The Holes in the Official Skripal Story 1404

 in Uncategorized by

In my last post I set out the official Government account of the events in the Skripal Case. Here I examine the credibility of this story. Next week I shall look at alternative explanations.

Russia has a decade long secret programme of producing and stockpiling novichok nerve agents. It also has been training agents in secret assassination techniques, and British intelligence has a copy of the Russian training manual, which includes instruction on painting nerve agent on doorknobs.

The only backing for this statement by Boris Johnson is alleged “intelligence”, and unfortunately the “intelligence” about Russia’s secret novichok programme comes from exactly the same people who brought you the intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s WMD programme, proven liars. Furthermore, the question arises why Britain has been sitting on this intelligence for a decade and doing nothing about it, including not telling the OPCW inspectors who certified Russia’s chemical weapons stocks as dismantled.

If Russia really has a professional novichok assassin training programme, why was the assassination so badly botched? Surely in a decade of development they would have discovered that the alleged method of gel on doorknob did not work? And where is the training manual which Boris Johnson claimed to possess? Having told the world – including Russia -the UK has it, what is stopping the UK from producing it, with marks that could identify the specific copy erased?

The Russians chose to use this assassination programme to target Sergei Skripal, a double agent who had been released from jail in Russia some eight years previously.

It seems remarkable that the chosen target of an attempt that would blow the existence of a secret weapon and end the cover of a decade long programme, should be nobody more prominent than a middle ranking double agent who the Russians let out of jail years ago. If they wanted him dead they could have killed him then. Furthermore the attack on him would undermine all future possible spy swaps. Putin therefore, on this reading, was willing to sacrifice both the secrecy of the novichok programme and the spy swap card just to attack Sergei Skripal. That seems highly improbable.

Only the Russians can make novichok and only the Russians had a motive to attack the Skripals.

The nub of the British government’s approach has been the shocking willingness of the corporate and state media to parrot repeatedly the lie that the nerve agent was Russian made, even after Porton Down said they could not tell where it was made and the OPCW confirmed that finding. In fact, while the Soviet Union did develop the “novichok” class of nerve agents, the programme involved scientists from all over the Soviet Union, especially Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia, as I myself learnt when I visited the newly decommissioned Nukus testing facility in Uzbekistan in 2002.

Furthermore, it was the USA who decommissioned the facility and removed equipment back to the United States. At least two key scientists from the programme moved to the United States. Formulae for several novichok have been published for over a decade. The USA, UK and Iran have definitely synthesised a number of novichok formulae and almost certainly others have done so too. Dozens of states have the ability to produce novichok, as do many sophisticated non-state actors.

As for motive, the Russian motive might be revenge, but whether that really outweighs the international opprobrium incurred just ahead of the World Cup, in which so much prestige has been invested, is unclear.

What is certainly untrue is that only Russia has a motive. The obvious motive is to attempt to blame and discredit Russia. Those who might wish to do this include Ukraine and Georgia, with both of which Russia is in territorial dispute, and those states and jihadist groups with which Russia is in conflict in Syria. The NATO military industrial complex also obviously has a plain motive for fueling tension with Russia.

There is of course the possibility that Skripal was attacked by a private gangster interest with which he was in conflict, or that the attack was linked to Skripal’s MI6 handler Pablo Miller’s work on the Orbis/Steele Russiagate dossier on Donald Trump.

Plainly, the British governments statements that only Russia had the means and only Russia had the motive, are massive lies on both counts.

The Russians had been tapping the phone of Yulia Skripal. They decided to attack Sergei Skripal while his daughter was visiting from Moscow.

In an effort to shore up the government narrative, at the time of the Amesbury attack the security services put out through Pablo Miller’s long term friend, the BBC’s Mark Urban, that the Russians “may have been” tapping Yulia Skripal’s phone, and the claim that this was strong evidence that the Russians had indeed been behind the attack.

But think this through. If that were true, then the Russians deliberately attacked at a time when Yulia was in the UK rather than when Sergei was alone. Yet no motive has been adduced for an attack on Yulia or why they would attack while Yulia was visiting – they could have painted his doorknob with less fear of discovery anytime he was alone. Furthermore, it is pretty natural that Russian intelligence would tap the phone of Yulia, and of Sergei if they could. The family of double agents are normal targets. I have no doubt in the least, from decades of experience as a British diplomat, that GCHQ have been tapping Yulia’s phone. Indeed, if tapping of phones is seriously put forward as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.

Their trained assassin(s) painted a novichok on the doorknob of the Skripal house in the suburbs of Salisbury. Either before or after the attack, they entered a public place in the centre of Salisbury and left a sealed container of the novichok there.

The incompetence of the assassination beggars belief when compared to British claims of a long term production and training programme. The Russians built the heart of the International Space Station. They can kill an old bloke in Salisbury. Why did the Russians not know that the dose from the door handle was not fatal? Why would trained assassins leave crucial evidence lying around in a public place in Salisbury? Why would they be conducting any part of the operation with the novichok in a public area in central Salisbury?

Why did nobody see them painting the doorknob? This must have involved wearing protective gear, which would look out of place in a Salisbury suburb. With Skripal being resettled by MI6, and a former intelligence officer himself, it beggars belief that MI6 did not fit, as standard, some basic security including a security camera on his house.

The Skripals both touched the doorknob and both functioned perfectly normally for at least five hours, even able to eat and drink heartily. Then they were simultaneously and instantaneously struck down by the nerve agent, at a spot in the city centre coincidentally close to where the assassins left a sealed container of the novichok lying around. Even though the nerve agent was eight times more deadly than Sarin or VX, it did not kill the Skripals because it had been on the doorknob and affected by rain.

Why did they both touch the outside doorknob in exiting and closing the door? Why did the novichok act so very slowly, with evidently no feeling of ill health for at least five hours, and then how did it strike both down absolutely simultaneously, so that neither can call for help, despite their being different sexes, weights, ages, metabolisms and receiving random completely uncontrolled doses. The odds of that happening are virtually nil. And why was the nerve agent ultimately ineffective?

Detective Sergeant Bailey attended the Skripal house and was also poisoned by the doorknob, but more lightly. None of the other police who attended the house were affected.

Why was the Detective Sergeant affected and nobody else who attended the house, or the scene where the Skripals were found? Why was Bailey only lightly affected by this extremely deadly substance, of which a tiny amount can kill?

Four months later, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were rooting about in public parks, possibly looking for cigarette butts, and accidentally came into contact with the sealed container of a novichok. They were poisoned and Dawn Sturgess subsequently died.

If the nerve agent had survived four months because it was in a sealed container, why has this sealed container now mysteriously disappeared again? If Rowley and Sturgess had direct contact straight from the container, why did they not both die quickly? Why had four months searching of Salisbury and a massive police, security service and military operation not found this container, if Rowley and Sturgess could?

I am, with a few simple questions, demolishing what is the most ludicrous conspiracy theory I have ever heard – the Salisbury conspiracy theory being put forward by the British government and its corporate lackies.

My next post will consider some more plausible explanations of this affair.

Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

1,404 thoughts on “The Holes in the Official Skripal Story”

1 2 3 4 5 6 … 13
    • Sharp Ears

      You Scots have the pleasure of his company soon. He has just left Windsor for Stansted and will arrive at Turnberry at 8.30pm

      Fluffy Mundell will greet him at the airport.

      Oh dear. Built by Lego. http://www.trumpturnberry.com/
      When you try to book, Starwood Hotels comes up. Another one of his companies?

      A large protest in Edinburgh is planned tomorrow.

      • Vivian O'Blivion

        Heard from a reliable source that the Sales Rep for the company that supplies fire extinguishers to Turnberry resort was told to provide gold painted fire extinguishers. Took him an inordinate length of time to explain that fire extinguishers had to be red, no exceptions.

  • Blue Nun

    Its highly likely that this bottle had a label on it. Could well have been saying an opiate if the would assassin was also carrying syringes like I wrote about days ago. Maybe it was found empty and Dawn and Charlie couldn’t resist doing a cheeky wee wash and jag.

    • Stephen

      A bottle of this stuff (no matter how small) would take out a the whole town. No way it has been in the wild for 4 months. I wouldn’t be surprised if they say it was found in the house and they say the assassins used the house before it was occupied. This is all too fishy for it not to have been scripted.

      • Kempe

        Well for that to have happened for a start off it would’ve needed to be left open.

      • Jo

        If a clear glass bottle outside for 4 months would that mean sunshine has degraded the N ….or a dark glass medicine type bottle preserve contents…..plastic or glass……etc

    • bj

      Soon the OPCW will take possession of said bottle, determine its contents to be novichock, and lay blame.

      Case closed.

      • Thorvid Asgard

        Indeed, how convenient the UK, ‘secured’ a rule change a couple of weeks ago ?

    • Thorvid Asgard

      More BS from the UK authorities, some questions it raises:

      1. If this is the source, and it was sealed, it should be full strength military grade. Therefore it should have killed the in 2 – 5 minutes. Why didn’t it? No dilution by rain on door knobs, this time.
      2. If they say they got poisoned by the outside of the bottle, how come the outside dose survived for 4 months in the weather, something the government cleanup people have said was highly unlikely.
      3. Why did the highly trained assassin(s) leave primary evidence laying about, where it could be found.
      4. Where was it found, in a new location? If so why would the assassin(s) take a round about route to dispose of incriminating evidence so clumsily, and not GTFO?
      If known location? How come the clean up was boched, and what other sites are still contaminated? Was your clean up process vigorous enough? Does the wash clothes and baby wipes advice to the general public still stand?

      Seems to me they really are desperate to counter:

      1. all the great press and praze the officials of both FIFA, UAFA and fans of all nation’s at the World Cup gave been giving Russia.
      “These couple of years I said that the 2018 World Cup will be the best for all time. Now I can say it again, being convinced that this is the best world championship in history” – FIFA President Gianni Infantino.
      2. The butt ache that NATO has right now for having to commit to oh paying up to the obligation they signed up for when joning. A lot faster, possibly at the threat of a full US withdrawl. Which is presumably still on the table IF they don’t pay up fast enough in President Trump’s eyes.
      3. The Russian/US summit in Helsinki. Whey all the MSM shrills of the neocons are beside themselves at what the two Presidents may agree on, and that they may actually (God forbid), set a path to a safer more understanding and cooperative World less inclined to confict and total destruction.

  • Jack

    Howw fittingly that they found the container days before Putin/Trump meeting, did it say Vladimir Putin on it?

    • Goose

      Have you noticed how all the main online media outlets are terrified of opening up comments on these developing stories? Whether right : Telegraph or more left: guardian , independent. How is that a healthy media environment , who or what are they terrified of?

  • Patrick Mahony

    It’s odd that the bottle was found but a police car and air ambulance vehicle were seized today. Unless the bottle had something identifying it as from a UK source.

    • Patrick Mahony

      And there was no trace of novichok on the bus – so they hadn’t handled it up to then. How can you pick something up and not handle it?

        • Tatyana

          Culmination of the story must be Sergei Skripal, jumps on the scene and tells us what we need to know about the bottle! I think Sergei is the main character in the story.

          • Tatyana

            Ah, no, Sergei is no longer russian ex-spy, we know he is british spy, still active, so none would believe him.
            Good news for Charlie, innocent victim will survive and shed some light.

          • Stephen

            “innocent victim” or addict who just got a new home which coincidentally had a bottle of Novichok in it (if that is determined to be the source).

          • CanSpeccy

            Oh, you’ll surely never hear from the Skripals again.

            The CIA must by now have made good on its offer to take care of them. The only question of interest is whether the Skripals alive had some value to the CIA or whether they have been taken care of irreversibly.

            Of course some dubbed video of Yulia in an unidentifiable location and looking ten years younger than before she was poisoned might emerge if needed.

      • Cassandra

        Telekinesis – the CIA is sure to wisk the survivor away to learn his secrets.

  • Sharp Ears

    HMS Duncan is back in Portsmouth after a six month stint in the Mediterranean –

    ‘She left the city, her home port, on January 8 to take over as flagship in Nato’s Standing Maritime Group 2 (SNMG2) – and will return around lunchtime today. The deployment followed a three-year stint in charge of the operation in 2017, and saw her carry out defence engagement activities alongside Nato partners – who include Canada, Germany, Greece, Italy, The Netherlands, Spain, Turkey and the United States. ++As part of this, she provided an air picture on Nato during the American, French and British airstrikes in Syria – and even rescued two Algerian fishermen lost at sea for a number of days.++

    How noble.

    https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/hms-duncan-set-to-return-to-portsmouth-this-afternoon-1-8566841

    And no engine failures. Last year, all six Type 45 ships were tied up in Portsmouth awaiting repairs to the propulsion system, maintenance and crews!
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/six-royal-navys-type-45-11722210
    .

  • Goose

    Since Sergei lived openly at that address and was known to drink at the local pub. Tend to believe someone asking him the time, then brandishing a crowbar would’ve been a more likely assassination method than smuggling in deadly poisons at huge risk of both being caught or poisoning oneself.

  • SA

    That manual does hold the secret to how to get a poison to work by smearing it on a doorknob. If it is in a form of a gel or an aqueous liquid (much less likely as the water will evaporate) then when touched it will certainly leave a sensation of wetness in the skin and the person coming in contact with this will know there is something smeared. On the other hand if it dries out then does the novichok still rest Ian it’s teactivity. I am sure that a chemist will be able to answer this very easily by knowing the chemical and physical properties of novichok.

    • John2o2o

      I have a degree in chemistry. I don’t believe anyone was poisoned by novichok, nor do I believe that any form of “nerve agent” was involved. This is (IMHO) a cover up. They keep repeating the lie. It is embedding itself in the public perception. That is their intention.

      The Skripals were treated for symptoms of opioid poisoning. Ergo, they were poisoned by an opioid.

      • Billy Novichok

        This is a common theory, but it fails to adequately explain at least a couple of important details.

        1) Porton Down confirmed presence of A234 in many samples, but fuck PD. They used to perform human nerve agent experiments which badly injuring several people and killed a 20 year old who didn’t even know what he was volunteering for. Who cares what those demons say.

        2) The OPCW obtained samples under secure chain-of-custody and sent them to multiple independent labs for analysis.

        3) The hospital bloodwork found demolished acetylcholinesterase levels in both of the Skripals. This can’t be explained as Fentanyl overdose.

        4) The OPCW also tested these hospital samples independently and also DNA tested them to confirm they were samples from the Skripals.

        The scientific analysis unanimously disagrees with the theory that there was no nerve agent at all. I don’t see how you could shenanigans on all of these tests without involving a rather implausible number of unrelated people. In my view the OPCW isn’t being totally straight about everything they know, but there are limits to how corrupt you can speculate them to be. Not everybody in the agency is getting paid enough to participate in chemical weapon attacks rather than investigate them.

        • Inquirer

          If I’m not wrong, the OPCW, in the public part of its report, avoided saying that it had found Novichok.Why ?

          • SO.

            Actually they said they found the chemical they were told to find but didn’t say what it was probably because there’s more than one “idea” of novichok.

            (and yes, you’ll note I said IDEA and not “type”.)

            The public idea of novichok A-230, 232 234 etc all more or less originated via the US. (through Vil’s book) and is remarkably similar to a US developed chemical group called GP. (or GV if you’re not a yank ~ it’s right nasty stuff)

            The original idea of what a novichok compound “was” is a complexly unrelated chemical structure. (it was a di-chloro, di-flouro compound)

            The US and UK have been collectively suppressing research into the family for about 20 years now.

            e.g. simple comparisons can be got looking for Steven Hoenigs compendium which lists a234 as being C5H8Cl2F2NO3P (which i remember as being fairly close to the rumour ~ 232 is C4H6Cl2F2NO3P)

            Interesting thing though. GV agent is C6H16FN2O2P and that’s american. A-232 = C7H16FN2O2P and A-234 is now known as C8H18FN2O2P…. a bit odd that eh?

  • Tom Smythe

    This is a huge breakthrough … small bottle in Charlie’s flat with liquid novi still in it. “Inquiries are under way to establish where the bottle came from and how it came to be in Charlie’s house. We are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle…”

    We do not know …
    … if the bottle was glass or plastic
    … if the bottle had a label
    … if the bottle had a screw cap, snap cap or crimped metal cap with butryl syringe access
    … if the bottle originally contained some other product
    … if the country of origin of bottle can be determined
    … if the bottle’s outside was contaminated
    … if Dawn and/or Charlie drank from the bottle
    … if the bottle still contains milliliters of liquid or just traces
    .. if the residual novichok is lab-grade like the Skripals
    .. if the residual novichok has weathered or degraded from lab grade indicated careless disposal post-Skripal
    … if the bottle originated from QEG or a wheelie bin
    … if it really took 11 days to test a top priority item
    … if the outside of the bottle is covered with DNA from many first responders.

    29 June blanket party at Queen Elizabeth Gardens
    30 June Dawn then Charlie admitted to hospital 5 hours apart.
    02 July: Salisbury Hospital gets novichok confirmation from PD
    02 July: flats searched, objects bagged, wheelie bins sealed, QEG cordoned and searched
    03 July:
    04 July:
    05 July:
    06 July:
    07 July:
    08 July: Dawn dies
    09 July:
    10 July:
    11 July: Charlie able to talk, small bottle tested from Amesbury flat
    12 July: Neil Basu says investigators have “no idea” what the container looks like.
    13 July small bottle confirmed by PD to have novichok in it

    • Patrick Mahony

      Don’t forget bus checked – no traces of novichok. C and D supposedly had it on one hand each. CCTV on bus could pinpoint what they touched.

    • CanSpeccy

      The little glass bottle has a paper label that says “DRINK ME”

      Dawn and Charlie no doubt wondered if it was safe to drink or not, as they think to themselves:

      “If one drinks much from a bottle marked ‘Poison,’ it is certain to disagree with one, sooner or later.”

      However, the bottle did not have the word “poison” written on it, so Dawn and Charlie drank every last drop of the bottle’s liquid and found that it tasted absolutely delicious (it had a flavor of cherry tart, custard, pineapple, roast turkey, toffee, and hot buttered toast, all mixed up). But then they found themselves sinking rapidly into a coma and unable to breath properly after drinking from the bottle.

      • Dave54

        Tell that to Rageh Omar amd Julie Etchingham at ITV News, chief pedlars of lies.

  • Stephen

    Going off on a slight tangent here I have this niggling little thing at the back of my mind with regard to everything at the moment. I don’t know why RT & Sputnik haven’t at any point reported the MOD chemical warfare exercise that ran at the same time as the Skripal event. I know for a fact that that they have at least mentioned Pablo Miller in articles which may or may not have been against a “D” notice. So why wouldn’t they have reported on “Operation Toxic Dagger” if only for the sake of sowing more confusion if they are doing the Kremlin’s specific bidding (obviously then have a Russian spin). It just seems too much of a information weapon to not use in the current climate. Call me a a conspiracy theorist, but little things like this make me think there is something very much bigger going on here and we are all being played for sheep in a bigger game. Why does there have to be a cold war narrative going on when Russia won’t use it’s biggest weapons to defend itself in the public arena ? I also think Russia has just been a bit timid in responding to these accusations.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exercise-toxic-dagger-the-sharp-end-of-chemical-warfare

    • bj

      Like I said, the timing of Mueller’s nothing-burger (what’s your order?) and the bottle (want something to go with that?) are very conveniently coinciding with the Putin-Trump get-together.

  • Tom Smythe

    I can speak to the DNA issue. It will play out very similarly to the recent Golden State’ serial killer case: ancestry registry –> distant relatives –> close relatives –> perp. That’s on top of various other deduced traits such as gender, eye, hair and skin color, regional affinities, blood type, Y chromosome markers, other unique sequence identifiers and so on.

    DNA is everywhere in the environment. Even if the original owner of the bottle wore nitrile gloves the whole time, handled it with forceps, and washed the outside, the bottle would still have plenty of their DNA on it to amplify. First up would be a complete mitochondrial DNA sequence as that is present at a great molar excess over genomic and gives the maternal inheritance. Then they would go for the parental side, the Y. Then various autosomal genes of interest would be partly recovered.

    It all revolves around who else has handled outside of the bottle. That would include Dawn, Charlie and perhaps other innocents in Salisbury. Then the detectives who gathered up materials in the flat, then everyone in the chain of custody to the PD analyst. With CTP, you would think they would know better than to mess up evidence. It doesn’t really matter, only makes it harder, because the forensics would have samples of all the CoC individuals DNA to subtract off.

    The whole thing strikes me as an amateurish attack. How did the outside get contaminated, by pouring liquid over the side at the time of the Skripals? There are so many sure options for irrevocable disposal, nothing like this would be left to chance by state-trained.

    Even in the wild conspiratorial scenarios involving Charlie and Dawn as wholly unreliable paid perps/dupes (Indonesian airport), there’s a dust bin right outside the flat, emptied weekly, why keep the stuff around for four months knowing how dangerous it is.

    Operation Toxic Dagger … the timing is curious. PD for sure has A234 in stock. No way though would ‘live ammunition’ like this ever be used in a bulk troop exercise; there’s plenty of sarin and vx on hand that would be a lot cheaper and safer. The proximity to PD however and a freelance initiative from an ¨uber-patriotic employee cannot be discounted. That’s apparently what happened at the Battelle weaponizing facility with the anthrax.

    So the very first thing Pol;ice should be checking is whether bottle and batch match that stored as reference at PD.

    • Tom Smythe

      Now one of the papers is saying glass: Counter terrorism investigators recovered a small glass bottle from the home of victim, Charlie Rowley…” Perhaps one of those small liquor bottles (vodka?) you are allowed to bring on the airplane. Dawn has a 21-year history of picking things like that up.

      “How many mini bottles of alcohol can you bring on a plane?
      Travelers may carry as many 3.4 ounce bottles of liquid (mini bottles of liquor are 1.7 ounces) that fit comfortably in one, quart sized, clear plastic, zip-top bag. Comfortable means that the bag will seal without busting at the seams. One bag is permitted per passenger…”

      Ominously, Britain pressured OPCW into the blame game a week or so back; today they announced bringing OPCW into analyzing the bottle’s content. Whereas previous the OPCW lab in Switzerland said they had complete confidence in PD’s still-secret analysis and it would be redundant for them to do a second secret study. They do not want scrutiny from highly qualified outside synthetic organic chemists like Prof. Collum.

      • Stephen

        It has already been determined that Russia did it so there can only be results made public proving Russia culpable. Any other result will be altered to fit the culprit. Unless they need a new way to get rid of Trump.

        • Patrick Mahony

          This news must have been known hours ago by TPTB. Yet a police car was seized in Chippenham and a vehicle from the air ambulance base at Semington (the rapid response vehicle, presumably).
          I wonder if a Shipman-type scenario is being prepared as a get out.

    • truthwillout

      That raised a question… Hen did Charlie move into that flat. If it was a new build maybe only recently. This is important. I wanted to be a forensics detective at one time… But two years in uniform seemed too much of an obstacle.

      • Jo

        Presumably it will be purchased on behalf of us tax payers too…..could turn it to a museum or rent it out to Porton Down visitors….

        • truthwillout

          Somebody bought it, presumably as a 2-bed home in 2/3/4 bed development, as is the current requirement. They rented it out and Charlie took up the tenancy (or was he staying there for free?) When did they buy it, and why did they rent it out?

          • lissnup

            I was told Rowley was housed in the upstairs maisonete by a housing association, perhaps one that supports rehabilitation of former addicts or offenders. He is qualified in both respects.

  • Tom Welsh

    Actually the Ukrainians or Georgians do seem likely perpetrators. We ned someone who combines extreme savagery, a complete lack of scruples, and extreme – almost comical – incompetence.

    The question is whether Ukraine or Georgia fits that description better than the USA or UK. To be honest, I’m in doubt.

    • John2o2o

      You’ve no evidence for that either.

      In fact, no member of the public has any idea of what happened.

  • Gary

    Why would ANYONE murder someone with Novichok? Why would ANYONE murder someone with Polonium, especially as it has a DEFINITE identifiable source?

    Far easier to kill someone by the usual methods. Killing with Novichok or Polonium hasn’t made the deaths and injuries look like an accident or illness, so that being the case, why not use a simpler, easy to handle method. One which DOESN’T endanger the assassin?

    The ONLY reason to use these substances is to make the killings attributable.

    Only in the case of former KGB man Skripal, is there a REAL motive. The motive is the fact he helped with the Trump dossier. I don’t think that was the primary REASON for killing him, just an added bonus.

    Skripal had given all the intel he could to anyone, the only thing he could possibly do now was to stay in touch with current officers and get tit bits of info. Basically he was of no use except as a corpse.

    With the polonium I have seen (YouTube) video evidence of French Intelligence stating that it was thought that the Polonium was brought over for the assassination in order to discredit Putin in the eyes of the West by rivals at the top in the Russian military or government. For very real reasons they are not able to be obvious about their feelings to Putin.

    The accusation is that security services including French, British and US were complicit in this.

    I have no doubt that the motivation is the same here, although there is no reason to get the Novichok from Russia, it can be produced literally anywhere. Was it produced in Porton Down? It didn’t have to be and I think not. The advantage of an attack NEAR Porton Down is that there would be an experienced clean up squad VERY close to hand.

    Still, though, it was an overcomplicated attack. But, given the GCHQ Scientists and the Body in the Holdall cases, this seems to be the preferred method. Whereas the Russians prefer simple strangulation made to look like a hanging (suicide)

    Just after the Skripal case another Russian was murdered in London I seem to remember – that never stayed in the news long, nor was it mentioned by ANY politician. Isn’t THAT odd??

    • Kempe

      ” Why would ANYONE murder someone with Novichok? Why would ANYONE murder someone with Polonium, especially as it has a DEFINITE identifiable source? ”

      Possibly because they WANT people to know who did it, without having to own up, to put the fear of god into the rest.

      • MightyDrunken

        Reading the stories at the time of the Litvinenko saga. the consensus was that polonium was chosen because it would be hard to detect. The alpha particles released would not leave the body and no one would normally suspect it.

        Of course who knows? Does Russia like trolling or is it a Western intelligence agency who likes theatre? These two cases certainly seem similar, an unusual method which once suspected is relatively easy to trace. Many other methods would quickly evaporate or would not be noticeable. The other curious thing is why were both in the UK?

        • truthwillout

          Either Russia poisoned Litvinenko or he was poisoned to make Russian look bad. Why the latter? Chirac had gone by then and had been replaced by the compliant Sarkozy… but Putin was still there as a threat to the neocons in the UNSC. After Iraq the next country for regime change was Syria. I remember watching a BBC documentary in Damascus where the reporters were winding up the local police who then started following them about. This was presented as evidence of a police state. After the Hutton Report was published, the BBC stopped being a relatively neutral broadcaster. Why was Syria targeted? That was the only country that supported Saddam Hussein against WMD resolution (1441).

        • Igor P.P.

          There are two more possibilities. One is that OPCW did not identify a Novichok – the report is kept secret even from Russia, and the open “summary” does not name the found chemical. Another is that Novichok was later added to the samples or pieces of evidence, as Lavrov’s statement alleges.

        • Sergei

          They could have been given tainted samples.

          And yes, there are people in the OPCW who are supporting the machinations of the collective “West”. Recall the Khan Sheikhoun “investigation”, which was based on the samples given to OPCW in *Turkey*. So the soil samples were collected by the Islamists (the interested party who claimed an attack had happened) in Khan Sheikhoun, then transported over Syrian territory, then transported over Turkish territory — all without an appropriate chain of custody. Yet OPCW decided to accept these samples.

          In the case of Skripals, the chain of custody could have been broken in a similar fashion by some OPCW experts “looking the other way”. Alternatively, trace amounts of “Novichok-class” A234 chemical could have been injected into the bloodstreams of unconscious Skripals just before the collection of samples.

  • justguessing

    If that container isn’t exclusively made in Russia Elvis is alive, Trump is a genius and May is the greatest PM of all time.

    • laguerre

      I’m sure that the bottle will be Russian. They need the proof, and bottles made in Russia aren’t difficult to obtain.

  • jazza

    Help! Help! Help!
    I’m sinking under the weight of forensic bullshit being spouted here whilst the elites continue to rob the planet of resources and wealth – what TFH is TreasonMay still doing as PM of this godforsaken country???? Why are they marching against Trump when nobody marched FOR the poor and disabled and homeless and disenfranchised??? Even the TUC doesn’t do ‘protest’ anymore – the country’s gone F***ing Mad

  • Ken Underwood

    Nice work Mr Murray! 🙂
    What are your thoughts on BX, an incapacitating agent, not Novichok, a deadly nerve agent, being the substance applied to the Skripals?
    This was found by the Swiss OPCW-designated laboratory along with super-fatal levels of Novichok, obviously spiked.
    This was mentioned by Sergei Lavrov no less but seems to have dropped off the radar!

  • Ben

    The Ruthless Right have a distinct advantage over the Left.

    They don’t suffer from the anguish of conscience or debate the negatives. Like recidivist convicts, anti social behavior exploits those they feel are weak. To them compassion and mercy are a weakness.

    You cant play nice with sociopaths. They must be treated as they treat others or they will roll right over your snowflake disposition. Good guys finish dead last.

  • Sharp Ears

    How Israel helped to revive Europe’s ugly ethnic nationalisms
    Israel preserved a tribal idea of citizenship that followers of Trump and Europe’s far-right now seek to emulate
    Jonathan Cook
    13 July 2018
    ‘Polarisation within western societies on issues relating to migration and human rights has been intensifying over recent weeks and months. To many observers, it looks suspiciously as if an international order in place since the end of the second world – one that emphasised universal rights as a way to prevent dehumanisation and conflict – is rapidly unravelling in Europe and the United States.’
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/how-israel-helped-revive-europe-s-ugly-ethnic-nationalisms-540915165

    On the sidebar, I noticed that yet another Palestinian teenager has been killed today by the IDF at the ‘border’ protest in Gaza,

    Israeli forces kill Palestinian teenager at Gaza protest
    Othman Heles is the 138th Palestinian to have been killed since the beginning of the Great March of Return
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-forces-kill-palestinian-teenager-gaza-protest-great-march-return-100-days-971857939

    He was 15.

  • Paul

    To me looks like the Police man put the Nobicho on them when they were sat in the Park

  • Tom Smythe

    >>the Ukrainians wot dun it.

    Hmmm, so we should expect an airline bottle with a Kruto horilka label? But wouldn’t a highly trained Russian hit team be more likely to use an empty Stolichnaya lying about? To throw the British off the scent with a too-obvious false flat.

    Or would that more likely be the work of Yulia’s flaky fiancé (and KGB mom), after Yulia’s Moscow apt and recent 200K inheritance (resp. after traitor revenge). They knew she would be at Sergei’s that weekend for the first anniversary of her brother Alexandr’s mysterious early death (which followed close upon Sergei’s wife’s and brother’s untimely deaths). They might have access to novichok diverted long ago and not care about attribution (dislike Putin).

    It revolves somewhat around whether the exterior novichok is as fresh as that of the sealed (?) interior. That would argue against careless disposal and in favor of a second round of Russia bashing that would point back at the Ukrainians. No question, a half-empty bottle of vodka tossed into the bushes at Lizzie Gardens would find a taker within the day.

    • truthwillout

      I should think they are not asking it for the same reason rt were not asking questions about the dress rehearsal before 4th March.

        • truthwillout

          Well, that could be the case, but it could also be sloppy/cautious reporting. RT journalists want to progress with their careers just as much as daily mail journalists. They may also have mouths to feed and big mortgages.

    • bj

      The bottle (* needed to make the rounds at Porton Down, the OPCW (overseas), and finally in all likelihood across Westminster and Downing Street 10 for a last decisive snif & sip.

      *) Note we’re back into grams territory here; the erroneous OPCW corrected their silly ‘mistake’ of a ‘100 gram’ by a factor thousand to make it ‘100 mg’; the chagrined MET police now scale it back up to ‘a bottle’.

  • Jack

    Were Charlie and Dawn involved in Skripal poisoning attempt?
    Seems weird that they picked up a random container taking it home, only to shoot this uknown liquid into your arm.

    • Steve

      It does seem plausible. Maybe they were instructed to carry out the hit on the Skripals. The images of the couple on the CCTV in March does bear a likeness to Rowley and Sturgess. I’d be very curious to see if an image analyst could come up with a “percentage fit” between the two. And we have Rowley’s brother mentioning that he doesn’t know how his brother “got invollved with that lot”.

  • Tatyana

    May be Scripal affair is not anti-russian in its core? May be it is anti-Trump?
    January 2018 Mike Pompeo meets in Washington with russian directors of FSB, military intelligence and foreign intelligence. March 4 – Scripals are poisoned, March 13 – Trump gives Pompeo new position of Home Secretary.
    May be CIA tried to get Skripal, but British intelligence prevented it. May be it is trade going now between the two. May be the bottle appears in so timely manner due to Trump’s visit? May be it is all settled with russians beforehand?

  • AndyH

    Take a few days off Craig and enjoy the festival. Wish i could have been there. Maybe next year
    best wishes.

  • Tom Smythe

    Met chief: “I also appreciate there is a lot of interest in this; however, we are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle at this stage.”

    Met Police is rapidly losing control of the narrative … again. Limiting press dribbles to a ‘vial first found at the victim’s house Wednesday but then rushed to Porton Down’ — all that does is trigger newspaper takes like these:

    “9 days for chemical experts to find a bottle in the drug addicts house?…and it’s found a few days before trump’s meets with putin….i don’t think so…someone put it there…and it wasn’t Mr Rowley”

    “if a massive effort was undertaken to search for the container why did it take 9 days to find a bottle in the victims home when it should have been discovered within hours. either our police are incompetent or the bottle was planted after the original searches ended.”

    “they din’t find it searching … it was hidden, they had to wait on Charlie to tell them where to look.”

    “This story is like a 22-episode Miss Marple’s. There is no evidence against the accused and just when it all goes quiet another clue turns up.”

    From a legal standpoint, fair trial and all that, police aren’t supposed to try cases in the press, key evidence might later be deemed inadmissible or an unprejudiced jury too hard to find, leading to the perp walking free. But here they’ve already forward with the Russian state guilty as charged, 110% certain despite zero evidence, while saying once again the complex investigation is in still its infancy. Just like the Skripal investigation.

    • KEN KENN

      Curious this Novichock in a bottle stuff.

      If the lady had thought it was a minature vodka and swigged it right there and then, surely no doubt,
      she would have died on the spot?

      If some of the poison had spilt on the bottle – how come the assailant hasn’t been reported dead ( or dying )
      after similar outside of bottle contamination?

      I am still puzzled as to why only five people have been cross contaminated and no more have reported symptoms similar to the original five.

      A lot of potential theories but my current best wild guess ( and it could be completely wild ) is that it is possible that someone is making their own domestic produced drugs for sale in the Salisbury area with
      a concentrated substance from a certain lab ( and it’s nor the local chemists ) and manufacturing some type
      of recreational drug(s) in tablet or stamp like form – Microdots?

      I’m not any type of expert in the making or taking of drugs but is it possible that home made drugs strengths can be miscalculated when being produced outside of a lab?

      Also – in the case of the Skripals would a daughter take drugs with her dad – or was something administered in a drink or a meal?

      • truthwillout

        One thing is for sure… The door handle theory is and always has been rubbish and everyone must know that. Even with organophosphate poisoning, they would have fallen ill in the time it takes for the chemical to get absorbed either via stomach or via skin.

  • John2o2o

    I am going to post this again. Goodness knows if anyone will read it. I do wish people would stop swallowing the bait! Even the skeptics here seem to be convincing themselved that novichok was involved.

    Go back to the first reports. The Skripals were suspected of being poisoned by a highly toxic synthetic opioid called fentanyl. Why? Because they were exhibiting symptoms of opioid poisoning. If you have a cold you have certain recognisable symptoms. It is the same with poisoning. They were poisoned by an opioid.

    I have here a semi-serious “conspiracy theory.” I am not saying this is true, but it does answer some of the questions and implies a monstrous cover up by the security services of this country, desperate to save face. Here goes:

    Sergei Skripal’s MI6 handler Pablo Miller was in love with Yulia Skripal, but she had rejected him. Unable to handle the rejection and thirsting for revenge for his hurt feeling, Miller poisoned Yulia at the restaurant where they ate a few hours earlier, with Fentanyl, a highly potent synthetic opioid.

    Although not the target, Yulia’s ageing father also had a glass of Yulia’s bottle of wine into which Miller had put the Fentanyl. This was not a part of Miller’s plan. Sergei was not usually a drinker of wine, he preferred cold beer.

    After the pair left the restaurant they soon fell ill, but the poison took time to take effect – enough time for Miller to make his getaway. He went to the Skripal’s house (he had a key) to lie low. As an MI6 agent he knew this was the last place they would look for him.

    Miller was arrested by DS Bailey at the Skripal’s house. During the arrest Miller also attempted to poison Bailey with the Fentanyl. In the ensuing struggle some of the Fentanyl was smeared on the door handle. Miller has been under house arrest since March while MI6 decide what to do with him.

    Well, that’s my “conspiracy theory” anyway. I don’t say it is true. It’s just an idea.

    People: stop taking the bait”. Maybe all of what we are being told is lie after lie after lie to cover this up: that an out of control British secret service agent poisoned an innocent Russian national.

    • bj

      “Even the skeptics here seem to be convincing themselved that novichok was involved.”

      There must be plenty of people here who take issue with that statement, among whom me.

  • Badger

    New to posting here but have been trying to keep up. Remembering Mr Toad from the Kelly case – he wrote “Hutton is a jigsaw puzzle. And like all the best puzzles there was a piece missing. Some people have found the missing piece, but they keep trying to put it in upside-down”. So what if Yulia was a slightly clumsy and sometimes-gloved Novi smuggler/courier acting on her father’s instructions? And the real target was Nikolai Glushkov, because he was just about to plea-bargain and whistleblow about Aeroflot’s missing $123M? Berezovsky was long dead – himself linked to Chechen warlords and they to Leonid Rink’s ‘garage’ Novi – who else amongst the Russian mafiosi had the wherewithal to do this and wanted to protect themselves from further disclosure? Did they then order plan ‘B’ against Glushkov? Beyond all this – what also if Dawn Sturgess was a handbag thief who just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time? Following on again from this – did her hospitalised associate knows all about the local bins that don’t get regularly emptied and nothing at all about the ongoing debate here on Craig’s forum?

    • Sergei

      The almost simultaneous death of Glushkov is very suspicious indeed. Equally suspicious is the complete lack of discussion of it by the British media. Has it been D-Noticed as well?

1 2 3 4 5 6 … 13

Comments are closed.