I have been gently chided for not giving my reactions to the SNP conference, which I attended as a delegate.
Nicola’s major speech was very good. The media universally attempted to characterise it as kicking a new Independence referendum into the long grass. I did not hear it that way at all. I think they are clutching at the straw of her single mention of patience and perseverance, against the fact she used the word “Independent” or “Independence” an extraordinary 31 times in her speech. Of course she wishes to retain flexibility and an element of surprise, but as someone who has studied the matter extremely closely and who distrusts the highly paid SNP professional “elite” on this issue, I was reassured as to Nicola’s intentions.
The members are in extremely good heart and very confident. I was personally much touched by the many scores of individuals who bothered to come up to me and say they followed the blog. The conference agenda was somewhat bland, though fizzing with righteous anger at the effects of austerity on the vulnerable. My major criticism would be that far too high a percentage of total speaking time on the conference floor is given to MP’s, MSP’s and MEP’s. Constituency proposed motions, for example, were too often used as a showcase for the MP/MSP rather than introduced by an ordinary party member.
I dislike the political class now attached to the SNP in just the same way that I distrust the professional political class in every political party. The horrible Alex Bell should be a serious warning of the kind of false hypocrites that a salary will attract “to the cause”. Seeing MPs I knew as just punters campaigning in 2014, now walking proudly before power dressed entourages of paid staff, was a strangely unpleasant experience.
My major concern is that the SNP’s foreign policy and defence teams at Westminster appear to have been entirely captured by the UK establishment and indeed the security services. They have been willing and instant amplifiers of the Tories’ Russophobia.
It appears to me truly remarkable that I was not allowed to hire a room for a fringe meeting on Independence campaigning, but that the “Westminster Foundation for Democracy” – which is an FCO front and 90% FCO and DFID funded – was allowed a room on the fringe to hold this anti-Russian propaganda fest with a Ukrainian MP imported by the FCO.
Furthermore the meeting was co-hosted by the SNP and “Westminster Foundation for Democracy” and featured two SNP MPs.
I took issue with two other senior SNP figures last month over the party’s slavish devotion to what the UK intelligence services tell them.
The problem here is of course that the SNP is accepting a UK-centric vision of the world. This is a fundamental error, a category mistake. Because Russia is in an antagonistic relationship with the UK does not mean Russia should or will have an antagonistic relationship to an Independent Scotland.
Whatever happened in Salisbury, the root cause was spy games between Russia and the UK. Precisely the kind of spy games an independent Scotland must have no part of.
MI6 recruited Sergei Skripal as a traitor to Russia, who for money revealed secrets of his nation to MI6, including identities of agents. That is the root of the Salisbury events, and it is not the sort of thing an Independent Scotland will be doing. If an Independent Scotland is just going to behave like the UK in foreign affairs, carrying on neo-con foreign policy by illegitimate methods, I see no point in Scotland being independent. The Skripal affair, whatever really happened, is part of an entire system which most people in the Yes movement wish to get out of. We do not see the UK’s enemies as our enemies.
But the UK security services are our enemies. Scottish nationalism is defined in security service tasking as a threat to the UK and we are targets of the UK security services. The British government is not going to agree to another Independence referendum and we are going to have to win Independence, like the Catalans, in the teeth of every dirty abuse of British state power.
I would feel very much better if the SNP leaders, like Chris Law and John Nicholson both of whom I count as friends, would sometimes draw a deep breath, forget what they imbibed as Westminster MPs, and remember which side they are on.
For those who believe that democracy can solve anything let us consider the example of Brexit:
> 51.9% voted to leave 48.1% voted to remain
> Turnout 72.2 % so 37.5 of total eligible electorate voted to leave
> Tories have 315 seats and together with DUP have 325 seats with no overall working majority but this is slightly ameliorated by the fact that 7 Sein Fein MPs do not attend the HP and do not vote.
> The Tories are divided about Brexit and supposedly 50-80 Tory MPs do not support the Chequers plan.
> TM was not elected by anybody just appointed to a role by the party.
> TM does not even have the full support of her party let alone of the country or Parliament.
> TM appears to decide the shape of Brexit with little participation from the 48.1% or of something like 400 out of 650 MPs.
> The results of the referendum need to be respected on the basis that democracy must be seen to operate.
> Representative democracy seems to mean winner takes all and one person, the PM can determine the fate of the country.
If this is democracy, give me dictatorship any day.
“Turnout 72.2 % so 37.5 of total eligible electorate voted to leave”
And therefore 34.7% voted to remain.
“TM was not elected by anybody just appointed to a role by the party”
There was a General Election last year.
“The results of the referendum need to be respected on the basis that democracy must be seen to operate”
A dictatorship of the minority over the majority wouldn’t go down at all well.
And 27.8 percent, a sizable number did not vote. I know the full argument that those who do not vote should be discounted, just pointing out.
In fact the elections of 2017 if it shows something, shows that the electorate did not like Theresa May because she was not given an overall mandate.
My tirade really is not against democracy, my last sentence was to provoke, but I think that democracy should not operate in such a way that the wishes of the sizeable marginal minority should be ignored.
So SA what was the result of the Popular vote last year? I think you’ll find she actually got a greater share of the vote than her predecessor by around 5%.
Minority loses in democracy, thems the facts.
Perhaps you should be pushing for Corbyn to become prime minister for a year of the 5 years this government will sit? That would be fair wouldn’t it?
“Minority loses in democracy, thems the facts.”
Lets boot out these minority losers, send them where they came from or into exile, that’s the facts of life, winner takes all.
And here am I hoping that democracy was about respect for others feelings and point of view.
SA, I think your view of democracy is a stupid one.
What is your opinion on Scottish independence? What percentage should be required to achieve it? By the sounds of it you would put a minimum turn out clause in a referendum, just like the Tories did in 1979 over Scottish devolution. Was that fair?
Your view of answering people is to insult them. So much for any thoughts you may have in democracy. So then why do you ask me what my opinion is on anything else? Is it to further justify your claims if my stupidity?
I tell you what, you prove your cleverness, I have expressed my views on this subject in this blog before and it is up to you to find out what they are if you really want to know.
Thanks for your clarification SA. If people decide not to vote like they did in 1979 the vote is void. That is yours and the Tory party view. As for insults, I’m sorry if you don’t see your view of democracy as silly or stupid. The translation of democracy is peoples power, if you choose not to exercise your power, then you might as well just shut up as your opinion is not valid within democracy. So there you have it, you have the right to silence.
And thank you for clarification of your ADH but it seems that you may have missed a few doses of Claritin.
Personally I’m with SA on this. Just because one believes broadly in democracy doesn’t mean one has to merrily accept any version of democracy that is thrown up.
In many other forms of democracy around the world, different groups to try to work together and there are incentives to treat the losers, big or small, with respect. PR would be one step in that direction. As would proper meaningful referendums rather than “advisory” imprecise ones (I’m thinking of both brexit and AV). And also proper media analysis of the behaviour of our elected representatives (for example, we barely ever heard anything detailed in the media about MEPs).
One of the necessary components of democracy, if you look into it, as defined by say the OECD, is a free and fair or balanced media. Outside of the state broadcaster, the BBC, just about every other news source is to one extent or the other on the right of the political spectrum. Even that statement is inadequate though because the political spectrum itself in Britain is to the right of most other European countries and that in itself is no accident.
The BBC I’d say is closer to the extreme right than the political middle ground. Look at the way it has doggedly hounded Corbyn, for example.
Anyone who thinks all this didn’t affect the outcome of the Brexit vote is living in cuckoo land.
SA “My tirade really is not against democracy, my last sentence was to provoke, but I think that democracy should not operate in such a way that the wishes of the sizeable marginal minority should be ignored.”
You could say that but in the 1975 referendum the people where manipulated by the IRD of the foreign office.That is not democracy that was Orwellian control.
Will you ignore the minority if 49% vote against Scottish independence?
Probably, just as the 48% of the UK vote against Brexit had been ignored, or the majority of non Tory votes in the 2017 election have been.That’s how “democracy” works.
If people didn’t vote the most likely presumption is that they wanted no change, were happy with things as they are. I’ve never understood the bizarre Brexiter twisting, whereby if people didn’t vote, that meant they wanted revolutionary change, which even in 2016 people could see would lead to enormous changes in people’s lives. But then Brexiters are Brexiters – revolutionary change is what they want.
Laguerre
The Brexiters can hardly be described as revolutionary, they are on the main (with notable exceptions) extremely reactionary like The Mogg and the Johnson. However your argument still holds that those who did not feel strongly against change did not bother to vote, especially since the predictions were that stay will win.
Please offer an example of a referendum result ever having been reversed because of the assumed preference of those who did not vote. Without one, it is difficult to see where you’re going with this.
Fonso,
Scottish devolution referendum in which there was a 40% rule. Despite the majority of actual voters voting “for”, those that were dead or just couldn’t be bothered carried the day.
Actually I am not going anywhere just stating my views. The big problem with the referendum was its design. It asked a yes and no question without any attention to what the question really meant. The politicians then went around telling us what they thought it meant giving wrong answers to unasked questions and then offering the wrong solution to the supposed problems.
SA
The Brexiters are right-wing revolutionaries, see Ivan Rogers speech the week after May’s dance: Brexit as revolution.
https://share.trin.cam.ac.uk/sites/public/Comms/Rogers_brexit_as_revolution.pdf
“If people didn’t vote the most likely presumption is”
If people don’t vote no presumption can be made.
You keep them straight, MJ.
MJ
I disagree. In a court of law, refusing to answer a question is a way of agreeing with the proposition. The problem with Brexit as SA rightly says is that Theresa Manquee interpreted the abstainers tacit agreement as actual agreement with whatever she chose it to mean, which is a very female characteristic. The business lobby , entirely against its own interests then played absolute schtum about Mrs May’s racist version of Brexit., so their schtum got added to the Monkey organ-grinder’s racist ideas.
The reality is that the ‘barely coping’ were too busy with austerity to vote and the ‘business boomers were drunk on the gin of Tory free-for-all. See Hogarth:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=wokBVVd2&id=7AC46BDB3EC63C3320E6E4ADC650A0B087AC5DC5&thid=OIP.wokBVVd2FbmRoinYLAseeAHaIt&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fmetrouk2.files.wordpress.com%2f2016%2f10%2fhogarth-gin-lane-slider-then.jpg%3fw%3d620%26h%3d729%26crop%3d1&exph=729&expw=620&q=gin+catoon+london+hogarth&simid=608009991299270775&selectedIndex=3&ajaxhist=0
MJ, the Brexiter who claims that people who didn’t vote really wanted a revolution which is going to rip up their lives (which is what they’re going to get – Raab & buddies proclaim it). Difficult to credit such people, isn’t it?
their are a lot of people who do not vote because they believe the system is corrupt
Are you saying that this group of people who don’t vote on grounds of curruption have organised themselves to abstain? They sound just like another political party, clearly the irony is lost on you.
Not voting signals submission to the status quo. Better to vote for any minority party that you can stomach.
@laguerre,
The Brexit referendum had a huge turnout when compared to other elections/referendums.
How can you be so arrogant to assume that all the non voters were happy with the status quo?
As for respect – that is a two way thing and has to be earned.
When I listen to the BBC, read the Independent or Guardian, I have to take in the so called “facts” that everyone who voted to leave the EU was – old, stupid, racist, xenophobic, Russian bot, bitter etc.
What really surprises me in this day and age, is that we allow a political party with a minority, to choose/bribe another political party to then create a majority under our current, pathetic rules. Even taking into account the added DUP vote, she still only commands 43.3% of the vote which hardly represents modern democracy.
This of course means that 56.7% of the voters – a clear majority are not being represented.
The problem with the referendum it offered the prospect of a Leave vote that parliament didn’t want to honour. Normally referendums are offered to progress government policy, not reverse it.
So why would a government offer a leave referendum when their policy was to remain. Its argued for internal conservative party reasons, but I think the referendum was held to progress government policy, to solve the EU crisis, by further fiscal integration.
It was to progress a government policy of joining the Euro, by claiming a Remain vote trumped the earlier promise to hold a Euro referendum.
The wholesale promotion of PFI was the mickey-mouse accounting to improve public services and get Britain into the Euro, by creating a vital difference, disputed by the National Audit Office, between private PFI borrowing and public, Prudential borrowing, to keep within the ‘convergence and sustainability’ rules for joining the Euro.
@MJ
‘A dictatorship of the minority over the majority wouldn’t go down at all well.’
Surely this is exactly what our present system of ‘democracy’ usually delivers (in General Elections).
Once I saw all the Neocons like Michael Gove and Liam Fox, and slippery opportunists like Boris Johnson jumping on the Brexit bandwagon in the months before the referendum, I began to strongly suspect that it was a diversionary red herring. For example, while everyone gets in a lather over the “tyrannical scheming Eurocrats” or “the right-wing xenophobe little England Brexiteers” (take your rhetorical pick), the British government is trying to bring in a law that would criminalise looking at unapproved sites on the internet – and almost no one seems to care one jot. One thing is for sure, Brexit or no Brexit, the powers that be don’t seem of a mind to slow down their relentless assault on basic liberties. But hey, maybe after Brexit, the prison cells anti-war activists languish in will have pretty little Union Jacks on the communal chamberpots. That’s something isn’t it?
Its Sunday, time for a bit perspective I think.
That’s the whole of humanity right there on that little white dot.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpZe3DRXgAI7PPs?format=jpg
Perspective? Huh! That photo was taken from only 1 billion miles away. Voyager 1’s ‘Pale Blue Dot’ photo holds the distance record with 3.7 billion miles, and early next year the New Horizons spacecraft will attempt a shot from 4 billion miles. Don’t forget to look up.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/new-horizons-pale-blue-dot-nasa/553160/
The BBC was plugging this again yesterday for Lockheed Martin.
Lift-off for Scotland: Sutherland to host first UK spaceport
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44841123
Is the SNP supporting it?
Yes the SNP do support it, do you have google in your country? Or are you just slow?
Less of the sarcasm Venvell.
What a patronising, ignorant response, Venwell.
Thanks for the feedback Ingwe, I’m sure the troll appreciates your intervention. if he’s capable of googling the BBC article, perhaps he should have read it?
The massive picture of Nicola Sturgeon at a Glasgow Satellite factory should have given it away, don’t ya think?
There is no photo of Sturgeon on the link I sent fyi.
Lift-off for Scotland: Sutherland to host first UK spaceport
By Jonathan Amos
BBC Science Correspondent
16 July 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44841123
Are there branches of Specsavers in Scotland?
I can see it Sharp Ears, it’s her visit to AAC Clyde Space, marked in bold Scottish Government. She’s on the left.
Sharp Ears, Here is the Picture from within your post….It is clearly marked “Scottish Government”
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/7E7F/production/_102538323_6.jpg
Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister that Craig that is referring to in this thread, I’d assumed you would know who you were commenting about, but then again you probably don’t!
Jeez what an arrogant knob end.
Who?
RoS
It takes one to recognise another.
Ad infinitum.
Lift-off for Scotland: Sutherland to host first UK spaceport
Sky at Night are doing a feature on this tonight, BBC4, 10.00pm.
Sorry that I failed to recognize in a hairnet! Not a good look.
____
The PR man from Lockheed in the Sky at Night programme was exceedingly charming, almost oleaginous Pity he works for such an outfit.
Hope he is not involved in the division that supplies weapons and missiles to the Saudis and their coalition partners, including us, who have caused mass starvation to the people in Yemen and who are threatening to wipe out millions.
The UN representative has said we should be ashamed.
On the frontline of world’s worst humanitarian crisis
Civilians have fled Hodeida, Yemen, as an offensive draws closer and aid agencies say hundreds of thousands of lives are at risk.
https://news.sky.com/story/on-the-frontline-of-worlds-worst-humanitarian-crisis-11525269
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-45857729/yemen-could-be-worst-famine-in-100-years
Sorry that I failed to recognize NICOLA in a hairnet! Not a good look
A fascinating BBC article there. A “spaceport”, eh? How Star Trek! And we are being urged to grab the opportunity! Quick! But what exactly is it all for? Let’s see:
“Satellites to monitor the weather, to relay communications, and to take pictures of activity on Earth. Small satellites can do all this and they tend to operate in polar-type orbits. That is, they circle the Earth a few hundred kilometres up, passing over the Arctic and the Antarctic.”
And….
“vehicles ….that could fly from the UK – the Electron, Orbex and LauncherOne. But there are 60-plus small launch vehicles in development around the world. A few of these others are also based in the UK, and they will regard a home spaceport as a great fillip to their endeavours.”
A “fillip” to “endeavours”?
Well I’m sure those awfully nice Lockheed Martin people are only interested in weather patterns and monitoring penguins.
If the Billy Boys of the DUP are serious they’ll ask Jeremy Corbyn to table a motion of no confidence in Theresa May’s government, vote in favour of it, and then get to choose the next Tory leader and prime minister before the 14 days under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act are up. Because a general election will hardly help them.
Those who speculate that
“the Palace”the clique around the monarch and her family will call Corbyn and ask him to try to form a government, and we will then find out whether it wins or loses its own confidence vote, are getting it wrong. How it works is that the outgoing prime minister agrees to stay on as caretaker after losing a Commons confidence vote and she advises the monarch on who to call. In this sort of scenario, the person nominated will be whoever takes over as leader of the Tory party, which they will probably achieve without the members getting a vote. (Since when have the port drinkers in the gentlemen’s clubs in St James’s cared about the golf club and trade association types in Harrogate, Chester, and Edinburgh?)But the Billy Boys may find it difficult to back Tridentine Mass fan Jacob Rees-Mogg. Michael Gove seems more their line. Gove is on record as calling Theresa May a “continuity Catholic”. That will buy him a lot of respect in muscle-politics Protestant bible bashing circles. He could expect a nice backhander from “renewable heating” operations too. Still, Rees-Mogg is backed by much more money and at least he agrees with most of the DUP about abortion.
It won’t be long before a few leading analysts start referencing the budget crisis and Speaker’s ruling of the 1909-13 period.
Comparison could also be drawn with the 1920s. Perhaps the “we love nukes and I__ael” faction of the parliamentary Labour party – who are the majority – might do
an SDPa Ramsay MacDonald? It would only take a few of the f***ers.N_,
Great post. I was never that keen on The Tridentine Mass, except when I was an altar boy and they did it in Latin. It had a kind of spiritual ring to it. I also liked the altar wine and the smoking thurible on a big gold chain. Nothing like a bit of charcoal, to get the incense smelling lovely. Theresa May is a complete and utter total moron. She is trying to emulate Thatcher, but hasn’t got the braincells. It’s entirely possible and likely that she has been on The Tavistock course specifically designed to neuter any spark of intelligence.
Jacob Rees-Mogg meanwhile, gives all the impression of having a functioning mind, and he does make sense with regards to getting out of The EU CIA controlled Dictatorship, which is what the majority of the people in the UK voted for in a Democratic Referendum. As you are such a clever guy, I am finding it rather difficult to understand why you want the UK to Remain in this Dictatorship, who’s main function is mass murder in foreign lands.
Please explain.
Tony
I am a great fan of the Tridentine Mass. it has given rise to an incredible amount of great music Nobody can remain unmoved by the great masses of Haydn Mozart’s Schubert and Beethoven, let alone the Requiem masses of Mozart, Verdi and Berlioz amongst others.
Wir setzen uns mit Tränen nieder by Bach, “We sit down with tears in our eyes” one of my favourites.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EaSvJZE3dCI
Interestingly ROS Bach was a Lutheran but that did not prevent him from dabbling in Catholic Church music forms. But is this particular piece not more in the Lutheran rather than catholic genre?
Tony, I replied to your questions to me, which you asked over two weeks ago:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/we-need-to-talk-about-indyref2/comment-page-2/#comment-789412
Clark,
Thanks for your response. Maybe your unix server has been hacked, but I am fairly certain you are still a good looking guy. It wasn’t your appearence I was commenting on, but that most amazing high definition photo of what looked like an enormous area of nuclear waste containers in the USA. I don’t think I downloaded the image to my computer. Have you got a backup, cos your links no longer work, at least for me.
http://www.killick1.plus.com/pictures/aerial_paducah_yard.jpg
http://www.killick1.plus.com/pictures/DUF6_cylinder_leak.gif
Keep it up. I know you are a good guy, even though I sometimes disagree with your views. I find people I always agree with rather boring, unless I am at a gig.
I have heard the Residents are doing a tour next year – Union Chapel in London. £30 to get in.
We have seen them before, though I still don’t know who they are.
“The Residents – Third Reich”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRweyGHJ3bc
Tony
Oh sorry Tony, I forgot. My web-space was taken down by Plusnet because Craig linked to my copy of The Catholic Orangemen of Togo, causing untold numbers of people to download it, this exceeding the web-space’s download limit. I need to e-mail the sysadmin at Plusnet and get my site restored. Thanks for reminding me.
Until I can get my site back up, here’s another source:
https://woub.org/2017/06/16/nuclear-option-officials-hope-old-facility-can-fuel-growth/
That article I just linked at woub.org mentions a plan by Bill Gates “to turn it into useful fuel”. What it doesn’t mention is that the “useful fuel” would be plutonium, and nearly everyone has given up building reactors that use plutonium because it needs a “fast” reactor as opposed to a “thermal” reactor for uranium, and fast reactors are too difficult to control safely.
Clark,
Thanks. I do understand, but I bought Craig’s books on Paper. I do like a book at Bedtime, where I can turn the pages, and fold the corner over, before I fall asleep. With luck it will still be there when the lights go out, and nothing much works. I’ve also got a CB Radio in the attic which I bought second hand in 1985. I think it will probably still work in the event of a mass communications breakdown. It just needs a long piece of wire for the aeriel.
Tony
The country under the Tories is rotten to the core.
‘Virgin Trains and Stagecoach shared in £51.2m worth of dividends from the West Coast main line railway, shortly before walking away from another franchise.
Virgin Rail Group’s dividends, for the year ending 31 March 2018, are almost double the £27.9m that was given back to its shareholders in 2015.
The details come after the firms’ East Coast franchise collapsed in June, with the government losing out on £2.3bn.
Virgin said strong performance had led to record payments for taxpayers.
But Labour said the failing rail system was “lining the pockets of billionaires”.
Virgin owns 51% of the operator which runs the West Coast main line connecting London to Glasgow – known as Virgin Rail Group – while Stagecoach owns the remaining 49%.’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45854824
Warning. There is a photo of Branson on the link looking out of a train window, showing his white plastic teeth.
Ridiculous that a Scottish Nationalist would make so much money from the public without giving any back, thieving nats!
£1.04Bn stolen by Brian Souter.
Oh I don’t know, the eldest bastard son of King Charles II, and his descendants, including the latest Duke of Buccleuch, all Britnats, of course, have made an absolute fortune out of Scotland over the centuries. Not go mention the suffering they’ve caused into the bargain.
Souter pales into insignificance next to them.
Perhaps Richard Branson, Brian Souter and the SNP should pay back the taxpayers money they have stolen and handed on to polical parties, that should be party.
” The Skripal affair, whatever really happened, is part of an entire system which most people in the Yes movement wish to get out of. We do not see the UK’s enemies as our enemies.”
So Craig, who are the UK’s enemies?
Is Ukraine Scotland’s enemy?
“the russian security services do not” – you believe that? Remeber the Yes campaign HQ hack? WHo was that then? Please evidence your reply.
The SNP have said it themselves.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendumnews/15771388.yes-leaders-dont-be-naive-about-russian-online-meddling-in-independence/
Oh dear; the Atlantic Council again. They just blame Russia for everything, purely a knee-jerk response. From the article:
– “Now researchers have uncovered a huge push by social media accounts which usually support Vladimir Putin to share videos and links amplifying the inaccurate Scottish stories”
ie. these social media accounts are just anyone with opinions that diverge from the MSM. The Atlantic Council have done this before, when they “identified” ordinary bloke Ian456 on Twitter as a “Russian bot”. Sky News put him on TV. It was hilarious.
‘The SNP have said it themselves.’ ….No actual examples in that article and ‘likely’ not ‘highly likely’ even. How could an outsider evidence a reply f they don’t even say which the alleged trolling accounts are? We should also remember that companies like SCL (British) boast of influencing elections and introducing fake news to social media for money.
Isn’t the majority of Scotland owned by the City of London? If that’s true Scotland will never be allowed to become independent. They’ll march in the troops if they have to.
No, it isn’t. The Crown Estate Scotland is devolved.
In the paper last week was that the largest landowner now is a Danish billionaire.
And where does he keep his money?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
The Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire (Documentary)
At the demise of empire, City of London financial interests created a web of secrecy jurisdictions that captured wealth from across the globe and hid it in a web of offshore islands. Today, up to half of global offshore wealth is hidden in British jurisdictions and Britain and its dependencies are the largest global players in the world of international finance.
Caitlin Johnstone, brought this to my attention via SOTT. Her analysis and breakdown maybe even better – but this is what she referenced, which itself is a reference to the following. Personally, I think once a can of worms is opened, and the genie is out of the bottle, then putting it back is almost impossible. Too many people know, that they are brainwashing us with nonsense.
Tony
“The US military’s vision for state censorship”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/05/pers-o05.html
Extract
“In March, the United States Special Operations Command, the section of the Defense Department supervising the US Special Forces, held a conference on the theme of “Sovereignty in the Information Age.” The conference brought together Special Forces officers with domestic police forces, including officials from the New York Police Department, and representatives from technology companies such as Microsoft.”
Scottish nationalism is a threat to British state security. SNPers need to be regularly reminded of that, for some, terrifying fact. Our adversary is devious, tenacious and ruthless, so no taking tea with the auld enemie.
Do hope Nicola is proved the smartest cookie in the box….very soon.
Are you going to show us a fake picture of Nicola having tea with Vladimir?
The Leave vote was far stronger than the Remain vote, because leave meant leave altogether, but Remain, at least it appeared, only meant remain half-way in, because full membership would involve joining the Euro, which few want, hence why no Euro referendum was ever held.
I always doubted the government, unelected establishment, would honour a leave vote, but the leave vote was vital to stop the Euro referendum promise being trumped by a remain vote and then used to take us into further integration and joining the Euro to solve the EU crisis. Whatever the final ‘deal’, the talk of ending austerity, which was always about joining the Euro rather than balancing the books, is evidence there is now no prospect of UK joining the Euro, which vindicates the Leave vote.
O/T
whilst Iran is vouching to stick to the terms of the internationally agreed nuclear deal, despite the ongoing sanctions makingn US words sounding hollow,
Its neighbour Saudi Arabia is threatening retaliatory actions against any sanctions by the US or any other western country.
It believes that the world economy can’t do without its many investments and or its pivotal position in the oil price setting via production targets.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/fall-jamal-khashoggi-saudis-warnen-usa-vor-wirtschaftssanktionen-a-1233181.html
@nevermind,
I fear the US, possibly followed by the UK, will not place any sanctions on Saudi Arabia (rather like the way they protect another country in the region), because of the possible loss in arms sales – losing out to China and Russia.
Meanwhile, the neocons in the US will keep up the call for war against Iran, the country which they still call – the major state sponsor of terrorism around the world, a ridiculous assertion which our MSM are only too willing to repeat.
Higgins/Bellingcat again
MH17: Fake photo was used to falsely claim there was a Russian Buk in Ukraine
October 15, 2015 (updated Oct. 25)
Sergey Mastepanov
There are four photos and three videos showing the alleged rebel’s Buk. Only the “Paris Match” photos show this Buk at a close distance, which a group of “investigative journalists” named Bellingcat uses as proof that Buk came from Russia because of “Buk’s fingerprints.” These photos look clearly photoshopped to the naked eye. The characteristics of the other photos (Torez and Snizhne), which appeared in the social media and are also used by Bellingcat, suggest that Buk and some other vehicles could have been easily added there with the help of Photoshop.
The aim of this article is to show with pictures the areas of Donetsk “Paris Match” photos, which point out that they are fake, to show how approximately they were made, to show examples how Buk could have been added in the other two photos, to point out who uses the fake “Paris Match” photos and Bellingcat’s flawed analysis as evidence, and to provide other information.’
/..
http://energia.su/mh17/fake_buk.html
There have been many actions in support of the three protesters sentenced by Judge Altham. Two of the protesters come from Devon
Two gatherings were held today –
Sunday 14 October 2018
Solidarity walk on Dartmoor. In support of three men jailed for their part in an anti-fracking protest outside Cuadrilla’s shale gas site. 10.45am for 11am start, meet at Haytor car park, Dartmoor, South Devon TQ13 9XT. Details
Let Communities Decide: Fracking protest in Cambridge. Friends of the Earth to build a garden shed and a drilling rig to help explain the organisation’s opposition to proposals to make shale gas exploration permitted development. 12 noon, Burleigh Street, Cambridge CB1. Details
___________
Other actions are listed here:
What’s happening this week? 8-14 October 2018
Let Communities decide2
In this week’s listings
High Court hearing on injunction against fracking at Preston New Road;
Cuadrilla’s expected start date for fracking at Preston New Road;
Let Communities Decide week of local action on government proposals to change the planning rules for shale gas;
Shadow minister to visit anti-fracking campaigners at Preston New Road;
Plus meetings, training, film screenings.
Full diary for October 2018 and beyond. Please let us know here if you’d like us to add your events or if any details are wrong.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/drillordrop.com/2018/10/07/whats-happening-this-week-8-14-october-2018/amp/
Did you attend either of the gatherings?
No. Did you? And mind your own business.
Two of my brothers attended an event.
Terrible lies and Israeli propaganda being broadcast on BBC2 right now in Simon Reeve’s travelogue on the Eastern Mediterranean. He hasn’t reached Gaza so far and it will be interesting to see if any truths emerge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2018/42/mediterranean-with-simon-reeve
Even the blurb is dishonest.
I remember seeing his visit to Moscow where instead of showing us the splendours of the Kremlin or something of Moscow social life or something useful, he instead decided to visit someone whose flat had a compulsory purchase order so as to modernise, something that happens even in these sceptres isles, just to show how oppressive the state was. His other visits in Russia also showed some Siberian town with a high rate of alcoholics and a visit to a cult with their leader pretending to be a prophet or something. Nothing good to see in Russia obviously.
That’s the reality of Russia for a lot of people, and it is to Reeves’ credit that he didn’t go for the usual tourist options.
Seconded, Ian. As far as some are concerned, the BBC can never, ever do anything right.
Well, I’m pretty sure the recent World Cup held in Russia, saw a mulitude of tourists and football fans saunter around without any problems.
Of course, social problems only exist in Russia, and nowhere else. As for the Whitehall influenced BBC its their job to show Russia in a poor light. Just as its RT and Sputniks job, to show Britain in a similar fashion.
I don’t know about you but I can’t wait for the picture of a beaming GRU operative being given a medal by Putin
that Bellingcat offered up as proof from the operatives ever loving Grandma.
Do Bellingcat not photoshop on the weekends – or is the tale a pile of pony?
“Terrible lies and Israeli propaganda being broadcast on BBC2 right now in Simon Reeve’s travelogue on the Eastern Mediterranean.”
Another mindless assertion. Could you explain why, in your opinion, the blurb is dishonest and furnish just a few examples of the “lies”. Just so neutral readers can make up their own mind after hearing both sides of the argument, so to speak?
Personally I see no dishonesty and no lies but perhaps I’ve overlooked something and would welcome correction.
Good news on the Assange front:
‘The Wikileaks founder has been cut off the Internet and phone communication since March 2018’:
https://sputniknews.com/latam/201810141068883649-ecuador-assange-govt-communications-restore/
‘The Ecuadorian government has partially restored communications for Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, the ITV report said Sunday.
“Ecuador has told WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange that it will remove the isolation regime imposed on him following meetings between two senior UN officials and Ecuador’s President Lenin Moreno on Friday,” Wikileaks statement says.
“Mr Assange was informed of Ecuador’s decision hours after Mr Grandi and Mr Kaye met with President Moreno,” it continues….’
Well, well, the UN can do a bit of good, on occasion…
There must be another Pentagon data dump on the way.
“MI6 recruited Sergei Skripal as a traitor to Russia, who for money revealed secrets of his nation to MI6, including identities of agents. That is the root of the Salisbury events, and it is not the sort of thing an Independent Scotland will be doing,” ideally.
Ideally . . .Scottish squirrels do exist.
Police Scotland and the Scottish Government are under pressure to disclose information about the unlawful collection of people’s data by officers using a secret GCHQ spy project called MILKWHITE.
https://theferret.scot/police-scotland-and-ministers-under-pressure-after-landmark-ruling-on-unlawful-spying/ (ECHR ruling Sept 2018)
Secret Scottish squirrels?
Police Scotland said in a statement: “Police Scotland does not comment on matters relating to intelligence agencies.”
Very interesting that, radar. Thanks for posting.
“A UK Government spokesperson said the IPA provided better privacy protections than Ripa, but it would give “careful consideration” to the European court’s findings.” To which I say: “Uh huh.”
I’m hearing tell that some of the items placed in Tesco foodbank boxes (which have to be bought in the store) find their way back on to the shelves.
Sources for that rather serious accusation, please. “I’m hearing that” is rather vague.
And reply came there none (of course 🙂 )
Is it true that Nicola Sturgeon wants to rename Edinburgh’s Princes Street “Alex and Rus Street” 🙂
PS Anyone who flies off the handle at that joke has a crap sense of humour!
Was your comment supposed to be funny? 🙂
Anyone who mistook it for a joke has a dodgy sense of humour!
Who said this?
“Were I the Argentinian government, I would (…) work hard on the darker diplomatic arts. I would identify a couple of Falkland Island councillors and put ten million dollars each into numbered Swiss accounts for them, on condition that they facilitate the provision of the free air ambulance service (which is easy to reconcile the conscience to, and an easy way to start). I would put attractive young Argentinian agents into the path of Falklanders, any Falklanders, at every opportunity.”
And what if the FSB were, perish the thought, to view Scotland in such a fashion?
Let’s imagine we’re at MI5 and having a wee think on the possibilities and risks.
I have no faith that Scottish politicians will be any less corruptible than any others. Or blackmailable. Edinburgh has aped the setup in London in many respects and has done exactly the same job of dragging all investment to the south-east.
Ukraine has an energy sector? That’s gotta be news in itself.
The UK’s Energy Sector policy is to capitalise on cheap oil from the recent colonisation of Iraq and Libya. Cheap Brunei, Saudi, Scottish and Iraqi oil is available now , and Libyan, Somalian, and Central Asian oil is still awaiting further de-stabilisation by Al-Qaida Western-funded Islamist terror and total capitulation of the sovereign states inviolved.
Or as Obama put it. “We might need Islamic State for our regional interests for another 20 years. ”
As soon as the Iraqi elections had been fully rigged against all opposition, Mrs May announced no rise in fuel tax.
if hard Brexit will achieve anything useful, it will put a stop to the global warming caused by shunting little bits of cars on diesel lorries and ships on a daily basis to and fro across the Channel. A dirty little secret the car industry doesn’t want you to know about the carbon footprint of expensive cars.
@ Observer October 15, 2018 at 00:00
I don’t know about an energy sector, but their water sector knocks ours into a cocked hat:
‘A damning report should spell the end of England’s privatised water industry’:
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2018/10/14/a-damning-report-should-spell-the-end-of-englands-privatised-water-industry/?__s=seteeshtqok6ahengz28
‘…The study revealed that the companies were borrowing money in order to pay for high dividends to shareholders. The cash balance of the water industry after operation costs amounted to £1.5bn on average in most years. However, the industry was paying out over £2bn to shareholders – far in excess of its cash balance. A total of £61bn has been paid to shareholders since 1991.
So, according to the report, the habit of borrowing to pay dividends to shareholders, alongside interest payments, has led to the rise in consumer bills. Additionally, it says the water companies could have covered costs and profited without such borrowing….’
And a lot of Bliarites still adore Thatcher. Looks like Gordon Brown brought Thatcher’s Gerry Grimstone in in 2008 to finish the job:
‘It’s Labour’s turn to sell the family silver’:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/2795226/Its-Labours-turn-to-sell-the-family-silver.html
Generations of British working people taxes to build all this infrastructure and services up, and then along come high-class con merchants to flog it all off to their Big Business mates.
And the public not only stand for it, they keep voting the shysters in.
Radio4 used Sunday afternoon’s prime listening time programme Profile to enthuse and ooze about Elliot Higgins. Leicester man, like the murderer of the royal twins in the tower of London and dug up in a council car park, has been greatly maligned. He is a passionate seeker after truth whose need for a horse, after being defeated by Putin in Syria, accidentally gelled into Mrs May’s utter bollocks on Novichok.
The BBC might regret having dug him up.
I presumed that that puff for Higgins was government propaganda, subtly or not so subtly validating his activities. Good of him to go in for nepotism and give a nice job to his brother on the deniable state funding he gets.
Rally the insiders by creating an external, contrived, enemy. Sabotage Brexit by promoting EU solidarity against Russia. Hence as the SNP is pro-EU it goes along with the anti-Russian rhetoric.
Gilbert and Sullivan cont’d
‘The former police chief for Scotland, who resigned amid allegations of bullying, has landed a major new role in policing.
Phil Gormley will be named as an inspector of constabulary, overseeing the performance of forces in England and Wales, the BBC understands.
He resigned as the chief constable of Police Scotland in February, during a series of investigations into claims of gross misconduct.
He has always denied any wrongdoing.’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45855402
He is the vey model of a modern……
That would be absurd ONLY IF the allegations were found to be true after the investigations to which you refer. Was that the case?
There were multiple accusations against him, some from officers and civvy staff, he fell on his sword, to save his reputation.
Sir Stephen House wasn’t much better, both are in my opinion hewn from the same rock, as Cressida Dick.
Accusations are no better than allegations, RoS, they are not proof and therefore violate the presumption of innocence.
The point is Charles he resigned and the investigation ended. Given the senior position he held it is quite disgraceful that the allegations were not still investigated. He’s now in another very senior position. It beggars belief that this could happen. Right now all we’re hearing about is how bullying in public life is not acceptable and then we see this! You really shouldn’t dismiss such things.
Oh well Charles. A belated recognition by you of the presumption of innocence. Shame you don’t recognise it consistently. Still, from acorns…..
Make that number 59.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_British_throne
On the Brexit referendum (and others).
It seems to me that a referendum on matters with fundamental constitutional consequences cannot be allowed to operate on a simple majority basis (as was the case with the Brexit and Scottish referendums).
It seems to me that two conditions should be attached to any such referendum (ie with fundamental constitutional consequences) in order for the vote to be valid:
1/. there should be a minimum turnout of all registered voters
2/. of those voting, at least x% should have voted in favour of the proposal.
Those two percentages could be 66% ie two-thirds.
The above would go some way to reflecting practice in many countries when it comes to the parliament modifying written constitutions, ie, a “super-majority” is required of the legislature and not a simple one.
It could be argued that such a system as proposed would mean that questions could not be put in the same way as the Brexit question was put in the UK referendum (ie, two questions, “do you want to stay” and “do you want to leave”) because it is possible that the vote for both questions would not meet the second condition. In this connection, it seems to me that the wording and form of the referendum question should be such that the onus should be placed on those electors who wish to change the status quo. Hence the question in the Brexit referendum should have been “do you want to leave the EU”.
Too late for Brexit (perhaps), but not too late for a future referendum on “independence” for Scotland.
There’s much to be said in favour of a super-majority being required when it involves changing a written constitution.
It per-supposes though hat not only should there be a written constitution, but that it itself should have been agreed subject to the two conditions you mention.
No, I don’t think it makes any difference whether the constitution is written or not. The point you musn’t forget is the one of great constitutional importance. Surely it is absurd that matters such as Brexit and Scottish independence can be decided by a simple majority (which could in theory be as little as by 1 vote on a 25% turnout). That is just a recipe for saying that whatever the result, a majority of the electorate did not vote for it (as has frequently been said on here re. both the referendums in question).
You would have a point if Scotland had a balanced media not one totally controlled by Westminister, directed to preserve the Union. Under these conditions 50 + 1% will be a major achievement!
I thought Carole Cadwalladr’s Guardian article about open source journalism and lack of government transparency was very interesting. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/13/citizen-journalists-open-source-investigation-bellingcat … Though I’m not sure about all the details … one thing that I don’t see is why the panic is so centred on Russia, I would imagine that social media is a total free for all and many companies, criminals, government agencies and ordinary hackers are doing fake news, influencing opinions, or stealing data at various levels and with various aims. Don’t we have proof (partly due to her Cambridge Analytica story) that UK companies with establishment links are involved in spreading fake news?
I’ve tried to draw her attention to this inconsistency quite a few times. No avail.
I hear that Sturgeon had a press conference in London today. Barely a mention on BBC radio Scotland news or BBC radio 4 news so far. It’s almost as if someone with god-like powers does not want Sturgeon to be heard.
Half of Scotland is sleep-walking into a British nightmare with Brexit. I have said before that if Brexit goes ahead, I want it to be as destructive and damaging as possible and my position on that hasn’t changed.
It’s time for the idiots of the world to pay for their stupidity, in Scotland and the rest of the UK. We don’t know what the cost of Brexit will be, of course. Estimates range from a huge 5% drop in trade and GDP, with a concomitant hit on jobs, to apocalyptic.
I think we are going into an interesting week. Please fasten your seatbelts.
Hatuey
“Half of Scotland is sleep-walking into a British nightmare with Brexit.”
My post at 09:35 above will help you understand why the “half” bit is tripe (clue : what was the turnout and how many voted to leave and to remain).
BTW, not that anyone of us can prove anything either way, but I would tend to agree with Laguerre’s presumption that those who didn’t bother to vote were probably content to remain (on the basis of my idea that it is primarily incumbent on those who wish to change the status quo to manifest themselves).
I’ve been listening to people babble on about turnout levels for decades. There’s a reason you seldom hear politicians talk about it in this country; it’s moot.
I actually did multivariate analysis on factors that influence turnout at university many years ago using regression etc. The biggest factors, out of the factors I looked at, was the perceived “safeness” of the seats and weather. It was as moot and boring a subject then as it is now.
No excuses can be based on turnout.
Did you do a paper on that and if so, could you reference it for me?
In any event, though, you are comparing apples and pears : a nation-wide referendum on a single, non-party matter like Brexit or Scottish independence is hardly to be compared in importance to the elections it would appear you did your research on.
Far from being moot, the subject of turn-out seems especially pertinent in the case of these two referendums.
As for the subject being boring, well, that is no argument at all, is it, even if it were true. Which it isn’t to many, as evidenced by the amount of discussion (on here as elsewhere) on whether the figures in those two referendums can really be seen as expressing the will of the people.
I’d suggest finally that if one’s honest, then fear of not winning a future referendum held according to the modalities I suggested should not influence your judgement about whether those modalities are valid.
Minor point but IMHO, Nicola should be making such important speeches either in Edinburgh or Brussels. Going to the Imperial capital panders to its self importance. The position of 35 SNP MPs matters not a jot but they twist on the whims of 15 dinosaur denying, sectarian bigots. Time to stop believing we can be a sovereign, independent country and start acting like one.
“It’s time for the idiots of the world to pay for their stupidity…”
Careful what you wish for, you often strike me as an idiot. (though I often strike myself as an idiot, so you’re in excellent company.)
Some glueful interloper here seems to think that politics stands still when it comes to another Brexit referendum, regardless of the changed stark consequences that face all those that work to make the rich even richer.
At the same time s/he suggests that we can change the rules for referenda when it applies to another indyref.
Dream on, such sticky plaster solution does not deal with the inherent unfair and disproportional electoral system.
Dont give up your day/troll job.
Nevermind
I thought I had made it clear that the suggested modalities for future referendums on matters of great constitutional significance should apply to both a second Scottish referendum and a possible second Brexit referendum.
I do not see the relevance of a proportional electoral system to referendums but would be happy to be enlightened by you.
Finally, I do not have a “day/troll” job, whatever you mean by that. Are you aware that calling fellow posters trolls is usually disapproved of by the moderators?
Charles
I agree with you that the referendum result was too close to base an important constitutional decision on.
Mrs May is governing on molten ice, because the bribery of the DUP is unconstitutional. It’s bad government and the Tories are bad as well. Whatever this minority government decides, it has no legitimacy because of these two faults.
In effect this cack-handed recidivist war-criminal party should resign and call a general election.
It’s a pitiful situation when the loyalty of Tory businessmen is trashed by dodgy speculators, Johnson Fox and Rees-Mogg and the loyalty of the Northern Irish has to be bought.
The essence of the problem is that the MSM blamed the New Labour party for the deliberate crashing of the world economy by the same Thatcherite foaming at the mouth speculators that now want to prize us from the EU safety net. They blamed Labour for their banking gambling and now they want to increase their gambling stakes with a hard Brexit.
Commonsense tells us that gamblers should be forced to not gamble. I hear gambling addicts can no longer place an online bet. Hubris Johnson, slime Fox and Rees-Morgue are addicted gamblers and Mrs May enjoys having these weak-minded colleagues in her cabinet.
Here we have gerrymandering the areas, but things are a lot worse in the States:
‘90,000 Purged in Vegas and Reno: Are You on the List that will Steal the Senate?’:
https://www.gregpalast.com/90000-purged-in-vegas-and-reno/
They use a sneaky trick of ‘cross-checking’ names in other States; if they find a rough equivalent, they scrub the victim off the State Vooting Register, on the grounds they have ‘moved’, without checking.
It is clearly just a scam; most of the checked people have not moved, and may be blissfully unaware they have been removed from the register. What with that, ‘hanging chads’ and deliberately hackable electronic voting machines, with no paper trail, voting in the States is like voting in Zimbabwe.
Being danish and far away from Scotland.my opinion is worthless. Just as you know.
Scotland is about same size population, so Indepence from that angle is doable. However we do have, some heavy-hitting companies in Denmark, Maersk, Lego, Novo, Bestseller, Carlsberg and Vestas.
We have not outsourced production at large, well B&W was bought by Man, and Danish Crown is largely Danish, and Arla is Danish too. Much was done to retain jobs, but not enough. Our workforce is very skilled, through comprehensive courses.
We are a useless little insignificant country, albeit our foot print on the global scene is far above our weight.
How did we do that ? We did it, in the 50- 60 and 70 ties. Strong unions, free education and a sense of everybody matters and everybody pulls according to ability and letting no one sink beyond poverty and uselessness. It was costly but we managed. Sweden had it far more easy, larger population and not participant in WWII, instead making a load on the war. Sweden in the 60 ties was Nirvana for a poor boy like me.
I have been around the world, the Danish, Swedish model is humane and 98 % right. We have a sense of comfort and security unparalleled any where in the world.
Can Scotland do that? Yes the can, but it will cost and demand resources and use of every single citizen, but they can if they truly want.
Scots are not wankers, they are tough and resilent, I share blood with them.
I hope to before I die to visit an independent Scotland, have a few drinks, and mayby have a loooooooong talk with a fair lass.
Cheers 😀
Ah, strong unions, we used to have those in Britain until Thatcher destroyed them.
The only remaining workers in Britain with strong unions are the railway workers. I don’t know how they did it.
@ Blunderbuss
It is certainly true that in the unions’ heyday the UK was more heavily unionised than most continental European countries.
One of the less pleasant reasons for that was the existence of the closed shop, now mercifully made illegal.
In a way, the situation in the UK had caught up with that obtaining in most of the other continental countries of Europe, ie, unions are strongest in the public sector and weak in the private sector.
@ Charles Bostock October 15, 2018 at 16:34
I vonder vi that is? Perhaps you like the ‘Big Guys’ having all the clout, and the workers being dealt with piecemeal?
Such a thing!
@ Blunderbuss October 15, 2018 at 15:30
I’m all for strong Unions, but sometimes they can take the piss: the Railway Union’s Mick Cash apparently gets £154,000 a year:
http://www.pressreader.com/uk/evening-standard-west-end-final/20181011
That is approx. £3080 pounds a week. Who is he working for? I he perhaps an Establishment Trojan Horse, opening the way for even more draconian anti-Union laws?
This is not at all a far-fetched idea (though I am not saying I believe it, just that it is a serious possibility). The US took control of the US Unions via the Mafia. I suspect MI5 here (is there so much difference, already?).
Like the Militant geezer in Liverpool way back, who showed his true colours by joining the Establishment, after sabotaging genuine worker’s interests by calling for the impossible?
and the canny scots will be queuing up to have their tax returns published