…. I am waiting for the call from the Russian State. The World will know that Russia had a chance to right this wrong and protect the people of Salisbury and they refused to take it”
Did I really just hear that?
Did I really just
The Novichok that was smeared on the doorhandle was supposed to be in gel, you don’t normally use a syringe with a needle for smearing gel.
It looks like there’s an official policy of promoting a connection between the latest ‘Novichok’ poisoning and the heroin addiction and homelessness of the victims.
The first impression I got from the media reports was the suggestion that the couple might have been sleeping on benches or lying around all day in the park, completely stoned, when they touched a tiny quantity of Novichok that had persisted for four months.
England’s chief medical officer Dame Sally Davies seemed to suggest another unbelievable possibility when she gave advice to local residents: “I should also warn the public to be careful, as always of picking up any unknown or already dangerous objects such as needles and syringes.”
I can only think of one reason her her to say that in the context of the latest poisoning. That is the possibility that Sturgess and Rowley used a discarded syringe containing the nerve agent. I won’t even try to figure out the logic of that scenario.
“That is the possibility that Sturgess and Rowley used a discarded syringe containing the nerve agent. I won’t even try to figure out the logic of that scenario.”
Well, Brendan perhaps you will feel differently when you learn we can offer you………….DNA!
Yes, now we have the “container” – no matter how many months it has been out in the elements – I have faith that BRITISH forensic scientists (God bless ’em) will be able to lift a DNA profile from it. Because you know, it is completely impossible to plant DNA on anything.
And would you believe it, this DNA will just happen to perfectly match whoever it is the intelligence community has lined up to the be the culprit.
Don’t tell me you are not going to believe DNA…..????
Excellent. I’ve commented in detail at https://cliscep.com/2018/07/05/poison-in-the-air/
And so it begins:
Russian tit-for-tat retaliation against innocent England fans “who do not wish to avail themselves of consular assistance” https://www.rt.com/sport/431698-england-fan-monument-spartak-stadium/
Oh, the brutality!
Ceterum censeo Putin Dunnit
my concerns are the answers to the questions – what the f***ing hell type country I’m living in and who the f***ing hell type people are ‘running’ it and where the f***ing hell is the anger from the british people???
Sorry Jazza, but unlike the French (who are pretty good at protesting), the British people are only interested in drinking themselves to oblivion, reality TV, social media and currently the World Cup – that doesn’t leave much time for an in depth education in current affairs and global politics.
The Skripals’ pets were all killed apart from one cat which escaped. I said at the time this cat on the loose would be a killer. I blame this incident on UK government incompetence. They can’t even kill tame animals properly.
/sarc
Laughing out loud at the thought of a “Killer Cat” lurking in the bushes of the Salisbury Park.
Uh look at this!
Isnt the couple caught on CCTV regarding Skripal case looking very similar to
Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess?
Check htis:
Still image from CCTV: https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/brightcove/5745816754001.jpg
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/russian-spy-poisoned-hunt-for-blonde-woman-seen-on-cctv-minutes-before-sergei-skripal-was-found-a3783386.html
It’s a bald man walking with a blonde woman
Now here is a picture of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess: a bald man and a blonde woman
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/b6fe18d90aa071212ca47989b04597a5?width=650
It looks like their facial expressions too doesnt it?
Be very careful about assigning colour from the image of the couple. There is a clear specular highlight on the woman’s forehead from lights in the ceiling. There is a less prominent highlight on the man’s forehead with a zone of whitish hair in the centre and darker coloured hair to each side.. The true hair colour of the people can only be estimated from hair out of this illumination. In both cases, the hair to the side is darker than skin colour, more so for the man than the woman.
“Be very careful about assigning colour from the image of the couple. There is a clear specular highlight on the woman’s forehead from lights in the ceiling…”
The hair on the top of the woman’s head in the video is almost silver grey. The hair on the sides of her head actually looks much closer to the colour of Sturgess hair in the photo. So you are correct. Don’t judge the colour of video woman’s hair from the top of her head. Assess it from the hair on the sides.
Well spotted. The men most definitely could be the same man. The plot thickens. Perhaps these two were originally involved in the Skripal poisoning, or just by sheer coincidence had their CCTV image published whilst out trying to ‘score’ in Salisbury.
Deb O’Nair
Yes exactly, are these people involved in the Skripal poisoning rather than falling victim accidently?
I think the face of the woman share the same forehead and eye/grin of Dawn.
Maybe I am completely wrong, the pictures are very blurry.
Another take,
https://tinyurl.com/ybvf5gfm
Was the couple at the same restaurants as the Skripal’s that day?
Here’s are another take,
http://oi65.tinypic.com/axiik5.jpg
Could this couple been accidently poisoned back then when Skripal was poisoned? Same restaurants or coming in touch in one way or another?
One would have thought tbat there wkuld have been a fingertip search of all locations identified from the initial incident and therefore all objects seized or removed as evidence or for examination.The police appear utterly clueless and negligent here if the official narativeis to be believed.
The Mail today:
“Ms Sturgess fell ill at 11am on Saturday and Mr Rowley started ‘making weird noises and acting like a zombie’ before collapsing later that afternoon, a close friend said.”
Are these the “right” symptoms?
And didn’t Mirzayanov say that the agent hydrolised rapidly, especially in a damp climate?
So how has it lasted this long?
Do zombies exist?
Breaking – UK government – Amesbury attack is not a targeted attack – but we will find out whodunit.
“Darn, the hoi polloi just don’t believe what we tell them anymore”
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201807051066059189-uk-nerve-agent-security/
Again like the Skripals, whatever substance was used, it was self administered unless there’s an employee or ex employee of Porton Down gone rogue.
It’s not the side-effects of the cocaine, that’s for sure.
Simples!
In Porten Down they dabble in producing illegal recreational drugs as a side job to supplement their meager salaris but some time forget to clean the equipment after novichok synthesis experiments.
craig
OPCW have new powers now………
“OPCW have new powers now………”
Courtesy of a UK-sponsored vote just a few days ago. It is almost as if they knew something was going to happen.
Did you know that novichok rozoviy was a variety of tomato?
Or that there’s a brand of sunflower oil on sale, also called “Novichok”.
We have the makings of a salad …..
According to The Guardian Dawn Sturgess collapsed at 10.15 and Charlie Rowley took ill 5 hours later.
The BBC website blithely announces “Novichok, a resilient and resistant nerve agent developed by the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s, takes effect within minutes”.
Logically then this new couple must have been infected at different times. Presumably Charlie Rowley encountered the substance after Dawn was hospitalised. In a different place.
It’s all about the facts with you, isn’t it, Mrs Picky?
ok my take. The vctims were both current or recovering heroin addicts, unemployed, middle aged. One report said both were parents, but clearly not living with family. She was living in a homeless shelter,he had recently moved into a smart flat – social housing “halfway house” rehab? – I assume probably rented by council, if soI wonder if landlord knew he was an addict – or maybe his family paid. Seems clear to me they got hold of some drug thinking it was heroin or something similar and it turned out to be novichok. Police realise they have to make it public. So how did they get it? Well on the black market. Did it come from PD? is there a leak there? Is there more around in which case other addicts are at-risk. Or were the victims targeted and if so, why?
Deemed to be expendable human beings, whose snuffing out could be used to perpetuate an increasingly ludicrous false flag? Who knows?
I would say that is a highly likely scenario Dom.
According to the Moscow Times in April, Ulyanovsk region-based farmer Alexei Yakushev has launched his own sunflower cooking oil branded “Новичок”.
I expect it’s that.
We are Golgafrinchans, Douglas Adams foresaw this. They were undone by an unsanitised telephone. I expect they tried to use a phone with encryption GCHQ couldn’t crack or subvert and this is their punishment. We have been warned.
If IndyRef2 ever happens here in Scotland expect incidents like this to occur North of the Border to emphasise that Scotland doesn’t have a Porton Down meaning we would be wide open if we became Independent.