The Turkish account of the murder of Khashoggi given by President Erdogan is true, in every detail. Audio and video evidence exists and has been widely shared with world intelligence agencies, including the US, UK, Russia and Germany, and others which have a relationship with Turkey or are seen as influential. That is why, despite their desperate desire to do so, no Western country has been able to maintain support for Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. I have not seen the video from inside the consulate, but have been shown stills which may be from a video. The most important thing to say is that they are not from a fixed position camera and appear at first sight consistent with the idea they are taken by a device brought in by the victim. I was only shown them briefly. I have not heard the audio recording.
There are many things to learn from the gruesome murder other than the justified outrage at the event itself. It opens a window on the truly horrible world of the extremely powerful and wealthy.
The first thing to say is that the current Saudi explanation, that this was an intended interrogation and abduction gone wrong, though untrue, does have one thing going for it. It is their regular practice. The Saudis have for years been abducting dissidents abroad and returning them to the Kingdom to be secretly killed. The BBC World Service often contains little pockets of decent journalism not reflected in its main news outlets, and here from August 2017 is a little noticed piece on the abduction and “disappearance” of three other senior Saudis between 2015-17. Interestingly, while the piece was updated this month, it was not to include the obvious link to the Khashoggi case.
The key point is that European authorities turned a completely blind eye to the abductions in that BBC report, even when performed on European soil and involving physical force. The Saudi regime was really doing very little different in the Khashoggi case. In fact, inside Saudi Arabia, Khashoggi was a less senior and important figure than those other three abducted then killed, about whom nobody kicked up any fuss, even though the truth was readily available. Mohammed Bin Salman appears to have made two important miscalculations: he misread Erdogan and he underestimated the difference which Khashoggi’s position as a Washington Post journalist made to political pressure on Western governments.
Khashoggi should not himself be whitewashed. He had a long term professional association with the Saudi security services which put him on the side of prolific torturers and killers for decades. That does not in any sense justify his killing. But it is right to be deeply sceptical of the democratic credentials of Saudis who were in with the regime and have become vocal for freedom and democracy only after being marginalised by Mohammed Bin Salman’s ruthless consolidation of power (which built on a pre-existing trend).
The same scepticism is true many times over when related to CIA Director Gina Haspel, who personally supervised torture in the CIA torture and extraordinary rendition programme. Haspel was sent urgently to Ankara by Donald Trump to attempt to deflect Erdogan from any direct accusation of Mohammed Bin Salman in his speech yesterday. MBS’ embrace of de facto alliance with Israel, in pursuit of his fanatic hatred of Shia Muslims, is the cornerstone of Trump’s Middle East policy.
Haspel’s brief was very simple. She took with her intercept intelligence that purportedly shows massive senior level corruption in the Istanbul Kanal project, and suggested that Erdogan may not find it a good idea if intelligence agencies started to make public all the information they hold.
Whether Erdogan held back in his speech yesterday as a result of Haspel’s intervention I do not know. Erdogan may be keeping cards up his sleeve for his own purpose, particularly relating to intercepts of phone and Skype calls from the killers direct to MBS’ office. I have an account of Haspel’s brief from a reliable source, but have not been updated on who she then met, or what the Turks said to her. It does seem very probable, from Trump’s shift in position this morning to indicate MBS may be involved, that Haspel was convinced the Turks have further strong evidence and may well use it.
Meantime, the British government maintains throughout that, whatever else happens, British factories will continue to supply bombs to Saudi Arabia to massacre children on school buses and untold numbers of other civilians. Many Tory politicians remain personally in Saudi pockets, with former Defence Minister Michael Fallon revealed today as being amongst them.
It is of course extraordinary that Saudi war crimes in Yemen, its military suppression of democracy in Bahrain, its frequent executions of dissidents, human rights defenders, and Shia religious figures, even its arrests of feminists, have had little impact in the West. But the horrible murder of Khashoggi has caught the public imagination and forced western politicians to at least pretend to want to do something about the Saudis whose wealth they crave. I expect any sanctions will be smoke and mirrors.
Mohammed Bin Salman is no fool, and he realises that to punish members of his personal security detail who were just following his orders, would put him in the position of Caligula and the Praetorian Guard, and not tend to his long term safety. Possibly people will be reassigned, or there will be brief imprisonments till nobody is looking. If I were a dissident or Shia in Saudi Arabia who bore any kind of physical resemblance to any of the party of murderers, I would get out very quick.
With every sympathy for his horrible murder, Khashoggi and his history as a functionary of the brutal Saudi regime should not be whitewashed. Mohammed Bin Salman is directly responsible for his murder, and if there is finally international understanding that he is a dangerous psychopath, that is a good thing. You will forgive me for saying that I explained this back in March whilst the entire mainstream media, awash with Saudi PR cash, was praising him as a great reformer. For the Americans to deploy Gina Haspel gives us a welcome reminder that they are in absolutely no position to moralise. Whatever comes of this will not be “justice”. The truth the leads can reveal is much wider than the narrow question of the murder incident, as I hope this article sketches out. That the fallout derails to some extent the murder machine in Yemen is profoundly to be hoped.
Turkey claimed the Ottoman Caliphate between 1362 and 1918. Erdogan the Magnificent wants to be the leader of the Sunni Ummah too, but the Saudi king is in the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate
The Wahhabi establishment with its multi-billion dollar budget for building mosques and madrasas, which are stocked with Wahhabi imams, has made Wahhabism one of the most dominant, if not the dominant, version of Sunni Islam in the world today. Of course Wahhabis are only called that by their detractors. In online arguments about Islam the Wahabbi is the one who says Wahhabism doesn’t exist. That is actually technically true. It is an ultra austere and puritanical, not to mention intolerant, reading of orthodox Sunni Islam (Salafism) based on the writings of Muhammad ibn Wahhab. They claim (of course) to be the “true” Islam. Their bags of money helped spread Wahhabism to Chechnya, where Sufism dominates, during the wars there in the 1990s.
This most powerful aspect of Saudi influence is never (and I mean never) discussed publicly by western leaders and only very very rarely by the MSM.
Same for the blog sphere like here: writing about the ME without mentioning let alone factoring in the dominant Ideology in the region, which claims both religion and state realms.
Waltzing around the monster Camel in the room.
If only life was so simple. Large swathes of discussions here whether about Syria, Palestine, Iraq and elsewhere are essentially a discussion of the manipulations of the Arab world by the west since WW1 have centred about this subject. But because on every post we do not meet your criteria and narrow window of vision, you fail to see it. I suggest you read Mark Curtis.
Also for someone coming from your POV you do not seem to be aware that the best supporters of Wahhabis are the west and most recently the current government of the Apartheid state.
Why are Arabs / Muslims always painted as victims by some here?
They end up with either the colonial British/French, the Americans or the Israelis as sole moving force for all violence in the ME and around. Mohamed’s ideology was spread from Mecca – Medina to half the globe long before all above came into play: how?
Do Arabs / Muslims have any own responsibility for their actions?
Arabs/Muslims are painted as victims because that is what prevailing ideology demands.
All evil things emanate from the west (US and UK specifically) and all goodness and purity resides outside of the west. Hence the only reason that Saudi Arabia can be a brutally repressive medieval state is because they have been made that way by the Anglo-American Zionist empire.
This explains why somethings (say Palestinians for example) are so endlessly interesting. It explains why other things (say the 1365-1567 Muslim massacre of 500,000 Hindu’s around Vjayanagara) are not at all interesting. So uninteresting are Islamic crimes in India that the very mention of them is likely to attract hordes of screeching banshees screaming the only word in their vocabulary – “Racist”
The only crimes that are interesting in India are the crimes of the British Raj – those crimes remain unique in the evilness perpetrated by evil people. Imagine the disrespect shown to victims of British imperialism by mixing up their fate with the crimes committed by Islam. How many people know or care that the Bahamani Sultans had annual targets to kill at least 100,000 Hindu’s per year. Not relevant. Not interesting. And not relevant and not interesting because there is no plausible way to blame the British or the Americans for these actions.
…anyway it was all a long time ago and as every enlightened person knows there is absolutely nothing worth learning from history. So exactly how did Donald Trump force the Saudi’s to behave like animals, and was he working in concert with Putin?
@Antonyl / antonym
Virtually all muslim terrorist groups were created by western incursions into the Arab world. For somebody so consumed by the issue, how can this most basic fact have elluded you?
…and so Dom steps forward as the voice of sanity in this twisted farrago
What an insightful analysis – just needs the most minor tidying up.
We have the blood soaked history of pre-Raj India including the slaughter of 500,000 Hindu;s in and around Vjayanagara (1365-1367) and Dom omits to mention exactly who in the West was encroaching onto Arab lands thus forcing them to slaughter 500,000 Hindu’s.
Obviously racists and Nazi’s have been at the history books – because a pure lie told by the reactionaries is that in the period encompassing the Vjayanagara massacres England was ruled by Edward 3rd. Reactionaries would have you believe that Edward’s foreign policy was mostly orientated toward France and NOT interfering with the Arab world. Some of the very worst racists and Nazi’s would have you believe that the Black Death (killing about one third of the population) resulted in manpower shortages that necessitated a material reduction in military efforts against France.
Now we stand on the verge of unraveling this great lie. There was no black death and vast English armies were dispatched to the Arab world so as to force Muslims to kill as many Hindu’s as possible.
It would come as no surprise at all to learn that Dom is a multi award winning history teacher.
Very impressive, but the issue at hand is not medieval India. It is the contemporary phenomenon of Muslim terror groups. Those who deny the role of Western incursions into the Arab world and attribute it instead to a barbarity innate to Islam are of course deserving of the term racist.
Oh say it aint so Dom.
One way of approaching problems is to look at the history of the problem. With respect to Islamic terrorism one may ask for how long this problem has been in existence.
Suppose that the history of Islamic terrorism was closely correlated to the rise of Western power. In such an instance it may be plausible to inquire as to cause and effect. However we know that Islamic terrorism long predates the rise of Western power. It is this knowledge that enables us to conclude that modern western power (and abuses of that power) cannot possibly explain the scourge of Islamic terrorism. It is not hard to understand – anyone claiming not to understand is most likely acting with nefarious intent.
Did you know that the word “medieval” refers to a specific period of European history (about AD 600 to 1500). Given this definition any references to “medieval India” are necessarily inchoate. No doubt you are aware that many of your fellow travelers have no hesitation in identifying such errors as constituting a form of racism known as cultural appropriation. The revolution eats itself – always and everywhere. No exceptions.
“Why are Arabs / Muslims always painted as victims by some here?”
What a load of nonsense from you and Loony. Note that there are many ‘Muslims’ in this debate that are not portrayed as as victims. and your backstroke is a clever guise for equating the two. For a start the all the kings and kingdoms created by the Brits and French since Sykes Picot aren;’t. Bigger muslim countries, more numerous than the arabs, Indonesia, Pakistan, and other smaller countries, have never been part of this controversy. It is this blindness to the differences between the Arab World and its equation to Islam that is clouding the discussion for the Islamophobes who want to go back to the 7th century to bolster thier futile arguments.
interesting thread… i mostly agree with sa…. regardless of how far back in history one wants to go, lets call a spade a spade here.. the usa and the uk have used the wahabbi headchopping cult as a means of leverage in the mid east.. the reason ksa and israel are ‘’friends’’ is based on this same rationale… hoping to use this death cult as a means of leverage by letting ksa export it to pakistan, and etc etc, can’t be whitwashed away, no matter how far back in history you want to go…. and, the truth of this allaine with ksa and all it entails has been brought to the foreground via kashoggis death… it was always sitting there for one to see, but the msm and political leader of the west was happy to remain silent on this as long as it served its purpose… the regime change in syria has not gone as planned, and the war on iran is looking more tentative now due the infighting among this same group of conspirators that wishedthe kashoggi event hadn’t shone such a bright light on this dark regime, its ideology and the western leadership apologists who have been quite okay with them up until now anyway…
save the india history lesson for another conversation..
How many lies can one person tell and how many victims can be posthumously kicked in the head?
So Indonesia has never been part of the problem Try telling that to the 250,000 East Timorese that were slaughtered by Indonesian forces. East Timor not so interesting? Why say hello to the 2002 Bali bombings killing a mere 202 people but including some 88 Australians.
Pakistan is not part of the problem. Why not ask how Pakistan came into being in the first place. It had nothing to do with Sykes-Picot and everything to do with blood lust. How is the non problematic Pakistan getting on in modern times? Not so well is the answer. There is no shortage of examples – but here is a relatively small example that carries no obvious strategic significance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35341256
Ask yourself is this the kind of behavior you would like to instill in your own children. Do you think schools should have a duty to foster such behavior? Should blasphemy be punished by amputation? Would your friends and family be proud of you should you have the courage to engage in the same behavior?
Do you not see that examples such as this have absolutely nothing to do with the people of the west. No matter how omnipotent you feel yourself to be as a (naturally non racist) citizen of the west, this has nothing whatsoever to do with you.
Thank you Loony for those bits about Indonesia and Pakistan. Because you know what, they are perhaps not part of the Arab problem but they are indeed part of the bloody history of the empire, initially British and later both British and U S.
You perhaps do not want to be reminded about the bloody regime of Suharto who was a creation of the west. You also do not wish to be reminded of the artificial carving up of Pakistan from the subcontinent and the ethnic cleansing of both parts as a result. Instead you want to go back several centuries to justify your current islamophobic narrative.
Thanks SA for proving my point. OBL couldn’t have said it better himself.
You write as if Jesus was the last “Messenger of God” but Mohamed disagreed: instead of “turning the other cheek” we have got physical Jihad, no matter how much you deny it. A long bloody history exists to prove this, till today.
Antonyl
Not sure why you decided to change your name. Anyway, you completely got the wrong end of the stick if you think I am a supporter of jihad or indeed of any violence that is advocated by all three Abrahamic religions. Violence is part of the old and New Testaments as well as of the Quran. Just refer to the sacking of Jericho and other events and to the book of revelations. Blood curdling stuff. The history of each religion attempting to persuade others of its unique righteousness in a blood drenched way is well shown in the history of the invasion of South and also of North America and the slave trade and all coloniser cultures including the present Apartheid state. The history and accompanying atrocities of the crusaids is also well known. But you know we can always go back to the very beginning of history or choose specific episodes in the history of mankind, which also contains many foundation myths for the sake of showing how god prefers you to others, whilst at the same time hypocritically professing to believe in the individibility of equality amongst people and universality of human rights.
To get back to the topic. Anyone knows now that the modern rise of jihadism has its roots in two events. The colonisation of Palestine by settlers and the fight against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. These events were encouraged and in some cases armed by the west. In your rather tunnel visioned analyses you fail to mention or notice that the foremost suppliers of arms to jihadists are the Saudis and gulf states and that these together with the US and the apartheid state are all in cahoots trying to destroy any form of independent modernism in other Arab countries.
Khashoggi was a CIA middle-man while he was embedded with Al Qaeda as a “journalist” and photographed carrying weapons, he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood political movement, as is Erdogan. Al Qaeda and it’s offspring are the militant side of that movement. The Muslim Brotherhood is a globalist Islamist “democratic” organization that wishes to establish a Caliphate through “democracy” or revolution. The US Democratic Party and their Deep-State are strong supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, together they have helped organize the so called “Arab Spring”.
The Saudi monarchy have had a love-hate relationship with Al Qaeda, as long as they (and their offspring) can be “controlled” and can help in the overthrow of secular regimes of neighboring countries they would be tolerated and supported as long as they did not touch the status quo in Saudi Arabia.
Khashoggi went to Turkey to establish a base and organize the overthrow of the Saudi monarchy, hence the reason he got killed and the outcry from ex-CIA chief Brennan and other Democrats.
In your opinion…
and mine
Completely agree about the Arab spring stuff and Muslim brotherhood stuff, and the CIA al Qaeda stuff is public knowledge, dave, but I can’t comment on the rest. It isn’t clear what kashoggi was in the frame for. The Ottoman Empire was a proper shit show for all the conquered peoples. The Armenians suffered worst, in unimaginable ways, and the Palestinians loved the Brits, who liberated them, and then didn’t stick around, they were abandoned so soon after. The crushing of secular countries across the ME has been because they embraced democracy, and as we now know, democracy is won by the highest bidder. The Muslim brotherhood has a lot of money behind it. Egypt wishes it still had Mubarak, but at least the military keeps out the insurgents now.
I’ve read some conspiritorial nonsense in my time ~ beejeesuz
“Turkey claimed the Ottoman Caliphate between 1362 and 1918.”
If Wiki says that, it’s wrong. The Caliphate wasn’t available till after 1517, and I believe I’ve seen it said that the claim was still later.
It is curious that something so patently obvious as Erogan’s Califate ambition continues to be ignored by State. Erdogan is the loose-cannon NATO ally who plays Russia, the Saudis, Syria, and Iraq off against each other so he has a free hand in taking over the entire region. His actions are scarcely different from Hitler’s Euro-imperialist aims. The only thing slowing his pace is that Turkey is surrounded by bad guys with lots of guns. Locking up all the West-leaning generals precluded a coup, but Erdogan’s army is now led by 2nd-stringers untested in battle.
From my perch on the sidelines, the US’s best weapon against Turkey would be an alliance with Iran. Of course, US made itself their enemy for reasons long overcome by events. Unlike Iraq and Syria, Iranians are not ethnic Arabs. They are very well-educated, share a Western worldview, and they are not interested in exporting their religion. LIke the Roman Catholics a millennium ago, Muslim clerics mitigate political disunity. They are not the real political power in the country.
“It is curious that something so patently obvious as Erogan’s Califate ambition continues to be ignored by State.”
Probably because it’s not the case, apart from in fevered imaginations. They did talk about Ottomanism, as a way of reviving relations with the Arab world, but that quickly disappeared. Erdogan’s main interest is beating down the Kurds beyond the frontier.
‘The Turkish account of the murder of Khashoggi given by President Erdogan is true, in every detail.’
What? A politician who tells the truth in every detail? Really? Unicorns exist? You don’t think he was tempted to slip in just a wee bit of misinformation?
So, for there to be a positive outcome, we have to hope that the UK media will keep this story on the front page…..
Here’s my comment on the Saudi’s use of noise canceling headphones: https://youtu.be/ioDbcYnCHFM
I wonder what they were listening to? Musical instruments are haram according to their state religion. I suppose a Nasheed cranked up loud enough will still drown out the dying screams and gurgles of the poor slob you’re hacking to death.
@Baalbek,
Musical instruments are found throughout the Middle East and Asia, they are certainly NOT Haram for the majority of Muslims.
Spoof, the misspelt text and sped up audio says it all.
This part of the narrative doesn’t work for me Bob. If all members had headphones (unlikely), they would know what to do if the chief vivisectionist put on his.
You make a good point, Charles Frith. I tend to agree with you, however, unlike the Saudi narrative, one would think the official Turkey narrative would be careful to maintain its credibility. Perhaps an audio or video of it will eventually be leaked—or not.
While the murder of Khashoggi is awful, it is more so because people are horrified by the claimed process. However, death is death and murder is murder and one cannot help but be struck by the silence over assassinations carried out by the US and its allies, or the assassinations of Iranian scientists and Hamas leaders, carried out by Israel
“they are not from a fixed position camera and appear at first sight consistent with the idea they are taken by a device brought in by the victim.”
Did Khashoggi film his own murder? Did the killers film the murder and then give the film to Turkey? Neither of these make any sense.
Based on the reaction of the MSM it may appear that the US wants to get rid of MBS, but that doesn’t really make any sense either. Usually when the MSM points in one direction, the truth lies in the opposite direction.
Frank , can’t claim this is true, but I remember reading that a lot of journalists use technology that immediately uploads what they record, just in case .
So the argument is that the killers filmed it _unaware_ that the device was streaming to some online service?
But then how did Turkey get it? Did they capture the live stream? Did they take it from the online service? How did they know where to look? How did they know it was being filmed in the first place?
A lot of assumptions and unanswered questions if you ask me.
Some reports stated he used an Apple watch to stream live audio to a cloud service.
Streaming
screaming
as long as it is only a claim, no pics/video, i take it as false.
Just for the record, Jamal Kashoggi is the nephew of Adnan Kashoggi, ‘Mr. Big’ of the ‘Merchants of Death’ (as arms traders used to be called) in the 70’s and ’80’s (and perhaps the ’60’s). Adnan died last year.
yes and his aunt is married to Mohammed al Fayed whose son Dodi was the death-partner of Diana, Princess of Wales in Paris and Adnan’s wife was the mother of Jonathan Aitken’s daughter Petrina…..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1393295/Petrina-Khashoggi-Its-hard-Jonathan-Aitkens-love-child.html
Ecuador likely to turn Assange over to US – ex-President Correa
24 Oct, 2018 01:48
‘“The Ecuadorian state has to protect Assange’s rights, he is not just an asylum [seeker]; he is a citizen,” Correa said. Granted Ecuadorian citizenship back in 2017, Assange is now supposed to be protected by the Ecuadorian constitution. But the current government is too desperate for Washington’s favor, Correa believes.
The WikiLeaks co-founder might be a bargaining chip in an agreement between the Ecuadorian authorities and US Vice President Mike Pence, who visited the Latin American country and met with President Lenin Moreno earlier this year. Quito’s behavior shows that it has “absolutely submitted” to Washington without actually earning any favor, Correa said.
His comments came a week after two US lawmakers called on Moreno to “hand Assange over to the proper authorities,” calling him “a dangerous criminal and a threat to global security.”
In the letter, representatives Eliot Engel (D-NY) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) spoke about the US willingness “to move forward in collaborating” with Moreno’s government, mulling enhanced economic cooperation and development aid from the US. They portrayed Assange as an obstacle on the way to a bright future together for the two nations.’
https://www.rt.com/news/442087-correa-assange-ecuador-us/
Of note. Engel is strongly supportive of Israel –
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Democrat-Engel-prepares-to-work-with-Trump-on-Israel-484405
as is Ros-Lehtinen – https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israel-honors-Congresswomen-Ros-Lehtinen-as-a-defender-of-Israel-570078
That ceremony took place on Tuesday when ‘Bibi’ bestowed the honour.
Apparently, according to liberal MSM you could write how Trump could be assassinated though, unbelivable!
NY Times: Who’s up for a short story about Trump being assassinated?
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/24/ny-times-whos-trump-assassination-story/
Head honcho brought in to do the hatchet job at Debenhams, Sergio Bucher, was ‘poached’ from Amazon in 2016 on an initial salary of £3.84m! Talk of 50 stores for closure.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/26/debenhams-hires-amazons-sergio-bucher-as-new-chief-executive
‘Sir Ian Cheshire, who became Debenhams’ chairman last month after running B&Q owner Kingfisher for years, said: “Sergio’s wealth of e-commerce expertise, international experience and clear leadership qualities stood out. I am confident we have the best possible person to realise the potential of ‘new Debenhams’ as a leading international multichannel retailer with a bright future.”
He added: “He is a retailer and loves shops and people. It’s a real win for Debenhams.”
Of course Sir Ian. But not for the staff and the suppliers.
There is considerable investment in Debenhams by funds, banks, etc
http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=DEB
The fall in the share price (there is a listing on the London Stock Exchange) will have an effect on everybody’s pension. The price today is 9.49. Five years ago it was 99.45
https://ir.debenhams.com/
Ashley of SportsRite bought a 14% share in the store group in 2014.
PS I am neither a Debenhams shopper or shareholder.
“PS I am neither a Debenhams shopper or shareholder.” & “will have an effect on everybody’s pension.”
I gather you aren’t from the UK then?
So they have kitchen-sinked the accounts at Debenhams and will blow out the stock to TK Maxx and do a job on the lessors. There is no future in bricks and mortar stores like Debenhams in the Online Era and until you pedestrianise town centres you will not revive in-town shopping
“I have not seen the video from inside the consulate, but have been shown stills which may be from a video.”
I find it a little streange that you say all this, but don’t say what the image showed.
There was a reference to a Skype call documenting the events for a Saudi controller. This may explain the movement in the video. Certainly the Apple watch theory is bunkum.
Skype can easily be intercepted simply on the request of a competent authority – in this instance the Turkish Government seem likely. The intercept has to be requested in advance, so if it was the Turks they must have had an inkling about what would happen.
It’s not so easy if Iridium or other Sat Phones are used. Embassies use advance cryptography all the time by the way. I would expect the Saudi’s to have strong encription.
If Skype is used and there is an intercept in place then the encryption keys are provided by Skype, not by the end-points, The traffic is routed via Skype servers rather than peer to peer and Skype gets to see and hear everything in the session.
Skype doesn’t need a warrant to do this. It generally just does whatever a ‘competent authority’ asks it to do.
What tripe, any encryption can piggy-back existing platforms, try this simple code…”irrelevant your is post incorrect and”
“I would expect the Saudi’s to have strong encription”
I would not expect them to have even modest “encryption”. Saudis are not intelligent like Iranians and are probably wide open to Israeli Unit 8200
Anyway I should think there are Russian bugs all over that embassy and Erdogan got to play postman
The embassy was bugged. They didn’t need to intercept the Skype. They were recording it.
it was not an embassy it was a consulate. important distinction diplomatically.
Loons on here believe anything he says, without any evidence, he claims he has x,y & z and evidence unavailable to the public. Anonymous sources etc. This is all laughable.
O/T, but possibly of interest.
Three weeks before Skripal poisoning, the British Marines conducted a Toxic Dagger chemical exercise in Salisbury.
https://mobile.twitter.com/haloefekti/status/1053680656230834176
looks like a porton down exercize, which coincidentally enough is what this whole fact free, novichok nonsense is about too….connect the dots much?
Thanks Craig for daring to proffer your neck or other organs by testifying against the Saud’s. Erdogan, USUKIS et cetera have form in using fake video. I have personally seen a human prop garnered with full islamist beard on a flight to Iraq. Nobody should ever trust digital media because it can be. The ultra corrupt usukis want their very own Muslim bastardhood in power in the Muslim countries. Not the Saudis who go by Islam. Nasties like erdogan who are pure terrorists. Yes usukis is that bonkers.
Bonkers bonkers bonkers = usukis
Can be faked.
This whole story reeks of fake news by NATO. That’s what they do. Nothing but fake news ever gets into the MSM ergo this whole story is bawlorcs
Hello Craig,
Alas no immediate let-up in Yemen. Today’s reports are of a resumption of Amaliqa attempts on Hodeidah. Each one has brought them closer to the city centre. Middle East Eye has now attributed earlier articles to Khashoggi. His analysis of some of the political power games in Yemen was particularly good. It’s almost impossible to expect outsiders to be able to disentangle the complexities sufficient to find the levers to pull to produce a solution.
Abdulaziz bin Fahd, who features in the BBC report, voluntarily returned to Saudi to be arrested. He is still locked away more than a year later, although there are recent indications that some form of agreement is close to permit his release. There are others who no doubt fear similar treatment but for whom there can be little sympathy. Like Abdulaziz, they have been or are too much part of the system which seeks to silence or punish them.
Sorry, but where is the evidence of audio & video recordings? As per CNBC, Erdogan made no mention of audio recordings. That would be Turkish officials, but no official claim has been made either by Erdogan nor Anadolu. Then, there is the “Washington Post says that Haspel listened to audio, according to sources” (what sources?).
Then we have the “Turks have found the remains of Khashoggi in the Consul’s garden”. Then it turns out the Turkish police have found no such thing, and that the inquiry carries on.
Thankfully, you have seen stills, so we can be assured that at least, something exists.
Then, there is what you point out with the piece about the abducted Saudi dissidents. But one detail seems important to me: in each of those three cases, the kidnappings were done in a very discreet, efficient and professional manner. What could have been simpler than doing what the Saudis use to do and drug Khashoggi, take him out of the consulate through a back door, dump him in a private jet and take off? They even achieved doing this in Switzerland, one of the richest, hence heavily policed countries in the world.
Why the spectacular staging, the sending of a 15-strong “hit squad” (to kill ONE man !) to be filmed by every bleeding CCTV camera in Istanbul? Plus, why send MbS bodyguards? Don’t they have assassins nobody knows in Saudi Arabia, what with all their home-grown terrorists?
That, and many more elements that don’t fly make me think what we have here is a Skripal Squared. Why is another matter. Some commentator on Zerohedge said that it all looked like an operation meant to sever the ties between Saudi Arabia and the US, which could well be true. There is a lot happening in the ME, and the US is becoming cumbersome in those parts of the world (not to mention everywhere else).
BTW, why did the old king bin Salman order Russian S-400?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-saudi-arabia-missiles-deal-sell-s-400-putin-air-defence-latest-a7997986.html
S-400 is far superior to Patriot system and even Israel has found Iron Dome is a bit sleepy when incoming rockets drop in. Saudi wants to diversify away from US kit and insure itself with Russia especially with Turkey now setting up bases in Qatar
Craig is referred to within this.
October 25, 2018
Khashoggi Drama – A Deal Has Been Made But Will It Hold?
A preliminary deal has been made between the Turkish president Erdogan and the al-Saud clan in Saudi Arabia. The case of Jamal Khashoggi, killed in Istanbul by bodyguards of the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman, will be closed for now.
Over the last 36 hours, since Erdogan’s speech proved Saudi culpability, there have been no more damaging leaks about the case from the usual Turkish sources.
/..
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/10/khashoggi-drama-a-deal-has-been-made-but-will-it-hold.html#
O/T but important:
‘US RECONNAISSANCE PLANE OPERATED DRONES THAT ATTACKED RUSSIAN AIRBASE IN SYRIA: DEFENSE MINISTRY’:
https://southfront.org/us-reconnaissance-plane-operated-drones-that-attacked-russian-airbase-in-syria-defense-ministry/
also: ‘SECRETARY OF RUSSIAN SECURITY COUNCIL WARNS OF GROWING TERRORIST ACTIVITY IN SIBERIA’:
https://southfront.org/secretary-of-russian-security-council-warns-of-growing-terrorist-activity-in-siberia/
Link those with the recent massive NATO ‘Excercise’ in Northern Europe, and it does not bode well for world peace.
“O/T but important:” everything on this site is O/T
I think you should take it for granted that War between NATO and Russia/China commenced some time ago on the Boiling Frog Principle most Westerners have not yet noticed that the reaction time.reflex time for Russia has been rendered negative thanks to deployment of Mk41 launchers in Romania and Poland and the amount of materiel being deployed in advance storage areas.
Russia will either need to rely on Perimetr or go for full pre-emptive strike because the certainty of a US/NATO attack is writ large…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiGDJ5-dXaI. @1:36.50
If you were shown stills, it’s plausible you were shown them by the same people who harass you. MI6 and Muslim Brotherhood very close.
Britain couldn’t provide any video, or audio over Skripal, so I don’t see what you’re talking about
If in violation of Art 55 Vienna Convention on Consular Facilities murder and dismemberment is acknowledged to be prevalent in Consulates and Embassies WHO in their right mind would ever enter such a facility again ?
The same applies to the bugging of such embassies by host states.
ALL embassies are bugged. – go read up on Peter Wright “Spycatcher”
Have you never worked in offices which are regularly swept for bugs ?
So, we support and shield a regime which exports it’s most radical elements across the globe, whom we find as convenient instruments of regime change or bogeyman, whom then attack us, within and without, because we used them to advance regime change beneficial to us, but against their radical traits, which we knew all along, but funded with training, succour, weapons, disregard for their illicit drug trading, and connection to the regime we supported and shielded, against whom, ironically, the supporters and shielders propagandize and demonise their own populations with “islamophobia” and “Global Wars against terrorism(tactic)”, whilst supporting and shielding the very regime that ships them off to attack us, to who’s money the globalists and polithiefians would love to wallow in, to continue to heap neo-liberal servitude upon populations they stir up, with the very trait, the regime we support and shield brainwash and export.
All because, Iran ?
Bloody hell, that was hard ! It’s still not right……
“we” ???? You might be “we” but I am not. I don’t get my offshore bank account filled with Saudi money, I don’t get nice contracts or directorships or consultancies or PR contracts.
It is pretty obvious who does and how they perform for their paymasters
Paul,
Apologies. By “we”, I meant the FUKUS coalition.
Thanks Tunde, for getting P.G to advertise his offshore account here
Hilarious, the world is aghast at the actions of a drug fiend with power, no doubt holding a few more offshore accounts than P.G, forgetting its humanitarian rules and regs, the organisations which proffer the latter.
Are humans really intelligent? Or just deviously bored with their lives?
MBS needs drug councilling imho, as well as a reminder that he is not sitting next to his maker, but in his cellar.
Just as the NDA story is being diverted , a wrung out dry towel with no substance or change in sight, bye bye Berc and cow, we are having our attention flooded with fluff
Those in power due to their psychopathic nature need removing. By any means, hire MBS s hit squad, he then can take himself out putting a stamp and seal on the madness and Angst for resources that has engulfed brains.
Fracking is a crime!
Offshore residents have so much trouble maintaining UK accounts without UK residency………..
The West just doesn’t care – nothing will stop the ridiculously lucrative trade in arms.
Despicable though the Sauds are they are not yet executing their own nationals on foreign soil by targeting them with remote-controlled drone-launched missiles which spares us the sordid spectacle of ‘collateral damage’. I can think of at least two western governments that carry out extrajudicial killings – including its own citizens – in other peoples’ countries then have the hypocrisy to appear squeamish when their allies follow suit.
Thank you, Craig, once again for bringing the truth to light.
The Saudis have built up a remarkable ‘civilisation’ – without the civilised bit, eh?
No mourning from me for the K man and his ilk. What we’d all like to see is SA to lose all its political capital. Yet, as you allude, the ‘family’ and its enablers have more money than they can ever spend and they need to make a lot of bribes for people to look the other way at their despicable lives and their disregard for everyone, particularly women.
love your work, bro
In Washington, the US Press and parliamentarians demanded that President Trump raise sanctions against Riyadh.
One of MBS’s advisors, Turki Al-Dakhil, replied that if the US were to sanction the kingdom, Saudi Arabia would be ready to destabilise the world order. In the tradition of the desert Bedouins, all insults must be avenged whatever the cost.
According to Al-Dakhil, the kingdom was preparing some thirty measures, the most significant being to :
– Reduce the production of oil to 7.5 million barrels per day, provoking a raise in prices of about 200 dollars per barrel. The kingdom would demand to be paid in other currencies than the dollar, which would bring about the end of US hegemony ;
– Move away from Washington and move closer to Teheran ;
– Buy arms from Russia and China. The kingdom would offer Russia a military base in Tabuk, in the North-East of the country, in other words, close to Syria, Israël, Lebanon and Iraq ;
– Immediately begin supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article203589.html
US does not have a Parliament………it does not even have Ministers and they are not elected. Only one Member of The Executive is elected and he is the designated successor of George III who was “elected” by Parliament and his descendants “selected” under Act of Succession 1707 as revised 2013.
Funnily enough US President is elected through Electoral College much like English Prime Minister who is elected by MPs themselves elected in Constituencies which are in effect an Electoral College. The Veep is akin to Prince of Wales being a Member of The Senate just as PoW is a Member of HoL
Thank you Craig for a thoughtful analysis. I guess people like MbS could like the white line or two but in this case, I think he has a cold. It is a brief piece but he is sharp and focused. It might be more worthy of analysis if the gathering went for an hour or more and we could watch it all. Two minutes is really insufficient to draw any conclusion for me.
I cannot comprehend how anyone would assume their embassy would not be bugged in Turkey ESPECIALLY Saudi Arabia. So even if the order did not come from MbS then there was a clear intention to send a message to all who would buck or criticise KSA.
The visit by Gina Haspel was a truly gruesome touch so I guess Kushner might have a sense of humour after all. Something like a Blackadder sense of humour.
If this was some sort of setup by the dark state crims of MI6 and CIA then it is seriously cack handed but different that’s for sure.
My guess is that the Saudis are so used to bumping off their opponents that they didn’t realize how controversial it was going to be.
Here is an interview (link from Facebook) with Kashoggi’s friend, an Al Jazeera journalist. Wheels within wheels. https://www.facebook.com/trtworld/videos/1938359336457920/?hc_ref=ARQ8oHYuheE_MEpXINDWBMq3utHrhGpW_1qRfZeOpTQ9ulKufzceaST6wShhkPkbi58&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBeGnbIus8QTRGEX14qBplnXiUggn1iUiK9jz4bFu8XDfblK0AEdPV-LczZLW6XLDKMNpAQVPk9aNW9hqv9OvQVTT9g7sPWi0MFhaXra2F8fJ0Wu5Sv9QNDSSJtUBDp70bK5of-nT_qL510B1Cw03rvYc8sCBogZ6w-s4II_5Pz61CnTK1YvpY14BagRjMMDMt0U6RQMnn4si6UBLVwIsD9r5heveyGuDUKT7QIsrcjJpF9zlkb5WBNOmKYXrv6sm8&__tn__=FC-R
Craig, you are at your best when providing commentary on international relations incidents like this. Thank you.
FWIW: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7559690/jamal-khashoggi-body-parts-disfigured-face-found-saudi-consulate-instanbul-garden-2/