I have just received confirmation from the Metropolitan Police Press Bureau that both the European Arrest Warrant and Interpol Red Notice remain in the names of Boshirov and Petrov, with the caveat that both are probably aliases. Nothing has been issued in the name of Chepiga or Mishkin.
As for Bellingcat’s “conclusive and definitive evidence”, Scotland Yard repeated to me this afternoon that their earlier statement on Bellingcat’s allegations remains in force: “we are not going to comment on speculation about their identities.”
It is now a near certainty that Boshirov and Petrov are indeed fake identities. If the two were real people, it is inconceivable that by now their identities would not have been fully established with details of their history, lives, family and milieu. I do not apologise for exercising all due caution, rather than enthusiasm, about a narrative promoted to increase international tension with Russia, but am now convinced Petrov and Boshirov were not who they claimed.
But that is not to say that the information provided by NATO Photoshoppers’R’Us (Ukraine Branch) on alternative identities is genuine, either. I maintain the same rational scepticism exhibited by Scotland Yard on this, and it is a shame that the mainstream media neither does that, nor fairly reflects Scotland Yard’s position in their reporting.
Still less do I accept the British government’s narrative of the novichok poisoning, which remains full of wild surmise and apparent contradiction. No doubt further evidence will gradually emerge. The most dreadful thing about the whole saga is the death of poor Dawn Sturgess, and the most singular fact at present is that Boshirov and Petrov are only wanted in relation to the “attack on the Skripals”. There is no allegation against them by Scotland Yard or the Crown Prosecution Service over the far more serious matter of the death of Sturgess. That is a fascinating fact, massively under-reported.
I remain of the view that the best way forward would be for Putin to negotiate conditions under which Boshirov and Petrov might voluntarily come to the UK for trial. The conditions which I would suggest Russia propose are these:
1) A fully fair and open trial before a jury.
2) The entire trial to be fully public. No closed sessions nor secret evidence and no reporting restrictions.
3) No restrictions on witnesses who may be called, including the Skripals, Pablo Miller, Christopher Steele and other former and current members of the security services.
4) No restrictions on disclosure – all relevant material held by government must be given to the defence.
I strongly suspect that, if a trial would bring to public light something of the extent of the convoluted spy games that were being played out in Salisbury, we would find the British Government’s pretended thirst for justice would suddenly slam into reverse.
Sadly, it currently seems highly improbable that either justice will be served or the full truth be known.
Seriously concerned about this article Craig, know it’s not what you believe, i’m worried about you. Think the scum Tories are pressuring you, hope you’re alright.
Saving this comment as a record, God we live in an evil, Western force world, their way or no way they say. Russian fighter planes and ordinance is better, nor does it control their allies like the US does, you’re putting yourself up against a force which has no worries fighting you US. Seriously think the US will lose bad against an opponent who can fight back hard, there’s a gentle confidence about Russia compared to Western histronics.
Just hope you’re ok Craig
You are right to be wary of British justice, look what happened to Giuseppe Conlon and his son.
The British government is up to its eyeballs in having tried to stop President Trump from being elected. “Ex-Mi6 operative Mr Steele” and David Halpern part of that scam.
The anti-Russia hysteria is to deflect from Trump debacle, and to continue to demonise Russia.
The Skripal event was a Psyop. If the Russian state had wanted Yulia Skripal and Sergei Skripal dead, Yulia could have been killed at anytime in Russia.
The Met – The cops with truncheons and CS spray, unable to stop “mad Massood” in the Westminster scam.
Please stand up for free speech Craig, by not censoring this comment.
I am just shocked at your comment, Craig. You are living proof of the effectiveness of UK government propaganda, similar to some of the progressives in TYT in the States fallling for ‘repeat often enough, and we will believe in Russiagate’. Your falling for the prima facie trap of bothering to even look at facial recognition when there is no credible link established between the Boshirov photos and the obviously faked supposed Chepiga photo.
Somehow you also believe the Russian government should forsake its own laws, and the international laws on joint criminal investigation with the UK, and bow down to the PR-trial that the UK government has already established. May declared Russia guilty prior to any start of an investigation. Subsequent to that, they have unofficially delegated the ridiculous investigation to Bellingcat.
I do not believe for a moment that Boshirov and Petrov are not who they say they are. Of course they have something to hide – we all do – and they don’t want to be in the limelight. Power to them. The whole throwdown to Boshirov and Petrov is a ruse. The guilty party is obviously much closer to the UK, probably their own intel services, and both the Met and Scotland Yard have been served notice to play along. And where they don’t want to play along, they had to agree to be quiet. Only that explains the amount of fluff and holes in this story.
I think Craig is right to infer that if Boshirov and Petrov were real identities we would know all about them by now. Whether Russia *ought* to be subject to trial by media-orchestrated public opinion is neither here nor there. That’s the propaganda terrain the Russians have to compete on, and that’s why the video of them was put out in the first place.
If we assume Boshirov and Petrov are Russian agents of some sort, then the obvious assumption is that their presence in Salisbury is linked to the attacks, very likely as perpetrators. So the main government case, though initially put very incompetently, now looks much more plausible.
But obviously, there’s a lot of other aspects of the case, not least the Skripals’ total disappearance, the order on Pablo Miller, etc, that suggest another aspect of the story, which is what critical journalists should be looking for. Indeed, unless we can figure that out, it still seems incredible as to why anyone would target the Skripals in the first place.
I find the notion that anyone in the vicinity when a criminal act occurs must be guilty by association a far cheaper means of extracting confessions. I am surprised Salisbury was not hit with a drone attack or a punitive strike on residential districts to force the insurgents to confess their crimes. I did not see any marches in Salisbury by people shouting “not in our name” or refuting Salisbury’s image as a drug den riddled with military assets and bio-chemical weapons stocks. France should launch cruise missiles to knock out these facilities until UK proves it has destroyed all its bio-chemical weapons stocks
I take it you believe “Pablo Miller” is a real identity. So how come we don’t “know all about” him by now?
Perhaps Bellingcat can help?
We Do.
We know his background in military.
We know his diplomatic and spy work in Europe.
We know he wa in the FO after that.
The he retired to Salisbury.
That’s quite a profile.
And what was he doing before, during and after the Skripal affair? What were/are his connections with Skripal?
Josh, I think “shocked” must surely be a bit of an exaggeration. Craig has been saying for weeks that he didn’t believe Boshirov and Petrov were who they said they were — even I know that and I find this whole subject utterly stupid and irrelevant.
You can validate this, of course, by looking at Craig’s articles from say 4 or 5 weeks ago. His reasoning then as now was that if they were genuine characters they’d have more of a social media presence and there’d be more information about them online.
There’s a few people suggesting that this article by Craig represents some sort of capitulation. I wish it was true but the truth is that it contains almost nothing that he hasn’t been saying for months.
Sure Hatuey, and Stephen, there is a line in Craig’s comments. But let me put something else: I don’t know Craig’s fluency in Russian. I am fluent. I watched the interview. I totally ‘get’ the jist and emotions of Boshirov and Petrov. And I totally also understand their approach to both social networks and privacy. If by the end of the interview with Simonyan they didn’t understand that they were fully on their own, then they were stupid. They are not majorly clever, cunning or criminal. They do have some secrets. Even from Putin’s initial comments and smile I take that he thinks they’re gay. Seriously, it is exactly how gay fitness trainers with an apparently straight life and a somewhat questionable undeclared fitness vitamin business would conduct themselves.
Evdokimova completely took out the Chepiga story with facts inside of the first 24 hours – Russian only. TV Rain/Radio Rain Moscow (a pro-West and anti-Kremlin private small channel in Moscow) exposed the fallacy of some reported facts of the Mishkin story. Comments on various boards show the fallacy of Mishkin’s supposed birthplace. The documents are shown to be false. The two stories are made-up, obviously by someone with a Ukraine chip on the shoulder. Both rely on ‘sources that want to remain anonymous’.
Key Bellingcat: bad Photoshop. Choose remote location to delay Russian fingerpointing and make unlikely Western analysis. Throw in some Ukraine. Use one or two (not too bright) Ukrainian SBU people. Mix it all up and write a story. Remember pictures will speak louder than words. Get the idiots to do facial recognition and get lost in the software. Oh, and let’s not forget, make them heroes of Russia. Seriously guys, if that is not a total giveaway, what is? Like when in Russiagate, all of a sudden the NYT had to insist that it was Putin himself who commanded it all? Those of us who know Russia and Putin just burst out laughing. As here.
Boshirov and Petrov may not be too smart but after the interview with Simonyan they got some good advice. There is NO WAY that anything they say will be believed. So just disappear for a while.
Key is: where are the Skripals? How stupid is the government’s case? No wonder Agatha Christie chose a Belgian to use his grey cells. The bloody Brits were too stupid to get beyond their own navel.
” Even from Putin’s initial comments and smile I take that he thinks they’re gay”
” Seriously, it is exactly how gay fitness trainers with an apparently straight life and a somewhat questionable undeclared fitness vitamin business would conduct themselves”
Now I am starting to feel sorry for B&P (not that there is anything wrong with being gay). Can’t you think of nicer way to defend a couple of your national heros? Why won’t the top brass ever take responsibility instead of dragging the working man through the mud? Perhaps Putin is also gay, if he had that knowing smile???
PS Josh, your expertise on gay people along with perfect English is the give away that you are Russian. These are the kind of snide remarks people used to make, but don’t anymore.
Andrew H, strangely enough I had a rather err interesting and erotic dream about President Putin!!
Josh:“No wonder Agatha Christie chose a Belgian to use his grey cells.”
We have a new super detective now – he is called Eliot Higgens.
Josh::”The bloody Brits were too stupid to get beyond their own navel.”
As least we are not as effing stupid as the Russians whose secret service can’t keep their agents’ identities secret. Why wouldn’t someone suggest tweaking the birth-date when creating a false identity? Are you not slightly embarrassed to be suggesting the Brits are stupid?
Hatuey, myself and some of my friends do not use social media at all so have no profile in this arena. Many, not some, people are quite capable of living private, unremarkable lives without being on full view on Facebook, twitter and other social media forums.
That’s true, but you don’t have a business. It is mostly impossible to run any kind of business without customers. The story doesn’t add up and it definitely doesn’t add up when you start to think that one of these two seems to have the same birth date as a decorated Russian GRU agent.
It also doesn’t make sense to go into hiding in this scenario when you are innocent – these two clearly like to go around visiting the sites of European cathedrals and if civilians it wouldn’t be that difficult for them to prove they have an address, a family and a normal civilian life.
P&B=P&B? Interesting thought! I would agree based one the RT interview with them alone. But could Bellingcat really risk being revealed as blatant liars and manipulators to everybody, say, if the Russians now decided to present P&B+ CH&M together + family & friends i some TV talkshow, with a lot of convincing filmed background stuff on each? (Russian government could claim everything was 100% unofficially arranged).
Apart from this I stay with the version that these guys probably were paid as private persons to go to England at a certain time, agents or not. (Chepiga, say, was not in active service for the moment, and needed money for his next exclusive car). Paid by the real perpetrators, fanatics who primarily wanted blame put on Russia: Ukrainians or even anti-trumpian Americans. Skripal himself may have been of little interest per se. (But still needed to be warned/scared for some reason, who knows).
Britain wouldn’t accept those conditions but Russia wouldn’t propose them either. If we assume Petrov & Bodhirov are aliases, then the obvious assumption is (given their RT appearance) that they are Russian agents. Their presence in Salisbury is then almost certainly linked to the poisonings, probably as perpetrators, but if not, they were presumably still up to no good in some way or another.
It still remains unclear as to why anyone in Russia would target the Skripals in the first place. That should be the question for critical journalists to turn to now. Unfortunately there don’t seem to be very many critical journalism around.
if not, they were presumably still up to no good in some way or another.
Really ? Would you say the ams if Jews were in the area, that they were Mossad ?
Craig, why would you expect us to believe the details you’ve included in this blog without any evidence? Do you have any proof of your correspondence with the metropolitan police? Why would you assume that they would tell you details of this highly sensitive case?
It sounds lovely like you’ve finally flipped.
Those are the standard statements from the Metropolitan Police that have been given and quoted hundreds of times already.
Looks like Craig has lost it.
Or maybe somebody’s hijacked your website Craig? The GRU or GCHQ are more than capable of posting on this site.
Any word of the Michkin Putin photo that his mother claims she has?
Clarityn, it sounds like your feelings have been hurt or something… what’s the matter?
Thanks for your continuing seriousness Craing, if I could comment here on another reasonable analysis here of a parallel ‘bonkers’ situation from a UKUSA partner government.
This is the world’s most valuable company’s take on further mad/bad five-eyes spooks irrationally pushing the international agenda. If this is what Aus wants, then it’s what we •all• want?
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/10/12/apple-criticizes-australia-anti-encryption-bill/
So I’m expected to believe that these two dudes were able to secure visas from the UK Border Agency which completely missed the obvious intelligence ties of these men and *then* I’m supposed to believe that bellingcat was able to dig out the truth on them without too much bother?
No. Just no.
If either of these things are true and/or believable, it’s really the UK Border Agency that has a lot of explaining to do, like maybe which agency it was that told them to give these guys a visa anyway.
It was pretty easy to get a tourist visa online prior to the attack if you arrive from Russia, changed days now unfortunately. Just ask Roman Abramowitz.
No. UK visa applications from Russia have always been in-person and required substantial documentation subject to checks. I applied several times and helped others who I invited recently.
Rubbish, you probably need to back up your claim, here is the UK govt’s page explaining the online processing of Russian applications for visitors to the UK. You are clearly making it up Igor, or trolling.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-online-application-service-for-uk-visit-visas-launches-in-russia
That link says you can use the online process to book an appointment
That suggests to me a face to face
Thanks for that, Clarityn. I take it you followed the helpful link down the bottom of that press release?
Apparently not, because when I follow it I see this:
“When you apply online you need to:
•fill in the application form in English
•pay the visa fee online (in most cases)
•book an appointment at a visa application centre”
Book. An. Appointment.
When I follow that link (gosh, the Brits are ever-so-helpful!) I see that for Russians you need to go here:
https://uk.tlscontact.com/ru/eka/splash.php
Offices in:
Moscow
Novosibirsk
St Petersburg
Ekaterinburg
Rostov-on-Don
Maureen, of course the link has changed since the spring, as I said earlier you can no longer apply online.
@Clarityn,
They do say that when you are in a hole, you should stop digging. You seem to have tied yourself in knots as well.
It’s a two-step process: you book an appointment and fill some forms online, then come in person to one of the visa centers. There have been no significant changes to this process for at least eight years, not even after the Skripals. I don’t think online visas are at all possible for the UK because of the biometrics.
Border Agency knew who these men were and held back other passengers to get clear simultaneous shots of them on CCTV without running afoul of GDPR by having others in the frame. These men were tracked by MI5 and probably their handoff was observed. I doubt they had anything injurious to the health of Skripals but I am not sure they were not doing a “drop” for the Skripals
Thanks craigmurray.org.uk for this balanced, constructive and very important suggestion of a way forward in the #Skripal Affair. The conditions you propose for an open enquiry in UK are admirable . I would expect Putin to be able to accept them if the UK Govt offered to proceed in this way. Of course the UK Govtb is now too deeply locked into their Russia-hating fantasies to do so. @tonykevin.
“I would expect Putin to be able to accept them if the UK Govt offered to proceed in this way”.
Well, in that case you would expect wrongly.
Mr Putin actually has nothing to do with the matter at all, as (if any of it is true, which I doubt) it is purely a criminal case. It would be seriously wrong for any politician to get involved in a criminal case which isn’t even sub judice yet (as it is supposedly being investigated by the police – very, very slowly if at all).
However there will be no trial in the UK, because the Russian constitution forbids extradition of Russian citizens.
“Sadly, it currently seems highly improbable that either justice will be served or the full truth be known.”
It was clear from day one, given the actions of the UK government (guilt before investigation), that there was never any intent to follow proper legal process. The intent of those behind the setup was trial by media, particularly once the simple planned story fell apart following the unintended poisoning of the policeman. Everything since that time has been simple theatre, poisoning the well with calculated release of mixes of irrelevant truth and falsehoods.
The two Russian patsies may be dodgy, but so what, they were in no position to put the Schroedinger’s-Cat-chok on the house doorknob before the Skripals left home never to return.
Exactly so, Yonatan. If we weren’t so desperate for something to argue about, I doubt if there is a single shred of evidence about either alleged case that would help us to know what happened.
Right up front you must decide whether or not you believe HMG and the British police capable of deliberately lying, or of more subtle deceit by innuendo and concealment of facts.
I strongly believe that they are, and moreover that they do so regularly.
That being the case, we can’t even be sure that the Skripals were attacked at all or that Dawn Sturgess was poisoned. It’s quite possible that agents of HMG kidnapped the Skripals and brought about the death of Dawn Sturgess, by means which we cannot know.
Well…..President Putin said if uk answered all their requests for information….and agreed to a joint investigation…probably FSB crimi al case that has bedn opened and with Scotland yard….then that would happen…….then presumably guilty parties would be brought to an justice arrangement….as technically an attempt of murder has been made against Juliya a Russian citizen………
I don’t think that the offer of a joint investigation has been officially withdrawn….yet? But like the usa refusing to sign a joint declaration of non interference that Russia openly offered yesterday…presumably following on from similarly previous offers by Russia of joint anti terrorism…joint anti hacking-cyber cooperation type things….that that would actually happen.USA and UK simply planned anything to keep Russia in the public eye as deserving of the west’s Browder based russophobic hysteria.
@Jo: “technically an attempt of murder has been made against Juliya a Russian citizen………”
Strictly, an attempted murder has been alleged. That’s all. Whether we believe there really was an attempted murder depends on the credibility of the people who tell us that story.
And as the same people have told us other things, some of which are absolutely incompatible with others, we know for certain that they sometimes lie.
The only remaining question is, given that a source lies sometimes, how much we trust its gravest allegations. I would suggest that the graver the allegation, the more we should hesitate to accept its truth.
The Metropolitan Police are waste of time, space and money. They are ridiculously compromised by high level criminality and are institutionally corrupt. in short they are rotten to the core, which is of course why they were put in charge of the Skripal investigation.
Consider that the Met Police will not open an investigation into the serious breaches of the law committed by the ‘Vote Leave’ campaign for reasons of ‘political sensitivity’. Jolyon Maugham QC stated that “if the MPS are delaying an investigation into a likely crime because of political interference then ‘scandal’ does not begin to cover it. Were that true, we would be living in a police state where criminality was overlooked – if that criminality was expedient to the government.”
Consider also that the Met Police had nearly 1,000 cases collapse at Crown Court in 2017 because they had been withholding evidence that would have proven the accused were innocent, which is of course conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.
Also, consider that the MPS were providing names of trades union members, left-wingers and people that had raised legitimate Health & Safety in the workplace issues to a blacklist that then prevented these people from getting work, this is not just criminal and scandalous but sounds like something straight out of Nazi Germany.
The politicians, who *never* criticise the police, and the police who *never* investigate corrupt politicians are above the law in this country, and the consequence of their criminal and corrupt behaviour is that the UK is a fully functioning police state.
“Consider that the Met Police will not open an investigation into the serious breaches of the law committed by the ‘Vote Leave’ campaign for reasons of ‘political sensitivity’.”
I support remain. But to me this is sour grapes. Yes, I am bitter but not with ‘Vote Leave’.
The Electoral Commission found the campaign had breached the law, the campaign was fined and the Commission said it expected a police investigation to follow. It is the police who have cited ‘political sensitivities’ as their reason not to investigate. How would you feel if you had been the victim of a serious crime and the police refused to investigate because your local MP had told them not to?
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay/met-police-stall-brexit-campaign-investigations-claiming-polit
This is not ‘sour grapes’ but the deliberate refusal of the police to investigate a serious crime which undermines the very democracy that people in this country have repeatedly been told to give their lives for. The same hypocrite politicians behind this criminal enterprise will be putting on their ‘sad face’ next month when they’re grandstanding for the media at the cenotaph.
And yet the government leaflet costing an eight figure sum funded from public coffers, which recommended remaining in the EU, hasn’t even been investigated! One thing anyone should have learned in recent years is that investigations and justice are entirely partial (and partisan). EG: why is Tony Blair still a free man, continuing to spread his mis-truths and poison to worldwide publication and audiences? Blair supports remain btw.
@Tony,
Well said about the government backed “remain” literature.
Conservative Party and LibDems have been funded through offshore companies “River Companies” and with stolen money for years and still are. There is so much Ukrainian and Russian crime proceeds laundered into political parties in London that it is not as if you need to visit Russia to find the source, simply go to Danske Bank
I am assuming that by using the words ‘political sensitivities’ what in fact is meant is that May and her Cabinet are more than heavily involved in the crime – wouldn’t surprise me if ol’ Bojo had inside dealings with the Vote Leave campaign.
While I agree with you about the unreliability of the police, discussion of Brexit is utterly off topic in this thread.
Deb O Nair how true. We have an increasingly Fascist government supported by the MSM as their propaganda machine and we have police who are above the law. So, ,the rule of Law does not exist in this country or at least, is being rapidly extinguished.
Anyone who thinks a UK trial of what’s-their-names is a good idea would benefit from reading John Ashton’s ‘Megrahi: You are my Jury – The Lockerbie Evidence’. Megrahi was persuaded to return voluntary to be tried in a Scottish court in the Hague. Not only is the book a good read, it throws a lot of light on how things work at the highest levels.
http://www.megrahiyouaremyjury.net
If you think bringing Megrahi into this helps – then sigh. He was proven guilty in court and your efforts to discredit the verdict are likely distressing to the relatives of victims who believe he should never have been allowed to go home on compassionate grounds. Compassion is one thing, abusing that compassion is another. Shame on you,
Dr Jim Swires, father of a victim, would strongly disagree with you.
Judicial Infallibility “dum ex cathedra loquitur”. I admire your absolute faith in judicial perfectionism.
Your argument is hopelessly circular, as we got to this point from debating the unlikelihood of a fair trial in the UK.
A shorter but helpful introduction is https://lockerbiecase.blogspot.com/2015/04/unfair-incomprehensible-irrational-and.html
All unbiased and qualified observers agreed that the “Lockerbie trial” was a monstrous pantomime – perhaps the worst kangaroo court since Nuremberg. It was apparently constructed with a view to guaranteeing the politically desired verdict while providing an acceptable appearance of legalistic show.
No jury – why? Held outside the UK – why? The critical evidence – indeed more or less the only significant evidence – given by a man who originally maintained the opposite, and changed his statements after being paid over $1 million by the US government. Robert Black, renowned professor of law at Edinburgh University, said it was the worst miscarriage of justice in Scottish history.
“Dr Hans Koechler, president of the Vienna-based International Progress Organisation and a world -renowned expert on law and human rights, was personally appointed by United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan to ensure fair play and high standards. Koechler, who sat through every day of the trial at Camp Zeist, not only supports Black’s argument that there was insufficient evidence to convict Megrahi, but goes much further in condemning what went on in the special court as hopelessly contaminated by political considerations to the detriment of the rule of law”.
Just to put the visa business to bed…. 2016, online applications were accepted with very few checks.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-online-application-service-for-uk-visit-visas-launches-in-russia
So print the application and release it since lying on an application is a criminal offence
@Clarityn,
I followed that link and a tourist visa is a transit visa. Stage 4 of the procedure is making an appointment, so it still isn’t a simple online process.
Applicants still need to apply in person, their identities verified and biometrics taken.
From the start there was one thing which made me suspect these two ‘tourists’ were not in Salisbury on a cultural visit. Before we retired, January-February was the only time we could take a break long enough to holiday in the UK or Europe (from Australia) and it quickly became our habit to, before setting out to visit an historic site or building, checking that the site is actually open and accessible. This would be even more important for anyone on a two-day (flying) visit, especially in winter, and especially given the high price of train fares in the UK. Cathedrals may be closed for weddings or funerals or graduation ceremonies, and some sites close for repairs or maintenance during winter. If B&P/C&M had done these commonsense checks on their two mornings in London they might have decided to save time and money and check out the Kensington museums instead.
You obviously weren’t very good at research: March in the UK is spring, not winter. And the weather is normally mild, especially in the South.
Point taken, although, ‘Spring in the meteorological calendar is the season beginning in March and ending in May. Astronomically, spring typically starts on the day of the vernal (or spring) equinox which falls around the 20 March in the Northern Hemisphere’ (UK Met Office web page). And, since the weather doesn’t change precipitately at midnight on the 28th/29th February, it’s still wise to check first.
Hi Robyn, different people have different ideas about when Spring is. I went to school in North West Scotland and was told Spring was February, March and April. The longest day was called Mid-Summers Day. A lot of people nowadays say that Summer begins in June which was probably how they had it down South. I think they went by the warmth of the season and we went by light.
Similar thoughts. If you blow a thousand quid on a 2-day trip you plan it a bit better than they did. March is a very odd choice for UK for outdoor activities too.
Facebook and Twitter launched a huge coordinated purge of anti-war content on their “platforms” in the last couple of days. Given the extraordinary level of synchronisation between the social media giants, the corporate media, and the political establishment, in seeking to crush all forms of political dissent on both left and right, surely it’s long since time people started seriously questioning the integrity of western elections? If the powers that be go to such extraordinary obsessive lengths to stifle even minor outrbreaks of dissent online, why on earth should we believe they wouldn’t stoop to nobbling elections? It’s like believing the guys who gave us the Iraq and Libyan wars would never engage in political assassinations or false flag terror. I for one have long wondered whether Corbyn didn’t actually win the 2015 election by a landslide – and not just because the numbers at his rallies dwarfed those at May’s tiny gatherings.
Keep in mind the financial system could already be in a state of collapse. The tax collectors & money changers may therefore be looking for something to hide behind i.e. war.
JMF – Putin has recently warned of a serious financial crisis in the west which people are unprepared for. Very good piece in the RT about it. He’s right.
“…surely it’s long since time people started seriously questioning the integrity of western elections?”
There is no point in doing that, as Western elections have never had any integrity. As some intelligent wit once observed, “if voting made any difference it would be illegal”.
For those with the patience to read a simple explanation (in a US context), Randolph Bourne wrote one exactly 100 years ago: “War is the Health of the State” . http://fair-use.org/randolph-bourne/the-state/
Here is a short extract that conveys the main idea:
“By the time the electorate had succeeded in reducing the electoral college to a mere recorder of the popular vote, or in other words, had broadened the class of notables to the whole property-holding electorate, the parties were firmly established to carry on the selective and refining and securing work of the electoral college. The party leadership then became, and has remained ever since, the nucleus of notables who determine the presidency. The electorate having won an apparently democratic victory in the destruction of the notables, finds itself reduced to the role of mere ratification or selection between two or three candidates, in whose choice they have only a nominal share. The electoral college which stood between even the propertied electorate and the executive with the prerogatives of a king, gave place to a body which was just as genuinely a bar to democratic expression, and far less responsible for its acts. The nucleus of party councils which became, after the reduction of the Electoral College, the real choosers of the Presidents, were unofficial, quasi-anonymous, utterly unchecked by the populace whose rulers they chose. More or less self-chosen, or chosen by local groups whom they dominated, they provided a far more secure guarantee that the State should remain in the hands of the ruling classes than the old electoral college. The party councils could be loosely organized entirely outside of the governmental organization, without oversight by the State or check from the electorate. They could be composed of the leaders of the propertied classes themselves or their lieutenants, who could retain their power indefinitely, or at least until they were unseated by rivals within the same charmed domain. They were at least entirely safe from attack by the officially constituted electorate, who, as the party system became mor and more firmly established, found they could vote only on slates set up for them by unknown councils behind an imposing and all-powerful Party.
“As soon as this system was organized into a hierarchy extending from national down to state and county politics, it became perfectly safe to broaden the electorate”.
Tom Welsh: All of what you say and quote is doubtless true, but unfortunately it goes deeper than that. A high court judge stated that the corruption in UK elections would shame a banana republic. The book “Votescam: The Stealing of America” by Jim and Kenneth Collier, makes it clear that it isn’t just the structure of the American voting process that is rigged: actual tampering with the vote machines and stealing of votes also goes on on a massive scale. In Ireland, in 2009 a chance recount in a Euro election revealed that 3,000 votes had been stolen from one candidate and given to another. Mistakes happen, you might reply. Maybe, but the really revealing thing was the way the Irish media buried what was at the very least evidence of serious anomalies in the vote counting process. Even in the press coverage of the vote count the next day, they gave the story barely a mention. And the Garda (Irish police) refused to investigate the matter. A study by the University of Cork found that there were up to 700,000 extra voting cards circulating in recent Irish elections – a very large number in the context of a small country like Ireland. When queried about this, a spokesman for the relevant government department implied that it was not a serious problem, since one in four voters were asked for ID at polling stations. (A) This is not true – no one I’ve asked has ever been asked for ID, and (B) even if it were true, what about the other three in four? If you wanted to organise a rig, 525,000 fake votes – or three quarters of 700,000 – would be more than enough to swing it in a country with an official population of less than five million. Also, at least the UK – like most countries – starts the official vote count immediately after the polls have closed. In Ireland, for some weird reason I’ve never seen remotely plausibly explained, official counting is delayed until the next day.
Well, at any rate we agree that the system is thoroughly corrupt, so that the elites need never fear being upset by popular sentiment. (Except in the cases of Brexit and Trump, both of which look rather suspicious).
How do you propose to make them less corrupt?
I like these points:
“3) No restrictions on witnesses who may be called, including the Skripals, Pablo Miller, Christopher Steele and other former and current members of the security services.
4) No restrictions on disclosure – all relevant material held by government must be given to the defence.”
C’mon, Alex Younger, Andrew Parker, Charles Farr, Theresa May, Amber Rudd, Sajid Javid, Gavin Williamson, and Gary Aitkenhead – into the witness box with the lot of yer! And the same goes for the officers in the Royal Marines and in any other part of the armed forces, along with figures at Porton Down, at Aldermaston, and in Public Health England, who were involved in Operation Toxic Dagger. For starters, we want a list of all “vignettes”. And dont think you can tell the judge to shut up and go away, OK, Gavin?
“foreign partner relationships” involving “key allies” must be protected at all costs!
10 Oct: The Hill: Olivia Beavers: Senate Homeland chair vents Mueller probe is preventing panel from receiving oversight answers
(FBI Director Christopher) Wray conceded that he wants to do a better job of producing documents, while also citing the “many oversight requests” the bureau has received from different congressional committees.
The FBI chief also defended not “ripping off the bandaid” and releasing these highly sensitive documents for review.
“I think the topics that we are talking about are extremely sensitive intelligence operations. I understand the attraction of the rip-off-the-band-aid approach, but I also understand that in many cases we are talking about foreign partner relationships, tradecraft and all kinds of other things that we need to be very careful about protecting,” Wray said…
His defense of protecting these materials comes after Trump initially authorized a series of classified Russia-probe related documents to be released last month. He later walked back the release, citing “key allies” who have expressed concerns about releasing documents such as the Page surveillance application…
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/410776-senate-homeland-chair-expresses-frustration-that-mueller-probe-has
Kudos to you, Craig, for using your critical faculties and not sticking with a particular narrative come hell or high water. I am sure some commentators will not be happy with your choice.
When and where did he change his narrative? He’s been saying for weeks that Boshirov and Petrov weren’t who they said they were.
If indeed Boshirov and Petrov are not who they claim to be, the Russians would have known , by interviewing them on TV, that people would have come forward to reveal their true identities. I have not seen or heard of any reports coming out of Russia to suggest that Russian citizens had come forward to disprove their claims as to who they claim to be. There would be people who would say that’s not Petrov or Boshirov but Mishkin or Chepiga.Therefore, by putting them on National and Worldwide TV, the Russians took a massive risk ,especially if they knew the two were in fact, not Petrov and Boshirov but Chepiga and Mishkin.Either the Russians are playing a very curious game on us or they are waiting for the opportune moment to present the real Chepiga and Mishkin to us alongside Petrov and Boshirov. That will sink Bellingcats ship.
Even the head of RT, the female interviewer did not believe them…”you went all that way to Salisbury…to look at a clock?”
How does it prove anything, except that she was awfully unprepared for the interview?
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/11547114.Salisbury_announced_as_one_of_the_top_ten_cities_to_visit_in_the_world/
Sauds Law says: your consulate is likely to be bugged, so why would anyone commit a murder in a consulate?
The Sauds were so uncivilised in Syria that the Syrian people chose Assad in preference to Saudi terrorists. So Sauds Law, which says that, if you want to bribe and corrupt your way to power in Damascus, something will go wrong, fails to mention that if you are incredibly ignorant and stupid as hammer bin salman is, nothing will ever go right.
There are numerous reports from international as well as Russian journalists that verified Bellingcat’s identification, like from AP:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russian-suspect-in-uk-poisoning-is-hero-to-his-home-village/2018/10/10/c2529356-ccbd-11e8-ad0a-0e01efba3cc1_story.html?utm_term=.b79e2bf69250
I do love that Washington Post article:
a) Nataliya Vasilyeva goes to visit “LOYGA, Russia” but forgets to take a camera with her, how odd.
b) “As the recipient of Russia’s highest award, Alexander Mishkin is the pride of his home village, his photo even decorating a local school” Hold that thought….
c) “He studied at school here,” said Yuri Poroshin, an amateur painter who lives in Loyga. “His picture even hangs on the wall there because he’s a Hero of Russia” Please note that Nataliya’s source for that claim is this Yuri dude. Hold that thought…
d) “Poroshin said he heard that Mishkin received Russia’s highest medal for saving the life of his commanding officer during fighting with Islamist rebels in Chechnya” Oh, OK, so Yuri is the source of that claim too. How convenient. Still, I’m sure she gets evidence to back up both claims….
e) “Poroshin’s wife,”…. hmmm, I’m beginning to see a pattern here….
f) “Poroshin also immediately”…. did I mention something about a pattern?
g) “The Poroshins’ granddaughter, Yulia, said”… I’ll give you two guesses what that pattern is.
Here, let me help you: the SOLE source of this “verification” of “Bellingcat’s indentification” is Yuri And His Family, who is an “amateur painter” and therefore probably in dire need of some palm-greasing.
And you’d think a photo (damn, where did I leave my camera?) of Yuri And His Family might be a smart idea, especially as the article notes that the town is littered with drunkards and pensioners – and for all we know the entire Yuri family is both.
But, still, Nataliya would have gone out of her way to verify Yuri’s claims, right?
Hmmm, no, apparently.
h) “The gray two-story brick school building was locked on Wednesday, a note announcing a ban on taking photos and videos pinned next to the door.” So let’s just take Yuri’s word for it, OK?
i) “They said he continued to visit Loyga, where his 90-year-old grandmother, a respected local general practitioner, still lives” Well, gosh, SHE’LL have that photo of Putin pinning the HoRF on her grandson’s chest, right? Except….. silence from Nataliya.
Apparently Nataliya couldn’t find grandma, or Nataliya just… forgot…. to chase up what one would think to be an important lead. Maybe sitting around the Yuri household is just too much fun…
I’m glad you loved it, there are many more from other reporters who also visited the village that all confirmed the facts from this one.
“I’m glad you loved it, there are many more from other reporters who also visited the village that all confirmed the facts from this one.”
Did they now?
Well, since you appear to have all those details at the ready then I’ll be grateful if you would answer a quick question for me: how many of those “many more” “other reporters” remembered to take their cameras with them?
It’s not a trick question, I’m genuinely curious.
Do stringers (Nataliya Vasilyeva is very obviously a stringer) take cameras with them when they go on location, or don’t they?
Good line of reasoning YR, strangely, all the Natalia’s and all the journo’s that I know •always• carry a camera with them. Usually has a Samsmug or ? on it, they are mostly using their camera for communications purposes, but sometimes just to check the weather.
@ Yeah, Right: I propose a name change to “Yeah, I’m wrong, again”.
No, Vasilyeva is not a stringer, she’s AP’s Moscow correspondent.
No, she did not forget to bring a camera, and the other AP journalist that was there with her, Iuliia Subbotovska, extensively documented everything they witnessed in Loyga (video/audio as well as photos).
No, Yuri, his wife and granddaughter were not the “SOLE source of this “verification””, you couldn’t be more wrong (again).
They were merely prominently featured in this one story, but several other residents identified Mishkin instantly from the photographs, also to Vasilyeva (and at least 4 other journalist teams that went there independently from AP). And not only did they identify Mishkin, they also confirmed basically the entirety of his background as researched by Bellingcat.
No, Nina Mishkina, the grandmother of Mishkin was not in Loyga to be interviewed. She was asked to visit her son (Mishkin’s father) in another town (coincidentally shortly after it was announced that the real identity of “Petrov” was about to be revealed).
And that’s only a few of your false assumptions and misrepresentations corrected.
So, there would be school photos aplenty, let alone photos of birthday parties, sports events, kids fooling around.
Where are these photos Manfred?
Manfred, “but several other residents” do you have their names? No? anonymous? shit
Is it correct that Miskin leaves at 16, so they recognise him so quickly after so many years, I see only one “witness” so far
“there are “many more from other reporters” who also visited the village that all confirmed the facts from this one.
You mean that this village was overrun of dozens of reporters, source please, I’m waiting..
Are those “other reporters who also visited the village” anything like the “mountain of evidence” John Kerry cited in support of his contention that Russia shot down MH17? (None of which has ever been seen). Or the “overwhelming evidence” of Syrian government responsibility for attacks with poison gas that terrorists were known to possess, in places they were known to be?
“No, Vasilyeva is not a stringer, she’s AP’s Moscow correspondent. ”
Good for her. Not necessarily a value-for-money proposition for AP but, hey, that’s their problem.
“No, she did not forget to bring a camera, and the other AP journalist that was there with her, Iuliia Subbotovska, extensively documented everything they witnessed in Loyga (video/audio as well as photos)”
Did she now? None that the Washington Post considered worth putting anywhere in their post. How odd.
I’ve just googled “Iuliia Subbotovska loyga” and the only photos that come up are of empty streets. YouTube comes up equally-empty of anything other than empty streets.
I’m sure you can enlighten me regarding those “extensive documented” photos/videos.
Because where I am sitting long-shots of empty streets tells us nothing.
“No, Yuri, his wife and granddaughter were not the “SOLE source of this “verification””, you couldn’t be more wrong (again).”
No, sorry, I’ve looked again and The Yuri Gang are the only named sources.
“They were merely prominently featured in this one story, but several other residents identified Mishkin instantly from the photographs,”…
…and I’m going to stop you right there and ask how you know that.
Because I’ve looked at that article again and none of these “other residents” are identified as anything other than as “other residents”.
Excuse me for being rather less than impressed.
“And not only did they identify Mishkin, they also confirmed basically the entirety of his background as researched by Bellingcat.”
I’m seeing lots of “they”, which again is rather less than impressive.
At least Yuri was willing to put his name to his verballing. Good for you, Yuri.
“No, Nina Mishkina, the grandmother of Mishkin was not in Loyga to be interviewed.”
So you accept that the claim is hearsay?
Well, progress of sorts, I suppose.
“She was asked to visit her son (Mishkin’s father) in another town (coincidentally shortly after it was announced that the real identity of “Petrov” was about to be revealed).”
And you know that….. how, exactly? Did Yuri tell you?
Or did Iuliia Subbotovska take a photo down a supposedly-empty street only to capture a lucky-shot of Granny shuffling along on her slow walk to “another town”?
And what “other town” would that be, Manfred?
Did it not occur to Vasilyeva and Subbotovska that since they have already taken the time and effort to get to Loyga that, you know, maybe they should hop back in the car and chase ol’ Gran to that “other town”?
After all, isn’t that what “investigative journalism” is supposed to be?
Because what I’m seeing is that these clowns think that “journalism” is jotting down “confirmation” from multiple anonymous “theys” (except for brave Yuri, you champion!) and taking meaningless photos of muddy streets utterly devoid of human beings.
And that impresses you, does it?
And she doesn’t carry a mobile phone with a camera.
I have not seen anybody coming forward to say what lovely neighbours the Skripals were and how Pablo Miller always popped round for fish and chips on Friday. Noone has come forward to say what a lovely man Charlie Rowley was and in which prison he served his dealer sentence. I have not heard anyone say that Italian food in Salisbury makes you throw up nor anyone say they have seen the Skripals in Benidorm. The police sgt has not reappeared in any context.
I am surprised none breaches a DA notice and blows the whole gaffe even in Ireland or USA or Netherlands
Hmm….interesting that Charlie also seems to have disappeared. Especially after he allegedly found the vital piece of evidence in the bin. Maybe he is the genie in the bottle?
Another interesting blogmire post on the Skripals with a piece of info I haven’t read here or elsewhere. If it is correct, the Met don’t even know what time B&P/C&M’s plane was due or landed.
https://www.theblogmire.com/to-trust-the-met-or-to-not-trust-the-met-that-is-the-question/
Going purely by the title of Rob’s article, the answer is obviously “Not”.
Has anyone else figured out what is going on with the MSM hysteria over the saudi journalist khashoggi disappearance row…? First RT USA contributor Malouf quering it, then newsnight had a saudi journalist on saying something stinks/is not right as why is kharshoggi getting all this attention…he is small fry compared to 10,000 dead in yemen…and saudi imprisons small fry just for the hell of it?. Forget russia and kavenaugh now… can get to trump and derail his $110 billion arm sales deal (maybe worth up to 300bn) ….congress can overturn arm sales, no jobs for trumps supporting middle america…will hurt trump in november elections… unless he Drains the Swamp before then….
MSM don’t like it when MSM journalists get killed. This is not rocket science. Perhaps the Saudi’s don’t understand MSM sensitivities in this regard.
“Has anyone else figured out what is going on with the MSM hysteria over the saudi journalist khashoggi disappearance row…?”
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that it’s a PR stunt. The UK, US, and other governments have been getting a lot of criticism lately for their unquestioning support of Saudi Arabia. This little episode gives them the opportunity to pretend there’s some sort of principles involved and act all moral and righteous.
I won’t be surprised if he shows up alive and well in Saudi Arabia some time soon. Then it’ll be “shucks, turns out our Saudi buddies aren’t so bad after all… we shouldn’t listen to what the liberals and leftists say…”
Andrew H, your response to this question makes you look very silly indeed. The MSM doesn’t really give a shit about journalists getting killed in other places. Clearly you don’t either or you wouldn’t type such junk. I can name names, if it helps. And please stop using phrases like “it’s not rocket science” to give the impression that you know what’s going on when you obviously don’t.
Hatuey you are right – the MSM don’t seem to give a damn about the Palestinian Journalists who have been assassinated by I—-I snipers does it? Also, in the very recent past I seem to remember a huge story about a Ukraine Journalist having gone missing / murdered / kidnapped by the Russian Federation security services. Turns out, some 3 days later it was all a hoax on the part of the Ukranian Government to put Russia under further severe international pressure.
“Turkish authorities have been leaking security camera footage and travel data that suggests 15 Saudi nationals arriving in two private jets arrived at Istanbul’s Ataturk airport and raced to enter the consulate shortly before Mr Khashoggi’s 2 October arrival, and vans and cars zooming off to the consular residence and back to the airport soon after his disappearance.
The Saudi-funded, Dubai-based al-Arabiya channel reported Thursday that the 15 Saudi men were merely tourists on holiday in Turkey.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jamal-khashoggi-murder-proof-turkey-riyadh-conference-uber-missing-journalist-a8580476.html
He is a key advisor to the former Head of Saudi Intelligence and former Ambassador to UK and USA and was deeply involved in Saudi links to Al Qaeda and no doubt 9/11
I recommend you to friends and loved ones Craig, but this is really pushing it. Once a state operative, always a state operative I guess. I admired the way you stood up to Blair and Straw, and the other despicable fascist war criminals who have already ruined this century, if not our entire future, but this is just bollocks.
Buck, Craig’s position on the identity of Boshirov and Petrov hasn’t changed. He’s been saying since they did that interview that something stinks about them and that they aren’t who they claimed to be. Go look. But, anyway, that doesn’t mean he buys the government line on any aspect of the story.
We agree on this
Boshirov and Petrov should not start negotiating at this stage about how they can be accorded their right to a fair trial. The following is what they should say.
1) They will be happy to appear in an English court to answer the charges, pending agreement being reached on how to ensure they receive a fair trial.
(Note: given the statements that have been made so far, this may require inter alia that Theresa May makes it publicly clear that contrary to the opinions that have been expressed by government ministers and media organs, they must be held to be innocent until proven guilty, and no public statements should be made outside court that might influence a jury).
2) IN THE MEANTIME, please can they be given
a) the charge sheets, specifying exactly what offences they are alleged to have committed, where, and when; and
b) advance disclosure of all the evidence on which the prosecution intends to rely, and of all evidence in the possession of the police or CPS that may be useful to the defence.
That is how the criminal justice system is supposed to work.
In my opinion, neither the British nor the Russian authorities want a trial. Similarly they were both pleased that Boris Berezovsky was put out of the way before he could cause any embarrassment in the Litvinenko case, and it would not surprise me much if they were both pleased too that Nikolai Glushkov was made permanently unable to appear in the High Court in the case brought against him by Aeroflot.
There’s never going to be a trial. Craig knows that. The last thing the UK government would want is serious scrutiny of this fairytale.
Who will pay their legal bills ? It cost Cliff Richard £2 million and he got £850,000 back from BBC in costs….so that means clearing his name cost him £1,150,000 which I suppose is spare change for most people on this thread. I do not know how many people here have been in a trial in England or experienced cross-examination – it is not TV drama – it is sordid seedy and full of mendacity
That is exactly the point, Paul. We are always told that justice is equally available to all in our wonderful democratic country – but actually it’s available mostly to those with a few spare million.
@ Paul – The Legal Aid Agency will pay. Let the accused get advance disclosure of the evidence first. Then they’ll know how many juniors to put in for, to work under their QC.
This is all propaganda. Of course there will be no trial. The key point here is advance disclosure of the evidence. An accused person is supposed to receive all the evidence against them, early on. The prosecution must be in possession of it, and it must be sufficiently solid for them to assess that they’ve got a damned good chance of convicting on it, right, because otherwise they wouldn’t have brought charges. (*Innocent face*.)
So out with it. Hand it over. All the witness statements, all the forensics, the lot of it. Then we can talk about how to ensure a fair trial. We know we’re innocent. You may not, but we do. Show us this nonsense. It seems to us this is an intelligence game, not a serious attempt to convict the perps, or, if the substance came from Toxic Dagger, to bring the responsible parties at Porton Down or in the Royal Marines to account. But give us what you’ve got, and in the event that you don’t come to your senses, recognise there’s no case against us, and give us an apology and a couple of free visitors’ tickets to some other Gothic cathedrals, we’ll be happy to knock the prosecution case for six in court. That “should” be their attitude.
I don’t think it fair to criticise Craig for speaking his view. I don’t think they travelled on original identity, I think likely UK knew that when issuing visa. Russia has no reason to explain further, people may change identity if they choose and Russia allows. Putin has no reason to offer details on his nationals, if UK seeks these people it must offer credible proof. Here is one of few places an open discussion is kept on this event, don’t criticise Craig because his views don’t match or if he makes a mistake, you cannot expect him to push one argument without thought because that is a mistake. Instead write your own argument, he is providing a free space for that.
“don’t criticise Craig because his views don’t match or if he makes a mistake”
The trolls are out in force today… please give me an example of Craig’s views not matching or a mistake.
“The trolls are out in force today”
Or maybe just one: Cesca, Clarityn, Guest Columnist, Buck Moody, Tjk may not be five different people.
Well there would have to be 2 or 1 schizo.
Six?
“people may change identity if they choose and Russia allows”
? Knowingly giving a false birthdate on a visa application and then entering the country on the visa received is an offence. The first may even be an offence on its own if the person does it in a British embassy.
Please list One verdict in a UK court from the last five decades in a case with high stake political implications that went against HMG. Secret proceedings not allowed.
I don’t know what you count as high stake political implications, or what a “UK” criminal court is, but two trials in the jurisdiction of England and Wales that come to mind are Clive Ponting’s (in which the jury basically told the judge to f*** off) and Michael Randle and Pat Pottle’s (in which in effect the same happened, after a brilliantly handled defence). Weren’t there some brave Quaker peace activists too who smashed up a warplane and successfully ran the defence that they acted to prevent a greater crime?
Ah yes, the jury! Conspicuously absent in other proceedings, such as the Lockerbie lynching and the Litvinenko inquest.
Politicians know very well to avoid having a jury if at all possible. Judges are far more reliable.
Where are the Lord Denning’s in the justice system today?
Perhaps the botched attack on the Scripals was carried out to disguise the fact that Dawn Sturgess was the Russians’ true target.
Seriously? This is why I read this blog.
Carlyle, strongly suspect Dawn Sturgess died of an infection, alcohol poisoning or a drugs overdoes. Nothing sinister about the death – just the Government using it as propaganda.
Fair trial not possible in this climate
> I remain of the view that the best way forward would be for Putin to negotiate conditions under which Boshirov and Petrov might voluntarily come to the UK for trial. The conditions which I would suggest Russia propose…
There isn’t a chance in hell of that happening and you know it Craig.
The Russians won’t extradite their own citizens and the UK has no intention of any evidence ever seeing the light of day.
The best that could have happened would have been for the UK to follow procedure in the first instance but we all seen how much that obligation was worth.
Taking the current designed nadir of relations between evil Russia as the external justifying threat and the sleek UK that is calmly and snappily sashaying their exit from a historic trading system; there might just be a chance of an improvement in relations with Russia post-exit, when we’ve taken stock as a nation, and tried to trade alone.
The R.F. might just become important trading partners, as I rather suspect that they still have a high respect for some of the British values. I care not either way. Neutral.
It’s interesting to observe this model, totally made up spook situation, and its lifting of a veil of propaganda and obescience , so the secret squirrels in charge of the {attempted} clear-up must be very very very annoyed with the Ukrainians, even more than Putie.
It involved the stockpiling of the novichux non-traditional-agent (of a type…) as a MEME, an idea, a ‘debate surpressed’ in the OPCW, meme stored in the cupboard for years, until the time was right – to spring an overwhelming PR Psyop against Putie, but ¡horrors!, Murphy’s Law was not sufficiently planned against, and all the Psyop became Cole’s Law (finely divided vegetables). b
Well done chaps, makes one proud to be . . . etc
“The R.F. might just become important trading partners, as I rather suspect that they still have a high respect for some of the British values”.
Over the dead bodies of everyone in Washington. Which is actually what this, and most of the other anti-Russian hysteria, is about.
The Americans are terrified of the prospect of a unified Eurasia, trading and dealing happily with one another and admitting Americans only as tourists or peaceful traders. Borders ringed with S-400, Su-35, and Bastion.