I have been gently chided for not giving my reactions to the SNP conference, which I attended as a delegate.
Nicola’s major speech was very good. The media universally attempted to characterise it as kicking a new Independence referendum into the long grass. I did not hear it that way at all. I think they are clutching at the straw of her single mention of patience and perseverance, against the fact she used the word “Independent” or “Independence” an extraordinary 31 times in her speech. Of course she wishes to retain flexibility and an element of surprise, but as someone who has studied the matter extremely closely and who distrusts the highly paid SNP professional “elite” on this issue, I was reassured as to Nicola’s intentions.
The members are in extremely good heart and very confident. I was personally much touched by the many scores of individuals who bothered to come up to me and say they followed the blog. The conference agenda was somewhat bland, though fizzing with righteous anger at the effects of austerity on the vulnerable. My major criticism would be that far too high a percentage of total speaking time on the conference floor is given to MP’s, MSP’s and MEP’s. Constituency proposed motions, for example, were too often used as a showcase for the MP/MSP rather than introduced by an ordinary party member.
I dislike the political class now attached to the SNP in just the same way that I distrust the professional political class in every political party. The horrible Alex Bell should be a serious warning of the kind of false hypocrites that a salary will attract “to the cause”. Seeing MPs I knew as just punters campaigning in 2014, now walking proudly before power dressed entourages of paid staff, was a strangely unpleasant experience.
My major concern is that the SNP’s foreign policy and defence teams at Westminster appear to have been entirely captured by the UK establishment and indeed the security services. They have been willing and instant amplifiers of the Tories’ Russophobia.
It appears to me truly remarkable that I was not allowed to hire a room for a fringe meeting on Independence campaigning, but that the “Westminster Foundation for Democracy” – which is an FCO front and 90% FCO and DFID funded – was allowed a room on the fringe to hold this anti-Russian propaganda fest with a Ukrainian MP imported by the FCO.
Furthermore the meeting was co-hosted by the SNP and “Westminster Foundation for Democracy” and featured two SNP MPs.
I took issue with two other senior SNP figures last month over the party’s slavish devotion to what the UK intelligence services tell them.
The problem here is of course that the SNP is accepting a UK-centric vision of the world. This is a fundamental error, a category mistake. Because Russia is in an antagonistic relationship with the UK does not mean Russia should or will have an antagonistic relationship to an Independent Scotland.
Whatever happened in Salisbury, the root cause was spy games between Russia and the UK. Precisely the kind of spy games an independent Scotland must have no part of.
MI6 recruited Sergei Skripal as a traitor to Russia, who for money revealed secrets of his nation to MI6, including identities of agents. That is the root of the Salisbury events, and it is not the sort of thing an Independent Scotland will be doing. If an Independent Scotland is just going to behave like the UK in foreign affairs, carrying on neo-con foreign policy by illegitimate methods, I see no point in Scotland being independent. The Skripal affair, whatever really happened, is part of an entire system which most people in the Yes movement wish to get out of. We do not see the UK’s enemies as our enemies.
But the UK security services are our enemies. Scottish nationalism is defined in security service tasking as a threat to the UK and we are targets of the UK security services. The British government is not going to agree to another Independence referendum and we are going to have to win Independence, like the Catalans, in the teeth of every dirty abuse of British state power.
I would feel very much better if the SNP leaders, like Chris Law and John Nicholson both of whom I count as friends, would sometimes draw a deep breath, forget what they imbibed as Westminster MPs, and remember which side they are on.
Epistle to the Religious – You should have stayed awake during your physics and maths class, and studied psychology too. Then you might have some defence from the brainwashing and lies from The Malthusians, who are still doing their best to kill you.
Tony
https://www.sott.net/article/398476-The-Dark-Story-Behind-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Those-Who-Created-it-And-Why
Extract
“Lindzen described how “an implausible conjecture backed by false evidence, repeated incessantly, has become ‘knowledge,’ used to promote the overturn of industrial civilization.” Our world indeed needs a “staggering transformation,” but one that promotes health and stability of the human species instead.”
More anti-science Tony? Shame on you.
Population cycles are clearly observable in my local rabbit population. Malthus’ prediction of a human population crash didn’t materialise, and if he’d tried to predict the specific years of rabbit population crashes he’d have probably been wrong about that too. But populations can and do crash.
“Malthus’ prediction of a human population crash didn’t materialise”
Wasn’t that because he didn’t predict the impact of the industrial revolution on food production? And later the advances in medicine? The human race today is dependent on an agrochemical industry that requires 4 calories of hydro-carbons to produce 1 calorie of food. Sooner or later all this will catch up with mankind, presumably when there are enough robots to make the working poor redundant.
Yes, that’s pretty much what happened. As to what will happen, I dunno, but this worries me a lot more than the UN / Agenda 21 conspiracy theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
@Clark
Aren’t you going to accuse Tony_0pmoc of being a cocky cantankerous egotist?
No. Tony can do science, and when he gets the science right he’ll change his mind. He’s worked in technology for much of his life, and he knows that when in error, the only solution is to admit it so it can be put right. He knows that if you wire the output of an op-amp to its inverting input, the system will exhibit negative feedback producing a stable output, whereas if you wire the output to the non-inverting input, the system will exhibit positive feedback making the output zoom to one extreme or the other, producing a bistable otherwise known as a flip-flop. He knows that exactly the same components can produce these two completely different behaviours just by changing one connection, and that if it’s wired wrong no amount of bullshitting will put it right, no matter how well you can argue nor how highly qualified you are.
You think that science is nothing more than opinion, yours to warp and joust with for amusement. You think that science is about authority rather than data and logic, and that by “winning” you increase your authority.
@Clark
“You think that science is nothing more than opinion, yours to warp and joust with for amusement. You think that science is about authority rather than data and logic, and that by “winning” you increase your authority”.
For somebody who has never met me, you claim to know an awful lot about me – most of it completely false.
When it comes to increasing your authority by winning, I’m not a patch on you.
@Clark
It seems to me that you are projecting. You are perceiving your own faults in me.
– “For somebody who has never met me, you claim to know an awful lot about me”
Was your previous username not “villager”?
@Clark
“Was your previous username not “villager”?”
No. Where did that come from?
Then I may have misjudged.
Possibly that was “Doodlebug”. We seemed to have an influx of antique weapons, and I got confused.
@Clark
I haven’t been on this blog very long and the only name I have used is Blunderbuss.
Thanks. Sorry I misjudged.
Mr. Murray,
I admire you for facing your personal trials and tribulations throughout your professional and personal life.
Like you, I am wary of all who acquire power and forget they are morally obliged to show due fealty to the people of this Country (Scotland).
As an aging Independista, I offer my continued support to you and the others who want this Country to join the family of nations again and show the people of the World that there is a better way for their Country, the people and Wildlife of this Planet as well as the Environment.
Kind regards,
Ian
Regarding the strange death of Jamal Khashoggi, when I first heard of this story assumed it was a PR stunt and that he’d turn up alive somewhere, giving western politicians a staged opportunity to pretend that some semblance of morality exists in their relations with Saudi Arabia. I was, of course, wrong. He is dead.
The thing that really puzzled me from the start was that the Khashoggi story was everywhere, alongside the most open and frank discussions on arms sales to Saudi Arabia that I have ever seen. Why?
Why, after all these years, is our media talking quite so honestly about Saudi Arabia’s brutality, lack of democracy, and lust for arms?
So, I thought, time to apply the usual filters; if the western media are putting a Middle Eastern leader in a dim light, as they are the Crown Prince, it can only mean one thing; he must have done something to upset them (like threatened to feed the poor or build schools instead of buying arms).
I did about an hour of research and it turns out I was wrong there too; the Crown Prince, even by Saudi standards, is a caste-iron fisted brutal despot — schools and poverty do not feature in his plans at all. In actual fact, he ticks all the boxes that make him an ideal ally of the West, on arms deals, keeping ordinary people out of the way, supporting western friends, opposing Iran, etc.
Back to the drawing board…
Finally, at last, I struck upon something interesting — Khashoggi himself. In the West he’s been portrayed as some sort of dissident voice who has been critical of Saudi authoritarianism and wants to bring democracy to Saudi Arabia. This picture of Khashoggi couldn’t be further from the truth.
It turns out he basically sided with the wrong prince and his murder had nothing to do with democracy or the cause of righteousness. He had been an apologist for the Saudi government for years and even had very close ties to Al Qaeda— there’s pictures of him holding guns alongside Osama Bin Laden.
Khashoggi was no Jeffersonian Democrat. That much is clear, if nothing else.
https://therealnews.com/stories/duplicitous-khashoggi-picked-the-wrong-prince
How about a PR stunt to get everyone’s mimd off the weather modification, especially in the Gulf?
Trowbridge, yes. funny how the country that thinks it controls the weather seems to be getting all the storms. if Trump meets Allah, one of them going to blow the other out of this world. 2nd Amendment I do believe
Trow, man, you are some rainmaker! But please don’t rain on erdogan’s parade.
If any one is in doubt, God if there is one thing i hate on this planet it’s the f***ing ‘House of Saud.’
What was God thinking when he gave them all that Black Gold?
Am sure their people are just fine, pray for them. I had occasion to have dinner with some of them in the desert of the then Partitioned Neutral Zone with Kuwait when I was doing some work for Mr Getty. They were very hospitable. Great big platter of lamb and rice.
Now this one goes out to my Scot friends on here. People put out such crap music music links here (most of the time). Hope this one rises above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CuoPHc1B1M
I think this man Alpha Blondy (translates to First Bandit) is a genius and a special human being.
I don’t want to rain on ahytone’s parade, especially Erdogan’s.
;Looks like a serious miscalculation by the WH warmakers.;
– “What was God thinking when he gave them all that Black Gold?”
“Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad”
Well this is surely going to open a Pandora’s box!?
@ Observer October 18, 2018 at 21:35
‘..What was God thinking when he gave them all that Black Gold?..’
You seem to be unaware that both Christians and Muslims agree that the Devil runs this world.
See ‘And the devil led him (Jesus) into a high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And he said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them. If thou therefore wilt adore before me, all shall be thine.’ Luke lV : 5-7
On at least three occasions Jesus refers to the Devil as the ‘Prince of this world’.
That is why rotten people get to the top in virtually all spheres, and why good people get it in the neck.
This world is a trial (there is a rational explanation for this, but I won’t go into it here, as it is already ‘Off Topic’).
Like your music link.
“What was God thinking when he gave them all that Black Gold?”
This is where the Norse gods (and, to some extent, the ancient Greek ones) make far more sense.
They regarded the human race more or less as modern people regard reality TV. Sometimes it’s hard to believe how crass, stupid, and selfish they are – but at best it’s a real hoot and at worst mildly amusing.
Thank you observer, what was god thinking when he gave them all that black gold? he was testing to see if men could transcend venality, misogyny, wahabism and thuggery. He has his answer and we are witness to it. The yankees are now desperate to see regime change in the kingdom and to restore their old princes and benefactors who were so recently incarcerated and robbed. I dont see much chance of that but whatever happens, the middleast has just met an unexpected arab spring. I doubt this will turn out well but it proves yet again that the gods are crazy.
” an apologist “. The amir al mu’mineen / leader of the believers as he has been brought up to see himself does not need apologists when he aspires to the Divine right of Kings, absolute authority and comprehensive dogs bollocks. Funny the way the crown prince maintains the Blair rictus grin in self -denial of his copious war-crimes.
A clear sign of severe mental illness, paranoia about revenge for his milliard of terrorist mass killings, and ridiculous camouflage for his totally heretical concept of religious leadership being tied to family connections, a crime he has punished many people for when they are Shi’a, doing the same as him.
stalin comes to mind.
The Saudi royals don’t have the right to the title of amir al mu’mineen / leader of the believers, neither the king nor crown prince. That is the title of the legitimate ruler, or caliph, of the Muslims, only claimed recently by the Caliph of Isis. The Saudi ruler is ‘malik’, king, a secular title.
Laguerre, exactly
Well, as much as I find talk of weather modification and the psychology of the prince interesting, none of that answers the central question — why is the western media suddenly so keen on discussing arms deals and Saudi human rights abuses?
Why after so many years of turning a blind eye and effectively covering up Saudi abuses, do we suddenly have a US president on mainstream TV being asked if his $100 billion arms contract might be reconsidered?
More than that, the media is openly asked what many of us have been asking for years — should we really be arming these murdering crackpots to the teeth? For the first time, the MSM is expressing serious reservations about Saudi Arabia’s role in Yemen, etc.
These are important questions.
Good question.
The media only opens its opinionated mouth when it is allowed to.
It obviously thinks it’s got permission.
The Triumvirate of Israel/US and Saudia Arabia may be bossom buddies for now but this young Prince seems
to be toying with the idea of modernising the economy ( read – not just doing oil but productive things – see Venezuela ) and maybe just maybe the US is not too happy about the diversification?
If you remember The Beverley Hillbillies and Mr Drysdale the Banker he too was always trying to stay in charge of their money.
The US is like Mr Drysdale.
Oh and of course the upcoming attack on Iran.
Mr Drysdale to be fair to him never declared war on any nation.
If he had Granny would have marmalised him.
why is the western media suddenly so keen on discussing arms deals and Saudi human rights abuses?
I read somewhere that Khashoggi was the CIA’s. Maybe Mohammed bin Salman is being taught a lesson for overstepping the mark.
Was he wearing a ‘wire’ (a la Rosenstein) when he enterred the consulate?
“Was he wearing a ‘wire’ (a la Rosenstein) when he enterred the consulate?”
Whatever, he certainly wasn’t when he left.
@ Observer October 19, 2018 at 04:10
Yes, it has been widely reported he had a ‘smart watch’, which recorded and transmitted audio.
Thanks again observer, clearly his ‘smart watch’ had no algorithm or alarm that indicated risk factors or supreme folly. After the shakedown of all the other princes khashoggi was supremely stupid to have gone there. Given his knowledge and associations he should have been aware of his vulnerability.
Tipping point, plus the media is fuelled by sensationalism.
There’s an article on consortium news stating the same . However , I share your first curiosity : why is the media and resirctive states embarking on it with such fervour . My guess is s bit of regime change is intended along the way, another more favourable prince in mind for some western states. Such condemnation of the Saudis is certainly not arising from human rights’ concerns . War on Yemen has started in 2015 and only the bare essential condemnation in the press .
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/10/15/khashoggi-was-no-critic-of-saudi-regime/
Try this CT I am about to just make up.
The pathocracy of bankers who have decided to rule the planet hundreds of years ago have always supported both sides of a war they created to get richer. They do this by paying for and creating proxy forces to achieve their conquests. For example as they did with the rise of the nazis in the attempt to take over european empires and russia. When their proxy fails to achieve the primary goal, they send in their home armies to do the job instead. That is why the US got involved with attacking Germany in WW2 when the nazis got stopped by the red army (using the now standard false flag attack to gain public approval and sacrifice).
My thesis is that the Nazis were as much a proxy for imperialist conquest for the City and US based bankers to not only screw the French and Dutch empires but also to win Russia. (The brits and US were not as special a friends as has been made out since btw) and the Saudis are about to get the same treatment as Hitler and the Nazis, because they ran into their own ‘stalingrad’ in Syria and the plan A of the conquest of the seven sisters has been repelled. Unless the US gets its boots officially on the ground in Riyadh they risk the real Arabs supported by the Russians to roll in and impose a peace and their own new NWO in the ME.
Get those US bodybag factories rolling. Get these young AfroAmericans and poor whites ready to fill them.
I’ll stop at that scary thought, Halloween is round the corner, whattchathink?
More recent history shows that this ‘Western’ modus operandi was used in the case of Saddam Hussein, and more recently ISIS. There are concerns that the US/UK/Israeli axis have been prepping SA under MBS to attack Iran and that the war in Yemen is facilitated by the US/UK in order to give the Saudis (who’s air force fly more British built warplanes than the RAF) live fire practice against real targets, which explains why the Saudi’s bombed a school bus full of kids; practice for hitting large moving targets like tanks. It should be remembered that RAF personnel are stationed in Saudi Arabia to give the Saudi pilots ‘targeting training’
Without the UKUS embedded consultant mercenaries the Saudis would be wiped out by ANY fighting force – even the Kurdish womens battallion!
When it comes to slavery, camels, sheep, boys, falcons, toys, hypocritic playboys, misogynist bullyboys, public torture and sharp sword dances, the doe eyed inbred robed ones are masters of all they can buy – while they legitimise the robbery of oil over a century and murder and enslavement of 100’s of millions across arabia and africa.
The thieving murdering FUKUS aristos are ready to cut them loose, back to their desert trains and tents. I ain’t going to cry for them. Let the sands wipe them off the earth.
I have unlimited respect for the ancient arabic peoples and the civilisation and learning they brought to the human race – not the oil bought handful that are the proxies of the Old World Order. That have allowed a peaceful religion to be mutated into the sick wahhabist tool of the bankers.
Fuckem’all.
Why wait for reward in the afterlife when you can cash in now with a few ayat about jihad and very short trousers? OOmpa oompa oompa goes the political fruit-machine. Trouble is , all political Islam, from the frankinstein makers of CIA/MI6 torture rendition, to the mosque loudspeaker mob, all get funding from Saudi Arabia. The whole scam is too big to fail. every mafia has to install fear somehow.
“There are concerns that the US/UK/Israeli axis have been prepping SA under MBS to attack Iran”
The Saudis won’t attack Iran – they can’t even defend their own borders against the Houthis.
One can easily imagine a scenario where Iran is blamed for an hostile act in order to give the US an excuse to ride to their defence, much like they did in Gulf War 1 when half a million US troops deployed to Saudi Arabia.
Deb O’Nair
I for one find it very difficult to imagine that scenario, I’m afraid. It may be what some people wish would happen.The US is not going to attack Iran, there’s not going to be a WW3 and we shall still all be here in a year’s time. Chill!
“The brits and US were not as special a friends as has been made out since btw”
Lovers of money and power have no friends. No matter what they may pretend for tactical reasons. And remember that the biggest friendly smile and clap on the shoulder is that of the most horrible psychopath.
And here we go , one regime change to a more favourable prince coming up for sure . Whatever the current heir to succession was planning to do didn’t quite fit with western interests is my best guess .
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-19/saudi-allegiance-council-meeting-secret-consider-mbs-replacement-report
Regime change? Why not, what could possibly go wrong with that?
President Putin comments on the attempts to have RT shut down.
Putin on attempts to block RT: Russia winning race in ‘hearts and minds’ campaign
October 18 2018
“We only have one [global] media outlet, but even if it triggers such heartburn and agony that it could influence hearts and minds, then this means that we are winning this competition,” he emphasized
/..
http://tass.com/politics/1026750http://tass.com/politics/1026750
He is correct.
Good to see a self professed socialist arguing for those at the top of the inequality league table
See the second chart here
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/oct/18/hundreds-join-growing-list-of-britains-ultra-rich
The WH clearly thought that the Saudis would do a clever disappearing act on Khashoggii, not s brutal obvious murder.
If it wasn’t for that smart watch it would all be just a big mystery getting a fraction of the attention. The Turks have been acting on the fact that he was murdered from day one while Washington and London were playing damage limitation catch-up. Now they are talking to the Turks to give them some sweeteners to finger some low level Saudi officials so that they can say their pet despotic thug is innocent.
It wasn’t the watch – the Turks almost certainly had the consulate bugged, as is the game everywhere.
“It wasn’t the watch.”
Yes. I read an article last night stating that the watch would not have been able to transmit or transfer data to the iphone since the latter was in the car outside with Khashoggi’s partner. There were detailed techy explanations given regarding why this would be impossible.
Thanks THF. I do believe the Turks might have set khashoggi up. They may even have had a quiet chat with the ex ksa ambassador who awaits his own fate. Khashoggi was not a friend of Turkey and certainly would have been detested by nErdogan.
Erdogan is an Islamist so by definition he detests all Muslims, even those who bring Islamic principles to engage with their political minds. Erdogan’s vastly inflated ego probably sees himself as having more right to be the caliph of Islam than one of the heirs of those who plotted to destroy the Ottoman empire.
Of course, as with all deranged rulers, absolutely nobody else could possible share that opinion.. The straight-jacket is a wonderful invention. Erdogan probably thought the sauds were plotting with the US against him, so set up this terrifying scenario with the same Israeli team that video-ed all the ISIS crap.
Hollywood + TR becomes trolleywood, which exactly sums up Erdogan. I don’t think the Saudis would have shot themselves in the foot on purpose at this key time.
Scams and frauds in the UK everywhere you look extending into the recycling of plastics.
UK recycling industry under investigation for fraud and corruption
Exclusive: Watchdog examining claims plastic waste is not being recycled but left to leak into rivers and oceans
Thu 18 Oct 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/18/uk-recycling-industry-under-investigation-for-and-corruption
‘The Guardian understands information has been passed to the EA – the regulators – which shows huge discrepancies between the amount of packaging exports recorded by HM customs, compared to the amount UK exporters claim to have shipped.
The data, analysed by the Guardian, reveals British export firms claim to have shipped abroad 35,135 tonnes more plastic than HM Customs has recorded leaving the country.’
‘Where there’s muck, there’s money’ as the saying goes.
Where there’s money, there’s muck.
And the mafia. UK style of course.
Most (two thirds) local councils recycle waste ends up in landfill. Councils jumped on the recycling bandwagon in order to claim grants from the EU – they set up a few recycle bins on council estates, handed out some green buckets to private houses, pocketed the rest of the cash and ‘assumed’ their privatised profit making waste collection service providers would do the rest
Ever since the councils have tightened what waste can be taken to their lovely modern tips and restricted it to local homeowners – many hedgerows are full of plastic and building materials – local home improvement tradeen can’t afford to pay the extra and nor can homeimprovers, who may not even have the means.
S.Res.610 – A resolution urging the release of information regarding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks upon the United States.
Introduced in Senate (08/21/2018)
Resolves that documents related to the events of September 11, 2001, should be declassified to the greatest extent possible so as to provide answers to survivors, the families of the victims, and the people of the United States.
Latest Action: Senate – 09/26/2018 Resolution agreed to in Senate without amendment and with a preamble by Unanimous Consent.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-resolution/610
That was less than three weeks ago.
– “Worse, from the royals’ point of view, was that Khashoggi had dirt on Saudi links to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. He had befriended Osama bin Laden in the 1980s and 1990s in Afghanistan and Sudan while championing his jihad against the Soviets in dispatches. At that same time, he was employed by the Saudi intelligence services to try to persuade bin Laden to make peace with the Saudi royal family. The result? Khashoggi was the only non-royal Saudi who had the beef on the royals’ intimate dealing with al Qaeda in the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks. That would have been crucial if he had escalated his campaign to undermine the crown prince”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/death-of-a-dissident-saudi-arabia-and-the-rise-of-the-mobster-state/
Blumenthal seeks declassification of last 9/11 documents:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knItrZ3np7A
Sen. Richard Blumenthal On S. Res. 610:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNeSSC53Nds
On the one hand this makes sense, but on the other it doesn’t. From the Saudi POV it makes sense, but it doesn’t explain the cacophony of hypocritical caterwauling from every corner of Western politics and the MSM – coming from the same people who have looked on with benign indifference, or actively supported Saudi brutality for years – which seems frighteningly orchestrated even in this day and age.
I would have thought that if Khashoggi had any genuine inside knowledge on what was really going on around 9.11, then those very people orchestrating all the ranting and caterwauling would have been more than happy to see him quietly disposed of, and would have made sure the media lid on the story was tapped very firmly closed. The last thing they want is anything at all coming out that might clash with the official narrative.
Yours is an interesting suggestion, but Isa’s above – that it’s about regime change – is more logical. Even so, it leaves a lot of gaps. What on earth could bin Salman have done, and whose interests could he have threatened, to provoke this extraordinary level of sudden, deafening outrage – all the more striking because it’s so flagrantly hypocritical?
I actually don’t think the outrage has been that deafening to be honest. It’s all been most reluctant, the criticism, and kind of hesitant. We’ve heard things like, “If it is proven….” and it was only yesterday the UK said Fox wasn’t attending this conference thingy. We also had Trump suggesting it was “rogue” agents who killed Khashoggi.
I remain completely astonished that Mr Khashoggi set foot in that building. He surely had more than an inkling that his card was marked? I’d have been more concerned about remaining alive than with divorce documents.
Sorry but I disagree. This story has been running on the front page of all major media outlets for days. In response to much worse atrocities than this – hundreds of them, going back decades – the response has been a brief report, a ritual wringing of hands, and then forget it.
I absolutely guarantee that ten days ago, all these politicians making the pronouncements, however muted, and more particularly, all of the journalists writing these articles, were in the same position as you and me. They had never heard of Khashoggi. And yet now we’re all supposed to run around carrying on as if the Saudis had just crucified Jesus?
Something stinks about this whole story.
“Something stinks…”
On that we are agreed.
I realise I’m way off into tinfoil hat territory here, but thinking about it, a combination of both your suggestions actually makes sense.
It wasn’t Khashoggi who had information about 9.11 ( or something similar) that certain people don’t want leaking out. It’s bin Salman. He knows something, or has done something, or is planning something, that has annoyed some very important and powerful people in the West. Khashoggi was just another one of the endless victims of internecine strife in SA, and now he’s nothing more than a convenient excuse – like WMD in Iraq, “the slaughter of the innocents” in Libya, and those always-so-convenient chemical weapons attacks by Assad in Syria.
There’s another more obvious other reason for the media attention… and you can rule out regime change, that’s ridiculous.
On the one hand this makes sense, but on the other it doesn’t.
It doesn’t need to make sense, it just needs to support Clark’s theory (which he insists is the only 911 theory which isn’t a conspiracy theory) that Saudi hijackers destroyed the Twin Towers, but Building 7 was brought down on the same day by a demolition team hastily assembled by its owner to take advantage of the chaos.
Ha ha. Personally I think the ‘Saudis did it’ meme was a false story deliberately planted during the planning of 9/11 to misdirect those who started to doubt the official narrative. (Not that I’m saying there is any reason to doubt it 🙂 )
Really?
* Why do you think that?
* How many people were involved in the various investigations of 9/11, and how many of them were (and are) party to this conspiracy to deceive?
* What evidence do you have for this?
In this particular matter I’m just pointing out the timing. The 9/11 victims won the right to sue Saudi interests in 2016, but too much material was still classified for meaningful court cases to proceed. Some US civil cases were opened in London, but the UK government quashed them under “national security”. Most of the redacted 28 pages of the 9/11 Commission Report were released by Obama, but some information was still withheld.
Now, two years later, Blumenthal secures Res.610:
– “Resolves that documents related to the events of September 11, 2001, should be declassified to the greatest extent possible so as to provide answers to survivors, the families of the victims, and the people of the United States”
…and suddenly Khashoggi is disappeared.
And if you recall correctly Node, it isn’t my theory that “Building 7 was brought down on the same day by a demolition team hastily assembled by its owner to take advantage of the chaos”.
Did you misrepresent my position because you’re a conspiracy theorist, and thus wish to ridicule anyone detracting from Twin Tower Demolition theory?
https://i2.wp.com/theduran.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/isis_vs_saudi_arabia.jpg?w=600
It’s more than thirty-five years since I first visited The Kingdom and I do not believe it has changed appreciably since then, save the fact that the elite of the population has become even more affluent than they were. I spent almost ten years working in the middle east and I had time to evaluate the indigenous people of a number of nations in the region and, sadly, I found that if there wasn’t a line on the map one couldn’t tell the difference between any of them.
The Saudis, especially, I found were in the main basically insecure and that I believe stretched back to when their nation was formed from warring tribes by Ibn Saud in the early part of the last century. I found they were paranoid that some other entity was on the brink of depriving them of their oil wealth. I was there when one of their monarchs died and it was thirty six hours of great tension until they could collectively decide among the ruling elite who was to become the next ruler as there is no coherent and established line of succession.
Loss of face to them is the ultimate humiliation. Saudi Arabia had purchased from the west the most up to date armaments in quantities that other nations in the region couldn’t match. When the first gulf war ensued, despite their quantities of materiel they still had to call in the coalition forces to see off Saddam in neighbouring Iraq, because they thought they would be next in line after Kuwait. Nothing much was made of this fact in western media, but it was a great loss of face to the Saudi regime that they had to accept the necessary evil of a multitude infidels on their home soil.
All in all I found the Saudis to be feckless and arrogant with little regard for those who were dependent upon them, and indeed for those upon whom they themselves were dependant. I worked for a major American construction management organisation and they would come into my office and demand I put them on the payroll in some supervisory capacity as opposed to giving them employment. The employment was to be performed by expatriates and they would lend supervision whenever they deemed to turn up, usually on pay day.
Undoubtably, this mindset continues to the present day: that the ruling elite can do as they wish without repercussions which has tragically led to the elimination of Mr Khashoggi. President Trump’s envoy to Saudi Arabia this week was to agree with the regime what the official line will be to the world regarding the death at their consulate in Turkey so that the multi billion dollar trade in arms can continue unabated. Some poor sap will be the patsy who gets returned to The Kingdom never to be heard of again, which doesn’t mean he’s for ‘the chop’ (forgive the pun).
Allow me to hazard a guess as to why all the caterwauling: its about monopoly and the distribution of largesse. In the past many ksa princes had a share in the oil pie and bought friend and favour and presses throughout the world. The kept a trickle flowing to compliant politicians in the key western nations they needed to implement their agenda of power and thuggery. Take Lindsay Graham for example and see his squealing today.
Well MBS just throttled the princes, took their wealth, and now only favours a few close to him. This has immense global implications for the neighboring states as well as the top end of the political cabal. MBS seems to have a great relationship with Trump and Kushner and Netanyahoo. Perhaps he has a friend in Boris and Theresa too? But even the lesser kleptocrats will be wailing:- all those luxury yachts and their hangers on stalled in ports throughout the planet, all those holidays in France foregone. Sigh quel dommage.
So the world has changed, the money is not flowing, the election campaign in yankeeland is in full swing and now can’t be bought except if Trump likes you. Now that is a power shift and I suspect nErdogan has tied the knot for a favour or two. Not a good look and fraught with immense political blowback.
Of course it could be that Kashoggi had a late life damascene conversion. Found true love. Wanted to repent and live in truth. That the CIA tipped off the incompetent (they really are that mince) Saudis who then got caught red handed, literally, by Erdogan, who in turn has used it to escape pressure to keep fighting the Syrians, Russians and whoever else the Nato thugs want him to.
Whatever – the best is that we may have seen peak Saudi ! And their FUKUS banker overlords.
He was an enemy of MBS, of that faction which MBS had recently arrested and looted.
Their were rumours of their planning a coup.
That’d be enough, I’d say.
You can him here on Crosstalk criticising the pace of MBS’s reforms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vKG6nYRB3o
And here his murder is discussed by the two panelists appearing with him above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_sWLFC8oE
Susan Lindauer, CIA, went to jail for what she knew. That US government knew at least by April 2001, that planes would be hi-jacked and flown into the World Trade Center.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=203&v=oMcZx797cvs
“The problem here is of course that the SNP is accepting a UK-centric vision of the world. This is a fundamental error, a category mistake. Because Russia is in an antagonistic relationship with the UK does not mean Russia should or will have an antagonistic relationship to an Independent Scotland.”
It is not “UK-centric”, but the vision of the elite of Ancien Régime of the West. It is a shiboleth of “reponsible politician” to believe all that crap. Bourbon France before the Revolution was not the most misgovern state, but the legitimacy of power was based on not questioning the divine mandate of the kings that was attested by their power of healing certain diseases by touch. Now the moral superiority of “liberal democracy” has as frail factual foundation as the divine rights of the Bourbons. I have nothing against liberal democracy but when the policies are bolstered by witch hunting at home and supporting murderous fanatics abroad, it is time to recall famous answer of Gandhi “Western civilization? It would be an excellent idea!”. More precisely, the ideas are there, but the execution is not.
The story from Istanbul becomes even more gruesome as a search begins in a forest there.
FYI -from Campaign Against the Arms Trade
“Shadow World” – Film Showing with musician and activist, Lowkey, and author Andrew Feinstein
Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 7:30 PM
Sands Films, 82 Saint Marychurch Street, SE16 4HZ London
The Shadow World film provides unique insight into the global arms trade, a business that counts its profits in billions and its costs in human lives. Winner of the 2016 Edinburgh Film Festival, for Best Documentary Feature Film, it has been called “an uncompromising exposure of what is really behind the arms trade” (CineEurope).
https://crm.caat.org.uk/civicrm/mailing/view?reset=1&id=635
Last night a young man in the QT audience said he was a member of the Conservative party but he told Keir Starmer that he would now vote Labour.
This is about a disaffected Tory MP, Johnny Mercer who is one of the party’s golden boys having served in the Army in Afghanistan.
Brexit: I wouldn’t vote Conservative, admits Tory MP Johnny Mercer
October 19 2018, 12:01am,
Johnny Mercer, MP, described Theresa May’s government as a shit show PA Photo
A Conservative MP has said that he would not vote Tory, in a withering critique of Theresa May’s government.
Johnny Mercer, 37, who left the army in 2013 and was elected in Plymouth, Moor View in 2015, told House magazine that there was “absolutely no chance” he would run for parliament now. Asked how he would vote, he said: “Just being honest, I wouldn’t vote. Of course I wouldn’t, no.”
Theresa May’s government, he said, was a “shit show” and he would not join it if he were offered a job. He appeared to suggest that he was more comfortable with David Cameron’s leadership of the Conservative Party than Mrs May’s.
“There’s no doubt about it that my set of values and ethos, I was…paywall
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-i-wouldn-t-vote-conservative-admits-tory-mp-johnny-mercer-d9dqc9qgr
Goodness gracious!
First the MSM tries to wreck the Labour Party with the anti-Semitism row. Now it tries to wreck the Conservative Party over Brexit. What are they up to? Is it an attempt to revive the Liberal Democrats, or some Blair-inspired alliance, and overturn Brexit?
It’s just flexing of muscles, for the sake of it, and for exercise. Practising dominance because doing so is instinctual. The media are powers in their own right, so weakening any other power is to their advantage. Same old same old; divide and conquer, set the factions against each other, compete.
There is no plan, no grand, overarching conspiracy, no one at the helm at all. That’s the problem. Our underlying animal nature is the motivator, but our egos constantly strive to keep that secret, even from ourselves.
Mercer is doing OK for himself. In addition to his MP’s salary of £77,379, he is in receipt of £85,000 pa from the Crucial Academy Ltd, whose address given as Canary Wharf although the four companies in the Group are registered to a Brighton address.
‘From 14 Sept 2018 until further notice, Non-executive Director of Crucial Academy Ltd,
One Canada Square, Canary Wharf, London E14 5AB, for which I will receive £85,000 per annum.
Hours: 20 hrs a month. (Registered 18 September 2018.’
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25367/johnny_mercer/plymouth%2C_moor_view#register
Crucial Group is a professional information technology and services company providing cyber security & GDPR consulting, cyber security training at our state-of-the-art academy and global recruitment in the advanced technology markets.
https://www.crucialgroup.co.uk/
and for service leavers, training in cyber security. MoD partnership too.
Crucial Academy’s security courses are turning ex-commandos into cyber warriors
http://www.itpro.co.uk/business-strategy/careers-training/31956/crucial-academys-security-courses-are-turning-ex-commandos
He has also visited Bahrain and was funded by the Bahrain Embassy to attend the opening of the UK base there.
In addition, he is a member of Conservative Friends of Israel and visited Israel under their auspices in 2016, a year after he was elected.
He employs his wife as his Principal Secretary (jolly good) suggesting that there is a team of secretaries. ie We pay her salary too. They are not stupid.
____
This morning he has received the Boris Johnson seal of approval. ‘we need more like him, etc’.
What on earth would you do all day without google to keep you company?
Will Craig now argue that Khashoggi’s murderes were innocent tourists, as he did about the Salisbury duo? At present it is schizophreniac: the Western narrative is not to be trusted when it maligns Russia. but it suddenly becomes trustworthy when it hits at the Saudis. I used to consider Craig a seasoned political analyst and am getting bitterly disappointed that his analyses have lately become so tendentious.
With respect, what exactly is the “western narrative”?
I’ve not heard one yet, and when did Craig express complete approbation of this supposed narrative?
False equivalence of a type I see too often. If one presents evidence that hurts an avowed enemy, this is obviously less to be trusted then if one presents evidence that hurts an avowed friend, no? Because the West lies does not mean they always lie. They lie when it suits their purpose. They tell the truth when it suits their purpose. They are not compulsive liars, they only lie when it is beneficial.
Nothing schizophrenic about it. The narrative about Khashoggi is not clearly full of holes. Bitter disappointment should be reserved for something worthy of it.
I don’t even think they have even confirmed whether he is alive or dead. Turkey as Russia’s newest ally certainly has the motive to have a go at the Saudi’s, their continuous funding of the PKK Kurdish terrorists gives them the motive. Meanwhile Khashoggi is in a hotel in Riyadh!
@ James Aimes October 19, 2018 at 12:13
FFS, the Saudis have admitted he was murdered in the Embassy in Turkey.
Yes James, in a hotel in Riyadh. Hanging on by his fingernails.
Thank you kashmiri and now could we have your thoughts on the various subjects in discussion here. How do you feel about Saudis bombing school kids or Israeli army target shooting civilians in Palestine of the Scotts succession or perhaps the injuries inflicted on Khashoggi? Any advice there for us?
Thanks Craig for another lively, if divergent, post.
For anyone who is interested in the City of London’s money laundering and is in striking distance of Reading, there is a talk at Reading International Solidarity Centre on Thurs 25th Oct, where solidarity campaigners will be discussing the significant victory Vedanta’s de-listing from the London Stock Exchange this year, as well as the pivotal role of the City of London in money laundering for criminal companies.
http://w3.risc.org.uk/events/risc/vedantas-billions
See full page story on Vedanta’s de-listing in Financial Times yesterday: https://www.ft.com/content/eb3ede2e-cd43-11e8-9fe5-24ad351828ab
The possibility of a second Scottish independence referendum raises the question of how to define the electorate.
Firstly, since the issue involves the dissolution of a Union, should the entire Union electorate be entitled to vote? Or only the electorate of that part of the Union which seeks dissolution, ie the Scottish electorate?
If the latter, then how is the Scottish electorate to be defined/identified?
Should it be all those resident in Scotland at a certain date – ie, including people not born in Scotland? Should non-British residents have the vote?
Or should the qualification be that of having been born in Scotland? In that case, should those born in Scotland but living elsewhere in the UK (and perhaps even further afield?) also be allowed to vote?
You point is irrelevant, a precedance has been set in the 2014 franchise. Scottish residents over the age of 16 eitherUK, EU or Commonwealth citizens.
Not irrelevant at all. Because the 2014 referendum was done in one way does not mean that a future referendum has to be done in the same way. You might as well argue that the 2014 referendum should have been done in the same way as the previous devolution referendum. Referendums are sui generis in the UK system of governance.
‘Charles’ is irrelevant.
Nice try but no debate. The precedent was set in 2014. All people residing in Scotland get to vote. If you were interested, Wings over Scotland commissioned some England only poling earlier this year and the majority of folk in England would be perfectly content to see us fuck off. It seems the Brit Nat love bombing in 2014 was limited to aristocratic, astroturf outfits worried about their country estates being appropriated by the peasants.
“If you were interested, Wings over Scotland commissioned some England only poling earlier this year and the majority of folk in England would be perfectly content to see us fuck off.”
In which case you would have nothing to fear if the electorate were to consist of the entire Union electorate, would you.
Well Charles we can do a vox populi of the Unions electorate by having a General Election.
Then all our pet theories can be judged against reality.
Similar to the reality of Brexit.
Problem is that this exercise is fraught with danger.
The danger being a Corbyn led Labour government.
To be fair even if this occurred it may not solve the Brexit problems.
Choices choices eh?
@ Ken
“Well Charles we can do a vox populi of the Unions electorate by having a General Election.”
Yes, that would certainly be an option. Do you mean for both Brexit and Scottish independence? (see below)
“Then all our pet theories can be judged against reality.”
Perhaps (slight correction : it’s not a matter of pet theories but of matters of major constitutional and political importance). The problem with that is that these two matters – which perhaps require discrete treatment – would form part of, and risk getting swamped in, an vast ensemble of election promises and manifesto commitments. That said, it would have the merit of forcing both major parties, Conservatives and Labour – and indeed the SNP – to come clean on exactly where they stand re both Brexit and Scottish independence. Judging by Conservative divisions (on the EU), the studied ambiguity of Labour (on both questions), that might be a major and perhaps impossible undertaking.
@ Ken
When I wrote “and indeed the SNP “, I meant to include that the SNP would have to clarify where it stood on the question of possible EU membership for an independent Scotland (matters such as the single currency, a central bank/use of the GBP, Schengen, the CAP and fishing and so on)
By the way, there was no “try” (whatever you mean by that); the questions are entirely legitimate.
Re “the majority of folk in England would be perfectly content to see us fuck off.”
Well, I wouldn’t have put it quite like that but I do think the people of any clearly defined community, as in Scotland or Catalonia, should have the right to govern themselves if that is what they want. I think that if a set of rules for a referendum have been set then they should not be changed midway, if it looks like it might alter the outcome. It would not be regarded as fair.
For a similar reason in a case where a significant constitutional alteration is proposed– such as a vote to leave the EU – the threshold should have been higher, but it is too late to alter that now.
@ Pete
” I think that if a set of rules for a referendum have been set then they should not be changed midway”
That disregards the fact that unlike general elections, for example, there are no rules applicable to referendums. It can be argued that each referendum is sui generis even if they might be thematically linked. Hence one cannot talk about a “midway”, certainly not for the independence referendum. Or if you insist, then you would have to justify how come the independence referendum followed a different set of rules from the previous devolution referendum.
Re Charles @ 16.36
Yes, maybe, but if an arrangement looks dishonest to the electorate then it will be difficult to sell. But that’s just my opinion, I am frequently wrong in these matters.
Sorry, that makes no sense. Saudi is the second biggest investor in Erdogan’s Turkey, while Russian-Saudi relations are stronger than they have ever been.
If Khashoggi is alive and well somewhere, all the Saudis had to do was show CCTV of him exiting the embassy, immediately returning BdS to admirable young reformer status in western establishment eyes.
Response to “George Bestest”/”James Aimes” or whoever it is
THe Saudi’s almost single handedly arm the PKK terrorists.
Any theories on why even the cornered Saudis themselves have not alleged Turkish responsibility? Or why they have withheld footage of Khassoghi in or leaving the embassy.
Its a false flag operation by the Turks.
Thanks for that link, Hatudey, it was obvious to me that the mujahedin inside the man, and I suspect the greatest link between the western construct of a war on terror and the actual terrorists, would eventually be revealed.
Having written a dissettation of the war on terror in 2001, the then fighter for the causes of a political islam introduced via Pakistani madrassas had indeed close links with salafist and Wahabis in his Saudi Arabia,were many reveered him for his actions with Al Quaeda.
The wests accelerated outrage and attentative disdain at this blatant murder in a diplomatic abode, using him to put MBS, dictator of his country, holder of many lucrative assets in the world some might want to wrestle of him, into his place before his boots get too big.
Another very possible reason could be that Kahaashogi was a western/ industrial military mole, in with everyone at home, who had been their link to Al Quaeda all along, outwardly the moderate journalist who happened to be in with the wrong prince.
Will the west try and exchange/dispose/ depose and humiliate MBS?
Thats to be seen,I dont think we know half of the story yet.
and into the garden I go, too nice out there, what a glorious autumn.
Sorry Hatuey, fat finger syndrome…..
Yes Nevermind. Beautiful day and the colours are amazing too. Still a few bees around and the odd butterfly. Not many birds though. ‘Asian’ hornets have arrived in Surrey with a warning that they sting!
The US Seventh Fleet is not doing too well.
Helicopter of most disastrous Seventh Fleet crashes aboard USS ‘Ronald Reagan’ in Philippine Sea
19 Oct, 2018 06:23
‘This is the second incident involving helicopters to hit the US Navy this month. Earlier, two HH-60H Seahawks crashed into each other while taxiing at Kadena Air Force Base in Japan. No one was injured in the collision.
The nuclear-powered USS ‘Ronald Reagan’ is part of the US Seventh Fleet, operating in the west Pacific. It is based in Yokosuka, Japan.
The Seventh Fleet had gained a reputation as one of the most disaster-prone Navy units. Last year, it suffered at least seven major incidents, which resulted in 20 fatalities.’
/..
https://www.rt.com/news/441696-navy-helicopter-crashes-reagan/
The Seventh Fleet is a numbered fleet (a military formation) of the United States Navy. It is headquartered at U.S. Fleet Activities Yokosuka, in Yokosuka, Japan, with some units based in Japan and South Korea. It is part of the United States Pacific Fleet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seventh_Fleet
“Helicopter of most disastrous Seventh Fleet crashes aboard USS ‘Ronald Reagan’ in Philippine Sea”
The USS Ronald Reagan? Wasn’t that the carrier which our retired US navy officer and polymath contributor Lysias used to tell us was holed up in San Francisco, fatally crippled by radioactivity or something of the kind? If it’s now in the Philippine Sea it’s evidently over its troubles.
Yes it was:
– “On 11 March 2011, Ronald Reagan was […] redirected towards Japan to provide support after the massive 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. […] On 13 March 2011, the ship measured 0.6 mR/hr direct gamma shine from clouds 130 miles from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. Members of the crew blamed their cancers on the event. On 14 March 2011, the ship was forced to relocate to avoid a radioactive plume from the Fukushima I nuclear accidents which had contaminated 17 crew members of three helicopter crews.
– On 10 January 2012, Ronald Reagan’s official home port was changed to Bremerton, Washington, where she stayed for a little over a year until returning to her home port of San Diego on 21 March 2013”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ronald_Reagan#2011
Out of action for a year. Puget Sound Naval Ship Yard is where they recycle nuclear powered ships and submarines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_Naval_Shipyard_and_Intermediate_Maintenance_Facility#Ship-Submarine_Recycling_Program
OT – Groaniad censorship.
Steve Bell’s ‘if’ strip from yesterday AND the editorial cartoon wasn’t put on the website. Just taking the piss out of McVey and her UC bollox. Why?
Often his work is put up in low resolution.
Available at his own site http://www.belltoons.co.uk/hotoffpress
The pathetic censorship by La Viner, and the zio/spooky crowd at Kingspalace is hillarious.
I imagine that everytime Bell turns up in her office she ends up involuntarily twitching, gurning, blinking, foaming and generally losing it – like inspector Clouseaus poor boss!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IJz-Ngs5phY
Lol
Deeply trusted, highly respected figure brought in to spearhead corporate-centrist fightback
Facebook has hired Nick Clegg, the former UK deputy prime minister, as its head of global affairs and communications.
‘Clegg, 51, has been hired as Facebook struggles to cope with mounting political pressure over issues including fake news, data protection and the threat of government regulation.’
Donald Trump has praised a violent attack by Republican congressman Greg Gianforte on Guardian political correspondent Ben Jacobs. Trump has got “I’m going to go too far” written all over him.
Who set up the Jamal Khashoggi embassy visit? Everyone knows that in Saudi Arabia if you criticise the king and his regime they kill you. He needed documents to certify his divorce? That’s a weak part of the story. I haven’t followed the details of this case. Cui bono? Who will get the weapons contracts if the US and Britain don’t?
@N-
Two- jag Prescott’s violent attack on a protestor at Rhyl in the 2001 election caused only a brief stir
Hardly a “violent attack”. He swung a punch (quite a good one) at a violent protester who chucked an egg at him from close range. That’s all.
Unlike Jacob Rees-Mogg when some fuck of a reporter harassed his young children on the doorstep of his house. It’s the difference between a gent and an oik.
Or perhaps it was just an oik from the general public and not a reporter. Peu importe!
The old anarchist had publicised his demo in advance. The Met Police will have been monitoring his activities and Rees-Mogg would have known time and place in advance. There are any number of instances of Rees-Mogg using his offspring as stage props in cultivating his public image as a quaint, eccentric toff but in an entirely unthreatening way.
Was Jacob’s nanny not in the vicinity to mop things up? She was by his side when he was campaigning in Scotland a few years back, which, on reflection, was a bit bizarre for a grown man.
Ian Bone isn’t a reporter and Jacob Rees-Mogg went back inside and then brought his children out. Both guys are skilled media operators. I wouldn’t say Bone harassed the children, and he certainly didn’t verbally abuse them, although his behaviour towards the little boy was close to the mark. If someone did harass someone else’s children I wouldn’t blame the parent for laying one on the harasser. What was Rees-Mogg doing, bringing his children out like that? He was playing to the gallery, and it’s not much of a defence to say they’ve got a right to be on the pavement and shouldn’t be scared to go out.
“What was Rees-Mogg doing, bringing his children out like that? He was playing to the gallery, and it’s not much of a defence to say they’ve got a right to be on the pavement and shouldn’t be scared to go out.”
I’m not quite sure what you mean by talking about “a defence” – what has Rees-Mogg got to defend himself against?
The bottom line is surely that his children have a right not to be harassed by some oik trying to make a political point. One might as well say “don’t go to certain parts of London because you might get mugged and if you do then it’d be your own fault” – that is perverse logic.
As for the nanny I’m not sure I see the relevance. If the man wants to spend part of his money on hiring a nanny then good luck to him.
“I’m not quite sure what you mean by talking about ‘a defence’ – what has Rees-Mogg got to defend himself against?”
I mean he shouldn’t have brought his children out when he knew there was going to be a verbal confrontation on the pavement (he was advised in advance of the demonstration, arrived home during it, and then came out with his children) and he may well have done it so that the press could get footage with a theme of “anarchist scares a family man’s children”. Rees-Mogg is no fool and he knows how to handle himself with the best of them. Some of the press reported that Bone had (verbally) abused his children, but that is not true. Whether he “harassed” them is a matter of opinion. His behaviour was close to the line but in my opinion didn’t cross it. Abusive behaviour and harassment are offences, so presumably the police are of the same opinion.
I agree that his children have a right not to be harassed for any reason, whether it’s by a working class man making a political point or by a filthy rich man who inherited wealth and the power to exploit people and who is making a cultural point.
“Cui bono? Who will get the weapons contracts if the US and Britain don’t?”
In the short term at least Iran benefits. As to the weapons contracts, an interesting issue. Who else churns out suffient weapons to meet SA’s insatiable appetite? No-one. No-one in NATO anyway. Perhaps it will have to do without until this business blows over (eg next week).
““Cui bono? Who will get the weapons contracts if the US and Britain don’t?”
Is that a serious question? If so, the answer is Russia, China, France and Germany.
Sure, it’s a serious question. I think this was set up because I can’t believe Jamal Khashoggi went to the consulate (not embassy as I wrongly called it) for the stated reason, to get a divorce certificate. Might he have been wired for sound? Now Mohammed bin Salman says he will restructure the intelligence services. Is that public relations or traitor-hunting or what? If the tape source was from within the regime there will be an almighty purge. Ahmed al-Assiri who has been sacked as head of Saudi intelligence was the contact man between MbS and the 2016 Trump campaign. Goodness knows where this leads.
Well MJ, there used to be an enormous store of weapons in Ukraine but they have been exhausted over the past three years in spectacular fashion. Good to see too but there were few plowshares as a result:(
No laughing.
Facebook hires Nick Clegg as top PR man
Facebook has hired former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg as the head of its global affairs and communications team.
https://news.sky.com/story/facebook-hires-nick-clegg-as-head-of-global-affairs-and-communications-11529470
I will never forgive him for his collusion with the Tories and for aiding the enactment of the Health and Social Care Act, 2012 which gave access to the NHS for the privateers. There was an LD minister in Lansley’s team – Paul Burstow and Danny Alexander was conniving with Letwin in the NHS demise.
How the Coalition carved up the NHS
In an exclusive extract from his new book published by the Institute for Government and The Kings Fund, Nicholas Timmins reveals the extraordinary details of a radical deal that left the health service in chaos and the government’s reputation in tatters
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-the-coalition-carved-up-the-nhs-7924971.html
Where are they now?
Lansley went to Bain & Co in the US. He is now ill with stage 3 bowel cancer. Regrets lack of bowel cancer screening facilities in UK.
Burstow – chair of a mental health trust and chair of Social Care Institute of Excellence and Prof of mental health policy, Univ of Birmingham.
Alexander – Given a knighthood. Now vice president of Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank AIIB Beijing. Didn’t he do well.
Letwin – still the puppet master at the Cabinet Office, running the show.
Re Nick Clegg
“I will never forgive him for his collusion with the Tories and for aiding the enactment of the Health and Social Care Act, 2012 ,,,etc ”
Well, that’s what happens when two or more parties get together in a coalition government.
Something all those contributors who keep going on about proportional representation in general elections would do well to bear in mind!
Sorry Charles.
What happens is Brexit.
Mrs Thatcher re-used a phrase by someone whom I can’t remember at the moment describing Referendums as a device of demagogues and dictators.
The problem with Democracy is that usually we end up voting against something instead of for something.
It is usually voting for the least worst – not the best.
For reasons of balance I have to say that other forms of voting are avaiable but the outcome will be the same.
I like Corbyn, but even if the Labour Party were voted in ( democratically ) then the losers ( do you see where I’m going with this )? will cry foul and obstruct the ” Will of the people. ” These ” people ” being the wrong sort of voting people.
By the way, all the suggestions re: Brexit may make things worse not better but I think May and Hammond are
remainers at heart and it’s Article 50 extension time. So, unless Corbyn is a version of Doris Stokes then it’s not surprising that he and others have so many different potential outcomes.
I could be dead by the time we get a solution – who knows?
Some people get lucky – why not me?
You see, whenone has ben brought up and conditioned.by an ancient FPTP electoral systwm, one fails to recognise the differences between proper coalition talks lasting up to 3 month, and speed dating as exhibited by the Conservative and LibDems for barely a week.
Cleggs main failure was the decision to abstain when it came to the referendum vote. If he had any idea of the impending complications that will mean for ordinary voters, Eu citizens and the economy, he would have resigned that weak and self serving coalition and forced a fresh election. The issues would have been coveted in the resulting campaigns.
Instead the Lib Dems were sidelined and reassigned to be subsumed between lunch and teatime.
what a poor show.
I rember Clegg being interviewed by Isobel Fraser of BBC Scotland, he treated her like a piece of shit.
Is Oliver Letwin a US citizen?
More likely of a well known country in the ME. LOL
Did you know that with Redwood, Letwin produced this pamphlet in Thatcher’s time in 1988? She had been meeting with Prof Enthoven propagandizing for private health care.
Revealed: the pamphlet underpinning Tory plans to privatise the NHS
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/06/03/revealed-the-pamphlet-underpinning-tory-plans-to-privatise-the-nhs/
‘The ideas for the opening of the NHS to the market drew heavily on a 1985 paper by a Stanford professor, Alain Enthoven.27 He was at the time consulting for Kaiser Permanente, which operates a non-profit HMO according to the ‘managed care’ model. This model was designed to control the tendency for medical services in the USA to profiteer at the expense of patients and their insurers. As profit-making companies are paid ‘fee for service’, the more tests and treatments they provide, the more money they receive, and so an HMO uses primary care doctors to monitor provision of referrals and limit their cost and quantity.
‘Opening the Oyster’
http://www.clinmed.rcpjournal.org/content/12/2/128.full?cited-by=yes&legid=clinmedicine;12/2/128
Worthy of note – Hunt and his teams have made recent multiple visits to Kaiser Permanente.
TORIES OUT! NOW!
Yes, I saw Letwin has a background in pushing for “reforming” the NHS. There was a former health secretary (Alan Milburn?) who was open about saying more ultrasound scans should be done not because they were needed but because a big contract had been signed with a machine supplier and who then got a position with that supplier. Sometimes the corruption is so out in the open. Barry Sheerman was chair of the Commons’ Education Select Committee at the same time as being a lobbyist for Policy Connect working for “education suppliers”. Like Kaiser Permanente’s HMO, Policy Connect are supposed to be “non-profit”. A “non-profit” lobbyist for private sector companies. Talk about taking the piss!
Letwin’s parents were both US citizens. I’m not sure of US law but doesn’t that give him US citizenship unless he’s renounced it?
A photo of the greedy Cleggs. She worked for DLA Piper, the international firm of solicitors of choice for the gangsters-in-charge.
Greedy pair shown in the photo on this piece with the sarcastic headline.. Salary c $25m!!
Liked at last… Sir Nick Clegg takes top job at Facebook
October 20 2018, 12:0
Sir Nick Clegg will move with his wife, Miriam González, and their children to California
Two years ago Sir Nick Clegg said: “I’m not especially bedazzled by Facebook. I find the messianic Californian new-worldy-touchy-feely culture of Facebook a little grating.” How times have changed. After intense “wooing” the former deputy prime minister has become its head of global affairs and communications.
Having fought for assurances of a hallowed place at the court of Mark Zuckerberg, he will receive a remuneration package probably worth millions. Sir Nick has not disclosed his new salary, but last year top executives received $25.2 million (£19.3 million).
Sir Nick met Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg at Facebook’s headquarters in California (another photo)
The company faces scrutiny over its content, its tax bill and how it handles users’ data. Sir Nick, a former European Commission trade negotiator, remains well-connected in Brussels, where regulators are taking a particular interest.
/..
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liked-at-last-sir-nick-clegg-takes-top-job-at-facebook-n2qvp326c
PS What will he actually be doing?
‘call me mike’ pompeo’s big smile on landing in riyad? chamberlain didn’t have that chutzpah.
Also EU is nowhere to be seen on this case. Amazing considering the frenzy over Novichok case…what a bunch of hypocrites!
Neither Turkey or Saudi Arabia are in Europe. Why on earth would they get involved in what is a simple missing person enquiry? Russia says the same…. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-putin/putin-says-cant-justify-spoiling-saudi-ties-over-khashoggi-affair-idUSKCN1MS28S
James
said they were hypocrites because they have no problem when saudis’ kill people.
So they should have no problem when citizens are killed within the EU? You seem to have a perverse logic there son.
I’m sorry but as there is absolutely no solid evidence that this guy Khashoggi could be alive and well.
You seem to be sucking in all the media hype over a missing person enquiry.
James
What is it that you dont understand? I havent even mentioned anything about “europe” nor “eu”.
Perhaps this will help you:
Skripal and Khashoggi: A Tale of Two Disappearances
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/10/17/skripal-and-khashoggi-tale-of-two-disappearances.html
Time to update your translation Software then, what came out of it was –
“Also EU is nowhere to be seen on this case. Amazing considering the frenzy over Novichok case…what a bunch of hypocrites!”
James
Yes in terms of being the same institution that went after Russia on Skripal’s!
Seriously what is that you dont understand?
Do you want west to support this murder? Keep silent about it?
Like Russia, Turkey is partly in Europe.
Jacques
“Also EU is nowhere to be seen on this case.”
Nonsense. You sound like one of the “the EU wants to ban curved bananas” brigade.
Did you hear our esteemed Foreign Secretary (latterly i/c of wrecking OUR NHS) on the matter? I am sure the Saudis are trembling in their slippers.
‘Jeremy Hunt today warned there would be “consequences” for ties between Britain and Saudi Arabia if as feared it turns out that exiled journalist Jamal Khashoggi was brutally murdered. He stressed that the suspected killing of Mr Khashoggi by a 15-man hit squad at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul would be “completely unacceptable” to the UK.
However, the Foreign Secretary also signalled that Britain’s response would be “considered” towards an ally in the battle against terrorism and with which it has multi-billion pound arms contracts.’
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/jeremy-hunt-warns-of-consequences-if-dissident-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-was-murdered-a3966071.html
He is a joke as is the content of his ‘statement’.
When he came back from Munich, Neville Chamberlain appeared with the king and queen on the balcony of Buckingham Palace. Maybe Pompeo could use Clarence House, in recognition of prince Charles’s associations with his Saudi counterpart, crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.
I couldn’t find a list of who is on the UK-Saudi Strategic Partnership Council (other than MbS and Theresa May) or of the senior figures in its secretariat.
Got to wonder how long it will be before Donald Trump says it’s “fake news” that anyone meant to harm Jamal Khashoggi in the consulate and that the other guys were simply defending themselves after Khashoggi got aggressive.
Why not rename Facebook to CIA?
Facebook Exhibits ‘War Room’ for Controlling Information Ahead of Midterm Elections
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/18/facebook-exhibits-war-room-for-controlling-information-ahead-of-midterm-elections/
See that Sir John Sawers, an expert on brutal murders because of all those that MI6 committed while he was ‘C’, is confirming the case against the Saudis over Khashoggi’s without mentioning the WH to keep it onside in his case.
Sawers is also scaremongering about Brexit. Apparently, Brexit will lead to more Novichok poisoning:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/19/brexit-may-summit-tory-brexiters-would-vote-down-extra-payments-to-eu-for-longer-transition-says-rees-mogg-politics-live
How to read John Sawers’s effort? Is it indication of an anti-Brexit presence at a senior level in MI6 or just one guy getting paid for saying something?
In the other corner stands Richard Dearlove, who wrote in his faintly comical open letter to Emmanuel Macron that “the United Kingdom has always been a European Power but has never felt the least connection with the European Continent – Napoleon and de Gaulle both understood this essential distinction.” (Is he suggesting NATO with its large majority of European members is just a US puppets’ club?) “(This distinction) explains the attitude of the United Kingdom towards its membership of the European Union. We have always followed a distinct policy, convinced of our own difference from the other member states. (…) Great Britain has never had a long Continental alliance. France should not therefore be surprised that a significant majority of British citizens has chosen to leave the European Union.” (How come they didn’t do it in 1975?)
What’s the point of this talking down to Macron, coming from the man who was MI6’s Director of Operations at the time of the Princess Diana car crash in Paris?
On the matter of Kashoggi: there is an elephant in the room.
A dancing elephant. A dancing Israeli elephant.
So it is okay to write about the evil misdeeds and the arms deals, even Yemen.
As long as they/we don’t go you know where.
Nothing to see, move on!
Yemen cholera outbreak accelerates to 10,000+ cases per week ..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-cholera/yemen-cholera-outbreak-accelerates-to-10000-cases-per-week-who-idUSKCN1MC23J
@Mishko – OK what’s the I__aeli angle then? Did they intercept or otherwise get hold of the audio tape? The shakeup in a major Saudi intelligence agency may be good news for I__ael. The first place I’d look would be the arms deals.
Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder takes legal action against Ecuador
8 minutes ago
Julian Assange is to launch legal action against the government of Ecuador, accusing it of violating his “fundamental rights and freedoms”.
The Wikileaks co-founder has lived in its UK embassy since 2012 after seeking asylum to avoid extradition to Sweden over a rape claim – later dropped.
He was given a set of house rules by the London embassy this week, including taking better care of his cat.
In a memo, it threatened to confiscate the pet if he did not look after it.
Profile: Julian Assange
Timeline: Julian Assange saga
Assange given feline ultimatum by Ecuador
WikiLeaks lawyer Baltasar Garzon is in Ecuador to launch the case, which the Press Association reports is expected to be heard in court next week.
Wikileaks said the country’s government had threatened to remove the protection Mr Assange has had since being granted political asylum.
It added that his access to the outside world had been “summarily cut off.”
/..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45915017
Can the cat be arrested if it goes outside the embassy?
“Julian Assange is to launch legal action against the government of Ecuador, accusing it of violating his “fundamental rights and freedoms”.
Unbelievable if true. What chutzpah, what a sense of entitlement! The man is really his own worst enemy.
Hasn’t there been a change of government since Assange took asylum?
A change of Ecuadorian government.
Yes. What’s that got to do with Julian’s action? He is apparently suing the govt that gives him refuge. Not very clever in my opinion.
That’s why I said (and have said before) that the man seems to have a mega sense of entitlement. Or perhaps he’s never really grown up.
Six years is a long time to be in the embassy without leaving and doing what normal people do, it must be taking its toll on Assange.
Maybe the Ecuadorian officials are attempting to make life even more uncomfortable for him, in the hope that it will break the stand off and he (Assange) will leave the embassy.
Of course it’s absolutely disgraceful that Assange cannot leave the embassy without the threat of apprehension by the police. It’s almost certain if he did leave he’d eventually wind up in the hands of interrogators, his fate from there on in would be one of uncertainty.
A UN Working group in 2016, found that Julian Assange term in Ecuadorian embassy amounted to arbitrary detention. Assange tried to have the British warrant for his arrest overturned, the courts denied his attempt.
However, if Assange could obtain a cast iron guarantee that, after he faced judgement in the UK for refusing to surrender to bail, that he wouldn’t be extradited to god knows where at the behest of America, of which the British refuse to give such a guarantee, in my opinion I think he’d leave the embassy.
Daily many people pass by the embassy, most will claim to be for human rights in one way or another, and some will have read Wikileaks articles and thought to themselves, I never knew that, but I do now, what a useful site to add to my favourites. Yet they probably don’t stop to think of the terrible situation the guy who brought them the info in the first place is in.
Assange and others like him are risking their lives, to bring you information of the activities of your government. Activities that you might find henious.
Well said RoS.
The Democrats seem to be very quiet on the Khashoggi murder.
Resistance my arse.
Murder? What murder? You seem to be making assumptions based on media hype. Sheeple like you need to look at the facts.
james seems to believe there havent been a murder at all!
And I believe your grammar aren’t that good.
Charles, you’ve been told about throwing stones from your glass house a million times (ok, I’m exaggerating a bit). Behave.
@ Tony
I try, I do try, but you know, patience has its limits 🙂
Now an article in guardian with John Sawers opinion where he goes as far as stating that if the prince killed Khashoggi , the prince believed he had White House approval ….
Dirty, very dangerous games are being played here . I can’t stand the Saudi regime but there is something just not right in all this story and it’s more than changing the prince in power , looks like some domestic political interference is intended as well in the USA .
Meanwhile , Twitter is suspending accounts that are posting about Khashoggi Muslim brotherhood and bin laden sympathies .
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/19/crown-prince-mohammed-jamal-khashoggi-killing-mi6-sir-john-sawers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Yes just read that, the British government are so concerned over Khashoggi, that Liam Fox has pulled out the Riyadh investment conference, to be held next week.
However, the British government aren’t really that concerned.
“The UK Foreign Office confirmed that the UK trade commissioner for the Middle East, Simon Penney, and the UK ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Simon Collis, would both attend the controversial Riyadh investment conference next week. A host of politicians, bankers, and media chiefs have withdrawn from the event.”
By the amount of media coverage that Khashoggi’s disappearance has generated, it could be more than likely he was an asset. The Saudi’s butcher people every day and the media doesn’t bat an eyelid.
Still Old Blighty doesn’t miss a chance to sell to the Saudi’s no matter who disappears.
Amazing, but show what a fake hypocrite reaction UK/EU made on Russia/Skripals’. I reckon Russia see this too..
More relevant would be even Gordon Corera’s official discussion of Sir John Sawers in The Art of Betrayal: The Secret History of MI6 where he is seen as a risk-taking James Bond who even his colleagues didn’t trust.
Theresa May renewed the Third Direction just last year.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-unveils-oversight-directive-criminal-activities-intelligence-agencies-2055320832
The directives talk about criminal acts to be excused, like stealing something or joining a proscribed group, nothing about zipping up a poisoned agent in a carryall to die or throwing a hacker/leaker down the steps of an Oxford college or having a colleague smoother a nosey amateur detective.
Actually it gave British agents the right to kill on British soil, or at the very least collude to have people killed such as Pat Finucane.
Far from the sophisticated gadgets Bond uses to kill “bad guys” in the fantasy movies, Mr Finucane was slaughtered in fromt of his wife and children in their home whilst eating dinner.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Finucane
I see , so Fox really just discreetly delegated.
Yes , I’ve seen a post by Pepe Escobar stating that his sources in SA assured him Khashoggi was CIA . I’m not sure how reliable his sources are re Middle East but he’s a good journalist regarding Brazil affairs .
It’s Liam Fox I feel sorry for. A missed opportunity for him and Steve Mnuchin to have a couples night with their regular Scottish traveling companions, Adam Werritty and Treasury Barbie Louise Linton.
If its proven that Saudi Arabia did kill Khashoggi, then keeping in line with the likes of Syria, Venezuela and Iran. The Great Satan (America) must call out for severe sanctions against the dictator state.
Indeed, the US was quick to enter Libya, Syria and Iraq, on false intel, so mounting a military escapade into Saudi Arabia shouldn’t be off the cards. Afterall, we’d be bringing democracy and freedom to the suppressed masses, isn’t that what we say prior to razing a country to the ground and stripping its assets?
Saudi Arabia has abundant oil reserves, so I see no reason why Trump shouldn’t unleash the F-35’s. Of course the Saudi’s own swathes of America, and numerous businesses too boot, I suppose Trump could seize them for the nation as well, in a similar fashion to King Philip IV, who had the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar burned at the stake, Jacque de Molay, in Paris, which saw the kings debts to him go up in smoke as well.
Incidently Philip IV also had Geoffroi de Charny burned at the stake beside Molay. Charny, was the first recorded owner of the Shroud of Turin.
Come on Craig Murray, get your head into gear. We want to know what you think about recent events. I have no idea what is happenning to either of you or your friend Julian Assange, but I wish you both well. I think you are both gentlemen.
I can however recommend a couple of blog posts wriiten over the last 24 hours or so where I very rarely post anything, though I read these bloggers all the time. They both published my comments. I thought blimey. On of them is dead posh, and its not John Ward, though he is catching on, which ain’t bad, cos he’s even older than me. He’s nearly old enough to be your Dad.
No 1 “Jamal Khashoggi: or why you don’t trust the MSM even if they say what you want to hear” by Catte
https://off-guardian.org/2018/10/18/jamal-khashoggi-or-why-you-dont-trust-the-msm-even-if-they-say-what-you-want-to-hear/
No 2 “The collision of neuroscience and political science
ANALYSIS: How the science of brains is giving a better & better explanation of the chaos in our cultures” by John Ward
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2018/10/19/analysis-how-the-science-of-brains-is-giving-a-better-better-explanation-of-the-chaos-in-our-cultures/
Thank You,
Tony
Thanks Tony, that Off Guardian article has just dragged my focus back into clarity after being subjected to the onslaught by the msm.