It is very difficult to collect my thoughts into something coherent after four hours sleep in the last 48 hours, but these are heads of key issues to be developed later.
I have no doubt that the Johnson government will very quickly become the most unpopular in UK political history. The ultra-hard Brexit he is pushing will not be the panacea which the deluded anticipate. It will have a negative economic impact felt most keenly in the remaining industry of the Midlands and North East of England. Deregulation will worsen conditions for those fortunate enough to have employment, as will further benefits squeezes. Immigration will not in practice reduce; what will reduce are the rights and conditions for the immigrants.
Decaying, left-behind towns will moulder further. The fishing industry will very quickly be sold down the river in trade negotiations with the EU – access to fishing (and most of the UK fishing grounds are Scottish) is one of the few decent offers Boris has to make to the EU in seeking market access. His Brexit deal will take years and be overwhelmingly fashioned to benefit the City of London.
There is zero chance the Conservatives will employ a sizeable number of extra nurses: they just will not be prepared to put in the money. They will employ more policemen. In a couple of years time they will need them for widespread riots. They will not build any significant portion of the hospitals or other infrastructure they promised. They most certainly will do nothing effective about climate change. These were simply dishonest promises. The NHS will continue to crumble with more and more of its service provision contracted out, and more and more of its money going into private shareholders’ pockets (including many Tory MPs).
The disillusionment will be on the same scale as Johnson’s bombastic promises. The Establishment are not stupid and realise there will be an anti-Tory reaction. Their major effort will therefore be to change Labour back into a party supporting neo-liberal economic policy and neo-conservative foreign (or rather war) policy. They will want to be quite certain that, having seen off the Labour Party’s popular European style social democratic programme with Brexit anti-immigrant fervour, the electorate have no effective non-right wing choice at the next election, just like in the Blair years.
To that end, every Blairite horror has been resurrected already by the BBC to tell us that the Labour Party must now move right – McNicol, McTernan, Campbell, Hazarayika and many more, not to mention the platforms given to Caroline Flint, Ruth Smeeth and John Mann. The most important immediate fight for radicals in England is to maintain Labour as a mainstream European social democratic party and resist its reversion to a Clinton style right wing ultra capitalist party. Whether that is possible depends how many of the Momentum generation lose heart and quit.
Northern Ireland is perhaps the most important story of this election, with a seismic shift in a net gain of two seats in Belfast from the Unionists, plus the replacement of a unionist independent by the Alliance Party. Irish reunification is now very much on the agenda. The largesse to the DUP will be cut off now Boris does not need them.
For me personally, Scotland is the most important development of all. A stunning result for the SNP. The SNP result gave them a bigger voter share in Scotland than the Tories got in the UK. So if Johnson got a “stonking mandate for Brexit”, as he just claimed in his private school idiom, the SNP got a “stonking mandate” for Independence.
I hope the SNP learnt the lesson that by being much more upfront about Independence than in the disastrous “don’t mention Independence” election of 2017, the SNP got spectacularly better results.
I refrained from criticising the SNP leadership during the campaign, even to the extent of not supporting my friend Stu Campbell when he was criticised for doing so (and I did advise him to wait until after election day). But I can say now that the election events, which are perfect for promoting Independence, are not necessarily welcome to the gradualists in the SNP. A “stonking mandate” for Independence and a brutal Johnson government treating Scotland with total disrespect leaves no room for hedge or haver. The SNP needs to strike now, within weeks not months, to organise a new Independence referendum with or without Westminster agreement.
If we truly believe Westminster has no right to block Scottish democracy, we need urgently to act to that effect and not just pretend to believe it. Now the election is over, I will state my genuine belief there is a political class in the SNP, Including a minority but significant portion of elected politicians, office holders and staff, who are very happy with their fat living from the devolution settlement and who view any striking out for Independence as a potential threat to their personal income.
You will hear from these people we should wait for EU trade negotiations, for a decision on a section 30, for lengthy and complicated court cases, or any other excuse to maintain the status quo, rather than move their well=paid arses for Independence. But the emergency of the empowered Johnson government, and the new mandate from the Scottish electorate, require immediate and resolute action. We need to organise an Independence referendum with or without Westminster permission, and if successful go straight for UDI. If the referendum is blocked, straight UDI it is, based on the four successive election victory mandates.
With this large Tory majority, there is nothing the SNP MPs can in practice achieve against Westminster. We should now withdraw our MPs from the Westminster Parliament and take all actions to paralyse the union. This is how the Irish achieved Independence. We will never get Independence by asking Boris Johnson nicely. Anyone who claims to believe otherwise is a fool or a charlatan.
——————————————
Unlike our adversaries including the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, Bellingcat, the Atlantic Council and hundreds of other warmongering propaganda operations, this blog has no source of state, corporate or institutional finance whatsoever. It runs entirely on voluntary subscriptions from its readers – many of whom do not necessarily agree with the every article, but welcome the alternative voice, insider information and debate.
Subscriptions to keep this blog going are gratefully received.
Choose subscription amount from dropdown box:
Alternatively:
Account name
MURRAY CJ
Account number 3 2 1 5 0 9 6 2
Sort code 6 0 – 4 0 – 0 5
IBAN GB98NWBK60400532150962
BIC NWBKGB2L
Bank address Natwest, PO Box 414, 38 Strand, London, WC2H 5JB
Subscriptions are still preferred to donations as I can’t run the blog without some certainty of future income, but I understand why some people prefer not to commit to that.
I find it staggering that so many working class areas have voted for the Tories, what possesses someone to vote for a a party who is hostile to them, have they forgotten how the Tories destroyed the working class in the 80s, how they have waged war on the poor and vulnerable over the last decade with their abhorrent policies, i find it difficult to comprehend.
I think you’ll find that those working class communities who usually vote Labour voted Tory to fufil their Brexit wishes.
I doubt the Tories would’ve had such a commanding majority if Brexit wasn’t at the heart if the vote.
So what are they expecting to actually get from Brexit? How will it provide them with any advantages?
[ Mod: Slogans should not appear in the Name field. ]
—
Don’t tell them, but it basically means more brown people, instead of white Europeans, coming to steal their jobs. They’re gonna love it. LOL
It is now clear that the same impulses and desires for a change to their circumstances which make their equivalents in Scotland into SNP and Independence voters and right behind the idea of a liberal Social Democratic Scotland has in England had their heads turned by Toff rabble rousers like Niggle Farago. While people in Scotland are welcoming of immigrants those in England have bought the lie that they are to blame for their problems. They have been divided so they can be ruled more easily and they have rolled over and asked for their tummies to be tickled.
They have the same options, they have the Greens and Corbyn’s manifesto (much of it simply lifted from the SNP) would help the English working class. It seems there is something broken in the English psyche. I can only hope that the shock of the loss of Scotland and NI and having to exist under WTO rules with the WTO Court of Arbitration in abeyance because the US will not nominate a new judge leaving it inquorate. Good luck with that one.
I am increasingly of the opinion that we will need a hardened border since whilst we need more people the numbers fleeing that horrible future could overwhelm us. Especially if they bring their voting patterns with them. Let’s get more Poles instead. They have integrated well meeting our old Poles in the Churches and being acculturated. I encounter them in my voluntary work in a charity shop and they are integrating. We cannot expect the good folk in English Scots for Yes to do an equivalent with hordes of English refugees.
As an EU nation we will pretty much have to restrict immigration from such a third country anyway.
The EU is part of the WTO for crying out loud, and WTO rules on state aid are far less restrictive than EU rules where any state aid not on the narrow pre approved exemptions under SGEI have to be pre approved by the EU commission as interpreted by the courts of justice of the EU. WTO rules only apply to state aid affecting international trade, where as EU rules consider a far wider range of preferential treatment to be state aid than under WTO rules, which generally allow state aid that is generally prohibited by the EU. EU state Aid rules also allow retrospective claims for state aid not allowed under WTO rules, under WTO rules only countries can bring a case for illegal state aid (apart from bilateral agreements like TTIP, TTP, NAFTA, CETA), where as under EU rules companies can bring cases, also CETA the EU Canada deal has a investor state dispute mechanism similar to TTIP/TTP allowing companies to sue EU countries for projected loss of income when ratified.
Mate, you welcome immigrants because your indiginous population is migrating away. In England, there is net immigration in the hundreds of thousands every year and has been for twenty years.
The two situations are entirely incomparable.
Those that sacrificed a labour victory in pushing Labour towards Remain guaranteeing a Tory victory now need to apologise, and admit they were wrong. The 2017 manifesto pledged to respect the referendum, and allowed Labours radical policies to cut through, leading to massive gains, the shift to a 2nd referendum prevented Labours radical agenda cutting through. The Tories did not gain a % of the vote, it was the % of labour votes that collapsed from 40% in 2017.
You were warned, such as by George Galloway, and were arrogant enough not to listen many dismissing the working class as thick alienating labours natural base of support, did you learn nothing from Clintons ‘basket of deplorables’ statement?
It was quite clear the Blairites were pushing Labour towards Remain were only doing this cynically to ensure labour lost so they could remove Corbyn and purge the left, and the labour membership were foolish enough to fall for it. That Chucku Umuna previously supported coming out of the single market to restrict free movement indicates his shift to Remain was only a cynical attempt to remove the left. Corbyn was foolish not to purge the Blairites as Boris has done to Tory remain MPs.
Pearl clutching of the variety ‘why are the working class so stupid that they vote against their own interests’ is self indulgent, classist, helps no one and is not a vote winning strategy.
I believe the whole election outcome was faked.
In my town, traditionally Conservative voting, the only signs and posters in people’s houses were for Labour, a smaller number for the Libdems.
Not one poster or sign for the Tories. Not one, anywhere I went.
I know, it proves nothing.
And, how did the presence of signs and posters predict the actual vote?
Well, exactly.
It shows that the Tory did no canvassing, or if he did, it failed to have any effect.
Yet, he sails in with a four figure majority, ousting the Libdems who had held the seat for donkey’s years.
The Tories did not need to do any canvassing (I did get the leaflets from them), as what happened was the labour vote collapsed, and if you look at the vote, it didn’t increase significantly as the % of the Tory vote was 42% in 2017 and only increased to 43% in 2019. But the labour vote was 40% in 2017 collapsed to 32% of the vote in 2019. The other problem was that as Remain was concentrated in London Scotland and NI and a few metropolitan seats such as in Manchester, so there were far many more leave seats than remain seats. so the Tories could afford to lose a few seats in London and in Scotland to gain many more leave voting marginal labour seats and still gain a majority.
The vast majority of labour target seats voted leave making damage to Labour of shifting to support Remain far more damaging than the referendum result of 52-48 would suggest. As it happened the Tories retained remain voting London seats, as Tory Remainers were more intent in preventing a labour government than ensuring the UK remained in the EU. Whereas leave voting Labour supporters proved more attached to leave by staying at home which was enough to ensure a Tory victory, as their attachment to leave was more than Tory remain supporters to remain.
Canvassing has very little effect as I like most people do not read election leaflets, particularly of the opposition. I did however have irritating ytube adverts that I couldn’t remove for the Tory party. That the vote is down, with the Tories retaining the (approx) same % at 42/43% while Labour fell from 40 to 32% suggests that Labour leavers stayed at home rather than voted Tory, which is what I predicted would happen.
Leafletting is not canvassing, it is just a simple mail shot.
The Tory did no canvassing yet overturned the incumbent party who had occupied the seat for two decades by a four figure landslide.
How many other constituencies did a similar thing happen – what about the ‘red wall’, for instance?
If this had happened in Russia, the MSM would have been all over it here.
Denial is not an effective election strategy.
Well, That didn’t take long –
Scuffles in London as anti-Brexit protesters march on Downing Street
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4ByfX0-PTY
“The ultra-hard Brexit he is pushing will not be the panacea which the deluded anticipate.”
Oh FFFF – have you no clue what Brexit is about. It is an angry response by people who are no better now than 30 years ago and who have to see the top quarter so much much much richer.
It has never been about Brexit per se. But Brexit, and a concern about immingrant workers pushing down pay at the bottom, is just so much closer to people’s genuine concerns than anything uttered by a Blair or a Cameron or a Libflab party, that people latched on to it. Pushing through Brexit became a movement for democracy – power by the people. Pushing through Brexit was the demand of even many who voted remain – they wanted the referendum as the start of politics that did what voters, not the elites, want.
Nobody expects Brexit to make things easier for us. They expect simply to make it tougher for the rich and the elites – the ones screaming remain.
If 30 years has seen median wages up 10% but elite wages up 300% or more. Then many are quite happy to see a 5% cut in GDP. On a historical basis that would mean a 1% cut in median earnings and a 30% cut in elite earnings. More than worthwhile.
(Yes I know economics doesn’t work quite like that, but that is certainly how is appears to work ).
“Nobody expects Brexit to make things easier for us. They expect simply to make it tougher for the rich and the elites ”
The exact opposite will unfold as workers rights, wages and environmental controls decrease and rampant capitalism takes hold, and the state farms out more and more social responsibilities to the private sector.
The one chance you had to redress the balance is now on the verge of standing down as Labour leader.
It’s like talking to a wall, Republic. It won’t know its doomed till its on fire.
What’s even more disgusting at the moment, though, is that you have the likes of Marina Hyde still beating up the only guy in Westminster who stood for decency.
These over-privileged Guardian snobs are just over the top with their arrogance, and their who care’s attitude (which they mistake for balanced discussion) and I can see why so many were angry at what they take to be the London elite.
When will we hear the end of people saying that Corbyn is stuck in the 70s just because he is over 70. To me that sounds like the arrogance of youth, but also age discrimination. And anyway, it is not true. The manifesto was progressive, and for 2019, not 1969. But the shit that the Guardian churns out seems to stick, just like that of the BBC and Telegraph, Independent and Mail. And the shit laps up the shit.
Now we have people in power that think the disabled are subhuman! Not a throwback to 1970s, but frighteningly rather to the eugenics discourses of early last century.
Indeed. It is as though certain Guardian columnists are not content with simply blaming Corbyn in a spiteful and superior way now. I get the feeling that they actually desire some sort of mob punishment like flogging or hurling rotten eggs. It is disgusting to behold and I vow to never ever visit the website again. So many better places to go anyway.
Hi Steph, I can remember when The Guardian was my favourite paper. Now, like you, I think that they are a news website to avoid. For me, it was their slimy, pro-intervention, Syria policy.
Steph, Corbyn deserves so much more respect. He is a decent, honest man who leads a decent honest life. It is a disgrace that the MSM cannot even write dignified articles about the abuse he has suffered by the MSM, the worst in parliamentary history, his human rights track record, his unceasing fight against injustice and a life long anti racist. Shame on the MSM, the BBC and ITV. I do hope Channel 4 cover his resignation with dignity.
For me, I still think the security services had something to do with this election outcome particularly as the BBCs Laura Kuensberg appeared to know what is in the postal votes and broadcast it to the nation.
That is the answer, Steph, hundreds of thousands deserting the Guardian and the MSM. As long as you keep reading and buying, they are content.
Only when nobody reads it any more will they change.
Could you please tell an American which websites are better?
I basically know of the Guardian and the Independent, but I am interested in finding better sites.
Marmite
” the only guy in Westminster who stood for decency. ”
No , he was the guy who stood for keeping his options open.
Why on earth did he not tell his party who are famous for welcoming immigration that the bad behaviour of the most Soviet oppressed Eastern Europeans had been the last straw for the depressed economic regions of the north of England, and that in order to survive politically Labour would have to bring free movement to a stop?
Holding a mobile at arms length and shouting down it in public, or spending all day drinking in public or openly robbing from small traders, would get you thrown off public transport and risk you getting arrested or worse. It was pure Blairite geopolitical dogma that allowed the inclusion
of EU members that had been de-civilised by Soviet dictators.
Half of Corbyn’s party are still orthodox Blairites and so it’s his job to instruct them how to behave. The buck stops at the manager. Nothing to do with over-priveleged Guardian snobs.
Labour’s dogma is just as annoying as every other dogma. Under Brown Preston created a system for creating employment by making skilled professionals regularly have to re-train.
Just keeping up with training and professional expenses costs about £3000 a year.
That suited the Union-regulated construction industries perfectly. Jobs for the boys.
It also means that most skilled professionals are instantly de-skilled, de-moted and done out of a living because the employer no longer provides in-house training because all the workers are sub-contractors. I am sick of hearing the Guardian MSM mob telling us that we have a skills shortage , when loads of brilliant technicians have to choose between paying for training or paying their mortgage. Then a whole load of unskilled workers who don’t even know what an earth wire is for , do all the available work, without an earth wire.
Connecting with people and understanding their grievances cannot be done from an armchair.
You don’t connect with people by connecting with Union managers. They are there like all political institutions to serve themselves and hide the reality of how they pay for it.
Tradesmen survive on six hours sleep every night because they have to travel at their own expense to and from site for four hours. And no job certainty and no pension.
Victorian England in which the unions and the party are the Gradgrinds and Uriahs.
>>EU members that had been de-civilised by Soviet dictators.
Yeah, “the Russians did it”, of course. Another dogma that “just as annoying as every other dogma”. I’ll tell you more, we de-civilised Boris Johnson too. After all, who else could do it?
Prescott
Petrov
Human beings find many routes to wealth and power at the expense of others.
The BBC has just robbed the british people of a good leader and installed a very bad leader through lies and disinformation..
Boris will soon be bombing Damascus which Russia has been protecting for the last ten years. I am old enough to have hitch-hiked through Yugoslavia before Nato and al QA’ida took it apart. Yugoslavia was the intellectual epicentre of the ottoman empire.
Yesterday’s election was devised and executed through a vicious zionist media campaign to challenge Russia’s civilising influence in the Middle East. It was fixed and it will lead to disaster or even nuclear war. The vomit÷making mention of peace and reconciliation by a nato puppet dedicated to zionist war had me shouting at the radio several times.
Eugenics is popular again on the right. The Conservative Party’s eugenics problem is typified by Toby Young.
The shit seems to stick because the same shit appears everywhere by prior arrangement.
I wonder what the proportion of Blairite MPs in the Parlimentary Labour Party is now as I suspect they got less suport than other labour candidates.
Republicofscotland
What EU workers rights?, I haven’t seen any, environmental protections may be a problem but is is difficult to concentrate on those on zero hrs minimum wage jobs as the EU has been no barrier at all to the shredding of labour rights over the last 40 yrs.
Name me one instance when the EU has prevented privatisation in the UK? The equalities act and other labour protections were introduced before EU legislation due to union campaigning.
Also the most important freedom for capitalism is free movement of capital guaranteed by the single market, which is why all the big US banks supported and funded remain.
Labour, and labour supporters had a choice, either respect the referendum as the 2017 labour election manifesto did and campaign in a realistic attempt to elect a labour government OR sacrifice a labour victory in the futile attempt to prevent Brexit.
You remainers were warned what would happen by people like George Galloway, but ignored these warnings, own it. Far too many metropolitan middle class remainers thought spending the last 3 years calling the working class thick would guarantee a Labour victory and prevent the UK leaving the EU, as the working class were too thick to know any better. Using legal peti foggery to derail Brexit was always going to alienate large numbers of labour leave supporters.
It has failed, as all you have done is guarantee a Tory victory so apologise, as all Labour remain supporters campaigning for a second referendum should. You have had you third referendum on Brexit ((the EU election was the 2nd), you lost again and have destroyed the labour party in the process in collusion with the Blairites who weaponised remain to remove Corbyn, well done.
“Nobody expects Brexit to make things easier for us. They expect simply to make it tougher for the rich and the elites – the ones screaming remain.”
That doesn’t even make sense. Unless perhaps you think that the sight of these rich bastards experiencing a drop in wealth will compensate for even more appalling conditions for yourself.
And they are unlikely to experience a drop in wealth. They will become more wealthy at the leaver’s expense because of de-regulation, especially in the
City of London.
Just watch the rich get richer and richer. The Wetherspoons’ boss was milli0ns richer in seconds. They’ve voted for the very people responsible for the past four decades of public service cuts and degradation of ordinary living standards. Voting against the ruling elite would mean voting Labour, not this revamped hybrid party, part BNP part Tory right.
The Scottish electorate has given the SNP a mandate for another independence vote. It was stated clearly at the outset of the manifesto launch – a vote for the SNP is a vote for an independence referendum.
48 seats out of a possible 59 leaves no doubt about it.
The 48 SNP members need to arrive at London Westminster at the resumption of parliament declare the date of the next independence referendum, stand up and walk out.
And for as ever long the people of Scotland hand a party a mandate to call referendum on independence or anything else, this is what has to be delivered Westminster be damned.
There is absolutely nothing to be gained from sitting in a corner of England’s parliament listening to military grade BS day and night. Johnson rarely turns up for PMQ’s, and the meagre two questions afforded to the SNP does nothing but legitimize the whole charade. Go on now go, walk out that door, Just turn around now, ‘Cause you’re not welcome anymore, Weren’t you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye, Do you think I’d crumble, Did you think I’d lay down and die?
I thought I’d throw in some humour there at the end.
Or they don’t go to Westminster at all and just get on with it now. Save the train fare and stop faffing about.
I stopped taking the official results of elections and referendums at face value quite some time ago now – especially after reading “Votescam: The Stealing Of America” by the late Collier brothers – which documents the systemic rigging of US elections. The way I look at it is, if they can and do rig the media, academia, publishing, banking, the courts, etc, why would they not have the will and the capacity to rig the most important and lucrative casino of them all – the government. Also, the result of this election chimes way way too uncannily with the cringey narrative the media, the Neocons and the Blairites have been peddling since Corbyn became Labour leader – viz that he was “out of touch” with the “patriotic instincts” of those noble salt of the earth northern workingmen – what with their pigeons, their ferrets and their Union Jack shorts stored safely for their next fortnight of egg, chips and lager in Tenerife. It sounded like bogus, manipulative pseudo demotic bullshit then and it sounds no less so now. However now that Corbyn’s been neutered, I’m sure the new war-friendly Labour leader will mysteriously get a massive “Baghdad bounce” style jump in the polls- once he commits to a sensible, moderate and patriotic foreign policy of bombing the crap out of blameless Arabs somewhere or other.
Lol great comment. Ty.
Thanks Hatuey.
Of course, one key element to rigging such an election would be a heavy media barrage in advance telling everyone that the desired candidates are certain to win.
When you announce the results that the preferred candidate won by say 2% of the vote (enough to avoid recount calls), its a lot more likely to be accepted if the supposedly defeated candidate’s supporters feel that “Wow, we did better than we thought.” as opposed to “We was robbed! We were going to get 60%.”
Thus the necessity of the heavy mass media barrage saying the preferred candidate was going to win by say 5% before the announcing of the rigged results that say he won by 2%.
I’ve noticed that the rest of the world understands that citizens not only need to vote, but need to be willing to defend that vote after the elections. My guess is that the only way you’d see an honest election result in America is that if the 60% of the people who really voted for change all showed up the next day at mass rallies in the city centers telling the world that we voted for change and look at our numbers if you deny it. In nations like the UK and US, the elections are taken for granted and the voters simply go home to wait for the telly to tell them which Tory Cretin rules them next. (note that Tory Cretins don’t have to be in the Tory party). They like running private school boys like Obama as Tories under fake covers promising change and hope.
Very interesting points. You’re right – if you’re going to rig elections, it’s vital to rig perceptions and expectations beforehand. I do not believe they were ever going to let Corbyn win an election, full stop. Whatever it took to take him out was going to be done. And it had to be a crushing defeat this time around – three bullets in the head to be completely sure. I speak as someone with reservations about the man by the way – but who admired his lonely stances for sanity when it came to Libya, Syria, Iraq, Palestine etc. In most ways he’s a much more moderate figure than his unhinged Neocon armchair commando critics.
Good points.
Here the thing for me.
The Sunderland Car workers ( actual workers – with Blue Collars Mr Neil ) voted Labour.
The ex blue collar workers in other parts of Sunderland (the one’s who lost their jobs from Thatcher onwards ) )voted not Labour.
The one’s in the car plant will be young or youngish and the older dopes will be oldish if not old.
The sad part is the old one’s think that Johnson isn’t lying about their future prospects.
there will be trouble in areas like these.
Similar to the Miners Strike.
The old – without jobs have just voted the younger workers with jobs out of work.
They will not be forgiven for their self pitying selfishness.
You have a way with the written word- great comment.
I don’t think this election was rigged. Postal votes maybe fishy but a huge, nationwide corruption of a traditional pencil and paper ballot is I think impossible to be carried out without trace.
The exit poll is also significant protection.
You mean that Exit Poll which was conducted by three strongly pro-Tory tv networks?
I had a laugh early in the evening when I saw someone write about the BBC/ITV/Sky Exit Poll, and my first thought was “Wouldn’t it be shorter and easier just to call it the Tory Exit poll?”
“if they can and do rig the media, academia, publishing, banking, the courts, etc,”
I didn’t understand this bit, which I suppose comes from the Colliers book, and refers to the US not Britain. Media is pretty obvious, but academia? How is that rigged? Publishing too, how is it rigged? You can self-publish these days, but otherwise you have to convince a publisher, which is a commercial question. Banking, well it’s a filthy business, but rigged by them? The courts – not yet llike the US. We’ve just seen what goes on in British courts, and Johnson didn’t like it.
Of course, the politicians are trying to rig elections, rigging has existed since elections came into existence. War, though, which you bring up,as the immediate choice, is somewhat going out of fashion, as western governments can’t afford to have the coffins seen coming home. Stirring up internal dissent, as in Hong Kong, is a lot more fun, and less expensive.
Ah, the old argument that corrupt, immoral behavior should be tolerated and in fact celebrated because “people have always done it.”
Eh? That’s a fine piece of Loony word twisting. Easy to return, with something like: “so Chernobyl you are arguing that corrupt, immoral behavior (sic) should be tolerated and in fact celebrated (nice one!) because people have always done it” etc. Add some dripping contempt and bake in a warm oven, serves 10.
Throughout the election campaign, Nicola Sturgeon and other members of the circle of love informed us of their intention to formally request section 30 powers to hold a referendum and that she’d make that request by Christmas. Quite a big thing was made of this as late as last night.
But today in an email Sturgeon informs us that she now intends to “publish” something along the lines of an argument for a referendum.
Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me her ass hasn’t collapsed already. I beg you.
God let me be wrong.
Hatuey.
Chin up. Today has been partly demoralising but partly envigourating because there was so much wrong with the opposition in this election. A bad opposition is like a drunk who can’t get their gearstick into gear.
An absolutely positive No from Johnson is something you can work with, while a maybe later from Labour gets you nowhere. Why shouldn’t she pitch her referendum politely and according to procedure?
Unless you were thinking she’s the Virgin Mary and urgently needs to find a manger??
I 100% agree that “An absolutely positive No from Johnson is something you can work with, while a maybe later from Labour gets you nowhere…”
But I’m asking for procedure, not against it. The procedure is that she should start the process rolling by formally requesting a section 30, just as she said she would.
I’m asking something important; has she broken that promise and backed down already?
Its funny the reaction one sees online.
I took Corbyn as giving a firm yes to a referendum, but only after he’d gotten some time to try to fix some urgent problems (with SNP votes in Parliament).
Which I took as being a great deal on offer. Because a truly silly thing to do would be to rush into a independence referendum and then lose it because you haven’t done the proper ground work. Knowing that a referendum was coming for sure, and then starting the hard, non-glamorous, non-internet work to make it succeed sounded like the best possible path towards Scottish Independence. Maybe the movement is at the point where it can win in a short election, but having a couple of years to truly nail it down didn’t sound like a bad deal, especially since this might be now or never for the Scots as if they lose another referendum its going to be harder and harder to keep trying this.
From the other nite’s results, it now appears obvious that Remain would have lost a 2nd Referendum, and likely by a bigger margin than the 1st. In such an environment, calling for a 3rd Referendum would seem absurd. If the Scots lose their 2nd referendum for independence, they’ll face the same problem is getting a 3rd. Best to be certain.
Ass collapsed hatuey?
She’s had the colostomy bag of more devolved powers fitted from day 1.
It was strange on reflection how they came out with the exit poll figure straight away at 10pm with the Tory majority of 80 seats and the whole thing was flawless like it was all ready to go. I forget who said it, but something along the lines of the bigger the lie, the more believable it is. However sitting here with my tin foil hat on and I still wouldn’t completely discount the fact that Both Corbyn and Swinson knew what was coming. ”It was a Brexit vote” they said! No shit Sherlock! Who would have guessed that after the European elections?
Does anyone else agree that Sturgeon’s OTT display on hearing of Swinson’s loss was unbecoming and undignified?
Yeah a bit over the top.. An Exciting moment though…I don’t think it beats Labour and Tories Hugging each other when our Indy ref results 2014 came in.
I think it should be viewed in context. The rebel alliance broke down when Swinson started to believe she could be PM. The polls momentarily suggested she would do okay in an election and at that point she sold the rebel alliance down the river. I’m guessing in the background she had threatened to vote for an election with the Tories and at that point all cohesion was lost.
I’m not going to couch my feelings about Swinson out of some notion of magnanimity or because she lost. I think she’s a vile, dangerously selfish, cold bastard who would say and do anything to further her career. And I think most people saw all that in her.
I’d much rather have Boris as PM than Swinson, and I mean that sincerely. By miles. We are all aware of her record in coalition, austerity, etc.
She’s finished and I’m very glad about that.
PS please don’t think I had any time for Swinson. I think she was awful and hope that’s the last we see or hear from her. I said as much about her performance at the LD Bournemouth fest.
Mary
No it’s a human response to something you are greatly pleased about.
Time to get off your high horse.
There is a lot more yo be concerned about in the world. E.g. Working class voters voting for an extreme right wing government.
From what I’ve seen of Jo Swinson from afar, I’d say a couple of vigorous fist-pumps are indeed in order upon hearing news of her defeat.
Or do you think that Jacob Rees Muug was calm and considered upon hearing of the Tory win, given proper commiserations to Labour?
Big Anti BJ / Tory Protest Tonight in Glasgow ( Excuse the source )
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5065186/general-election-2019-glasgow-protest-boris-johnson-tories/?
First of any, Brian, AUOB March planned for the 11th of January, I think.
Yeah, Hatuey..Thanks .. I posted about that earlier on the Inverclyde for Independence Page
Very Sudden, but ‘ the March for Independence ‘ will be Big…yip a first for January..I shall be there.
How about a list of which companies “managed the postal vote” in which constituencies?
Together with the names of which council officials gave them the contracts?
^Yes. We have two Tories, Rabb and Kuenssberg, confessing to electoral fraud. (Media —> crickets)
Isn’t this reason enough to void the election?
Hi J
I wanted to say a Big Thank you for your kind words about some of my art.. it was great to escape the real world ill’s for a change here.. We so need the arts..Keep up the great work
“it was great to escape the real world ill’s for a change here..”
It’s hard sometimes, constantly excavating the abscess we call politics today.
Did you get anywhere?
Another question: How would we find out how many proxy votes were made and where they were made?
I remembered the appeals advising voters to register for proxy voting, rather than through a postal vote. Like this one: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/britons-overseas-urged-to-register-for-proxy-not-postal-votes
It goes on to stress “There are an estimated 1.4 million overseas voters, more than double the difference between the no and yes votes in the referendum. But overseas voting records show poor turnouts.”
According to wiki: “Upon receipt of a postal ballot pack in the post (or of the postal ballot paper and postal voting statement if sent separately), the returning officer places it inside the postal voters’ ballot box allocated to the particular constituency/ward. If a presiding officer receives a postal ballot pack in a polling station, it is sealed inside a packet which is later delivered to the returning officer at the close of poll together with a form recording the number of postal ballot packs received by the presiding officer.[21][22]
Candidates and their agents, representatives of the Electoral Commission and observers accredited by the Electoral Commission and entitled to observe the opening of postal ballot packs – the returning officer must give candidates and their agents at least 48 hours’ written notice of the time and location of every opening session of postal ballot packs.”
And has anyone been able to view the Rabb video recently?
On the very first day of the new Tory government:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/anti-islam-activist-tommy-robinson-announces-he-joined-the-tories
It’s been fascinating today to see and hear the BBC wheeling out such irrelevant has-beens as Iain McNicol and Alan Johnson to pronounce their self-important, bitter negative verdicts on the valiant but vanquished Jeremy Corbyn. Neil Kinnock’s bilious rant on QT topped off this performance.
I see that the establishment was so afraid of where Corbyn might lead the country that killing his leadership is not enough. They need to desecrate and flay the body in public, burn the heart, and scatter the ashes to the four winds.
What ignorant, superstitious, insecure savages they are!
oops! Stephen Kinnock. I think his father was a better man than he is.
Christ! Stephen Kinnock must be lower to the ground than a snake’s arsehole if his faither was a better man than him!
quite so!
Yeah right mate. the people ave spoken, albeit politely. They did not like Corbyn and his Communist ideas.
They do not particularly like people like you sneering at them and assuming that they are too stupid to have ideas and thoughts of their own, Real people do not care about the BBC and have probably never heard of the people you reference. They have expressed their view (again) and expect to be listened to.
Most people do not take kindly to being referred to as ignorant superstitious, insecure savages – although they almost certainly recognize their potential for savagery as an ultimate response to endless vilification.
lofl “communist ideas”. next, you provide the quote where corbyn called anybody an ignorant, superstitious, insecure savage.
Are we now supposed not to refer to stupid and malicious behaviour as stupid and malicious as we are not allowed to refer to the repression of the Palestinians as repression? It’s good to know the rules under this new, Black Shirt ruled regime.
Yes, it is common after a man has suffered such a political defeat, for the victors to spare him pain beyond that which was necessary to defeat him. As you say, not a bit of that here. Ending his tenure as party leader isn’t enough, they want to exorcise him from public life; season of goodwill be damned.
Of course, in not only destroying Corbyn, but having him seen to be destroyed, a message is being sent to his wouldbe replacement, and the wider party: make sure the next guy is an establishment friendly pro-Israel yes man, or he’ll get the same treatment as Corbyn. I look at the names throwing their hats in the ring (Stephen Kinnock, Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer ) and it seems that warning has been heeded.
I lament the fact that Corbyn, a man of huge personal integrity, finds himself seeking office, at a time when the currency of integrity has never been more diminished in value.
they’re doing the same thing to sanders and gabbard in the u.s., even as the uk moves toward the u.s. healthcare model. eventually, people find they cannot eat propaganda, and propaganda doesn’t cure illness, and they revolt, in mild ways at first.
The right wing Blairite faction within Labour prefers to be a neo-liberal opposition rather than be a socialist government. Why not, the pay’s the same? I think riots are inevitable whatever kicks them off, but to be effective [and there aren’t enough police, firemen or soldiers to put a halt to them], they need to do so much damage that neo-liberalism cannot afford to rebuild the country and only a socio-economic system can. In their own financial interests a few hundred politicians killed off egalite for millions. For now.
The UK electorate has effectively killed Assange, although Im not sure Labour would have dared to come up for him. The un-radical and not-to-upset-anybody approach of the LP was ultimately its doom.
And I fear it must now also be clear democracy is dead: this election was bought by lies, and the establishment will never risk a left wing party near power.
Yes, the fact must be faced that Assange is as good as dead; although that remains to be determined is if he dies here, or in the USA. Put through this hellish ordeal, and then killed, all for the crime of publishing secrets he made no covenant to keep.
Yeah obviously the impending death of Assange is the direct responsibility of some old lady in the Shires who had the temerity to disagree with you. Naturally Assange bears no responsibility at all for his own fate.
Take a look at a real smart guy who went against the establishment. He knew exactly what he was up against and was fully aware of the dreadful fate that awaited him should he make one error. But he remained focused on the mission and now lives as best he can in Moscow. He is not blaming some no-mark in Baltimore or Bristol for his fate. Rather he accepts responsibility for his own actions and for the consequences of those actions.
loony, in what way does revealing u.s. war crimes merit a death penalty? snowdon had the opportunity to run, assange didn’t. you’re big on consequences for people that expose the war machine, and not one word for the people that lie us into wars and don’t bear any consequences at all.
You predict the future need for extra Police on riot duty. I feel there will also be large peaceful protests, and I wonder about the morale of the Police if their own parents are out demonstrating.
It is very touching that you “wonder about the morale of the Police if their own parents are out demonstrating” It is very noticeable that you do not wonder about the morale of the French police who have, in recent months, been repeatably called upon to brutalize (and in some cases main and kill) their fellow citizens.
Could it possibly be that you are openly displaying hidden bias and implicit racism? Maybe you should consider informing on yourself. Think how morally pure that would make you.
If they use the American model (like France), the police are heavily propagandized to hate all ‘civilians’ and would shoot even their grandmother if she reached for a phone or tried to hold up her pants. All of the psychologist tricks used to mind-bend soldiers into fighting in some place like Basra thinking its ‘defending England’ would be used to make dang sure the every police officer would gladly bash grandma’s head in.
Frankly having the UK out of the EU while it grapples with its malicious and insane intelligence-military class is something to be welcomed. Yes, I know the infection is not unique to the USA and UK and exists in all NATO countries, but for whatever reason it seems particularly toxic in the UK and the USA.
Having the UK to some extent quarantined from the EU while they squabble with themselves can only be a good thing for the rest of the world.
As far as Scotland goes, should they request they get included in whatever the head-scratching formula Boris got for Northern Ireland?
As I understand it, Northern Ireland to Westminister has essentially come what Kosovo is to Belgrade – Belgrade and London retain formal sovereignty but effectively both provinces are now – or will be in the case of NI – EU protectorates. Why doesn’t Scotland ask for a similar arrangement?
Because being an independent nation within the EU is far superior.
The funny part is that eventually the UK is going to have to be close economically to the EU. Boris don’t admit that now, but it is coming. And then, the First Minister of Scotland, sitting in the EU Councils, as well as Scottish MEP’s get to have a bigger say in England’s eventual economics than Boris.
In fact, here’s a better joke. At some point, the English have to beg to get back into the EU, and its a Scottish First Minister holding a veto in hand.
Here’s a thought.
Why don’t we campaign for another election?
… the working classes clearly didn’t know what they were voting for :-/
They were voting for the sort of England Oswald Mosley offered them. We are now living in an England that would have made an alliance with Hitler and never have created the Welfare State. They made that choice knowingly, and we will all have to live with it, but don’t pretend it is anything other than sinister and shameful. This is the end of the dream of 1945.,
SADEST of all – Corbyn has been blamed for nine years of Tory Austerity. Labour voters who wanted Brexit more than they wanted social justice will pay as heavily as the rest of us. Wales will suffer terribly for it. Boris doesn’t give a fig for anything except himself and the Banksters, in that order. I wish Craig Douglas had had a little more sleep before he penned this note – it’s disappointing that he almost relishes the idea of those of us this side of the border being trapped in Boris’s little england.
Garbage statistics being trotted out to blame Corbyn: Labour defectors blame Labour leadership
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1205510937995812864
The key here is what Opinium admit “Weighted to be nationally representative”
But Labour defectors weren’t nationally representative, they were predominantly in Leave voting seats. By giving equal weighting to Leave and Remain voting areas they are providing a misleading picture of why Labour supporters defected.
To illustrate: suppose there are an equal number of Leave and Remain supporting electorates, but there are 1000 Labour defectors in Leave electorates and 100 Labour defectors in Remain supporting electorates. Opimium then comes along and surveys 10 defectors in the Leave electorates and 10 defectors in the Remain electorates and then draws an erroneously conclusion about why people defected since they views of areas which had low defection rates have been over-represented
craig murray… thanks for your articles on the uk election and providing the platform you do for the many voices to shine thru.. much appreciated…
The Momentum/Corbyn faction needs to split with the Blairite faction.
The key is that crumbled Red Wall area. There is no way in heck the Blairite Labour party is going to regain the trust of the voters who just deserted Labour. Its the Blairites who drove them away and disillusioned them. The only chance is for a radical leftwing group based around the Momentum activists to get in there and win those areas back. By the next time they vote, those same voters will be very disillusioned by Johnson and the Tories for the reasons described so well by Amb. Murray. Its the Momentum faction that can go back in there and retake those seats.
The Blairites are going to have the long knives out for the Corbyn/Momentum people in the coming days. The only answer is to leave. Leave the Blairites on their own with their little pocket of City millionaires.
But momentum is pro EU/Pro Remain, so how do they appeal to the Red Wall electorate?
The Corbyn faction is clearly the bulk of the Labour Party so who should leave? If the Blairites recapture the Labour Party it will only die.
You know the Tories won’t ever agree to a referendum. Which just means its time to toss the dang tea into the harbor and tell Westminster where they can go stick it. Its has happened before. It will happen again.
The Election was stolen in advance by media manipulation, not least by a Complicit BBC.
The Show Trials for Labour and Corbyn have now begun at the Guardian. I won’t be touching that Rag again.
Those fooled in the Electorate will turn against Johnson when they see him go back on his lying promises.
Given, not least, the activity of the BBC throughout the Election, perhaps a challenge can be in the Supreme Court under the Human Rights Act (before both are effectively abolished), since the elections need to be conducted “under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature.”
Unreasonably withholding of the Russia Report by a self-interested implicated party should also be taken into account.
Even if it were not eventually successful, it would allow aggrieved electors to present a consolidated catalogue of incidents relating to the BBC and others available to the public gaze and become a matter of Public Record for future elections (should there be any).
References:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/II/chapter/3 :
“The High Contracting Parties undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature.”
https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-convention/elections
Right to free elections:
https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Free_elections_ENG.pdf
(even Russia in 2003 was (at that time) noted as having an impartial State Broadcaster.
i.e., a challege to attempt to annul the result and re-hold the election once the abuses had been corrected and the culprits suitably dealt with.
As a backbencher Jeremy Corbyn was in a different moral league to virtually everyone else in parliament. Instinctually on the right side of every issue at home and abroad, he stood up and spoke truth while his careerist colleagues mouthed neoliberal and Washington imperialist dogma.
It is a tragedy therefore that his righteous contempt for those people evaporated when he became leader. The backbench Corbyn would immediately have called out the “antisemitism crisis” for what it was: a bogus, cynical scam by bitter rightwingers. So too their demand for a 2nd referendum policy when 79% of the marginals Labour needed to win had voted already to leave the EU.
Corbyn’s appeasement of unappeasable enemies proved suicidal and is a stark reminder that if neoliberalism is to be defeated the left has to be just as ruthless as the right.
I honestly have no idea whom I would trust to replace Corbyn and prevent Labour sliding wholesale back to being a neoliberal warmonger party. Figures championed by Guardian columnists, like Thornberry and Starmer, can clearly be dismissed. They are no less centrist establishment remain/ pro-war figures than Jess Phillips. But none of the supposed left candidates have anything like Corbyn’s decades long credentials in terms of holding the line against war and rule for the rich.
I now fear Labour members getting gulled as they were by Tom Watson and being lumbered with a leader of that ilk. If that happened the right would never allow the left get a sniff again and we would have a permanent situation in this country where Macronism was the most radical permissible political option.
‘Middle Ground’ Politics Aren’t Moderate, They’re Dangerous
https://novaramedia.com/2019/12/11/the-centrist-delusion-middle-ground-politics-isnt-moderate-its-dangerous/
Somebody got it right when they called it the extreme centre.
Corbyn was guilty of the awful act of trying to hold his party together after he won the leadership.
I know I’m old fashioned, but to me, that’s what a leader is supposed to do. Hold his party together and try to win control of the government.
It turns out, that Corbyn with his Leave history, had far better instincts as to what was needed than the Blair Remainers. But he did reign in those instincts to avoid the splitting of his party. Too bad the Blairites thought that defeating Corbyn was more important than defeating the Tories.
If Brexit serves one purpose it is to make this country more independent, flexible and able to adapt ahead of the curve on which the juggernauts will sit stuck.
That curve comes when the world faces up to whether it makes any sense to continue to fund our lives by Quantitative Easing.
Coming off QE is going to be a hell of a struggle. Brexit gives us a slim chance as opposed to no chance.
Scottish independence seems unlikely to offer Scotland that same chance as it is essentially a route back into the juggernaut of the EU. It may be that if Scotland leaves England and Wales will be fitter still but I would prefer Scotland to stay.
The EU may be to slow to change, but I suspect it will. Whether that is a French lead more unified EU or a German lead leaner entity I don’t know, but suspect there will be aspects of both ie a more unified centre with an outer ring of weaker states.
There is one possibility or prospect whereby Scotland could slot into the inner EU circle but it would involve a compromise, which Craig or the SNP would not relish and I will refrain from speculating on that.
As for Craig’s call to follow the Irish path of resistance outside of politics. Really! Do you really want to cause that sort of pain and division not only in the UK but in Scotland too.
[ Mod: To ‘Chernobyl’, ‘Casino’ (and ‘Boss Tweed’)
From the moderation rules for commenters:
Sockpuppetry.
…. the adoption of multiple identities within the same thread is not to be allowed.
Please use one identity only. ]
—
I’m laughing at the image of the UK as being ‘more independent’ on the end of Donald Trump’s leash.
The funny part is that Boris won’t get a deal with the US before Trump is booted out of office next year. It won’t happen that quickly. Look at how long the new NAFTA has taken, even with large corporate support in Congress. I’m guessing that neither a President Sanders nor President Warren is going to get along with Boris very well.
Thank you….
Craig: “The Establishment are not stupid and realise there will be an anti-Tory reaction. Their major effort will therefore be to change Labour back into a party supporting neo-liberal economic policy and neo-conservative foreign (or rather war) policy.”
Indeed, just so.
Already yesterday Maitlis was pushing the question “Should Momentum be allowed to stay in the Labour Party?”
Expect more of the same relentlessly from Kuenssberg, Pienaar, Robinson and Smith et al.
History, however, will be much kinder on Jeremy Corbyn and much harsher on the poisonous, spineless, bought and paid for media classes who have damaged our democracy so badly.
As Len McCluskey states in his post-election Huff Po article:
“Corbyn has borne the brunt of one of the most sustained and unpleasant character assassinations in political history and done so with dignity.”
I have no doubt this will come to be widely recognised by the British public, just as happened with Corbyn’s mentor Tony Benn, and that in time Jeremy will rise to become a very popular and respected public figure.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-labour-election-defeat-len-mccluskey_uk_5df3b918e4b0ca713e5ee0fa
Ah yes “Corbyn’s mentor” Tony Benn.
Why not take a look at Benn’s stance regarding the EU and then compare that with Corbyn. Ask why it is so different, and why Corbyn never felt the need to explain the reasons why his divergence of opinion with Benn on this matter.
Corbyn was standing for election in the UK, a country where the official language is English. So ask why he was happy to appear on Venezuelan TV speaking in Spanish (ironically to eulogise the passing of Benn) and saying very different things about the EU than he was ever prepared to say in English to people that might actually vote for him.
A cynic may suggest that Momentum members tend not to speak Spanish and tend not to watch Venezuelan TV.
@Loony, apparently we don’t all have your infinite budget or flexible staffing for these ‘revelations’
anyway, you are welcome on here to your opinions , unlike most of the rest of us commentators who are excluded from access to the main media channels. Have you heard how quickly the LBC defenders close down someone who starts asking a reality based question? – impressive training there!
On the wider subject of ‘out-of-bubble’ media sources, which is in theory, as you indicated, potentially highly interesting
I’m personally replacing today the LBC and BBC apps on my phone with news/radio apps from a few different countries, as I have no expectations that our extant fourth estate will reveal anything useful about ‘president’ Cummings and PM Johnson. I’m sure we’ll get told many times about what he says, but we might get rather less about what he/they actually do.
I think I’ll probably even start watching Euronews TV more, to see what the ‘other side’ might say, on subjects, trivia, which our forlorn state broadcasters might never get round to discussing.
[ Mod: FAO ‘Chernobyl’, ‘Casino’ (and ‘Boss Tweed’)
From the moderation rules for commenters:
Sockpuppetry.
…. the adoption of multiple identities within the same thread is not to be allowed.
Please use one identity only. ]
—
hmmm, my impression is that the Brexit supporters are far less likely to speak Espanol than the university educated youth that tends to make up Momentum activists. Heck, they are probably even willing to talk to ‘ferriegners’, so can more likely get someone to translate for them if they’ve been studying some other language. Or I suppose its those EU-favorers who vacation in Spain who are less likely to speak Spanish than your typical Brexit supporter?
Resolution
This will come only after having accepted the extent of the disaster we can then sit and formulate the shape of the resistance. This will be difficult to be focused on Parliament which has now been occupied by the Tories, except through the Nationalist in NI and Scotland but sadly not sufficiently except by breaking the union. This in turn will make England a one party state with Tories ruling forever.
Resistance may have to be formulated outside parliament and politically it may need either the breakdown of Labour or a reformation of the Lib Dems to occupy more of the middle left and distance themselves from the shame they covered themselves with through their collaboration with the Tories both openly between 2010 and 2015, and as enablers in 2019.
Craig, my reservations on holding a referendum without a Section 30 is that Unionist supporters might well be told simply not to participate. Effectively, unless we had over 50% of all eligible to vote, any result can be deemed invalid by the UK government and would not be recognised by the EU. What are your views on this?
Yes, I think it is very likely that will be their tactic. My view is that we simply go ahead, win the referendum and declare Independence.
As the UK argued before the International Court of Justice in the Kosovo case, Independence of a seceding state is almost by definition going to be illegal in terms of the law of the state seceded from, but that does not interfere with the right of self-determination.
The key point is to have EU and other states primed for recognition. and to be prepared to defend our new state with our lives if they send in the army.
And do you also propose to use violence to enforce your will against the 49% within who oppose you?
Fel
How exactly do you know the result of the referendum? Are you a time traveller or a descendant of Nostradamus?
Not sure if infallible prophecy is inheritable – if it were imagine the arguments between parents and their children about what will happen if they don’t stop doing this and start doing that, but anyway sorry shouldn’t have mentioned an exact result so let’s just assume I was positing a mere indicative figure.
Although it is different in many ways, the Catalonian precedent might cause some hesitation, especially if Standard Life and Scottish Widows, say, announce imminent departure. The EU defends its own member states (little Greece in opposition to big Germany excepted) so if the UK is already out, it won’t interfere with an internal disagreement. Scotland may not weigh too much compared with the rest of the UK as a future trading partner (or importer of German cars in other words). It is going to be a very rough ride.
George Milne
There is a precedent in N Ireland when a referendum was boycotted by the republicans but despite the reduced turnout the UK accepted the result.
Thank you for this interesting and valuable article. However, Brexit didn’t have anything to do with the outcome of this election. The MSM, BBC and ITV assumed the role of the Official Propaganda wing of the Tory Party, the BBC being actively involved not only in relentlessly promoting and being extremely favourable to the Tories but also involved in active Censorship by removing positive coverage of Jeremy Corbyn and Labour’s policies, editing news footage to show Johnson in a positive light and colluding with the MSM in tricking Corbyn into an interview with Andrew Neil knowing full well Johnson had not agreed to an interview only releasing this information the following day. There can be no doubt, and I mean no doubt, that the whole thing was set up by the BBC in collusion with the Tabloid Press – all the headlines were ready to go before the interview, of that you can be sure. The BBC did their part acting deceitfully in the process. I’ll return to this later.
Let’s take a good look at the billionaire owned MSM. Go back to Gordon Brown. When he assumed the role of Prime Minister following Blair’s resignation, the MSM demanded he call a General Election. Brown refused saying he wanted to develop his policies and put them to the electorate in a year’s hence to give them a chance to look at them, see some of them in action and then decided. What followed was a vicious, malicious concerted campaign against Brown which led to a Cameron led Tory Government. Go back to Ed Milliband. A good politician, a decent, honest person. He again, suffered a malicious, vicious campaign against him by the MSM. They said his father was a communist who hated this country, that he was a Marxist and so on and so forth. They even showed photographs of him eating a bacon sandwich with the headline that he looked ‘strange’ (for strange, read foreign). Then they mounted a campaign against him saying if he got elected Britain would be run by the SNP in coalition with Labour. Well, now we have just had a Government run by the DUP.
Jeremy Corbyn has been the victim of the most sustained, vicious, cruel, evil and malicious campaign against any politician in the history of British politics. He is a decent, honest man of high integrity who has spent his life helping the poor and the vulnerable, a lifelong anti- racist, a social democrat with policies not dissimilar to those in other European countries. The MSM including the BBC and ITV has conducted the biggest witch-hunt in political history against 99% of it all based on lies, misrepresentations and motivated by pure malice.
Today, the BBC, ITV and the MSM can barely contain their Euphoria. The BBC are aggressively treating any Labour MPs who appear on their programmes as though they were scum and bait rather than committed politicians who serve their country. Well, Jeremy Corbyn deserves far more respect than this diatribe of malice, corruption and witch-hunt. The Propaganda Machine got its wish. We now have a sociopath, a pathological liar, a dishonest charlatan and an immoral coward as a Prime Minister. Nobody should forget his conduct as foreign secretary and the things he said or the racist comments he has made. Let’s face it, the Tories didn’t win the election, the MSM propaganda machine bankrolled them to it on the back of an evil campaign against Jeremy Corbyn.
Well, welcome to a Totalitarian Fascist state – democracy does not exist in this country any more. In the Tory Manifesto you can see that they are going to restrict the Judiciary so the rule of law, the cornerstone of any democracy, will be eradicated bit by bit. John Mann has just announced he is going to launch an investigation into the Left Wing Press.
Ironically, not only can Johnson not deliver Brexit but those people that kept bleating on about ‘taking back control and sovereignty’ are going to find out pretty soon that we will be totally subsumed by the USA in everything. This so called trade deal will cost the minimum of 400,000 jobs in the UK. The NHS will be handed over to USA Private health companies and so on and so forth.
This country is in an economic mess. The Labour Party Manifesto would have transformed the Nation’s economy into one of investment, job creation, solid public services and other things. This country is on its knees. Under the Tories we have lost our triple A credit rating, we have gone from being the 5th richest country in the world to the 7th and going down still. We have see a catalogue of deprivation for the poorest and the most vulnerable leading to 130,000 deaths related to universal credit (admitted by the DWP).
The underlying economic indicators show we are in a recession. That recession will be deeply compounded by a No Deal Brexit (which, as Phillip Hammond said, Bojo’s withdrawal agreement actually is). The very rich will now get significant tax cuts which will take £20bn out of the Treasury a year. They will set the corporation tax as the lowest in the world taking a further £30bn and more out of the Treasury. Who is going to pay for that?
What we need to understand loud and clear is that the MSM, the BBC and the ITV will never, ever, allow a Labour Government to be elected never. Unless the British Sheeples start getting out on the streets like the Black Bloc in France (who believe passive demonstrating doesn’t work) then this nation is well and truly f.u.c.k.e.d. The Nation will realise the enormity of what they have voted for very shortly. By then we will be in full Fascist Totalitarian Government with active heavy duty censorship of any views that dissent in any way from the Government.
We are rapidly becoming a poor nation who is heading for a deep deep recession from which we are likely never to recover. A further five years of a Tory Government will decimate this Nation economically, socially and politically. The consequences will be irreversible, totally irreversible.
I guess I shall have to accept my place as a Prole. George Orwell’s 1984 is here, alive and well and going forward.
Jo Dominich. Your words ring so true. If only you were a politician we had been able to vote for. I saw the Tory scum led by the shaven headed Cummings, welcoming Johnson back into No 10 yesterday. I could not believe how many staff were there, lined up and clapping like sea lions.
The state broadcaster’s output has been execrable. If it was a Gallus gallus, its wings would have need clipping.
Let the Heiling begin.
Here you can read a multiplicity of views explaining the Labour Party loss. Russian interference, media bias, ignorant voters, lies about anti semitism etc etc.
The reality is far simpler. In 2016 the people voted to leave the EU, and they expect and require their politicians to enact all necessary measures in order to give effect to that vote. The Labour Party consistently blocked all attempts to leave the EU and were unwilling to set out any coherent strategy as to how, if elected, they would enact the will of the people and leave the EU.
They have lost because their stance on leaving the EU appeared incoherent and duplicitous. Not Russians, not the media, not the Jews can be held responsible for this. The responsibility lies exclusively with the Labour Party.
Take a look at the “morally pure” Jeremy Corbyn and see if you can find any evidence at all that prior to 2016 he was in any way supportive of the EU. When did his Damascene conversion come about? and why did he never think it appropriate to set out the reasons behind this fundamental change of view.
One explanation is that his view never changed, but he was effectively held hostage by the crazed and deranged Momentum faction. So on this explanation his “moral purity” did not extend to resisting those who held him intellectually captive. Why would anyone vote for such a person?
Jeremy Corbyn was the best chance for a decent and progressive Prime Minister and government that this country has had for a generation.
He was not “duplicitous” with respect to Brexit. It is simply the case that as leader of an overwhelmingly and enthusiastically pro-EU party he had to put his own views in abeyance.
He held out against his party’s views for a long time, taking us into the 2017 election on a promise to respect the referendum result, but finally having to give in to the EU enthusiasts with the results that we now sadly see.
Momentum are neither “crazed and deranged” nor a “faction”. They are now the largest grouping in the Labour Party, composed of a very wide range of people. No doubt you will be able to find one or two crazies among them if that is your yen, as it is with the MSM, but they are largely a group of good people who will be working hard over the next five years to secure a much better government for the country than the one we are about to be subjected to.
Wasting your time, Peter, I’m afraid.