Boris Johnson has crossed the Rubicon today by announcing the suspension of Parliament at this crucial time, no matter how many days the suspension lasts. The United Kingdom has found itself with the most right wing government in nearly two hundred years. I still find it hard to believe that Sajid Javid, Dominic Raab and Priti Patel hold great offices. Even that minority of those voting who put this Tory minority government in place did not expect that. Now that right wing coup is being doubled down on by the deliberate suspension of the Westminster parliament just as the most crucial and divisive issue in several generations is being resolved.
There is an irony here. Johnson has been able to take over without facing the electorate because of the polite constitutional fiction that it is the same Conservative government continuing and nothing has changed. Yet he justifies the prorogation of parliament by the argument that it is a new government and a new Queen’s Speech is thus needed. Johnson is of course famously in favour of having cake and eating it, but the chutzpah of this is breathtaking.
As countries slip to the far right, the failure of the more decent forces in society to unite and to react with sufficient vigour is crucial. Jo Swinson and others need to stop their caviling and get behind Jeremy Corbyn’s no confidence plans.
Here in Scotland, it ought to be a matter of deep shame if we do not now immediately move decisively to claim Independence. The SNP needs to stop prattling on as if keeping the UK in the EU was the priority. No. The priority is Independence, and Independence Now. If the leadership of the SNP want a referendum, they should move now to hold it within a few months, this year. Otherwise they should dissolve Holyrood and hold a Holyrood election with the declared aim of declaring Independence if there is a majority won for that. It is now inevitable that, if the SNP continues to shilly shally on Independence, a new party will arise in response to public opinion, to outflank and challenge them by prioritising Independence. Hopefully Johnson’s new move will finally kick the SNP to act NOW and make that unnecessary.
This is ”Taking back control ‘which was the mantra of some in the EU referendum – now we REALLY know what they meant !
“The priority is Independence, and Independence Now. If the leadership of the SNP want a referendum, they should move now to hold it within a few months, this year. Otherwise they should dissolve Holyrood and hold a Holyrood election with the declared aim of declaring Independence if there is a majority won for that.”
That’s almost right. The SNP should call for a Holyrood election, yes. They do not have the authority either legally or morally (with 37% of the vote and operating a minority government) to dissolve the Scottish parliament, but hopefully they would win the required two-thirds of MSPs’ votes for dissolution if they stop being so chickensh*t and actually propose it.
Standing for election on a single-policy platform would be an insult to the population, and it is patently obvious that UDI would only lead to a lot of violence on the streets in circumstances where there is unlikely to be an overwhelming majority for independence and the SNP does not, generally speaking, have the massed ranks of the police, army, and army veterans on its side.
So the main policy in the SNP manifesto if their call for a Holyrood election is successful should be to hold another independence referendum, and to let independence come about peacefully if the Indy side wins a simple majority in that referendum.
Go for it.
There is a way to cause the Scottish parliament to be dissolved ad that is for Nicola Sturgeon to resign. This would cause a leadership election and together will the SNP and greens they could prevent the election of a new leader that way the parliament would have to be dissolved without the normal two-thirds majority.
No. The SNP cannot ask for yet another mandate when it has had three already and the UK government said NAW. Westminster will deny it again. Then what? ask again? Come on. Off your knees. They cannot be Oliver Twist asking for more! Scotland cannot remain the Cinderella nation any more. The time for politeness is over.
They need a majority of outright indy and if british nationalissts take to the streets we’ll be there to greet them. Sometimes you have to stand up to tyranny.
It would be unforgivable for the SNP to do that as far as I’m concerned.
“I still find it hard to believe that Sajid Javid, Dominic Raab and Priti Patel hold great offices.”
As well as Priti Patel (sacked from the outgoing administration for her secret links to a foreign power), there is also Gavin Williamson (sacked after being accused of leaking information from the National Security Council, although curiously never arrested).
… not forgetting Jeremy *unt, the Culture Secretary who, while deciding the fate of Rupert Murdoch’s takeover bid for BSky – denied in the Commons having connections to Murdoch … was subsequently exposed by leaked emails to be not only supplying inside information to Murdoch on the bid but actively supporting it … should have been sacked if not jailed for his conduct … was instead promoted.
This is what Nicola Sturgeon posted on Twitter.
From Twitter: “So it seems that Boris Johnson may actually be about to shut down Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit. Unless MPs come together to stop him next week, today will go down in history as a dark one indeed for UK democracy.”
Is this the best she can do?
We should withdraw from Westminster and get on with achieving Independence. What worse disaster is she waiting for?
“Withdraw from Westminster” and leave the Tories there with an ample majority, huh?
Bear in mind that Scottish people sent Scottish MPs to Westminster to represent them, and that thr turnout in Scotland is higher in Westminster elections than in Holyrood ones. Ian Blackford is actually taking quite a responsible position.
Unlike Sinn Féin, the SNP are not elected on an abstentionist platform. The SNP Westminster group could do the honourable thing and resign to provoke by-elections where they adopted an abstentionist position. Sinn Féin didn’t fall for the fool’s errand of saving England from English nationalism.
I really do wish people would stop wanting the SNP to see Sinn Fein as any sort of example.
Sinn Fein succeeded in getting independence for Ireland.
lysias
Hardly legitimately gained. They subverted England’s constitutional dictates. (Albeit only after the English had dismissed a landslide mandate for Irish independence in 1918.)
Jo1
To understand why Sinn Fein exists, you have to understand the history of Ireland, the treatment of the Irish by the British, particularly the Catholic community, and the Unionist collonisation of the North.
Andyoldlabour
I’m not discussing the history of Ireland! I’m talking about the stupidity of mixing Irish/NI politics with Scottish politics. It’s a very bad idea.
Jo1August 28, 2019 at 12:13
I really do wish people would stop wanting the SNP to see Sinn Fein as any sort of example.
XaviAugust 28, 2019 at 13:15
lysias
Hardly legitimately gained. They subverted England’s constitutional dictates. (Albeit only after the English had dismissed a landslide mandate for Irish independence in 1918.)
The democratic election, held on December 14th, 1918, was part of the elections to the House of Commons that had not been held in 1915. Sinn Féin won 73 seats of 105. The Irish Unionist party increased their seats from 17 to 22, The Irish Parliamentary Party declined from 74 to 6. The IPP had championed a home rule parliament for Dublin in the 1910 election, similar –but not the same – in scope and ambition to Holy rood. The Easter rising of 1916 and the execution of prisoners by the Crown forces there after changed Ireland forever. Sinn Féin at the time was taking part in the Democratic process and won utilising it. Unlike Scotland and Holy rood there was no parliament in Dublin (Dail Eireann) it was its subsequent formation in January 1919 and the refusal to recognise it that led to an escalating revolt against British rule and eventually the War of Independence.
Ciaran
Please read my subsequent post. It’s not about Irish politics. I’m merely pointing out the dangers of mixing Irish/ NI politics with Scottish politics.
Not forgetting the Black and Tans and their atrocities carried out on people living in poverty, many of whom, including the children, had no shoes. My father who was born in Limerick where his father was working installing refrigeration in Matteson’s bacon factory, was a teenager at that time. He saw some horrific scenes. He and his family returned to their home in Southampton in 1922.
“I really do wish people would stop wanting the SNP to see Sinn Fein as any sort of example.”
Why? Are you a sectarian bigot?
No, I am not, Hatuey.
Indeed, I prefer my politics free of sectarian poison. We have enough of that in Scotland in our football.
Jo1
I suppose you are aware that in present day Northern Ireland, it is the Unionists and their disgusting Orange Lodge marches, who are keeping sectarianism alive and well.
Id say we are way too diverse now for that to take hold. It’s a lot of Ra Ra Ra from a very small minority who granted, show an amazing capacity to swallow obvious & utter nonsense, persistently.
I don’t think the original ref that came out of nowhere is the same as their base or the political landscape now. Most are just trying to get on, if they voted yes or no, they may be able to be motived once, for a kick or just thinking this means something different, but it wasn’t that a big deal to most imo. But when the actual results become more clear?, certainly of what Borris wants to do?
It had no roots peoples conditions, they where just told it did. Led along by the elites, jet setting globalists who are just the same. But now it’s actually threatening, now we may well see what a bottom up movement looks like that does have roots, that people will be forced to think about. .
Im reminded of Marx, On how working class are forced to view their own conditions & make their own mind up. It’s an entirely different story that arises as truth. . .
So your reaction is very similar, really. & indy is the cure all.
I’d say yes, moving to that stance (seriously) may be a good idea given what might pan out, it obviously depends on how well the SNP have really planned things to work. Though I don’t think if worst cases start arriving it will stick. If we even get to that point.
What is critical is actually grasping the issues that will be faced & being honest about that. There has to be transparency. Don’t follow the Tories down their road, it will get ugly.
This has been coming for some time and that is why I made up my mind at the weekend to stand at the next election for Dundee West in the case of a general election or the Northeast in the case of a Scottish election, My answer to those who say I would split the vote in the case of a general election is that I will be campaigning on a different platform from the SNP. I will be campaigning on a policy of independence not saving the UK. The only thing that will stop this is if the SNP change their policy on treating an election as a mandate for independence.
Good on you Bob Costello. Rare for people like you to stand up for their beliefs.
I remeber the rhetoric about ‘material change in circumstances’ and all that from Sturgeon. She’s on her third prime minsiter, the UK parliament is about to be suspended, how much material change in circumstances does this woman need?
You see what Johnson is planning to do with the UK parliament. How much thought does anyone think he’ll give to closing down Holyrood after the next GE to shut the noisy Scots up?
If Sturgeon doesn’t act now, then she has to take her empty weasel words and go. Shameful leader.
You misheard her, she’s waiting for a “change in her material circumstances.” 😉
Haha, the thing you and the rest are missing is that there s no hurry for Scottish independence no hurry at all the SNP will do what is necessary when the time is right.
And then ,all of your lives will change.
England will be a very much smaller country and smaller power in the world once it is on its own.
The suspension of Parliament by a cabal of right wing fascists is what you would expect in a rogue Latin American state.
It is not democracy and if people have their parliament suspended then the people are entitled to pursue another route altogether.
In Scotland we have our own parliament capable and able to take over from a non functioning Westminster parliament.
Scottish MPs should walk out from their now locked seats in Westminst and the Scottish Government should vote to declare independence.
Ah but Willie, to be considered capable and able one must first exhibit willingness, and from somebody stepping back from the situation and no vested interest either way, I’m not seeing much of that.
Boris “Ask him about Danielle Fleet” Johnson has said that the suggestions that his motivation for seeking a prorogation of Parliament is a desire to force through a No Deal Brexit is “completely untrue”.
Such blatant and obvious lying is straight out of the Donald Trump playbook.
I should imagine that when Trump wakes up in a few hours’ time we can expect the deranged billionaire to put his oar in. That’s if the nutcase can manage to tweet when he’s not thinking about buying Greenland or firing nuclear warheads at hurricanes.
Here’s an interesting fact: John Bercow is a Privy Counsellor. Doesn’t that mean he has direct access to the monarch? He could ask the monarch to reopen Parliament tomorrow. Precedent says he can only do it if the prime minister asks him, but…sheesh! Look what the prime minister has been saying.
And Dominic Grieve is also a Privy Counsellor. So is Ian Blackford.
C’mon – get your a*ses up that Mall!
Good news: Jeremy Corbyn, who is also a Privy Counsellor, has requested a meeting with the monarch.
If the monarch supports Boris Johnson, what we need is a general strike.
Not a strike that drags on for ages, but a strike that brings the country to a standstill right now, forcing the Tories to choose between declaring war or leaving office. Bye bye monarchy too, at last.
Corbyn is a privy councillor, too.
Of course the revolting orange buffoon has tweeted:
Show this thread
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
59m
Would be very hard for Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of Britain’s Labour Party, to seek a no-confidence vote against New Prime Minister Boris Johnson, especially in light of the fact that Boris is exactly what the U.K. has been looking for, & will prove to be “a great one!” Love U.K.
Fascists everywhere you look!
If Queen Elizabeth II does not act now to ensure parliamentary democracy prevails, there is no sense in having her as a head of state. The monarchy will have been revealed to be absolutely useless.
In Italy, President Matella is trying to sort out the mess caused by Salvini’s withdrawal from the governing coalition. He is hearing all sides and will seek to find a democratic way forward. This is what the head of state is supposed to do in a time of democratic crisis. Sometimes things go wrong in democracies. The head of state is supposed to be there to step in, ensure stability and get democracy working again.
The Dutch King has stated many times that he sees his prime roll as guaranteeing democracy in the Netherlands. I’m not sure that the British monarchy are entirely sure of their democratic role.
Hopefully, what will emerge from this whole mess in the UK is a new constitution with proportional representation (at least in the lower house) and possibly a federal system that will give regions much greater say in the running of the country. As for the House of Lords, it is hard to imagine a more archaic institution. It should be replaced by an upper house/senate, possibly elected by the regions/states/provinces (as it is in the Netherlands and Germany and, slightly differently, in the US).
I am very puzzled that the UK does not have a clear separation of the executive branch and legislative branches of government as in other European countries and indeed the US.
And as for the monarchy. If it cannot act to ensure fair democratic processes and the primacy of parliament, it will have to go too!
“If Queen Elizabeth II does not act now to ensure parliamentary democracy prevails, there is no sense in having her as a head of state. The monarchy will have been revealed to be absolutely useless.”
Do you not grasp, half-a-looney that the whole point of constitutional monarchy is that the monarch has no power.
This dates to 1689 when parliament took effective control of the country. This prevents the country from being ruled by a dictator. The queen in effect has no power. Wikipedia:
“The monarch and their immediate family undertake various official, ceremonial, diplomatic and representational duties. As the monarchy is constitutional, the monarch is limited to non-partisan functions … Though the ultimate executive authority over the government is still formally by and through the monarch’s royal prerogative, these powers may only be used according to laws enacted in Parliament and, in practice, within the constraints of convention and precedent.”
For further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy
In other words: the monarchy is absolutely useless.
Why not get rid of the whole money-wasting institution and spend the money on the NHS?
The Queen does in fact still hold considerable sway over parliament. New laws are signed into being by her. She accepts resignations and appoints new prime ministers. I had hoped she would decline to honour Boris as PM, but her advisers are largely supplied by the government. Corbyn should obtain legal advice on making a counter request of the Queen, to call for Boris to resign, on the basis of the risk he poses to the unity of the United Kingdom, and the danger of harm to its citizens. The Queen’s first duty is to the sovereignty of the United Kingdom. And this is its hour of greatest need, for her to act as our Monarch, in our best interests as British citizens
Closing Parliament won’t make any difference; we won’t be leaving according to informed legal opinion https://www.foundrychambers.com/on-sunday-11-august-2019-rose-slowe-was-interviewed-by-richard-foster-on-bbc-radio-5-about-article-50-and-the-legality-of-a-no-deal-brexit/
I Read the Slowe arguments last March…
https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2019/03/19/no-deal-brexit-may-be-unlawful-a-view-from-rose-slowe/
… but have been puzzled by the deafening silence from other lawyers, such as Wolchover, or indeed any further comment or analysis form anywhere? Wonder why?
Sounds pretty definitive to me and the Westminster Parliament passed a motion on March 12 rejecting no deal. So I too am puzzled by the deafening silence. Could it be that Rose Slowe is a woman and some of the Eton schoolboys don’t think such opinions count, or that there really isn’t a legal framework to work with due to the lack of a proper constitution. There is a case before the Court of Sessions in Scotland so hopefully Johnson won’t get away with his games.
The Slowe opinion implies the no-deal threat is oxymoronic, much like its leading proponent Pfeffel: the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 requires parliamentary approval for any withdrawal agreement negotiated between HM Government and the European Union. The Act’s section 13 contains a set of mandatory procedures for Parliament’s approval to the various possible outcomes of the government’s negotiations with the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal)_Act_2018#Parliamentary_approval:_section_13
In contrast the Institute for Government states:-
“What happens if Parliament votes “no” to “no deal”? This is unclear. If Parliament were to vote “no” to “no deal”, that would bring to the fore legal and constitutional questions that so far have only been in the realm of speculation. As with a “no” vote on an exit deal, it could only return the Government to the negotiating table if EU leaders were also willing, and there was time for more negotiations.
If either of these conditions did not pertain, there is no obvious answer to the question of what “no” vote to “no deal” would mean. That would depend on what constitutes a revocation of an Article 50 notice in UK law, and whether unilateral revocation is possible in EU law. Both of those questions are unanswered. It may not, therefore, be in Parliament’s gift to stop the UK leaving without a deal, even if it notionally had a vote on the issue.”
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-and-brexit-deal
“Jo Swinson and others need to stop their caviling and get behind Jeremy Corbyn’s no confidence plans.”
So that’s what you want, I see. Why not have Jeremy Corbyn get behind Jo Swinson’s plans instead?
Because he has over 200 more MPs than she does.
He’s the leader of the opposition…
“Why not have Jeremy Corbyn get behind Jo Swinson’s plans instead?”
It’s because of ill informed and, to be frank, deranged thinking just like this from many members of the electorate that this country is in a complete f*cking mess. Half arsed opinions and ill informed delusional drivel and other nonsense is not a replacement for well informed, pragmatic political debate. unfortunately in the UK the majority of people seems to have been brainwashed to the point of absurdity, stupidity and downright idiocy. A shameful spectacle for the entire world to gaze upon in amazement and wonder at the precipitous decline of what was once a reasonably sane nation.
I agree, but it is funny to watch from the outside, especially when oneself lives in a true democracy.
Swinson wasn’t even the leader of her party at the last election, 300k members and 12.8 million voters gave Corbyn a mandate that she simply doesn’t have.
The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is that it was just a great big nationalist fantasy from beginning to end. Fantasies often end when they hit the brick wall of the real world.
I recommend you read this:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/08/27/the-oligarch-threat/
for a much wider perspective.
Scottish independence won’t prevent it.
Thanks for the link Ian. The article is certainly thought-provoking and makes for interesting – and frightening – reading. What chance do the little people have in the world that is being shaped by those kind of people? It makes me shudder.
Scottish independence doesn’t need a Netflix show
Like it or not, Sturgeon and the SNP have an obligation to act in the best interests of the Scottish people. As they are currently MPs, and we are in the UK, then it is incumbent on them to fight the British coup which is happening. That doesn’t preclude independence, but pretending, as you continually do, that we can escape the fallout from the coup through a quick fix independence is an attractive fantasy, and nothing more.
Stewart McDonald (SNP defence spokesman and Ukranian govt spokesman in the UK) strongly disagrees with you. He says any indyref in the near future would be “the height of irresponsibility” and goes on to blast ‘cybernats’ (perhaps including yourself Craig) as being “vile, obnoxious thugs…spreading poison and cynicism”.
https://sputniknews.com/amp/military/201908271076652122-integrity-initiative-political-parties-snp-uk/?__twitter_impression=true
Stewart McDonald is an eejit.
Stewart McDonald is a complete moron and if he has a single political bone in his body I’d wager that it wasn’t his. I have a catalogue of reasons to dismiss that uneducated windbag. If he was simply useless, he would be tolerable. He’s much worse than useless. He represents everything that is wrong with Sturgeon’s SNP.
“Stewart McDonald (SNP defence spokesman and Ukranian govt spokesman in the UK) ”
“Stewart McDonald is an eejit”
“Stewart McDonald is a complete moron and […] represents everything that is wrong with Sturgeon’s SNP”
LOLZ
Possibly the best thread ever on Craig’s blog.
While we are all attempting to find the moral high ground, do you favour a hard Scoxit or a soft Scoxit, with a backstop?
“the far right”? Oh pleeze!
They’ve been killing the disabled for years.
The ‘far right’? Step by step we move along the ‘right’ path – but we do not see it, do we?
Statement from Scottish Conservatives spokesperson; “Ruth Davidson is unavailable for comment today.” Well fuck me with a ragman’s bugle! Who saw that one coming.
The UK is now officially a tin pot dictatorship
The Scottish people sent Scottish MPs to Westminster to represent them. By suspending Parliament, Scottish MPs are deliberately being prevented from representing the Scottish people.
So…………where’s the EU when you need them? Where are the sanctions? Where are the condemnations?
Sturgeon should be on the steps of Bute House right now declaring UDI. She would have all the support in the world by doing so.
“Sturgeon should be on the steps of Bute House right now declaring UDI. She would have all the support in the world by doing so.”
All the support in the world? That would include inside Scotland from the police, the army, army veterans, and from the 63% of the Scottish population who voted in the most recent Holyrood election for other parties than the SNP. Outside Scotland it would include from at least four of the five UN veto countries which would all open full diplomatic relations with Scotland within hours, right? Meanwhile membership applications from the new state would happily be accepted, without any other members demurring, from the United Nations, the European Union, NATO, and the Council of Europe? And if a central bank could be cobbled together it would immediately be accepted as a member of the Bank of International Settlements?
Or what kind of “world” were you thinking of? Could you be more concrete? Can you for example name any UN members that in your opinion would grant de jure recognition, and any international bodies that you believe would accept membership applications, within say a week, if the leader of the aforementioned party which won 37% of the vote were to act as you suggest?
Craig Murray: “ The SNP needs to stop prattling on as if keeping the UK in the EU was the priority. No. The priority is Independence, and Independence Now. If the leadership of the SNP want a referendum, they should move now to hold it within a few months, this year. ”
Isn’t it totally invigorating and inspiring to see people speak plainly and honestly like that? I take my hat off to you, Craig, I really do.
I’m not even going to read the comments below. I know they’ll be dominated by the usual cowards who have pledged their souls and allegiance to making excuses and doing nothing.
I’m not with Nicola but I’d be willing to bet she’s sitting with advisors right now plotting the usual course to nowhere.
How did we end up with a leader who thinks you win independence by doing and saying nothing, eternally fearful that her opponents will accuse her of wanting the thing that’s most important? You don’t win people over to independence by pretending you don’t want independence.
As Craig understands, its time to move. There’s a potential window here. We have no idea how long it will last. You win independence by arguing for independence and it’s time to do that right now.
As I said yesterday, I’d rather lose a fight that I wanted to win than win a fight that means nothing to me. If Sturgeon doesn’t act decisively in the next few days, she should resign. Brexit is no longer our concern.
Well she was quite clear in her statement that if it goes ahead, democracy in the UK is dead, and the indy referendum will follow shortly. Which is about as good as you can get in the circumstances, despite the wild talk.
Correct Ian.Your two sentences say it all but so many folk don’t understand it or perhaps don’t want to.
“I’m not even going to read the comments below. I know they’ll be dominated by the usual cowards who have pledged their souls and allegiance to making excuses and doing nothing.”
Lovely! Anyone who doesn’t agree is a “coward”.
Yes, and wrong.
Hahaha….you said you weren’t going to read the comments! Knew you would.
Not since the Corn Laws has Parliament been so contemptuous of the people … and didn’t John Major prorogue Parliament in 1997 to cover up misdeeds, where were you then?
Major’s early prorogation in 1997 led to an unusually long period before the general election, namely 6 weeks and 1 days. That’s not at all what Boris “Ask him about Danielle Fleet” Johnson is seeking to achieve.
If there’s a general election 6 weeks from tomorrow there would still be 3 weeks left before 31 October.
Perfect! As previously suggested, the statutory period between the dissolution of Parliament for a General Election, and the election itself, is 25 days. *checks evil far-right Brexiters haven’t altered the number of days in a week*…looking good.
You helped him get there by giving him an alibi for leaking the Darroch’s memos, a serious crime.
It’s always difficult to work out the motives of a Tory, I initially suspected that May wanted to lose the 2017 election but in the end I concluded that she really was just power mad.
Would parliament really allow itself to be suspended under these conditions? To do so would pretty much show that parliament is not sovereign and furthermore that it is unnecessary.
If parliament fights this, by making its move on Brexit sooner, then BJ and the Tories get off scott free and recruit those leave voters who will be on the streets calling for the end of parliament.
Brexit has always been impossible, it’s a matter of who takes the blame and how long the game of chicken lasts (which is pretty much in the gift of the EU)
The reason for the drive-by-shooting of the 2017 election was to rid the controlled opposition of it’s Corbynite takeover – they failed miserably. You can be certain May did not ‘chose by herself after going for a walk with the birdies’.
The petition stating as follows:
***
“Do not prorogue Parliament
Parliament must not be prorogued or dissolved unless and until the Article 50 period has been sufficiently extended or the UK’s intention to withdraw from the EU has been cancelled.
***
has received 99000 signatures as I type (12.38pm). It’s currently getting about 3000 per minute.
It can hit several million signatures it will still not be democratic. Who are you to say we need to cancel article 50 ? Stop acting like remainers are the only people who are right. The remain camp have and would do anything to stop brexit including things which are percieved as unconstitutional. So stop being hypocritical and complaining and let the prime minister do the peoples bidding. Remainers don’t have a monopoly on inteligence it is time to face that you might be wrong.
You really should read things more closely.
@Steve – Can you countenance the idea that 52% of those who voted in the Brexit referendum may have been wrong?
EU membership wasn’t a problem for them. Most of the morons didn’t know the difference between the European Commission and the European Parliament. That’s not exactly made clear in the Sun. And in any case a straight banana tastes the same as a bent one. Those who want white power should say they want white power.
They don’t have had to be wrong. It was three years ago, the leave campaign admitted breaking the law, and most important of all, not a single person voted for no deal crash out, which was not on the ballot. You cannot pretend that everybody who voted leave voted for that. That is a lie, like 90% of the leave claims.
Not a single person voted for a deal either. It was not on the ballot.
“Let the government achieve what you say you want, but let it do it however it chooses” is seriously considered an attitude worthy of great respect?
Also missing from the ballot was the provision of free unicorns to the transgendered. The choice was in or out. Out won. Amusing to note that the SNP and Greens still present nationalism as uninformed fascism when it is expressed in England, but noble patriotism north of the border.
“It can hit several million signatures it will still not be democratic”
Why? Why is this vote not democratic?
Please explain?
Petitions have no legal or political value. They have no more importance attached to them than voting to see who gets kicked out of the jungle.
I remember when Lady Di died and people were queuing to write messages in books of condolences in the local co-op. I realised I was chosen by God that day to ridicule peasants.
“I realised I was chosen by God that day to ridicule peasants.”
So that is when it started.
“Officially”
What if I don’t recognise a ref at all? that was brought with no mandate? Or the rights for any mob to claim process shaped & enacted by an elite “legitimate” ?
Because I don’t. The people are being played, & the only legitimacy is what government proves to be so.
Cheers for the link.
237000 signatures at 2.01pm.
Why should you be surprised?
This is only what is to be expected of these freaks.
They are so overwhelmingly in favour of democracy when they get the result they want – if only be a questionable and miniscule majority – but completely lack any respect for democracy when it does not go their way.
Bert
“I hope the Remoaners are happy with themselves
Had they just allowed us to leave none of this would have happened. ”
You’re right instead of just facing economic oblivion, we’d now be living it.
“Hopefully Johnson’s new move will finally kick the SNP to act NOW and make that unnecessary.”
Yes, after this announcement by Johnson, Sturgeon should be focusing on a route out of the UK. This Wings article, which you’ve probably read agrees with you that Sturgeon should now be focusing on independence.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/coup-versus-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-2482653
They may be right-wing, but they are not racist, not with Javid and Patel (and Johnson himself) in their ranks
Exactly. Johnson’s record of public utterances suggest he’s probably the least racist person in the world, behind only Donald Trump.
He’s not racist.
He’s Johnsonist.
Boris Johnson has referred to black people as “piccaninnies” who have “watermelon smiles”. Please do not say he is not racist. The wretch should be in jail for inciting racial hatred. And exactly the same word was used in his famous “blood” speech by Enoch Powell, the hero of the Tory rank and file. Brexit is all about “Enoch was right”.