The mainstream media are making almost no effort today to fit Charlie Rowley’s account of his poisoning into the already ludicrous conspiracy theory being peddled by the government and intelligence agencies.
ITV News gamely inserted the phrase “poisoned by a Russian nerve agent” into their exclusive interview with Charlie Rowley, an interview in which they managed to ask no penetrating questions whatsoever, and of which they only broadcast heavily edited parts. Their own website contains this comment by their journalist Rupert Evelyn:
He said it was unopened, the box it was in was sealed, and that they had to use a knife in order to cut through it.
“That raises the question: if it wasn’t used, is this the only Novichok that exists in this city? And was it the same Novichok used to attack Sergei and Yulia Skripal?
But the information about opening the packet with a knife is not in the linked interview. What Rowley does say in the interview is that the box was still sealed in its cellophane. Presumably it was the cellophane he slit open with a knife.
So how can this fit in to the official government account? Presumably the claim is that Russian agents secretly visited the Skripal house, sprayed novichok on the door handle from this perfume bottle, and then, at an unknown location, disassembled the nozzle from the bottle (Mr Rowley said he had to insert it), then repackaged and re-cellophaned the bottle prior to simply leaving it to be discovered somewhere – presumably somewhere indoors as it still looked new – by Mr Rowley four months later. However it had not been found by anyone else in the interim four months of police, military and security service search.
Frankly, the case for this being the bottle allegedly used to coat the Skripals’ door handle looks wildly improbable. But then the entire government story already looked wildly improbable anyway – to the extent that I literally do not know a single person, even among my more right wing family and friends, who believes it. The reaction of the media, who had shamelessly been promoting the entirely evidence free “the Russians did it” narrative, to Mr Rowley’s extremely awkward piece of news has been to shove it as far as possible down the news agenda and make no real effort to reconcile it.
By his own account, Mr Rowley is not a reliable witness, his memory affected by the “Novichok”. It is not unreasonable to conjecture there may also be other reasons why he is vague about where and how he came into possession of this package of perfume.
The perfume bottle is now in the hands of the Police. Is it not rather strange that they have not published photos of it, to see if it jogs the memory of a member of the public who saw it somewhere in the last four months, or saw somebody with it? The “perpetrators” know what it looks like and already know the police have it, so that would not give away any dangerous information. You might believe the lockdown of the story and control of the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime, which we should not forget is now murder.
Wilts Police are advising it is “safe to buy perfume from reputable sources”.
So we can take it it isn’t safe to buy it on the street.
Surely this promotes the Mad Porton Down Scientist narrative.
Would it not be a good idea to give a description of the perfume box?
Are more deaths a price worth paying for brand image.
I think you’ll find the police are just covering their backs. They are still trying to maintain the narrative that Charlie found ‘the bottle’ lying around somewhere but really they know this is absolute nonsense, as is the whole ‘bottle randomly found by unlucky Charlie’ tale . As this means they are not in a position to name a brand or description of the supposed ‘bottle’, they are avoiding being put on the spot about this because if they were to suggest a brand name in relation to this fabrication they would be taken to court by the manufacturers. So don’t worry.. I can guarantee there are no ‘poison’ perfume bottles out there and never were. It’s not clear to me whether the police have been stringing Charlie along or if it’s the other way round. Possibly, depending on the extremely mysterious circumstances, the scenario has a mutual benefit for both parties. As I see things the PTB are just digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.
“Possibly, depending on the extremely mysterious circumstances, the scenario has a mutual benefit for both parties.”
I rather think it does.
Repeating a comment I posted yesterday…
Interviewer for ITN: “Is it a case of…it’s unlikely anyone will end up in court?”
Charlie Rowley: “I’d like to think so. But I don’t know.”
To paraphrase Charlie – “I’d like to think no-one will end up in court”. Including himself no doubt. Not the sort of answer one would expect from someone whose partner has recently been murdered. Still the perfume bottle story exonerates him doesn’t it? It also, and very conveniently, facilitates the official line vis-a-vis external assault by a third party with some toxic agent or other, ‘novichok’ being the PC label.
And here is how Ukraine can possibly be involved. Ex-solder fled to Finland from Ukraine and made a video-statement to President Trump.
“I’m ready to testify in US courts, to the FBI, NSA and CIA about chemical weapons use by the Kiev military,” Medinsky said, adding, that he was ready to make more detailed information available to representatives of the US intelligence community.”
https://sputniknews.com/military/201805201064624496-ukraine-soldierletter/
First appeared on May 20, this news was never published in western media and never investigated.
@ Tatyana July 26, 2018 at 19:06
Thanks, Tatyana. Typical Western authorities and their tame MSM response to real use of CW’s.
Here is my take on the Charlie Rowley interview:
I think he does remember how he came by the poison. He didn’t find it, it was given to him. Charlie was not expected to survive either and he is under duress pretending he doesn’t remember.
I think the people behind this didn’t understand that sarin is a very volatile liquid, whereas A-234 is a thick, oily liquid – hence it is quite possible for Rowley to get some on his hands and simply wash it off an only suffer a weaker delayed reaction.
I think he was also pressured to change his story about how it had a foul ammonia-like smell, to saying it was odorless. It appears possible that an odorant chemical warning agent was also added to the bottle, so the people handling it would have an indication if there was a dangerous leak — an OH&S measure, if you like. With luck, that odorant warning chemical won’t be found in the environmental traces, so if the OPCW and/or Porton Down identify it, they will be able to confirm this bottle was not the source of the environmental traces back in March.
I find the bit about the cellophane interesting. I will repeat my view: the Skripals were subjected to BZ not A-234. Once police had gained access to the house they were going to – in their hazmat gear- unwrap the bottle and set up the atomiser, leaving it sitting on Yulia Skripal’s bedroom table, with the cellophane wrapper crumpled up next to it. And possibly spraying a waft or two beneath the noses of the family pets. This would have made a lovely photo to distribute to the world’s media.
It all went pear-shaped when Nick ‘Butterfingers’ Bailey managed to get sick before the house had been entered, meaning the police rewrote the script to involve the deadly doorhandle. So then they hand a spare bottle of perfume-Novichok to be disposed off, which has presumably been done in such a way the police are confident they can now tie in an airtight Russia connection.
Charlie and Dawn = in on it / expendable patsies… i agree, no photo of perfume bottle on media to jog our memories..funny that!….maybe on crimewatch next year…. no chance! THE WHOLE LOT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!!
Haven’t read other comments yet, but my thoughts:
One report said originally 50-100 grams had been used. A huge amount. They later rowed back on this claim.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/04/chemical-weapons-watchdog-amends-claim-over-salisbury-novichok
If this bottle was sealed and full then that suggests its not the same bottle used on the skripals, which means another unfound bottle of deadly perfume may be at large. It makes absolutely no sense that the assassin would carefully re-shrink wrap it (after removing the plunger) and then dump it.
Why was the brand of perfume not described?
Charlie can’t remember where he found it. Nonsense. He looks frankly scared in the interview footage.
Charlie wanted his girlfriend to believe he’d bought her a brand new bottle of perfume yet he opened it. And spilled it on himself. And said it didn’t smell like perfume…but gave it to his girlfriend as a present anyway.
And then when she fell seriously ill, this girlfriend he cares so much about has been rushed to hospital, instead of being at her bedside wondering what the hell is wrong with her, he goes and gets methadone and then chills at a church fete.
Utter, utter bollocks.
” If this bottle was sealed and full then that suggests its not the same bottle used on the skripals, ”
No shit Sherlock!
Addicts need their methadone.
“Addicts need their methadone.”
No. Really?
Quite correct.
“He looks frankly scared in the interview footage.”
If I was an ordinary citizen and found myself on BBC news in an interview, I would look scared as well. Just saying…
“…instead of being at her bedside wondering what the hell is wrong with her, he goes and gets methadone and then chills at a church fete.”
If someone I knew was taken to hospital, then I might very well go and spend some time with other people for company and support. I would realise there is not much I could do, and that she is in good hands, and the hospital staff might very well have asked me to leave her to recover.
Yulia Skripal has made a new phone call to her sister-in-law Victoria, Russian media reports. I haven’t found any English-language coverage, the original is here: https://www.rbc.ru/society/26/07/2018/5b5a10c49a79475ac1dbb672
Important points:
1. Yulia got Internet access only recently, some time after her previous phone call.
2. Sergei will not talk on the phone to congratulate his mom on 90th birthday because he has a tracheostoma so his speech will be unintelligeble.
Thank you for the link, Igor.
After Yulia had read news, what media write of the case, she said “Now I understand, I’m sorry”. This phrase perhaps re her previous call, where she blamed Victoria of making the story public.
It makes me think, Yulia didn’t know anything about political aspect of the story.
Thanks, Igor.
Here, warts and all, is Google’s Ennlish Translation, warts and all:
After talking with her grandmother Julia told Victoria that she had access to the Internet and she read everything that the media wrote about her poisoning. Also, according to Victoria Skripal, Julia said: “I understood everything. Sorry”.
Later, Victoria Skripal, in a conversation with RBC, answered the question about the whereabouts of a cousin. “She’s definitely not in Cyprus, as rumors are circulating. She called from the British number. Well, judge for yourself: there are a lot of Russians on the island, including visitors to Muscovites who watch TV. They would have recognized her immediately, “said Victoria.
In early March, in the British city of Salisbury, a former GRU employee, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Julia were unconscious on the street. They were hospitalized in critical condition. Later, the British authorities announced that they had been poisoned with the combat nerve agent “Novice”, which was being developed in Russia. Responsibility for what happened London laid on Moscow. Russia has repeatedly refuted all charges.
Currently, Sergei and Julia Skripal have already been discharged from the hospital. After discharge Julia Skripal said that she refused Russian diplomats’ help, and her sister Victoria asked to stop trying to visit her.
Sorry about lost fragment in the pasted post above. Here is Google ‘s English translation;
‘Sister Yulia Skripal told about her call to relatives in Russia
According to Victoria Skripal, her cousin called to congratulate her grandmother on her birthday. She noted that her father can not talk because he has a tracheostomy
A cousin of the poisoned combat nerve agent “Novice” Julia Skripal Victoria on the air of the program “Let them talk” said that Julia called her relatives in Russia to congratulate her grandmother on her 90th birthday.
Julia called her mobile phone and, before delivering the phone, she asked me to tell her what my grandmother knew about what had happened. According to Victoria, they had a quiet conversation, not in high-pitched tones, and Julia wanted to know beforehand that she could tell her grandmother about poisoning.
“She knows that you live in Moscow and that everything is fine with you. You can say that you flew to your father, dad in the hospital and just poisoned yourself in the restaurant, so you do not get in touch, “Victoria answered her sister’s question.
Julia noted that her father Sergei Skripal can not call, because he has a tracheostomy, because of which it is difficult for him to talk. “He’s very hoarse, and since she [the grandmother] does not hear well, she will not understand who is calling, because there will be rattles, and he talks very quietly,” Victoria told her sister’s words.
After talking with her grandmother Julia told Victoria that she had access to the Internet and she read everything that the media wrote about her poisoning. Also, according to Victoria Skripal, Julia said: “I understood everything. Sorry”.
Later, Victoria Skripal, in a conversation with RBC, answered the question about the whereabouts of a cousin. “She’s definitely not in Cyprus, as rumors are circulating. She called from the British number. Well, judge for yourself: there are a lot of Russians on the island, including visitors to Muscovites who watch TV. They would have recognized her immediately, “said Victoria.
In early March, in the British city of Salisbury, a former GRU employee, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Julia were unconscious on the street. They were hospitalized in critical condition. Later, the British authorities announced that they had been poisoned with the combat nerve agent “Novice”, which was being developed in Russia. Responsibility for what happened London laid on Moscow. Russia has repeatedly refuted all charges.
Currently, Sergei and Julia Skripal have already been discharged from the hospital. After discharge Julia Skripal said that she refused Russian diplomats’ help, and her sister Victoria asked to stop trying to visit her.’
“”He also mentioned that he vaguely recollects there being an *odd ammonia-type smell* from the perfume.”
“Unfortunately Dawn didn’t. I spilled it. My hands were covered in the stuff. It was an oily substance with *very little odour*. It made me think…I didn’t think at the time.”
“and I can pretty much guarantee that the contents in the bottle was perfume and it was nothing to worry about and they run tests on it and I was in complete shock when they told me it was Novichok”
“It’s hard for me to comprehend. *It’s hard for me to say more*.”
… It may have been on the side of a path. It would be wrong of me to say I found it in a place and not be sure. …(Amesbury,Salisbury)… it could have been anywwhere? yes, exactly….
…I’m pretty sure. No. I’m 100% sure it wasn’t in the park…
About Charlie cooperating with services
Too risky.
You’ve got 4 month to find a person who picks up things in the street. You see his girlfriend and decide it be perfume. Sealed to look all new and prevent from smelling right away in the street and throwing to a bin (because it doesn’t smell perfume). You drop an item on the pavement and wait.
Thanks God they didn’t choose a childrens toy.
And yet it must be freshly made Novichok. Accoding to Leonid Rink, liquid Novichok degrades fast and loses its power.
Charlie and Dawn may know ‘looks expensive’ and know brandnames, but possibly due to their lifestyle, they didn’t find it suspicious about separate atomiser. Awerage woman can tell from pakage and bottle and quality of the box and engravings and letters – many tiny details tell you if a thing is a genuine brand or a fishy looking somethng.
You’re brilliant, wish you were presenting News at 10!
‘The plot thins: How gel became a liquid and the whole Novichok affair began to smell to high heaven’:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/434120-uk-skripal-case-novichok/
”Novichok’ survivor Charlie Rowley is in a “safe house” but has been denied access to television and newspapers, according to his brother. The ever-stranger case of the Salisbury-Amesbury poisonings gets curiouser and curiouser.
Whoever said ‘Novichok’ was a “military-grade lethal nerve agent” doesn’t know their tables.
For a program which Boris Johnson told us had been 10 years in the making, had cost (presumably) millions of dollars to develop (and “train” agents to put poison on a doorknob), a 20-percent success rate must have been a bitter disappointment.
Four out of five of those affected by ‘Novichok’ – Sergei and Yulia Skripal, Detective Sergeant Bailey, and Charlie Rowley – have survived the contact, with only poor Dawn Sturgess, a homeless alcoholic, succumbing to its “deadly” effects.
A polythene bag would have been a rather more effective method of assassination.
Moreover, so little of their “training” had the assassins absorbed that they apparently “discarded” this valuable deadly nerve agent in a perfume bottle in a park, coincidentally close to the bench on which the Skripals had been found slumped four months previous. The bottle miraculously evaded the dragnet of “hundreds of anti-terror police” working on the case. Thus discarded, the perfume bottle carelessly provided evidence which could well lead to the indictment of the criminals involved. Doubtless such carelessness was not in the Russian “training manual” that Mr Johnson said was in the possession of British intelligence.
No information has emerged as to when or where Mr Rowley and/or the late Ms Sturgess happened upon this perfume bottle, or why in the middle of the swirl of the Salisbury events they picked it up, took it home, but either waited until the fateful day to spray it or alternatively the bottle had lain unattended for weeks – even months – despite the fine-tooth-comb search of the park by the authorities.
Some things are now clearer though. The settled narrative has been for months that the initial ‘Novichok’ attack on the Skripals had been via a “gel” on their front doorknob (in accordance with the manual and the 10-year training program). Not many believe this any longer, although unfortunately the taxpayer is committed to a way-above-market-price compulsory purchase of the house.
Apart from anything else, it is difficult to envisage a gel being dispensed via a spray from a perfume bottle…..’
“Who do you think you’re kidding Mrs. May and Co., if you think we believe your lies?
We are the boys who will expose your little game, we are the boys who will make you think again;
Who do you think you’re kidding Mrs. May, if you think old Englanders are fools!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnRIejYv9mo
Old Etonians and Bullingdon Club members might well go along with your ‘Fairy Tales’, and an astonishing number of Sheeple who have lost their shepherd and rely on you, your cronies and the MSM, but we Truthers and fellow travellers can see through your dirty tricks and shenanigans.
And We are Many, and increasing.
And ‘We’ don’t believe a word you say.
While I’m at it, I might as well add this little gem: ‘White Helmets are terrorists, can choose surrender or death – Assad’:
https://www.rt.com/news/434368-white-helmets-surrender-death-assad/
A certain ME country saves the WH Terrorists, at the behest of the US, and other coalition cronies.
With their continual wailing about terrorists, it really does show their true colours as to their definition of terrorists – claearly, ‘terrorists’ are not ‘terrorists’ when they are attacking a designated foe.
Yeah. This is more of a grab headlines hit than an effective one.
The silence of the whores? I’m afraid you are showing your age with this one, Craig.
It would be extremely unusual (virtually negligible) for the police, expecially in somewhere like Amesbury or Salisbury, for addicts not to be known to the police.
And the police often turn these people into informers, in order for the police to get info, and the informers don’t get their collar felt (or not as often and as hard as they would otherwise).
So I believe both Rowley and Dawn would have been at least ‘Known’ to the police, and quite likely at least one of them could well have been an informer.
Either which way, unless Rowley doesn’t ‘play ball’ with the Old Bill )if he wasn’t already) he would have to pull up stakes and move far away, because he would be a marked man from then on. And where ever he went, the local police would be informed.
So he won’t have much choice, except to ‘follow instructions’.
‘The Gray Lady Thinks Twice About Assange’s Prosecution’:
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/25/the-gray-lady-thinks-twice-about-assanges-prosecution/
Potential good news for Julian Assange – from the New York Times lawyer, and Ray McGovern.
I do not think usa authorities are going to swayed with this…they have to prove their potency that noone is safe from the spanish inquisition……
Murder case as well as kidnapping (Novichok1.0). But, by the wildest stretch of imagination, if someone will consider that both cases are illegal drug overdose, than may be there is a plausible explanation for strange “poisonings”.
“if someone will consider that both cases are illegal drug overdose….”
They already have. It helps to read all the comments – even those in response to others.
My thought on Novichok 1.0 (circa April 5 2018)
This is brilliant, just brilliant. According to the new official version of event, Skripals got poisoned by extremely toxic agent applied to the door. Finally we know the source. Did they both touch the door when they were leaving? May be. Then they drove the car (should be contaminated) to the flower shop. They purchased two beautiful bouquets of flowers – red from husband, white from daughter, passed contaminated bills to the flower lady (must be dead by now). Then drove to the cemetery, paid respect to diseased wife and son, left flowers (contaminated) and drove to the mall. They went to the Bishops Mall bar to have drinks and chit chat. Whoever served them received contaminated bills (must be dead by now). Then they went to the Zizzi Pizza to have a quick meal, in the process passing under at least three High Resolution Street Cameras. They ordered the meal, finished it, paid the waiter (must be dead by now, along with the dishwasher) and went to the park leading to the parking lot. On the way they sat on the bench to enjoy the fresh air and weather and then they got “gravely ill”. This is an official explanation of events. BRILLIANT.
More than 4 hours from the “fact of poisoning” Scripals were minding their own business and did not know that they are poisoned by the nerve agent that kills in the matter of minutes.
The first responders (unprotected) recognized the threat as the opioid Fentanyl overdose and they administered the antidote Naloxone (Narcan), which saved Skripal’s lives (Reported by Salisbury Journal). The team of Wilshire police was called to the scene to investigate incident. As a normal protocol, one of the police officers, Nick Bailey, was dispatched to the residence of Skripal to investigate drug abuse and where police officer was “contaminated” by the same door!!! and became “gravely ill” Back to the door again!
Brilliant, just brilliant.
DailyMail does report on “Skripal in London”, “but too ill to phone home”. Weird, almost believable news. Makes a change!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5997085/Poisoned-spy-Skripal-requires-medical-assistance-breathing.html
This piece is apparently based on the Russian publication (programme) linked above. Can anyone comment on the plausibility of the breathing tube claim? Brief online research shows no long-term indications that can possibly result from poisoning. Even if he can’t speak, he can surely listen, and Yulia can be beside him to read out his written or typed responses. I have a feeling he is not cooperating to the point that any contact with the outside world is a threat to the official narrative.
…and, don’t forget, we have no evidence whatsoever that he is even still alive, whatever Yulia may have told Viktoria.
Until we have ‘proof of life’ we remain at liberty to presume the worst.
He might of course be dead, but what would be the point of lying about it? To deny Russia access to his body for forensic examination? They could have cremated him on the grounds of being poisoned and dangerous. I’m inclined to think that he is alive and well, but is being used as a hostage to control Yulia and ensure her silence. If he was seen fit and talking, a sudden death or deterioration of his health would look suspicious to the public.
Igor, I think on the balance of probabilities you are probably right. However, I just thought I would throw the possibility out there in the absence of any evidence as yet to the contrary (as Doodlebug says). Irrespective of his fate, it’s remarkably strange that we had a written statement from the mysterious DS Bailey, a read (but not particularly convincing) statement from Yulia, interviews with Rowley and his brother, but not a peep from Sergei Skripal – ok, Yulia tells cousin Viktoria that he is having trouble with verbal communications because of a tracheotomy but this wouldn’t stop him issuing a written statement read on his behalf by Yulia: I can’t see how that would compromise the investigation or be deemed a risk to Sergei’s life, so why not?
Sergei’s silence is indeed puzzling. But we should remember that he is the most mature, experienced and cunning person involved. Arguably the one least likely to bow down to pressure. He may have decided that not participating in this fabrication puts him in a stronger bargaining position, at least for the time being.
Igor, in response to your comment at 22.42, my view is that, whatever the rights and wrongs of Sergei’s behaviour in the recent past, if he is making trouble for the PTB then all power to him! That’s exactly what is needed to have any hope of drawing out into the public domain the unscrupulous behaviour of people we are all supposed to trust.
And consudering Charlie would have received a far higher dose and he’s walking around and pottering to the off licence with zero scars on his neck …
Interesting point raised. To add to your points. My understanding, it was reported by bbc the brother of Mr Rowley when they had found this, yet to be accounted perfume bottle “she sprayed the perfume on his wrists” when mr Rowley “held this bottle, it disintegrates”. ?
I have been watching this story closely, it doesn’t add up its inconsistent misleading and reported by journalist making judgement without the facts first presented, its got half truths with useful idiots playing out on media channels (so to hit their media figures “KPIs” targets) its all Very odd and its conflicting information.
My thoughts on this matter its rabbit hole journalism. Maybe a deliberate act to confuse and frustrate that benefit people in some way.
“Did the Skripal attackers use Charlie Rowley’s flat as a safe house?”
Why did the telegraph modify this article to remove all mention of this? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/15/novichok-poisoning-did-skripal-attackers-use-charlie-rowleys/
Original article, before it went down the memory hole:
https://skwawkbox.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Novichok-poisoning-Did-Skripal-attackers-use-Charlie-Rowleys-flat-as-a-safe-house.pdf
“Did the Skripal attackers use Charlie Rowley’s flat as a safe house?”
‘Why did the telegraph modify this article to remove all mention of this?’
Possibly because it suggests Charlie Rowley’s flat as the origin of the problem(s).
“Did the Skripal attackers use Charlie Rowley’s flat as a safe house?”
Why did the telegraph modify this article to remove all mention of this?
Because it was bollox.
Rowley’s flat is a new build and never had any other tenants
The fact that his house was a new build and had no tennants actually lends more weight to the theory that it was a safe house – a whole housing estate with no prying eyes.
Just the usual procession of builders, painters and decorators etc coming in and out all the time finishing off. You people just won’t let go of anything no matter how absurd. If they’d wanted a safe house to operate from there must be plenty of holiday lets in the area they could rent for a week or so without attracting attention and without the inconvenience of making an illegal entry into a property which is incomplete.
“Rowley’s flat is a new build and never had any other tenants”
Or visitors, or sleep-overs. Of course those of even a vaguely criminal persuasion are going to sign a tenancy agreement in advance of a temporary stay.
The article may well have been bollox, but that would not occasion its removal. If the Telegraph shared your reasoning they’d sacrifice much of their usual coverage.
“The article may well have been bollox, but that would not occasion its removal.”
This is the point I am interested in. They took a theory from one Philip Ingram MBE, and the story was published as being by Martin Evans. Philip just posited a theory. Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant, opinion pieces are the staple of modern news. It is not as though he published anything libellous. Yet not only did the content change drastically without any kind of retraction, even the author of the piece changed from “Martin Evans” to “Telegraph Reporters”. The time the article claims to have been published did not change but the content and the author did. That is forgery.
These kind of manipulations are what drive the deep distrust of mainstream media. If you’re going to be in the least bit honest you would update the time of the article and explain that it was edited in light of new information. If revisionism of published articles is considered acceptable then the MSM has thoroughly lost any high ground it ever claimed to have.
It is a weird, implausible theory to begin with, and that is enough reasons to drop it. Why it appeared in the first place is a more interesting question. Perhaps it was intended as a safeguard in case Charlie doesn’t cooperate, to avoid the bottle being seen as a plant.
No it is not reason enough to use forgery, which is what changing already published articles is if you don’t change the time the changes were made, acknowledge the authorship change and that post publishing editing has taken place. That is utterly dishonest. Imagine if there were no printed copies of Newton’s work, or Charles Darwin’s and people simply digitally edited the past to fit some agenda. It should be a crime.
I cannot think of a better description of “fake news” than publishing one article, then changing it to another as though it were the original article. They get double caught out because the URL contains most of the sentence of the original headline.
So what is it?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-novichok-story-is-indeed-another-iraqi-wmd-scam/
or your current “theory”?
If I may echo the comment yesterday by michael lacey (July 26, 2018 at 05:47)
“‘the narrative is more important to the authorities than solving the crime’
“Exactly!”
This is borne out by Charlie Rowley’s interview with ITN. Were it not for whispers of ‘novichok’ and reference to perfume bottles, Charlie would most probably have been interviewed under caution by the Police, not the broadcast media. The situation as we know it supports the above comments unequivocally and is worth looking at in some detail.
Interviewer: “When the Paramedics arrived, did they have any idea of what they were treating?”
CR: “I thought it might have been something to do with….she had complained of a headache and she asked for paracetamol and I thought maybe she had taken her own medication that she had at the time. I thought at the time maybe it was a reaction to the medication she had taken.”
The genuine answer to the question is submerged in the response Charlie cuts off. Later on there is another significant exchange:
“You went off and picked up your stuff. Came back to the flat. What point did you pick up the bottle?”
The interviewer is deliberately attempting to synchronize Rowley’s contamination with his return home, i.e. nearer his own time of collapse, but Charlie misses his cue.
CR: “I hadn’t. The time I touched the bottle was the same time Dawn had touched the bottle. I had it on my hands and was fortunate enough to wash my hands.
“Unfortunately Dawn didn’t. I spilled it. My hands were covered in the stuff. It was an oily substance with very little odour. It made me think…I didn’t think at the time.
“I just washed it off very quickly. I didn’t put two and two together at all. When the police came round…when I came round weeks after, and the police mentioned a bottle they’d found in the flat, they run tests on it and I can pretty much guarantee that the contents in the bottle was perfume and it was nothing to worry about and they run tests on it and I was in complete shock when they told me it was Novichok.”
The crucial statement here is this one: “I can pretty much guarantee that the contents in the bottle was perfume and it was nothing to worry about .”
This informs us that prior to any mention of nerve agents by the police, Charlie’s perception of Dawn’s toiletries was exactly that. In his mind they were inert. Which means, as suggested by his earlier truncated response, he attributed Dawn’s affliction to something else entirely, and that ‘something else’, whatever it was, must have been either self-administered or administered by Charlie, since they were the only two people in the flat at the time.
Charlie’s involvement in Dawn’s death was therefore possibly deliberate, inasmuch as he may well have been responsible for whatever it was she applied or ingested. However, for the police now to recognize this conclusion would be to totally demolish the novichok fairy story. Nevertheless it is this story which best suits the authorities, whilst at the same time giving Charlie a ‘get out of jail free’ card. Charlie simply ‘tells it like it is’ as far as the bottle of liquid is concerned (more than likely a hair colorant, as Dawn was in the process of dying her hair). The novichok angle is down to the police entirely.
Which brings us nicely back to Michael Lacey’s earlier observation.
Insightful observations. If it really was “oily odorless substance”, hard to see how Charlie would be sure it was perfume. Can anyone comment if the lower dosage can explain 6-hour difference in symptoms?
The only logical explanation in this ridiculous affair is that the whole perfume story is a complete red herring. The perfume was exactly that, a cheap fake perfume which Charlie gave to Dawn as a present. They were poisoned in a completely different way, the Police know this but like everything else, need to keep it under wraps. Nothing in the perfume story stands up to any scrutiny, the truth must lie elsewhere.
See above.
“According to Viktoria, Yulia told her this week: ‘I finally got internet, and I read everything. I understood everything. Forgive me.'”……hmmm…hope so better send her a link to this website if possible.
There is something in Charlie Rowley’s interview that I don’t think any one has picked up on. He sniffed it.
From the ITV interview:
“It had an oily substance and it smelled it and it didn’t smell of perfume.”
We have been told that the 3 ways victims can be contaminated and show symptoms within minutes are 1. Ingestion 2. direct skin contact, and 3….inhalation!
From the BBC’s site:
“Novichoks were designed to be more toxic than other chemical weapons, so some versions would begin to take effect rapidly – in the order of 30 seconds to two minutes. The main route of exposure is likely to be through inhalation or ingestion, though they could also be absorbed through the skin.”
Now, we know it was stong enough for Dawn to start showing symptoms within minutes after skin contact, so if Charlie sniffed exactly the same source, why did it take 8 hours for him to show symptoms?
Well sniffed out that man!
Charlie is said to have got off lightly because he washed his hands of the unpleasant smelling oily substance immediately – before gifting it to Dawn (‘Try this luv. Oil d’Ammonia’).
But you’re right. Just one more nail in the coffin for the ‘perfume bottle’ saga. In terms of credibility at least it puts the authorities between a rock and a hard place. A sealed (and branded) bottle containing a contaminated substance but no immediate product recall = No Novichok. No Novichok = some other toxin involved. No third party at Amesbury = Charlie hoping no one will be brought to court.
The most baffling thing about the whole Skripal affair is how, day after day, month after month, commenters here struggle with the basic concept of high and low dosage.
Does one aspirin have the same effect as four? Does one pint give the same level of intoxication as six? Now take the big leap to nerve poisons:
Does one pinprick of botox invariably kill the cosmetic patient? No, the wrinkles come back and they make another appointment for another round of treatment. Yet botulinum toxin is FAR more toxic than any novichok or organophosphate. Read about it at wiki.
Are people here truly unaware of how toxicity is measured? That would be LD50, the lethal dose by a specified route that kills 50% of the lab mice. So PD would start say a milligram, find it killed 100% of the mice. Then they would cut that to half a mg, find that still killed 100% of the mice. And so on, to say a fiftieth of mg, finding that didn’t kill any of the mice nor even cause transient symptoms. Somewhere in-between is the LD50.
People here seem to think as little as a single molecule of novichok is fatal. Not true, no measurable effects even on a housefly. Ditto femtogram, picogram, nanogram, even micrograms in people.
Beyond the LD50 lies efficiency of the route of exposure. Especially with skin, rate of uptake is hugely variable depending on which skin, whose skin. With lab mice, they are inbred to a huge degree for exactly this reason, to take out individual variability.
So move along, there is nothing to see here, until William of Ockham says otherwise: Yulia and Charlie had better initial health, and some mix of less exposure less effectively, so delayed onset and earlier recovery.
Now simultaneous sudden and severe onset in Yulia and Sergei, four hours after the door handle, there IS something to see there: incredulity. That’s been noted here and elsewhere a hundred times over but it bears repeating as a reliably established deduction in an overall informational quagmire.
Add to this that the onset for Skripals must have been so rapid and simultaneous that neither was able to call an ambulance for himself or the other one. Compare this to Charlie’s reported onset length.
Hope no one gets hurt in the collateral damage from Trump’s bombing of Iran’s nuclear sites.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-visit-boots-store-as-search-for-novichok-source-goes-on-nsstb60zm
“Police investigating the novichok poisoning will collect security camera footage today from a Boots chemist which was visited by one of the victims.
“Officers are likely to wear protective clothing as a precaution and said that the risk to the wider public was still low”
A case of ‘I’m alright Jack!’
One would be forgiven for thinking they might also have instructed the store management to clear their shelves of ‘brand X’. I guess they just don’t want to alarm people unnecessarily.
The medium is the message.
Novichok is the medium.
Could this be the ‘why’ ? http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Roscosmos_Research_Centers_Staff_Suspected_of_Leaking_Data_Abroad_999.html
Mary Paul had a most useful comment back on the first pages of this forum. Going to that link gets interesting when looking at the suggestions under “customers also shopped for…”, namely small empty glass perfume bottles that are not only refillable by included funnel with your favorite liquid but come with a separate atomizer that screws on tightly.
Classic Clear Glass Empty Refillable 78ml Perfume Bottle with Ivory Tassel Spray Atomizer. Filling Funnel & Gift Box Included
https://tinyurl.com/ybjznvgt
Now for airplane travel essentials or just a purse, you would want something smaller that didn’t leak its contents with cabin pressure changes. Better still, something designed with a simple valve allowing it to be safely pumped off a perfume bottle nozzle (that leads to its removable atomizer).
Sharplace Portable Mini Refillable Perfume Bottle Atomizer Empty Spray Great Gifts for Travel 30ML
https://tinyurl.com/yaa8tlen
It’s proven better over the centuries to stick with Ockham’s Razor: things are very often just as they seem, don’t make things more complicated unless they have to be. That village in Surrey is a mere 72 miles up the road from Salisbury but it could be on the moon.
I am comfortable sticking with that principle even after reading all the comments to this point, following all the links, and watching all the interviews with Charlie, Matthew and Sam. Going beyond, to extraordinary conspiracy theories, requires extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof falls on the proposer, there’s no burden of rebuttal on the rest of us.
The word “cellophane” has become genericized, often used informally to refer to a wide variety of plastic film products, even those not made of cellulose, such as plastic wrap. However in the UK,”cellophane” is a registered trademark, property of Futamura Chemical in Wigton.
We don’t know here what was meant, only that it wasn’t too hard for someone to take off and put back on, perhaps shrink-wrapping with a hair dryer. Forensics will be looking quite closely at the packaging, not just for DNA and fingerprints, but to see if it is the original.
Charlie’s account is fully consistent with the product links above. That was a good effort by ITV, driving Charlie around Salisbury to see if parks or skips triggered memories of where he found it (or didn’t). This bottle may be the sole motherlode as a pocket atomizer is easily filled from it, safely and repeatedly if need be.
Not sold in stores, that rules out shoplifting. Skips are emptied too often, the perp has presumably left town (though might have returned to stage a second event as the first grew stale). Thrift or charity stores do not discard salable items, new in the box. Would a perp have put it in a donation box — where it was certain to draw attention (and forensics) later or just toss it miles away driving out of town? Was the perfume bottle was meant to be found, the hard way, by random down-and-outers? We are left hanging for now with too many known knowns, unknown knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
Thanks, Tom.
It is always good to get the viewpoint of HM Government also represented in the comments here..
Charlie also said he could have practically guaranteed the content was perfume. Applying the same logic (things are very often just as they seem) – it was perfume. Hence why he didn’t mention it to the paramedics/police when Dawn was taken away.
Charlie suffered a sudden and severe onset 8 hours later (allegedly). Nick Bailey said he experienced symptoms, in less time, yet he was able to drive himself from his home to the hospital, something Charlie Rowley would have been unable to do going by Sam Hobson’s description of his state.
The perfume bottle only became of interest when the police stated they had found a container with Novichok, and the police asked Charlie about what turned out to be a perfume bottle. If the story was true, there would have been an immediate call to avoid the brand/make of perfume, a recall or impounding of the product, and examination of thousands of such perfume bottles. Instead, we weren’t even told the brand or shown a picture. They know it’s bullshit and that they didn’t have to hurt the perfume company’s profits.
All the victims are being incapacitated with something else, and any Novichok is being added to them later, or to samples taken from them while they keep them in induced comas.
Passer By, you appear to have by-passed my earlier comments above (e.g., July 27, 2018 at 11:54 and 14:51). Thanks for the paraphrase anyway.
“This bottle may be the sole motherlode….”
Which bottle – the one Charlie supposedly broke (prior to the interview) or the one police discovered in his flat and reported to him afterwards? He had every confidence in it apparently (“I can pretty much guarantee that the contents in the bottle was perfume and it was nothing to worry about”) suggesting he knew where the problem actually lay, i.e. not with any fumbling to assemble a perfume dispenser.
Co-opting an earlier comment of yours – “The most baffling thing about the whole Skripal affair is how, day after day, month after month, commenters here struggle with the basic concept of…..” lying, and how it can lead people on a wild goose chase.
“Not sold in stores, that rules out shoplifting.”
Various atomisers are offered on dozens of websites. Why would you think they are not in stores (some websites offer wholesale lots)? Where is the “simple valve”? How does Ockham say an atomiser would be suitable for smearing a gel on a door handle?
@ Tom Smythe July 27, 2018 at 16:14
According to Occam’s razor, if it appears to be a False Flag attack/hoax, then yep, it probably is (and we even have ducks in the tale, to give us a clue!).
I cannot take credit myself for originally voicing the observation that people who wish to sustain the promoted official narrative of an event – no matter how implausible, nonsensical and inconsistent – always accuse others who suspend their belief of concocting ‘outlandish conspiracy theories’. This is a prime example of such an instance. Tom, seeing that you allude to such non-believers as requiring “extraordinary evidence” to support our alternative theories, perhaps I might turn the question around and ask that you might care to enlighten us as to what official evidence you have seen to support the official credible (??) line on what happened in Salisbury or Amesbury. I won’t hold my breath.
“people who wish to sustain the promoted official narrative of an event – no matter how implausible, nonsensical and inconsistent – always accuse others who suspend their belief of concocting ‘outlandish conspiracy theories”
Which is what the Graun does in this puff piece masquerading as an interview with the MP for Salisbury.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/27/salisbury-mp-john-glen-theres-been-an-assassination-attempt-and-someone-has-died-this-is-not-a-game
Thanks for the link. Demonstrates the point perfectly with its paradoxical emphasis on those promoting the most ridiculous fabrications denouncing the rest of us as conspiracy theorists. Theresa May will be so proud of him! I didn’t read it all but there were a few quotes I gleaned which are farcical. When asked how he responds to constituents who challenge the official narrative with pertinent questions he states “Of course, you can’t completely answer without getting into speculation yourself and that’s a bit irresponsible…[all I can say is] The evidence leads us to this point; I can’t tell you any more.” Very convenient!
And when asked by constituents why he hasn’t sought more answers from the authorities he states “I’m not going to challenge anyone based on hearsay and armchair speculation”. So putting to one side the inconsistencies in the official narrative, according to Glen the erroneous information that most of us are able to challenge based on scientific facts regarding sources of Novichok, effectiveness of Novichok, application of Novichok, impact of Novichok is just the result of ‘hearsay and armchair speculation’ and not worthy of explanation. Glen is clearly another untrustworthy idiot to add to the ever lengthening list.
Tom, just to add another comment – whilst I consider your last sentence is by and large correct, I would challenge your view that there are any “known knowns”. As yet, I’m not aware of any, other than the fact that we appear to have one deceased person as a consequence of events, and the way things are going I am not even sure that we can guarantee that.
The “brand new perfume bottle of a well known brand that comes in a 3x3x0.5 box, requires assembly and delivers a spray” is fiction. It doesn’t exist. There are products that satisfy one or several of these requirements but not all of them at the same time.
Well known brands go to great lengths to protect their brand (consider the recent destruction of $37M worth of unsold goods by Burberry). Each perfume bottle is signature and is carefully designed to represent the brand and the specific product. No brand would sell their perfumes in off brand bottles or sell their signature bottles empty. Note that all those refillable bottles linked above are EMPTY.
There are indeed refillable purse spray options available from well known brands but they are always designed in a way that the whole empty canister is replaced rather than removing the atomizer and refilling the bottle. The user is NEVER put in a position to have to assemble the bottle before being able to use it for the first time while possibly spilling the contents “all over” their hands. https://tinyurl.com/y7leup6c – note the refill instructions (replace the empty canister).
Even the “refillable” bottles from known brands always come ready to use https://www.chanel.com/us/fragrance/p/105160/n5-parfum-purse-spray-refillable/ – the “refillable” part is the plastic outer container, the replacement is a SEALED canister that is inserted into the empty outer container.
The only way to buy a refillable brand name perfume bottle is to buy a FULL assembled refillable bottle. https://www.theperfumespot.com/angel-women-thierry-mugler-item-code-awang17rps.html
A refill would never have the atomizer packaged separately from the bottle. https://www.theperfumespot.com/angel-women-thierry-mugler-item-code-awang34rp.html
If a refill is sold together with the refillable container there is always a full assembled bottle ready to use in the package.
Absolutely the easiest way to check this out would be to go to a big expensive department store and ask the ladies at the perfume counter.
I might be wrong, of course, and would appreciate if commenters that believe in the veracity of CR description of the bottle post a link to an item that fits that description.
The perfume bottle description is the only part of these series that is easy to check. Any number of experts post conflicting information regarding the properties of “nerve agents” and people can move around and behave in all kinds of inexplicable ways.
This whole perfume bottle story is pure invention. There are no multiple extra containers (note that the officials never call them “perfume bottles”) hidden all over the place. It was quite a leap of logic when it was announced immediately that since this is not the container used on Skripals there are MUST be more hidden around somewhere. If an additional container is found it would be found because the story demands it.
In a curious plot twist “Novichok agents, dispersed as an ultra-fine powder rather than vapour…” . https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6875049/cctv-novichok-murder/
Slowly we are getting to know what kind of people our would be assassins are https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/39/ec/3f39ec8e4155bbda4b026f68eb4a685e–vintage-dressing-tables-table-vintage.jpg
Another interesting detail that is carefully not mentioned anymore is that the intercepted coded ELECTRONIC message supposedly sent by the team of assassins leaving the country had originated near DASMASCUS, SYRIA. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/942903/Sergei-Skripal-russian-spy-poisoning-russian-message-intercepted
I still think that well-made lies keep close to the facts.
About the bottle, if you take a genuine branded box and put a bottle + atomiser inside, then wrap it with cellofane (or srinking plastic, I could do it at home, any handmaker can do it, even buy a perfume bottle at Etsy). Then you can put it on Charlie’s way and avoid risk of another informed player.
Charlie said that Dawn recognized brandname, it was the moment he gave her the box. So, the part about the “perfume” is believable.
Woman journalist would ask if there was the brandname on the bottle too. And what was the cover on the bottles neck? Was it foiled or there was a cap?
That man was so uncurious about things, but very curious about feelings, political views and courts.
While it is possible that the boxed perfume was a sloppy disguise that could only fool a 3 year old with learning disabilities it seems highly improbable. The whole idea of a disguise is that the decoy is supposed to bear at least passing resemblance to the object it is supposed to be.
A woman journalist indeed would question this peculiar description and it is interesting that none did. The behavior of the media is the most inexplicable thing about this story.
We don’t know the level of sloppiness ))) may be they used genuine bottle, just disassembled it, filled with poison and somehow sealed the neck ( to prevent poison from spilling while in the box)
That is problem with people who are not experts, like Charlie and interviewer. Evry tiny detaile has its term word, experts would extract more info.
As in upper comments it was mentioned about cellofane and plastic. I’m sure it is the same for Charlie. Yet, no surprise at separate atomiser, which he names a mist-spray.
Dawn may relay upon brandname and cellofane, thus she didn’t pay attention to further details. May be she went out while Charlie attached the parts together.
We don’t know.
What is believed without questions from the interview – novichok found near Salisbury and it is deadly substance.
If it was a refillable atomiser how come Dawn “recognised the brand” when Charlie gave it to her?
@PasserBy
‘something Charlie Rowley would have been unable to do going by Sam Hobson’s description of his state’
because… he had been to the chemist
simples
The OPCW has a new Director-General. Spanish diplomat Fernando Arias has taken over from the truly awful Turkish Ahmet Uzumc.
I don’t really expect it will make much difference, the best we can hope is Arias can at least maintain a better facade of impartiality than Uzumc.
Since the revealing of the perfume bottle, should we be taken a harder look at Ahmet Uzumc’s rapidly retracted claim that the Skripal attackers had a bottle of Novichok around 100 mls? The OPCW rapidly clarified that they had no data supporting such a claim – but perhaps Uzumc had been talking to some well-informed British spooks who had clairvoyant knowledge of the perfume bottle?
And, as with Gary Aitkenhead of Porton Down, none of these people have any scientific background whatsoever. I find this absolutely amazing when you think they are ultimately responsible for the decision making processes at the scientific institutions they head. But they are no doubt good at taking orders and overseeing their implementation…and of course memorising official scripts (except when liquid volumes are mentioned!).
Sean, as you say, Uzumcu’s ‘mistake’ does take on a different perspective now.
Sean, you may already be familiar with the following info but, in case you’re not, you might like to ‘google’ Jose Bustani [first DG of OPCW] claims that his children’s lives were threatened by John Bolton because he [Bustani] was too independent. Makes for very interesting reading.
@ Borncynical July 27, 2018 at 20:45
Thanks for that info. Pity it didn’t come out immediately after the threat, it might conceivably have stopped the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
“WE KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS LIVE”: HOW JOHN BOLTON ONCE THREATENED AN INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL’:
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/john-bolton-trump-bush-bustani-kids-opcw/
‘….And, according to Bustani, Bolton didn’t mince words. “Cheney wants you out,” Bustani recalled Bolton saying, referring to the then-vice president of the United States. “We can’t accept your management style.”
Bolton continued, according to Bustani’s recollections: “You have 24 hours to leave the organization, and if you don’t comply with this decision by Washington, we have ways to retaliate against you.”
There was a pause.
“We know where your kids live. You have two sons in New York.”
Bustani told me he was taken aback but refused to back down. “My family is aware of the situation, and we are prepared to live with the consequences of my decision,” he replied………’
Paul, for more details of the relationship between Bustani/OPCW and the US – and indeed the US position as they see themselves in the New World order – I refer you to an article published in 2002 entitled ‘A Coup in the Hague – Mother Jones’ (sorry, I have tried to enter a link to the website but failed). I started to jot down significant points from the article but, to be honest, I found myself simply rewriting the whole article as all the assertions are so shocking. It was evident even at the time the article was written that the US had no interest in reaching a peaceful settlement with Iraq even though this might well have been the conclusion if Bustani had been allowed to continue unhindered.
I tend to think that the reporting on this is primarily laziness. I have seen many reports on TV news where the anchor will restate what the roving reporter has just said but using slightly different words which actually change the meaning. They do this in reports of minor as well as major events, their laziness is, at least consistent.
They’d rather take what’s handed to them that work to discover what’s really happened – and that’s why you can’t trust ANYTHING they say. And I do mean ANYTHING. Take, for example, the weather news…
The BBC gets all their weather info from The Met Office but the way the BBC reports it is slightly different from the Met Forecast (ie wrong) So, if you can’t even trust them to regurgitate something THIS straightforward what chance have we…
The Met Office hasn’t supplied the BBC with weather data since 2015 when they lost the contract to MeteoGroup.
2015 that is about the time that the excellent weather reports of YR.No also went down the pipe
Actually the BBC now (since Feb of this year) takes its weather forecast data from MeteoGroup rather than the Met Office. And MeteoGroup use slightly different data sources than the Met Office, so the forecasts will not be identical. The BBC do still get their severe weather warnings from the Met office though. But day to day forecasts are Meteogroup.
I have stopped commenting on the Skripals/Stugess case due to the levels of disinformation being circulated by the authorities and Russian trolls, making it impossible to know what is true and what is spin and fake news.
However someone did ask here the other day what was happening about all the patients who died at Gosport War Memorial Hospital. Officially Hampshire Police Force has stood down and is to be replaced by another force whom will review the evidence, with the CPS and decide if prosecutions are in order. Meanwhile it has all gone quiet. Then today the following petition arrived in my mail box.It makes alarming reading. Anyone interested in the case might liketo read it. https://chn.ge/2JXChvr
I hope you won’t mind if I call the UK autorities and UK media “British trolls” from now on. By your own admission they engage in the same activity as Russian trolls, so it is perfectly warranted.
MaryPaul
July 27, 2018 at 20:06
“However someone did ask here the other day what was happening about all the patients who died at Gosport War Memorial Hospital.”
Are you aware it was investigated by Sir Brian Jarman but he was blocked by the Common Purpose group which has infiltrated the NHS,Police,Fire Service and the rest of the Civil Service.
@ Dave Lawton July 27, 2018 at 20:27
The ‘The Panel Report’ can be downloaded from this link: https://www.gosportpanel.independent.gov.uk/panel-report/
Perhaps if some of the doctors and nurses were named Petrovich or Mikhailov, the MSM would get on the case.
Paul Barbara
July 27, 2018 at 23:34
Thanks Paul looks useful.Will have to go through it slowly.
It is pity, Mary Paul, bacause I like logical questions and conclusions in your comments. I hope you may kindly change your mind.
New police investigation launched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-44983233
MaryPaul
July 28, 2018 at 08:05
“New police investigation launched”
Solved. Have been saying it for years.People need to wake up.It is the Common Purpose group that has wormed its way into
the NHS which was born out of the Exegesis Cult which was no more or no less than a brainwashing cult using a form of EST “Erhard Seminars Training” which came out of Scientology.
well said Pete Barton.
And Sharp Ears, No, I didn’t get any real fotos.. the one I wanted would have been Kool, but it would have ment a treck to the car for Tripod and big camera.. and I was very weary.. I hope we don’t have too much heat wave leading up to next year, I’m more of an Autumn One
i got some video though –
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCADeL7Al3p2zDEcZs2wNPSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5wPVOgmhoo