This article is probably unpopular. The point of this blog is not to make you agree, but to make you think; if I did not express views which are not the view of the majority, there would be no point in writing at all. This is not an applause seeking echo chamber of popular sentiment.
Boris Johnson has no more ardent political opponent than I. But some of the hysteria about him is overblown.
As a teenage delegate to a Liberal Party conference in 1976 (I think in Llandudno), I had to fend off the amorous advances of a politician who persisted even after I plainly told him I was not gay, and I ended up stabbing his wandering hand with the pin of my delegate’s badge, after which he went away. I regarded his behaviour as over drunken and over randy, but took the attitude then and now that humans are not perfect and inclined occasionally to fall prey to their basic instincts, especially when drinking. If we expected everyone to be perfect, we would live our entire lives in a state of disappointment. I expect a majority of sexually active adults have similar experiences at some time. I do not believe it healthy or sensible to elevate them to serious crimes.
(For the sake of clarity, I should add that I have never personally been accused of an unwanted physical advance).
I really do not care whether Boris Johnson squeezed Charlotte Edwards’ leg 20 years ago. I firmly believe women are every bit the equal of men, and I do not understand why it is somehow reckoned that Ms Edwards, and others in the same position, were unable to stab his hand with a fork, throw a drink in his face, or embarrass him by telling him clearly to stop. I do not accept the notion that difference of age and status between full adults makes firm rejection impossible – that thought did not cross my mind with the politician in Llandudno, who was a good deal older, more famous and wealthy than I, and in a position to further my political ambitions. Ms Edwards saying nothing at the time, saving it up for twenty years and then attempting to use the claim to cause major damage, appears to me behaviour as bad as the original.
I do realise that in this I have outlived the mores of the times. But no matter how fiercely I oppose a no deal Brexit – and I think it would be disastrous for every one but a few nasty financial speculators – I do not think the approach of throwing the kitchen sink of accusations against Boris Johnson is good for the long term health of politics. It also obscures with chaff the allegations of real wrongdoing, like directing public funds and assistance to the company of a woman with whom he was in a sexual relationship. That should be investigated. That is real wrongdoing.
Johnson’s arrogance before the Commons in refusing to apologise for the prorogation of parliament was deeply unpleasant, but I do not approve of the effort to delegitimise his use of language. Words like “surrender”, “betrayal” and “traitor” have centuries of political use behind them. Boris Johnson is as entitled to free speech as anyone else. It is perfectly legitimate for opponents to argue that his language is deliberately divisive and thus people ought to vote against him in the interests of harmony. The electorate can pay heed or not to such argument, as they see fit. But it is quite another thing to argue that such language should be excised from public life. Robust debate is an important aspect of free speech. Controlling the language of your opponents is the antithesis of democracy. I am firmly with John Stuart Mill on this one.
People were offended by Galileo and Darwin, by Gandhi, by Jesus and Mohammed. Causing offence is important to human development. Everyone is entitled to do it, even Boris Johnson.
Finally I had the misfortune to see Jess Phillips on BBC Breakfast TV yesterday morning and she gave, as an example of abuse of MPs the fact that every time she speaks about anti-semitism in the Labour Party she receives emails stating that she is exaggerating, or is a puppet of Israel. A great deal of what MPs plainly see as abusive online activity looks to me simply like people expressing their disagreement. People can be entirely right or entirely wrong in their views, but they still have a right to express them to Members of Parliament. I found Ms Phillips objection to people expressing disagreement deeply worrying.
I have no doubt MPs do receive death threats – I do myself sometimes, generally originating in Florida for some strange reason. But I do wonder how much exaggeration there is of this.
The Laura Kuenssberg case is seminal here. You may recall that 35,000 people signed a 38 Degrees petition calling for her removal for pro-Tory bias and after a major headline news campaign headed by the Guardian and BBC, claiming that the petition was full of abusive and misogynistic comments, 38 Degrees deleted the petition. However I went through all the comments personally and could only find one comment and a single related tweet which was in any way abusive or misogynistic. When I challenge 38 Degrees to produce the evidence of abuse, there was none. That was a very worrying example of the limiting of perfectly legitimate protest against Kuenssberg, on an excuse of “abusive social media” which was a lie.
There is insufficient plain speaking already in politics and the attempt to further contain and constrain, and limit political thought to acceptable channels and vocabulary, is worrying. Let Johnson say what he wills, and let the electorate judge that.
As for behaviour, I do not wish to see any further correspondence of the Overton window with sex negative feminism. I can personally think of one mutually fulfilling physical relationship in my own history, where the crossing of that difficult line from friendship to physical intimacy did indeed start with the squeeze of a leg under the table. The initiation of more intimate physical contact is the most critical point in the complex courtship rituals of developed human societies. To insist that verbal agreement must always be sought before a move to kiss or an exploratory caress of a leg or a shoulder, is a fundamental change in culture which I am not at all sure is desirable. The essential qualifier is of course that, if the other person either verbally or by action does not welcome the tentative first move, then the initiator must desist immediately. It is my own belief that sex-negative feminism seeks quite deliberately to invalidate perfectly normal heterosexual courtship and that the chattering classes have far too readily adopted this, in the interests of identity politics.
I am perfectly aware that what I have written will offend some pleasant people and is against current fashionable thinking. I am also well aware that less pleasant people will utterly misrepresent what I have written as a justification of sexual assault. I deplore entirely any non-consensual sexual activity forced on anyone, and I believe that the slightest indication of disapproval should lead to an instant stop. But to deny the existence of non-verbal communication, and make an issue of non-violent initiation of contact outside an erogenous zone, is to me not legitimate. I would also refer you to my last post, and the extraordinary difference in the treatment in these matters by the media and political classes purveying identity politics of those within the neo-liberal “centrist” consensus, like Bill Clinton and Brendan Cox, and those outside it, like Boris Johnson, Alex Salmond or Julian Assange. This is a misguided and an extraordinarily selective outrage.
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Kuennsberg’s pro-Tory bias has intensified since the Guardian sanctioned it. She is now worse than ever.
On LauraK – if anyone wants to know just how deeply the state and media are aligned across their worldwide empire – just do a study on her family background & career path.
It is quite something. That the beeb and the rest are the hindreds and thousands of the loyal servants and fully coordinated with tge 77th, is how THEY manage to stick together and believe they are not conspirators or remotely criminal. Like the addage thick as thieves.
Have you seen her on the BBC Brexitcast with Katya Adler, Chris Mason and Adam Fleming . They sit around a table and pontificate and giggle in equal measure.
It has been put onto Radio 5 Live as a podcast.
Does Kuenssberg receive an additional fee for these appearances?
‘Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg’s salary has for the first time overtaken that of North America Editor Jon Sopel – both received increases but Kuenssberg’s was larger, putting her on £250,000-£254,999. Her Brexitcast co-star Katya Adler also got a pay bump, going from £170,000-£179,999 to £205,000-£209,999.’
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-07-02/bbc-pay-2019-top-salaries-revealed/
This is the record on Company Check for her father, Nicholas Kuenssberg. OBE.
https://companycheck.co.uk/director/900010420/NICHOLAS-CHRISTOPHER-DWELLY-KUENSSBERG/companies
I have long given up the beeb propaganda direct from Langley via their hand picked and trained presstitutes and their poll tax.
Yes her daddy and his slave workers; her close family in the spooky world; even dodgier history and connection to Gordonstone …that favourite school of the nazsties… nuff said?
Keep looking, It’s a hoot! Everyone of that beeb hot house from the ancient Caroline and Kate to the deployed into the commercial broadcasting Peston and Mair – are multi millionaires now doing the bidding of their billionaire masters. That includes ALL of them.
Boris Johnson’s use of terms such as “Surrender Act” is obviously on the advice of Dominic Cummings. A “Downing Street source” has told the Financial Times that “MPs wouldn’t be able to leave a secure zone in SW1, they would be lynched. I think people would get killed.” (This is also referenced in the Sun.)
Who on earth else other than Cummings refers to the Whitehall-Westminster bubble as “SW1”? Caught yourself out, Eugenics Boy!
I should have made clear – the context in which
Dominic CummingsThe Unnamed Downing Street Source Who Likes to Say “SW1” iswhipping things up towards the carrying out ofsaying there would be lots of murders is that of a second Brexit referendum.Isn’t it strange how those who consider themselves part of some master race often appear the least able to propagate one?
Boris Johnson is worse than a dirty thigh-squeezing narcissist. He’s a pyromaniac. He’s much worse than Trump.
The rhetoric he’s using could lead to widespread civil unrest in the UK. He is trying to turn people against their elected representatives, democracy itself. Trump used “lock her up” against Clinton. Now the Tories are joking about putting Corbyn’s head in a noose.
He is also treating the EU as an enemy with language like “surrender” and “collaborators”. This will could lead to a sort of cold war between the EU and the UK. The EU will regard the UK as an economic adversary seeking to create a Singapore across the channel and undermine the European market. The EU27 will make things as difficult for the UK as they can.
When I was as school, we had several English teachers who said that “Hitler could never happen in Britain. The British would have laughed at Hitler”. Well history repeats in strange ways and places. The important thing is to learn from the mistakes that enabled Hitler to seize power while only being supported by 32% of the electorate.
Please opposition parties in the UK, wake up! Take back control and save democracy.
Both the Brexit Party and the EDL have networks (different kinds of networks) that could be put into action at short notice.
Everyone should remember that Nigel Farage has openly promised civil war in the event that Brexit is betrayed – and it would be idiotic for anyone to believe that he was engaging in harmless “martial metaphor” and “wind-up”.
N_
Wadr my friend, if Farage has openly threatened right wing terrorism he will be openly arrested if it happens.
The EU will follow due process.
Taking note of the Benn Law, and Irish objections to the Oaf’s NI border plans, they will refuse to negotiate with a PM who is acting in breach of the Law.
The EU will seek to negotiate with the Supreme Court which has proved its authority already and MPs will be offered the May withdrawal agreement for the 4th time, which will win.
Johnson has no authority because he is not elected and no power in the H o Commons. I would be very surprised if the Supreme Court annulled Johnson’s appointment as PM but if they did he and his staff would be escorted out of No 10 by armed police.
The whole point about Johnson is that he has no boundaries either domestic or work boundaries.
Britain will not allow itself to have a Hitler Coup , especially at a time that one is openly being threatened by an alcoholic financed by foreigners in the form of Farage.
Yawn. Can we get back to being Britain now , please? Yawn.
@Giyane – In the event that Brexit is “betrayed”, Farage has promised civil war and he has referred to rifle use at the front lines, not the use of terrorist tactics. Here he is doing it.
More recently, the Brexit party has been whipping up its target market up into expressing desires such as for murdering Jeremy Corbyn and starting a civil war. Here they are doing it in Blackpool.
Meanwhile Cummings (for who else refers to “SW1”) has told the media that people will be killed if there’s another Brexit referendum.
British soldiers are probably 80% or 90% in favour of a rock-hard Brexit.
N_
Nobody is above the Law. That is fascism.
As to SW1 as a former resident of SW1 I sometimes refer to this political place as SW1.
Farage wants rope to hang himself with, plenty of rope left in the cupboard for all oaves big and small.
Calm down. Ain’t go into happen. Yawn
“SW1” is rare terminology. I know of no other politician, adviser or other public figure who uses it as much as Eugenics Boy (not even Michael Gove), and the quote about “people gonna get killed” if there’s another referendum was attributed to “a Downing Street source”. It was obviously Cummings. Death is a powerful reference and when a possible near future is being framed in this way by Downing Street I wouldn’t yawn. Meanwhile at this very time, Boris Johnson is also putting it out in the Sun newspaper (the most important in the country) that a referendum rerun is one of the options he is weighing up.
He put it somewhat differently in his “conference” (more like a rally) speech. If anyone wants to read his words without hearing this irritating man’s voice or watching him, it’s here.
Here’s an extract:
“The NHS is holy to the people of this country because of the simple beauty of its principle
that it doesn’t matter who you are or where you come from
but when you are sick the whole country figuratively gathers at your bedside
and does everything it can to make you well again
and everybody pays to ensure that you have the best doctors and the best nurses and the most effective treatments known to medical science”.
Ah yes, that’s the Tory party we all know! How they all weep tears at Eton, in the golf club, at the Women’s Institute and on the polo field, when a “chav” gets lung cancer or a single mother on a council estate gets hepatitis! All the medics, they really care too! The Woolworth’s test, now often called the Primark test, is just a windup!
Funny how the vast majority of the bourgeoisie and practically everybody who can afford it goes private for their healthcare, isn’t it? Perhaps they can’t stand the “whole country” caring so much for them in the NHS and making sure they get “the best” medics and the “most effective” treatments. What utter sh*t talk this is. The country isn’t anything like how they are lyingly portraying it.
I wonder whether Boris Johnson has ever used the NHS in his entire life. He’d probably throw up at the thought of all the proles who’d touched the handles of the doors he was having to walk through.
N_
The reason this country is not going down the 3rd reich history trail:
Britain was defeated in Syria by Russian superior weapons. Wet pants johnson, so called because his penis is constantly oozing semen, rose to prominence because of his links to the failed MI6 plan to conquer the Middle East using fake jihadists which started under Oaf’s best friend and cuckolding partner David Cameron. All terms used in the literal ,domestic sense as well as the metaphorical , political one.
May needed a trusty liar to try one last ditch attempt to false flag Russia who had won.
Johnson has already died in the ditch of his own making in his pathetic fable of the Skripal poisoning. He can say with all honesty he’d rather die in a ditch because he already died in one.
British Conservatism is running scared because Trump’s too smart to be conned into WW3 with Russia when he might need his Russian contacts again. As Jesus said in the Gospel, ‘worldly people understand deals better than religious ones. Why not pay your debts and settle with the boss King?. The word for religion in Arabic means Deal. i.e the deal between the giver and taker of life and our short-lived spell on planet Earth.
The MI6 wonks have deep rooted contacts with the Islamist wonks who provoked Saddam into attacking the Kurds and who have been provoking Assad in Syria. Iraq back fired on them and Syria is still an un-exploded bomb when the public gets to know that USUKIS made this war , funded it and lost it lock stock and barrell to Putin.
Brexit is a useful distraction to the wheelchair confinement that MI6 is now in. If all had gone to plan their catamite islamists who’ve been selling their backsides for MI6 shafting would now be in Damascus punching beyond our reach etc i forget the expression.
Instead of that they’ve only got Boris’s part-time tart sitting in No 10 mopping up wasted semen from the new sofas and their man getting a police caution. Very disappointing.
The tough talk is not coming from Dominic Cummings. It is coming from the joke jihadists who came back from giving the Syrian people, Iraqi people, Yazidis, etc a good kicking.
The fascist right wing Islamists of the Muslim Brotherhood are teaching the Tories how to dictate, oppress, annoy the people. The Tories are their avid students both in indecencies like rape and also in theft, embezzlement, torture, and every other evil scam.
In this little game of spying and machismo both sides, Tory and Islamist, think they can get the better of the other before the party ends. Last time, 100 years ago in 1918 the Islamists lost palestine to the Zits, and the Brits lost their entire Empire, but the zits made a new one bigger than the British old one in the US. Undeterred the brits started working in earnest against Russia and succeeded in gaining Eastern Europe with a little help from Craig.
Tony Blair was told he had to consolidate the European acquisitions with free Movement , similar to the free movement the Queen signed for the former colonies of India. Recently President barzani of Kurdistan got an free movement deal with the UK for Kurdish citizaens to settle here in exchange for unlimited extraction of Kurdish oil. All of this Free movement is totally above board and legal, and continuing to happen.
Tell me please what exactly is going to happen if the deal to end all deals, brexit , fails to stop the uninterrupted , legal flow of thousands on Asians, Eastern Europeans and Kurdish which is happening now. Brexit cannot happen. Farage is fake. Johnson is fake.
brexit rage is all a smokescreen for Empire 2 by a handful of deluded , failed MI6 spies.
Nobody’s going to do a trade deal with perfidious Albion. Not going to happen.
i think craig was right when he predicted that in the end Brexit’s failure would be blamed on the intransigence of the EU . possibly Craig had inside Tory information.
there is absolutely no way that British politicians will allow britain to be seen shooting protestors like China yesterday. britain is hanging onto its legitimacy as a world leader by barer threads than the historic flags in St Pauls cathedral. Calm down. Ain’t gointo happen.
“there is absolutely no way that British politicians will allow britain to be seen shooting protestors like China yesterday”
Ask people in Derry and Ballymurphy in Belfast.
“I wonder whether Boris Johnson has ever used the NHS in his entire life.”
Why does Eton College insist on private accident insurance and encourage private medical insurance for its pupils? Is getting carted down the local horse’s piddle and waiting three hours on a trolley not good enough for them?
Imagine the Tories flying the flag of the NHS! Here is a point at which Labour can attack them, but it requires talking about class and calling the Tories brazen liars – and did I mention class? – so let’s see whether Labour have got the guts.
Tories have signalled that they will or may
* increase NHS spending (Big Pharma will like that one!)
* cut taxes, perhaps including
* by abolishing inheritance tax altogether (everyone leaving between mid six figures and low seven will love that, which means most of the caste that once upon a time was mostly “Blairite”: above mid seven figures nobody pays inheritance tax anyway).
That this bundle of policies would mean higher public borrowing, higher interest rates (not so great if your house is mortgaged), a cheaper currency and therefore higher import prices (not so great if you eat food) isn’t something that’s likely to be said by Labour in its election campaign.
All the “experts” and those who repeat their words are saying that the Tories will sacrifice seats to the LibDems and SNP while seeking to gain Northern English seats from Labour. Few are discussing what Labour might do. What Labour could do is say screw the Blairite vote – let it go LibDem if it wants to – and focus on winning back the UKIP vote. But now that the “kill the
*!*!*!*!*!*people who aren’t from here” muscles are getting tickled so much I doubt they’ll even try.Meanwhile, the Brexit Party’s blue is very close to the NHS’s “Aqua Blue”.
“civil war” racist pensioners versus the rest.
Get a grip
No I don’t grab ladies’ thighs under the table, if that’s what you mean.
OnlyHalfALooney
“Please opposition parties in the UK, wake up! Take back control and save democracy.”
I can therefore assume democracy is only democracy when the vote goes the way you want it to?
Please explain to me how having a PM who is openly attacking parliament is in any way democratic.
Democracy isn’t just about votes. It’s a system. The UK press used to go on and on about Wilders, le Pen, Salvini, Petry, Haider being an ultra-right threat. But none of these have in any way threatened their democratic systems as such. Now the UK has a PM who attempted to shut down parliament and is now whipping up public sentiment against MPs. And Johnson doesn’t even have a majority in the HoC. He was only elected by a small number of mostly aged Tory party members. Why is he even PM still?
What do you think the likes of Cummings and Johnson’s backers have in mind for democracy in the UK? Johnson’s only been PM for 2 months and his junta are already trampling all over the UK’s democratic traditions.
“Democracy isn’t just about votes. It’s a system. The UK press used to go on and on…”
An important part of a healthy, functioning democratic system is a fair and representative press. The UK press, although it is claimed to be a ‘free press’, possesses many of the characteristic of those in totalitarian regimes and is easily the biggest threat to democracy in the UK. It is the oligarch owned press who championed Brexit against the national interest and it is the oligarch owned press who have effectively destroyed a viable political opposition to the oligarchs’ puppets in government.
” Please explain to me how having a PM who is openly attacking parliament is in any way democratic.”
It seems perfectly reasonable to me. What would be dangerous, and undemocratic, is the prohibition of attacks on Parliament, which, throughout most of recorded history has acted with scandalous indifference to the interests of the people.
Did you not attack the Parliament which attacked Iraq or that which provoked and then smashed the Miners Strike?
The idea that the Parliamentary system, which almost everyone to the left of Arthur Deakin’s ghost understands is in urgent need of reform or replacement , should be above criticism is a nonsense.
Very little can be said for people like Cummings but setting the precedent of calling a spade a spade or even a bloody shovel is praiseworthy.
It was not the men of violent words who enabled Hitler but the prissy centrists and respectable bourgeoisie.
“What would be dangerous, and undemocratic, is the prohibition of attacks on Parliament..”
But Bevin, the PM represents the HoC. I know the UK’s system works differently from others, but in essence the HoC elects the PM (through a majority in the HoC usually after a general election).
And Johnson is not attacking specific parties (which would be normal albeit with a more respectful tone), he (and presumably Cummings) are attacking “parliament” as a whole, in other words parliament as an institution.
This is not about freedom of speech. Johnson can say what he likes, but not as PM.
@OnlyHalfALooney OnlyHalf?
‘A “Downing Street source” has told the Financial Times that “MPs wouldn’t be able to leave a secure zone in SW1, they would be lynched. I think people would get killed.”’
Because ordinary British people don’t feel at all strongly about Brexit, and don’t resent (at all) their MPs’ strenuous efforts to prevent it.
Tom Welsh
That was a sauce, silly. Otherwise known as a roue in London Town.
I bet that sauce will rue the day.
Sorry to take so long ketchup with your reply.
How secure will the streets and buildings in SW1 be when the Steiner cult acting under the name “Extinction Rebellion” has two weeks of actions planned in the area beginning next Monday, 7 October?
Insane cult leader Roger Hallam, who has called Heathrow expansion “a crime against humanity” (leading an easy life in his current incarnation, is he?), has been charged with conspiring to bring down that airport using drones. The rune loons may have something more planned for the current month than simply irritating drivers and car passengers by parking their posh arses on the tarmac.
Being a woman who was a teenage girl in Russia in the 1990xx I can say I got to know the darkest aspects of ‘basic instinct’ in males.
What I strongly disagree is the point that a woman may deal with unwelcomed physical contact, so it is OK to try.
For God’s sake, if I’m not going to flee and not going to tolerate, so there’s only one option, and why must it be my responsibility to escalate the case into an open conflict?
One of my former employers tried this trick on me, when I was in most vulnerable personal situation. Bastard. We were family friends, his wife was pregnant, I was working in his company and was greateful for having a job in the hardest time of my life.
Ok, I left and never returned to the workingplace.
What I’m trying to tell – some people are persistent until a woman says “f*ck you” directly in his face or kicks him in the balls. And the most disgusting about it, everything seems to be civilized untill the last moment, and we are not mentalists to foretell the future, and it is constant stress, and why on Earth should any woman be loaded with responsibility for the outcome of unwelcomed men’s gestures?
Tatyana
My wife works in the twilight Asian economy of £2.50 per hour in an Asian clothes shop rather than work in racist islamophobic Britain.
UK managers like to closet Muslim female staff with male colleagues in private rooms because they understand this is not allowed in our religion.
Men are what they are and that’s never going to change.
Giyane, I don’t agree on “Men are what they are and that’s never going to change”.
Men are different, I know quite a lot of decent men. My point is – you can never tell a decent man from undecent, until in this certain circumstance. Because it is choices we make, that is what makes us decent or undecent.
Well, we are lucky Mr. Trump shared his views with broad public 🙂 thanks him for that.
Actually, my point is objection to some comments on here, that men are imperfect and can sometimes fall with the basic instinct etc. It depends. As soon as we have no magic glass, so we don’t know if a man decent enough to control himself e.g. at the workingplace.
They may think a little tapping or squeezing or grabbing 🙂 is no harm to anyone. In my case, that kind of action harmed me much, I lost my job. More, it made me to chose if I ought to let his wife know, because we all were friends.
Maryanne was pregnant, and her elder son of her previous marriage was living in this new family. If I had let her know, she may have decided to divorce. It would ruin her life, in Russia of that time a single mom with a baby would hardly earn her living.
On the other hand, if she have decided to stay, it would hurt her and wound her pride and she would be totally morally ruined and still financially dependant of her bastard husband.
If I had told to my husband, he would shoot him down and go to prison.
I chose to be silent, and he made it clear it is exactly what he expected-to come dry out of the water and pretended there’s no harm and nothing to be upset about! I sacrificed my own pride and dignity and the feeling of what is justice. And I never expected I’d be making these choices.
So, dear men, before having your pleasure of squeezing or grabbing, please make sure the woman will be pleased, too 🙂
Tatyana
A couple of years ago I said a few words about Islam to a female chinese student in her room where i had fixed the shower. i got the feeling that she was preparing to kick me in the whatsits if i moved an inch towards her. So i said my piece and left. Nobody should be in any doubt that all of the spy networks in the world have more in common with eachother than mothers and their children. All this Trump stuff about Huawie being a security risk is tripe. NSA, GCHQ, Assad’s spy network , Putin , XI. They are all one. It took about 6 months before they left me alone and realised that the complaint she made was a false one.
Women who are innocent are the most vulnerable because they respond to sexy talk without knowing or understanding what is happening. women who’ve been assaulted before will kill rather than be assaulted a second time. Because of this i have explained so much about non-Muslim indecency to my thoroughly decent and Muslim lady wife. I felt i was corrupting a child, but Kurdish men would never dare to say or do anything wrong to a woman for fear of being killed by family, so my wife was vulnerable in this country.
Some of the Kurdish and Pakistani mosques run private spy networks on outsiders like me, a born Englishman. In hundreds of years the English jave lived next to the Muslims, the Muslims have never stretched out a welcoming hand to the british when the british went ‘native’ and converted to Islam. I get so fed up with being spied on that i now feed them stuff that will annoy them. It is so uncivilised to spy on people in their own private homes and bedrooms.
In these latter years of the world’s existence we have witnessed unbelievable sufferings inflicted on Muslims by Muslims. Syria Iraq Yemen. so long as Muslims are uncivilised enough to spy on eachother, God will never give them any peace. But for the time being your mother country has defeated these uncivilised people who do not represent Islam. These are the dogs britain wanted to unleash on Russia and China, and thanfully failed.
Dear Tatyana
So sorry you had to go through this. Thank you for this account. I think you make it clear why behaviour such as that by Boris Johnson should NEVER be condoned or excused.
So many men fail to see this, but that can change.
And you tolerate that do you?
Not sure what the question is but thanks for the chance to look at some very fine paintings anyway.
Totally agree. The writer has a different perspective being highly educated and valued by those around him. He had the confidence to openly reject something. For most women it is insidiously domineering and works from a position of considering you to be innately weaker and that your sexuality is the compensation for your weakness . Even the most intelligent and cunning women will often be drawn into this. I think this nasty thing happened and is the tip of the iceberg because Johnson is a nasty opportunist and victim blaming would suit his agenda very well.
I go to work for working, and I do not expect my boss to see me as a woman rather than an employee. I do not expect that my boss will estimate my sexuality, or pour his sexual desires on me (though I can to some extent turn it into a joke to let him and me ‘to save the face’ and make it crystal clear I do not allow this kind of relations at the same time).
And sure I expect my boss to keep his hands off and not use my birthday as a pretexts for ‘congratulations’ with hugs, and squeezing, and grabbing, and trying to kiss me in the lips, and dirty words, and that all.
With sex industry so highly developed today, it can satisfy all basic and non-basic instincts, well any a fantasy. He is not a poor man and surely can afford it.
I fail to understand why bringing instincts to workingplace? The only reason I can imagine is – he wants to feel like a sultan among his wives, and this is something about domination.
Yep, I guess I’d disagree with you Craig, mainly because of the imbalance in size, strength, and socialised aggression between your average male and female. It is different between male and male (and perhaps female and female, outside my experience).
The grey area is if you believe the other person is flirting with you. Then a light tap on the hand, a graze past the upper arm, would be the first initiation of physical contact to see if such contact is desirable or not. To jump straight in with a thigh squeeze! Jesus.
Craig P
Spot on.
I still cannot fathom the people on here vociferously defending the likes of Jess Phillips etc. Don’t spend years acting contemptibly and then be surprised when the public treat you with contempt. Most of the people condemning the use of incendiary language have been more than happy to spend the last 3 years writing breathless paragraphs about how the British public are one tabloid newspaper story away from being whipped into a murderous sieg heiling rage at any moment. As someone else said earlier in the thread, people are complicated, even the simple ones, and I think it takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume you can divine their motives so easily (cough… N).
Also, as the government has just published it’s backstop alternative proposals – before all the duty and excise experts lurking on here suddenly reveal themselves and start crowing about border posts and the troubles; it’s worth pointing out that the vast majority of customs clearance occurs away from borders in bonded warehouses, and this is the direction the industry is now preparing to head in across the board from what I’ve seen. The technological capability is there to make this a sensible proposition capable of mitigating a number of the EU/Remainers concerns RE Dover – Calais and ROI/NI border issues, though whether that will be understood through the media dirge of ‘Customs posts in Ireland?! The Troubles are back!!!!1111!!!!’ is another issue.
I agree with most Northern
Are you OK with the Irish people north and south are not asked whether they would like such an agreement? Should this diversion from an open and free economic framework between these two countries we have once divided, an internationally agreed treaty not be discussed with the Irish PM before its sprung on all of us them and him?
Johnson is banking on a dubious monetary agreement/relationship with the DUP and anybody suggesting we should just go ahead and trust this self appointed club to kick over what has worked for over 20 years, is seriously wrong.
Its not going to happen and both, NI and the Irish republic will not have it.
I’m talking from a Lexit point of view here, so please don’t confuse my stating that this is a technically possible proposal (which represents a step forward from the trench warfare/magical thinking attitudes exhibited by both sides previously) as support for the asset stripping loons currently in charge or any negative attitudes towards the GFA. I’m merely pointing out that this is at least feasible.
It would seem hypocritical for leave supporters to demand the right to self determination whilst simultaneously denying it to the people of the other nations that make up the union so I would consider myself broadly supportive of both Scottish independence and the possibility of a unified Ireland, if the peoples so desire. The situation is merely a further underscore of the desperate need for a more direct form of democracy in the UK. If the price of a more representative politics for real people is the final destruction of the ‘Great British’ union as we leave the EU then so be it.
N – I’m not entirely sure what it is your getting at here? I gather you seem to be under the impression the sky is going to fall in but please try to state your point clearly. Are you suggesting I’m believing BBC propaganda by relaying my relevant experience to the topic? I’m curious how many Rotterdam port workers you’ve surveyed to come to such a conclusion although it’s not really relevant to the larger point I was making. I’ve raised this example several times in similar discussions to this and I’m yet to have anybody really respond to it;
The leaked Yellowhammer document pointed to a worst case scenario of one to two days congestion in the event of no mitigation by government policy if we were to leave without a deal. Last year French customs officials at Calais decided to initiate a ‘work to rule’ strike (the name of the strike is something of a giveaway for how the system really works) with the aim of achieving a pay increase, ostensibly due to the extra work generated for them due to the possibility of Brexit. The subsequent delay to transit times at the border resulted in 6 to 7 days worth of congestion in France and Belgium. Vehicles which would normally make 2/3 day round trips were stuck on the mainland for over a week. Do you remember all those empty supermarket shelves and dead diabetics who couldn’t get their Insulin? No?
Again, cause it’s seemingly necessary to state, I am not a Tory supporter, just trying to point out that the media has a vested interest in making this sound as horrendous as possible and a bit of perspective can be a helpful thing.
Northern, you generally make far too much sense on these things which leaves you looking like an out of touch idealist. I don’t mean that as an insult. Brexit has made trophies of us all in one way or another.
You talk positively about the positive role of technology on the Irish border. I honestly don’t think anyone at the EU level will even contemplate the potential of that. The integrity of the EU single market is paramount and they will not contemplate anything that undermines it. That’s a political position, not an economic concern as it might seem.
I think the EU is ready to move on and I’m expecting them to drop a bombshell in the next day or two. By that I mean they must be tempted to say “don’t worry about the “surrender bill”, we aren’t going to grant an extension anyway…”
The EU is ready for the crash out, much more ready than we are. And I think there’s a case for saying it’s best way forward. After a year of dealing with the reality of “no deal”, the Tories will be discredited and Labour will be given the chance to take us back into the single market or something.
Is the EU really ready? UK shops are still full of EU goods, from tomatoes and bacon to cars and kitchens. And here in London it sometimes seems that every other worker is from the EU. All this represents revenue to the EU.And UK is second largest net contributor to EU budget. How are they going to make the shortfalls?
German car manufacturers have done extensive impact studies. They’re online for people like you and me to read. I’ve read some of them. That leaves you.
Anyway, the upshot of it all is that it’s bad for German car makers but not half as bad as some in the UK would have you believe.
One of the most perplexingly stupid claims made by the pro-Brexit camp was that Britain’s balance of trade deficit would somehow magically translate to a strength in the negotiations… the old “we buy more from them than they do from us” argument.
To be absolutely clear, the weakness of an economy cannot ever be magically transformed into a strength. In economics we call that sort of argument utter crap.
I think you’re right in your third paragraph, except that the EU27 bombshell might be that they will only grant an extension if Britain legislates to call a general election or referendum. Even if they don’t say that, a replacement government might call an election (either by repealing FTPA or with Tory support 🙂 ) and then request an extension which EU27 would grant.
How does the current offer undermine the integrity of the SM? It would leave NI in the SM but outside the CU, as Gibraltar is.
N :- “How does the current offer undermine the integrity of the SM?”
If there’s no meaningful border in Ireland after Brexit, it can only mean that a non-EU country (the U.K.) has been given unregulated free access to the single market.
We have been programmed to look at the backstop from a UK and Ireland perspective but the concern I have outlined above is actually more important to the EU and it’s members.
Well for example I have read that virtually the entire tomato crop of Murcia comes to the UK. And judging from my supermarket shelves quite a lot of the Dutch output too. What about Danish bacon? As for German cars, the first article I turned Jones’s this,: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/23/no-deal-brexit-will-have-seismic-impact-says-european-car-industry
Hatuey: “If there’s no meaningful border in Ireland after Brexit, it can only mean that a non-EU country (the U.K.) has been given unregulated free access to the single market.
We have been programmed to look at the backstop from a UK and Ireland perspective but the concern I have outlined above is actually more important to the EU and it’s members.”
Sure. And many assume too that Germany and France since 2016 or earlier have wanted Britain to stay in the EU but I think for many interests in those countries that isn’t so, not because of considerations of visible trade but in respect of the financial dirty doings of the City of London as perceived from the viewpoint of its main local competitor, Frankfurt. Which is not to say that Frankfurt is any cleaner, but the City has been trying to push in to the continent and also Frankfurt wouldn’t mind some of its money-laundering business when Britain collapses.
The current British offer would establish a meaningful border, albeit not mainly in the form of posts literally at the border. It’s not possible for NI to be outside the CU and there to be no meaningful border, however much the DUP love to have their cake and eat it, filling their pockets with money on the way to Calvinist heaven.
I have no knowledge of Frankfurt wishing to move into the offshore market. I think it’s unlikely. Holland, Luxembourg, France, and of course Switzerland are already embroiled. Ireland was too but as I understand it they’re cleaning it up.
Thanks Northern you made an amicable point and we.just have to see whether both sides.can live with Alexanders suggestions, as yet I can’t
Stormont will not even be consulted as it has been suspended since January 2017. The ‘people of NI’ have only the voice of the Eurosceptic DUP to represent them.
As for Jess Phillips here is Maria Miller rendering her speechless:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1183040/brexit-news-jess-phillips-boris-johnson-maria-miller-jo-cox-house-of-commons
Preventing (!) disruption to food and other imports isn’t only a technical issue and it can’t be achieved by the existence of technological capability however snazzy it might be, nor by the “I know how to do my job going forward” mentality of British officials and managers. Many of the wholesalers and distributors are based on the continent, consume little or no BBC propaganda, and don’t have exports to Britain as a major part of their business. Many working at the port of Rotterdam aren’t sanguine about the near future at all.
Northern
Only quite large businesses can operate TIR transport systems across international borders.
Of course these 20+ tonne vehicles are already doing that in the way you describe.
But what about me in my big car taking cheese to my customer across the border and the guy who asks for a lift . Boris Johnson is completely bonkers trying to take on the EU over the backstop. Ever so politely M.Barnier said he was prepared to listen, But French politicians understand village life and Johnson only understands landed gentry life. Posh life. Nothing Johnson could ever say to M.Barnier will ever convince him to give way to British demands.
There’s always an easy way and a hard way in life. Totally opposing your larger neighbour is like lying down on the road and asking the trucks to run you over. Why waste everybody’s time and energy being a dong?
“Boris Johnson is completely bonkers trying to take on the EU over the backstop.”
Don’t let Johnson’s bungling persona fool you he knows exactly what he’s doing. Johnson’s hoping his lame plan on the backstop will be thoroughly rejected, then he can say well I tried, but it’s all the fault of the EU that we’re leaving without a deal, which is Johnson’s real goal.
Meanwhile parliament is due to be prorogued shortly again.
Prorogation looks set to be from 8-14 October. Then there will be a monarchist fancy dress party on the 14th, an EU Council meeting from 17-18, and a great second half of October for the lawyers.
Note to Jeremy: call Jo Swinson’s bluff tonight and say you are proposing a public agreement by the Opposition parties as follows:
* no confidence motion in the Commons tomorrow
* Margaret Beckett as caretaker PM with no challenge to the Benn Act
* general election on specified date – best to make it 15 October, or 22 October if you want to keep it away from Sukkot, but in any case before 31 October just in case those who are controlling Boris Johnson have also got some clout in Malta and can stop an extension – or if you fancy a gamble you can go for a date in November and frame the timing as giving Beckett a “good reason for the extension” to tell EU27 about.
‘Handsy with SPADS’ was the most common criticism in the list of MPs misdemeanours, which circulated online. Some were worse, but the general predatory attitude of greedy kids in a sweet shop, manifested by so many Conservative MPs, probably comes down to the misogyny inculcated into them in the public schools where the sexual power of prefects was a hazard faced early in life
Surely it could never be a class matter? What’s your annual income?
Reported today: “A 40-year-old Remain voter was confirmed as the first person medically recognised to have suffered from mental illness brought on by Brexit.” …..not someone posting on here by any chance?
Spencer Eagle
Updated news would reveal that it was a pre-existing condition, which in fact made him vote “remain” in the first place.
honestly?
‘indeed start with the squeeze of a leg under the table. The initiation of more intimate physical contact is the most critical point in the complex courtship rituals of developed human societies. To insist that verbal agreement must always be sought before a move to kiss or an exploratory caress of a leg or a shoulder, is a fundamental change in culture which I am not at all sure is desirable.’
That may be a complete lack of understanding of how hetero flirting works, as what is really “forbidden” is *unwelcome* moves, rather than merely *nonverbal* moves. There are mountains of evidence of various types (including serious studies) that *welcome* physical moves with no prior verbal move are much enjoyed by women (even if for whatever reason they are not minded to follow through, which sometimes happens). Laws have been written that specifically use the “unwelcome” word or close concepts, to refer both to physical and verbal moves; in many jurisdictions asking “may I squeeze your leg” is as much a crime as squeezing the leg, if it is unwelcome.
The question is then what is welcome: and as to that there is often a deep silence, with the excuse that depends solely on the momentary feeling of a woman. But that usually is hypocrisy: there are quite a few serious studies that show that “unwelcome” means “made by an unattractive man” and that for average women it means that any move made by 70-80% of men is unwelcome.
Most men don’t realize how utterly revolted and even threatened many women feel when an unattractive man is sexually attracted to them and manifests it in any way, even indirect, and conversely how much and even desperately and directly they crave “welcome” moves.
That’s full of tautologies. You and your “serious” studies and your “evidence”! 🙂
Women like men to make the moves. But not every man. And not even every man who feels like it. Is there anyone who doesn’t know that?
“The question is then what is welcome: and as to that there is often a deep silence, with the excuse that depends solely on the momentary feeling of a woman”
A deep silence because the question is too stupid.
When you are 12 your ‘most sexiest’ dream may be just to dare to look into the boy’s eyes and perhaps to hold his hand. It is not the same when you are elder girl, again not the same when you are about 25 and think of having a family, again not the same when you’re 40 and I guess it will not be the same again later.
There is no universal answer what is a welcome move for 100% women to go further with 100% of men. If you ever find the solution, you’d become a billionaire 🙂
Hey Craig. Had that man got up and punched you in the face, you would have understood the real difference between your situation and Charlotte’s. Let’s not forget that a Tory recently grabbed a woman by the throat and ejected her from a venue and this went largely uncensored. You’re barking up the wrong tree here especially given that there are probably many more such incidents to come out. Tory bullies have no limits.
far worse than the throat, he grabbed her by the neck very close to a pressure point which would have made her left side collapse, but hey, the people like Alexander, he’s a hoot , a breath of fresh air.
If he with his band of self serving boys wins an election, we might as well don hobnail boots as we walk into ever increasing floods and coastal waters looking for food.
They are representing the wrong focus and we better wake up to it.
All Tories are racist bullies, Ros ?
Some obviously are and they are protected. Any other party would expel them. Wonder why they don’t/can’t
Lots of mixed up stuff here that doesn’t excuse Johnson and rather muddies the waters. It is the sense of entitlement that has caused these sexual assaults. It shouldn’t be conflated with other issues around antisemitism as I suspect many females working with MPs are subject to this vile behaviour. I believe the journalist and do not think that the time passed shows anything other than they can’t get away with stuff that was considered carte Blanche anymore. Attitudes change but memories of disgusting things linger. As a woman I also have many and being physically weaker is a great deterrent to sticking a pin in someone’s hand. Think it through and watch a woman being grabbed around the neck and chucked out of a venue. How would you suggest she dealt with it? Disgusting
Ros Thorpe
Do you really think parliament which is the ultimate public and customer services industry would attract people with this vile sense of entitlement. Banking is sufficiently corrupt.Teaching might attract paedophiles and foreign trade might give opportunities.
I would be completely appalled if MPs were nobbing their secretaries all day.instead of running the country.I’ve got quite plummy tones but they can be switched off. Since Johnson has become PM he has exaggerated his plums to the point of caricature, no doubt polished for luring stray Americans. Why does he have to sound like Malcolm Muggeridge when he’s talking about Irish border controls?
Really , is that sexy?
Everything about Boris is fake. The babbling eccentric genius routine will soon become very boring, even for the swinish multitude of idiotic peasants who convinced themselves a multimillionaire is their champion.
Run, run, run as fast as you can.
You’ll never catch me I’m the gingerbread man.
He trusted the fox to help his plan
And that was the end of the gingerbread man.
Most intelligent people wait their time for revenge. I would do the same too.
Why don’t you think you’re intelligent, Ros?
seems to me you are dancing along a pretty fine line.was trump ok to say he got to grab pussy.Johnson is also an obnoxious entitled spaffer that I would keep my distance from. Clearly the woman to whom the thigh belonged has waited an inordinately long time to reveal.All is politics.
I agree, it is all politics.
too much reasoning, whose leg, and which part of it, and whether it was squeezed at all, and how long ago that might have happened …
I remember a story, two drunk adults having consensual sex forgetting about the condom, and the girl had no complaints, but wished he passed a medical test, and the guy couldn’t do it, because he sheltered in the Embassy of Ecuador. And the case was very cleverly qualified as RAPE and this big word dragged all over the headlines.
too many generalizations and abstract philosophy and the search for motive, instead of simply providing facts. that’s what the two stories have in common.
Tatyana – it was rape. Of him by her. Her place, her booze, her bed, her preemptive return, her organising the trip, her chairing the conference. No way he freely consented.
As soon as the assumption of libidinous male energy is dropped, ritual and complexity emerge. Clearly she transgressed such norms as one might predict in relation to copping off on a distinguished international visitor. It’s not very rational this stuff. Your experience was rooted in patriarchy and I sympathise. But this same patriarchy is in the assumptions about Anna Arkin’s reported behaviour; whether she loosed a button on her blouse or he squeezed her thigh becomes irrelevant. He did not freely consent to her power play, and just as your lack of consent had dire consequences so is for Julian in his ‘consent’. My view therefore is that he was raped.
I think his sincere desire to accept the ‘hospitality’ and to spend time together in a way that was consentual by both him and his hostess, this his desire was used to morally rape him later. So, yes, he was raped, but in an unusual sense of this word.
I think Macron has already decided that UK remaining within, will keep disrupting moves for closer union and integration. BJ knows this and his spooks will have confirmed. I agree with what’s already been suggested here, that he will ask for an extension, knowing it will be rejected. Next installment will be Ireland and Scotland. Europe wants free of Trump. They can only do that together. I will support any grouping which counters to US/NATO war machine and rejects an attack on Iran. It was France that opposed the Attack on Iraq.
WhAt of a Gaelic Alliance? A slowly uniting Ireland, lets face it they are nearly there, Scotland and Wales, if it dares, with an open door for anyone up North who would like to join?
Who knows, Cornwall might consider such move, it has benefited much from being in the EU.?
“A slowly uniting Ireland, lets face it they are nearly there,”
Eh?
The modern attitude to sexual harassment is something I have recently found very enlightening. Some years ago a British female journalist reported sexual harassment by a politician and as part of her evidence cited the politician briefly touching her knee while they sat together in a bar.
That report made me think of the many times I had experienced similar events. From the biology teacher who placed her hand upon my shoulder and let her hair brush against my face when I was in my last year at school, to the many women who have put there hand on my forearm when speaking to me, to the many waitresses who have brushed their hips against me while serving meals.
I now realise that throughout my life I have been sexually harassed.
Tories always use power like a stranger sticking their tongue down your mouth in the underground threatening people with anxiety and uncertainty
I feel physically assaulted by Boris’ shenanigans in parliament and disregard for law.
In short Craig appears to be advocating sexual and social assault. Which is pretty weird thing for a whistleblower to do
John Manning
“I now realise that throughout my life I have been sexually harassed.”
Whilst not making light of genuine sexual assault/harrassment, I totally agree with everything you posted. From the time a girl at a school dance grabbed me by the bum, my first job, where there were certain offices you would dread going into (typing pool and comptometer office), don’t even mention the Christmas parties, where the married women were the worst (or best depending how you look at it).
I honestly don’t know how I survived it all!
Agreed, in entirety.
Frank
So you think a man should treat women , or men if you prefer, the same as fruit in the market, see it ;squeeze it ; eat it.
I guess Hillary Clinton of Lafarge de Concrete might agree with you.
Last night I dined with some girlfriends at a branch of London’s Ivy cafe. The waiters were so young and so impossibly handsome and so polite and so charming – ours had a divine broken French accent – and so smart in their well tailored black suits and white shirts, I declare I was quite distracted. You will all be relieved to hear I confined myself to looking and admiring, not touching. (Rolls eyes).
Did you tip him well, Mary?
Ogling is just stalking over a shorter distance and timeframe.
You should turn yourself in.
reminded me of a young and handsome guy who rented a room for a greengrocery next to my shop. He always had a queue of women who made unreasonably long purchases 🙂
He visited often for a cup of tea and for some help, such as using a printer or help with translation, and I admit, I also thought of making him compliments at first. But one day he came to discuss the grandiose business idea that he had invented. The guy found that fresh vegetables are extremely expensive in Sakhalin, and are cheap in our region, so he came up with and calculated a business plan, and asked me what are my thought on it.
Poor thing, he put transportation by trucks in the budget, he did not study well at school, and simply did not know that Sakhalin is an island. When he realized that vegetables in Sakhalin were expensive due to air delivery, he was so sincerely upset that I felt very sorry for him. After that, I decided not to compliment him.
Maybe he should have come up with a polytunnel idea for his business but not knowing he lived on an island seems remarkably untutored. Even I know that it is an island. Reminds me of some of our youth.In work situations about as much use as a chocolate barbie.
not THAT untutored 🙂 he intended to sell TO Sakhalin from our region near the Black Sea.
Nevertheless, Sakhalin is also our country, and I supposed we all study it at the geography lessons. And I wonder how he managed to know how much kilometers it is away without noticing it is an island.
@ Mary Paul
Were you wearing that hat?
According to the catholic church you have committed a sin.
Mary Pau! So you didn’t mind them all coming from the EU this time…your comment previously “every other worker in London seems to be from EU”
it does not follow, from admiring a fetching specimen of manhood from another country, that I think the entire population of that country should have freedom of movement into the UK…….
Mary Pau!
Well you might need to look somewhere else for a bit of unfettered admiration for the opposite sex, as the not so Priti Patel the daughter of Ugandan immigrants who fled to the UK in fear of Idi Amin’s anti-Asian attitude, will end free movement in the UK on November 1st 2019.
Placido’s ‘urges’ got the better of him. Now he has been dropped and booking cancelled.
‘According to an August report by AP, 20 women – among them singers, dancers, and colleagues of Domingo – claimed that the Spanish singer inappropriately touched, kissed and otherwise harassed them, and pressured some into sexual relationships. The allegations are as of yet unproven, and all but two of the women chose to stay anonymous.
LA Opera had opened an internal investigation into the allegations. Domingo denies any wrongdoing, and insists that all of his past sexual encounters were consensual. The septuagenarian tenor slammed the #MeToo-era “climate in which people are condemned without due process.’
He doth complain too much.
https://www.rt.com/news/470077-placido-domingo-quits-los-angeles/
The Good Friday Agreement was maybe intended to keep Northern Ireland in Britain’s orbit without admitting to Britain’s hand in colonial terrorism there.
It was an act of ” fuck the EU ” significance that Johnson jettisoned his majority by sacking wets in his own party and thereby draining the leverage of the DUP. Craig has already pointed out the constitutional problem of Johnson becoming PM without a majority. His own actions stuck two fingers up to the monarchy.
I don’t believe Britain is remotely interested in retaining Northern Ireland except in the sense of the Falklands, to stop it being united with its obvious neighbour and for future exploitation of resources.
It is utterly sickening to hear the disuniting Tory Party proclaiming itself as both Uniters of the Kingdom as well as uniters of the country.
Cowpats. The ghastly drawl of Oaf Johnson talking about England’s colonies gives away the truth that he needs a footstool and a headrest to relax with from the heavy duties of pretending to stiĺl be an Empire.
A dream consisting of avdwindling stock of pet criminal colonials in Africa and a mercenary army of terrorists in the Middle East.. That arrogant drawl last night sent two fingers up to M.Barnier and two fingers on his other hand to his Irish Colony.
Meanwhile Gove’s contrived West Country tones yokelized the debate as if to say to the EU that nobody is available to talk with you.
The EU is not going cry over spilt milk.if Britain doesn’t want a deal, why should the EU go round mopping up British lack of responsibility.
Boris Johnson thinks loving bonking European women is the same as loving the EU. He put his microphone down his trousers when he intoned those pernicious words of family fraternity
“The EU is not going cry over spilt milk.if Britain doesn’t want a deal, why should the EU go round mopping up British lack of responsibility.”
It’s all gone very calm. And have you noticed how far the tide has gone out? I’ve never seen it go out so far.
Where were you when you heard the news? There will not be any more extensions…
“Where were you when you heard the news? There will not be any more extensions…”
If Johnson asks the EU, of which he’s adamant he wont, even though he’s going through the motions pretending to be seeking a deal to appease the remainers.
But if he did ask for an extension, in my opinion the EU would grant one, from what I’ve read only Macron of France is at the end of his tethers with the British government, though others may follow.
Each of the 27 countries has a veto over granting an extension, and while Romania or Croatia could be to STFU that is not true of France.
Why would EU27 grant a third extension without first knowing Britain had legislated to hold a general election or referendum?
Hilarious that those middle class wankers at XR couldnae find anyone strong enough to handle a firehose. Perhaps the Revolution WILL be televised, only as a six part surrealist comedy.
“Why would EU27 grant a third extension without first knowing Britain had legislated to hold a general election or referendum?”
In the hope that somehow the UK might remain in the EU.
Oh. Is Craig taking bets on his predictions being right? Looks like Dad’s army wont be needed after all
Such fun to see the stenographers run their “Johnson’s alternative to Backstop” headlines. Yeah well, a hard border is an “alternative” I suppose. Unitary standards on manufactured goods and farm products is just a side dish, Customs tariffs is the main course.
J. R-M has stated that the UK will not impose tariffs on EU imports, so “honesty box” Customs posts set 5 miles inside Ulster would work at least in the short term. The Republic however is obligated to conduct country of origin checks and impose tariffs (where appropriate) on goods entering from the UK from day one of the UK signing a Free trade deal with any state outwith the EU (notably the US).
Think about the border as a geometric model. The Customs posts will have to be on the border on every road capable of carrying HGV traffic (Brussels and the WTO will likely ignore Transit van scale smuggling). If the Republic were to step their Customs posts back from the border, any number of HGV capable side roads would be available to by-pass Customs checks, rendering the border laughably porous.
This is a misunderstanding of how customs actually functions. I’d be surprised if even 1% of arriving freight is physically examined. By the standards you’ve set in your post, virtually every international land border is laughably porous.
So the Lib/Dems, would rather a no deal Brexit than have Jeremy Corbyn as PM, said Jamie Stone, a Scottish Lib/Dem branch MP.
We also know that Swinson is for want of a better word enabling Johnson, having had the taste of serving as a minister under the Tories, it would appear she’s hoping something similar might be in the pipeline come a no deal Brexit and possibly a Johnson victory in a GE.
Meanwhile as Johnson compares Corbyn to a former Russian leader (and not in a good way) Konstantin Chernenko, the British minister for exiting the EU James Duddridge has conveniently cancelled his Q&A session at Holyrood to dodge difficult posers on Brexit. Meaning Holyrood is, as usual, in the dark as to what’s going on with regards to a EU deal or a disastrous no deal Brexit.
You can’t complain now about being kept waiting, RoS. You loyally supported all this when May humiliated your leader around 3 years ago.
And now everybody sees it as I did then, an illogical waste of time imposed on us by the British state.
I’ve been putting things together in the last few days and am now sure that I know what is going on with Salmond and what Wings has hinted at. It isn’t good.
Instead of pressing for independence when the time was right 3 years ago… well, easier to neutralise those who were pressuring you. It helps if you have a little dirt on someone, right? Something you could dig up from the past.
That’s friendship for you.
The really annoying thing is that May was incredibly weak when you think about it, especially after ‘her’ General Election. By then the damage was done though, the SNP had accepted and committed to the illogical “wait and see how Brexit pans out” ploy.
And now here we are with nothing. A great leader’s reputation destroyed, a party about to implode and destroy itself. For what? A few baby boxes and a handful of votes from the LGBT community…
It feels like we’ve been on a ghost train for the last 3 years, going around and around, and it isn’t even scary any more, just annoying. Every now and then the train driver pops up with her little cute uniform and tells us to keep the noise down.
“Are we there yet?”
Are we fuck.
You missed out her outfits, and I’m with Nicola slogan, the things that really matter to you.
Lets wait and see shall we? On how things pan out there’s too many punters out there relying on their crystal balls and a few blog hosts for predictions.
Waiting and seeing requires a crystal ball too. Maybe you missed that class.
Nicola Sturgeon had a dig at her prevaricating over Corbyn as interim PM on Peston. The LibDems are woeful under Swinson, she really is next to useless as a leader.
DebO
As in earwig OSwindon is a necessary and permanently available shoe horn for Tory power. Principles never put them off before. You’ve heard of socialism for bankers. Swinson is a Backstop for Tories, enabling them to stay in power for evermore..You could put a yellow wine gum as the head of the Liberals and it would serve the same function as her.
Spellcheck doesn’t like Swinson
It always changes it back. Try once more.
The old saying – Vote LD. Get a Tory.
The Lib Dems have gone down hill ever since Charles Kennedy died.
Craig, you were right, your views have been controversial, judging by the readers comments, which I have read up to and including those by Tatyana at 16.31, who seems to be incredibly level headed.
As I see it the problem with what you have said is that is spans too great an area to ever reach a sane consensus, as I understand it the main points you raised concern whether feminism gone too far and what are the limits of free speech are. All this stemming from the problems with having, at least, two opinionated male chauvinists in prominent public office: namely Trump and Johnson.
The limit to free speech is whether it is anyone’s right to shout fire in a crowded theatre. Obviously not.
Inflammatory hate speech is something different, is rightly condemned and mostly illegal.
In the end it seems to come down to deciding which words are legitimate or not, none of us likes to be pulled up by our unfortunate or clumsy usage. The law intervenes in these matters usually in an awkward way, satisfying no one and we end up with so-called safe spaces that are anything but spaces for the free exchange of views.
Feminism is a whole other issue and comes from the perfectly rational view that women should have the same life chances as men and not be treated as second class citizens. The nitty-gritty of this argument circles around wage and employment chances on the one hand and a culture that generally excludes women from high profile positions. Obviously this has changed over time but the progress has been painfully slow.
I’m inclined to think that there is no essential human nature that prevents us from achieving equality between the sexes, the debate about how this might come about is what we are mired in now. It is unfortunate that so many ways to sabotage progress have been facilitated by actors with short term goals, hell bent on maximising their own life chances at the expense of others. It looks for all the world like class warfare.
I think it best not to mention Brexit at all here, it is what it is, relax and watch the flashing lights.
Boris Johnson says that the new arrangement ‘by consensus’ has to be ratified by Stormont which has not been sitting since January 2017 and there are no immediate plans to resolve the issue of corruption that led to the impasse and paralysis. So what this effectively means is that his proposal is totally worthless.
Apparently, the DUP MPs in Westminster were not in attendance at the debate in parliament today.
It doesn’t matter, the EU and Ireland have already rejected the ridiculous plan.
I think the whole thing is a ploy to keep the HoC from possibly deposing Johnson in the next few days because “negotiations are underway”. Only possibly of course, because Swinson seems to think she has some claim to power.
Abuse of power is very much a Tory thing, from voting for wars, to killing off poor people by leaving them totally destitute, to grabbing attractive females or ambitious young men. Call it out for what it is. Name and shame them. Remind them that any unwanted physical contact is actually common assault. Survival is always the number one priority and yes, defence against future attacks does make the thoughts turn to Mrs Bobbit and her unusual response….
“Abuse of power is very much a Tory thing, from voting for wars,..”
I would agree with you if we ignore the most notorious cases of Blair’s wars.
BLiar was/is a red Tory.
The GFA appears to have been thin on the ground about freedom of movements and open borders because it never contemplated for one moment that this was an issue as it referred to the EU laws where these were concerned. It seems that the GFA will have to be rewritten post Brexit to fill in these gaps.
SA
The intention of the GFA is abundantly clear ,
to remove all government actors from hindering normal life.
British army officer in Ireland:
” What are those things over there? ”
” People , Sir ”
” No they’re not people. Shoot them any way just to be sure. “.
How about Trump’s suggestion for dealing with migrants? Shoot them in the legs. IDF style presumably.
Donald Trump ‘suggested shooting migrants in the legs’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49901878
What evil.
But you preferred Trump to his opponent, remember. So he’s there with your support.
I regret that I now think Boris will get what he wants – a no-deal Brexit, without breaking the law. Quite simply, he will in a deniable way persuade any right-wing EU member government he likes, to veto his request for an extension. Then he can cheerfully ask for it, saying openly that in his view it is bound to be rejected, which it will be, and we’ll leave the EU without a deal on 31st October, which should satisfy Brexiters at least. (Assuming that there isn’t a successful no-confidence motion, general election, and new government which could prevail on Europe to wait for a second referendum – and all before the end of the month. Not too likely IMHO).
It may take at least a year to convince the piublic in general, that we haven’t entered the Golden Age that Boris & Co. promised.
Then people who wish can start a Rejoin movement …
Quite simply, he will in a deniable way persuade any right-wing EU member government he likes, to veto his request for an extension.
Which right wing government? Poland, Hungary, etc. all have lots of citizens who work in the UK (and many send money home). None of them could afford to be seen to veto an extension or facilitate Brexit.
The most likely country to veto is France, possibly supported by the Netherlands. Both Macron and Rutte think there’s no point in granting an extension just to carry on this whole futile rigmarole.
Unless there is a new (caretaker) PM or a plan for a second referendum, there is no real reason for the EU to grant an extension.
“Quite simply, he will in a deniable way persuade any right-wing EU member government he likes, to veto his request for an extension.”
That is true in theory, but I doubt if it is in practice. No EU state has broken ranks yet, in spite of all the British efforts to do separate side deals. It seems like every few weeks, over the whole three years since the referendum, that there was another attempt by yet another conservative government, which was highly lauded by the British media as imminent victory for Britain. All failed because EU states know on which side their bread is buttered.
I can’t see it being different here. What is not yet certain is what the EU reaction to Johnson’s plan is going to be, as they don’t want to give way, and don’t want to be labelled as responsible.
Nobody could possibly have predicted that his would start a bitter civil war. Nobody it seems but Tony Blair. On the other hand in Iraq he was using his blind eye and blind ear.
Same as johnson today.
This is direct rule from Washington.
We know where this road goes because we travelled here before
Not bad but it wouldn’t happen like this: “he will in a deniable way persuade any right-wing EU member government he likes, to veto his request for an extension.”
If that was likely, the EU negotiating team would simply deny the request for an extension rather than do anything to exacerbate differences amongst member states. Risks for the UK in the approach you suggest here include facing very hostile trade negotiators later on.
The Germans and the French are prepared for a crash out. People misunderstand what that means. It has as much to do with their expectations than the practicalities of managing trucks etc.
The French have been quite clear; and think they can cash in on the situation by securing a greater share of the finance and insurance sectors.
Germany will be looking at ways of raising NTBs and targeting British manufactured cars amongst other things, if the UK raises tariffs on German cars. I forget the exact year, I think it was 2012 or 2013, but there was a time recently when Britain was exporting more cars than Germany.
As I said, they’re prepared.
Actually I wasn’t talking about the “favour” being asked for openly. The EU authorities as a whole e.g. Juncker, may well be the “front” for refusing an extension.
The EU doesn’t need a “front”. The EU27 and EP have just had enough of the whole business. Of course, they would still prefer a withdrawal agreement, but there has to be a realistic prospect of this actually happening. Bar the HoC bringing down Johnson’s government and installing a caretaker PM next week, there is no realistic prospect of anything except the UK wasting the EU’s time.
The EU27 countries are far better prepared for a no-deal Brexit than the UK. It is not a big worry any more.
For example, the Port of Rotterdam here:
https://www.portbase.com/en/brexit/
What is more the influx of British investments to the Netherlands soared to 80 billion euros in 2018. (More realistically 50 billion due to a one-off event, but still a huge sum.)
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/09/british-investments-in-the-netherlands-soar-as-brexit-deadline-nears/
Of course, EU27 countries will suffer too, but the movement of companies and capital from the UK to the EU will soften the blow.
A TV report interviewed a Dutch carpet manufacturer that sells lots of carpets in the UK. The owner had worked everything out and the biggest risk was not customs formalities, import duties or transport problems (the company has stockpiled products in the UK to prepare), or even UK competitors (the raw materials would be subject to import duties too). The biggest risk was a dramatic fall in the pound (more expensive carpets in the UK in general, so less sales) and the risk of an economic recession in the UK.
Not that this has much to do with (complaints about) Johnson’s thigh grabbing habits…
Look, can we just get to the armed insurrection already? Jeez….
George Burns
Trump chose Johnson because he knew he was a total Oaf who would start a civil war.
I studied Latin and Greek at school so I do know it equips you to be a total wander and do fuck all. Whatever I know now I learned later.
The Oaf has dedicated his post-Classical education in perfecting the silent thigh grope and squeezing money out of Russian billionaires. Blair was vastly more intelligent and vastly more human than the Oaf will ever be , poor dear.
And yet both have fallen into the sticky fly-trap of making themselves useful to an American president. There but for fortune go you or I.
If we were in their shoes , we might think it was a good idea.
Unfortunately both Blair and now Johnson have dismantled all the checks and balances on power which are supposed to regulate over excited egos of elected politicians.
So the answer to your question is, not long to wait now I fear
“And yet both have fallen into the sticky fly-trap of making themselves useful to an American president. ”
Isn’t that a trait set in stone for a British PM to kiss the arse of a US president. Johnson a self serving megalomaniac, is just following tradition.
It’s because they can’t be sure Jeremy Corbyn will do the same that they are so set against him. British PMs must tailor British foreign and economic policy to suit the Empire, or they don’t become PM.
giyane
“Trump chose Johnson because he knew he was a total Oaf who would start a civil war.”
“Blair was vastly more intelligent and vastly more human”
Do you ever stop to think about the ridiculous things you post? Bliar – human, really the man responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Middle East.
As for Trump chose Johnson – they are both two reckless idiots.
If I had been routinely invaded by a constant group of opinionated ner-do-wells, hangers-on and those with a misguided sense of entitlement I would just throw them all out – go for it Craig
Jenny
So would I ?1?
Johnson, Corbyn et al this morning in the HoC.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-10-03/debates/585F872D-9372-4448-A32F-5CEC0FD49FB7/BrexitNegotiations
2 hrs’ worth 11.35am – 1.31pm
Craig writes: The Laura Kuenssberg case is seminal here.
Somewhat unfortunate choice of vocabulary in the context.
Look what I’ve found…
The Benn Act requires that if by 19 October the British Parliament has not ageed either to proceed with No Deal or to proceed with an agreement that has been “concluded (…) with the European Union under Article 50(2)”, then the prime minister must request an extension.
What do the words I’ve put in bold mean? We can look at Article 50(2) to find out:
“2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.”
So contrary to what many politicians and journalists are saying, Boris Johnson CANNOT avoid requesting an extension by going to the EU Council meeting on 17-18 October, reaching an agreement with EU27, bringing it to the House of Commons on Monday 21 October and getting a majority of MPs to vote in favour of it.
That’s what the entire MSM are saying, and it’s wrong.
The Benn Act refers to the an agreement having to be “concluded” under Article 50, and Article 50 specifically says that before it is “concluded” an agreement MUST be consented to by the EU Parliament.
The EU Parliament will next sit on 9-10 October and then on 21-24 October. So unless EU Council President Donald Tusk and EU Parliament President David Sassoli go to the Vatican and ask Pope Francis for a deprorogation order (sorry – that’s a joke for the benefit of any DUP types reading this)…I mean to say that unless either the EU Council or the EU Parliament CHANGE their schedule (which is highly unlikely given that in both cases 28 states are involved), then Boris Johnson cannot possibly achieve what he has to achieve by 19 October in order to avoid requesting an extension. Therefore he might as well request one now. Screw the theatre of it all.
I suspect Dominic Grieve understands all the above and more, so I don’t think the wording of the Benn Act resulted from everybody missing it.
What games are afoot, who knows? (Nobody has yet properly explained the government’s mysterious “failure to provide tellers” for the Kinnock amendment to the Benn Act. I note in passing that Stephen Kinnock is a man who knows both the EU Commission and MI6 well, having been vice-president of the former and director of the St Petersburg office of the British Council, a front for the latter.) But even if the EU Council meeting ends on 18 October with the representatives of all the other 27 member states hoisting Boris Johnson on to their shoulders and singing “For He’s a Jolly Good Fellow” before breaking into a rousing rendition of the Eton Boating Song, to be followed by all the ladies present offering him a feel of their upper thighs, the legal position at the end of Saturday 19 October is extremely likely to be that the British prime minister MUST according to British law request an extension.
“the legal position at the end of Saturday 19 October is extremely likely to be that the British prime minister MUST according to British law request an extension.”
It may well be the law, of which Cox, Duddridge and Johnson have all said they will comply with come the time. However I’m pretty sure Johnson knows fine well if he complies, and asks for the extension, of which he said I’d rather be dead in a ditch, then the Tories in my opinion would lose a following GE.
I say that because I think those who voted to leave regardless of party, will vote for Johnson ergo the Tories in a GE. However if he goes to Brussells cap-in-hand for an extension, the voters will feel betrayed and the Tories will lose badly. Enter Farage and UKIP to mop up the substantial vote.
So come hell or high water Johnson will be attempting to get over the deadline of the 31st of October without asking for an extension.
In addition Johnson’s hedge fund buddies who’ve staked a fortune on a no deal, will in my opinion have given Johnson a can’t refuse incentive to find a way around asking for an extension with a view to a no deal.
I believe that if the GE takes place after a No-Deal Brexit, the Tories will also lose. People are not going to be very happy with the effects on them. However hard the Yellowhammer teams have worked, the effects can only be minimised to a degree.
So Johnson is a bit stuck, isn’t he? And he can’t decide the date of the election himself.
The Hungarian ambassador and foreign minister seem to have attended an emergency meeting of the British cabinet this morning. To confirm: the foreign minister Péter Szijjártó is in Viktor Orban’s party Fidesz.
And Tory MP’s visiting Poland….
Jeremy Corbyn could ask John Bercow to require that Boris Johnson make a statement to the Commons about the meeting with the Hungarian representatives. If what we suspect is true, Johnson would surely be in contempt of Parliament.
As for those Tory MPs, isn’t there a word for cooperating with a foreign government in an effort to scupper what the British government is legally obliged to seek in its relationship with that government? How can that not be treason?
If Boris Johnson wishes to take the line that “I am only supposed to send the letter containing the request, not to abstain from asking the other side through other channels to turn the request down” – let’s just say I wouldn’t want to have to explain my actions in such a way in front of a judge.
No doubt the EU will have seen about the Hungarian presence too, and there will be internal EU “discussions” about it. When secret collusion is going on, it’s better not to do it in front of journalists.
On top of all this, the government has said Boris Johnson “intends” to ask for a prorogation between 8 and 14 October. But even if that didn’t happen, it would be impossible for a withdrawal agreement to be “concluded” in the meaning of Article 50 and therefore in the meaning of the Benn Act by the time of the Benn Act’s deadline, 19 October. Even if Britgov and the EU Council reach agreement at the Brussels summit, the agreement could not be concluded by 19 October unless the EU Parliament were to change its sitting dates, which it won’t. Of course if there is an agreement at the summit (which if it happens would come late at night on 18-19) it’s possible for Parliament to amend or repeal the Benn Act before midnight at the end of 19 October, but…seriously? Risk No Deal on the assumption that the EU Parliament will rubber stamp? It reminds me of the old saying that you should never trust a copper because you never know when he might go straight. By that time the London Assembly may have issued an order for Boris Johnson to supply documents or attend to be questioned, and the Commons also has two outstanding matters against Eugenics Cummings. Jeremy and Seumas need to mete out some surprise chops to Tory kidneys.
They’ve been targeting protected EU produce likes cheese etc. since Trump became president. And they want to be able to call their whiskey “whisky” too, regardless of Brexit.