UPDATE
I am prepared to acknowledge that, given the gate design, they could have passed through different gates in exact synchronicity and this may be a red herring. I am leaving this post up here as it is good to acknowledge mistakes. Please read my updated post Skripals – The Mystery Deepens
Russia has developed an astonishing new technology enabling its secret agents to occupy precisely the same space at precisely the same time.
These CCTV images released by Scotland yard today allegedly show Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov both occupying exactly the same space at Gatwick airport at precisely the same second. 16.22.43 on 2 March 2018. Note neither photo shows the other following less than a second behind.
There is no physically possible explanation for this. You can see ten yards behind each of them, and neither has anybody behind for at least ten yards. Yet they were both photographed in the same spot at the same second.
The only possible explanations are:
1) One of the two is travelling faster than Usain Bolt can sprint
2) Scotland Yard has issued doctored CCTV images/timeline.
I am going with the Met issuing doctored images.
UPDATE
A number of people have pointed out a third logical possibility, that the photographs are not of the same place and they are coming through different though completely identical entry channels. The problem with that is the extreme synchronicity. You can see from the photos that the channel(s) are enclosed and quite long, and they would have had to enter different entrances to the channels. So it is remarkable they were at exactly the same point at the same time. Especially as one of them appears to be holding (wheeled?) luggage and one has only a shoulder bag.
I have traveled through Gatwick many times but cannot call to mind precisely where they are. Can anybody pinpoint the precise place in the airport? Before or after passport control? Before or after baggage collection? Before or after customs? The only part of the airport this looks like to me is shortly after leaving the plane after the bridge, and before joining the main gangway to passport control – in which case passengers are not split into separated channels at the stage this was taken. I can’t recall any close corridors as long as this after passport control. But I am open to correction.
Please read my updated post Skripals – The Mystery Deepens
A fourth possibility would be that the timeline was frozen at the moment the photos have been captured…
Maybe it was arranged by Boris Johnson’s tennis partner (the Russian lady who donated £130.000 +). I read in a report today that the Russians have asked the British government for the passport nos of the two suspects but this has been refused and of course were also refused any offer of help when the original incident took place. I don’t trust Mrs May at all. All of this along with the “false flag”, soon to be happening, chemical attack in Syria, it is becoming so predictable. Is there anyone out there that actually still believes the trash they are peddling. It is quite possible that there could be Russian citizens involved but just as the Mafia are mainly Italian, that alone does not make the Italian government responsible for all of their actions!
@ Tom Graham September 6, 2018 at 16:44
What conceivable reason (other than pure cussedness) could HMG have for given the Russians the passport numbers?
HMG, along with NATO, are playing a filthy warmongering ‘game’. We cannot believe a word they say.
But, on the other hand, Russia should know who was on that flight into Gatwick, so they should be able to trace them, if they were actually on the plane, even if only by a process of elimination (whoops!).
O/T – another massive quake: ‘Magnitude 8.1 Quake Hits 123 Km South-East of Fiji – USGS’:
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201809061067809780-quake-magnitude-usgs/?
Whoops…ha ha That might be your last words Paul.
No it looks like they are diffferent but near identical places. The camera is not trained in exactly the same place. So there’s a bit more space between the gates and the bottom of the picture for example.
These kind of gates are common in Gatwick where they allow passage only way for one person at a time.
I mean there’s material to make conspiracy theories out of and then there’s this!
Is the base photo just flipped vertically? Look at the angle of the gates.
You are right this is rigid. Fake
What the faf do they want a war with Russia fake news fake photos what the faf do you expect from a fake prime minister clutching at any thing to take your mined of what. She is doing to the contrary. she is full of poo. There was no Novak all bull to get you mine of the fact she is braking great Britain’s back and the way she is going Britain. May never recover from this disaster
Yep, my thoughts exactly.
@ Mark September 6, 2018 at 16:53
There was a google clip much earlier in the comments showing a number, three or four, people going through one if the channels at the same time, with other people just behind them.
Having travelled through Gatwick many many times I have never come across anywhere in the airport that single passengers r made to walk through either on entry r an exit like this. Obviously a set up.
So these gates are just past the duty free shop after customs nothing to declare in the North Terminal .
They exist .
the lower image is merely just a zoom ,it is same walkway
Hi Craig,
I have been interested to read your postings on this case as I do not feel we are given the full picture, and there are anomalies and gaps that need filling. I have been gripped by the incident since it happened, and like any good mystery (albeit tragic) I want to know whodunnit. I there look to other sources to try and help build a more objective picture. RT I’m afraid I find distasteful in it’s shameless attempt to ridicule and undermine in a blatant manner, seemingly uncaring of the individuals innocently caught up in this. However the hasty attempt on your part to draw conclusions from these CCTV images that they have been doctored betrays a bias and over eagerness to see conspiracy, which on closer inspection may be erroneous. Pause for thought?
Regards,
John
@ John Keane September 6, 2018 at 16:54
‘…RT I’m afraid I find distasteful in it’s shameless attempt to ridicule and undermine in a blatant manner, seemingly uncaring of the individuals innocently caught up in this…’
If the Russians know that the whole thing is a put-up job, why on earth should they behave otherwise?
Why has Sergei not phoned his mother, something he regularly did before the ‘incident’? Does he suspect his 90-odd year old mother was mixed up in it?
And why did HMG refuse a relative’s request for a visa, to visit Sergei and Yulia? Sergei’s mother has applied (or is in the process of applying); if already applied for, what is the delay? The mother wants to see her son before she dies. How is HMG going to refuse that? I am fully aware they have no compassion, but the world, including the British public, will look on such a refusal with absolute disgust, and the party of Cons can lick their wounds in the boonies at the next elections.
43 and 48 is not less than a second behind
Both say 43. You must be looking at the 8 at the end of the year.
You need new glasses. Both frames say 43.
An odd aspect is the flight was a very unusual one. That route number last flew on the date in question:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL2588
‘Aeroflot 2588
AFL2588 / SU2588
Upgrade account to see tail number
ARRIVED OVER 5 MONTHS AGO
Terminal N’
I emailed Aeroflot – perhaps they will explain the unusualness of that flight.
Aeroflot cancelled this flight. 24 of march was the last date.
https://polet.me/8248/
You can use google translate
Are we to assume that MI5 are able to seamlessly photoshop two agents’ images into two copies of a single image of an empty corridor with the same pre-existing timestamp but are neither technically competent to digitally alter the image of the time-stamp nor sufficiently observant to note that the time-stamp is identical on both images?
The two images do appear different and not just with regard to the subject imaged – there is a smudge or mark under the 8 in the timestamp in one image, that whould probably (the POV or crops of the two image makes it difficult to be certain) suggest the two men were proceeding down two corridors of the same design (such lack of imagination in the interior designers employed on government projects). That they were imaged at the same time (to the second) and location is problematic of course. I have insufficient direct experience of that facility to draw a conclusion.
Of course, the other possibility is that we are looking at two images supplied not directly by our government but indirectly and via the Russian government, whose own intelligence agencies have used photoshop techniques to sow mis/disinformation, cloud the issue, and provide grist to the mill of Western conspiracy theorists and GRU/FSB counter-intelligence agents. It could of course be a deliberate ploy by the British intel agencies, but to determine a motive for such an act requires swallowing the red pill and consulting the White Rabbit…
Which is exactly the effect that appears to be being created.
“Are we to assume that MI5 are able to seamlessly photoshop two agents’ images into two copies of a single image of an empty corridor with the same pre-existing timestamp but are neither technically competent to digitally alter the image of the time-stamp nor sufficiently observant to note that the time-stamp is identical on both images?”
Yes, we can assume exactly that. Later, people would ask:
“Are we to assume that MI5 are able to seamlessly photoshop two agents’ images into two copies of a single image of an empty corridor with the same pre-existing timestamp but are neither technically competent to digitally alter the image of the time-stamp nor sufficiently observant to note that the time-stamp is identical on both images?”
There are four of these anti walk back gates in a row.
Sorry to take your theory apart. They are made by the manufacturer KABA and are in place in numerous airports. It is perfectly possible for both men to have walked through parallel gates at the same time.
No it is not. Two planes arrived, and deplaned (simultaneously!) and two people who happen to know each other step up to the same place on the jetway synced to the second?! No chance.
“It is perfectly possible for both men to have walked through parallel gates at the same time.”
Possible, but extremely unlikely that they would be photographed at precisely the same time. Too much of a coincidence.
@ Garth Carthy September 6, 2018 at 17:22
I have already covered that – one would have been processed, and waited till the other one was also processed, then they exited together. But why the obvious tampering with the pictures?
The identical channels are each watched over by their own centred CCTV, so the ‘angles’ don’t make sense short of photoshopping.
A number of photos have shown these paralell channels with their dedicated overhead circular black CCTV cameras. they would not need to move, as each has a complete view of most of it’s dedicated channel, absolutely enough to capture CCTV of anyone walking through, or even a mouse. That is their function. someone has messed with the original CCTV images, that’s obvious.
Why is not obvious, but can hardly be benign.
Why do you suggest the camera moved? Seemsmuch more likely that the cameras in adjacent lanes are simply fixed at slightly different angles.
And anyone who has walked up to these gates with a companion knows that you will naturally emerge at the same time as your friend if you are both walking together in the approach. It only takes seconds to pass through.
These are definitely not taken by the same camera. Look at where the camera is in relation to the corridor. In the upper picture where Petrov is arriving, the camera is slightly angled as the open doors behind him (I think thats what they are) are not vertical, where as in the lower one the doors are vertical, implying that the camera used to take the upper image wasn’t aligned quite correctly.
That still doesn’t mean that the images weren’t doctored of course
No chance. This is doctored. Let’s say that it is two planes. They managed to end up in the exact same place on seperate jetways, after being deplaned simultaneously?! No. That is astronomically not likely. The exact same spot? How?! I’m pulling these in to GIMP to see how similar the jetways are…..
Chad, is it necessary to assume that they came with two different planes ? Is it impossible that they came with the same plane but that they used two different control gates ?
@ Chad September 6, 2018 at 17:18
Where does the two-plane information come from?
They were said to have both been on Aeroflot SU 2588.
They weren’t on separate planes. They would have been walking side by side a few seconds before these photos were taken.
I’m going with two different routes and two different cameras, at the same time. Note the top left corner in one photograph and different mottling (possibly dirt or dust on lens).
Simple minds are easily fooled by the second counter. The two gentlemen seem to be in the same position, possibly centimeters apart. Hence they are not synchronised in the time frame of one second but most likely in time frame of tens of milliseconds. Very probable indeed. Not even dancers trying to be synchronised in their movements cannot manage such a feat.
Can we be sure the tunnel is at the airport?
Could the tunnel be a mock up?
O.K. so it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory but can it be ruled out?
@ Garth Carthy September 6, 2018 at 17:27
A number of photos of the four identical parallel channels have been linked to on these comments, no need to ‘mock them up’.
upper part of the pictures, as well as the position of the ‘small gates’ are different. probably just different passages and great timing.
Study the juxtaposition of the (moveable?) barriers either side of both men. Those either side of the man in the darker jacket are more or less positioned at the same point on either side of the passageway. Those either side of the man in the lighter (blue) jacket are visibly staggered. Careful examination reveals that the “fixed “camera position is different in each exit channel. Someone needs to clean ones spectacles perhaps? This article takes the dreamworld of the conspiracy theorists to a rather ridiculous level. The photographs of the two agents in the vicinity of the Salisbury and Amesbury incidents will obviously have been carefully inspected for evidence of doctoring by any number of the nations that have just endorsed our (UK) findings at the UN. One does not have to be a supporter of this May led government to concur with the findings of it’s employees. Good try Craig but no cigar.
Why do you try to hide the lower right corner with the text MET POLICE? well the photos are here: http://news.met.police.uk/latest_media if anyone wants to know…
Or the spies arrived on two different dates alone and somebody hacked the date timestamp to be the same just to confuse the investigators knowing that they will be monitored. Maybe they arrived separately on 3rd Feb and 2nd March and they only had to hack the date format ☺
it’s the same place only the angle of the camera changed. on the photo’s in the bottom right corner we can see an orange triangle under the “met police” stamp. You can still see the side of the orange triangle on the top photo. on the bottom photo we see the top of the same triangle.
Good to pick up this kind of detail but look at the photos one after the other, the camera angle is slightly different , l;look at top of frame and rail positions on wall, red poster bottom right. It is at least possible that this is near identical corridors running parallel.
Maybe they did not want to go through the same channel in case some observant customs officer noted near identical passport numbers, or just not to be associated together. The to the second synchronicity still seems a little odd.
Both photos WERE edited ( using Window Photo Editor 10.0 ) and originally created on May 3rd 2018 at a few hours apart and changed since.
So one thing is clear the police have been on to these two suspects since early May.
If I am sanding in the same room as someone, staring them dead in the eye, we will have to make some effort to snap our fingers at the same time. Whether the corridors are the same is irrelevant. They are doctored images. Is anyone else starting to feel crushed by the weight of filthy lying deceitful bastards? We need to make being a public servant a sacred duty….Lying to the public, betraying the public trust, these sort of crimes… about time they had some terminal gravitas.
From a friend…..I can pinpoint that spot exactly – I’m fairly sure it’s the exit from baggage reclaim into the North Terminal which does indeed have two identical parallel channels just like this.
Doesn’t explain the exact time
@ Tony Grahame September 6, 2018 at 18:25
https://twitter.com/bleidl/status/1037540166020280320
This and similar pics have been linked to a number of times, but for those who haven’t seen it, it explains the layout ver well, with each channel having it’s identical centre-located CCTV camera overhead the exit to each channel. Angles and anomolies = chicanery.
There is a much simpler and probable explanation which I do not think has been mentioned. They are indeed different gates but the times have been doctored to be the same. Why? Simple. To discredit Craig Murray. I suspect that Craig did not spot this himself but that someone pointed it out to him. If so, that individual needs examining in depth to see what connections he / she has with the police/ security services / Tory Party etc.
All so they can point out that this is another of his conspiracy theories which is proveably false. Over to you, Craig
The cctv cameras seem to be in different positions in each of the photos as well.
Kudos Mr Murray for spotting arguments against your original view. It’s in recognizing one’s mistakes that one ups one’s game and becomes sharper.
Essential qualities when taking a position against the government’s view and journos who are these days no more than stenographers.
@ Kurtz September 6, 2018 at 18:40
‘The cctv cameras seem to be in different positions in each of the photos as well…’
They are not, though, as you can see in my link above.
The reason the angles etc are different is because the photos have been doctored.
You can see for yourself, the immovable cameras are in precisely the same psoitions over the exit of each channel, and the channels are identical, so no rogue angles without chicanery.
It’s always fun to come up with a conspiracy theory, and I for one would not put it past any secret service in the world (including the British) to doctor a photograph if it suited their ends, but this is far less of a mystery than it seems.
It’s almost as much fun playing a little game of ‘spot the difference’ by comparing the two security channels. If they were, as the person who posted this originally suggests, manipulated into the same frame, at the same time, you’d expect the two frames, bar for the individuals in them, to be identical. They are far from. I’ve immediately spotted seven differences, and I hardly spent as many minutes looking at the picture. I’d be happy to bet there are more.
So although this explanation is far less exciting, it is by some margin more likely to be: two different security channels (it’s an international airport; there would have to be several near-identical channels built to identical specifications to cope with passenger numbers), two camera recordings paused at the same time code (the giveaway here is the word PAUSE in both frames), and then true: you still have no proof that these are two Russian agents. But you have a perfectly plausible explanation why two individuals with little or no luggage arriving on the same flight, going through two separate channels should be in almost exactly the same spot in relation to the camera at almost exactly the same time…
You’re welcome. 🙂
Has anyone considered the possibility of identical twins?
@ Mike September 6, 2018 at 18:56
Or CCTV image manipulation? Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the best, especially when we are dealing with ‘Security Services’ and police who have form for just that.
These are the automated gate-opening channels. There are, I think, about four of them side by side. The entrance to all four is common and wide open. Then there are four doors into four channels, with a flip gate at the entry point and a flip gate at the exit. They flick open really quickly; you’ll remember them. They’re just after baggage collection. It only takes a second or two to walk through them. If the two were together, one would use one channel, the other would use a different channel, and it is entirely feasible for them to be there at the same time. Also look more closely at the two photos. There is evidence that they are not taken with the same camera: the angle, the position of the date/time relative to the image, the dirt on the lens etc.
Its the same person. The Image has been flipped, but same nose, build and motion.
Ok… they are from moving images paused at the same time!
So they went through separate gates around the same time… It just the operator selected the same time frame.
Notice in the bottom right of the screen ‘PAUSE’
with the fact the of 4 tunnels and the slight differences in camera angles, we have to accept that the two men walked down different channels. It is amazing that they walked in sync to the exact second but not impossible. The other possibility is that the exact same timestamp was deliberately given to wind up those who are sceptical about the rest of the account.
We cant even be sure about anything about these two suspects. Everything about these two men could have been staged on a completely different date.
Can somebody pleas tell me how a certain mystery Skip, was allowed to go unemptied for over-nearly 3 months. The Rental charge must have been collosal.
Just how was Charle Rowley able to find a small perfume box amongst all the other debris. Just a passing query to add to the whole convoluted saga.
You normally pay for a skip up front to fill and be taken away, not a weekly rental charge. There is usually a time limit but it is not always enforced if you are a good customer and they are not desperate for skips or you have negotiated a longer term before collection. You have obviously never met a junky to answer your second query..
If they are using different gangways there would be supporting prior cctv to show them entering separate ones, I am sure UK govt would quickly issue supportive cctv confirmation.
But this would have been planned well in advance. Round-tripping agents to Moscow on genuine UK passports for the outward leg and using high quality forged Russian passports for the return leg…then the choreographed/photographed trips to Salisbury….almost screaming out to be caught by any police cctv trawl……no effort made to disguise “Russian agents” or their modus operandi…almost as if the Russian planners were saying “”Right, let’s use a Soviet nerve-agent, that’ll call plenty of attention to us….they’ll then they’d be looking for people entering and leaving UK within that 72 hour time-frame….let’s use two seedy “Russian-looking” agents…call them Alexander and Borishov…so they’ll stick out like dogs’ balls…(as opposed to inserting the agents as bogus German tourists for eg…not beyond the wit of GRU)…aagh…the whole thing makes me sick…people taking everyone for complete idiots…