In my last post I set out the official Government account of the events in the Skripal Case. Here I examine the credibility of this story. Next week I shall look at alternative explanations.
Russia has a decade long secret programme of producing and stockpiling novichok nerve agents. It also has been training agents in secret assassination techniques, and British intelligence has a copy of the Russian training manual, which includes instruction on painting nerve agent on doorknobs.
The only backing for this statement by Boris Johnson is alleged “intelligence”, and unfortunately the “intelligence” about Russia’s secret novichok programme comes from exactly the same people who brought you the intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s WMD programme, proven liars. Furthermore, the question arises why Britain has been sitting on this intelligence for a decade and doing nothing about it, including not telling the OPCW inspectors who certified Russia’s chemical weapons stocks as dismantled.
If Russia really has a professional novichok assassin training programme, why was the assassination so badly botched? Surely in a decade of development they would have discovered that the alleged method of gel on doorknob did not work? And where is the training manual which Boris Johnson claimed to possess? Having told the world – including Russia -the UK has it, what is stopping the UK from producing it, with marks that could identify the specific copy erased?
The Russians chose to use this assassination programme to target Sergei Skripal, a double agent who had been released from jail in Russia some eight years previously.
It seems remarkable that the chosen target of an attempt that would blow the existence of a secret weapon and end the cover of a decade long programme, should be nobody more prominent than a middle ranking double agent who the Russians let out of jail years ago. If they wanted him dead they could have killed him then. Furthermore the attack on him would undermine all future possible spy swaps. Putin therefore, on this reading, was willing to sacrifice both the secrecy of the novichok programme and the spy swap card just to attack Sergei Skripal. That seems highly improbable.
Only the Russians can make novichok and only the Russians had a motive to attack the Skripals.
The nub of the British government’s approach has been the shocking willingness of the corporate and state media to parrot repeatedly the lie that the nerve agent was Russian made, even after Porton Down said they could not tell where it was made and the OPCW confirmed that finding. In fact, while the Soviet Union did develop the “novichok” class of nerve agents, the programme involved scientists from all over the Soviet Union, especially Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia, as I myself learnt when I visited the newly decommissioned Nukus testing facility in Uzbekistan in 2002.
Furthermore, it was the USA who decommissioned the facility and removed equipment back to the United States. At least two key scientists from the programme moved to the United States. Formulae for several novichok have been published for over a decade. The USA, UK and Iran have definitely synthesised a number of novichok formulae and almost certainly others have done so too. Dozens of states have the ability to produce novichok, as do many sophisticated non-state actors.
As for motive, the Russian motive might be revenge, but whether that really outweighs the international opprobrium incurred just ahead of the World Cup, in which so much prestige has been invested, is unclear.
What is certainly untrue is that only Russia has a motive. The obvious motive is to attempt to blame and discredit Russia. Those who might wish to do this include Ukraine and Georgia, with both of which Russia is in territorial dispute, and those states and jihadist groups with which Russia is in conflict in Syria. The NATO military industrial complex also obviously has a plain motive for fueling tension with Russia.
There is of course the possibility that Skripal was attacked by a private gangster interest with which he was in conflict, or that the attack was linked to Skripal’s MI6 handler Pablo Miller’s work on the Orbis/Steele Russiagate dossier on Donald Trump.
Plainly, the British governments statements that only Russia had the means and only Russia had the motive, are massive lies on both counts.
The Russians had been tapping the phone of Yulia Skripal. They decided to attack Sergei Skripal while his daughter was visiting from Moscow.
In an effort to shore up the government narrative, at the time of the Amesbury attack the security services put out through Pablo Miller’s long term friend, the BBC’s Mark Urban, that the Russians “may have been” tapping Yulia Skripal’s phone, and the claim that this was strong evidence that the Russians had indeed been behind the attack.
But think this through. If that were true, then the Russians deliberately attacked at a time when Yulia was in the UK rather than when Sergei was alone. Yet no motive has been adduced for an attack on Yulia or why they would attack while Yulia was visiting – they could have painted his doorknob with less fear of discovery anytime he was alone. Furthermore, it is pretty natural that Russian intelligence would tap the phone of Yulia, and of Sergei if they could. The family of double agents are normal targets. I have no doubt in the least, from decades of experience as a British diplomat, that GCHQ have been tapping Yulia’s phone. Indeed, if tapping of phones is seriously put forward as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.
Their trained assassin(s) painted a novichok on the doorknob of the Skripal house in the suburbs of Salisbury. Either before or after the attack, they entered a public place in the centre of Salisbury and left a sealed container of the novichok there.
The incompetence of the assassination beggars belief when compared to British claims of a long term production and training programme. The Russians built the heart of the International Space Station. They can kill an old bloke in Salisbury. Why did the Russians not know that the dose from the door handle was not fatal? Why would trained assassins leave crucial evidence lying around in a public place in Salisbury? Why would they be conducting any part of the operation with the novichok in a public area in central Salisbury?
Why did nobody see them painting the doorknob? This must have involved wearing protective gear, which would look out of place in a Salisbury suburb. With Skripal being resettled by MI6, and a former intelligence officer himself, it beggars belief that MI6 did not fit, as standard, some basic security including a security camera on his house.
The Skripals both touched the doorknob and both functioned perfectly normally for at least five hours, even able to eat and drink heartily. Then they were simultaneously and instantaneously struck down by the nerve agent, at a spot in the city centre coincidentally close to where the assassins left a sealed container of the novichok lying around. Even though the nerve agent was eight times more deadly than Sarin or VX, it did not kill the Skripals because it had been on the doorknob and affected by rain.
Why did they both touch the outside doorknob in exiting and closing the door? Why did the novichok act so very slowly, with evidently no feeling of ill health for at least five hours, and then how did it strike both down absolutely simultaneously, so that neither can call for help, despite their being different sexes, weights, ages, metabolisms and receiving random completely uncontrolled doses. The odds of that happening are virtually nil. And why was the nerve agent ultimately ineffective?
Detective Sergeant Bailey attended the Skripal house and was also poisoned by the doorknob, but more lightly. None of the other police who attended the house were affected.
Why was the Detective Sergeant affected and nobody else who attended the house, or the scene where the Skripals were found? Why was Bailey only lightly affected by this extremely deadly substance, of which a tiny amount can kill?
Four months later, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were rooting about in public parks, possibly looking for cigarette butts, and accidentally came into contact with the sealed container of a novichok. They were poisoned and Dawn Sturgess subsequently died.
If the nerve agent had survived four months because it was in a sealed container, why has this sealed container now mysteriously disappeared again? If Rowley and Sturgess had direct contact straight from the container, why did they not both die quickly? Why had four months searching of Salisbury and a massive police, security service and military operation not found this container, if Rowley and Sturgess could?
I am, with a few simple questions, demolishing what is the most ludicrous conspiracy theory I have ever heard – the Salisbury conspiracy theory being put forward by the British government and its corporate lackies.
My next post will consider some more plausible explanations of this affair.
were they sniffing it? in the belief the perfume bottle contained some sort of high? Maybe it was given to them by a “controller” for services rendered and they were told the perfume bottle was just a convenient cover for the real contents – an illegal high susbstance of some sort?.
Max
Sounds plausible.
my response to max_b on moon of alabama
“max_b… you are going to have to do better then that if you want a gig in sleuthology.. you might get a gig working for the uk gov’t, but not for anyone with any chops in sleuthing.. using lines like “It was never clear to me..”, “It seemed to me..”, “it has seemed to me…” and etc – why not admit you are making a guess and willing to give the uk authorities a full pass on any involvement or concealment in the case, with a D notice to boot? that’s why i mention you could work for the uk gov’t or some such thing..
as for the cartentanil line – it has been discussed here a few times, by me actually, but no one generally takes it up.. the way you spin it, russia and the skripals are guilty… you are going to have to work harder to get a pass on this take here at moa.. thanks for your post – well written and you get top marks for that!”
are you working with max_b too? looks like it..
Errr… no I don’t work for the government? Yes, I posted my theory here, and to Moon of Alababma, and a couple of other sites that seemed to have an active ongoing discussion about the Skripal Affair. I’m not quite sure why you’re asking me to admit again that my theory is a guess, I hoped I had made that perfectly clear throughout the text, even going so far as to state about my narrative “…Who knows if it’s true…” for any reader who still wasn’t quite sure.
Perhaps something hasn’t translated properly with my ideas, I’m definitely not letting the UK government off the hook, I believe they became aware only a matter of hours after the Skripal’s were found that they had a potential spy scandal on their hands that could seriously embarrass the UK government, you know, “ex-Russian Spy was a Drug Dealer supplying lethal illicit narcotics in the UK using his connections in the Baltic States”.
The government saw an opportunity to deflect this problem, transfer the case out of the normal police track, and into a national security track, and reflect it onto the Russian’s, making it their problem. They suggested an attempted assassination on the Skripals by the Russian State, and they have put together some pretty tenuous claims, and a great deal of spin to try and make that stick. I believe the reality is much simpler, that the Skripals are straight forward drug dealers, and that their distributed product has been responsible for deaths due to overdose in the UK, and their own poisoning is both accidental and self-inflicted.
thanks max… then, what does that say of a country – the uk – trying to frame russia? that speaks to a much bigger problem then the skripal affair.. the reality is the uk, even if your theory is correct, it ignores the ugliness of the uk in their behaviour on the international scene… to me – that is a much bigger issue, assuming your theory has some legs..
Frankly James, I don’t think the UK leadership (the establishment) are that good. The IT/Communications revolution, a massive aging population, and dwindling domestic energy resources, are all causing enormous problems. I think the UK is in a hard place at the moment, and the UK doesn’t currently have any leadership which is capable of dealing with these issues, and certainly none that has any practical chance of being elected. That’s mainly due to voter demographics in my view. We’ll probably just plod along, using similar strategies to those that have been used successfully in the past.
thanks max.. that is fair enough… i still see the uk’s actions here as malevolent.. trying to isolate russia is an ongoing project that both usa/uk have been engaged in for some time.. this is just more of the same.. if one doesn’t have proof of russians culpability, then why go public on the world stage accusing russia of a role in the skripal affair? it would be like me accusing you of something that i have no proof of – something i have done – calling you a person working for the uk… neither i or the uk can substantiate any of it and what is worse – it is unfair to the person or country that is being accused as such.. i have no proof, but then neither does the uk – or they are unwilling to provide it.. bottom line – the uks actions are very suspect and i am inclined to see the uk as the guilty party here due the omissions in their official story, more then anything..
I’ve been interested in geopolitical and spy issues since I was a child James. Listening to hourly news bulletins from Russian in English through my brothers SW radio, when he wasn’t around, and comparing it to the British newspapers. Sometimes catching the UK government out. Geopolitics is still a bit of a hobby of mine, hence my posts here.
Over the years I realised the establishment in both states, Russia and the UK, that’s the loose grouping of rich and powerful people in those states, are probably just as bad, (or as good) as each other – at least they are as far as I’m concerned. The same goes for all states. They all do exactly the same stuff to each other, and are little more than rich and powerful people, squabbling to maintain, or acquire more money and power. The relative difference between them, and their citizens are not too different to the medieval serfs, different systems of control, but controlled never-the-less. At the moment, the UK leadership is pretty poor and somewhat ineffective, where as Putin comes across as rather good as leaders go, and fairly effective.
I agree with you that on this specific issue, the UK has been by far the worst party. The problem is that in geopolitics one can’t judge neatly isolated issues, because they can only be understood within in a larger global context. There is a complicated web of interconnecting issues that we don’t see. In the UK, the establishment are feeling a bit threatened, they know that the very tools of control which they have used against other countries in the past, have been turned against them by other states. It’s unpleasant to watch them grasping at any straws they can almost in desperation to shore up their defenses, but reality is that the UK is in a hard place at present, with a somewhat poor leadership, and things are probably going to get worse. With the current government narrowly avoiding collapse from one moment to the next, and a great deal of division between the members of the establishment themselves, as to how to get us out of this mess, but generally unified by a terrified of Corbyn getting into power (presented in the UK media as a communist lover) I think they all agreed that they couldn’t afford an enormous scandal at this time. So it was decided that taking a strongly anti-Russian tack to deal with the Skripal issue, might wound the most birds with one stone.
However, one only needs to look at the terribly shameful British Opium wars with China, to realise that the current Opioid crisis sweeping the world, which has also recently hit the UK, has again reversed a British devised system of control, and the British establishment will be all to acutely aware of the risks. The current Opioid crisis may well be another geopolitical weapon.
max – thanks for your additional comments.. we share an interest in world geopolitics, but i live in canada, as opposed to the uk.. i quite agree with your comment here ” The problem is that in geopolitics one can’t judge neatly isolated issues, because they can only be understood within in a larger global context. There is a complicated web of interconnecting issues that we don’t see.” however, we are drawing different conclusions while both acknowledging this! perhaps my position outside of the uk is a good part of it..
your comment on the china / opium / british history and how it may be coming back to roost is very insightful.. thanks for that.. we can both watch and see how this unfolds.. thanks for sharing your thoughts on this ongoing topic..
I think so…
Here we go,
Maria Butina: Russian Woman Indicted on U.S. Conspiracy Charge
https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/maria-butina/
That of course just happend to occur today…..
After reading the document , this seems like a lot of vague accusations and vague possible activities and links . Yet , they complain about vicious regimes that put people in prison for political motives . Alarming and it’s bound to cause diplomatic crisis .
You’re right , how convenient this happened today . What a coincidence . ..
So, basically she is an intelligent, educated, Russian born, pro gun (which I disagree with) person, who has built links between the Russian right to bear arms group and the US NRA.
From what I have read, if she is guilty then they will have to imprison presidents and ex presidents of the NRA as well.
Welcome to McCarthyism Mk2.
Well.. Got Back from the Festival Very Early Morning Cos I fucked up my Campimg/ sleeping arrangement… It was Great to Meet up with Clark, Nevermind, Squonk.. Craig. It was A HUGE event .. From my sources it was the best so far..
Thank you Sqounk.. That Laptop never left your side..tucked under the arm.. Great to see you Diving in the Techno Music Tent on Saturday Night.
I thought I would miss the Word Cup.. But No..Me Nevermind and Craig Enjoyed a Brilliant game
No one Noticd The wee bit of Rain..
It’s awlays a Joy to see so many infants on shoulders at the End…Never Seen So Many. so Late at night at Doune
There was Great Art Too –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU_f_f_7kV4&t=211s
Sounds great. Glad it went well.
Good to hear, I hope everyone enjoys next years event too. Now if only I could convince Mrs Drunken to come along. I like the idea of a family friendly festival.
Monday night and still no Craig Murray version of what really happened in both cases. Buck up, CM. the troop are waiting innit!
Cheers Brian. Wish you could have sent the rain down here. Over two months now with not a drop. Wilting!
Turtleman – There’s a lot to do clearing up after a festival I should imagine. Craig’s son Jamie is the organiser.
No excuses, eh now. Btw, have you deserted the LBN, you old viper tongue ? 🙂 Never read you there anymore!
Should delivery be proposed for “next week”, it’s an overly optimistic individual who expects it the next Monday!
Yes Turtleman. I tell it like it is.
Some nitwit on there put up a comment using my name. I wasn’t having that. I had some lovely messages asking me not to leave. Had too much to do anyway after everything had piled up at home because of my two or three year gap after cancer treatment. Good health old NHS in spite of the Tory attempt to wreck it. £billions for weapons and defence but a rise in income tax promised now to fund the NHS.
Cheers.
BTW I never engaged in those great long threads on TLN that you and others were on.
@Sharp Ears, you are right, the NHS is something to be treasured. Can you imagine what would happen if Boris Johnson or Rees Mogg was PM?
I shudder at the thought.
Do a rain dance. It worked up this way.
indeed Sharp Ears
My policy is always Ray Mears..
is it thay bad..with water. Down there Jeezo…
@ Sharp Ears July 16, 2018 at 22:05
You should have bribed the Yank pilots of the Chemtrail spray planes!
LOL
O/T
But watching the live circus about the Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Bill in the House of Commons, another episode in the brexshit storm, at Westminster on TV just now.
What a farce! The place is so antiquated and utterly unfit for the purpose and the unionist bias against the SNP contingent is so blatant they should all come home and get Scotland out of this unequal union before it’s too late.
**
Government trying to bring summer recess forward to Thursday.
Sorry Jo 1. I repeated that below. She succeeded.
Britain is indeed a fascist state.
FASCISM my definition – the subjugation of the individual’s will and freedom by an overweening state.
Humanity withers, freedom of speech is stifled and the soul dies. Self preservation becomes a dominant drive.
Dear All,
There seem to be as many holes in the Skripal story as there are in the ‘Russian meddling in US elections allegations’.
The answer is simple – the very same US agencies shouting the loudest with allegations can:-
Go to the existing mutual legal assistance treaty.
Present the evidence with requests for named offenders to be handed over; then
Await the outcome with an honest presentation of a case to be advanced.
It is a load of bullshit to have a legal mechanism and not use same while making all sorts of allegations and dancing around the legal mulberry bush.
P.S. Some people may be stupid – but – we are not all dumb.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fbi-official-overseeing-election-meddling-task-force-leaves-agency-report/ar-AAA9DYt?ocid=spartandhp
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/123676.pdf
PPS – Unless, of course, I am missing something and/or have misread the Treaty?
After the Trump Putin rapprochement, watch how quickly the novichok story fades away
The real collusion is between MI6 and traitors in America who want to return it back to a British Colony.
Foreign policy in constitutionally solely in POTUS’ ambit.
There’s much avoiding of Helsinki in our ‘bought’ media. At least this Grauniad leader recognizes that the Skripal/Dawn/Charlie Myth is a total failure. Well-done matrix of IA, compliments. What next?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-trump-putin-summit-russia-is-the-winner
Could you make this up?
MPs to vote on early summer recess
16 July 2018
Members of Parliament are to vote on whether to start their summer recess this Thursday, instead of next week.
The government has tabled a motion to bring forward the summer break to begin five days earlier than planned. MPs will vote on the motion on Tuesday.
It comes as MPs have been debating changes to the prime minister’s plans for leaving the EU.
Labour’s Angela Rayner called the motion “pathetic” and said the Tories were frightened of their own MPs.
Labour backbencher David Lammy said it was “a government that has run out of ideas “.
Government scrapes through EU customs vote
MP quits as minister over Brexit vote
Some Conservative backbenchers said they would vote against the motion including former ministers Nicholas Soames and Nick Boles.
The Tory chair of the Health Select Committee, Sarah Wollaston, also said she was opposed to an early recess – adding that her committee would be sitting as usual next Tuesday.
MPs will return to the Commons on 4 September.
More on this story
Brexiteers’ Customs Bill amendments accepted by government
16 July 2018
‘Tis true. The troughers are off on Thursday. Hoorah. We’re off to the Caribbean. Get the luggage out.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/business-faq-page/recess-dates/
When asked about the early recess on SKY News this morning, the Tory M.P. Liam Fox said it was because: “there was no business…”
Lol…
There’s a Demo today at the French Embassy, 58 Knightsbridge (nearest tube Knightsbridge)
12:00′
The case is somewhat similar to Julian Assange:
‘PRESS RELEASE INTERNATIONAL DAY OF ACTION AT FRENCH EMBASSIES TO DENOUNCE TARIQ RAMADAN’S UNJUST TREATMENT (July 17, 2018) – An international day of action is being held today at French embassies around the world to express outrage at the French government’s handling of Professor Tariq Ramadan’s case. These actions are organized by the coalition Due Process for Tariq Ramadan…
Free Tariq Ramadan: https://www.change.org/p/lib%C3%A9reztariq-ramadan-free-tariq-ramadan
Here’s more important information about Tariq Ramadan case:
https://www.change.org/p/12726406/u/23017895?
‘…Maryam Ramadan: There is more and more evidence that these women are lying, and journalists (like judges) are not taking into account the many exculpatory elements at all. They put forward a lot of contradictory information—stories that do not make sense. During the procedure, Henda Ayari changed the date and place of the alleged rape. She sent my father over 300 messages after the date in which she claimed she was raped, while at the same time claiming she was too traumatized to communicate with him.
The other complainant, Christelle, confessed to creating fake Facebook accounts in Tariq Ramadan’s name. She also confirmed that the President of the Republic, Nicolas Sarkozy, had promised to pay for the best lawyers in order to file a complaint against Tariq Ramadan. But all this information did not interest journalists nor made them ask questions. It is not normal!
As for the third complaint, on June 5, the judges decided not to indict him for this case, so the rape charges were implausible. In addition, these women have alleged that they do not know each other, but it is now clear that they knew each other since 2009 and that they were linked to public figures hostile to my father, like Caroline Fourest and the paparazzi Jean-Claude Elfassi….’
Thus the similarities to Julian Assange. Tariq has been set up for political reasons, and his health has deteriorated tremendously, and gets worse virtually on a daily basis due to his treatment, or rather lack of it.
“Constructive relationship with Russia…in the long term”
Today’s a good day to start for the gimlet-eyed psychopath. Putin wants to know “where’s the bottle”?
So where’s the effing bottle?
@ quasi_verbatim July 17, 2018 at 08:00
And the (non-existent) evidence? And why are the Skripal’s being held prisoners?
Imagine if the situation was reversed, and Russia refused access to a couple of Brits under similar fake circs.
NW Water (United Utilities) declare a hosepipe ban.
•Watering a garden and/or plants using a hosepipe
•Cleaning a private car, van, motorbike, trailer, caravan or leisure boat using a hosepipe
•Filling or maintaining a domestic swimming pool, paddling pool or ornamental fountain
•Cleaning walls or windows using a hosepipe
•Using a water from a hosepipe for domestic recreational use
•Cleaning paths or patios using a hosepipe
•Cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.
https://www.unitedutilities.com/emergencies/hosepipe-ban-on-the-way2/
Water bosses’ £58m pay over last five years a ‘national scandal …
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/05/water-companies-pay-national-scandal-gmb-union-says
5 Jun 2018 – The GMB union said the chief executives of England’s nine water and sewage companies were “fat cats” earning “staggering sums” from the management of a natural resource.
In that list, the CEO of United Utilities is Steve Mogford.
‘The second-highest paid water company boss, according to GMB’s research, is the United Utilities chief executive Steve Mogford, who collected £2.3m. His pay has increased by 49% since 2013.’
Nice little earners from the privatised water supply system.
PS Mogford used to be a non exec with Carillion – 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mogford
Mogford is no mug.
Thanks be to St Margaret Thatcher of blessed memory they all say.
I found their Board of Directors eventually. Run through their interests.
The chairman, McAdam, for instance – Appointed to the board of ICI plc in 1999 and became chief executive in 2003, a position held until ICI’s takeover by Akzo Nobel. He previously held roles as: senior independent director at J Sainsbury plc; non-executive director of Rolls-Royce Holdings plc until May 2017; and senior independent director at Electra Private Equity PLC until 1 March 2018.
Current directorships/business interests: Chairman of Rentokil Initial plc and was appointed as non-executive and senior independent director of Cobham plc on 1 August 2017. He is also Chairman of United Utilities Water Limited.
Another has BAE in his list and Cobham which was Flight Refuelling and is now tied up to the defence (offence) industries.
A non exec is a Labour peer created by Brown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Carter,_Baron_Carter_of_Barnes He is also the CEO of Informa plc
with a turnover of £1.757m and which is ‘tax resident in Switzerland’. Nice work Carter. Very Socialist of you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informa Lloyds List et al
https://www.unitedutilities.com/corporate/about-us/governance/our-board/ Wheels within wheels. It was ever thus.
and a glowing piece to Mogford in the Lancashire Telegraph. I shouldn’t say but his visage could frighten the kiddies.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/8710643.Chorley_man_is_new_United_Utilities_chief/
Straight from BAE Systems to United Utilities.
Note the profit ratio for the first six months in 2010 when he was taken on –
‘£196million on sales of £748 million for the six months to September 30 2010’ and that was after a 24% drop in profits. It is scandalous. Thames Water is even more of a rip off merchant.
So ….the most wet part of the UK has a hosepipe ban…ye gods we are in trouble.
Since it appears at time of writing, the powers that be are going to with the “perfume bottle” as the novichok source, it fits rather nicely with my theory that the original plan had always been the Skripals were to have been poisoned by something slipped in Yulia’s luggage and the were to travel through Salisbury, dispersing traces of Novichok wherever they went before succumbing in the park.
Whereas in reality they were given a dose of BZ, their blood samples were subsequently spiked and the MI5/MI6 went back along the Skripals’ trail, spraying traces of Novichok for Porton Down to identify before ending up the front door (meanwhile the pets were unceremoniously bundled into the incinerator).
It all came unstuck because Nick “Butterfingers” Bailey was a little too generous with the spray-bottle and ended up getting sick and the deadly door-handle was hastily shoe-horned into the narrative.
That meant there was a spare novichok-perfume bottle that was no longer going to be found in Yulia’ luggage that had to be accounted for eventually.
And now it has;
I bet Nick Bailey is very very unpopular with his colleagues.
so how did Dawn Sturgess come to have the perfume bottle?
British intelligence – or their assets – always had the perfume bottle, it was going to be planted in Yulia’s luggage when entry was gained to the house (and it wasn’t used on a door handle or anywhere else). Because there needed to be an abrupt change of plans they just hung on to. Why they chose Dawn Sturgess to unload it on to, I don’t know. I expect they just saw her as an expendable person who it would be easy to trick. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Charlie has to say. I would say he would be a witness very much under duress.
When we see the bottle will be fascinating too, presumably something Yulia could conceivably have picked up in Moscow. Perhaps this?
https://www.calvertjournal.com/images/uploads/articles/03_17/9828.jpg
Who knows? Perhaps the mysterious fiance, who seems to have disappeared, had been marked down as the person responsible for putting it into her luggage? That would explain the early popularity for inane theories about the Mother-In-Law from hell.
A simpler theory is that Skripal was possibly a drug dealer, cutting heroin and cocaine with carfentanil to supplement his income. He possibly used Yulia, and her brother to bring carfentanil into the UK via his connections in the Baltic states, particularly Estonia. Their poisoning was probably accidental, and self inflicted. This synthetic opioid epidemic that has been sweeping the world, appears to have hit the UK over the last year.
1) Finnish Customs provide a little more information about Carfentanil from an alert they posted online in 2017 regarding its lethal nature. In particular it mentions that as well as being supplied in powder form, Carfentinil is also supplied in liquid form using small 20ml bottles…
https://tulli.fi/en/article/-/asset_publisher/finnish-customs-warns-about-an-extremely-dangerous-medicinal-substance-carfentanil-merely-handling-the-substance-can-lead-to-death
2) The New York Times ran a story in Feb 2018 on the Synthetic Opioid epidemic in Hull, in the North East of England, depressing reading, but good journalism. It mainly discussed the situation regarding the use of drugs laced with Fentanyl, but towards the end of the article it mentioned that there had been some very recent deaths in Hull from drugs laced with Carfentanil…
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/world/europe/uk-fentanyl-opioid-addiction.html
————————-QUOTE————————
Some drug gangs have reportedly started to make fentanyl in home labs to keep up with the demand. Britain accounts for the largest number of fentanyl sales on the limited access darknet in Europe, with 1,000 trades being made in recent months, research by the Oxford Internet institute found.
“There is money to be made. For a very small amount of drug you can get a lot of doses and lots of potential individual sales,” Dr. Bijral said.
An even more lethal opioid known as carfentanil, an elephant tranquilizer 100 times stronger than fentanyl, has been cited in several recent fatal overdoses in Hull. Local people say the police carried out several operations in recent months in an effort to cut off the supply. But a former drug addict who lives in the area says that if people are seeking it, they can still find it.
——————END QUOTE——————-
Way back in March, I was the only person on here (and indeed, anywhere) proposing that the chemical agent which poisoned the Skripols was contained in a perfume bottle.
This forms part of the larger theory I put forward at that time wherein the whole Salisbury event can be understood as a British government sponsored attempt at the assassination of Russian President, Vladimir Putin. The brief visit of Yulia Skripal to Britain in March providing the opportunity to smuggle, in her luggage, a tiny but deadly amount of the chemical agent from Porton Down (its place of manufacture) back to Moscow disguised within a perfectly innocuous-looking perfume bottle. Unfortunately for the Skipols, the bottle became compromised and they fell seriously ill. The government’s extraordinary and incoherent response to this – in the groundless and wild accusations it flung towards Russia – being its only option… given the urgent and panicked need it had to deflect any attention being turned back upon itself and its own incompetence.
So how do the latest developments fit into this theory? Well, if the Skripols had the compromised perfume bottle about them during their visit into Salisbury town centre on the 4th March, it is very likely they were conscious of feeling unwell for some time – and of the experience that their sickness was worsening. At some point, it is almost certain they would have linked their failing health to the contents of the bottle they were safeguarding and felt the urgent need get rid of it if they were to survive. Given the dire state they were approaching, its almost certain they gave little thought to how the ‘perfume’ bottle might be disposed of and just flung it, in desperation, into the undergrowth – where it remained until found by Matthew Rowley many months later and gifted to his girlfriend.
This would explain two otherwise illogical aspects Salisbury affair. The first being the government’s announcement in late March that large areas of the town centre would remain closed for many months whilst being ‘scrubbed’ (having previously advised a worried public mop themselves down with a wet wipe). In fact, the lock-down was ordered in the hope that the missing bottle – and its deadly contents – might be found by government agencies before it was found by a member of the public. The second aspect being the authorities’ apparent foreknowledge of a ‘container’ being responsible in the poisoning of Rowley and Sturgess.
Interesting theory. But this doesn’t explain why they both fell very ill with OP poisoning at the same time.
If both Skripols handled the compromised bottle at the same time – ie, one passing it to the other – then simultaneous skin contamination would have happened. Furthermore, given the well-documented powerful psychotropic effects of novichok-type agents, it’s unlikely either of the Skripols would have any recollection of how or where they disposed of the bottle when they eventually regained consciousness and coherence. This lack of crucial information when they did ‘come to’ may have coincided with – and resulted in – the authorities’ announcement of its extended its presence in the area… it being the only step they were left with to find the missing, lethal bottle.
What bothers me is why have the Skripals been so reticent after the event. With your scenario an obvious thing to do would be to cut the Skripals a deal, “we blame it on Russia and you back us up”. Therefore I assume that whatever this is really about, the Skripals are not happy about it or have no idea themselves. While the British government want to make sure the Skripals don’t say something they shouldn’t which suggest they know at least something. Even if it is only to contradict the official version because they know what didn’t happen.
One wonders if the Skripals are allowed any internet acess at all..if it is restricted…can they read media…or advised not to divert their attention from their own personal experience so some form of legal proceedings that may follow may claim their evidence is untainted……?
The Skripols probably loathe Putin as much as HMG does – so were willing and extremely useful participants in the assassination attempt. Sergei, with the ‘sympathetic’ links he has retained within Russian government circles and Yulia with her rationale for travelling between UK and Moscow without raising suspicion. If either Skripol started talking now, they would place themselves in extreme danger… from both sides.
In The Times today (17th July): “Investigators believe that the March 4 attack on Mr Skripal and his daughter was probably carried out by current or former agents of the Russian military Intelligence service (the GRU) according to The New York Times. Mr Skripal was a member of the GRU before he was caught acting as a double agent for British intelligence.
” The newspaper [NYT] reported that a British official, an American official and a former American official familiar with the inquiry, said investigators believed the GRU probably sent agents to Salisbury to carry out the attack. Mark Galeotti, a Russia expert for the Institute of International Relations said:” At the very least they have grainy photographs from CCTV of the people they assume were involved.”
“The investigation had not ruled out the possibility that another Russian intelligence agency or a privatised spin off, was responsible, the sources said.” [Quote ends]
I wonder what such other Russian intelligence agency or spin off that might be? And do we really believe they would go around throwing away perfume bottles containing a Novichok agent in the bushes in public parks in Salisbury? Might it be that Charlie Rowley does not want to say how he came by it?
The original NYT article is so full of nonsense that it should not be taken seriously. The part that got me the most is the allegations of long-running “assassination programs” in GRU targeting traitors. While it is a well-known fact that Skripal, Gordievsky, Suvorov, and prety much every high-profile Russian or Sovied defector lived openly under their own name. Looks like NYT lost all respect for their audience.
Right, that cub reporter for the NYTimes has had one completely clueless article after another, interviewing newly immigrated taxi drivers for insights into British stoicism and passivity. For me, having followed the incident closely, instances of mediocre journalism make me wonder about the rest of the paper, where I don’t happen to know any background.
Some authentic toxicologists from British universities are finally getting interviewed by other reporters. If you don’t know that small world, whether PD, on campus or gov’t consultants, they are all gossipy chums from way back. (The poorly informed Hamish de BG is not part of this group.)
In private correspondence and now publicly, they are saying the Skripals were of course tested by Salisbury Hospital pre- and post-novichok for the usual street drugs, including fentanyls and heroin but not BZ which is utterly unmotivated here. Those tests were all negative. This rules out a lot of nonsensical theories for the following reasons:
In science, the burden of proof always falls on the proposer; the burden of prove is not on others to disprove it. Richard Feynman put it this way: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads about this, they want the rest of us to drop what we are doing to pursue their pet idea. This is a big time-waster as it is completely futile to convince someone who doesn’t want to be convinced, especially someone making up every-changing rules of evidence but no refutable predictions.
Here, Charlie has told the police the whole story by now about the scent. A lot of it will be verifiable, by cctv or whatever. None of it has been disclosed to the public. So make your specific refutable predictions now, and agree to admit error if they are shown wrong.
Ask yourself, why are so few people from the 14th century quoted today, other than William of Occam? It is because he was on to something: things are almost always just as they appear. And, my prediction, that will prove the case once again here.
Well I have never bought the theories that the Skripals were heroin addicts or dealers. Or that it was a suicide pact. Or vengeful mothers-in-law. But I am also deeply sceptical that whoever poisoned them would go around discarding random perfume bottles containing liquid Novichok agents in the bushes in public parks in Salisbury, to be found by Dawn Sturgess 4 months later and then completely missed by the police searching Charlie’s flat for 9 days. Although this would be the easiest option to stage. What do you think Tom S? Do you believe it was a perfume bottle found in the bushes?
The bottle got to Charlie’s home somehow. I’m sure the police will have questioned everyone who entered that house. They must have their suspect(s).
We had clearer information at the start of this whole affair, the hospital identified Fentanyl, and called out a decontamination unit. The clue is in the “…10,000…” times more potent than Heroin, that’s not Fentanyl, that’s Carfentanil.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180426230528/https://www.clinicalservicesjournal.com/story/25262/response-unit-called-as-salisbury-hospital-declares-major-incident
Then this information was removed from the hospital web site, as a decision was made to handle with the “ex-spy Russian turned drug dealer selling lethal drugs” potential scandal, using a link made by the UK government between the Military Grade Nerve Agent used by Russian Special Forces to end the Moscow Theatre Siege previously identified at Porton Down, and the substance involved in the Salisbury Hospital’s Major Incident.
Once this same chemical turned up with two well known substance abusers, in a small bottle, and one of them has a previous conviction for drug dealing… the media narrative, fueled by the government’s spin just falls apart.
”At the very least they have grainy photographs from CCTV of the people they assume were involved.”
Funny how it is always grainy, poor quality CCTV. While the videos released to the media by private businesses are of much better quality but show nothing untoward.
There is a valid reason for not believing the ‘perfume bottle’ story, which was apparently hinted at by the BBC before it made its way into Charlie Rowley’s and the Met’s thought processes.
The immediate, incredible accusations against Russia, following the Salisbury attack, could not be sustained unless the Amesbury incident were laid at the Kremlin’s door also. For that to be feasible there had to be some demonstrable physical connection between the Skripal poisoning and that of Rowley and Sturgess, a motivational connection involving Russia being unlikely in the extreme. What better vehicle than a perfume bottle therefore, given two of the victims were female.
We know very little as fact in either case (Salisbury or Amesbury). Should the two in reality entail entirely different sources of contamination, then the barely breathing case against Russia could not survive – even on life support.
Oh please, learn to use google search.
Why? If you’ve something to say then say it. I’m not impressed by sarcastic one-liners.
I suppose it could be a more subdued looking bottle used in the fragrance industry, and aromatherapy sector, who commonly use 10ml & 20ml bottles, often with droppers in the lid. Like these…
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amber-Brown-Bottles-Dropper-Pipettes/dp/B00IBXPROC
Rather than the way it’s been reported in the media, (and mocked up viral images of fancy perfume atomizer’s, makes one think of a fancy ladies perfume bottle), and put one off the scent, boom boom (couldn’t resist)
Here’s another report from Finland…
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/lethal_opioid_delivery_seized_by_finnish_customs/9728264
And a typical US prosecution… interesting because it shows that even the dealers don’t know what their selling… he thought it was laced with Fentanyl, but he was wrong, it was laced with Carfentanil.
http://kstp.com/news/charges-burnsville-man-sold-carfentanil-laced-heroin-that-led-to-overdose/4829148/
‘An idiot’s guide to the Skripal affair’:
https://syrianobservatoryforhumanwrongs.wordpress.com/2018/07/09/an-idiots-guide-to-the-skripal-affair/
‘A sad, funny story of Sergei and Yulia –
not ‘funny ha-ha’, but funny peculiar…
One Sunday in March they decided to eat
at a nice little café, then stopped at a seat
where they both felt unwell at the very same minute –
now I think that’s quite a coincidence, ‘innit?
So an ambulance came for the pair, as requested.
But when they were studied, and prodded, and tested,
nefarious substances in them were found –
and not only there, but spread all around
old Salisbury town, up hill and down valley –
(the High Street is now known as ‘Chemical Alley’).
A passing D.S. who just happened to be there,
was poisoned like them when he went off to see where
they lived – or did he succumb at the scene?
(His bosses told two different stories on screen).
And while a good nurse who had tended them well
suffered no side effects, ‘far as I can tell,….’
Best way to treat the government and MSM ‘narrative’!
Thank you. I await verse 2 (the aims of Amesbury) with interest.
Thanks for posting that link, Paul. It is absolutely brilliant! Had me in stitches!! 🙂
Has it actually been confirmed it’s a ‘perfume’ bottle? Apparently the police prevented Charlie’s brother from speaking directly about the case.
If it was a perfume bottle why would the police statement only say it was in a ‘bottle’? wouldn’t it have been easier to say perfume bottle?
The police narrative leads us to believe the bottle was hidden in the house and only found when Charlie woke up as this explains their failure to find it.
Why then would Charlie hide a perfume bottle? And when would he have hidden it? After Dawn was taken ill? Why do that? If this was a ‘military grade’ nerve agent as we are led to believe how come Charlie was fit and clear headed enough to give statements almost straight away when he woke up (as though he just had a long sleep)?
How come it was found on his hands after he had a shower (according to friend Sam) when advice is use baby wipes to remove traces?
Why not tell the services about the bottle when Dawn fell ill? After all if he didn’t know what was in the bottle he should have been more concerned.
If in a perfume bottle how did the ‘gel’ (as used on the door knob) get in there? Is a perfume bottle really the best place to store gel?
The officials hint that Charlie may have found the bottle back in March but that stretches credibility to expect poor and drug dependent people not to open/use it straight away.
Why have statements been circulated from ‘officials’ who say the bottle will contain vital evidence such as DNA, fibers, dust etc that could be traced to origin when (if it contained a military grade nerve agent) extreme care and cleanliness would have to have been taken in preparing the bottle and contents. The interior would have to be sterilized to remove impurities that might damage the agent. The outside would have to be handled with the utmost care (possibly always with protective gloves) to prevent contamination. But I suppose we already admit the would be assassins were sloppy – and that will be the officials excuse!
Finally on the bottle. A BOTTLE! Presumably a bottle made of GLASS. Glass breaks. Glass breaks easily. Could you think of a better container to carry one of the most dangerous military grade nerve agents around?
Why has MSM been silent about following up the couple in the grainy CCTV seen in the alley before the Skirpal’s? Surely this is one of the most important aspects of the case. If the couple were Dawn and Charlie that throws up loads of questions. MSM should be banging on about this.
Why has little been said about the red bag found at the scene (and seen in the CCTV)? This is also one of the most important parts. Was the bag checked for evidence or the owner? I have found nothing from the officials on this. In fact it is very suspicious that the MSM has not followed up or tried to speak to any witnesses. I can only think they have been told not to (it’s an ongoing investigation – but it is in the public interest as the longer this goes on the more people may been affected). They only parrot the same official narrative no matter how bizarre it sounds. I was wondering if the MSM read these posts and bet they do to pick up an any angles they can use somehow.
Questions still surround the actions of DS Nick Bailey that night. Previous comments suggest he was somehow involved (with no evidence) that he was surveilling the Skirpal’s or had some part in a supposed drug deal gone bad (maybe it was him who dumped the bottle in the park in panic after he picked it up before he went to the hospital – one theory). That his actions are unclear and the fact he has gone to ground in one of the biggest new stories of the year and the government is to buy his home (for ‘security’ reasons) all lead to suspicions that could be cleared up (MSM?). I have yet to see a comprehensive account of Mr Bailey that day (or have missed it)
I think we all agree it wasn’t a nerve agent and hope someone does a montage of all the service people walking around or guarding highly contaminated sites without protection and posts that.
As I mentioned about the perfume bottle on here back in March – it was almost certainly made of quartz. Novichok-type substances can only be kept and transported safely in either quartz or certain metal containers. British intelligence will have had this container specially manufactured so that its size and shape closely mimicked that of an established and recognisable brand (eg, Chanel No5). This would have removed any suspicion from Heathrow airport security staff and customs when Yulia Skripol carried the ‘perfume’ in her personal luggage (as do many thousands of women each day), onto her flight back to Moscow. Of course, this plan was forced to be aborted when the Skripols became ill from exposure to the bottle’s contents (as I outline a couple of posts up).
Although the fake perfume bottle may have been seen as an ideal way to smuggle the chemical agent into Russia, it also presented the UK authorities with a huge problem once it became lost to their control. Unlike other types of container, it was almost a certainty that a member of the public – upon finding an expensive bottle of ‘perfume’ – would open and attempt to use its contents… as in fact eventually happened.
All good questions… I wonder if the anti-terrorist police have been trying to get back as quietly as they could, all the illicit Carfentanil or Carfentanil laced drugs Skripal may have sold that day, before succumbing to contamination, but perhaps a few bottles have slipped through the net.
Have you got a source for the government buying his home… that’s pretty wild!
Replying here to earlier Tom Smyth comment (due to exceeded reply quota)
Main interesting things from the OPCW executive summary:
– received medical information on Skripals and Bailey including prior AChE status and treatment details
– collected blood samples from all three under full chain-of-custody
– collected multiple environmental samples
– received ‘splits’ of samples collected earlier by the UK
– biomedical samples from all three individuals ‘demonstrate exposure to this toxic chemical’
– environmental samples demonstrate presence of toxic chemical
[‘demonstrate exposure’ seems carefully worded to not commit to any specific interpretation]
I mined the member state comments from the collection below and found a few additional minor leaks from the classified report.
https://www.opcw.org/special-sections/salisbury-incident/related-official-documents/
United Kingdom
– “the report sets out, in detail, the full forensic chain of custody over the collection, handling and transportation of the samples that OPCW staff maintained throughout”
– “the OPCW used only their own equipment, so there could be no concern about contamination – accidental or deliberate.”
[If you think you know how we did it, guess again]
– “the environmental samples were analyzed by two laboratories, and the biomedical samples by two separate laboratories. All four laboratories detected the presence of the nerve agent”
– “the findings show the stability of the toxic chemical, as the Technical Secretariat have just explained”
– “the Russian Federation has suggested, erroneously, that the nerve agent identified was unstable and would quickly decompose, contrary to OPCW’s finding and as you have all just heard”
[all confirmed by the scientific gold standard ‘doorknob test’ for molecular stability and some textbook circular reasoning]
– very much boring rambling on topics such as the historical misfortunes of Putin’s critics
Bulgaria
– “OPCW notes that the chemical was of high purity, indicating that the chemical is not volatile and degrades slowly”
[Clearly proves Russia is lying that it is impossible to find only high purity novichoks two weeks later on a doorknob. That’s exactly what OPCW found!]
Canada
– “The laboratories also remarked on the purity of the environmental samples. Such purity suggests that this toxic chemical was produced in a sophisticated state-operated facility under highly controlled conditions.”
Switzerland
– Lavrov is kind of a dick. Also we don’t think his source leaked him a full copy of our report.
Russia
Made no comments specifically about the content of the report, but their two statements are still quite interesting and I recommend reading them entirely.
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-59/en/ecm59nat03_e_.pdf
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-59/en/ecm59nat04_e_.pdf
In the Daily Mail Charlie’s brother says it could have been an aftershave bottle – “Mr Rowley, 47, said yesterday: ‘All I know, all Charles has said so far, is that it was a perfume bottle or an aftershave bottle, and they picked it up in a park, and they sprayed themselves with it.
I’m going to talk to Charles later, and I’m trying my best to get the truth out of him about where he got it from, where it came from, what make it was…It was nine days before they got ill that they picked it up. He’s not very healthy. It’s still 50/50, and his mental health has gone down as well.’ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5961781/Female-assassin-carried-perfume-bottle-containing-Novichok.html
Which now begs the question perfume or aftershave – and a statement, if true, given by a man recovering from a nerve agent attack that could affect brain functions such as recall and with deteriorating mental health.
A few papers are quoting anonymous ‘officials’ saying the perfume bottle makes sense and a female spy may have been involved but I have seen no official confirmation. Again the first statement it was a bottle and I find it hard to see why they said that if was a perfume or aftershave bottle. If there is more out there (killers may have had several bottles) surely an alert to public would be don’t pick up perfume or aftershave bottles?
The quartz or metal container makes sense (a glass bottle is just ridiculous) but again would this be described as a bottle? I also have issues with the ‘cap’ on the bottle. One for the scientists, but for something so dangerous as a nerve agent you surely wouldn’t have a standard pop off or screw cap. Surely it must be safer than that to prevent accidental spillage? And again some people assume it was sprayed on but do gels spray (obvious it wasn’t sprayed as they would both be dead within minutes if breathed in as a vapor).
I also repeat my previous comment on the officials who state the container would be gold mine of evidence. Really? I mentioned that we are dealing with highly sensitive and dangerous materials here. A report from the BBC stated the OPCW found the agent used to poison the Skirpal’s had a ‘high purity’. Therefore one would assume there would be no impurities (or evidence) inside the container itself. The outside of the container has been subject to the weather for 4 months and handling by god knows how many people. The people who would have handled it with respect would be the assassins as they knew what was inside. It would have been handled with up most care and security. To argue otherwise would be nonsense. The manufacture of the bottle I’d assume to be bespoke and when you are making such things for murders you wouldn’t make it easily traceable (unless you wanted it to be traced). All this is common sense – but the public only read the big headline.
Interestingly the BBC article also states the Skirpal’s had been monitored by the Russians. No surprise I would have thought for an ex-spy involved with ‘that’ dossier and Pablo Miller. I would have been shocked if they weren’t, but that’s no reason to blame the attack on Russia. I highly suspect both the UK and CIA would have been watching them closely as well. That the Skirpal’s turned off their phone a few hours before the attack probably means they knew as well. I don’t know why the MSM mention that – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44717835
”
The perfume bottle lead supports the theory that a woman was involved in the initial hit by up to six people against Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on March 4.
An intelligence source told the Daily Mirror: ‘It makes sense that a female officer may have been part of the team, playing a key role.’
”
“makes sense”
lmao
[billy walks out in the middle of the second act and demands his money back at the ticket desk]
I wouldn’t make too much of their phones being turned off. If you want to hide, it makes more sense to just leave the phone on at home. They could just have gone to cinema or something like that.
Were there any good movies playing at the cemetery at 9:15 Sunday morning? Wait sorry, that’s a dumb question, they don’t show any movies at the cemetery. So maybe what happened is they turned off their phones near the cemetery knowing they wanted to go see a movie (or two) and kept driving north-east for a few miles looking for a theater that was open early enough.
Or perhaps they parked at the cemetery, ran into some friends while dropping off flowers, the friends reminded them they should turn their phones off, and then they all carpooled north to the movies together in another vehicle.
The information about the phones is slightly dubious but seems to come from an internal source at the mobile provider who was assisting the police with the investigation. I don’t think it should be automatically dismissed merely because it cannot be explained convincingly without going to some absolutely wild places in the realm of possibilities. Where’s the fun in that?
Come to think of it, they could suddenly become worried of being tracked and turn their phones off. Leaving phones at home is less suspicious, but the secret trip has to be planned.
That linked edition of the Daily Fail carries more than one ‘story’ on the subject. Drawing upon both, my previous comment (up-thread) assumes greater significance, despite the sarcastic response from our visiting Professor of Chemistry.
According to the DM Dawn Sturgess sprayed herself with ‘nerve gas’ (the glass bottle being visibly devoid of any liquid?), Charlie can remember finding the bottle nine days before falling ill, but not where (perfect recall of time – no recollection of place?), the substance was masquerading as perfume or aftershave, and both Charlie and Dawn sprayed themselves with it (except men’s aftershave is usually applied in droplets via the palm of one’s hand, not sprayed) and the bottle smelled of ammonia (which is obviously why anyone would wish to douse themselves with it after nine days). Dawn sprayed both her wrists nevertheless (we have yet to be told exactly what Charlie did).
Never mind ammonia, I smell bullshit.
My suspicions coupla days ago…perfume for men…Dawn just being daring to trying anything…hence the bottle was at Charlies house she did not take it home where it would join her other collectibles one can presume that is where she kept them…did she ever sell or swap those kind of things one wonders…..note the timing of the showers that they took too in conjunction with applying the perfume?
Skirpal’s discovered unconscious on a bench in Salisbury on 4 March. 5 March, Neil Basu appointed as the new Assistant Commissioner responsible for leading counter terrorism policing nationally. Coincidence? The outgoing AC was Mark Rowley and I really hope he is not a relation of Charlie Rowley.
I read that Dawn Sturgess’ Mother and ex-husband both had security clearance at nearby MoD Boscombe Down. If this is true, then surely this must be an important angle for the investigation?
Why would Charlie say ‘they killed my girlfriend’ when he woke up? Who are they? Sounds like he knew something. Can’t put this down to delusion as they seemed to accept when he told them where the bottle was hidden!
Why are all the reports that Dawn died due to Novichok, repeated by the docile MSM, when the post mortem has yet to be performed?
There has been huge public theater from the officials as they close down buildings, very visibly wrap up vehicles, put up tents put bits of tape here and there all to heighten the fear. While people like Dr Jenny Harries, joint director of Public Health England (PHE),say “This is about a very, very small risk of repetitive contact with traces of contamination that people may have taken out.”
The article in the Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5508633/Police-fear-131-people-came-contact-Salisbury-nerve-agent.html of 16 March is very interesting as it echos the ‘perfume’ theory, that the poison could have been in Yulia’s suitcase, so it goes full circle. The article goes on to say 131 people were infected so that’s 131 witnesses who may have information (MSM where are you?). The affected were ‘monitored via daily phone calls’ (?). And “The nerve agent alert has also spread to Larkhill military base behind Stonehenge where experts in chemical protection suits towed away a car from outside houses belonging to Army officers.” What became of that bit of news. It doesn’t tie up anywhere else.
Most interestingly of all is says “The armed forces and emergency services swooped on the Dorset village of Alderholt this morning – closing off a road where Wiltshire Police Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, who was taken to hospital following the nerve agent attack, lives.
One police source told MailOnline: ‘I understand the investigation is concerned about cross contamination at DS Bailey’s address, which suggests he’d gone home.’ Two large Army low loaders and a crane escorted by police arrived in the village yesterday, and were believed to have taken DS Bailey’s vehicle away.” DS Bailey is a big part of this investigation. This suggests after he met the ill Skirpal’s he went home for some reason. Could he tell us why?
These “131 affected” are apparently the people who visited the same public places as Skripals near the time of the incident. I doubt they have much to tell.
There is talk of his house being knocked down. Maybe he half-inched a Chanel purse spray while looking around Skripals gaff.
Just happened to come across the following article in the Daily Mail dated April 17th and with the headline:
Novichok nerve agent used to poison former Russian spy and his daughter was ‘in a liquid form’, officials reveal as they say NINE sites around Salisbury could still be contaminated
And the article starts as follows:
The nerve agent used to poison a former Russian spy and his daughter was delivered ‘in a liquid form’, it was revealed today.
Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were both poisoned in Salisbury and were left in a critical condition in hospital.
They had been attacked with Novichok on March 4 and traces were found on the former double agent’s front door.
The Department for Environment today confirmed the nerve agent was a liquid and added that nine sites in the area are still potentially contaminated.
(Ends)
And I have no doubt that it wasn’t only the Mail that covered it and, as such, it was widely reported in the MSM.
So THAT was the line being disseminated then – ie the novichok was in liquid form – but when people all over the internet started pointing out the absurdity of an assassination attempt being planned, and then executed, in such a hit and miss and haphazard way, whose success or failure was dependent on whether it rained or not prior to the Skripals going out, the story then started changing to the novichok being coated on the door handle as a gel.
As each gaping wide hole in their script is exposed for the nonsense that it is, so they then ‘introduce’ a new line so as to try and plug that particular hole up.
PS And can anyone tell me when the ‘red bag’ that some posters have been referring to entered into the equation, because I haven’t been able to find a single (news) article that mentions a red bag being found by the bench the Skripals were sitting on when they (supposedly) became incapacitated at exactly the same moment. And never having heard/read THAT before, I didn’t think I WOULD, but I did a web search anyway.
Photo of redish bag being put in evidence bag
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/russian-spy-nerve-agent-plot-new-image-shows-police-at-scene-unprotected-against-deadly-toxin-a3784986.html
CCTV of the Skripals and a women with dog. Yulia is apparently the one in front with a white jacket and pinkish bag,
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5767001/cctv-video-ex-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-daughter-yulia-walking-mystery-woman-before-poisoned/
CCTV of not the Skripals, has a blonde women carrying a bright red bag,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/mar/06/russian-spy-mystery-cctv-emerges-of-two-people-police-are-looking-for-video
A blog with a theory about the Skripal incident, bag is the star
http://www.theblogmire.com/joining-some-dots-on-the-skripal-case-part-5-an-educated-guess/
Whoever devised and constructed the ‘Salisbury Poisoning’ story obviously considered first one scenario, and then another, and so on, but they knew to begin with of course that the means by which the ‘assassination’ was done would be one that they could (miraculously) recover from. And they also knew that if it had just been Mr Scripal who was poisoned, the story wouldn’t have been anywhere near as emotive (in the general public) as having his daughter poisoned as well, AND a brave, courageous policeman who selflessly came to their aid (who in real life of course wouldn’t have had a clue WHAT was wrong with them), who would then be contaminated and poisoned himself and, as such, be heralded as a hero, and ALSO make a miraculous recovery.
If the ‘scriptwriters’ had had the Scripals fall ill at Mr Scripal’s home, then of course they COULDN’T have had the two of them become incapacitated at exactly the same moment, and the story would have been that when one of them became ill, the other one phoned for an ambulance and then, at some point, became ill themselves, and then there wouldn’t and couldn’t have been the whole ‘courageous cop’ bit of the story. So it HAD to be in a public place, and they HAD to become incapacitated simultaneously. And THAT was their first big mistake!
In actual fact of course their SECOND big mistake, the first being the decision to have the assassins put the novichok on the outside, where it was – in the real world – dependent for it’s success on the weather.
And their THIRD big mistake was to have the chemical weapons experts et al only think to check the front door handle some three weeks into the story, which is inconceivable of course, as in the real world THAT would have been the FIRST thing they checked once it had been established that all three of them had been poisoned with a nerve agent, before entering the house itself to check it over.
And a relatively minor point that only just occured to me several hours ago, but did we ever learn WHO was with DS Nick Bailey when HE became incapacitated (or where he was when he DID etc)? I’ve never heard or read anything in that regard, but whoever it was – or THEY were – they too are heroes in my book!
From Chapter 3: Toxins in Little Bottles Excerpt “Goosen testified that he, Basson and Immelmen talked about developing covert chemical and biological weapons such as a substance that could be smeared on a car door handle, which would cause whoever opened the door to be poisoned. They came to the conclusion that the ideal poison for such an application would be an organophosphate, which research had shown was most effectively absorbed through the skin. It was with this kind of application in mind, said Goosen, that paraoxon became the most researched organophosphate at RLL. Paraoxon attacks the involuntary muscle functions, paralysing vital organs and resulting in suffocation within minutes of ingestion. In time, most — perhaps all —of the senior scientists at RLL came to suspect that the substances they were doing research on would be used to eliminate or harm enemies of the state. Goosen said that during one of the informal discussions about how organophosphates could be used, ANC leaders and communists were mentioned as suitable targets for elimination. There was talk, for example, about how hard it would be to murder former South African Communist Party leader Joe Slovo, and what could be used if an assassin had only one minute to strike. Nelson Mandela, too, was discussed, and the view was expressed that if he could somehow get cancer while in prison, his release would present no real problem….”
And it DOES seem oh-so very convenient that NOW, precisely BECAUSE of the latest episode, there are people all over the internet revising how the Skripals came to become incapacitated in exactly the same moment, including in the comments section on here. And I have no doubt that the vast majority of them are paid shills. That said, I’ve only read a couple of pages or so of the comments listed here, but ONE that I DID read had just about the WHOLE of the ‘Salisbury Poisoning’ story revised. I’ll have a look through again at some point and find it, and leave the time and date it was posted, but here’s another one that I came across a couple of days ago on another website/blog, which may or may not be a shill at work, but I think it probably IS:
I have never understood how the Skrypals both succumbed at one and the same time in spite of being so different in age, gender and weight. It just seems much more likely that they were exposed on the park bench and not 5 hours earlier, before they had had lunch at Zizzi’s and gone to the pub. I have no inside knowledge but the story, as presented by the press, does not hang together and seems to ignore the obvious explanation (even if that is a wrong one).
(Ends)
I of course asked them how they explain away the novichok on the door handle, and the novichok traces found at Zizzi’s, but got no response.
You are ignoring the Public Health England advice issued last week that said the delay to the onset of symptoms after exposure is a MINIMUM of 3 hours.
They left their house at 1p.m. collapsed at 4 p.m.
So they were exposed on leaving the house or PHE are lying.
I am definitely not a shill. Just interested member of public with zero connection to the authorities not officially, not unofficially and zero connections of any sort, direct or indirect, with ANY of the people involved. (Nor am I a Russian Troll!…….)
One explanation is that these traces (if they existed really and not just “reportedly” as media usually states) were left by someone other than Skripals. There was plenty of time to do it, as well as there were motives.
For some odd reason, when I click on ‘Reply’ nothing is happening. Anyway, I was looking through the comments to try and find the one I mentioned above and, as such, came across this one posted by john_a
on July 13, 2018 at 11:14 (so I’ve copied and pasted it so that I can respond to it):
Regarding the doorknob, what I’ve always wondered is, if the highest concentration of Novichok was on the doorknob, why did nobody go inside the house to inspect it for traces of Novichok there? Theoretically one might consider the possibility of finding even higher concentrations inside the house, or at least want to rule out that possibility. But evidently the house was sealed and not entered for four weeks, i.e. long enough for the Skripals’ pets to have died or nearly died from dehydration. I may have missed it but I haven’t seen this question raised anywhere. Does anyone have any knowledge or theories about why the inside of the house wasn’t inspected?
(Ends)
I don’t know where john got the specific information he mentions from, but what I DO know is that it wasn’t until March 28th that we are being told about the novichok being on the outside handle of the front door (and that THAT is how all three of them were contaminated) – ie more than three weeks AFTER the alledged poisoning took place. And as I said in another post, it is totally inconceivable that the forensic and the chemical weapons experts WOULDN’T have gone straight to the house to start checking the place over – starting with the door handle for obvious reasons – once it was established that all three had been poisoned by a nerve agent. In the real world, *THAT* is what would have happened, and there is no way on this Earth that they would have just sealed the house up for weeks and not examined the place AND checked to see if there were any pets inside.
But then we’re NOT dealing with the real world, but a contrived and faked and staged piece of theatre. And you can be sure that no pets came to any harm, and THAT was just part of the deception.
PS We know of course that neighbours were repeatedly questioned, and it is highly unlikely that they wouldn’t have known that Sergei Skripal had pets and, as such, mention the fact to the police. And then there was his very good buddy, who would undoubtedly have known that he had pets.
I can remember reading that it was the vet who notified the Police about the pets.
The whole story is linked to trump via the dossier by Christopher Steele and the involvement of MI6. Skripal wrote the dossier, he was a British spy/asset who was on the take for money all the time. Everything is theatre for the British public. I notice the chief cons table is no longer using temporary before his title. Steele’s co director and shareholder of Obis is very quiet. He is located in Winchester. I am surprised MSM have not knocked on his front door and asked the questions.
Our Prime Minister was responsible for MI5 when she was Home Secretary, she knows how they operate. Same with Bo Jo and MI6
You will have the cabinet office joint intelligence committee running this show and their analysts writing/changing the script, and they have been lucky they have not created bigger problems.
There are in fact several reasons why the ‘scriptwriters’ decided on a nerve agent as the means of assassination, apart from the the fact that it had to be a method whereby all three of them ended up ‘miraculously’ surviving. By having them poisoned by a nerve agent they could have them at deaths door for weeks on end etc and, as such, draw the whole thing out AND keep the story in the public’s mind, and of course they could also then draw on the similarities with the Litvinenko case so as to give weight to their certainty that ‘Russia’ and Putin were responsible. And with a nerve agent it would of course be possible to potentially contaminate and poison other people, which they DID with Nick Bailey, and of course using a chemical weapon for an assassination was unprecedented in peacetime Europe, and the political elite and their propaganda machine the MSM could really go to town on THAT in terms of outrage and condemnation etc. And of course it would be a nerve agent that led straight back to Russia, and Vladimir Putin.
Trump announced intentions to leave Syria, panic sets in and deep state attempts to stop it with staged ‘chemical attacks’ in Salisbury and Syria, and now ‘collusion’ arrests before Helsinki. But Trump knows the score and has counter-plans in place before he announces he wants to leave Syria. Hence the panic attacks are easily debunked and he announces by implication the UK has foreknowledge and turns the tables on the deep state (with counter-agents involved to spike their plots) who are incredulous at their failure leading to insane fury at him promoting peace rather than war at Helsinki!