UPDATE
I am prepared to acknowledge that, given the gate design, they could have passed through different gates in exact synchronicity and this may be a red herring. I am leaving this post up here as it is good to acknowledge mistakes. Please read my updated post Skripals – The Mystery Deepens
Russia has developed an astonishing new technology enabling its secret agents to occupy precisely the same space at precisely the same time.
These CCTV images released by Scotland yard today allegedly show Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov both occupying exactly the same space at Gatwick airport at precisely the same second. 16.22.43 on 2 March 2018. Note neither photo shows the other following less than a second behind.
There is no physically possible explanation for this. You can see ten yards behind each of them, and neither has anybody behind for at least ten yards. Yet they were both photographed in the same spot at the same second.
The only possible explanations are:
1) One of the two is travelling faster than Usain Bolt can sprint
2) Scotland Yard has issued doctored CCTV images/timeline.
I am going with the Met issuing doctored images.
UPDATE
A number of people have pointed out a third logical possibility, that the photographs are not of the same place and they are coming through different though completely identical entry channels. The problem with that is the extreme synchronicity. You can see from the photos that the channel(s) are enclosed and quite long, and they would have had to enter different entrances to the channels. So it is remarkable they were at exactly the same point at the same time. Especially as one of them appears to be holding (wheeled?) luggage and one has only a shoulder bag.
I have traveled through Gatwick many times but cannot call to mind precisely where they are. Can anybody pinpoint the precise place in the airport? Before or after passport control? Before or after baggage collection? Before or after customs? The only part of the airport this looks like to me is shortly after leaving the plane after the bridge, and before joining the main gangway to passport control – in which case passengers are not split into separated channels at the stage this was taken. I can’t recall any close corridors as long as this after passport control. But I am open to correction.
Please read my updated post Skripals – The Mystery Deepens
Follow the indicators on this story. Hardly any daily online ‘paper’ is open for comments on these matters. The ‘Independent’-usually the most open-has 6 headlines. Only 2 are open for comments, and criticism is being deleted. While the troll idiots are left alone, plastering everyone else as ‘Vladimir’.
There is some difference in the metal control gates to the right and left of the subjects – the gates are in different positions. But oddly, if you flip one of the images, they then seem to be identical.
I agree with you. Same place same time is impossible. And this does seem to be the same place. But maybe different times, different days even, or the time stamp has been altered for some reason and one of the images flipped.
It’s very odd.
The elephant in the room is if these people were seen in Salisbury, Gatwick & Heathrow and weren’t from Russia and aren’t Spies and haven’t passed through other countries then why haven’t they been identified here in the UK or by an international security service?
Give it time….;)
You seem to be implying that the camera is the same one and has not moved and that one of the Russia has has been photoshopped into the picture but if you look carefully you can see that the camera is in a slightly different position re the corridor. The edges of the wall panels are positioned slightly differently re the timer and the word PAUSE. I think these are two identical corridors or different cameras in the same one.
Just as a light aside, I was reading the latest reports yesterday and came across one which said the men were tracked by the Met police “super recognisers” unit on CCTV. There was a link to a test by a university to see if you could super recognise people. There were 14 or so questions and I had a go. By the time I got to number 11, I was getting creeped out, it seemed easy the matches were so obvious.. I stopped at that point and left the rest and checked the answers so far and I had them all correct.
Now the test may have been a fix, probably was as I don’t think I have a particularly good memory for faces, although I am very observant and can draw good likenesses. But so can many people. I prefer to think it was a super easy test. Last thing I want at my age is to find I have a super-power. The use of the Met police super recognisers unit in this context is interesting.
Not so good at recognising CIA/MI5 “accessories” before they blow up trains or crash cars though…….and no cognition of Black on Black Crime in London. Very esoteric skillset they have developed in Super Sleuths who cannot sniff out gangster hot money flowing into London
This poundshop false flag pish doesn’t even make it onto the top ten articles on the Irish Times site. Treeza’s administration and the inbred security services propping it up are the laughing stock of Europe.
There are multiple lanes, so if they were travelling together and went through at the same time in different lanes, it is possible.
In fact you can see that it is different lanes as pic1 has a dark bit in the top left corner and pic2 does not, so the cameras in the lanes are angled slightly differently.
And both lanes had no other passengers visible. At exactly the same time.
Was this plane empty apart from the VIP GRU passengers?
You mean they both arrived, at different gates, at exactly the same point in time. WOW.
You only split up for a few seconds as you walk through the gate. If you are walking together to the gates, then pass through parallel gates, and meet up at the other end, then you will be passing through the gates at the same time. It’s not rocket science. It only takes a few seconds to walk through.
That it is so unlikely is surely more interesting than it being true. In a case of multiplying improbabilities a strange kind of international synchrony emerges, a ballet of straight jacketed fools bumping silently into each other. No imploring eyes, just dull anger. We wonder only that so many are so very incurious.
In a world where lethal children have sacrificed the sacred to build an alter to the rational, they who cannot worship have become incurious, thumbs twitch, minds dance, nothing much happens.
Norway is killing Blue Whales again, elephants are quietly extinguished, the air burns, America poisons it’s garden until 60% have chronic disease and their life expectancy plummets. Will we ever turn away?
The powerful have clubs for hands, beating each other to death with every caress in their cave of luxuries.
A poetry of eloquent brutality reigns, ineffable imagery choreographed by bathos. The theatre of the absurd no longer revels. Alex stares, lobotomised by the horror, at a dead sunflower.
All so very incurious.
Like the WMD made up fairy story a lie from start to finish
It’s quite funny really. Not so long ago, almost everyone on here was saying that this was all a false flag intended to whip up hatred against Russia, that MI5 was responsible, and, because the while story was obviously unbelievable, the UK authorities would let the story die a quick death; we should hear nothing more about it and there would be no more mention of “ongoing investigations” . In other words, the objective of the “false flag” having been realised, we should hear nothing more about the affair.
And now, the investigation having proceeded, we do hear more about the story and this in some detail. Great confusion and anger in the ranks of the false flaggers and conspiracy theorists, who “do not like it up ’em”.
This probably explains why there have been over 700 comments in less than 24 hours, most of which seek to discredit the latest findings which have been released – which, of course, is what one would expect from the great vocalists of recent weeks.
we haven’t heard any solid evidence. funny you just paper over that with “we hear more about the story and in some detail”. still haven’t even provided solid evidence of what the substance was, but we are just supposed to believe it because may said it.
I suspect that no evidence would ever be solid enough for the likes of you.
Charles Bostock, is you believe the garbage the UK gov and agencies are putting.. out,, you must be a deadbeat without a brain, and certainly not thinking with your brain or the other end.. some mothers do have em….. POOR YOU.. laughing from Australia thought USA were the dumbest but you take the cake
Well, no, just something that isn’t, effectively, hearsay. I mean those two men could be any two men going through an airport.
BAYARD>
Perhaps these two men going through the airport might want to come forward to prevent themselves being arrested in the EU?
What would convince you that Russia was involved? Be careful what you post as I too will claim it could be fabricated.
“What would convince you that Russia was involved?”
Some evidence from someone other than the British security services. The problem with this whole story is that you either have to believe the whole official story, with all its contradictions, convenient coincidences and improbabilities, or you can, logically, believe none of it. Once you accept that a single element of the official narrative is fabricated, then this casts doubt on the entire narrative. It is not a logical position to accept only parts of the official narrative.
“Perhaps these two men going through the airport might want to come forward to prevent themselves being arrested in the EU?”
Who is going to arrest them? If they really are the perpetrators, then they are going to avoid arrest as far as they can. If they are not the perpetrators, but patskis, then what use would it be to them to protest their innocence?
CB enjoys consuming garbage without question; particularly that deposited by ‘the authorities’.
Pretzelattack>
What would convince you that Russia was involved. Be careful what you post as I too will claim it could be fabricated.
Past experience and the lack of any discernible motive makes it sensible to assume this is another false flag.
Not really, this story seems to flare up at the most opportune times.
Still have no evidence yet. Almost certainly this is a concoction of Western intelligence agencies.
The Russians are waiting to receive full biometric passport/visa data.
The Russians will have the full details from there point of exit.
What would convince you that Russia was involved? Be careful what you post as I too will claim it could be fabricated.
Are these camera’s static or can the move up & down? It seems to me the same corridor but the photo’s are from slightly different angles. I would also say the first photo the guy slightly more advanced in the corridor than the 2nd.
John Helmer has very good contacts in Russia so his article is either a hint at the truth or some well planted disinformation.
http://johnhelmer.net/the-new-allegations-in-the-skripal-case-and-the-standard-of-proof/#more-19679
It has been speculated that Skripal was involved in the Trump dossier, given his close relation to Steele and his handler now subject to a D notice it is highly likely. It is thus possible that the GRU might have had a new interest in him. Like Berezovsky and his oddly timed suicide they wouldn’t have wanted him to go back to Russia and tell all.
A high profile way of attempting to kill him though, still suggests a false flag motivation.
for what it’s worth, hazy background of the two men
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/09/05/russian-journalists-dig-up-information-about-the-secret-agents-who-allegedly-carried-out-the-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack
From a site that is very anti-Kremlin you moght add just as a background.
Altetnative A. The Russian intelligence services are brazen and don’t bother to take any precautions against this pair of hit men being spotted together, ie separate entry to UK, separate travel, diguises etc.
Alternative B. The Russian intelligence services are completely incompetent, rest as alternative A.
Altetnative C. They were here to meet one or both of the Skripals and/or keep an eye on Julia.
They found Novichok in the hotel room, of course. Timing of this revelation, as with everything in this affair, is everything.
This means of course that consistent with other UK governmental actions in Salisbury, the hotel in question will have to be demolished. Perhaps the international arrivals at Gatwick and the terminal at Heathrow also. Where oh where will it end?
Well, the camera angles in the two photos are different.
The top one has a dark bar across the top left.
That would indicate they are taken at different times
were the images taken from same camera. Should be easy to find out ( in a Free State anyway )
Even the photos of them on a road with double yellow lines look dodgy. I would take everything said by intelligence services with a pinch of salt given their blatant lies concerning murders etc in N. Ireland over the years.
There’s no great consiracy here.
Two cameras in two places parrallel to each other.
I think these are those glass partitions with a door either end. I’ve never understood the point of them, but there are four or five separate doors (and channels) and a distance of around 15ft to walk through.
The cameras are clearly not in the same place in both shots (unless it’s tracking someone). I think it’s entirely possible that they they arrived at this place together, went through two separate channels and were filmed at exactly the same time in what looks like the same place.
http://assets.gunnebo.com/PublishingImages/PasSec-walking2.jpg
No other passengers in either channel at exactly the same time? Was the plane empty?
According to “GRU Agent”, who comments on BlogMire
(here : https://www.theblogmire.com/open-thread-on-the-new-opcw-report-and-any-other-business/#comment-10520 )
the identical time stamps, allegedly on two distinct CCTV, have the same pixel composition and this, according to him, is impossible.
For the identical pixel composition, he refers to :
https://imgur.com/a/hPHv27w
Another commenter, Cascadian, confirms :
“The camera’s image is derived from some form of CCD (Charge Coupled Device) image sensor. These sensors are created by depositions of impurities on onto a slice taken from a semi-conductor ingot. So the precise alignment of the individual pixels (and they are not pixels, yet) is subject to variation. Added to that is the way that the image is generated, the timestamp numerals are either projected onto the sensor (in which case perfect alignment is most definitely impossible) or internally generated by the processor and merged with the image, perfect alignment again being impossible or at best very unlikely.”
I can only quote them, because I don’t know this matter.
All that talk about CCDs is absolute nonsense to lull non-technical people into thinking someone knows what he is talking about and stop thinking for themselves.
The time stamp is obviously painted over the image data when the image is already in digital form, be it inside the camera or on the computer storing the data. And when a time stamp is painted on a digital image, the coordinates and the pixels will obviously be identical, given that they probably use the same camera model and/or recording devices.
I would not be so quick to dismiss this. There are digital ‘aberrations’ (extraneous pixels etc) visible in both timestamps which seems to indicate that they have both come from the exact same source. As I am no expert on CCTV I can not say if this is possibly generated by the equipment but it seems (from my perspective) to be more likely the result of a cut/paste operation in photo edit software.
I think there was a quantum shift in timespace when the pictures were recorded. They can’t both be in the same frame at the same time and contrary to other comments on this same article they don’t look like different passages, they look absolutely the same (how could there be images of different people in precisely the same position in identical passgeways at the same second)….I call BS!!!!. Positions of the hand rails on the walls are identical. I just think there was an error in the continuity of this wretched Governments BS, as there has been with this whole false flag debacle, sadly expected from this wretched lying Tory Government.
If you arrive at the set of four gates together (as you would if travelling together), and walk through the parallel gates together, why wouldn’t you be passing through at the same time? It only takes about 5 seconds to walk through them!
There are umpteen gates at Gatwick. Imagine you are walking together and you split off down 2 passageways, the likelihood is that you will maintain the speed of your gait and emerge at the other end precisely together. Also the cameras are in slightly different positions, this isn’t the same camera. The angle is different, the lighting is different, position of the barriers different, it’s quite obviously different.
Also if the Met are doctoring and releasing pictures in the manner by which you suggest, why would they make such a stupid mistake given all the other lengths they’ve apparemtly gone to, to get to this stage?
Explanation (??)
These are both SCREEN SHOTS by the Met and the time on both shots refers to when the screen shots were saved (Note PAUSE on bottom RHS of image).
I’m not sure that a sceptical Mr Murray has quite got it right!
It looks like the same person with picture flipped and some detail added and removed, hence the blurring, but same nose, build and motion. And the two on the front page of Daily Mail are even more blurred.
Added to that, were they the only 2 on the flight? Were they the only ones on their way out of the terminal?
Looking at that you could be excused for thinking, that the terminal was only open for 1 second, and specifically for those 2 to come through furing that second…. wherryhell IS everybody else?
There’s identical shadowing at the top of each page at the door entrance too
The original discrepancy in the data presented was the fact that the same time
to the second
is presented on the the two images. One possible suggestion is that this
was due to the two people walking down two different parallel corridors
at the same speed having been walking alongside before entering.
The fact that the North Terminal at Gatwick has parallel exit corridors
with their own cctv cameras is given in support of this.
As against that there is the following:
Meta data on the images released by met police
file CO1416-18-CCTV2
Thursday, 3 May 2018 13:46
692 x 366
file CO1416-2018-CCTV1
Thursday, 3 May 2018 18:43
695 x 363
So what was released was a pair of files produced by editing software
on the 3rd May not the date shown. This by itself could be perfectly
innocent, that just being the date at which screenshots were taken. But
that does show that there was some editing which at least adjusted the image
size. The question is how much editing.
If the images are from two different cameras of the same type,
looking down corridors of identical construction, tthen there could be a translation
or shift due to slight differences in positioning of the cameras,
However the most significant changes seem to be ones that can be compensated
for by rotation and mirroring as seen here https://postimg.cc/image/x1ixk7r4x/
It is possible that the gain from mirroring is spurious, due to the two
sides of each corridor being mirror images. What would be surprising would be
if the cameras had been rotated in the way shown. A pan tilt camera system does
not have the ability to rotate the cameras to produce this sort of effect.
I measure it as an 11 degree rotation between the two views around an axis
centered on the faces of the two subjects.
If we suppose that the two cameras track the subjects via pan and tilt and
take images when they are in the same position as they go through the
passage, then where does the rotational error arise?
Concievably they have been screwed in loosely to their mounting brackets
but google images of the cameras show them to be in inverted domes about
10 cm accross. To have a tilt of this order the right side of one of the
domes would have to be down by about 2 cm, far more than could plausibly
be accounted for by sloppy fitting.
The alternative is that the rotation was done in the post processing when
the images were prepared on the 3 May and that the apparent time stamps
( which are pixel by pixel identical ) were added at that point.
It is not clear what the motivation for such post processing would be,
but it is evidence that the released photos are in several ways the result
of modification.
What good is CCTV, if the display doesn’t show the ID and location of the camera feed, image is cropped to cut this information out. Why not simply redact or blur, sensitive security information and leave camera ID code within the frame.
There’s something very wrong with that bridge photo. The parker wearing elderly person just doesn’t fit and appears to have been added to mask someone’s head, or it has been added along with the two GRU guys to what was the image of an empty bridge.
Take a long hard look at the spacial relationship between the three figures, try and visualise the full uncropped image, even accounting for camera angle and perspective the grey haired oldie is either a giant, standing on a box or walking around Salisbury on stilts. Look closer still and it appears the image of the oldie has been taken from a much lower camera angle than the suspects. Either way the figures are not contemporaneous. Of course there may be an valid reason for the addition, such as not wanting to broadcast an innocent person’s face or wanting to blur that face creating further suspicion as a result.
https://image.ibb.co/hbKZVK/Untitled_1.jpg
Look, even if we accept the cctv evidence of the men at the airport has been doctored , it is still a side issue. I assume their names are on the flight manifests and the shots of them in Salisbury are true, so who are they and what were they doing in Salisbury that weekend? If they were merely innocent tourists it should be easy enough to prove.
There are reports saying security services know their real identities.If so,I suspect this release is just to rattle the Russians. I wonder what their response will be. Perhaps some of the Russian trolls currently !urking here can give us a steer?
On looking at the tunnels.
I believe these are the exit tunnels, after customs, just prior to entering the main concourse.
To my recollection, there are three.
You can see through the glass to the other tunnels ~ the angle of photos makes the walls appear opaque, they are not.
It wouldn’t be inconceivable for two people who are travelling together to be caught on camera at the same second in this arrangement.
You might expect them to be holding hands just prior to entering these corridors.
Are country Britian ,sells arms to isreal and Saudi Arabia (just picked them two ) ,their fighting wars , Russia sells arms to Iran ,Syria (just picked them two )their fighting wars ,whos the more righteous country ? I know this much m i 5 , k g b , c I a , mossad ,are all the same .