Like many, my first thought at the interview of Boshirov and Petrov – which apparently are indeed their names – is that they were very unconvincing. The interview itself seemed to be set up around a cramped table with a poor camera and lighting, and the interviewer seemed pretty hopeless at asking probing questions that would shed any real light.
I had in fact decided that their story was highly improbable, until I started seeing the storm of twitter posting, much of it from mainstream media journalists, which stated that individual things were impossible which were, in fact, not impossible at all.
The first and most obvious regards the weather on 3 and 4 March. It is in fact absolutely true that, if the two had gone down to Salisbury on 3 March with the intention of going to Stonehenge, they would have been unable to get there because of the snow. It is therefore perfectly possible that they went back the next day to try again; and public transport out of Salisbury was still severely disrupted, and many roads closed, on 4 March. Proof of this is not at all difficult to find.
This image is from the Salisbury Journal’s liveblog on 4 March.
Those mocking the idea that the pair were blocked by snow from visiting Stonehenge have pointed to the CCTV footage of central Salisbury not showing snow on the afternoon of 4 March. Well, that is central Salisbury, it had of course been salted and cleared. Outside there were drifts.
So that part of their story in fact turns out not to be implausible as social media is making out; in fact it fits precisely with the actual facts.
The second part of their story that has brought ridicule is the notion that two Russians would fly to the UK for the weekend and try to visit Salisbury. This ridicule has been very strange to me. Weekend breaks – arrive on Friday and return on Sunday – are a standard part of the holiday industry. Why is it apparently unthinkable that Russians fly on weekend breaks as well as British people?
Even more strange is the idea that it is wildly improbable for Russian visitors to wish to visit Salisbury cathedral and Stonehenge. Salisbury Cathedral is one of the most breathtaking achievements of Norman architecture, one of the great cathedrals of Europe. It attracts a great many foreign visitors. Stonehenge is world famous and a world heritage site. I went on holiday this year and visited Wurzburg to see the Bishop’s Palace, and then the winery cooperative at Sommerach. Because somebody does not choose to spend their leisure time on a beach in Benidorm does not make them a killer. Lots of people go to Salisbury Cathedral.
There seems to be a racist motif here – Russians cannot possibly have intellectual or historical interests, or afford weekend breaks.
The final meme which has worried me is “if they went to see the cathedral, why did they visit the Skripal house?” Well, no evidence at all has been presented that they visited the Skripal house. They were captured on CCTV walking past a petrol station 500 yards away – that is the closest they have been placed to the Skripal house.
The greater mystery about these two is, if they did visit the Skripal House and paint Novichok on the doorknob, why did they afterwards walk straight past the railway station again and head into Salisbury city centre, where they were caught window shopping in a coin and souvenir shop with apparently not a care in the world, before eventually returning to the train station? It seems a very strange attitude to a getaway after an attempted murder. In truth their demeanour throughout the photographs is consistent with their tourism story.
The Russians have so far presented this pair in a very unconvincing light. But on investigation, the elements of their story which are claimed to be wildly improbable are not inconsistent with the facts.
There remains the much larger question of the timing.
The Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest. But there has never been any indication that the Skripals returned to their home after noon on Sunday 4 March. If they did so, they and/or their car somehow avoided all CCTV cameras. Remember they were caught by three CCTV cameras on leaving, and Borishov and Petrov were caught frequently on CCTV on arriving.
The Skripals were next seen on CCTV at 13.30, driving down Devizes road. After that their movements were clearly witnessed or recorded until their admission to hospital.
So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.
In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.
This is especially remarkable in the case of the Skripals’ location around noon on 4 March. The government can only maintain that they returned home at this time, as they insist they got the nerve agent from the doorknob. But why was their car so frequently caught on CCTV leaving, but not at all returning? It appears very much more probable that they came into contact with the nerve agent somewhere else, while they were out.
I shall write a further post on these timing questions shortly.
Another excellent post Craig, highlighting a number of problems with the account presented to us by the Government. It is quite possible that the pair are innocent of what they are accused, and that the pair might also be gay. If that turns out to be the case and the premature declarations of guilt and the ensuing publicity may have ruined their business and possibly their lives. We could end up in the peculiar situation of feeling the government might be morally obliged to offer them asylum in the UK.
Watching the recording of the interview I saw and heard nothing that I regarded as suspicious, with the possible exception of Boshirov’s blink rate. I formed the impression that they might at worst have been involved in procuring body building stimulants, hence the caginess of their answers regarding their business, otherwise zilch.
Anabolic steroids and the like? I wondered about that too with all the talk about biceps. But that didn’t originate from the duo, rather the editor. Biceps are so yesterday. These guys are not in the business of supplying elite Russian athletes with steroids. The two quickly redirected to improving health, sports supplements, fitness, energy boosters, amino acids, vitamins, trace elements, natural products and so forth. That’s a very different modern angle from body building. One that would appeal to appearance-conscious aging gay clients much more than body-building oils.
Their poor performance only makes them all the more convincing. Hardly polished professionals.
Surely, surely the bottom line here is that they have been interviewed.
If they were genuine spies you would not be seeing them anywhere near a tv camera!
Spy agencies are secret.
Pedro Miller anyone?
As I said earlier, the Russians are totally taking the piss out of the UK government’s narrative; which let”s face it a five-year-old could do.
Whether Mr Murray’s speculation is right or wrong, what he is doing is what any defence council worth her or his salt is present plausible alternatives which fit the facts and also indicate where the accounts being presented to us stretch credibility.
I have no idea what actually happed to the Skripals. The case of Dawn Sturges is genuinely tragic and undoubtedly she is an accidental victim
with all due respect, lawyers are all shit. Professional distorters of the truth. What is a defence counsel other than a liar, who rarely illuminates the facts of the case?
If you ever get accused of something in a civil or criminal court, you’ll be very grateful for defence counsel.
Everyone is entitled to legal defence; why ever would you want this to change, and to what?
A defence lawyer like (Sir) Keir Starmer maybe? Specialised in human rights. Declared on BBC Question Time that it was right to bomb Syria after the Douma “chemical weapons attack”, to show them they couldn’t get away with it. Presumably he never got any clients to defend and that’s why he gave up and became an MP.
I totally agree with you, because the only defence against the executive’s lies are known only to members of that same executive. That doesn’t mean the totality of the UK executive aren’t liars. it’s a stupid game by which they earn a bonkers amount of money by making things too complicated for a normal person to understand. My late mum’s will is 2.5 years into resolution because the lawyers have got their legal teeth into it, and they will carry on chewing away at the money until the last £200quid. swine.
with all due respect, prosecutors are all shit. Professional distorters of the truth. What is a prosecutor other than a liar, who rarely illuminates the facts of the case?
FTFY.
Isn’t that why they all wear the same wigs?
Rare but hopefully not extinct.
The accused Russians should ask for representation here.
Yes, the pair looked brain-washed. they came over as speaking out of one corner of their brains on instruction from the Russian government. Anybody who has been brought up under a Communist government would recognise their presentation as compulsory double-think. You have to say, even think, what would make the government happy without questioning. Chinese people find our freedom to think independently is shocking arrogance.
Maybe Putin is so extraordinarily comfortable with his ability to control people, he has forgotten that there are other countries where politicians do not own people’s lives like slaves.
Craig should start again, working on the principle that these two men are lying what the government has indoctrinated them to lie. What they said is total gibberish, even if it makes perfect sense.
I do not trust Tory dogma. They all lie all the time. Nor do I trust communist dogma, they all lie all the time too.
The British way, founded on years of deep study of the Bible in the vernacular English, is a path that follows truth. Two wrongs do not make a right. There is no point in trying to convince British people to believe lying capitalists or lying communists. We collectively suffer from an addiction to truth. it really upsets the Saudis and the Islamists, the Zionists and the French, and all the other cultures whose peoples are enslaved by theocratic dogma emanating form ruthless politics.
These Russians were talking shit. I do think Trump has a knack of hitting the truth, except when he is playing to the galleries of his electorate, when his racism, sexism and Zionism seem to me to be fairly thinly disguised self-preservation in his job.
Russia not communist any more. For ages.
I was brought up in the ’60s and my thinking is permanently shaped by that post-war idea of a better way than anything that preceded WW2.
In the real world lives last a long time. Yesterday they said on R4 the average lifespan of a woman in this country is 83. i.e. born in the 1920s
So with the greatest of respect your point is totally irrelevant.
You were mentioning communist dogma. Lots of people still talk as though Russia was a communist country. Surprising after such a long time. Like that diplomat saying would Marx be impressed https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/marx-would-be-turning-in-grave-says-british-envoy-c5fkwjvjx . I don’t imagine modern oligarchs care about Marx.
Jeez, pbuh. I wasn’t thinking about the philosophy of Karl Marx called communism. I was thinking about the fact that Putin came through the KGB. I travelled through eastern Europe as a teenager and saw the zombified state of the people under communist rule in the 1970s. Who mentioned anything about Marx?
Your arithmetic is faulty. Born in 1935 is now 83.
foolisholdman
peace and love be to all men equally and at all times
So what if my arithmetic is faulty? If SKY news or whatever daft gonks were on the telly at work can print Whether as a sub-title for weather, I don’t have to check my calcs. Thanks.
It’s not impossible for both sides in this affair to be lying.
What if the Russians were interested in Sergei and this was exploited? Sergei is an old man mauy find it hard to believe he was exposed to this terrible stuff deadly ‘Novichok’ . Yulia’s phone call was weird ‘everyone’s health is normal and there are no irreversible things’. , up to that point Sergei was officially in a coma.A week earlier both had less than 1% survival chances .
None of it adds up!
“Anybody who has been brought up under a Communist government would recognise their presentation as compulsory double-think.”
Have you tried reading the Washington Post, New York Times or the Guardian recently? to name just some.
What do you mean ‘recently’?
Point taken.
Indeed.
But it has got worse under the new Editor, certainly the at the guardian. Rusbridger broke the Snowden story, that took balls and was the bravest story in years from a MSM newspaper imho.
I would argue the NYTimes has hit an all-time low in its Skripal coverage. Some would say no, that would be Israel’s assault on the USS Liberty deprecated to page 10.
These last 2-3 articles have the Russians snarling or smirking. That seems to be their full range of facial expressions. Yellow journalism like we have not seen since Hurst. Those are not acceptable words in a newspaper of record and require a retraction and apology. Not talking about an op-ed but a front page news story.
It doesn’t add up whichever way you look at it! I think they are all in on it, the Cameron circle, the Clintons, Trump, Renzi, Salvini and Di Maio. You can’t believe the UK government, but now you can’t believe this nonsense either. They’re pissing in our faces!
Ah the smell of urine in the morning.
I really didn’t think that Putin could be in on the Brexit-Trump-Pentalega psy-op, but maybe he is. Although there is another explanation. Putin knows that the UK government can’t be taken seriously and so is laughing at them with a little joke of his own.
Seems as though it may be yourself that is brainwashed in this case.
Great work Craig. Disturbing that the Establishment can tell the Masses just Anything, and so many believe it.. Including an entirely innocent age group.
Gary Littlejohn
September 13, 2018 at 19:46 SAid –
” I have just seen an interview on Channel 4 News (7pm ) with a Russian former Lieutenant General who is now in a think tank called PIR ”
I had a look, and think he must be former Lieutenant General V. Lata, E. Buzhinsky
That Pir Centre looks like it dose a lot of great work on nonproliferation, arms control and international security
It seems curious they did not mention being contacted by Russian authorities which I have to imagine would be SOP after such serious allegations by another country
Also, why not bring tourist photos as evidence to back up your story?
It seems the purpose of the interview was to discredit them so you must wonder if they are patsys for hire.
I assume we will in due course see some selected photos.
Presumably of May, Trump and Putin involved in a threesome and not at all photoshopped. The disturbing thing is that people still won’t think, what a load of old conkers, we’re being played!
Hopefully some selected photos of the victims ambling round Salisbury Sunday afternoon
looking in rude health.
We’ve seen the alleged attackers – time to see the attacked.
The only picture the public have seen is the Red bag couple – who may or may not be the Skripals.
I wonder what the colour of Yulia’s hair was when entering the hospital and what colour was it when she left?
If we had pictures of the victims the blonde haired scenario would not be in doubt.
They were interviewed, they did not conduct the interview. See, the way interviews work is the person conducting the interview asks the questions and the person or persons being interviewed reply.
longest (25min+) interview with text transcription is here
https://www.rt.com/news/438356-rt-petrov-boshirov-full-interview/
Craig was entirely right Russia’s responsibility was improbable and unproven. Other players have far better reason to do this, whereas for Russia it could only ever have been a negative sum game (even the Steele dossier is not really motive enough). But the idea that a pair of 40 year-old fitness fanatics visited Salisbury as the *only* historically adduced expression of an interest in Gothic architecture and ecclesiastical horology, and travelled thousands of miles only to be thwarted by a mile or two of slush, twice in a weekend, and sought no substitute to quench their architectural thirst, or any other substantive tourist activity, is patently absurd. So is the idea that a straight man would have no reason to carry *boxed* feminine perfume as a presumed gift; worse, that it could arouse the suspicions of customs. Russia’s responsibility is now probable and unproven: no reasonable person could think otherwise.
The staggering stupidity of most western political figures has made Putin look like a sage. But as anyone who has been close to power knows, especially power so outrageously unsupervised and prolonged, even the very competent start to lose their touch when left unchallenged for long. And for all we know, the plastic surgeon who injected so much silicone into his face a few years ago accidentally infarcted a sizeable chunk of prefrontal cortex.
It’s possible. The roads were closed, buses were not running, it was all very unusual. I live in the south west, it wasn’t just a mile or two of slush. And I’d visit interesting sites on a weekend abroad without being any kind of specialist in architecture. Out of all tourists coming to England that weekend, one or two choosing to visit Stonehenge or Salisbury cathedral isn’t unreasonable. As far as we’ve been told, the only real link is the nerve agent in the hotel, which does sound weird. Otherwise, if it is the right men, and if their story is untrue, it still doesn’t mean assassins. All the other options of messengers, couriers etc still work. And maybe they are hiding something different.
I really don’t like the standards of proof, it’s back on the ‘highly likely’ spectrum. That’s why we should have a proper case that a court could look at, not all this secrecy and minimal selective revelations for effect.
You can’t believe any of the ‘evidence’ anyway. British intelligence agenicies could have manufactured or set up anything.
Seedy hotel, roach infestation likely, organophosphate insecticide use probable.
Organophosphake?
Exactly. Trace trace amounts on the swabs require exquisitely sensitive lab tests. Why are they making the nature of the chemical testing so opaque? Because PD is simply testing for acetylcholine esterase inhibition of enzyme activity. They have orders of magnitude less material than needed for gc-mass spec or immunochemistry.
Problem is, PD can hardly distinguish one organophosphate poison from another, they all have the same target. Never stand up in court as a novichok much less A-234 specifically.
All hotels have problems with vermin … you’re better off in a less expensive one because they wouldn’t spend so much trying to kill the last flea or cockroach.
The Russian Defence chess moves have easily undone the Atlantic Council PR bs.
It is pathetic that we have over promoted aristo pricks in charge of OUR security playing their Great Game!
Mr Wintour at his most florid on the matter.
Salisbury pair’s unlikely story only makes UK’s case stronger
That Russia has responded to UK claims rather than shut up shop shows some nervousness
Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor
Thu 13 Sep 2018 13.37 BST
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/salisbury-suspects-unlikely-story-only-makes-uk-case-stronger
Russia probably just trying to avoid further round of diplomatic expulsions
If those two are guilty and acting then George Clooney is a donkey. .. Oh hang on. Never mind that. Lets just say Wintour’s xenophobic racism is compromising his ability to experience real life. Russia is doing no such thing.
“Salisbury pair’s unlikely story only makes UK’s case stronger”
Like flogging a dead horse to expedite ploughing.
Doodlebug
I have posted the link that I promised you (re Dawn’s resemblance to CCTV image) at page 2. But to save you having to search for it, here it is again.
https://imgur.com/a/zdWycW0
That is quite remarkable. You may actually have something there.
I’m playing late ‘catch up’ on a topic that’s moving faster than I can keep up and with a laptop that won’t let me.
Thanks for the link (https://imgur.com/a/zdWycW0).
Unfortunately I see absolutely nothing (literally) where I might expect to see a picture or two. Is that the link you intended? The comment by nwwods could well be mere sarcasm, I don’t know, but since you’ve taken the time to research the image you had in mind I must assume it is relevant and possibly important.
Please keep me up to speed if poss.
Many thanks
The best form of defence is …fall flat on your face and have a tantrum. The Groan doesn’t even pretend anymore.
Just noticed that on the crumpled Nina Ricci box the contents are listed as 5.5 ml – 17 FL. OZ
5.5 ml is clearly not equivalent to 17 fl oz. Curiouser and curiouser………..
There’s a decimal point just visible, that’s .17 fl oz.
Proves it can’t be Russian; they use a decimal comma.
It is a knock-off of a type made in Spain. Marketing text is in Frenglish, ingredient list is straight English, decimal appropriate.
People will clearly believe any old tosh, I expect news reports that the Nini Ricci bottle was seen being carried by a rainbow coloured rabbit. All taken 100% seriously by the G5 government. It will turn out that it’s Putin’s pet and selfies of him with it will turn up on Twitter.
At this point, we can expect reports that the Nina Ricci bottle was seen being carried by Nina Ricci herself.
Well having watched the extended interview with English voice over which, I have to assume, at this stage is correctky translate, my view is that they came to London officiallty for some r and r but also with a rather less salubrious secondary undisclosed motive. The trip to Salisbury during the daytimes may or may not have been directly connected to the events surrounding the Skripals but I suspect it was some errands whose aftermath they had not been fully made aware of.
They did say this trip to London was for enjoyment rather than work and they don’t seem to have got up particularly early each morning – after a late night?. We have not been told what they did on Friday or Saturday nights. Maybe they did not need much of a hotel room as they were not planning on spending much time there. You all keep asking are they gays. I wonder if gigolos might be an alternative or maybe managing some in London. Or running errands for a bigger fish.
I still do not understand why the UK security services should frame them. Who do they think they really are?. Whose names are the EWAs in? The pseudonyms, if they are? If it is a Russian sting p.they were not aware of it ore very good actors. But with the Met anti territory squad running the investigation, all bets are off. They usually have their own agenda and their “facts* are required to fit it.
The investigators would use the CCTV footage to establish if any recent arrivals from Russia could be placed in Salisbury on the weekend in question. As we can see, two men have been identified as having made such a journey. But the burden of proof remains with the investigators to further establish a link between these men and the Skripal incident. The mere presence of the men in Salisbury does not constitute proof – although a large number of persons seem confused by this distinction. In the absence of any information which would contradict the men’s stories, the speculation about their personal lives is infringing their privacy it would seem. It is the solely the UK government which is responsible for introducing false information about this case, right from the beginning with the claim that only Russia could be associated with the alleged nerve agent. Therefore it is the claims by the government on this matter which deserve skepticism.
Concerns about the CCTV image from Gatwick seem irrelevant at this point, as there is no controversy that these men did travel together through Gatwick on the day in question, and there otherwise is no apparent reason for the government to manipulate or falsify the images.
Have a like. Trial by media must end. A civil case beckons.
My view is that Met bet the farm on collating passenger manifests and cctv, too many resources went to super-observers and faux clean-ups. Six months of ridicule went by with no results, not even how or where the Skripals were attached.
Then perfume box surfaced unexpectedly, leaving public safety issues unresolved despite monstrous expenditures over something invovling foreigners that didn’t really concern them. Non-stop intervention and interference with the investigation from PM, mayors, MI5 and FCO. Recently, refusing to show visa app with Scotland Yard. Earlier, premature finger-pointing had painted Met into a unsustainable corner of bogus narrative. Pressure on Met to ramp up the russian-bashing in synchrony with softening the ground before an Adlib intervention.
The best they could come up with is came up with this circumstantial case against two gays on holiday + dodgy business. At the PM level, a few may have sincerely suspected Putin/GRU was involved, meaning they could blame whoever they wanted knowing Article 21 forbade extradition and the awkwardness of a court case. Big picture thinking, never mind actual evidence. Plus once back in Russia, how likely is a GRU operative to be found with 143,964,709 people spread out over an immense inaccessbile territory?
It seems the UK made no effort to establish their true identities. Surely MI6 has a name, photo and biometrics on every GRU operative just like they did in Sergei’s day. Hence the panic when it turned out these guys were traveling under their own names on legitimate passports and standing visas.
Very distressing to read how many people assume these men are gay. It’s nobody’s business what their sexual preferences are and, MORE TO THE POINT, it’s totally irrelevant to the Skripal story. We already have enough flights-of-fancy speculation and ‘facts’ that don’t fit without muddying the waters with these guys’ sexuality.
Robyn
You are being unfair in your admonishment. No one has shown any evidence of homophobia or disparaging comments. The matter of whether they may be gay or not is not ‘irrelevant to the Skripal story’. The whole reason it IS of relevance is because it would go a long way to explain why the men appeared nervous and reticent to give details of their movements over the weekend and what business they are in. That is the basis for people referring to their possible sexuality on this forum and elsewhere; it’s to support their claims of innocence..
London Waterloo to Salisbury is only 1 hour 30 minutes away.
Citystay Hotel is right next to Docklands Light Railway station. 26 mins from Bow Church DLR to Waterloo.
Price for double room was £138 for 2 night on website, so quite cheap. So probably cheaper to stay there, than in Salisbury. Plus add in some London night life.
I take back what I said about “why not stay in Salisbury”. These guys may indeed be legit. Maybe they were on a budget.
The Psyop was designed to put the blame on Russia straight away. This has continued. Lots of the official story make little sense, meaning that, it has been made up from the beginning.
I kept on previously mentioning the fabricated terror Psyops at Westminster etc, as a frame of reference. As, if the government will lie about stuff like that, the government is now so corrupted, that it will lie about anything, if it fits the government narrative.
Final nail in the coffin for the Westminster fake terror scam. Calculate the length of Westminster bridge, relative to supposed speed of “Masood”s car” and you will find that the official narrative is complete and utter lies. Do your own math!!!! Make up your own mind.
And tax payers are now paying for a scam inquest.
Yes.
If there is doubt around, the fact the govt had blamed the Russians within hours, could be the reason. Boris Johnson jumped to conclusions over Arkady Babchenko’s non-slaying too remember . So the idea these politicians are being objective and weighing the evidence carefully seems incorrect.
Staying in Salisbury would be about half the price or less.
Are you assuming that vehicle travelled across the bridge at a constant speed?
no they said in the interview essentially that they came to London for two reasons, to party in London and sightsee in Salisbury. Presumably they were staying In London for the party bit. It does also occur to me, could they have come here to be in a porn film? That might be why they were coy about what they had in common while insisting they were straight.
You are on a roll today with great suggestions! Maybe they have clients all over Europe wanting to star in their own porn movie. Different niche from making porn to sell online, so competitive. That would explain their travels and reticence, fear of exposure and lost repeat business. They are radioactive now whatever their business, that’s for sure.
I though their statement that ‘real men don’t carry perfume” is exactly what a closeted gay would think. That would never occur to a Burt Reynolds type who would carry multiple thank-you gift bottles for women he might encounter during travel.
Zakharova of Russian Foreign Office: “No agent Apollo who switched sides whatsoever, all diplomats in Rome are accounted for”.
http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/3343253
Ha! Ha! Ha! It’s all a practical joke and Putin is in on it. He could have said that he had never seen this two and had no idea who they are. We can’t track them down. Instead this silly story about the weekend trip to Stonehenge is nonsense. The whole thing his too farcical to be taken seriously. The positions of both the UK and Russian governments are ridiculous and it’s astounding that anyone could fall for either of them. First I thought this was happening so that we could go to war in Syria or Ukraine and then I thought it was designed to come out just in time for the next GE to push the Tory vote down. Now I think they are just taking the piss. Why else would Putin make such a stonker of a piss take!?
I believe the two Russians. I think they probably were on a two day trip to try and satisfy their love of tall spires and interest in the history of clocks. After all, thatis a really normal thjng to do, and anybody who has ever been to Salisbury knows that the area around the cathedral is zlways chock full of Russians admiring the heighf of the spire.
I also believe that the Russians probably are afraid of snow. After all, it’s not like they ever get any in their country, and the temperature that day (which got almost as low as 2°!) must have come as a terrible shock.
Plenty of tourists visit Salisbury. Why shouldn’t they be Russian?
Or are you saying that any male couple of tourists from a foreign nation who visit Salisbury must automatically be up to no good?
Or are you just exhibiting Russophobia?
I love the way everyone is taking the piss out of this!
I’m fascinated by the news that Salisbury has the world’s oldest working clock. Every day is a school day! Thank you Russian tourists
The Thick Plottens. I love this story. I wish I had written it myself.
Of course no comments allowed…
Spy poisoning suspects’ interview ‘an insult to public’s intelligence’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/spy-poisoning-suspects-interview-an-insult-to-publics-intelligence
… because the biggest insult to the public’s intelligence is the likes of the Guardian (but they don’t give a shite because they’re now funded by the biggest criminal organisation in the world; aka the CIA).
The peculiar this about this Guardian non news opinion item is that it took three people to write it. I see Steven Morris is currently writing about badgers: https://twitter.com/stevenmorris20
If the couple were gay, would they not have travelled to Manchester or Brighton, instead of the militarised zone of Salisbury Plain? They could then have applied some novichok to Russia’s bete-noirs in Didsbury and Crawley mosques.
The root of the problem with the Skripal story is that the English government is in total denial of the fact that they have been militarily and ideologically defeated by Putin, aided by China. Government experts are still telling us that Russia and China are weak. Because they just can’t face up to the fact that their ideas, the Thatcher ideas, are demonstratably failures, they keep having to convince themselves that we are competitive by paying exorbitant executive salaries, while the rest of us are living hand-to-mouth.
If these guys are gay, and exploring the fantasy guidebook version of a rural town in the south of England
far from the prying eyes of the Russian state, they need to get real. The UK is a fascist country which has waged war against Islam for a full 30 years continuously, but not out because they love diversity and tolerate gay sex, but because they want the oil and minerals under the Muslim lands and they love eating Muslim blood.
Which brings the suspicion right where it belongs and originated.
Giyane, keep your head clean man.
bj
I did keep it clean. First I eliminated the May version of events because she is a liar from the lying party which currently holds sway in the lying state. .
Then I eliminated the version presented by RT which was a spoof of a tourist guide.
Then I eliminated Craig’s suggestion that they may be gay, because my old friend who lives in Russia and is blonde like Boris told me that two guards tried to rape him in a Russian airport. Maybe Russia accepts homosexual acts without accepting male fops.
I think : These guys were paid by Putin to pass casually by Skripal to discourage him from doing something, but the plan was rumbled by MI6 who planted the chokinukes and told Skripal to stay away from his house while they were around and to get ready for some non-lethal spike of drugs. Not even cockroach poison organophosphates. Skripal isn’t being trusted to give a different version of events.
I like the idea that Putin is having a joke proposed here by some. I now begin to understand why Steele may be relevant in these stupid war-games. Craig is normally right, from his in-depth knowledge of the system. “Agatha Christie is a fiction writer” the message from Putin to the british government kinda ties in with that, even though the BG didn’t get the joke.
See, even you can’t take it seriously!
Russian intelligence has had six months to construct a backstory for these guys.
High-end watch dealers, dupes of Orbis, gold smugglers, with all the resources of a state behind them they could have made anything up. But no. It is convincing in its weakness.
Thanks. Nice petitio principii.
agree fully..
They are gay. 99% certain that is why they are sketchy and answered strangely. They need to cover it up.
The truth of the interview is they are telling the truth, but not all the truth. All the truth is about being out cruising for some “fun”.
Doesn’t matter what Twitter feeds say. Most people are idiots.
For certain, the UK is stuck with their lies. The whole caper is a British F*ckUp. They will have to keep lying to keep it going.
These two clowns now have ruined lives.
No one interviewing them would have gotten any other responses.
She did the interview set in her office, not a studio, as they wanted to be interviewed. What she uncovered was they were in Salisbury looking for other gays. It simply was not told directly. What wasn’t explicit was implicit.
I am blessed to not have twitter. Conscious objector.
Can anybody tell me if the UK MSM print media are sharing in the ridicule and to what extent?
pretty much how i see it too..
Hi all!
I’m very glad to see a lot of clever and detailed comments on this very strange TV show.
As a russian-speaking man I can say that guys speaked very strange things. There are a lot of mismatches in their speech, and all this strange scenario was written by real dumb.
I just want to say some things, or versions.
1. This guys are GRU or KGB spies. That’s not a crime, there are a lot of spies.
2. They did not try to kill Skripal. I think that Skripal even was not injured. That’s a hoax, fiction. Who have seen Skripal? Nobody!
3. That guys was trapped by MI-6 or CIA. They was called to Salisbery, for example, to meet with a guy from Porton-Down. Why not? They expected to recruit egg-head from secret laboratory, but it was a trap.
4. This strange TV show was allowed by Putin (yesterday he said “Let this guys come on TV!” — what a beatiful prevision!). But scenario was written by real idiot. Things that guys were saying — awfull bullshit.
5. Now Putin thinks on the following: how to punish that idiot that did not prevent such a trap (and to avoid publicity), and who will change this idiot.
He’s alive!
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
ha ha.
I think Sergey
September 13, 2018 at 21:50 is 100% right.
No connection with the ‘Surge’ of the Monteverdi Vespers which is talking about the rising of the dead on the day of Judgement.
NONE of it can be taken seriously, can it?
1. there is no any need to visit porton-down in couple.
2. their speech, language, gestures, habits do not even fit level of army officer, not GRU.
3. they really behave like frightened rednecks from village or provincial town.
4. there is only one thing where Petrov speaks smoothly – fitness drugs.
5. Petrov very looks and speaks like regular “kachok” – “pumper”, the person, who spent half of his life in muscle pumping in the gym. Not a lot of brains compensated by a lot of muscle.
How many fingers am i holding up? Here have a vodka.
@kempe
FROM BBC report on originally what was said to have happened:
Police believe Masood was driving at up to 76mph. (NOT 31 MPH THEN?)
82-second attack
14:40:08 – Masood’s car mounts pavement on Westminster Bridge and hits pedestrians
14:40:38 – Masood crashes into perimeter fence of Palace of Westminster
14:40:59 – First 999 call made to Met police
14:41:30 – Masood leaves vehicle, runs towards Parliament, and is shot dead
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39355108
The CGI video released of “Andreea Cristeea (sic)” falling into Thames shows a fabricated CGI vehicle travelling at very high speed. This was created to back up the Psyop narrative.
The vehicle could not have travelled at that original “up to 76 MPH” speed that was the government narrative, as the car would have been over the bridge far too fast.
The speed has now been dropped to 31 MPH at the scam inquest. They dropped down the speed, as he could not have possibly being going any faster than 31 MPH, as he would have crossed the 827 feet bridge in too fast a time to fit the Psyop narrative.
If at any time the car was travelling at 76MPH, then it would have been over the bridge etc, in far too fast a time for the 30 seconds in the official narrative. Which can only mean one thing, the official story is false, and made up.
Of what we know about such operations in the public domain, it seems rare that such a sensitive operation, if indeed commissioned by the Russgov would be entrusted to just two men. The Dubai assassination was multiple ppl in teams. The Amman job consisted of 5 ppl.
Is it not plausible that there could be other members that comprised a team, information that the Britgov wouldn’t want known as it exposes the level of its knowledge of an opposing Intel agency(ies). Even the information that they are GRU agents may be a public misdirection to more detailed information available to the investigators. If, via your own sources, you know they belong to directorate A of agency Y, for example, why would you disclose that information without initiating a mole hunt in that agency by your adversary?
If they came to the UK to visit Salisbury, why did they fix a room in a hotel in east London, instead of just staying in Salisbury? That alone took at least 8 hours of totally avoidable train/tube journeys from their stay.
They came, according to the broadcast, to party in London, ,(presumably at night) and sightsee in the day They said they planned to visit Salisbury on Saturday because friends had said it was worth seeing. Their Salisbury visit on Saturday was snowed off so they returned on Sunday. They claimed they will be on the CCTV in the church.
Maybe they didn’t need much of a hotel room, as they didn’t plan on being in it much at night. No reports yet in of what they got up to in London on Friday and Saturday nights. They insist those are their real names btw.
They also came to have fun (party I guess) in London, 2 birds, 1 stone, read the transcript on RT. Salisbury was supposed to be a day visit only
i haven’t kept up with the comments.. has anyone ran the 2 guys are gay and on a holiday storyline yet? being gay in russia is still not something that is an accepted thing… putting put in front of the media to explain yourself without the privilege of mentioning this is a double whanny… and yet, some folks expect people who never go in front of a camera, to be quite happy, spontaneous and etc. etc. with it… some folks who follow the media live in a friggin bubble..
Some –not the least prolific– wouldn’t even go other than Anon here.
at present – uk is lying or withholding info… that much i get..
i don’t know that everyone is privy to ”all knowledge” but i do note the uk is not following protocol when it comes to chemical weapon use on other countries soil.. i can’t help think the uk is in over it’s head, but regardless – all the poodles with lead poodle – usa – are all in agreement, just as they were in the lead up to the war on iraq.. that much i do know..
Nope, still nothing. Has there been any evidence that hasn’t convinced you, since you ask?
You have it quite backwards, Anders. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. The burden of proof does not fall on the accused to refute an ever-changing narrative based on secret findings. Maybe it does in your backward country but not here — the Magna Carta governs law, custom and culture whether the toffs repealed it or not in the 19th century.
Perhaps you are admiring of Kafka and The Trial. That evidentiary procedural may be acceptable where you live, not here. The prosecution here has not made its case, rather they have made fools of themselves.
Craig did you see the police arrested Chris Busby and had police all through his house? They claimed a bio-risk. Of course there was none. Here was Chris warning about radioactive dumping off the South west coast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtPKEED0oc and here is the dumping beginning off the Somerset Coast: https://penarthnews.wordpress.com/2018/09/11/in-the-dark-the-first-2000-tons-of-pollution-is-dumped-off-penarth/ Chris became famous by debunking Douma and Novichok…
Hoi Polloi
My mother came from this family in Penarth. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F24623.
My grandfather had a Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter which has recently been copied in a Bristol Dockyard.
That’s shocking. Are they thinking that this shipping channel is not fished, while further out is fished?
I would like to go back to a scientific point. Modern DNA replication techniques can allow for detection of absolutely tiny traces of the molecule. It seems ludicrous to assume that any trained assassin would risk leaving material evidence behind, a ‘smoking gun’ so to speak. It stretches credulity even further to then have the main suspects offer themselves up when even the tiniest mistake on their part could lead to an irrefutable link between the Russian security apparatus and this heinous crime. Even with surgical gloves on it is not impossible for traces of DNA to transfer from the assassin to the device. At the very least the perfume bottle would likely have someones DNA on it. Tracing the regional identity of the DNA would be further circumstancial evidence of a Russian link (assuming they were the guilty party).
It seems the more evidence that turns up in this case the further we get from the truth. Common sense seems to indicate to me that the truth is certainly not on the UK’s side. If these two men are agents of the Russian government let us see the proof. Let the head of MI6 or some other involved agency put this to rest in the interests of public satisfaction that their government is in the right on this critical issue. The assumption that we, the dosile masses will accept any assertion uttered by the Establishment is insulting. Not least because it seem most people DO accept anything the media report.
On a more minor point, the sheer frothing at the mouth of the UK news agencies deriding the ‘fakeness’ and ‘woodeness’ of the interview is baffling. The two men look perfectly normal considering the weird situation they are in. I agree with Craig that the assumption that two Russian men wouldn’t visit Salisbury to see a Cathedral says more about the commentators than it does about the likely truth of the story. I am an atheist but I have visited many Cathedrals, most recently in Seville. While there I saw and heard people from all corners of the world. What utter weirdness to suggest sightseeing at a Cathedral is implausible. Again, I agree with Craig, it is the timeline and CCTV footage we should concentrate on.
I think you’ll find it is both the US and UK States that are totally inept.
You have it quite backwards for the 10th time today, Anders. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. The burden of proof does not fall on the accused to refute an ever-changing narrative based on secret findings. Maybe it does in your backwards country but not here — the Magna Carta governs law, custom and culture whether the toffs repealed it or not in the 19th century.
Perhaps you are admiring of Kafka and The Trial. That evidentiary procedural may be acceptable where you live, not here. The prosecution here has not made its case, rather they have made fools of themselves.
Here, as always, the authorities claim to have all sorts of incredible convincing evidence that they unfortunately cannot reveal because it might jeopardize a prosecution they’ve announced no intention to pursue. Showing evidence expose their moles. Can’t even be shared with allies. Take their word for it.
Police forensics, we have seen absolutely nothing to date. Six months have gone by, no forensics, no test results, Skripals not free to speak, Nick Bailey not free to speak, Neil Basu not free to speak. How many ml in the perfume bottle — even the most trivial detail cannot be released. Because it would jeopardize the story to date. They simply go on, digging themselves ever deeper in their hole.
Perhaps the powers that be just aren’t very good with timings. Remember the mortaring or Downing Street? The official version was that the van was outside Downing Street for ten minutes, whereas witnesses said that it was there for under two. Ten, however, became the official version of the truth and no-one was interested after that as to what actually happened.
Sorry, that was a reply to SIS @ 22:00
Please expand and expound.
It may have passed your notice, but I can neither see your face nor hear your voice. That doesn’t mean I don’t know what sarcasm means.
When Russian Boshirov and Alexander Petrov were asked about the CCTV photos that have the two of them passing through the lane/corridor at Gatwick at the exact same time.
https://youtu.be/6OBe2ChNArk
The Shell petrol station on Wilton Road where they were spotted is in the direction of the Skripal residence (700 yards from it), which, as Craig Murray points out, is in itself no proof they had any intention of going there. It is, however, in the opposite direction of the town centre where the Cathedral and other tourist sights are located. Considering they had visited Salisbury the day before, they ought to have already figured out the direction from the railway station to the town centre.
According to the Met timestamps (and not disputed by the two men), they spent 122 minutes in total in Salisbury, from 11.48 to 13.50. From the railway station they jogged at a brisk 4 mph for 3/4 mile in the opposite direction of the town centre in order to be clocked at the petrol station at 11.58. It would have taken at least 25 minutes to get from there to the Cathedral by foot, arriving there at 12.23 (if they didn’t take a taxi). According to Bashirov, they not only visited the Cathedral, but also went to a park (perhaps he means the Cathedral grounds) and went to a coffee shop for some coffee. It seems they would have to have done both the cathedral and park in 35 minutes, as they were seen back on Fisherton Street at 13.05 walking away from the centre (500 yards from the station), and again at 13.08 (350 yards from the station). The coffee break would have been somewhere around (or in ) the station.
It doesn’t make much sense to spend 3 hours on a train, from London to Salisbury and back, on two consecutive days, in order to spend a mere 35 minutes in total at a Cathedral and park. Even if the original Stonehenge plan was cancelled due to bad weather, there are plenty of other things to see while in Salisbury (like visit Porton Down). But then again, tourists are notorious for their irrational behaviour, so I guess it can’t be ruled out.