I have only ever been able to discern two underlying motivations in Theresa May’s career; a love of office and a hatred of immigrants. It is possible to love office without loving power; loving power means you want to do something with it, whereas loving office is just for prestige and personal economic opportunity. I do not imagine May’s hatred of immigrants is driven by actual racism, easy though it is to read that into her hostile environment, go home van, end free movement, career. It is rather that the incredibly successful Tory narrative remains the false attribution of working class poverty to immigration, rather than its actual cause, massive inequality and an entire legal structure and system of government geared to promoting the interests of the super wealthy.
I do not understand the notion that we have a constitutional crisis. The solution seems self-evident. England and Wales voted to leave the EU, by a large margin if you take those two countries, which share a legal system, alone. Let them leave the EU. Scotland voted by a still larger majority to remain in the EU. Let it become Independent, remain in the EU, and not need to thwart the will of the English and Welsh to leave. And let Ireland forget its bigots and be a united country.
Constitutional crisis over. Indeed, that there is no other viable solution, and the UK is no longer a viable political unit, I can guarantee you will be universally recognised by the year 2030 as having been a self-evident truth. The actual dissolution of the UK will come ten years before that.
The BBC TV News was hyping the success of the British economy under Theresa May a couple of days ago on the basis of figures from the Office of National Statistics showing that the economic inactivity rate had fallen to 21%, the lowest since records began. But that needs to be considered alongside the fact that purchasing power of average wages is still below where it was ten years ago, and a huge swathe of the population is in insecure, part time and low paid employment.
The decline of leisure is not something to be celebrated. The shrinking of the “economically inactive” figure to 21% means that many pensioners are forced to keep on working because they cannot make ends meet on the developed world’s most miserly pensions, that parents of young children are forced both to stay in jobs rather than provide all the love, protection and affection they may wish. Every time Theresa May is questioned on the heartless fiasco of universal credit, she states its aim is to “get people back into work”, by which she means choose between starvation and vicious drudgery; with no rights, no prospects and low paid hours handed down as a favour.
Whether or not May stays as head of the Tory government, or is replaced by some other heartless Tory bastard, I really do not care. I have not been blogging much recently, in sheer exasperation at the enormity of societal injustice and the utter irrelevance of the available political system. But I guess we have to get back to chipping away at the marble facade of power with our tiny social media picks. One day it will fall.
“The solution seems self-evident”.
Only, I submit, to those whose sincere emotional wishes override their knowledge of – and respect for – the law.
“England and Wales voted to leave the EU, by a large margin if you take those two countries, which share a legal system, alone. Let them leave the EU. Scotland voted by a still larger majority to remain in the EU. Let it become Independent, remain in the EU, and not need to thwart the will of the English and Welsh to leave”.
But England, Wales and Scotland are not separate nations. The referendum determined the wishes of ALL the citizens of the UK. (Unlike, may I add, the referendum about Scottish independence, which denied pure-blooded Scots like me the right to vote just because we live outside Scotland at the moment). So it is quite irrelevant what the balance of voting was in Wales or Scotland.
“And let Ireland forget its bigots and be a united country”.
What a delightfully colonialist sentiment. So you feel that the people of Northern Ireland, unlike the people of Scotland – or for that matter the people of Crimea – do not deserve to determine their own fate.
“Bigots”, eh? None so bigoted as those who pride themselves on being unbigoted.
“The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican”.
‘pure-blooded Scots like me’
– with a phrase like that you have a cheek to call others bigots. Tell me, when you decide to re-decorate your house do you call the previous occupants to ask what colour to paint the walls ? You no longer live in Scotland, you don’t contribute so you don’t vote.
‘or for that matter the people of Crimea – do not deserve to determine their own fate.’
-they held a referendum in 2014 in which they decided to align with Russia.
‘The referendum determined the wishes of ALL the citizens of the UK.’
– ok , so presumably there should be no different deal for N.Ireland then, or a deal for bankers and financiers for ‘easy access’ to continue cross border working practices, or any other kind of recognition that identifies groups and sectors as ‘special needs’. We should all have the same deal and no-one gets any special preference ?
@tartanfever
“‘pure-blooded Scots like me’
“– with a phrase like that you have a cheek to call others bigots”.
Why does calling myself a pure-blooded Scot make me a bigot? Would it sound better if I wrote “I am descended from Scots parents for at least five generations”?
“Tell me, when you decide to re-decorate your house do you call the previous occupants to ask what colour to paint the walls ? You no longer live in Scotland, you don’t contribute so you don’t vote”.
I find that passage staggering. If I understand you rightly, you are saying that the only genuine citizens of a nation are those who live there at a given moment. So when Craig was UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, he had no rights as a British citizen? And no doubt you believe that if thousands of people come to Scotland from the ends of the earth, they are Scots as soon as they leave the airport – until they go on holiday, when their citizenship vanishes just as suddenly?
That is a truly hypermodern view of the world.
Your citizenship or your nationality has nothing to do with your blood, unless you are a member of the far right, and hold biologically racist views.
Ian, I’m sorry, but really, how does calling oneself a pure-blooded Scott makes him racist? Racists support ideas that one ‘blood’ is better then ‘other blood’.
What I personally see in Tom Welsh’s words is: his male and female ancestors were Scotts, apparently several generations. It implies that Tom knows language, history, mythology, traditions etc. of Scotland, aware of both male and female ‘scottish’ perspectives. Identifies himself as Scott, more, his ancestors identified themselves as Scott also. And, most probably Tom has family and friendly ties in Scotland.
How on Earth it makes him ‘a member of the far right, and hold biologically racist views’?
Incomprehensible and unexpected conclusion.
No, I am just pointing out the consequences of that kind of language, and who it is associated with – see blood and soil phraseology. If he means it figuratively, as I presume, then it is just a bad choice of words. Also, you do not need to be the descendant of several generations of Scots to be Scottish. You have to be careful in this field, that’s all I am saying. Culture is one thing, nationality is another.
Thank you, Ian, I understand.
We had had conversation on similar topic under the previous Craig’s article. I see different understanding of ‘nationality’.
In my country it is close to ‘etnicity’ and serves to understand person’s lifestyle.
In the West it is close to ‘citizenship’ and serves to understand person’s loyalty.
If I’m wrong please correct my mistake.
You tell him Tam. Hypermodernism went oot wi the dark ages.
“Tell me, when you decide to re-decorate your house do you call the previous occupants to ask what colour to paint the walls ? You no longer live in Scotland, you don’t contribute so you don’t vote”.
Depends on terms of lease
“pure-blooded Scots”
There’s no such thing unless you exclude cholesterol and alcohol.
The law is not set in stone. The law is an instrument designed to fashion a cohesive society. If it does not do that, the law requires to evolve and change. Our minds should operate the same way
Principles of Common Law ARE set in stone which is why EQUITY exists in administration of STATUTE
I, as a Scot living outside Scotland accepted that only those actually choosing to live in Scotland should be allowed to vote. The matter of the referendum was so important to me that I actually moved back to Scotland to vote. But then, I voted yes. Somehow I don’t think you would have.
It was the same franchise as the Scottish Parliamentary elections remember.
As a Briton living outside the UK I live with the consequences of a Referendum Vote in which I had no part, yet it changes everything in terms of legal structures and how I conduct my life and business inside the EU
Well, it seems that some of you at least believe that citizenship of a country depends purely on residence. Just as football clubs hire players from all over the world, while deceptively retaining local place names as part of their titles.
No wonder you like the EU, in that case. But I think that most Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Indian… well, in fact the people of most countries would disagree with you and find your belief weird and unnatural.
I’d like to ask Craig two questions (assuming E&W exit the EU and Scotland remains inside the EU with independence from E&W)
1 Does he accept that there will have to be a hard border between E&W and Scotland?
2 What currency an independent Scotland would use
a its own
b sterling
c the euro
d other
If the answer is anything but a) then Scotland can kiss goodbye to any notion of economic independence.
We will have a SCOTTISH currency, an oil currency, the bout of the pound sterling.ottom will fall
We will have a SCOTTISH currency, an oil currency, the value of the of the pound sterling will fall.
Oil Currency ????? Like the Saudi Riyal or Russian Rouble or Iraqi Dinar or Iranian Rial ?
No, more like the Venezuelan Bolivar.
Bill
Another question is:
Will an independent Scotland remain or leave NATO, and what are the consequences in either case to the very strategic NATO base of Faslane?
Faslane gets the Cyprus treatment and becomes a Sovereign base open to the US Navy
I worry that the Pound will then be in such a precarious state that the Bank of England will be politely requesting the Scots to continue using it.
Margaret Thatcher had the Pound at $1 = £1 in 1985
http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-graph-zoom.php?C1=GBP&C2=USD&A=1&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1979&DD2=12&MM2=12&YYYY2=1990&LARGE=2&LANG=en&VAR=0&MM1M=0&MM3M=0&MM1Y=0&LOG=&TR=ON
By advancing that argument you accept then that Scotland doesn’t have economic independence now then.
We will have wherever currency we choose to. My personal preference is our own currency, but it is likely to become very hard, very soon, and that provides its own problems to deal with.
You can always make your currency hard through high interest rates, low public spending and high taxation. I recommend ALL three policies to the Devolved Scottish Assembly in 2019
As always an interesting slant on English government. Showing them for the Tory nasty party yet again.
Harry which it most certainly is – a bunch of corrupt, incompetent, boorish, arrogant and thieving bunch of public school boys who don’t give a damn about this country – only protecting their own wealth and increasing that of their buddies. Sod everybody else – after all, we are only the plebs who don’t deserve any consideration by this bunch of bufoons other than to be made poorer still. I guess you are probably one of them.
a bunch of corrupt, incompetent, boorish, arrogant and thieving bunch of public school boys
Enough material there for a psychologist…………clearly you feel better now after that ejaculation
“clearly you feel better now after that ejaculation”
Doesn’t everyone?
Paul, Not only do I but the truth always hurts some people. It is exactly what they are and to call them by any other name is not appropriate.
Well, we’ve had no governance for years now – can we have govexit please?
Shouldn’t that neologism be specifically reserved to describe the gruesome future demise of the gurning little lickspittle at the hands of a deranged and disgruntled ex-squaddie in a dark alley near Deepcut?
National Debt – 500b to 1750b numbers proof, dollar exchange rate as appropriate. https://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
Debt is not problem at all and can be a great advantage in a crash – just make sure your debt it astronomical
What many people do not understand is that debt is one of the main instruments of capitalism. One of the largest debtors is the US but that does not prevent it lording over the rest of the world both economically and militarily.
Horse before cart there. The fact that the US military dominate many areas of the world rich in natural resources, as well as having much of the globes trade conducted in their currency, as a direct consequence of military dominance post WW2 is why they can run such a huge amount of debt; the debt is “underwritten” by future demand for trillions of dollars worth of oil still in the ground. This is why the US destroys any country that attempts to engage in the non-dollar trade of oil.
The petro$ monopoly is over. China/India/Russia/Venezuela are already using their own pricing.
US national debt like all fiat currency debt is not limited by oil but only by the governments spend/tax policy. The govt ‘debt’ is the private savings in it’s economy.
SA, good comment. But I spy China and Russia stepping up to the mark slowly but surely and that is beginning to have an influence on the USA stock market and the ol’ greenback.
US Stockmarket is owned by Central Banks in UK, Switzerland, Japan, China and through shells. The Fed has funded the Portfolio positions of most Fund Managers through OMO
GDR collapsed like Poland because it could not repay the loans it had incurred to prop up Socialism.
GDR was bankrupt in 1972 but saved by OPEC until 1980 when West Germany gave huge Swing Credits to prop up the GDR
Re accelerating Global Debt Clock
Thanks for that, I have just made it my favourite web page.
Hartlepool, Southend-on-Sea and Dundee are among the six areas in the United Kingdom where life expectancy at birth has significantly decreased, statistics indicate.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17293607.life-expectancy-in-hartlepool-falls/
I should think life it too good in France, either.
Although your last sentence is incomprehensible, life expectancy is higher in France than in UK.
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Gaslighting? Laguerre?
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“Scotland voted by a still larger majority to remain in the EU. Let it become Independent, remain in the EU..”
Can someone tell me why the above makes sense? How is it that a supporter of Scottish independence can simultaneously campaign for the removal of Westminster rule; yet simultaneously advocate for continued EU membership with its attendant subordination of the country’s own legal system to that of Brussels?
How can Scotland be truly independent if it remains in the EU?
Simple the EU is a membership not a onesided union in which Scotland now resides. The EU has 27 members states each with their own government, each have control of all the levers of government (albeit common laws shared across the memberships club) as part of the UK, Scotland doesn’t have control of all the powers the EU 27 have.
Scotland doesnt even have any armed forces, nor control of its assets as part of the current UK set up. Currently Scotland is forced to house nukes and nuclear subs, EU nations are not forced to do such things.
Yes Scotland will have a voice as part of the EU, more so than as part of the current onesided union.
RoS
The question really is: would an independent Scotland leave NATO and ask UK to remove all nuclear weapons from Scottish soil? Probably not.
There are 4 nations in the EU who have what is called nuclear sharing Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Belgium. Also in addition there are probably many east European states with US bases with nuclear weapons, Romania, Bulgari and Poland. Do you really think that remaining in the EU Scotland will be allowed to denuclearize?
“The question really is: would an independent Scotland leave NATO and ask UK to remove all nuclear weapons from Scottish soil? Probably not.”
The Nato question is highly debatable, I for one am not a fan, and Ive read on other indy forums and websites that many don’t want to remain in the USA’s invasion club.
As for Trident.
“The Trident fleet is based at Faslane on the Clyde, but all Scottish MPs voted against renewal, apart from Scottish Secretary David Mundell.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36832631
Other EU states can share nukes if they please, as for the Eastern European nations they’re just buffer zones for US dominance against Russia.
The point is not whether you are a fan or nit, it is what you as an independent country will be ‘allowed ‘ to do.
SA.
That’s nonsense, five EU member states, all who have declared their non-alignment with military alliances, are not NATO members: Austria, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden.
Switzerland. Though some have signed minor agreements.
Why should a independent Scotland be any different?
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RofS, my friend — SA apparently is trying to wind you up?!
Sláinte ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
R of S
These 5 have not been NATO members but there is no precedent as far as I know of someone being allowed to exit NATO. Moreover for NATO and for Britain, relinquishing what is a very important nuclear bases is too important for ‘national security’. These are the sort of details that would emerge post independence.
As for Molloy’s comment: I may be but then I may not be trying to wind R of S up.
Austria is NOT permitted to be aligned to military alliances. It was the condition for withdrawal of Soviet Forces in 1955. The same deal was on offer for a United Germany in 1952 but US and UK did not like the prospect of a United Germany permanently neutral with Stalin as a guarantor. It is why supposedly no NATO Forces are allowed in the former GDR or to cross its territory but the US moves convoys of munitions along the A4 through to Poland in violation
Sweden denuclearised did she not?
So did Iraq……turned out badly
Each doing what Merkel and her globalist cabal dictate.
Mark, can you really not see the difference between Westminster and Brussels? Anyway, it’s not an either / or decision, independence is for Scotland to make that decision themselves and not let their larger neighbour dictate these decisions for them.
Scotland will kiss goodbye to independence in the EU, but the penny hasn’t dropped around here.
How so ? Can you give me some examples ?
At present in the UK Scotland doesn’t have a seat or a voice in the EU. It will as a independent nation.
Yes alongside the Basques and Catalans and Sorbs somewhere in a garden shed across the park
Firstly, tell me how a UK removed from the EU but still subordinate to it’s laws and now with no representation whatsoever in any of the EU’s institutions or Parliament is somehow better than being a member of those institutions with a vote or with an outright veto and having a say in whats happening ?
Cause like it or not, that’s what the UK’s getting for the next few years, if not a lot longer. And this is not hypothetical like a future independent Scotland, it’s going to happen at the end of March.
If you are looking for a truly independent state, then expect to be a very poor one with crippling trad deals.
Firstly, tell me how a UK removed from the EU but still subordinate to it’s laws and now with no representation whatsoever in any of the EU’s institutions or Parliament is somehow better than being a member of those institutions with a vote or with an outright veto and having a say in whats happening ?
Cause like it or not, that’s what the UK’s getting for the next few years, if not a lot longer. And this is not hypothetical like a future independent Scotland, it’s going to happen at the end of March.
If you are looking for a truly independent state, then expect to be a very poor one with crippling trad deals.
Britain is always free to cut its relationships with the EU. Nobody says no. If, however, Britain wants to retain its relationship with the EU, then they have to fit in with EU desires.
Aren’t the majority of NI ‘bigots’ of Scottish origin?
As soon as Ireland unites, then Dublin gets its own version of ‘The Troubles.’
Theresa May is not going to satisfy anyone on Brexit, but using it as an excuse for Scottish independence is plain wrong. Another EU hard border? And Scotland would be less independent in the EU. Better independence within a Confederation of the British Isles, but that won’t happen.
‘As soon as Ireland unites, then Dublin gets its own version of ‘The Troubles.
’The present Dail may be put out by more Sinn Fein representatives, therefore resistant to integration, but where do the ‘troubles” figure in this?
Skye Mull, didn’t the Scots come from Ireland in the first place? Was the bigotry we see in NI not a direct result of Westminster misinformation propaganda, when Ireland had the audacity to want to leave?
“Scotland voted by a still larger majority to remain in the EU. Let it become Independent, remain in the EU……”
Usually Craig Murray talks a lot of sense but I find it incredible that he, like the majority of Scottish Independence supporters (of which I am one), has got it so wrong about independence.
The UK is a unitary state. Scotland only plays a part in the EU by virtue of the fact that it’s a part of the UK, which is a member state. Scotland has never been a member of the EU, therefore an independent Scotland cannot remain a member of the EU. As soon as Scotland separates from the UK, it no longer has any part to play in the EU.
The only way that Scotland can remain as part of the EU is if it remains as part of the UK. This is fact. An independent Scotland can certainly apply to become a member in the future but until such time as it is accepted as a member, it will be outside the EU.
Currently, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are down in Westminster, fighting tooth and nail to stop Brexit. The mantra they preach is that ‘Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will’ and also ‘The people of Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU.’
So we have a situation where the leader of the SNP and the talisman of the independence movement itself, fighting on behalf of the Scottish people to keep us in the EU and at some point in the future, she will have to explain to the same Scottish people that she’s taking us out of the EU despite them overwhelmingly voting to remain in the EU.
These are the lies that the cult of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP perpetuate on a daily basis and the independence movement either doesn’t understand this or as I suspect, they prefer to bury their heads in the sand and believe it’s not true. At no point has the SNP ever made any attempt to clarify this position.
Do people see something wrong with this picture?
As I mentioned earlier, the SNP and its followers are a cult, they exhibit the recognised behaviour of a cult. Their followers exhibit the recognised behaviour patterns of cult members. They have got it completely wrong over the question of independence, Brexit and are purposely lying to their membership and followers regarding Scotlands future concerning the EU and none of their followers dare to question them and will fight anyone who does dare to question them despite the facts staring them in the face.
The SNP are not the party of Scottish Independence.
‘ (Nicola Sturgeon) .. that she’s taking us out of the EU despite them overwhelmingly voting to remain in the EU.’
Sturgeon is not taking us out of the EU, that seems a pretty fundamental thing to get wrong.
Did you even read my post?
Yes. Here is where you accuse Nicola Sturgeon of taking us out of the EU.
‘So we have a situation where the leader of the SNP and the talisman of the independence movement itself, fighting on behalf of the Scottish people to keep us in the EU and at some point in the future, she will have to explain to the same Scottish people that she’s taking us out of the EU despite them overwhelmingly voting to remain in the EU.’
OK, tartanfever, I am not paying any more attention to you. You don’t seem illiterate, so – as Mist001 speculates – you must have failed to read his post with due attention.
If you don’t understand plain English, you should not take part in debates.
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Gaslighting again, Counsellor? Hmmm……
¡No pasarán!
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Well we’re leaving the EU under the British governments Brexit, I suppose Sturgeon is attempting to keep Scotland in the EU, via stopping Brexit, if possible because she knows the economic damage leaving the EU will do to Scotland.
Yes I hear you say but independence will see us outside the EU needing to reapply to get in again. True, but remaing as part of the UK we’d not get back in at all. There’s a big difference betwee leaving as part of the UK for good, and waiting until Article 49 is agreed and rejoining the EU.
As for the SNP being a cult, well, they’ve a done bloody good job in government even though they’ve had one hand tied behind their backs, and faced constant attacks from Westminster’s branch managers at Holyrood, in the shape of Rennie, Leonard and Davidson, who loathe Scotland so much they’re prepared to vote against its interests.
Now tell me where the cult lies.
“…………and are purposely lying to their membership and followers regarding Scotlands future concerning the EU and none of their followers dare to question them and will fight anyone who does dare to question them despite the facts staring them in the face.”
That is the hallmarks and accepted definition of a cult.
How does leaving the UK, to then reapply to join the EU constitute lying to members, I’m pretty sure the majority all ready knew that.
It was well, pointed out during the 2014 independence referendum, that we’d need to rejoin, so its not as if it’s a big dark secret.
As for your constant use of term cult to describe the SNP, it makes you appear plain silly, compared next to real cults.
Oh and you might want to check the definition of a cult.
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/03/the-five-scariest-cults-in-modern-history/
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cult
Since the UK is underpinned by the Acts of Union between Scotland and England, it is not a unitary state apparently although it certainly behaves as though it is. As for the SNP being a cult – nonsense!
“…………and are purposely lying to their membership and followers regarding Scotlands future concerning the EU and none of their followers dare to question them and will fight anyone who does dare to question them despite the facts staring them in the face.”
That is the hallmarks and accepted definition of a cult.
The UK is not and never has been a unitary state. It is what historians call a composite monarchy like the old Hapsburg monarchy. Scotland has a separate legal, educational and ecclesiastical system from England and Wales. It is a nation but not yet a state. Northern Ireland is also different from E&W. Wales is itself a nation but has less of the institutions of a state. The problem in the UK is that the English and in particular the Conservatives run it as though it was a unitary state.
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Clive — Superb.
Sláinte
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“The UK is a unitary state. Scotland only plays a part in the EU by virtue of the fact that it’s a part of the UK, which is a member state. Scotland has never been a member of the EU, therefore an independent Scotland cannot remain a member of the EU. As soon as Scotland separates from the UK, it no longer has any part to play in the EU.The only way that Scotland can remain as part of the EU is if it remains as part of the UK. This is fact.”
Every single one of your above claims applied with 100% exactitude to England, after the putative breakup of the UK following the 2014 referendum:
‘England’ only played a part in the EU by virtue of the fact that it was part of the UK, which is a member state…
‘England’ had never been a member of the EU…
Therefore an independent ‘England’ could not remain a member of the EU…
The only way that ‘England’ could remain as part of the EU is if it remained as part of the UK….
That was fact…
And yet for some bizarre reason it wasn’t. In fact the opposite was the case. ‘England’ was going to seamlessly continue its membership of the EU without the slightest obstacle or hindrance.
So there’s you answer Mist. Post-Brexit, Scotland is going to seamlessly continue as a member of the EU by applying exactly the same logic and exactly the same mechanism through which ‘England’ was going to continue its membership post 2014.
It rather grieves me to have to explain that to a fellow independence supporter.
A lot has been said about “the democratic will of the people” to justify the shambles that is the current Brexit proposal negotiated by one woman with Europe and not even supported by her own party. The majority Brexit vote was only possible because a third of Labour voters approximately 4.5 million voters voted for Brexit. Now the main argument for carrying out Brexit, come what may is that this is the will of the people. But Surely these labour voters never really wanted to give the Tories, let alone TM, full power to negotiate some nebulous concept and call it Brexit.
Brexit should therefore have been from the begging a process for parliament with a cross party participation in order to really represent ‘the will of the people’. For some reason this supposedly most democratic process has been narrowed down to factional Tory politics.
And anyone thinks this is democracy, representative or otherwise?
Corbyn’s a closet Brexiteer, he’s remained tacit on Brexit for two years, except to mildly berate the Tories when the opportunity arose.
If Corbyn was a remainer the last two years at Westminster wouldn’t have been the Theresa May and the Tory show. But we’ve reached this point because the word democracy, and the will of the people (we voted to leave) have been used time and time again to put off Labour doing anything positive to halt the self inflicted wound that is Brexit.
If the will of the people, vote democratically to do something (Brexit) that does them harm in a number of ways, is it not incumbent of parliament to steer them away from such a thing regardless of a democratic vote?
RoS
What I am trying to say here is that there are several processes that seem to have been conflated and then used by TM to do what she thinks Brexit means.
If to leave the EU was the will of the people and parliament has accepted this then likewise Brexit, the will of the people to be respected and its processes and minutiae, should be a parliamentary process and not a process carried out by a small faction within the Tory party or even a single person.
For once I agree with you that Corbyn has not led successfully on Brexit whether to make it a success or whether to try and ameliorate its dangerous effects. However what i am talking about here is a faulty process, a matter that is of national importance that is cross party, has been left to be dealt with by a small faction of Tories. And yes it is the fault of labour for not trying to point this out.
RoS Corbyn is not a closet Brexiteer. He isn’t the architect of this chase and I commend him for maintaining a distance from the fiasco the Tory party are making of it – anything he says whether right, nearly right or wrong will be misquoted by the MSM and will be used to detract this Govt’s abject incompetence in negotiations. However, I was really, really impressed by the speech he made in the house today – it was angry, relevant, spot on and showed a real passion for democracy, the future of this country and a contempt for this current Government. It all comes down to if you are going to pick fights be selective about which you pick and start the fight at the optimum time.
Ditto Jo – you saved me the trouble.
One of the reasons I ‘dungroanin’ was that papers lies about Corbyn being a brexiteer when he campaigned actively for REMAIN.
He didn’t campaign for brexit and he didn’t remain neutral.
He was only allowed a limited amount of MSM appearances by the organisers of Labour Remain – they didn’t want him increasing his profile just as they were planning the first chickencoup – which took effect on the same day as the brexit result!
The sooner we can get an election the better – if the ERG have the balls they should declare their intention to vote for a no confidence motion!
It doesn’t need 113 tories who don’t want May – 13 would do to offset the DUP.
He isn’t a “closet Brexiteer” he’s Tony Benn’s protege and would have been standing shoulder to shoulder with Field, Skinner, Hoey etc had he not haphazardly fallen into leading the party of Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson.
This is the main reason he is despised by the slippery EUrophiles like Toynbee and Freedland over at The Fraudian.
What Corbyn has done is to hide his Brexit colours and rail against the Tory Brexit while hoping to rake in the votes of 5m Labour leavers. The problem, as Tony Benn always pointed out, is that Brexit actually has nothing to do with Right/Left politics and is an issue of democracy and sovereignty. This is why Corbyn is a busted flush.
Cometh the hour, cometh the turncoat. Or to be precise, cometh the flip-flopper.
What should have happened at such a time of grave importance, is a government of national unity the day after the referendum with a No-Deal option centre stage from the start. Instead we’ve been led up the garden path by a Tory Remainer and a Labour Leaver, both out of step with their own party’s.
Liar.
Corbyn CAMPAIGNED for REMAIN.
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Jo and DG — ditto and agreed.
¡No pasarán!
.
RoS – “Corbyn’s a closet Brexiteer … ”
Corbyn is an open Brexiteer. The Labour party voted to trigger article 50. Labour party policy is to exit the EU with a customs union close to the EU’s custom union and to remain as close to the single market as possible. This could work out quite well. The UK will need to accept EU rules but will not be able to influence those rules. It could mean that the UK will be forced to close all the tax loopholes available to the Tory’s and the Blairites rich friends, and to end the City’s penchant for laundering money.
The Tory’s current EU deal will leave the City open to further neoliberal deregulation, which worked so well in 2008. Not to worry though, profits obviously go to the rich but if it all goes south we taxpayers can bail them out again, by which time Scotland should safely be an independent country.
Sheesh you guys – he campaigned a lot for REMAIN.
As you say, Dungroanin, Corbyn campaigned for REMAIN.
He, like so many of us, was personally 7/10 in favour of remaining. So many people are selecting facts to fit their version of what they think Corbyn represents and are blind to the reality of his position.
I think Corbyn is basically a rare breed of honest politician and while being in favour of remaining in the EU (albeit with some misgivings) he recognises that their was, theoretically, a democratic vote in favour of leaving and that is why he is not very happy about a second referendum.
Hopefully, he will be persuaded, like so many others that the original vote should be considered invalid because of alleged fraud, misinformation, lack of information, etc.
“He, like so many of us, was personally 7/10 in favour of remaining”.
Garth, how many of him are there?
“Corbyn is an open Brexiteer. The Labour party voted to trigger article 50.”
At last someone who’s not lying to themselves over Corbyns animosity towards EU membership.
I think you will find Franz B that it was Labour rebels, i.e. the Blairite faction – whose knives were out for Jeremy Corbyn – who voted with the Tories in favour of triggering Article 50. In fact, I don’t think there was a parliamentary vote was there? I think Treason May just triggered it in a display of out right electioneering.
“For some reason this supposedly most democratic process has been narrowed down to factional Tory politics.”
The whole referendum came about because of factional Tory politics. The fact that it is ending the same way should surprise no one.
The whole referendum came about because of factional Tory politics
Rubbish. The issue has been ongoing for decades and used to be in the Labour manifesto before slippery types like Blair and Mandelson took over Labour.
You are showing your age.
Cameron gave the Eurosceptics the referendum to gain their support as well as stopping the hemorrhage of Tory support to UKIP. If Miliband had won the GE there would have been no referendum.
IT IS NOT THERESA MAY’S BRITAIN
But from day one she has behaved as if it is.
can’t be arsed anymore
Jazza – oh how right you are!!
People often mistakenly call the Tories “heartless” or say that they ‘don’t care’ They care DEEPLY, just not about US. They care for themselves and their rich friends and especially for their rich DONORS. (as can be evidenced from a tax system which is punitive to ordinary workers and rewards what ordinary people would call fraud – provided only done by rich individuals or companies)
They also care deeply about how they are perceived. They want to be perceived as righting the wrongs being perpetrated against our country by those defrauding it out of money. They care about this so that working and middle class voters can be tricked into voting for them. Along with their friends in the BBC and Channel 5 they put forward the ‘Benefits Street’ attitude that claimants are fraudsters, undeserving and lazy. They want us to think that the unemployed and disabled, who are already in poverty, are actually living the rich life at OUR expense and we should blame THEM for our country’s misfortune. It’s an excellent piece of misdirection and has been ongoing for decades, if not centuries by successive generations of Tory scum.
In a frenzy of victim blaming we are supposed think that people feign disability to get benefits and support a humiliating and highly stressful system of nationalised bullying of vulnerable people by ATOS and its successors to prevent those who ARE entitled to benefits from actually getting them, or at least make them wait an inordinate amount of time to get it.
Tabloid filth like (but not only) The Daily Mail, would have us believe that homeless people we see on the street begging for your loose change are actually living the high life in the suburbs on the change you hand them after your trip to Starbucks. So old is this trope that it was the plot of a Sherlock Holmes story (The Man With The Twisted Lip) at the end of the 19th Century!!
My years in the Civil Service taught me that firstly, just because something might be the most glaringly stupid thing to do, doesn’t mean a politician won’t do it (despite being aware of what will happen) and secondly, policy on benefits that APPEARS to have unintended negative consequences are NOT (unintended) Politicians seeking votes and kudos in combination with the ‘Nudge Unit’ are a dangerous mixture (for us, the public) I saw them implement Tax Credits and knowingly do so on a single day (instead of cutting across at renewal) when they were well aware the system would go down. I then saw them blame the Civil Service publicly for their own decision, whilst privately thanking the same people for helping to repair the damage. I saw the forms for various benefits after the Nudge Unit had it’s way with them and saw how they were deliberately obtuse, overcomplicated and designed to elicit wrong responses from the sick and vulnerable to the benefit of the treasury.
Much of this was under Tony Blair’s Labour but there was barely a ‘fag paper’ between them and the Tories. They lack the barest sense of morals and civic responsibility. They should never be allowed in to office again. Red OR Blue Tory…
Gary, what an informative blog post. I cannot agree with you about most of it happening under Tony Blair – it did not – under that Government Britain enjoyed a sustain period of economic growth and increased prosperity and intelligent legislation to help poor people who are in debt, to help disabled and single parents to get back to work and the rationalisation and modernisation of Local Government. It is easy to forget all of this. The recent IMF report actually highlights what successive TORY governments have done to this country’s economic – i.e. making it chronically unstable – I am not going to set it all out here but it is a very good read and shocking too. What this country needs is a good old fashion dose of Keynsian economics -i.e. put simply significantly increased government spending to create employment support industry and preserve jobs. Corbyn’s Labour can deliver this all set out in a fully costed Manifesto (Unlike the Tory’s which is not costed). There isn’t one labour government that I can remember who have caused such a dramatic economic situation or who has increased the deficit by around about triple to that which it was. I cannot remember one Labour Government who has ever been as contemptuous of the vulnerable, the poor, the disabled as this Government has been and so on and so forth. I do, though, remember Peter (can’t think of his surname at the moment) the Tory Government Minister who made a speech at the Party Conference and read out a roll call of people who had no rights, no right to respect or dignity and no right to any greater Government consideration – the roll call included single parents, the disabled, older people, the unemployed and others. This was at a Party Conference and was loudly applauded. Labour do not have a track record of doing any of this. I believe the Shadow Labour Government is one who is highly focussed on responsible stewardship, rebuilding industry, investing in jobs, investing in communities, reducing public transport and housing costs and for this they should be commended. What do this shambles of a government provide – more tax cuts for the rich,an economy in dire straights and a record deficit.
Spot on. What we are witnessing is the political and constitutional collapse of the UK, with the theoretically similar solution of disbanding it. And much of the pro-brexit vote was in part a protest by people who despair at England’s lack of any political identity as a nation – I am not at all sure that an independent England would still vote to leave the EU.
There are limits to the power of England. One limit is that they cannot vote for something that does not exist.
One way or another the EU is doomed. Take a look at what has been happening in France. Whatever happens there in the near term it now seems like a racing certainty that come the next election you will be welcoming President Le Pen. Last week in Spain and for the first time since Franco Fascists actually won an election. Take a look at what the EU is doing to Italy. Do you think that the AfD are at the high watermark in Germany. Look at Poland and Hungary – both are terminally out of step with core EU policies.
We are in the end game so far as the EU is concerned. Like a bad smell it may linger awhile but it is finished. Just a shame that the British are being denied their expressed desire to deliver the coup de grace
Que Zorra!!
Craig, I agree with what you say to a largish degree. However, I do believe, since the vote of a Lack of Competence in this Government in the past two weeks, that we do indeed have a constitutional crisis inasmuch as we have a minority Government who is being kept in office by a minority party to which they paid £1bn as a bribe in order that the Tory party could remain in power. Let’s be clear about this, this is Teresa May’s one over-riding objective, is to remain in power even though she is morally and intellectually unfit for office. She is the sole architect of this Brexit fiasco and should bear full responsibility for it. It is now a totally lost cause. Democracy was dealt a severe blow yesterday when she chose to cancel the crucial Brexit vote because she knew she would lose it which would constitute a constitutional crisis with Parliament having to be dissolved. I was made redundant recently and had to apply for Universal Credit. They haven’t paid me a penny and have not paid any rent to my housing association. My job coach made submissions as to the state of affairs and guaranteed me I would be paid the rent arrears by 17.11.2018 – I then get a notification to say they are not paying any rent; this is based on totally wrong information, without any reference to information submitted by my job coach and with totally wrong dates. I am therefore, now forced to lodge an appeal. I was nearly made homeless due to the arrears that h ad accrued – about which I had n o knowledge as I had believed the rent would be paid directly to my Landlord. UC did not notify me at any time that they would not be paying the rent. Fortunately, just fortunately, I acquired a permanent job and am paying the arrears – however, I still have to lodge an appeal to get reimbursement of the arrears. The whole UC system is utterly corrupt, and I mean corrupt – it’s only design is to prevent people from actively claiming.
Want is more concerning though is that Treason May appears to be acquiring behaviours and conduct more in keeping with a Dictator than a Prime Minister of a democracy. It is not acceptable, just not acceptable, for a Prime Minister to cancel a crucial vote for the future of this country on the basis that she will lose it and her Government will be dissolved. Do we live in a democracy – no of course we don’t. It’s been in steady decline since the idiot David Cameron became Prime Minister.
The recent IMF report is really interesting about the true damage to the economy two successive Tory Governments have done to the British economy. I have also been looking at world news and the USA dollar is in trouble also. The USA and UK economy are founded on the same lines – maximum consumer debt, a significant increase in the revenue of the wealthy and an economy underpinned by a refusal to raise interest rates when they should have done which is now going to cause maximum chaos because the interests rates are going to have to rise. The pound has slumped and the British Government has brought Britain down on its knees and we must surely now be the laughing stock of the world. Give credit to the French, Macron’s policies causing a rise in the cost of living? Bloody well get out there, hit the streets and demonstrate. What do we sheoples in the UK do? Sit back and bury our heads in the sand and say, oh well, what can we do? How dare the BBC try to support this sorry excuse for a Government by hyping and misrepresenting economic information. The MSM is totally a waste of time – merely a propaganda machine for the Tory party now.
What a bloody mess and what a body blow to an allegedly democratic nation.
Theresa May was Home Secretary for many years before becoming Prime Minister. Surely if she hates immigrants that much she would have prevented them from settling in this country. The facts do not square with your contention Craig. Millions of people have flooded this country under her watch. You do not like being called a racist so why do you think it is okay to imply that Theresa May is one?
And I do not like or support the Conservative Party.
John020 – umm I think you will find that is the result of the Tory Government’s surreptitioius underming of Trade Unions and the rights of workers to fair treatment, fair employment rights and fair wages. If you have read any of their literature and speeches you will find that they support Eastern European immigrants coming to Britain because, this h as allowed employers to treat workers with contempt, deprive them of any employment rights and bring in cheap workers to undercut that of British workers. It is in plain sight except people are not reading what is out there. I worked in manufacturing and let me assure you, there is now virtually no Unions, no employment rights, wages being reduced to the minimum wage and British people being denied work which is not being given to eastern European immigrants who have no employment rights. Such is the consequence of this Policy that in manufacturing today, there is barely any English spoken – how have we as a nation allowed this to happen or the Govt for that matter. British employees are being seriously discriminated against in terms of getting work in manufacturing but its how this Govt wants it to be.
Immigrants working in our vital Fenland farming industry do not undercut “British’ workers wages, this is a lie trodden out by UKIP for theose who voted to leave.
The real problems Fenland farmers predict is that they cant get British workers to work the hours required, our Tarquins and John’s cant get their backsides out of bed, are unable to keep to times and are unreliable.
This industry supplies 25% of our fresh foods mainly veg and farmers are worried.
No time for glib remarks like that if you cant get your own relations out to work.
nevermind
December 12, 2018 at 22:59
Are you aware of the unpalatable truth that there are thousands of slave migrants workers are working in Northern factories and being paid as little as £10 a week plus tobacco.
Hi nevermind, I’ve been to the fenland farms and heard this said. But the counter-argument is that the Tarquins and Johns _would_ get out of bed if the conditions were good enough and the pay was good enough. It’s true that the Tarquins and Johns don’t want to commute to the fens to work crazy hours in tough conditions for a tiny wage.
well that’s alright then! Get the slaves in! That is no argument at all!
Allowing reduced standards is a race to the bottom and immoral. Fuck, my toothbrush just broke and took my eye out. Still, it was only cheap.
Nevermind, I have had the misfortune to work with many eastern Europeans – to suggest that they work hard and are committed is not a fact. They are in it for the money only. However, study their work habits – they spend a lot of time chatting in their own language, slagging off the British, if they are in any kind of managerial position carving up the overtime between them and their families who also work with them. I wouldn’t say they work hard at all – in fact, quite the opposite. If they are stupid enough to put up with the appalling working conditions and low wages well, good luck to them. Maybe we the British, expect better from our Employers and for proper conditions of employment and employment rights. Nothing wrong with that. The Polish and the Romanians are by far and away the most racist, the laziest and the most dishonest of them
,,,and so we learn that the Economic Inactivity rate has fallen to 21%. Naturally this is a bad thing as it is indicative “that many pensioners are forced to keep on working…”
Economic Inactivity rates are calculated by reference to the population falling in the age range 16-64. Those not sucking at the teat of the state understand that 64 is below the retirement age. Those interested in logic understand that whatever economic inactivity rates may tell us, they tell us absolutely nothing about pensioner poverty.
Hmmmm…
” Those not sucking at the teat of the state ”
Are you referring to the Financiers and banks that still suck to this day at the teat of the State?
Those who were responsible for ‘ misappropriating ‘ ( I’m being kind there) possibly your investments and involved many other scams?
The investments you and many others may have been grateful for because to not do it would have cost many investors a packet.
I’m not sure you understand what austerity is – why it has come about and its effects.
The asset classes were bailed by the state out and the States teat was and is still raw at all the suckling by the haves and the have nots are fighting back.
I hear that in the US those who have given up looking for work – official work that is are not counted as unemployed.
One hour a week in the UK is considered a job.
Only Jeff Bezos’s hourly rate is worth getting out of bed for that.
By the way -your not Mr Bezos – are you?
He employs a lot of people for one hour at least. Somtimes two if they are lucky.
Everything you write is irrelevant to the fact that economic inactivity rates measure economic inactivity of those aged between 16 and 64 and that 64 is below the age of retirement. Therefore economic inactivity rates are incapable of informing anyone as to levels of pensioner poverty.
Rather you are writing about the governing kleptocracy which is a serious but different issue. Into this mix you add low wage and insecure employment and this is explicable by simple supply-demand economics. If you don’t like any of this then your best short term option is to insist on the hardest of hard Brexits.
Sorry Loony.
There is no government ‘kleptocracy.’
The government facilitates the Kleptocracy.
The allow them to amass vast amounts of money by rule of law.
In your country this is done by Congress and the Corporate Lobbyists literally write the laws.
In the UK Parliament and governments do the same on behalf of our own Kleptocracy.
The kleptocracy is not any government.
Like when a bank robber robs a bank the getaway driver has not actually robbed the bank – he/she has just driven the car.
Involved in the crime but not the actaul robber of the bank.
Politicians have been getting away for years with this no responsibility wheeze.
That’s why the people who have fathomed what it’s all about t are revolting.
Was it not Orwell who observed that some ideas are so stupid that they could only be believed by intellectuals?
Next up is the intellectual idea that immigration does not suppress wages. Another way of writing this is that the law of supply and demand does not exist. The fact that there is no demand for gas lamp lighters should not mean people do not train to be gas lamp lighters, and if they do then they can earn money by lighting gas lamps that do not exist.
Much of the immigration into the UK has been of the low skilled variety. A lot of the UK (former) working classes are low skilled. Demand for low skilled jobs is in decline – this is what technology in general, and AI in particular, is all about. So we have an increasing supply of low skilled labor at the very same time that there is decreasing demand for low skilled labor. Somehow this has no effect on wages.
All makes perfect sense. But don’t worry because if you can actually get people to believe this crap then there is every chance that you could obtain sponsorship from Mike Ashley – he would really love people to believe this type of garbage.
I couldn’t help but notice, the global elite love immigration.
I couldn’t help but notice that lots of people blame immigration for everything that is wrong in their life, while also affecting a concern for the working class.
Nice.
Also it us the employers who lower the wage paid to the abused workers.
Yet they seem to bear no responsibility.
I could give personal examples.
I think you need to get yourself a new set of friends/acquaintances by the sound of it.
If that included some actual working class peeps, so much the better
You seem to notice a lot of things that do not actually exist. I understand that the medical condition of schizophrenia may constitute a possible explanation.
The question is do you believe that increasing the supply of something (low skilled labor) at a time of decreasing demand for low skilled labor will depress wages?
.
L — “The question is do you believe that. . . . “ L is gaslighting?
¡No pasarán!
.
Word salad is such a lovely phrase. Something which happens when one tries to leave an impression of having said many things without actually saying any of them. Yaxley-Lenon does that too.
Anyway: I see we’re de-legitimising intellectuals again are we? Pesky bloggers and tricky academics, asking all those ‘high falutin’ informed questions?
You seem to be tortuously suggesting the idea “immigration does not suppress wages” is somehow a ‘leftist intellectual’ argument, instead of the ruling neo-liberal justificatory ideology. (Of course without actually having said any of that, hence the salad.)
Yeah, as if it isn’t the result of a continuum of deliberate political choices that there exist many unskilled labourers in the British neo-liberal economy? We all thought it was an act of God round here.
Do Tommy’s legions* know that once outside the EU, they are the serfs, they are the cheap labour? Do they understand that the current education system, the debt, the destruction of the welfare state and privatisation of the NHS are, in combination, the workhouse gate?
Actually, they’re beginning to. People are beginning to awake from the race baiting of Tommy and The Mail. They’re also beginning to awaken from the class snobbery and identity politics of the Guardian. I imagine your next claim will be that a return to the workhouse is simply inevitable, we’ll have to get used to it. Thank heavens.
*Tommy, archetypal British working class descriptor innit. He’s a highly polished (if somewhat volatile) marketing creation from top to bottom.
Isn’t he though?
Spot on.
He is hardly a Lennon or Lenin – more a not posh mossley.
100% cipher.
Craig Murray wrote: “It is rather that the incredibly successful Tory narrative remains the false attribution of working class poverty to immigration”
My point is that no narrative is necessary. It is obvious that if you increase the supply of low skilled labor at a time when demand for low skilled labor is in decline then downward pressure will be exerted on wages. To argue otherwise is beyond asinine.
The only way in which Murray’s contention could rise from the absurd is if you believe that low skilled working class people derive wealth from some source other than work. If you believe this then wage don’t matter at all and could decline to zero without consequence.
Loon you believe there is falling “demand for low skilled labour”?
Kindly list what you consider to be ‘low skilled labour’ and how many workers are doing it over the years.
Then point us to the data about how much demand for it has fallen and the ‘downward pressure’ that the wages have suffered.
It is lot easier than repeating yourself.
Let’s hope that the court ruling on transfer of powers from the EU to the devolved govrnment of Scotland which is due on Thursday – gives Nicola the last ” change of circumstance” that we need to dissolve this abusive Union – what can possibly be required now ? – let’s not procrastinate any longer and get out NOW !
+200 -117 = a majority of 83 of the Tory troughers supporting May.
She’s at it again at the moment outside No 10 promising ‘to build a better Britain’.
Over and over we hear the same empty words.
It is like having to listen to a LP where the stylus has stuck.
I feel like emigrating. It is so depressing.
Poor Sharp Ears. But cheer up, Craig has posted these new thoughts! 🙂
83 is pretty close to the limit. It is not a great result for her.
All mp’s in various departments automatically vote for the PM that is why she actually got most of the 200.
I am not convinced she automatically got votes from the 178 Tory MPs on the government payroll. They would include for example the 8 ERG members in the Cabinet. On the other hand, I am not convinced it’s really a secret vote either. There’s nothing a Tory likes more than successfully telling lies for money.
The forex markets aren’t being that joyus – already slipping after a mild rise.
This isn’t over. Could follow the Maggie defenestration routine. Greasy Gove may have thought he was in pole position to rise from the cabinet. Expect he is prepping his ‘chute to make the leap at any moment.
Yes, the ERG could finish her at Cabinet level. They have the numbers. Not a majority – unless they’ve got a few sleepers, which they may have – but sufficient numbers.
Sharp Ears
It’s unfortunate that some of you in the South, esp those keeping an eye on the murky goings on in London are feeling Depressed.. and no wonder. Some of you may begin to feel how us Scottish Independence Fighters felt after the 2014 indy ref Vote. Heartbreak. And now we have to watch the Sureal antics at westminster.
Of course Uk Gov / Intelligence were up to their necks in lies for both Referendum votes.. and aint the Fkn bbC at it again – The Propagada Blitz begins –
The BBC tweeted out an article saying “Pay rise takes MSP salary to more than £63,000”, accompanying it with an old picture of the Scottish Cabinet.
However, since April 1 2009, all Scottish government ministers, including First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, have chosen not to accept their full entitlement – a voluntary pay freeze which means their take-home salary remains at 2008-09 levels.
Sturgeon tweeted: “Not sure why the BBC has illustrated this story with a photo of the @scotgov Cabinet, given that Scottish Ministers will not get a pay rise. We have chosen yet again to freeze our salaries at 2008/09 levels – donating the difference to the funding of public services” –
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17294132.bbc-forced-to-replace-picture-after-first-minister-corrects-them/?fbclid=IwAR1aLF5QRZO0hg9TwC83Jjf4X7Q7J5b1Qk5609ggGVpkRyUevU_q_J638I8
P.s Get yirself a wee place up here, send all your stuff ahead, and if Clark, or Nevermind is comming to the Festival you might squeeze a free lift..Chin up the Noo
The cynic’s view on the thing that came out of the British swamp: Brexit
Most British politicians are, by definition, consumed with their own image as “politicians”. They are, for the most part, leeches on the body public. Overpaid and under worked puppets who exist to create the impression of representative democracy, when no such thing actually exists in the Western world today. They therefore need lots of raw material that allows them to give the impression to the public that they are needed/useful/actually doing anything meaningful/not a bunch of freeloaders. That raw material is ‘politics’, drama, stuff happening in society that needs ‘strong and stable’ leadership, apparently. Otherwise, the House of Commons would quickly start to look like the House of Lords.
In that respect, ‘Brexit’ was, is and will continue to be, a godsend for UK politicians. From the beginning, not ONE of them actually thought it was implementable, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? 2.5 years of incessant disingenuous punditry, speculation, hand-wringing and dire warnings, not to mention first time TV appearances for many that would never have otherwise gotten a look in.
And now? Theresa May and the establishment party lives to fight another day (or rather, another 2 years of the ‘transition period’ plus a hefty extension on that). Tonight’s pathetic deliberations in the House of Commons resulted in her winning the no confidence vote for one reason only – the only thing the Conservative establishment cares about – keeping Jeremy Corbyn out of 10 Downing street.
Brexit my ass.
Will of the people? You’re ‘avin a bleedin’ laf!
Indeed Labour Friends of Israel and others have worked hard after a failed coup and mitigation of the forged threat posed by Labour anti-Semitism under Corbyn, to keep PM May in power at all costs. Our establishment recognises the threat to
financialnational security if JC gets the keys to No 10.The way that some btl commentators are rehashing their pathetic vitriol on many boards confirms to me that they are heading for the next ABC campaign.
No GE but a parliamentary coup/or Labour forced to form a minority government by request of Brenda on xmas day? A monarch can do that.
(This would stop the massive lab majority ensuing from a GE and re-empower the ‘centrist’ nulabs.)
The markets seem to believe she won’t last £ already fading from a slight rise after her ‘win’.
That’s a grand scheme and I totally endorse your proposals for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Just a couple of hurdles. Firstly, with England and Wales outside the EU Scotland would be required to adopt the Euro. Perhaps I am misremembering but I seem to recall that an independent Scotland was intent on keeping the pound. Secondly, even without the new threat of joining the rest of the PIIGS (not my choice of perjorative) on the periphery of the Eurozone, a sizeable majority of Scots actually voted to remain in the UK. Since you are not proposing a second indyref, I suppose you will just have to sell them down the river.
If only she had contributed something positive in office. In presiding over the managed decline of the UK she has made the ever-widening divide between the ‘haves and the have-nots’ much, much worse.
On the other hand, her pusillanimity has so enraged ordinary people that a grassroots revolt is growing in strength. UKIP’s fearlessness in the face of Conservative ‘classism’ is to be admired so Batten’s ‘common touch’ gets my vote. I look forward to the speedy demise of the Conservative party at the hands of their ‘handmaiden’s’ own goal. Guess Gazza’s the new king.
Kula, yes I guess she could stop the roll out of Universal Credit, she could have done a lot of things but, she has no interest in the Nation at all only her rich mates in the Cabinet, her husband’s continued growth in wealth and her own personal interest in retaining power. The British Nation? As far as she is concerned – we can go to hell, the lot of us.
Those hankering after the breakup of the U.K. may well heed the advice: careful what you wish for.
Brexit has shown how difficult it is to leave a supposedly voluntary arrangement given the current dominant position of international neoliberalism. Everything will be done to keep the system from outside threats including ruining those who fight it and they become isolated. I write as if I condone Brexit but that is not my aim. The thought that I am trying to convey is that the fate of a broken up U.K. may well result in those statelets all becoming unable to control thier fate, just like the statelets that resulted from the breakdown of the former Yugoslavia. Other simplistic calls such as trying to classify whether immigration is good or bad or whether it is racist to express certain views about immigration and the discussions about globalisation and its evils also all suffer from this confusion in which some in the left have fallen into.
The problem is that context is everything. It is mere tinkering at the edges to address these matters and not see the very large elephant in the room which is neoliberalism. Any small changes within this monstrous state of the world will only result in fragmentation of efforts and not attempts to slay the monster.
There is only one answer that will connect all the threads and that was proposed by Karl Marx: “Workers if the world unite. You have nothing to loose but your chains”.
I had not expressed my thoughts on Scottish independence before, because it is not my business and, I don’t want to be blamed of alarming. But, the things are what they are.
Breaking from EU or UK puts a question, who are your allies and who are your enemies from now on. Don’t forget that any ‘independent state’ is highly likely to face another color revolution, if it doesn’t coordinate its politics with the “…nation.. so exceptional and so incredibly blessed… that it also creates a responsibility, a duty for America all across the world. ” (c) Mike Pompeo
You may hope for good relations with England and EU, but what if it changes? Learn from USSR, you all can see Ukraine and Russia, former 2 most close brother peoples
NATO base, do you understand that it is the aim for Russian missiles in the case of war?
Do you realize that Trump had already accused Russia of breaching US-RU missile Treaty?
If you think they will alow you to get rid of NATO base, you’d better learn from Okinawa.
—-
Do you want a russian joke about small sovereign country?
Oh, well, I’ve translated it, whatever.
* disclaimer I. Pregnant women, persons under 18 and those with unstable mental state, better do not read it.
** disclaimer II. It is dedicated to “f@ck the EU” (c) Victoria Nuland, that clearly express US attitude to international law.
——
Higher School of International Relations. Professor gives a task to a student:
– our submarine accidentally sank a merchant ship of a small sovereign country. This country put forward a protest note. Your task is to write the answer to this note.
Half an hour later, the answer is compete.
– You wrote everything correctly. Your mark is ‘good’.
– Why not ‘excellent’ ?
– Well, you have some inaccuracies here. You’ve missed the apostrophe in the phrase ‘dont give a f#ck’, and you should write ‘@rsehole’ with the capital letter ‘A’ when adressing the leader of a sovereign state.
—-
I’m deeply sorry for any harm to anyone’s feelings.
.
Taty — Helpfully. . . people on this site can clearly read what your ‘real’ agenda is.
Why take people, including Russian people, for fools?
It really ain’t doing yesself any favours, My Lovely.
.
Molly – we can both play this game.
Lets see your arguments. Challenge.
Tatyana, a good dose of common sense I think. Well put.
SA excellent. I agree with Marx – start the Revolution now and long may it live!
It is exactly the difficulty of EU exit that underlines the more the urgency of and necessity of it.
We should cut the Irish and Scottish loose. I mean, what have they ever done for us anyway? They are thick as thieves the pair of ’em. We’ve been trying to civilise the Irish for 900 years and what do we get for our troubles? they tried to kill Maggie! talk about a bunch of ingrates!
As for the Scots, Braveheart my arse, they can have a hard border, it’ll keep ’em hemmed in up there. Bloody freezing in the winter anyway.
Lets sling them and dump that EU whorehouse with its German pimps. Thats what we voted for so time to deliver.
Succinctly Swiftian, Bravo.
German pimps? My word, why did none of the English political whotes change it during the last 4 decade? Took the money and bugger you poor plebs.
If the Eu would have been ‘pimped’ by English pimps, Eric knows about pimps it seems, it would have found itself in a continuous war. Some of you lot juust cant get over having to give up your slavery, empires, and duffing your caps to the thiefing landed gentries in the morning.
You have three more month of watching chaos rip your system apart and dividing the country.
or get back into the EU and reform its democracy you so dislike, but only discovered three years ago.
Why do people like Eric sound off the worst bile here and feel unable to speak their mind to their own representatives? Is it because you live under a yoch and are manipulated by a shitty ancient electoral system?, or is it because you are too allof and cant be bothered, bar the moaning that is?
Off to do some work in the cold easterly whilst Tarquin is turning over in bed.
Please explain how they should reform the EU. I’ve been hearing political parties from all over Europe saying that for over 30 years. Never ever have they delivered. If you’re so smart, tell them how to do it.
Ras, the Green Party has qkuestioned an unelected top echelon the moment they got elected to the EU Parliament, but they were the butt of jokes, all sandals and bearts, nobody tool their thoughts seriously.
Reform has to come.from a coalition of thoughts in Europe, Commissioners must be accountable. Open discourse within the EU council should be backed up with equal power, i.e. betwern elected Commisioners and electrd representatives. Ideally representatives should not be Party appointees, but to change that takes more than a changed electoral system.
To dis an EU that had provided a peaceful, bar a few Balkan glitches, cooperation, created the most lucrative market in the world, an idea that went beyond nation states, provided smooth frictionless trade and common goals was a progressive idea.
To call the Germans pimps because they got on with it, invested R&D in their industry , all the time to keep providing top quality goods, because companies engaged with unions and put them on the boards, because they drove Europe forward, is outright sad and pitifully pathetic.
Because the English want to run away, dragging the union into the mud, effectively ending it, they want their Independence, but dare you Scots want the same, because of this single minded stupidity, all but the establishment hangers on and the information fakers of the MSM.
Get back into the E U and enter it with an elected Commissioner, not by Parliament or big businrss, but the people, by means of a new fair and proportional means.
But good to hear you thought Raskolnikov, now tha you have joined this.blog.
I’m sorry but you provided nothing to assuage my doubts.
Let me remind you that commissioners are not elected. They are all appointed. If what you say is: we should change the system such that they are elected, my question is then: how will you achieve this? There is no mechanism within the EU to achieve this. The EU will collapse before such a change will be possible.
Lol … talk about missing a sense of humour. Replicants can’t empathise?
Nevermind, gently i say to you …WHOOOOOOSH.
Hilariously wrong. In her tenure as Home Secretary, May admitted more immigrants into this country than anyone else. The ‘go home’ van was aimed at illegal immigrants – you know, those who are here illegally. And it was only ever a sop to the right anyway. May is fully committed to the globalist programme.
Hilariously wrong. Er, Windrush? There’ve been a number of high profile cases of deportations, not illegal, but deemed not to have fulfilled unreasonable conditions. More than a few highlighted right here btl.
Mark Curtis — on May (an inept diversion); on Atrocities; on US$UK War Crimes:
Atrocity 8 mins; UK’s Human Rights Abuses- Was Theresa May Involved in the Ariana Grande Concert Bombing? – YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QM9EYrE3wqA
¡No pasarán!
.
.
(from a comment by a “T Welsh”)
. . . . a masterclass, not, in UK$ elitist propaganda.
“Presumably you are unaware of the thousand-year history of Britain before it was gradually tricked into what has become the EU of today. Britain stands out as one of the most successful independent nations in the world.”
Irony or what?!
¡No pasarán!
.
Fucking Romans – what did they ever do for us!
Why isn’t Corbyn calling for a Yello Vest movement in the UK? Why isn’t he supporting them?
He has a movement or two already – it has over half a million members. They are all waiting for the inevitable election that will allow the stinking stables to be flushed out for the first time in half a century.
The establishment is refusing to have that election. They are even planning to cancel democracy and elections and have a parliamentry coup. They may well use the aged royalty to command that a minority govt be formed instead. We are suckers for her. They will try and stop him creating an effective govt by insisting on a coalition. It is only at that point, that a mass protest demanding an election would matter. I have several yellow vests. They are mandatory for driving in France. I’ve never used them. Hope I don’t have to.
Reminder: Theresa May when she was Home Secretary blocked an investigation into Russian money paid to Leave campaign funder (or conduit) Arron Banks. We know she was at the beck and call of the Z__nist Community Security Trust when she was at the Home Office. Does she also bat for Putin?
From 3 weeks ago: “Brexit: High Court to rule if referendum vote ‘void’ as early as Christmas after Arron Banks investigation“:
“The High Court will rule as early as Christmas whether Brexit should be declared ‘void’, in a legal case given a turbo-boost by the criminal investigation into Leave funder Arron Banks.
Judges are poised to fast track the potentially explosive challenge, after Theresa May’s refusal to act on the growing evidence of illegality in the 2016 referendum campaign (…)
Lawyers describe that failure as ‘absolutely extraordinary’ (what a boring, irritating, lazy and petty-bougeois choice of words – N_ note) – given the National Crime Agency’s (NCA) probe into suspicions of ‘multiple’ criminal offences committed by Mr Banks and the Leave.EU campaign.
Now (…) the case is likely to move to a full hearing and a ruling within weeks of opening on 7 December, with the clock ticking on the UK’s departure from the EU next March.”
So get ready for this one. Much better really for a Tory prime minister to be brought down in a scandal in which she is exposed as helping a foreign power help fascist moneygrabbing scum cause a referendum result that could cause the food supply to run out than that she gets unseated by a crowd of troughers in Committee Room 14.
LOCK BANKS AND MAY UP!
(Try saying that on Shitter or Fuckbook and see how few people those US advertising companies send your message to.)
Unfortunately the Independent don’t say who is bringing the legal case they refer to. Any ideas who it might be?
Further evidence of the liberal-centrist retreat into escapism, denialism and conspiricism.
Otherwise known as “Putindunnitism”.
That’s a lot of “isms” you’re chucking, @joel. You forgot “revisionism” and “rootless cosmopolitanism”.