My world view changed forever when, after 20 years in the Foreign Office, I saw colleagues I knew and liked go along with Britain’s complicity in the most terrible tortures, as detailed stunningly in the recent Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee Report. They also went along with keeping the policy secret, deliberately disregarding all normal record taking procedures, to the extent that the Committee noted:
131. We note that we have not seen the minutes of these meetings either: this causes us great concern. Policy discussions on such an important issue should have been minuted. We support Mr Murray’s own conclusion that were it not for his actions these matters may never have come to light.
The people doing these things were not ordinarily bad people; they were just trying to keep their jobs, comforting themselves with the thought that they were only civil servants obeying orders. Many were also actuated by the nasty “patriotism” that grips in time of war, as we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost nobody in the FCO stood up against the torture or against the illegal war – Elizabeth Wilmshurst, Carne Ross and I were the only ones to leave over it.
I then had the still more mortifying experience of the Foreign Office seeking to punish my dissent by bringing a series of accusations of gross misconduct – some of them criminal – against me. The people bringing the accusations knew full well they were false. The people investigating them knew they were false from about day 2. But I was put through a hellish six months of trial by media before being acquitted on all the original counts (found guilty of revealing the charges, whose existence was an official secret!). The people who did this to me were people I knew.
I had served as First Secretary in the British Embassy in Poland, and bumped up startlingly against the history of the Holocaust in that time, including through involvement with organising the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. What had struck me most forcibly was the sheer scale of the Holocaust operation, the tens of thousands of people who had been complicit in administering it. I could never understand how that could happen – until I saw ordinary, decent people in the FCO facilitate extraordinary rendition and torture. Then I understood, for the first time, the banality of evil or, perhaps more precisely, the ubiquity of evil. Of course, I am not comparing the scale of what happened to the Holocaust – but evil can operate on different scales.
I believe I see it again today. I do not believe that the majority of journalists in the BBC, who pump out a continual stream of “Corbyn is an anti-semite” propaganda, believe in their hearts that Corbyn is a racist at all. They are just doing their job, which is to help the BBC avert the prospect of a radical government in the UK threatening the massive wealth share of the global elite. They would argue that they are just reporting what others say; but it is of course the selection of what they report and how they report it which reflect their agenda.
The truth, of which I am certain, is this. If there genuinely was the claimed existential threat to Jews in Britain, of the type which engulfed Europe’s Jews in the 1930’s, Jeremy Corbyn, Billy Bragg, Roger Waters and I may humbly add myself would be among the few who would die alongside them on the barricades, resisting. Yet these are today loudly called “anti-semites” for supporting the right to oppose the oppression of the Palestinians. The journalists currently promoting those accusations, if it came to the crunch, would be polishing state propaganda and the civil servants writing railway dockets. That is how it works. I have seen it. Close up.
How many different countries passports can you have before you can’t be a civil servant or elected minister of one?
In western democracies you usually need to have citizenship of the country for which you work as a civil servant or minister. That is an allowed derogation to EU rules on the freedom to work in any EU country you please provided you are a national of one of the 28 EU member states.
There are however no rules – as far as I’m aware – barring people with dual nationality from taking such jobs, Do you believe there should be and if som could you explain why?
Yes i can explain, i think it must be a matter of loyalty – to the state you are a civil servant or elected to or to any other state that you have a passport for.
Is that hard to understand?
Would a Russian passport holder be allowed to work in the US state department? Or a Chinese one at GCHQ? Or a Pakistani one at an Indian nuclear weapons facilty? Etc.
I certainly beieve it should be publicly declared how many passports are held by public servants. Do you believe different? Why?
Stand down everyone, Boris has apologised
https://twitter.com/markdean318/status/1028601323166621697?s=19
The Jewish Chronicle under Stephen Pollard has been in the forefront of the anti-Corbyn smears, a recent example being the recording and coverage of Peter Willsman. In their article, however, he is grossly mis-represented and this distortion is put into the mouth of the well-respected progressive Rabbi Laura Janner-Klausner. When I showed her a screen-shot of her “words” she was aghast, and told me she had said no such thing. I then complained to Pollard who dismissed my complaint as ridiculous and refused further correspondence. A summary of my complaint to IPSO can be found at:
https://www.academia.edu/37222738/Mis-attribution_in_the_Jewish_Chronicle
‘It’s a quiet time for politics’.
Good one from the Rev yesterday. The comments are good too.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/it-is-a-quiet-time-for-politics/
How wonderful Brian. I have seen the group dance.
Relatives of mine have visited the Lajee Centre in the Aida Camp and are friends of Rich Wiles who ran the centre there for the youngsters teaching them many skills such as photography, IT, etc
I expect you know that the ‘camp’ is home for about 6,000 Palestinians in a tiny area of land in Bethlehem against which Israel built their evil Wall. The dwellings are multi- storey. The children play on balconies and are shot at by IDF snipers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aida_Camp
‘Sumud ‘ – an Arabic word for ‘steadfastness’. The Palestinians have it in spades
Rich Wiles – The Art of Resistance
http://www.badil.org/en/publication/periodicals/al-majdal/item/1266-the-art-of-resistance.html
In our ‘democracy’ but thank God for Mr Barley, the Festival director. Mr Regev is thwarted.
Home Office stopped author from speaking at UK festival, says publisher
Visa refusals mean Palestinian Nayrouz Qarmout unlikely to get to Edinburgh book festival
The publisher of a Palestinian author denied a visa to appear at the Edinburgh book festival this year says the Home Office has effectively stopped her from speaking, despite reversing its decision.
Nayrouz Qarmout, who is also a TV journalist, was one of a dozen Middle Eastern and African writers and illustrators who had their applications for visitor visas refused, sometimes multiple times, ahead of this year’s festival, which began on Saturday.
With all but three having received their visas, on Sunday Qarmout was granted hers in a last-minute reprieve after applying three times since April.
A Home Office spokesperson said: “We have decided to issue a visa to Mrs Qarmout on the basis of new information that has been provided. We are working with her to ensure she receives her visa and travel documents as quickly as possible.”
However, it is unlikely Qarmout will make it in time for her scheduled appearance on Wednesday, when she was due to speak at a sold-out event about her book, The Sea Cloak and Other Stories.
As a Gaza resident, she also requires approval from Jordan to fly from Amman to the UK, as well as an exit permit from Israel to pass through the Erez Crossing on the border. She has been advised that it will take four to five days for her passport to arrive in Gaza.
The festival’s director, Nick Barley, said a new event would be planned for 23 August in her honour. “If she can attend, it will be a celebration of freedom of speech,” he said. “If not, we’ll bring attention to her case.”
/..
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/12/home-office-stopped-author-nayrouz-qarmout-speaking-uk-festival-edinburgh
As Aaron Bastani said (& I agree) I think levels of bigotry & racial superiority over “others” (Racism), in England has reached levels akin to the inter war period.
I am seriously now considering leaving England permanently. When former leading comedians think it’s ok to go along with this, as actual violence agains minority women is sky rocketing. I won’t even associate with old friends now as know their the sort to just go along, have a laugh etc, when they have no idea wider context of what’s acutely happening.
And they don’t want to know. Really they don’t want to see the links between this & Yemen for instance, as with Iraq. To know that they are a whole generation led into similar things as Germans were. That they are actually sick bastards.
And personally it’s so isolating to be in a culture this sick. …And I don’t want to face the blowback that will surely come. And the escalation after that, because they won’t see what they have done. Just as 9/11 was used.
The Battle of Lies. Fake News in the Great War – Three Arrows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBODfLEZfWg
Ishmael, that’s very sad. I wish you well.
It’s difficult & would take me a little while, but things don’t look good.
Iv acutely a far wider set of associates I don’t contact enough. But old local friends still in old council estates? & avoiding local pubs etc.
It’s just that exaggerated smile you know? A kind of demanding of acceptance that they are good blokes (it’s usually men who are most effected imo). And then they come out with all this trash from the media, who they apparently don’t take seriously. ?
I know a lot more good people, maybe I just need to mix more carefully. A least that. Maybe just Shrewsbury, These overflow towns are the worst. No history & ltd experience & education.
Ricky Gervais may be an outstandingly good actor, and his material is very good indeed in some respects, but he’s also a terrible human being who thinks “mong” jokes and rape “jokes” are funny. He’s obviously intelligent enough to know what he’s doing, too.
I wouldn’t extend this questionable humour to the whole country, and take the slippery slope argument that everything will necessarily get very much worse along this direct line. Recall that a huge protest movement opposed the Iraq invasion, before it even occurred. This has never happened before. Similarly, it used to be taken as fine sport to mock people’s colour, on national television, something which simply could not happen today.
Open racism as an election platform was also considered a fair tactic in many quarters. Things don’t move everywhere at the same pace, and expecting perfection is only going to disappoint. Where would you think of going, anyway?
Some good points there. & No obviously not, but it’s a big chunk. It is part of a wave classic populism (if their is any other sort) using muslims as scapegoats for issues people face.
This is not the time @ ALL for this kind of “humour”. Yet it’s accepted…
North Korea.
When the comedy runs out the hollow bitter men get their dog whistles out. Only joking.
Any constituents of Alister Jack, Conservative MP Dumfries and Galloway, on here?
13th August 2017
Scottish Tory MP has over £70,000 of shares in firm in world’s ‘worst’ tax havenwww.heraldscotland.com/news/15470080.Scottish_Tory_MP_has_over___70_000_of_shares_in_firm_in_world_s__worst__tax_haven/
The firm is Jardine Mathieson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Matheson – well known for opium trading to Hong Kong in the C19.
Rolling in it. I’m alright Jack!
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=25674
From behind The Scotsman’s paywall in 2007 – https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SNKPPzjpNM0J:https:%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fbusiness%2Fmanagement%2Fyou-can-sleep-when-you-re-dead-alister-jack-1-679778%20&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Trust his constituents are doing as well as he is.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15470080.Scottish_Tory_MP_has_over___70_000_of_shares_in_firm_in_world_s__worst__tax_haven/
Posting this because Mr Jack defends Zionist Israel. Cannot say here how I know this as it would break a confidence Not an actual CFoI member though according to his Register of Interests. Probably couldn’t spare the time to visit Israel.
Hope he doesn’t own Cardross!
No he doesn’t, but Cardross is the other festival! Jack doesn’t own the Eden site either, but of course both sites are owned by, well, landowners, but both seem quite friendly towards us assorted freaks.
The Eden festival is in Dumfries and Galloway. Ironically, the police seem very keen on busting for drugs, even setting up a headquarters camp on-site. Despite me being a festival volunteer and displaying a site vehicle sticker, my car was searched using a sniffer dog, which was rather funny because I was on a run to help stock the bar.
“Have you got any drugs in your car?”
“Well not if you don’t count the alcoholic drinks filling the back half and all these packets of tobacco other volunteers asked me to get!”
I wish they were as keen on fixing the roads; twice in four years I’ve ruined a wheel by hitting unrepaired holes.
Maybe next year the organisers will take the Eden festival to somewhere else, Clark, take it to the borders maybe, or just over the Erskine Bridge into Argyl, sort of opposite Brians on the other side.
The police are not responsible for road maintenance and repairs, Clark.
Of course not. But they could encourage the council; it is a public safety matter after all, far more so than most recreational drugs, apart from alcohol of course.
It’s funny how it works, Now that I actually see it, iv always kinda known Ricky Gervais (like many who seek limelight) …Well let’s just say to be polite, someone I wouldn’t want to meet or talk to really…at all. In fact I would endure some discomfort to avoid.
Though never someone I ever really tried to watch myself. It’s amazing how you can fall into a go along mentality.
The juggernaut of “free to offend muslims” across society. It’s funny how then never pick on anyone else to offend isn’t it?
The Life of Brian and Jerry Springer the Opera offended many. The visit of the Pope didn’t go down too well in some parts of the UK. Homosexuality offends many religious types.
I think you totally missed the point.
If muslims didn’t actually face what they face ( & then even). Even if it’s just about free speech to him personally ( I don’t think so, It’s just capitalising on the popular trend of muslim hatred throughout society) it’s toxic, ..TOXIC timing.
This stuff is not remotely funny, it’s “free speech” & “right to offend” used to openly attack muslims over and over and over and over again. By a large segment of society.
Can’t you see that’s not what this whole thing is about? What kind of person does one have to be? To see this & think it’s ok to stick your 2 cents worth in?
I mean this is the “Alt-right” neo fascist manta of today, they have been singing it for years now. Years they have been using “Free speech” to specifically target muslims. And Ricky didn’t notice?
That he’s sanding next to Borris & Trump & Bannon etc?
@Ishmael,
If you don’t want people making comments and “sticking their 2 cents worth in” then why do you post? Maybe it is so that you can constantly reply to your own posts?
? ???
I mean the sort if thing Borris did.
Have I written anything that likens muslims to a post box, dehumanises them etc?
He basically carried on the joke, used the trope Borris did. Is it so hard to figure out what I’m talking about here ?
Am I taking to adults here?
Some of us recognise the valid points you’re making Ishmael.
Thanks Jo, I think I’m a bit scatty & unsure in general. But thought the specific point was pretty clear.
Guy cracks a “joke” comparing targeted minority to object. Other guy bounces of it…uncritically.
@Soothmoother,
I could add the late, great Dave Allen to that list and possibly Billy Connolly as well.
homosexuality also offends some atheists…usually they are racist to boot
Any evidence for this? You say “usually” – so you must have some pretty substantial sources. Produce it if you’d be so kind.
Glenn_nl, I think you have misunderstood. Homophobes tend to be racist as well because these are both bigotries; that some bigots happen to be atheist is incidental.
Hmm, you might be being a little generous there, Clark. In any case, atheists tend very strongly to be free of bigotries which exceedingly often have roots in religious delusions.
God tells you who to hate, and the religious brainwashed dupes – largely unable to think for themselves, but more than happy to hate an “other” – will go along with it.
Try listening to the podcasts from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF.org) sometime – you won’t find too much bigotry there. Unless you count being anti-religious as bigoted, of course. But that’s a bit like accusing anti-fascists of not being tolerant enough of fascists’ views.
anecdotal… seeing the standard chavs who hate bible bashers msulims and queers
the alt right is godless so they claim…any way you seem remarkably keen to defend them for some reason
just pointing out bigotry is NOT isolated to religious believers like you claim
@glenn
You’re hardly doing a great line in tolerance yourself by spouting lies about people of various faiths.
“God tells you who to hate…” and the other nonsense and insults you include in your post suggest there’s a fair old load of hate in your own heart towards those whose beliefs you disapprove of. Hardly a great example, are you?
Glenn, people don’t know themselves. They think they do, but unless they deliberately self-search, it is just an assumption. If they do self-search, they will almost certainly be in for some surprises, because the subconscious mind with its ancient, evolved history is nothing like the self-image, which is partly conditioned and partly self-developed and self-maintained, over the course of their life.
People decide to be ‘atheists’ – I’ve put that in scare-quotes because holding a conscious belief in no way determines whether one feels as if there’s a supreme-being-that-creates or not.
There’s someone I knew who thought himself to be atheist, but his manner when discussing the existence or non-existence of ‘God’, his obvious hostility towards ‘God’ strongly suggested that he was scared of ‘God’. He very strongly wanted there not to be any omnipotent, omniscient being, and was angry at any suggestion that there might be. I suspect something troubled his conscience, but he had submerged the matter from consciousness. He definitely wasn’t religious, but how could I call him an atheist when he obviously felt that there might be a ‘God’ to be scared of?
The converse is sometimes also the case. Some religious people experience a “crisis of faith”, where they start to doubt the existence of ‘God’. This might really worry them, or they might “become atheist”.
– – – – – –
Such conscious-subconscious disparities apply to other matters too. The majority of people think of themselves as either ‘heterosexual’ or ‘homosexual’. But who we’re attracted to is a complex of many influences, and isn’t under our conscious control, and gender isn’t a simple duality anyway. So what might happen if a person whose self image has defined their self as heterosexual finds themselves attracted to someone “of the same sex”? Can they begin to suspect that their self-image was wrong? Most people are very bad at that; they’re attached to their self-image without even knowing that any attachment is possible. They’ve never considered that their self might consist of more than their self-image.
– – – – – –
Such matters are complex, because the words we use and the elements reality is made of bear nothing like a one-to-one relationship with each other.
Clark: Your comment reminded me of an old joke “If God doesn’t exists then why does Richard Dawkins hate him so much?”
Clark: Interesting points, all. Particularly the point about “deciding” to be atheist, and how that matches up with “deciding” to be heterosexual or homosexual
Personally, I didn’t decide to be either – it was just decided the camp (phnarr) that I was in, on an attraction basis towards females or males, whether I wanted to be or not.
As far as atheism goes, I was a particularly enthusiastic evangelical Christian at one time, back in the day, before making the error of actually thoroughly reading the Bible, in order to better understand God. I didn’t have to read past Exodus to conclude – to my not inconsiderable dismay – that this was not the God of Love that I had been brought up to worship. I had no excuses for Him.
Later, Christianists who cooed about Jesus or ranted at others how they should be “saved”, started to annoy me more an more. Hate-filled bigots who held placards accosting pedestrians going about their lives that God condemned everyone who was not a virgin man, with a virgin woman, on their wedding night. That God Hates Faggots. That all who are not “saved” are filthy vermin who ought to be put to death. That someone would try to beat me up – with a considerable number of his mates right behind him, bravely enough – because I questioned their assertions that abortion (or contraception!) is murder.
(By “assertion”, I mean people were aggressively waving placards, and shouting in the faces of people going along the street. Stopping cars, waving these boards at them, and demanding their agreement before allowing them to proceed.)
All this rather turned me against the peaceful, loving Christianists who only wanted to tell you how much Jesus loved you and spread the good word.
This was chiefly in New York, New Jersey and San Francisco.
Can you imagine Muslims getting away with this sort of crap?
Jo1: I haven’t told any lies. You liar.
skyblaze: The plural of anecdote is not data. You did not qualify your assertions just by the self-identified individuals you bumped into, so produce some actual data, if you’d be so kind. (My guess is that you have nothing.)
@Glenn
“You liar.”
Dear, dear more anger. You should have that seen to.
Dear, dear more anger. You should have that seen to.
You could try addressing the point… but if that’s too much of a challenge, I entirely understand.
Glenn, the Christianists you describe maintain their “belief in God” because the sort of rabble-rousing incitement to be found in the opening books of the bible relieve them of any need to examine or understand their feelings of aggression and superiority. They have no idea about their own underlying motivations, nor any idea whether they believe in God or not.
But you also get ‘atheists’ who accept evolution and therefore their animal ancestry, and consciously they’ll agree that everyone has a subconscious, but they don’t accept that anything they do or think is motivated from beneath consciousness. Whatever they do they find a rationalisation for it. The rationalisation comes after the feelings and the consequent behaviour, but they’re not conscious of the rationalisation process.
I’m not claiming to be immune, but I do at least catch myself at it sometimes. Whether I catch every instance is presumably impossible to know. Sometimes I don’t spot it until ages afterwards, and then it’s like “ahhh, that’s why I did that!”
I made my points in the original post. You chose to label me a liar
You clearly despise people of faith, any faith and your rant against them, the personal opinions which you present as fact, prove it.
You claim their God tells them who to hate. That is a lie.
The rest is just personal insults which, rather than prove your case, only prove the level of hatred you harbour yourself towards those who follow a faith. I’d say you’re the one with the problem.
Jo1, Glenn’s an old friend on here, so please forgive me for defending him. From his August 13, 22:30 comment it is clear that his anger was provoked by the appalling behaviour of some people who regard themselves as Christians, and he called you a liar in response to you accusing him of “spouting lies about people of various faiths”. In fairness, they are not lies, but neither do they apply to everyone who is religious.
Unfortunately, us humans are dumb all over, and a little ugly on the side…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUg3wshcuLI
“In any case, atheists tend very strongly to be free of bigotries…”
Most of my best friends are atheists but almost none can make that boast convincingly. (Me included, as a self described gnostic agnostic.)
@skyblaze,
I would have thought that atheists/agnostics, like myself are far less prone to judgemental traits such as racism/homophobism than religious folks, as we tend to have far more open and inclusive minds.
We accept all people, unless those people happen to target minorities in society.
I’d say the numerous judgments you’re making in that post prove that you’re anything but not judgmental!
(Not a reply to Andyoldlabour; I just clicked that button to position this comment here…)
“I’m better than you because I believe in this God!”
“No, I’m better than you because I believe in this God!”
“Well I’m better than any of you because I don’t believe in any god!”
Note the “I’m better than…” meme that’s common to all of them. This comes straight out of the subconscious. Everyone feels better than everyone else – and it’s just the genes talking, the life force. And it has to be that way – Not one of anyone’s ancestors died before they reproduced, not one of anyone’s ancestors acted as if someone else’s right to life and reproduction outweighed their own – so of course every one of us has inherited that trait. It doesn’t even matter if we believe otherwise; we can’t escape being what we are.
So now we all argue over it, and attach labels to ourselves to justify it.
Just a general comment on this subject. One must distinguish between a religion, a system of belief and its interpretation and the way it is practiced.
Whether any religion is inclusive, coercive or tolerant is also not always clear. Some people become aggressive atheists thereby almost converting atheism into a religion. On all this there may also be a certain smugness because someone has found the true meaning of life.
A lot of people live life from cradle to grave having not thought about this because that is all they have known. Some people on the other hand question the beliefs they are so clearly indoctrinated with in thier childhood because they realise that in a multifaith society thier dear close friends whom they like so much cannot be so bad as to belong to a doomed faith which is essentially what all religions have in common, to indoctrinate you into salvation whilst others around you perish because of their blindness.
Maybe one day religion will run out its course and everyone will become enlightened enough to understand its true underlying message is fake, simply because so many other people can’t be wrong, and because religion is divisive and not inclusive.
Background and experience play a lot in how people come into this. In many countries there has been so much retrogression that from tolerant societies that were so much multidenominational arose an intolerance and exclusivity that created this polarisation. This is being enacted in Syria recently in front of our eyes and hopefully Syria will be saved from this madness, unlike some other countries.
@Jo1,
I do not see myself as superior to others, instead I regard people as my equals, regardless of their colour, creed, sexual persuasion, gender etc., but I do get ann0yed, when people who have no evidence to prove that their deity exists, continue to preach to others in a rather high handed way.
I am not impressed by wealth, titles or religious order, I simply exist and would get on with my fellow man/woman on those terms.
Andyoldlabour, August 14, 22:53:
– “I do not see myself as superior to others…”
Yes, that’s your self image, and it is of a form that I regard as worthy. But there is far more to us than our self self image. For instance, I expect Tony Blair has a similar self image, yet his actions strongly suggest that, at some level, Iraqi lives didn’t matter to him very much. Even if his war was a ‘mistake’ (which he denies), he has steadfastly refused to take any responsibility for the carnage he actively helped, and indeed plotted, to unleash.
These days, we can see the tension of his internal conflict etched into his face. But can he see it himself? Nothing in what he says or does suggests so.
They are moving fast! First they come for Alex Jones…
‘Acclaimed Venezuelan News Site Latest Victim in Facebook Censorship Spree’: https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13989
‘..Publishers for the news outlet were informed by Facebook on Thursday that their page had been “unpublished” due to “recent activity” that “doesn’t follow the Facebook Pages Terms.” When a Facebook page is unpublished, it becomes no longer viewable to the public, only to the administrators. Venezuela Analysis will have the option to appeal the decision.
It isn’t clear what specific activity prompted the move.
The outlet called it a “naked attempt to block our grassroots coverage of the on-the-ground situation in Venezuela. Need more evidence that [Facebook] is arm of corporate [mainstream media] censoring alternative voices?”…’
‘…Venezuela Analysis has received glowing endorsements from a host of political influencers. Filmmaker John Pilger wrote, “Never has a country, its people, its politics, its leader, its myths and truths been so misreported and lied about as Venezuela in the past decade. Not only has [Venezuela Analysis] done much to correct this with its scrupulous attention to facts, both obvious and concealed, it has opened up a unique space for genuine critique of one of the world’s most imaginative popular movements.”
Director Oliver Stone said, “Unlike most mainstream media reporting about governments in Latin America, Venezuela Analysis provides a sorely missed counterpoint — presenting a progressive perspective on the news from Venezuela that is in-depth and also takes the views of the country’s poor majority into account.”…’
‘…Linguist and philosopher Noam Chomsky wrote that the outlet “has regularly provided very useful description, analysis and commentary on developments in Venezuela, rarely available in the US or the West generally, and valuable for a balanced understanding.”
Not everybody is thrilled with the coverage, though. In a leaked WikiLeaks cable from the United States, the outlet is included on a list of websites allegedly used by the Venezuelan government to “liberally” use “cyberspace to spread its war on the oligarchy, neoliberalism, the United States government, and the proposed Free Trade Area of the Americas.”…’
Sad day for the truth – who will be next?
Seriously, you’re besmirching the words of Paster Niemöller by relating them to a fascist dog like Alex Jones?
By “They” – you’re talking about a bunch of private corporations who’ve decided to de-platform his lies and hate speech. Not an evil government who tosses groups into concentration camps based on their ethnicity.
Get a grip, Paul. I wish people would understand what First Amendment rights mean too, instead of accepting the lazy lies told by the far right.
The whole episode makes me laugh. It’s a shopping mall. It’s like being banned from the shopping mall.
The end is nigh. They threw me and my gang of thugs out. Cry cry cry.
The people they came first for were the Communists, as Pastor Niemoeller said. And those Communists were no more angels than Alex Jones is. Nevertheless, Niemoeller’s words were true, and fit the current situation.
“And those Communists were no more angels than Alex Jones is”
Is that some kind of a joke? They were pioneers of an actual civil society. Where “Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine”.
You must be having a laugh – and you’ve entirely ignored the bit where I pointed out the “they” are private companies.
If you got banned from this message board for infringement of the rules – a private blog, nothing to do with the ~e~v~i~l~ government – would you be screaming about how they’re coming for you, free speech and so on?
(If you did, it would be rather silly – btw. It’s exactly the same in principle as youtube banning that racist nutcase. )
does the fact that the NWO is organized privately make anything any better for anybody except the private owners enjoying their lawless privacy on private islands?
@ glenn_nl August 13, 2018 at 12:28
‘They’ are in cahoots with the PTB, just as much as is the MSM. Have you not realised that?
They do things in stages, incrementally, like boiling frogs.
HMG also has an SAS ‘Increment’, for ‘extra dirty’ tricks.
NWO, secret government, come on for Christ’s sake. You lot have bought into Jones’ utter BS full time.
The real power is with the moneyed classes who absolutely own the likes of the Republican party, Trump and his entire stinking cabinet – except those who _are_ the moneyed classes, who are simply there to make policy that gets themselves even richer. And they’re doing a fine job of that too.
All of this is right out in the open, but stooges for this class – like Alex Jones – want you jumping from foot to foot, suspecting all sorts of risible crap to keep you from seeing what’s happening right in front of your eyes.
Sure, keep talking about shadow government, UN takeovers, Agenda-21, FEMA re-education camps, pedo-rings run out of non-existent basements and so on. Surprised you haven’t bought into all this Q-anon BS too, unless you’re already fully into it!
They maybe private companies but they are also a very large part of the internet.
These corporations are tied very closely to the govt. They are now acting to shut down conservative voices and voices that go against the leftist meme.
The hypocrisy of some the posters here beggars belief. The sentiment of the original post was correct. People here are quite happy to see this happen because largely at the moment they agree with the sentiment to shut down dissenting voices. If Alex Jones is such a wack job it is better to hear him so we can all laugh. The fact that some people are only too happy to see him removed and shut down tells its own story.
I think we all know where that leads…
It’s difficult, IanA – and without a solution for sure.
But you’re not quite getting the point. A private business has a right to say who gets to use its services, and to set out terms and conditions for its use.
Now we might agree that the likes of Facebook, Google, Youtube, even Apple – all should be broken up and maybe publicly owned as utilities (which Facebook’s founder originally claimed FB _was_ – a utility). But as it stands, we can hardly blame them for enforcing their conditions of use.
Far from laughing at AJ’s fevered rantings, a lot of his True Believers are going around with guns to shoot up supposed pedo-rings in non-existent basements, and threatening and harassing bereaved parents of the victims of school shootings. You might think that is harmless fun. I disagree.
Like lambs to the slaughter…
Facebook has been farming you!
Principle – if you don’t pay for the service, you’re the product not the customer.
Learn the difference between gratis and libre.
Alex Jones hasn’t been shut down; he pays for his own server, same as Craig does. He’s just been kicked off Facebook. If you all hadn’t rushed like lemmings to get your “free” accounts…
@glenn_nl.. Losing your well-informed patience with us gullible conspiracy nuts, are you?
Please, before categorically dismissing those “non-existent basements”, do a bit of follow-up digging beyond the official declarations. And while you’re at it, check when & how the term “fake news” first popped up.
Oh, and take a good look at the destroyed target of that “true believer’s” magic single bullet, too.
This case is far from closed, despite the disinfo you seem to be satisfied with.
Well I’m certainly losing patience, Wonky. Your pet cases may be “far from closed”, but the actual legal cases against obvious war criminals who spread blatant lies are yet to open.
This pet case, as you cynically call it, involves a whole bunch of actual war criminals, some of which opened more than just the Libyan Pandora’s box. It was treated like a case that threatened US national security, and declared closed before it ever was opened. I’m with you, Clark, it is not my intention to marginalize any wrong-doings by war criminals.
I tried following Pizzagate. I found one thing that stood up, which, if I remember correctly, was that Hillary Clinton’s office had dismissed an investigation into a number of accusations of sexual harassment of children by an employee.
But to find that I had to wade through multiple pages and videos of supposedly suggestive triangular logos, a Christmas gathering with an announcer whose voice was supposedly sinister, supposed connections to nearby pizza shops, stories about napkins with things written on them, wrongly attributed photos of meat storage lockers, and pages of confusing chat logs that were supposed to mean something.
If there’s a case, someone should make one website with all the actual evidence laid out. Clearly.
If politicians are war criminals, document their war crimes. Clearly.
I wonder. How many communists have you met? I’ve met about 25 in my 68 years and, with the exception of one creepy crawler, they have all been charming, amusing and very pleasant company. So when anyone mentions the “Communists!” my reaction is to ask, were they nice?
The ‘FAR’ right. Why is it always the FAR right which anyone who does not subscribe to a left wing view is branded as. Always FAR right. You need to listen to yourselves are you seriously comparing many people in this country with the evils of National Socialism just because they don’t share your world view? Get a grip.
Caitlin Johnstone from 10th August. “In a corporatist system of government, wherein there is no meaningful separation between corporate power and state power, corporate censorship is state censorship.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/10/in-a-corporatist-system-of-government-corporate-censorship-is-state-censorship/
In other words, fascism –
:a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality —J. W. Aldridge
Did you hear or see Pompeo on Venezuela?
@ Vivian O’Blivion August 13, 2018 at 10:52
Exactly!
With the Torturer in Chief, Gina Haspel, now embedded in the CIA, what hope is there for any democracy. Bolton. Pompeo. Pence.
Gina Haspel CIA Torture Cables Declassified
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50013.htm
By Tom Blanton – National Security Archive
August 10th 2018
If anyone is stuck for Venezuela/South American/World news I find this site useful
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/
Ah yes. the Venezuelan regime’s own propaganda channel – very objective
Oh, it’s a ‘regime’ now is it? Very objective.
Some nations never described as ‘regimes’ in the corporate media, despite being authoritarian, undemocratic, and often headed up by complete despots:
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Uzbekistan, Bahrain, Myanmar, Azerbaijan, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Tajikistan, Rwanda, Cambodia, Honduras, Uganda, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kyrgyzstan, Kenya, Djibouti, Morocco, Kazakhstan. etc. etc.
These states are allied with the US, and therefore they are ‘legitimate governments’. If a government is not allied with the US, and especially when they have reserves of fossil fuels, they are labeled with ‘regime’ to induce a sense of illegitimacy and pave the way for future ‘regime change’, just as we have seen with the repeated attempts by the US regarding Venezuela, which happens to own the world’s largest oil reserves.
Can you show me a capitalist country which flourishes while American interests regularly stage coups and assassinations against its leaders, fund armed extremists within it’s borders, employ trade embargo’s & sanctions against it, wage war and poison world opinion with relentless media wide propaganda?
It’s a very short list.
Trump is a monster. Aside from domestic and international policy, he’s just a monster as a person.
The latest word in his micro vocabulary is “lowlife”. Experts have still to agree on which word he had to unlearn to make room.
From this weekend. “The big story that the Fake News Media refuses to report is lowlife Christopher Steele’s many meetings with Deputy A.G. Bruce Ohr and his beautiful wife, Nelly.”
https://goo.gl/images/1itFQJ
If you’re going to try and insult someone at least spell their name correctly. Trump is a slug in human form.
Re Vivian at 10.38
The link to that story is:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/nellie-ohr-the-woman-in-the-middle-of-the-fbi-dojs-russia-scandal-is-a-communist-sympathizer-and-corrupt-never-trumper/
Hyperbole and purple prose that counts the Daily Caller as a legitimate source. A free tinfoil hat with every issue.
So Trump is “a monster” has a “micro vocabulary” and is “a slug in human form”
With arguments as powerful as this then there is no doubt that the Trump support base will vanish in a short space of time – unless of course it doesn’t. In which case presumably all Trump supporters will be deemed to exhibit the same attributes as those ascribed to the President.
…and congratulations you will have played your role in creating all of the conditions necessary for civil war. No doubt you are very proud of your contribution – and all without the need to bother acquiring any knowledge or formulating any arguments. From your perspective hate speech has never been easier or more potentially rewarding.
You may find it acceptable to attack an individual based on a physical characteristic over which they exercise no control, I was raised with different social values.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA
“If you’re out there and you’re cute, maybe you’re even beautiful, just remember one thing. There’s more of us ugly mother f*****s than you.” Frank Zappa.
There are thousands of examples of this sort of behaviour. Trump apologists like to pretend they don’t exist, while claiming his opponents are rude, violent, intolerant, and guilty of precisely the behaviour at which Trump excels. This is because they are utter hypocrites.
Oh how moral and self righteous, and utter garbage.
So please tell me – with your “different social values” what exactly did you do to protest this man? Did you celebrate when he was gunned down in the street? Did you picket his concerts? or picket local shops selling his products?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnrFUHdYpg
Or did you do none of those those things?
“As you slip and you slide down the hill on the blood of the people you kill” – It was meant as a warning, not as a celebration.
Maybe so and just think Hillary is even worse.
Yup. And that’s why Trump won.
Regarding internet censorship by private corporations, I think this author makes some good points:
In A Corporatist System Of Government, Corporate Censorship Is State Censorship
By Caitlin Johnstone (self-described as a “rogue journalist”)
Last year, representatives of Facebook, Twitter, and Google were instructed on the US Senate floor that it is their responsibility to “quell information rebellions” and adopt a “mission statement” expressing their commitment to “prevent the fomenting of discord.”
“Civil wars don’t start with gunshots, they start with words,” the representatives were told. “America’s war with itself has already begun. We all must act now on the social media battlefield to quell information rebellions that can quickly lead to violent confrontations and easily transform us into the Divided States of America.”
Yes, this really happened.
Today Twitter has silenced three important anti-war voices on its platform: it has suspended Daniel McAdams, the executive director of the Ron Paul Institute, suspended Scott Horton of the Scott Horton Show, and completely removed the account of prominent Antiwar.com writer Peter Van Buren.
SNIP
In a corporatist system of government, wherein there is no meaningful separation between corporate power and state power, corporate censorship is state censorship. Because legalized bribery in the form of corporate lobbying and campaign donations has given wealthy Americans the ability to control the U.S. government’s policy and behavior while ordinary Americans have no effective influence whatsoever, the U.S. unquestionably has a corporatist system of government. Large, influential corporations are inseparable from the state, so their use of censorship is inseparable from state censorship.
This is especially true of the vast mega-corporations of Silicon Valley, whose extensive ties to U.S. intelligence agencies are well-documented. Once you’re assisting with the construction of the US military’s drone program, receiving grants from the CIA and NSA for mass surveillance, or having your site’s content regulated by NATO’s propaganda arm, you don’t get to pretend you’re a private, independent corporation that is separate from government power. It is possible in the current system to have a normal business worth a few million dollars, but if you want to get to billions of dollars in wealth control in a system where money translates directly to political power, you need to work with existing power structures like the CIA and the Pentagon, or else they’ll work with your competitors instead of you
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/07/in-a-corporatist-system-of-government-corporate-censorship-is-state-censorship/
Twitter morphing to Twatter due to the 99% users complaints or due to the 1 %? The last include those above any law like MI6 & CIA.
Microsoft drove people off to Linux and Android and a similar move will happen in this niche.
I don’t really understand why this is regarded as censorship, other social media platforms are available, see: https://www.corbettreport.com/ number 344, we just need to be more flexible in where we search for news we might find credible.
How did such an outstanding young woman like Caitlin emerge in such a country as Australia as it now exists – neocons a’plenty. We must be thankful for her.
What If There Were No Official Narratives?
August 11th 2018
One of the weirdest things about the post-Iraq invasion world is how the mass media has actually gotten less accountable instead of more accountable for its reporting since that time.
Right now in the UK there’s an amazingly viral smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn running across all mainstream outlets, which, from what I can tell, consists entirely of narrative spin and no actual evidence. The powerful elites who control British mass media have an obvious vested interest in keeping the UK government from moving to the left, so they advance the absolutely insane narrative that Corbyn is a secret Nazi. They just keep saying it and saying it like it’s true until people start believing it without feeling any pressure at all to substantiate their narrative with facts. It’s been jaw-dropping to watch.
More and more we are seeing narratives about cyber-threats being used to advance reports of “attacks” and “acts of war” being perpetrated which, as far as the public is concerned, consist of nothing other than the authoritative assertions of confident-sounding media pundits. There was a recent NBC exclusive which was co-authored by Ken Dilanian, who is an actual, literal CIA asset, about the threat of hackers working for the Iranian government. The alleged Russian interference in the 2016 US elections is now routinely compared to Pearl Harbor and 9/11, despite no hard, verifiable evidence that that interference even took place ever being presented to the public.
After the mass media’s complicity in selling the Iraq invasion to the western world, we should have seen scores of people fired and changes put in place to prevent such unforgivable complicity from ever occurring again. Instead, no changes whatsoever were made to ensure that news media outlets never facilitate another disaster at the hands of secretive government agencies, and now these same outlets are allowed to promote world-shaping narratives on no evidentiary basis beyond “It’s true because we said so.”
There’s a consensus, agreed-upon narrative about what’s going on in the world that is advanced by all mass media outlets regardless of what political sector those outlets market themselves to. Exactly what should be done about individual events and situations might vary a bit from pundit to pundit and outlet to outlet, but the overall “how it is” narrative about what’s happening is the same across the board. This is the official narrative, and the plutocrat-owned media/political class has full control over it.
We all know the official narratives, right? The US and its allies are good, the latest Official Bad Guy is bad. You live in a democracy where your vote counts and your government is accountable to you and your countrymen, just like they taught you in school. The two political parties are totally different and their opposition is totally real. The news man on TV never reports any falsehoods because if he did he’d lose his job, which means that the Russian hacking thing, the Syria thing, the 9/11 thing, all happened exactly as the government told us they happened. Iraq was maybe kinda sorta a mistake, but nothing like that could ever happen again because mumble mumble cough hey look what Kanye West is doing.
/..
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/12/what-if-there-were-no-official-narratives/
By Tom Foley, her husband.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/10-facts-about-caitlin-johnstone-from-the-guy-who-knows-her-better-than-anyone-6691236aa634
I liked No 10.
“How did such an outstanding young woman like Caitlin emerge in such a country as Australia”
During the Californian Gold Rush, so many Australian’s illegally dug for gold as claim jumpers, that unregulated courts were set up to punish them, those courts became known as Kangaroo courts.
Australian’s aren’t that bad, at least they gave a home to the Cane toad, which went on to take over the country.
Not forgetting ex-Australian PM Bob Hawk, who entered the Guinness Book of Records for drinking 2.5 pints of beer in just eleven seconds in 1954.
As for your paragraph on press bias, the mother of all press encounters will take place on Thursday, known as “The Press vs The Prez.” As Trump takes questions from over seventy newspaper companies.
He will just keep repeating ‘Fake News. Fake News’. Can’t see the point of that happening.
Presumably whatever circumstances or cosmic forces produced Australian John Pilger have not yet been entirely exhausted or vanquished.
Sharp Ears – you wonder how did Caitlin Johnstone could emerge from neo-con Australia? Perhaps the same way you emerged from neo-con Britain.
Silvio
Yesterday my distrust of Cambridge Analytica resulted in my refusing to get smart meters installed by the excellent provider I am with. Something tells me that multiple corporate sources recording the same private data will amplify the message. So if you kick against the Times, the Guardian, the BBC, your corporate employer, your doctor, your ex. your mosque etc, the message to the state controller will be louder than if you just write your thoughts on CM blog, when they think he’s bonkers anyway.
Yes, I don’t think Big Brother is intelligent enough to discriminate between one man with many megaphones and one man very opposed to corporate ideology.
Prof Annabelle Sreberny on the Corbyn antisemitism smear
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/1022617218041999363/video/1
This deserves to go viral. Logically and powerfully argued, and based on personal experience.
Cor, blimey, give me a medal! I’m on topic, for a change!
‘…Both the Roman-inspired logo of the Council (top right in the illustration above) as well as its slogan (ubique – omnipresent) appear to emphasize that ambition..’
‘TURKISH STATE MEDIA EXPOSES THE AMERICAN EMPIRE & ITS MEDIA’:
https://southfront.org/turkish-state-media-exposes-the-american-empire-its-media/
‘…The escalating war of words continued all weekend, when speaking at a rally in the Black Sea town of Unye, Erdogan said that “it is wrong to dare bring Turkey to its knees through threats over a pastor,” and blasted “shame on you, shame on you. You are exchanging your strategic partner in NATO for a priest.” At the same time, Ibrahim Kalin, Erdogan’s spokesman, said that the U.S. is “facing the risk of completely losing Turkey.”…’
‘…Among the other notable highlights, Erdogan said that “we will say bye-bye to those who are ready to give up their strategic partnership for their relations with terror organizations” and that Turkey can “respond to those who started a trade war against the entire world and included our country in it by gravitating towards new co-operations, new alliances” i.e. China and Russia (which earlier today said it was considering dropping the US dollar altogether in oil trade), and warned that “it is foolish to think that Turkey can be thrown off by FX” although with inflation set to explode as the currency collapses, the local population may have a different view of this….’
‘…Largely unbeknownst to the general public, executives and top journalists of almost all major US news outlets have long been members of the influential Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).
Established in 1921 as a private, bipartisan organization to “awaken America to its worldwide responsibilities”, the CFR and its close to 5000 elite members have for decades shaped U.S. foreign policy and public discourse about it. As a well-known Council member once explained, the goal has indeed been to establish a global Empire, albeit a “benevolent” one.
Based on official membership rosters, the following illustration for the first time depicts the extensive media network of the CFR and its two main international affiliate organizations: the Bilderberg Group(covering mainly the U.S. and Europe) and the Trilateral Commission (covering North America, Europe and East Asia), both established by Council leaders to foster elite cooperation at the international level…’
It gives a nice, warm feeling to know that what I, and others, have been trying to tell the ‘unbelievers’ all this time is getting wider coverage.
We can now wear our tin foil hats with pride.
Incidentally, Nick Rockefeller tried to get Aaron Russo to join the CFR, but Russo refused. In 2001 he started to speak out, and ‘contracted’ cancer.
Aaron was born in 1943 (three days earlier than me) and died in 2007. Seems 1943 was a vintage year!
RIP, Aaron, the world lost a great man.
With a straight face, they tweet this:
CFR
Verified account
@CFR_org
15 minutes ago
Turkey is struggling to maintain the value of its currency, which has lost 40% of its value amid the country’s deteriorating relations with Washington: http://on.cfr.org/2P9gFQC
_____
https://www.cfr.org/about/newsletters/archive/newsletter/n5477
They have Angelina Jolie on one page to explain all. Ah! So sweet. https://www.cfr.org/about
It’s like a second branch of AIPAC. https://www.cfr.org/board-directors
Is Kissinger dead? Can’t see him on there anymore. Albright is still on it.
@ Sharp Ears August 13, 2018 at 15:01
Kissinger is 95; he’ll (!) soon meet his ‘Master’, payback time!
He has enough blood on his hands to sink a battleship.
Re is Kissinger dead?
You tried to brighten up my day there, but apparently it was not to be, still he’s 95, so not long now:
http://www.doadb.com/name/henry-kissinger.htm
Not to dim your optimism, but I fear that Satan may have conferred immortality upon Kissinger in exchange for Henry’s soul, such as it is.
If so, poor Kissinger! He failed to anticipate that his paltry, leathery little soul would be worth immortality, but not eternal youth and vigor. And poor us, for having to put up with his continued presence on Earth. 😉
Kissinger was interviewed over lunch by the FT a couple of weeks ago – his first question was ‘…. you’re paying?’
Current US Foreign policy truly makes for strange bedfellows.
Turkey, Syria, Iran, Russia, China and the EU. Accepting that there are huge disagreements between the various parties (Turkey and Syria going toe to toe at Turkmen mountain, Erdogan’s pretensions to lead the Sunni world v’s Tehran’s supremacy in the Shia world) they are all talking where once they were disparate voices.
I guess that the conclusion of the article is correct and for the first time in a very long time, the CFR don’t have their man in the Oval Office. Whether this is because Trump truly believes in an isolationist policy or whether Vladimir has a virtual Prince Albert attached to a chain on Trump remains to be seen.
” Erdogan’s pretensions to lead the Sunni world ”
Erdogan is an Islamist, not a Sunni.
Guess that’s the corollary for strongman leadership – can’t back down
Gilad Atzmon is also being smeared as an anti-semite. His statement.
On The Current International Zionist Smear Campaign
A Statement by Gilad Atzmon
“The criminalization of political speech and activism against Israel has become one of the gravest threats to free speech in the west.” Glenn Greenwald 19.7.2017
Together with veteran Pink Floyd star Roger Waters and many other artists and thinkers worldwide, I am being subjected to an international smear campaign, orchestrated and promoted by various Zionist institutions that attempt to silence every form of legitimate dissent of Zionism and Israeli politics.
Local councils, clubs and festivals that promote my music or my thoughts around the world are being subjected to a barrage of emails sent in a clear and malicious attempt to slander me. In these emails I am called an ‘anti-Semite’, ‘bigot’, ‘racist’, ‘Holocaust denier’, and so on.
/..
http://www.gilad.co.uk/
Italy demands Britain takes in 141 migrants on Gibraltar rescue boat
Italian transport minister Danilo Toninelli refuses the Aquarius permission to dock as charities call on European nations to help.
15:14, UK,
13 August 2018
Italy has demanded Britain take in 141 migrants rescued by a ship that flies under the flag of Gibraltar.
The group was picked up in the Mediterranean Sea by French humanitarian workers on Friday.
They boarded their boat, the Aquarius, and tried to dock in Italy.
Italian officials refused them permission, continuing a commitment not to let ships run by humanitarian groups dock there.
Transport minister Danilo Toninelli said as the boat flew under the flag of a British territory, the UK was responsible for the migrants.
He added the rescue was co-ordinated by the Libyan coastguard and that the vessel is now in Maltese waters.
Malta has also rejected letting the ship dock.
[Just send them back to Africa? It’s not that simple
Sky’s Mark Stone explains why migrants picked up in the Mediterranean cannot just be sent home.
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-why-we-cant-just-send-migrants-back-11452666 ]
French aid groups SOS Mediterranee and Doctors Without Borders have called on other European nations to volunteer a close port so the migrants can disembark.
Most of the group are from Somalia and Eritrea and include 67 unaccompanied minors and a pregnant woman.
https://news.sky.com/story/italy-demands-britain-takes-in-141-migrants-on-gibraltan-rescue-boat-11471694
____
Views on an outcome?
Gibraltar would be an obvious destination.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-hacked-e-mails-take-us-inside-the-billionaires-club-around-vladimir-putin
Pavlovs Dogs eat Magnitsky
Giant Sturgeons have more caviar
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/08/09/oleg-deripaska-probably-fed-both-parties-dirt-in-2016-election/
Saw an incongruous sight today in the town. A high end young woman in designer type clothes and with toned long brown legs was wearing an ankle tag. The mind boggled as to her crime(s).
What is a “high end” young woman – and how does this young woman differ from other young women?
Are you really such a naif? Obviously the young woman being referred to is a classy tart, as compared with the charmless slapper one normally encounters on the high street. (Your personal experience may vary depending on how rough the town in question happens to be.)
While not daring to speak for S.E., this is pretty clearly what is meant here.
So according to you young women are either “classy tarts” or “charmless slappers”
Elsewhere you are bemoaning Trump supporters for being rude. Stereotyping women in such a charmless and graceless manner would appear to be the very definition of rudeness.
Loony, I suspect your sarcasm detector is on the blink.
People on the far-right have no sense of humour, Clark, unless they’re enjoying watching the pain of people they don’t like. Or cruel mockery of “the other” – that sort of thing.
Oh silly me I did not realize that when you are gratuitously offensive it is just humor – and all those who take exception are suffering from a sense of humor failure. Conversely when people you don’t like make the same kind of remarks that is taken as cast iron evidence of their evil and hatefulness toward all of humanity,
Dontcha just love moral relativism. Pol Pot killed a lot of people but hey maybe they had a sense of humor failure. Donald Trump says something you don;t like – well he must be the devil incarnate.
Elsewhere you can see a lot of people bemoaning the plight of Jeremy Corbyn. Many of the same people seem convinced that Boris Johnson is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. Well you reap what you sow and no half decent person would ever want to represent the ignorant and vacuous people who are determined to besmirch and denigrate absolutely everyone who dares to hold a contrary view.
So what you about to get is people like Steve Bannon who has no intention of formally representing anyone, but every intention of forcing through his agenda. If you don’t like Steve Bannon well tough – he probably doesn’t like you and he doesn’t really care what you think. He doesn’t care because he is not asking for your vote. So well done you have effectively disenfranchised yourselves. \What a great move!
L: [truncated rant] “..I.f you don’t like Steve Bannon well tough – he probably doesn’t like you and he doesn’t really care what you think. He doesn’t care because he is not asking for your vote. So well done you have effectively disenfranchised yourselves. \What a great move!”
I don’t like him at all. And I’m very happy to be disenfranchised from your alt-right fascists, Loony, absol-goddam-lutely – no problem there. And never a moment of regret.
That trivia from me lured you all in. 😉
‘High end ‘. Expensive clothes and shoes and a good haircut.
Not a ‘classy tart’ but a well dressed and well turned out young woman who was with her child and husband.
‘Slappers’ in ‘leafy Surrey’ as our ever present friend likes to call it. I don’t think so.
maybe the ankle bracelet was a fashion accessory. at one point didn’t some of the fashionistas try to appear faux homeless?
Tag bracelet with skirt is classic: If you have a flaw then don’t cover it up, but highlight it. Wasn’t that an Andy Warhol maxim?
Luciana Berger has just tweeted against Corbyn for his involvement in possibly commemorating terrorists. She says that “being present is the same as being involved.” I take a look at the moral philosophy involved and show that in a sense she is right. But I go on to suggest that if we want to be involved in repairing the world we must stand with Corbyn. (ten minutes)
https://www.academia.edu/s/ef27bd994b/being-present-and-being-involved-berger-or-corbyn
I’ve just read her comments too but I think she is, as always, seeking to damage Corbyn. It’s what she does. Constantly. In no time at all Berger has become the most irritating, insufferable female in the PLP. That’s quite a feat given the competition!
Yes, good comment, do you have a copy of the screenshot she said she did not recognise?
I’ll have a Lucian Berger Meal please. Fast food is not good for you, like cheap political point-scoring.
Netanyahoo, like all fast food outlets, issues a delicious stink of onions and cooked meat, the Jewish dream of Jewish homeland. and it does smell good. But unfortunately there are other people who occupy this patch of land, even if they are not living there. Christians and Muslims occupy it with all their spiritual beings. In the religious sense, which is the deeper reality, the Holy land can never be the cheap little burger , chips and pepsi for £2.50 with tomatoe sauce or chilli the Zionists want it to be.
Corbyn was using the currency of sincerity, which is good for you.
Some pathetic anti-Putin propaganda on a French TV channel.
‘Propaganda never takes time off’: Putin ‘hunts tigers’ during his holidays, French TV claims
https://www.rt.com/news/435853-putin-tiger-fake-news/
He is shown alongside a tiger lying on the ground. It was actually tranquilized.
France 2 is a state run channel, like the BBC, and about as credible.
I guessed as much Pete.
he used a special tranquilizer only developed in russia! porton down is on the case! but first, they have to kill and cremate the tiger.
@Sharp Ears
Was that perhaps the same tiger that was later released in a different area to create the headline ‘Putin’s Tiger Killed my Pet Dog’?. I do recall that one some time back as a favourite along with’ I Saw Putin Bare his Teeth at Tony Blair’. And we still haven’t seen his’iron teeth’.
Obviously because he was taking home – stunning it was his way of preserving its freshness so he could keep its delicious testicles tempérament de la pièce
The Sky News political correspondent is correct. ‘You can say what you want in Britain as long as you are posh’.
[..]
‘Rachel Johnson, in her column in the Mail on Sunday, wrote of her elder brother’s words: “I read his piece. It read like a column written on a Sunday morning while on holiday in Italy, with a bottle or two of Asti Spumante chilling in the fridge for lunch.”
Yeah, we’ve all been there, Rachel. But the situation where the words are written or uttered ought not to make such a big difference on our assessment of their rectitude. Whether penned by a former foreign secretary in the hills of Umbria, with Asti Spumante in the fridge, or by a working class man in Walsall with a six pack of Stella, British elites ought to be more consistent in their mores.
Perhaps though we should not be so surprised, this cultural double standard purveys much of British life. The great Timothy Spall once said that “eccentricity is usually owned by middle-class and upper-class people. If you are working class and eccentric, then you’re just mad.” So it is with prejudice.’
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-you-can-say-what-you-want-in-britain-as-long-as-youre-posh-11471377
Have you any thoughts on Polly Toynbee’s similar ‘Guardian’ comments from a few years back?
Jeremy Corbyn on Sky earlier: “I was present but I did not participate”.
HE HELD THE FUCKING WREATH
Anon1,
He might have “HELD THE FUCKING WREATH”, but I am fairly convinced, that the following is close to the truth., and the people trying to destroy him are not very nice.
“The Munich widows are being misled. Jeremy did not honour those responsible for the Munich killings.
He and other Parliamentarians went to the Palestinian cemetery in Tunisia to remember the victims of the 1985 Israeli bombing of the PLO headquarters, many of whom were civilians”
Now I can’t prove the truth of that, but I am quite good at recognising lies, evil and propaganda.
https://off-guardian.org/2018/08/13/the-goal-of-propaganda-is-a-population-that-polices-itself/
Tony
The people trying to destroy him are neo liberals war mongers who see Corbyn as a threat to everything they hold dear – including the brutalization and torture of the Palestinians.
No ones perfect, Mother Teresa laid a wreath on the grave of Albaninan dictator Enver Hoxha in 1990. ?
Mother Theresa was not what she appeared to be,
Indeed controversy surrounded her work in India which led to Hitchens et al criticism of her.
Like I said nobody’s perfect.
Perhaps you should dig a bit more on why he was there.
The rabid Daily Mail isn’t pulling it’s punches, and claims Corbyn was by the graves of Bseiso and the Black September leaders. Mr Corbyn is clearly pictured holding a wreath and seemingly praying by the distinctive plaque that honours Khalaf, Abdel-Hamid and al-Omari, claims the “news” rag.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6048807/Photos-Labour-leader-Corbyn-tribute-event-Palestine-martyrs-linked-Munich-massacre.html
The knives are out for Corbyn, this will only pile pressure onto him amidst the anti-Semitism row engulfing the Labour party at the moment.
The knives will always be out for Corbyn from the powers that be because of what he stands for.
You should read the comments on Twitter following a post by Sky’s Tamara Cohen about a clip of her interview with Corbyn which a colleague had put up, namely a question about that wreath.
So many Israel supporters have piled in and they are so full of hate and vitriol.. They don’t even hold back on the language used.
I don’t how to get up the ‘threads’ of tweets and replies on Twitter.
Cohen is on maternity leave but she managed to break off to comment.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tamcohen?p=s
She is Sky News’s political correspondent.
Channel 4 right on cue with a bucket of vomit to throw over JC and having to close the programme with a rinse down half apology. How do the ‘journalists’ keep a straight face? I worry that they are self-harming.
@ remember kronstadt August 13, 2018 at 20:02
‘..How do the ‘journalists’ keep a straight face?..’
You REALLY want to know?
‘TURKISH STATE MEDIA EXPOSES THE AMERICAN EMPIRE & ITS MEDIA’:
https://southfront.org/turkish-state-media-exposes-the-american-empire-its-media/
$$$£££ – simples.
Sharp Ears, Thanks for the link
Jeremy Corbyn explains this all very well in a TV interview. It is quite obvious he is telling the truth.
He was “Searching for Peace in the Middle East”
If you want peace, vote for Jeremy Corbyn
If you want more war vote Tory.
I will be voting for Corbyn again.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tamcohen/status/869087783394168832/video/1
Tony
TBH I am rather enjoying the joint spectacle of Corbyn and the Labour Party subsumed in an Anti-semitism row, while the Tories are desperately trying to duck and dive over accusations of being Islamophobic after BoJo’s comments about the niqab.
I wonder how many UK Jews vote Labour compared to how many UK Muslims vote Conservative. Maybe, in terms of votes, the Tories would be better employed attacking anti semitism in the Labour party, than trying to make a whipping boy out of BoJo in their own party. Just a (rsther cynical) thought.
@ MaryPaul August 13, 2018 at 20:52
Hmmm, I vonder who you may be routing for? Just a thought…
@ Tony_0pmoc August 13, 2018 at 20:20
Wise and correct choice.
Enjoyed the po faced report by radio 4 tonight on this.
For some reason, the BBC didn’t spend any time on the fact that Israel bombed a foreign country – Tunisia.
“According to other sources, 56 Palestinians and 15 Tunisians were killed and about 100 wounded.[7] Hospital sources put the final count at 47 dead and 65 wounded.[8]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wooden_Leg
It’s probably worth remembering the context. Cold war still on. Iraq – Iran war. Sabra and Shatila. Nicaragua / Contras. US backing of Saudi backed terrorists/freedom fighters in Afghanistan.
@ Sharp Ears August 13, 2018 at 19:47
It’s well past time that Jeremy lay a wreath in the States for the victims of I^rael’s murderous attack on the USS Liberty.
Asymmetric warfare; let Aipac & Co. pick the bones out of that!
yes…I think we are approaching critical mass for this ridiculous stuff…so he MUST be considered some sort of serious threat to the establishment
@ skyblaze August 13, 2018 at 20:17
Of course he is a threat to the Establishment – that is what the demonisation and hyped-up BS is all about.
So we don’t so much ‘Circle the wagons’, as get behind the charge.
F*ck the Zios, ‘we are the boys who elect OUR representatives’, NOT Netz or Shai Masot, much to their chagrin.
What anti-semitism?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tom Watson steps into the limelight, as calls for Corbyn to go are probably about to appear on the horizon.
Tom Watson ‘Is this a dagger I see before me?’
@ SA August 13, 2018 at 20:40
I live next door to the Tower; though I am not a bloodthirsty creature under normal circs, I must admit I would love to see Vatson dragged through Traitors Gate. Just sayin’….
Zero chance would step down to appease them and zero chance of someone like Watson ever being elected Labour leader again. Keep up.
@ Carl August 13, 2018 at 20:44
Vatson may not be elcted leader of the British Labour Party, but he could be crowned head of the Zio 5th Column, or even get a position in Aipac in the States. Raise you sights, Vatson.
Paul
There is too much concentration of Watson, whose main function is regicide, he did that before for Brown. But the one to watch is Ed Balls/Yvette Cooper double act.
About to?
They’ve been at this game for nearly three years now.
Jeremy Corbyn is fighting back. Thank goodness.
@jeremycorbyn
Israeli PM @Netanyahu’s claims about my actions and words are false.
What deserves unequivocal condemnation is the killing of over 160 Palestinian protesters in Gaza by Israeli forces since March, including dozens of children.
Benjamin Netanyahu
@netanyahu
The laying of a wreath by Jeremy Corbyn on the graves of the terrorist who perpetrated the Munich massacre and his comparison of Israel to the Nazis deserves unequivocal condemnation from everyone – left, right and everything in between.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1029075065550372864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etwitterkit
“Jeremy Corbyn is fighting back. Thank goodness.”
Seconded.
@ Sharp Ears August 13, 2018 at 20:44
Thirded!
JC ain’t no p^ssy!
@ Sharp Ears August 13, 2018 at 20:44
I’m not on ‘twatter’, but, Gee wiz, Natz, gee’ us an update on the I^raeli murderous attack on the virtually unarmed USS Liberty.
Come on Natz, be a sport.
And Natz, while we’re ‘at it’, wot ya got ta say re: ‘IT’S A TRICK, WE ALWAYS USE IT says former ISRAELI MINISTER’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LZNXNVL1G8
Cat got your tongue, Natz? And remember, remember, the King David Hotel. And the Lavon affair. And (well, you know the rest).
If anyone is on ‘Twatter’, please feel free to pose these questions to Natz.
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/25/double-negative-trump-putin-and-the-destruction-of-political-intelligence/
Overall this is pretty dia, aside from the last 1/4.
So it’s now just taken as fact about Russia? On that load of talk.? …& How they uncritically post that lee guy. …& the insinuation that maybe Julian didn’t know it was Russian? When he categorically stated it wasn’t & Craig backs the same proposition? …That implies the source is known.
And now the intercept platforms these people? When julian can’t respond to anything?
How do you know that JA has no knowledge of what is going on Ishmael?
Didn’t say he didn’t. Though don’t know how much he does now, His exact situation. But he has no response platform.
Benjy, the Israeli state, the official only jewish state, directly attacking JC, a third state politician. Interfering in a foreign country!
The BBC radio news right now backing it up while a a jezza defender is claiming that the photo in the mail has been doctored. The intrviwer ignores it and claims that the Mail is being accused of antisemetism.
Ridiculous. Every attack falls to bits as soon as it leaves their gun!
Lol.
I see, at last, some concrete evidence of anti-semitism, and not involving the Labour Party in any way shape or form.:
https://sputniknews.com/world/201808131067161154-israeli-students-naked-dances-nazi-death-camp/
The horror, the horror…
Erm…. where’s craig?
Time off for rest perhaps? Considering his previous remarks.
Imagine it can really take it out of you. Nobody should feel or be that important that they feel they can’t step back imo, not exactly the world we live in & not healthy to the extent it isn’t.,.
I don’t begrudge him time off I was just a bit worried for the old fella
Shin Bet overdo the grilling of a J.wish American reporter arrange ving at Been Gurion airport.*
Under Netanyahu, the Israelis are in danger of imploding and coming to a grinding halt.
Liberal Jewish-American reporter detained & questioned in Israel about his political beliefs
https://www.rt.com/news/435867-peter-beinart-israel-detained/
________
Peter Beinart
✔
@PeterBeinart
Benjamin Netanyahu has half-apologized for my detention yesterday at Ben Gurion airport. I’ll accept when he apologizes to all the Palestinians and Palestinian-Americans who every day endure far worse https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-beinart-i-was-detained-at-ben-gurion-airport-over-political-activity-1.6381149
6:31 PM – Aug 13, 2018
_________
* I have noticed that the BBC drop in little items of general knowledge relating to Israel. Woman’s Hour with Jenni Murray is a favourite vehicle for this. On a BBC1 quiz show today, Impossible, one of the questions was:
Which Israeli Airport is named after a former Israeli PM?
1 Ariel Sharon
2 Ben Gurion
3…( Can’t remember the choice given)
Then tonight, there was a harrowing hour long ‘Who Do You Think You Are’ with the barrister Robert Rinder, some of whose maternal ancestors were either killed in the Holocaust or survived it. In Poland. Germany. Latvia. etc. One of them had the first name ‘Israel’. His grandfather came to England after the war to Windermere with 1,000 other boys. Rinder’s paternal ncestry was not included.
A while back there was a Who Do You Think You Are with BoJo. Despite outward appearances, he is in fact of Turkish and Russian extraction and the family changed their surname to Johnson relatively recently. Before that it was Kemal. His male line came to the UK as political refugees in the early 20c.