The mainstream media are making almost no effort today to fit Charlie Rowley’s account of his poisoning into the already ludicrous conspiracy theory being peddled by the government and intelligence agencies.
ITV News gamely inserted the phrase “poisoned by a Russian nerve agent” into their exclusive interview with Charlie Rowley, an interview in which they managed to ask no penetrating questions whatsoever, and of which they only broadcast heavily edited parts. Their own website contains this comment by their journalist Rupert Evelyn:
He said it was unopened, the box it was in was sealed, and that they had to use a knife in order to cut through it.
“That raises the question: if it wasn’t used, is this the only Novichok that exists in this city? And was it the same Novichok used to attack Sergei and Yulia Skripal?
But the information about opening the packet with a knife is not in the linked interview. What Rowley does say in the interview is that the box was still sealed in its cellophane. Presumably it was the cellophane he slit open with a knife.
So how can this fit in to the official government account? Presumably the claim is that Russian agents secretly visited the Skripal house, sprayed novichok on the door handle from this perfume bottle, and then, at an unknown location, disassembled the nozzle from the bottle (Mr Rowley said he had to insert it), then repackaged and re-cellophaned the bottle prior to simply leaving it to be discovered somewhere – presumably somewhere indoors as it still looked new – by Mr Rowley four months later. However it had not been found by anyone else in the interim four months of police, military and security service search.
Frankly, the case for this being the bottle allegedly used to coat the Skripals’ door handle looks wildly improbable. But then the entire government story already looked wildly improbable anyway – to the extent that I literally do not know a single person, even among my more right wing family and friends, who believes it. The reaction of the media, who had shamelessly been promoting the entirely evidence free “the Russians did it” narrative, to Mr Rowley’s extremely awkward piece of news has been to shove it as far as possible down the news agenda and make no real effort to reconcile it.
By his own account, Mr Rowley is not a reliable witness, his memory affected by the “Novichok”. It is not unreasonable to conjecture there may also be other reasons why he is vague about where and how he came into possession of this package of perfume.
The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder.
What is astonishing is a member of the public has found Novichok in an unopened bottle. That bottle was found 300 yards from where the Skirpals fell ill – but not where they were poisoned – four miles away.
What a coincidence….
What’s more, there must be a similar bottle which has been opened and used to poison the Skirpals. Surely the police would alert the local people to avoid a similar bottle at all costs – but no….
The locals will have to guess what the branded bottle looks like. In the meantime, good luck.
If I were a police officer and I found Nivichok in a house, the occupants would be the chief suspects.
“I found it under a bush” would normally be a rather pathetic alibi – especially for
a chemical nerve agent. But not in this instance.
I’m not suggesting Charlie Rowley is a suspect but there is much, much more to this story that meets the eye.
My suspicions were first raised when the BBC chose the footage of Dawn Sturgess in an off licence buying wine and spirits as if to frame in our minds the type of woman she was.
A boozy, drug taking down and out.
There must have been numerous sightings of her around Salisbury that day – however, this is the one image the BBC wanted us to see.
“more to this story (than) meets the eye”
People in what areas of society are easiest for Porton Down to test their weapons and techniques on? And what authority structures are easiest for them to use?
“There must have been numerous sightings of her around Salisbury that day – however, this is the one image the BBC wanted us to see.”
That which is missing often is the most telling.
Excellent observation.
Earlier on, SA supposes that the point of Amesbury is diversion. I couldn’t disagree, but there’s so little effort being put into the diversion, that you’d think they’ve given up. No great histories of the evils of the Russian regime.
laguerre
The Novichok story has already achieved its aim and even Europe and US moved away from making much of the sequel. It has become an embarrassment to the UKG. Even the MSM seem to have relegated it to a secondary place but self righteous politicians can now safely adopt this as another proof of how Russia is blatantly interfering with our politics. My point is that trying to analyse all the new findings that are being drip fed has now become a big sport in this website. Craig has published several blogs on this whilst seemingly ignoring some bigger issues that I mentioned. This is a diversion of our collective effort which I believe should be spent analysing and exposing other larger and quicker moving topics.
I am also aware that this is Craig’s blog and he can write what he wants. However the power of this blog depends on topicality and frequent updates something which is sadly not happening. This site is too valuable to become a one topic site.
@ SA July 25, 2018 at 23:58
But CW’s are extremely important these days; I would not be surprised if the next big False Flag attack in Europe/US wasn’t a CW attack or hoax.
And of course we know where to look for the ‘culprit’, Iran. After all, it is known Iran produced Novichocks.
So yes, the issue is still on the middle burner. Syria or Iran, who is going to be the next ‘accused’?
There is no question they are important but this story has run its course and no amount of further analysis can make sense of these disjointed facts fed to us. Of course the Skripal novichok story followed by the non-chemical attack in the final day before Douma was fully liberated were connected and were meant to tie the use by Russia of s nerve agent with a similar use in Syria.
That the fact that after 4 months the authorities have failed to advance the Skripals story is very telling. The Amesbury incident is too bizarre to even attempt to analyse logically. And as you pointed out earlier, a letter from a resident asks why there are still so many unsolved questions when the Skripals and now Rowley are alive and should be able to answer some of them.
Have you read this excellent piece:
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/06/15/letter-from-britain-an-establishment-blinded-by-russophobia/
I agree that Amesbury is now looking less like something carefully planned. If it was designed to provide a trail to Russia, they could have come up with something more plausible than this “prefume bottle” nonsense. One possibility is that there’s significant opposition inside goverment/police/secret services to doing whatever it takes to blame Russia. So the fabrication efforts get sabotaged and/or acted against. If the scriptwriters are not in full control as appears to be the case, interesting times ahead.
This is all rather silly – hyperbolically silly.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/25/jewish-newspapers-claim-corbyn-poses-existential-threat
*
You have to wonder why they would care? Is Corbyn anti Jewish and ready to attack Israel and the Jews, well obviously not. Will he be less inclined to participate in the Israel / American war agenda. Why yes.
He will never be forgiven for his support of the Palestinians over years. Many EDMs and speeches in the HoC and at demonstrations.
It’s all in the eye of the beholder.
Given the sufficient pathology, anyone can be regarded as an existential threat.
Myopic murderous paranoid Israel is built on such a pathology, so.
You can bet that the majority of middle-class British people do believe the goverment narrative. “You have to trust your goverment” as one of my collegues, an IT engineer in his mid-thrities put it. Some question it, but for the most the idea that they are lied to and manipulated by the people in charge of this country is just too uncomfortable.
“just too uncomfortable”?
I came across this the other day:
53 Admitted False Flag Attacks (by various govts.)
http://tapnewswire.com/2016/03/53-admitted-false-flag-attacks/
Maybe show it to your collegue.
Like Craig, I know no-one who believes the official line about the Skripals regardless of their political views. The various forums on which it gets discussed, echo this.
I begin to suspect , from the tone and content of some recent posts here, that some posters are just trolls seeking to muddy a complicated case for their own reasons. So I am reluctantly going to stop posting.
I have found your posts worth reading.
Short memories.
Tony “steps back” after open mass murder, but nothing really changes.
In fact it’s worse now in a lot of ways. ..This is what happens when there is no accounting. No cleaning house.
Judging from various comments, first of all from Craig, and second from a number of commenters here, your statement is highly inaccurate.
Rejoice that it is!
I wish the audience of this blog was representative of the whole society. But my experience has been that by and large, people tend to believe what goverment, and to a lesser degree, MSM, tell them. Even more so when it aligns with the beliefs consistently fostered in them by the same institutions throughout their lives. This applies to the UK just as well as to any other country.
The Novichok Plane Crash – A decoded neutrino transmission records a 100ml glass bottle of ‘perfume’ in a 20cm x 20cm resealable bag took out all passengers and crew of a commercial flight. Attempts to identify the flight have failed so far.
It all just looks like bullshit. It is totally pathetic that the power structure expects people to believe this bollocks and it is even more pathetic that they get large numbers to accept this drivel.
This long article is well worth a read:
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/06/15/letter-from-britain-an-establishment-blinded-by-russophobia/
It proposes a reason for this anti-Russia madness.
Spoiler: it’s a bonding mechanism for elites that feel threatened. I.e. not really directed towards or meant for the general public.
George Galloway raised an idea that the Ukrainians were behind it. He was so told, he said, by an unnamed army officer at a social function. Under the cui bono rule, this would seem plausible.
By the way, those who say we should drop this story have all got Cheltenham or Shepherd’s Market addresses, I assume?
No.
They are burrowing for two weeks.
I don’t think they actually care whether the details of the saga add up or not (they clearly don’t). As long the words “deadly” and “Russian” are featured in the same sentence over and over again, and across all media (even the ones that are critical), that seems to enough to suit their purpose.
Two separate attacks likely, both aimed at Russia, to disrupt the world cup. Criminal still at large. Will he strike again? Could have put poison on door handle and when that did not work followed Skripals to the park to spray them. Knew who Skripal was. May have put perfume somewhere Charlie or someone else would find it. Packed in new box as a Trojan horse. This was months after Skripals, during the world cup. Bet the Novichok was smuggled out of Porton Down. Only thing Russian about it is the name, to tie poisonings to Russia.
all you say may be truemad
bad
tuvalet
half xJx has h ich
hjdjx void hhck had l
on the crappy BBC’swebshite
Phi phi leider nicht
Kann xJx jk
To quote PT Barnum, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
‘the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime’
Exactly!
I will not comment on this deadly farce anymore. It has now turned into such incredibility, that no sane grown up person will believe it; well outside the British Isles that is, inside they will probably believe anything (Brexit, anyone ?) including Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny.
Here in docile and placid Scandinavia, the case is simply not reported on anymore, I suspect it is simply because it is even more stupid and irrelevant than Paradise Island. That the whole story has claimed a life is tragic, but I suppose a dead victim was needed in order for this story to be accepted, yes, I do believe these people are capable of such heinous crimes.
But while the British plebs digest these facts, they can in the meantime prepare to celebrate the arrival of their favorite movie stars: The White Helmets! They will be touring the Isles shortly, lets hope the b*stards do not show examples of their handicraft.
BTW enjoy the warm weather, it is natural and has nothing to do with climate change!
And no, you are not welcome in Scandinavia, when the temperature hits 50 degrees Celsius!
I always like to see the views of citizens of other countries – it helps to keep things in perspective. I am sure Theresa May will be disappointed to hear that “in…Scandinavia, the case is simply not reported on anymore”. It’s getting rather like that in the UK! The UK govt are now taking – or are about to take – their summer holidays. As far as their priorities lie, there is nothing of national or world importance that can stand in the way of that! I am sure in the meantime there are people behind the scenes working on the next fake news/false flag against Russia but with strict instructions not to activate anything until after the holidays are over.
You are so right about the White Helmets. Yesterday one of our MPs (Tom Tugendhat) was demanding that more be done to bring to justice jihadis returning to the UK from Syria. He represents the same people who will no doubt welcome White Helmets with open arms. Talk about hypocrisy! It would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious.
Russia thanks Israel for striking ISIS inside Syria
25 Jul 2018 | 23:20 GMT
The Russian military has thanked their Israeli counterparts for striking Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) terrorist positions inside Syria, after IS fighters tried to draw IDF fire on Syrian army positions by launching rockets into Israel. “A targeted strike by IDF jets and artillery promptly destroyed ISIS terrorists and their rocket launchers,” the Russian defense ministry said in a statement, thanking “the IDF leadership for killing terrorists and preventing a large-scale provocation.” The IDF confirmed the strikes, noting that they came in response to two rockets launched at Israel from Syria.
!!!!!
Will they also thank Israel for killing Palestinians?
RT website.
What’s going on? Who to believe?
July 24, 2018
Syria – For The Third Time Israel Falsely Claims Iran Pull-Back Deal With Russia
A typical Israeli propaganda scheme is to falsely claim that an agreement with some entity has been made and to then push that entity to stick to a “deal” it never agreed to. Israel dislikes any ‘Iranian presence’ in Syria. It tries to press on Russia to push Iran out of Syria by claiming that Russia offered or made such a deal.
Last fall a campaign in Israeli media claimed that Russia had agreed to push Iran away from the border with Israel. Russia denied that anything like that happened. Iranian forces in Syria are legitimately there. In late May a similar campaign repeated that scheme. It claimed that the Russian Foreign Minister had agreed to move Iran out, when in fact he had called on U.S. forces to leave Syria. Moon of Alabama documented both campaigns.
/..
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/07/syria-for-the-third-time-israel-falsely-claims-iran-pull-back-deal-with-russia-.html#more
Yes I saw that. So they are thanking them for not using this as an excuse to bomb the SAA. Well done. I realise that Russian diplomacy is based on trying not to antagonise deliberately but this sometimes means that their statements border on the naive.
That’s the first instance that I know of an Israeli attack on IS or any Al Qaeda group. Does anyone know of any previous ones? Israel has launched plenty of strikes in Syria against the Syrian army, Iranians and Hezbollah – who are fighting those terrorist organisations.
For years, Israel had no problem with an IS-connected group controlling territory close to its border. The attack yesterday looks like it was just for show – to show that Israel is threatened by terrorists and will fight back. It’s only doing it now because it’s clear that the Syrians are certain to recapture that territory anyway.
It was obviously unusual enough to generate that note from Russia. In the past I have only heard of Israel hitting the SAA regardless of who fired at Israel.
I think the Russians are being cleverly devious in that thank you note . Israel has been trying to antagonise Russia and Syria by constantly provoking them this week they shot down the Syrian plane over the Goulan. If Russia remained silent on this attack on IS, You’d have probably got an IDF statement saying Israel attacked Syrian rockets attacking Israel . Like the principle expressed in the moon of Alabama article .
You gave no source –which may be telling– here.
BJ
Sharp ears already linked the article MOA Article I mentioned . The remaining interpretation is my own view on statement by Russia .
No he hasn’t!
I meant the first quote that he gave, in the comment before that.
Ah apologies for confusion BJ . I think it’s this RT article .
https://www.rt.com/newsline/434276-idf-syria-attack-isis/
thanks Isa
Is this a sign that the Western support for the insurgents has ended?
https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/21/what-did-the-salisbury-physician-mean-by-no-patients-have-experienced-symptoms-of-nerve-agent-poisoning/
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/
Looks like the letter was badly edited and it was to correct the statement by The Times which said, “Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”
If we change the letter slightly maybe we get what Davies actually meant.
“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no other patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning.
In Canada, the lily ‘White Helmets’ are being kept that way by a total domestic mainstream media lock down of the real story. Canadians apparently are not to be told the uncomfortable truth, certainly not by domestic msm, that the 250 ‘humanitarian aid volunteers’ weeks away from being ‘settled’ here, are in reality blood-soaked Al Qaeda jihadi proxies that had to be extracted from Syria by Israel in such indecent haste because, as a very wise man observed, ‘they know where all the bodies are buried.’
How ironic then, that the Trudeau foreign minister who is stick-handling this dirty business is herself descended from an earlier, similar ‘rescue’ by Canada of Ukrainian, Banderite Nazis including the Galizien SS and Minister Chrystia Freeland’s own grandfather, a newspaper editor who published the worst kind of Jew-hating Nazi propaganda in occupied Poland. Minister Freeland thus now performs a similar role in whitewashing and promoting the lavishly funded Al Qaeda affiliated PR operation as her grandfather did concealing the murderous realities of Nazi rule in occupied eastern Europe.
Unless one is lucky enough to have stumbled upon sites like this one, or perhaps seen the excellent in depth alternative coverage from independent journalists like Vanessa Beeley or Eva Bartlett, this is what you will be reading about the White Helmets in Canada:
Chrystia Freeland Says Plight of Stranded White Helmets Keeps Her ‘Awake at Night’
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/white-helmets-freeland-interview-1.4760456
How Canada’s Woman in Istanbul Began the Daring Rescue of Syria’s White Helmets
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-how-canada-led-the-triumphant-rescue-of-white-helmets-in-syria/
ps ‘Canada’s Woman in Istanbul’, at least according to her twitter-feed, appears to keep herself busy connnecting to various elements of the Syrian ‘opposition’ resident there, even arranging funding. This is typical back-room munga-munga business for Canada. Behind the smiling facade of its ‘sunny ways’ prime minister Justin Trudeau, and a ‘feminist foreign policy’, playing devils little helper has always been what Canada does best. Here’s hoping the White Helmets fiasco continues to be exposed and perhaps soon, even in Canada.
This shows the importance of the white Helmets to the West. In rescuing them and through Israel they have admitted that they are western constructs. I would also not be surprised at all that the majority of those rescued are not Syrian anyway.
On other occasions where the West has cried clamoured about humanitarian disasters following the SAA liberating Aleppo and East Ghouta nothing of the sort materialised. On this occasion the campaign to liberate the Dara’a pocket was swift because many rebels decided to give up seeing the futility resistance in the light of what happened elswhere. The borders with Jordan fell to the SAA much quicker than anticipated and the high profile rescue had to be done through Israel.
In addition to the WH it has been reported in local media but not the MSM, that 4 prominent leaders of the rebels have also gone to Israel
The white helmets are a great group to embed a few special forces in.
“I would also not be surprised at all that the majority of those rescued are not Syrian anyway”. I watched the latest discussion on the link provided by Robyn below and it appears that Vanessa Beeley was involved in a discussion on the WH evacuation on Al Mayadeen (a pan-Arabist satellite TV channel which broadcasts from Beirut) and the two other guests (from Damascus and Jordan) told her that the evacuees were mainly from UAE, Qatar and Saudi Arabia; most were not Syrian. [My additional comment: I could almost guarantee that the same statistical conclusion applies to the so-called ‘Syrian’ refugees who came to Europe – they may have come from Syrian territory but most of them weren’t born there].
The West’s greatest fear is that if the WH were left in Syria and taken in for questioning by the Syrians and/or Russians they would reveal all about their contrived activities and who was pulling the strings.
Also amazing that so much big armaments have been surrendered too….tanks…carriers etc etc…proof of where they came from one wonders?
Indeed, Jo. Vanessa Beeley’s Twitter account has a photograph taken by the SAA of a vehicle abandoned by the evacuated WHs & co – it’s a Reva US anti-tank military vehicle which was previously possessed by the UN Mission in the region (Golan Heights).
Sorry, should have described vehicle as a Reva US anti-MINE military vehicle.
Real grassroots armed groups like the IRA and ETA take decades to build up a few old weapons but IS acquired more war matériel than some armies. That alone proves its somebody’s army, and if it had been anybody else’s but the west’s we’d have been bombarded with news about it and how supplying it was an atrocity etc.
Everything you need to know about the White Helmets is here – reports from journalists IN Syria:
https://21stcenturywire.com/tag/White-Helmets/
Yes, here in Canada we love head choppers and racist and religious fanatics of all kinds. Not only does our Prime Minister, Justin the Wise, look good in a sari, but he understands the value of terrorists and Nazis in the education of our Canadian youth.
“Chrystia Freeland’s own grandfather”
You can’t blame people for the sins of their grandparents.
However, she eulogised him on Victims of Nazism and Communism Day.
The newspaper was given to him by the Nazis, confiscated from Jews who were sent to the camps.
Its all a distraction from the content of HRCs e-mails. The stupidity is deliberate.
I don’t think Craig, or the majority of posters on here get the Rowley interview… it was meant to assault your intelligence… it was not supposed to be believable to the public… it wasn’t intended to be. Rowley’s lying, and the interview was set up to make the public certain of that.
Rowley was dressed like a druggie, rough T-Shirt, grey sweat pant shorts, close up shots of face sheened with sweat, close up on druggie hands, stained nails, bruised and damaged skin, nervous shaking and fidgeting.
Some parts were even filmed with Rowley blurred out, just like they film those criminals during a TV documentary (who doesn’t want to be identified), all you could see was the vague blur of a person, whilst hearing Rowley’s voice droning on.
I mean he looked like a prisoner, and the contrast between him, and the imposing country house setting just made him look out of place. The cut away shots to the interviewer, with his smart clothes, his incredulous facial expressions, and the interviewers body language were all carefully edited to make the public not believe Rowley’s story…. to make them believe he is lying… and to catch him on video doing so… amazing set up!
Contrast that with Yulia’s specially prepared written statement, sunlight, natural woodland setting, lovely smart feminine clothes, impeccable make up and hair, and absolutely no questions, no cut away’s to an interviewer, no close up’s of body language… totally sanitized.
The government are preparing to hang Rowley out to dry, and they intend to make sure that when they make their move, and reveal how Rowley has lied. the public will howl for Rowley’s blood.
One thing is certain, should the secret services be at risk of exposure, whether here or overseas, they make every effort to ‘nip it in the bud’ and to ensure culpability stops with the lowest link in the chain.
Hang him out to dry for what ? What is he to be exposed for lying about exactly?
Well I’ve suggested elsewhere that this constantly repeated statement by the government needs closer attention:
“At all times public safety will remain the number one priority for all agencies involved.”
——
It’s arguable that Dawn Sturgess might be alive today, had it been made widely known that the Salisbury substance was a lethal strength opioid in liquid form, perhaps in a small bottle, and drug users should take appropriate care.
Instead what we have had, is a deliberate policy of obfuscating the substances name, putting those at most risk (substance users), in more danger than was necessary.
Personally speaking, I think the government may have acted recklessly, risking British citizens lives, particularly those for whom there was a higher probability that they may come into contact with the substance (substance abusers), often those most vulnerable, who should have been warned and protected, and all this may have been done for political reasons.
The outcome of that policy seems clear… further poisonings months later amongst substance abusers in the Salisbury area, resulting in the death of Dawn Sturgess.
The issue for me is whether the deliberate policy of obfuscating the substances name, chemical family, and other details like its lethal strength, its form (liquid, clear etc), and the containers in which it had been supplied etc., put those at most risk (substance abusers), in more danger than was necessary?
I believe that the further poisonings, and Dawns subsequent death proves there is now a case to be answered by the Government.
——
Now, after taking that into account. Turning Charlie into a figure of public hate for publicly lying and drug dealing, would also turn him into Dawn’s killer… and I think it’s just possible that the government can slip away from answering any questions about it’s decision to hide the substances name, which may have put substance abusers at risk.
It would be extremely hard to be provided with later evidence that Charlie is a liar, and thus also blaming him for Dawn’s death, whilst at the same time holding onto the idea that the government may have risked Dawn & Charlie’s life.
Cognitive dissonance kicks in, and is reconciled in the easiest way… and Charlie gets it I’m afraid!
All the while the ‘novichok in a bottle’ notion holds sway, then Charlie has an alibi (and HMG their bogeyman).
Max, I go along with this evaluation completely.
Maybe Irland could unify & JOIN the uk. Have a reconstitution & call these islands something else. Decentralised form… ?
Then we could get rid of the Tories forever. …Or maybe they could do something that may effect things in a good way.
You won’t believe what inspired that thought. You’ll think he’s just messing. But I kid you not. I just woke after a dream with this fiery Irish person getting me drunk & stuff. And when I woke the audiobook I went to sleep listening to was at this exact point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLr3TrpJRAt=5h14m
It seems another very good book by Engels BTW. I didn’t expect the depth & angles he comes from.
5 hours 14 minutes in. (don’t think the time mark worked on that, sorry but I won’t agree to googles terms so it’s awkward linking now).
Some parts of the narrative could make sense. The poison was in sealed perfume packaging to smuggle it into the country. So it came from abroad. The perfume bottle found by Charlie Rowley was a spare dose, carried by the perpetrator(s) in case the first attack was unsuccessful and discarded as soon as the Skripals started to show signs of the poisoning. But the job was hardly professional: the attack on the Skripals didn’t hit them effectively enough to kill and the dose in the perfume bottle was discarded carelessly if it was then found four months later by Mr Rowley. If the poison was indeed Russian, then the perpetrator could have been “a Russian”, rather than necessarily “The Russians”, part of some gangster / oligarch business Skripal was involved with rather than totally state sponsored. That could also explain the less than professional execution. The big hole in the story, of course, is what Skripal was involved with that got him targeted. Putin’s revenge on a retired spy quietly living in Salisbury is not an adequate motive.
“Some parts of the narrative could make sense. The poison was in sealed perfume packaging to smuggle it into the country. – So it came from abroad.”
Well that bit doesn’t for a start. Seems like an arbitrary assumption to me.
If a sealed poison disguised as still wrapped perfume was found and the authorities didn’t know for sure it was the only one around (and how would they know that?) there’d surely be a lot more warnings and publicity.
Indeed there should. But there isn’t. Which tells us the novichok-in-a-bottle story is false.
The only things that matter, are Rowley is a small time petty criminal, and convicted drug dealer. Dawn was a substance abuser. The Skripals were involved in illicit drugs too. The lethal synthetic opioid they have all been exposed to, has caught them all out. Like it has throughout the USA, and Canada.
The Russian state assassination plot was a fairytale.
This is a straight forward tale of drugs, addiction, money and greed.
“The Skripals were involved in illicit drugs too.”
Would you care to elaborate? I suspect you are on the right lines. If so then encounters in QEG go beyond those with ducks, and the hypothesis of a physical connection between Salisbury and Amesbury becomes plausible, as per your third sentence.
What’s more the ‘novichok’ and perfume nonsense invented by the government may reflect defence of intelligence involvement rather than mere opportunism.
Max-B and Doodlebug,
I too concur with both your summations.
I’m just speculating Doodlebug, I’ve written some long posts on here, and elsewhere (examples below). Some of which I’ve since added to, and altered other bits… so I won’t repeat them…
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-holes-in-the-official-skripal-story/comment-page-9/#comment-762104
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-holes-in-the-official-skripal-story/comment-page-10/#comment-762347
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-holes-in-the-official-skripal-story/comment-page-10/#comment-762429
and elsewhere…
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/07/the-magic-of-novichok-deadly-agent-found-in-perfume-bottle.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef022ad35bbde8200c
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/#comment-6324
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/#comment-6297
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/#comment-6309
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/#comment-6314
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-novichok-the-odourless-nerve-agent-that-stinks-to-high-heaven/#comment-6405
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-novichok-the-odourless-nerve-agent-that-stinks-to-high-heaven/#comment-6417
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-novichok-the-odourless-nerve-agent-that-stinks-to-high-heaven/#comment-6440
http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-novichok-the-odourless-nerve-agent-that-stinks-to-high-heaven/#comment-6449
http://www.theblogmire.com/an-open-letter-from-a-salisbury-resident-to-assistant-commissioner-neil-basu/#comment-6589
If the substance is an lethal opioid nerve agent (I think this is the best fit for the evidence, as well as the governments “Military Grade Nerve Agent”, ” A Novichok” official position – begun on 12th March), then considering the global Opioid Crisis, Sergei Skripal having some connection with the drug trade just makes the most sense to me.
According to a recent debate on Fentanyl in parliament (Hansard), It was claimed, that there are more US Citizens dying in the US every year from Opioids, than US Military deaths during the whole Vietnam war. I think roughly three times as many people die in the US from opioid overdoses every year, than die from shootings. Did I read somewhere that some UK police and emergency services will be issued with a nasal spray Opioid antagonist when it gets approval in the UK, just like the USA.
I think you may well be onto something re the drug connection but that begs the question why is there a narrative of Russian nerve agent attack being concocted?
Rocky – that’s the $64,000 question that only a select, unscrupulous few know the answer to.
But we’re all entitled to guess.
Why the nerve agent narrative? Well, originally, someone of relevance to the secret services was suddenly taken gravely ill in company with his daughter. The best placed string-pullers will have known immediately that it was not a nerve agent per se which took them down (as did Dr Davies, the specialist at Salisbury District Hospital). Likewise they probably knew immediately what did (especially if Sergei was being shadowed – anyone seen or heard anything of DS Bailey of late?).
Picking up on Max B’s earlier observation, should it be true that “the Skripals were involved in illicit drugs too”, it would suggest a likelier candidate than any gelatinous spray from an atomizer. However, I dare say there are people dying from drug overdoses on an almost daily basis, so one still has to wonder why the Skripals in particular should have been adopted by the authorities as victims of some other esoteric assault on their bodies.
I sincerely hope Max B can shed a little more light on his own claim, since I know nothing of Sergei Skripal’s recreational proclivities, but what if, like Dawn Sturgess, the pair had passed away? Wouldn’t there have been some awkward questions posed as to quite why this seemingly respectable old chap and his daughter should have become fatally intoxicated with narcotics? And might those questions not have led to others concerning the who, when and where of usage and supply? And the affordability? And who was paying for any ‘fixes’? And who sponsored the necessary local contacts?
Sergei and his daughter succumbed to a bad batch, but not of novichok. Never mind any nerve agent, the amount of Fentanyl required to produce a fatality is remarkably small. It is highly dangerous stuff, but used nevertheless to ‘cut’ cocaine.
Bad enough then if the ‘men in suits’ had knowledge of/involvement in the Salisbury supply chain. Worse yet if it was routed through Amesbury.
In connection with the above, this from the Independent (Wednesday 7 March, 2018)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sergei-skripal-poisoning-latest-russian-spy-daughter-substance-police-investigation-home-secretary-a8243746.html
“Police have cordoned off a new area linked to the case at a business park in Amesbury, around a 20 minute drive from where they were collapsed on a bench in Salisbury”
and
“Part of Solstice Park in Amesbury, which houses an ambulance station alongside restaurants and shops has been cordoned off ‘as a precautionary measure.'”
That Sergei Skripal is involved in the illicit drug trade is just my own speculation doodlebug…
I believe it’s a better fit for the more reliable evidence we have, as well as the official government line, and mainstream media message, as I’ve argued in posts on here, and on Moon of Alabama, and theblogmire.
It’s partly based on my own research about how the UK establishment tends to handle political scandals, especially spy scandals.
Thanks Max_B. I found it a bit spooky (no pun intended) that you should post such a claim, as I had imaginings yesterday of how Mi5/6 might go about keeping someone like Sergei Skripal on-side. Funding such luxuries as an occasional ‘fix’ was an idea that came to mind.
But that might entail familiarity with local suppliers, possibly even one or two from the Amesbury area. Curiously (as you will see from another of my comments today) the authorities cordoned off an area in Amesbury at the time of the Skripal incident. It is of course no more than speculation on my part, but it would pull all the threads together if accurate.
@Doodlebug I’ve been able to find several corroborations of the Independent’s article dated the 7th March mentioning Amesbury… it appears to be related to contamination related to the Ambulance Station at Unit 11 (SP4 7SZ)…
This is the first story…
http://www.andoverandvillages.co.uk/andover-news-in-andover-and-villages/andover-local-news-headlines/7582-hazardous-incident-on-solstice-park
Then a follow up story…
http://www.andoverandvillages.co.uk/andover-news-in-andover-and-villages/andover-local-news-headlines/7583-amesbury-incident-connected-to-russian-spy-investigation
The inference is that staff or vehicles may have become contaminated when attending the original incident in Salisbury. Although that’s not absolutely certain.
That news site also revealed the source of the Contaminated drugs story related to Charlie & Dawn as coming from an Official Press release on the Wiltshire Police web site. The page has been removed, but the original Press Release issued by Det. Sgt. Eirin Martin of Salisbury CID still exists as a hidden html file. Dawn & Charlie fell ill on Saturday 30th, but it appears that perhaps after 2 days treatment in hospital, Det. Sgt Eirin Martin, from Salisbury CID still believed this was a drugs related incident, and felt it necessary to take what he himself calls the “…unusual step…” of issuing a press release…
https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article/2902/Warning-over-contaminated-drugs-after-two-fall-ill-in-Amesbury
@Max_B
Many thanks once again.
Domestically, and Geopolitically, I just think this narrative ticked a lot of boxes for the UK establishment. Some brief thoughts…
1. Geopolitically, the Chemical Weapons narrative has been a key method of whipping up western support against the Syrian government. Russia supports the Syrian government. Russia and China’s permanent member veto at the UN have frustrated the UK & France’s aims in Syria. I think the UK and France have decided upon a new tack with less resistance, that is to politicise the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (CW). There are no permanent members with veto’s here. So pushing a CW association with Russia, which reinforce past Russian associations with CW assassinations is easy. Then you can use the momentum for action in Syria and elsewhere. It also keeps backing Trump into a corner, where he is forced to react against Russia.
2. Domestically, I think an ex-Russian spy living in Britain, occasionally employed by British Intelligence, and under MI5 scrutiny, who is operating right under their noses as a drug dealer is a real political headach. I just don’t think the government can afford a spy scandal at present, it’s go so many other issues on it’s plate. It’s just easier to kick back strongly with a spun narrative, that moves the story away from where the government is vulnerable, and pushing it on to Russia. It also serves to nullify some of positive propaganda Russia gets from the World Cup.
3. Powerful Synthetic Opioids are a political, social and security crisis in the west… if you can associate them with WMD’s/Nerve Agents… it’s no bad thing for whipping up global support for clamping down on them.
Just some ideas off the top of my head…
It think this is unlikely because they would have to have consumed it on the bench or somewhere very close. We can rule out injections, even hardcore junkies would not do it in public places when their home is nearby. Intranasal consumption in a pub toilet or another indoor space is possible, but still too inconvenient and risky to not do it at home instead. if they overdosed on opioids at home they certainly could not have walked that far.
It could be that more then one bottle of nerve toxin was brought into the country in innocent looking perfume bottles. The one in Amesbury was a spare. It could be that the police thought it would cause panic to show a photo of the bottle or box as it seems to be from a recognised brand whose sales would then drop to near zero.
However, it seems that the packet did not look damaged so it was not found outside. It does seem odd that Charlie does not remember where he found it; would not you first wonder why it was ‘here’, and being seen as a special present to someone important would again sharpen memory? My guess is that he has been instructed to to say where it was found, that might reveal too much.
Also, those Russians identified as suspects recently have suddenly disappeared from the news, either there is a security issue that blocks any mention or you keep people informed. I also think the truth lies in what we have not been told rather than what we have been told – a story that does not han together.
You’ve missing the point I think, you’re not supposed to believe Rowley’s televised story, because it’s a lie, cobbled together by a not very clever small time petty criminal and substance abuser.
Exactly. It further begs the question ‘why?’ Has there been a ‘cat and mouse’ game going on?
Why should Charlie fall passively into line with an incredible explanation he is simply handed by police(?)? Unless he has something to defend. Did the police find more than a scent bottle? Did Charlie suspect (or was he told) they might have something on him?
There is of course a supplementary ‘why?’, and that is why should the authorities proffer Charlie a way out by confounding reality and deliberately associating events at Amesbury with the Skripal fairy-tale?
Your own answer to the ‘illicit drugs’ question above, which I await with genuine interest, could have considerable bearing on this issue.
My point was to take at face value what is being published, and show that it does not hang together.
Was the original Skripal fiasco and the subsequent events in Amesbury, created to hide other news, which could potentially take the government down and see people put in prison?
The Grenfell Enquiry – remember that, released updates on 14th March 2018, 22nd June 2018 and 11th July 2018. The enquiry resumes today at 9.30.
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/
What happened to the 450 plus cases (there may be another 200 cases) of poisoned patients in Gosport War Memorial Hospital – the story broke around 20th June 2018, yet was out of the news almost immediately?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44547788
Both of the above stories are far more shocking than this manufactured story about military grade nerve agents, yet the MSM seem to have lost interest in them.
Andyoldlabour
“What happened to the 450 plus cases (there may be another 200 cases) of poisoned patients in Gosport War Memorial Hospital – the story broke around 20th June 2018, yet was out of the news almost immediately?”
Brian Jarman who was investigating was blocked by Common Purpose and cut of by the BBC.
When he mentioned them.Common Purpose is a EU funded organisation which has infiltated throughout the NHS.Police,Fire and the rest of the civil service.
Listen to this. http://www.atangledweb.org/?p=74830
@Dave Lawton – wow! Cut off immediately when he mentioned “Common Purpose”. I have looked into this a bit more, because I had never heard of it before. Some people have described CP as a kind of virus planted within public organisations.
https://www.cpexposed.com/about-common-purpose
An observation on a peripheral matter: many people carelessly assume that Charlie Rowley’s history with illicit drugs (and now, apparently, Methadone) makes him dishonest, untrustworthy, easy to bribe, even unpleasant to look at. Little sympathy for a man whose life has undoubtedly been difficult, whose health has been even more compromised by whatever he was poisoned by, whose partner has just died, and whose life has now been completely upturned. So easy to slag off a ‘druggie’. Compassion, anyone?
Sign me #1 to compassion list, Robyn. I regret Charlie’s life is not easy, and I’m sorry for his loss. I wish he were stronger man and I wish he had power to make better choices in his life ( regarding drugs and alcohol). I watched the interview, it is touching.
“I watched the interview, it is touching.”
I’ve watched it too. It is suspicious.
Doodlebug, he is talking about his feelings. There were no questions like “where you got it, Charlie?” or “are you free to speak, Charlie?”. I see nothing suspicious about hsis feelings,.
I respectfully suggest you read the complete transcript.
“Wind the clock back to the day that Dawn fell ill and you subsequently fell ill. What happened that day?”
“Tell me about the box…what was in it?”
“I imagine the police have asked you quite a lot about where you found it. Have they tracked your steps those few days?”
“Did you see her spray it?”
etcetera, etcetera.
Could you kindly give a link? I’ve followed the links from the topic text, there’s only video and no transcript…
As requested, here is a link to the complete transcript – https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-novichok-charlie-rowley-interview-12974102
Thank you!
Now I can say what is the suspicious part – he says he doesn’t remember where he had found the box. I don’t believe it.
If Charlie picked a thing that looked expensive to him, he would look for another similar things around. And the manner he tells he is not sure, it is wrong to say if he is not sure…
I think he was told not to tell the place.
Yet, possibly he had stolen it, perhaps out of a ladies bag.
I wonder if it will soon be claimed that he stole it from a “Russian assassin” that is being carefully chosen now.
Doodle, Does it cross your mind that Charlie may himself be intelligence services ?
Unrelated to this case , it made me think of a former MI6 agent Who “forgot” to pay for his perfume in an airport duty free . Exon ( hired then by crook Kevin halligen ) to go to Portugal on behalf of the McCann family where he and his partner ( some double barrelled name twat ) illegally collected fingerprints and DNA from the innocent locals and one disguised himself as a priest to hear confessions and the other pretended to be a homeless alcoholic ex-pat for weeks . Rings a bell ?
“Does it cross your mind that Charlie may himself be intelligence services?”
Not exactly. But it has crossed my mind that he could be known to them in his capacity as a supplier/purveyor of heroin, horses for courses and all that.
Related to Doodlebug’s comments it had crossed my mind previously that maybe Charlie had entered into some sort of deal with regard to the Skripal case – maybe intelligence services had to buy his silence over some fact or another – but then became too greedy and demanding so it was decided to issue him with ‘a warning’ which could be woven into the anti-Russia narrative. It struck me as possibly more than a coincidence that there was quite a lot of publicity shortly before the Amesbury incident with regard to how much ‘compensation’ was being paid to the Skripals and DS Bailey in return for buying their houses. Might Charlie have thought he was being short-changed and demanded more financially or ‘in kind’ for his silence?
Only a couple of days ago I said I wasn’t going to indulge in any more speculation on this case – how wrong I was!
“carelessly assume…dishonest, untrustworthy, easy to bribe” – you do realise you are talking about a man convicted at least once of dealing in heroin? And also convicted of stealing money from his brother? “whose partner has just died” – yes, and when she was on her deathbed, and he knew it, decides that it’s better to go shopping and to a hog roast than be with her. Yep, sounds a thoroughly decent chap to me.
I agree. There is much stigmatization.
I have to agree with SA with regard to Salisbury, novichok and Amesbury. Until some substantive development appears, that subject will be off limits to me.
Craig’s original post in March asked cui bono and listed various alternate explanations. We have amused ourselves since then by highlighting the farcical nature of the developing State narrative and very entertaining it has been. In reality all we can confidently do is continue to ask cui bono and speculate to no constructive ends. In recent days various contributors have initiated threads on perfume bottles and cellophane, for heaven’s sake. The topic has become a distraction. Whatever purpose the events of March 4th served for the State at the time, the main function of the Skripal saga now appears to be distracting the masses.
Probably wise, though I think the Skripal -> Miller -> Steele -> Anti-Russia/Anti Trump angle looks to be the most likely and should be kept in mind.
One thing that is stunning, is that even within the official narrative (a casualty 4 months after the initial story), the authorities –the local police, the MET, the security services– have been grossly negligent, and are despicably culpable in the death of Dawn Sturgess, and to whom no one in the MSM are pointing fingers or are raising the issue of this culpability.
Where is Dawn’s family, where are the lawyers on her behalf?
Indeed, and where are the lawyers acting for the police officers who were ordered to stand guard without protection of any kind outside the Skripal’s home only yards away from the door handle which by this time they ‘knew’ was smeared with ‘deadly weapons grade nerve agent’?
The Brit poshboy regime may have bought her family’s silence. That’s what they tried to do with Jean-Paul de Menezes’s family in Brazil. As I recall, a Brit poshboy regime rep flew over and offered them a few grand if they’d sign something promising to shut the f*ck up forever (he probably told them it was just routine and he was helping them), but solicitor Gareth Peirce also flew over and the regime didn’t quite get all the events going the way its c***s had hoped. Not even after they’d released a document (visa application?) to the media to paint the murdered man as a criminal. (My memory may be a bit vague, so I may have got some of that wrong.) Also I recall that the family basically told a poshboy rep that “we want full medical care for his mum, and we want it NOW, and we want it without any conditions” (good for them), and they got it.
Moral: stand up to the f***ers.
In Britain people tend to know their place more. They may be cynical in twos and threes when a poshie or a person in authority isn’t in the room, but usually they do whatever a poshie or a person in authority orders them. If they see a cat and then a poshie or a person in authority tells them it’s a dog, many of them will believe it was a dog.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with the above paragraph doesn’t know Britain very well.
Oh and who can we vote for if we don’t like this state of affairs? LOL
@ N_ July 26, 2018 at 14:15
It was definitely a dog! When do I get my cheque?.
N_ – I agree with all you say. Your recollection of the de Menezes case is much as I remember it. It was one of the most tragic cases of amateurish mishandling of an anti-terrorist operation that I am aware of. But the efforts to smear his name paid off to an extent. I recall a conversation with a relative of mine who not only could see no error in the police handling of the events but also declared “Well he was an illegal immigrant. If he hadn’t been here illegally he wouldn’t have ended up dead”. My relative also defended the police actions by stating that he (de Menezes) had to take some responsibility for the events because he chose to have a rucksack and this was suspicious behaviour – I think he must have read that in ‘The Sun’, his favoured news source. No, I wasn’t able to work this one out either but I’d given up trying at that point! I don’t have to guess hard to work out what his views on the Russians are. Unfortunately this is an indication of the intellect of many people.
Mostly agree with you, Borncynical, that, ‘… this is an indication of the intellect of many people.’ But it’s also an indication of the power of the MSM to make reasonably intelligent people believe as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
In the UK today it is verboten to publicly criticise the police. Look at some recent revelations;
In 2017 almost 1,000 trials collapsed when it was discovered the police had withheld evidence which proved the accused were innocent; this amounts to malicious prosecution and perverting the course of justice, where are the calls for inquiries or censure of the police from politicians.
It was recently revealed that the police were providing information about left-wingers, trade union members and people who had made health and safety at work complaints to a blacklist in order to prevent them from getting work, this is political persecution, where’s the outrage from politicians or the media?
It was recently revealed that the police have been using counter-terror laws against people protesting against fracking, this has included listening to phone calls and reading emails.
A very recent example was the case with Cliff Richard, where the police invited a BBC news crew to the raid on his property. Police behaviour included waving Cliff Richards underpants at his bedroom window for the news cameras, only the BBC have been criticised for this.
This is just a small example of how the police can do absolutely anything they like, no matter how illegal and not even get publicly criticised either by the media or politicians. It is no surprise to me that the Met were brought into the Salisbury affair, they are the most corrupt police force in the country by a long way.
Must have been a bottle of Dior’s Poison Eau de toilette.
Clearly he has been told the ‘novichock’ must have come from this perfume bottle which he told them Dawn had used. This was a convenient opportunity for those controlling this narrative to introduce the nerve agent. Unbeknown to them he now informs them that the bottle was still packaged when they ‘found it. DOH!
My thoughts exactly. Another such problem seems to be the dispenser that had to be assembled.
It could well have been hair colorant (“Dawn was talking about finishing dying her hair, because she’d been dying her hair down by the river the day before”). They smell of ammonia and are packaged with separate pump dispensers.
Whores usually have more than one customer. MSM journalists would be better characterised as “flunkeys”.
I wonder if the whole charade is not simply to establish “Poison”, “Novichok” and “Russia wot did it” in the public mind.
Then when someone else gets poisoned with the same stuff, President Trump say, it’s obviously the Russians again and not Killary, oh dear no. Or equivalent target.
The point being, this is just the scene setting, using some pawns…
Has anyone bought the wards in Salisbury Hospital yet to demolish it and build a new one ? Or is there really a ward of the hospital inside Porton Down ? How does Porton Down deal with “incidents” – does it have its own facilities
Anyone care to volunteer an interpretation of this earlier commentary, which suggests that Dawn and Charlie attended the hog roast together on Saturday, both being taken ill afterwards? Charlie however accompanied Dawn to the Pharmacy (before she was taken away in an ambulance obviously) before succumbing himself. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/uk-antiterror-forces-join-salisbury-unknown-substance-probe/news-story/90fab3e6392bea3e05b0b8cc34a5909a (July 5, 2018)
“But creating some concern in Amesbury was that one of the last places the couple had visited before falling ill was a hog roast at the Amesbury church, where around 200 people were enjoying a family day on Saturday.
“A friend of Mr Rowley and Ms Sturgess said Mr Rowley had called an ambulance for Ms Sturgess after she fell ill later on Saturday, then accompanied her to get some medication from the chemist. Sam Hobson, 29, said soon after, Mr Rowley began dribbling and rocking backward and forwards. He denied Mr Rowley was high on drugs, insisting he was stone cold sober but “in another world’’.”
(note the non-denial denial a propos being high on drugs – ‘stone cold sober’ – a phrase typically and conventionally associated with alcohol consumption)