There will never again be a route to Scottish Independence deemed legal by Westminster. 2014 will never be repeated. The UK will never willingly give up a third of its land, most of its fisheries, most of its mineral resources, its most marketable beef, soft fruit and whisky, most of its renewable energy potential, a vital part of its military including its primary nuclear base, its best universities in a number of key fields including life sciences, its ready pool of intellectual and professional talent. Johnson is for once honest when he says keeping the Union together is his top priority. It is the top priority of the entire British establishment.
David Cameron only agreed to the 2014 referendum because he thought the result would humiliate and kill off Scottish nationalism. Support for Independence was at 28% in the polls at the time he agreed. Westminster had the most enormous and horrible shock when support for Independence grew to 45% during the campaign as many people for the first time in their lives heard the real arguments. The Whitehall panic of the last week of the 2014 referendum campaign is not something the British Establishment ever intend to repeat.
There is a charmingly naive argument put forward by some that, if support for Independence can be grown to 60% in the opinion polls, Johnson and Westminster will have to “grant” a referendum. This is the opposite of the truth. If support for Independence is at 60%, the very last thing that the Tories will do is agree a referendum they will lose. Their resistance will be massively hardened. Remember, the Tories could have zero Tory MPs in Scotland and still have a majority of 73 in Westminster. There is no political damage for Johnson in unpopularity in Scotland. In England, his anti-Scots stance is very popular with their Cummings core support base of knuckle-dragging, ill-educated racists.
The “intellectual justification” for this stance was trailed by Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab on the Marr programme this morning. Irrespective of the wishes of the majority in Scotland, the UK has a duty to stop Scottish Independence, to prevent anarchic secessionist forces being unleashed across Europe; he named Italy, France and Spain.
Westminster will never agree another referendum, and the more we look like winning it, the less they will agree to it.
Nor is there a route to a “legal” referendum through the courts. If a court rules that a consultative referendum is legal under the current Scotland Act (which it might well be), then the Tories will simply pass new legislation at Westminster to make it illegal. They have already done this at Westminster to overturn Scottish parliament decisions, and the UK Supreme Court have already made clear that the Sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament cannot be challenged.
Scotland can become independent, but becoming independent is, without doubt, going to be illegal in terms of UK law – which is to say Westminster law. There will not be a route to Independence agreed with Westminster.
If you believe in Scottish Independence, you believe that the Scottish nation are a “people” within the meaning of the UN Charter, and thus have an inalienable right of self-determination. That means that Westminster has no right, by legislation or by any other means, to prevent the Scottish people from exercising their self-determination.
I am sorry, but this is the fact: If you believe Scotland should only move to Independence in a Westminster-approved process, you do not really believe in Scottish Independence at all.
Which brings us to Nicola Sturgeon. Her much-trumpeted speech on the way forward following Brexit was disgraceful in explicitly stating that any referendum must be held with Westminster agreement, and that any referendum held without Westminster agreement could be “illegal”. She used the words “illegal” and “wildcat” to denigrate the idea of Scotland acting without Westminster permission.
Even the most loyal to Sturgeon of all major Independence bloggers, like James Kelly and Paul Kavanagh, could not support Sturgeon on this point.
What Sturgeon said amounts to an explicit acknowledgement of UK sovereignty over the Scottish people as both legitimate and immutable. She is accepting that the Act of Union did permanently alienate the right of self-determination. Sturgeon should heed the tale of Toom Tabard as to what respect English rulers show to Scottish leaders who accept their authority. Her speech reinforced my view that she really is much too comfortable in her role of colonial governor.
And yet…
When Sturgeon started talking about calling a Constitutional Convention I first scoffed thinking she was merely fulfilling my prediction that her “plan” would be to start yet another talking shop. But then I was astonished when she outlined the potential membership – the elected representatives of Scotland sitting together, constituting MSPs, MPs, (former) MEPs and council leaders.
I have explained at length over the last two years my proposal for a route to Independence that would lead to recognition by the international community. Donald Tusk today confirmed all I have been saying about the enormous sympathy there will be in the EU towards welcoming Scotland back, now the UK has switched status to third country state. [I knew Donald Tusk reasonably well when I was First Secretary of the British Embassy in Warsaw in the 1990s and he was an out of office politician the same age as me. I should like to think I had an effect!]
But the heart of what I was proposing is this, as I put it in December 2018
The Scottish Parliament should then convene a National Assembly of all nationally elected Scottish representatives – MSPs, MPs and MEPs. That National Assembly should declare Independence, appeal to other countries for recognition, reach agreements with the rump UK and organise a confirmatory plebiscite. That is legal, democratic and consistent with normal international practice.
Or as I put it again two weeks ago:
We should assemble all of Scotland’s MEP’s, MP’s and MSP’s in a National Assembly and declare Independence on the 700th Anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath, thus emphasising the historical continuity of the Scottish state. The views and laws of London now being irrelevant, we should organise, as an Independent state, our referendum to confirm Independence, to be held in September 2020.
Please do read the articles linked if you have not already done so. They explain how Scotland can legitimately become an Independent nation without regard to UK domestic law.
Now, until Sturgeon’s speech, I had never seen anybody else but me put forward the proposal that the way forward is via an assembly of all MPs, MSPs and MEPs, giving the triple legitimacy of democratic election. Sturgeon has enhanced this by adding council leaders.
There is a huge difference between an assembly – or convention – of elected representatives, and an appointed one of the great and the good. This new assembly proposed by Sturgeon is very different indeed in that respect from the Convention of the same name that helped formulate devolution.
Now I do not think for one moment that Sturgeon has convened this Convention to declare Independence. But an assembly of Scotland’s MPs, MSPs, MEPs and council leaders will have a clear Independence majority numerically and a massive Independence majority intellectually. It will have an extremely strong claim to be a properly representative assembly whose members each have a democratic mandate. The French Revolution was of course similarly precipitated by constitutional innovation convening a National Assembly combining the different Estates, and that Assembly was swept along by fervour to take proto-revolutionary measures which went far beyond the initial positions of any of its members.
The dynamic of a new constitutional body whose members feel they command legitimacy, should not be underestimated. The convening of this body will be a real constitutional innovation. We need to make sure, that like that French National Assembly, they can clearly hear a huge mob outside their windows, demanding radical and speedy change.
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In light of Brexit being forced upon an unwilling Scotland, a case for an Independence referendum seems quite justified to me. I do think you are correct that the higher the chance of a break-away, the lesser the willingness of Westminster to grant approval for a new referendum. If the will of the Scottish people is strong enough it will happen though – in my view. Imagine a future where an independent Scotland and united Ireland in say 2030 are full members of the EU, each with a veto power over England trying to join the by then much larger EU (Albania, North Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro….).
@FraPer
Sounds like what Kurt Waldheim and his successors were working toward in the splitting up of a Serbian-dominated Yugoslavia . .Do Scots really want their own Camp Bondsteel, MEK training camps and onward distribution points for the trade in the wake of remaining in NATO or a Macronite -led EU army.Also by 2030 qualified majority voting would presumably trump a Scots-Irish veto.
As Kerchee points out you seem to have not realised that you have just shot yourself in the foot. Aligning an Indipendent Scotland with the NATO supported Balkan nations sounds a great start for a forward looking Scottish nation.
You don’t want anything to do with Kosovo or Montenegro, or worse still, the Ukraine.
There are many nutters who couldn’t care less what foreign policy an independent Scotland might have (in other words the assumption is that Scotland would join NATO) or how many Scottish soldiers are sent off under the NATO agreement to defend Afghanistan against the Afghans, because all they know is they want independence.
They love the idea of sticking it to the English by not allowing England to rejoin the EU too – a kind of horrible nastiness that I’ve never encountered among even the most raving English nationalists towards Scotland, just as nobody whatever in England ever takes a “we support whoever’s playing against Scotland” attitude in the football. Some of them are so crazily into the “it’s England’s fault we’re such big failures” and “Edinburgh University is as good as Cambridge University any day of the week” kick that they mix together a) spreading the lie to the voter masses that it’s “Westminster”, “Tories”, etc. (or whatever other euphemisms are used for ‘an elite of English b*stards”) who are preventing Scotland from being independent, with b) actually believing that lie. The word “cult” comes to mind. Now cults have in the past won, and can have the quality of persistence. But the point is that twisting a) together with b) takes the focus away from who they have REALLY got to persuade if they want independence – and that’s got nothing to do with “Westminster” or “the UK”. It’s “soft Unionists” in Scotland whom they’ve got to win over. And if you look at all the elections that have actually taken place since the 2014 indyref in Scotland they haven’t been very good at doing that. And the more rabid they become, the less chance they’ve got of doing it too. Of course the indynuts could start foaming at the mouth and trying to infect said middle ground with rabies, but then – hopefully! – they’d start losing that portion of the “left” that currently supports them.
The SNP leadership and its “would-be but not quite yet” institutionalised political trougher class is crapping its pants at the thought of losing next year’s Holyrood general election. Its radical wing wouldn’t mind some cracked heads to help it out. (Never mind that seeing Catalonia as a great example to follow is delusional.) That’s why it’s talking about holding a kangaroo referendum even though there has never been 50% support in the polling stations for independence or for parties that support it. (Of course they love YouGov now because of the most recent poll.)
Look at this from the point of view of Dominic Cummings. You will see that the now highly centralised British government is likely to WANT another indyref. Since they also want the SNP out of office in Holyrood, the big question is whether it should be before or after May 2021.
Yet more “total bollocks” from N_…. Keep it up.
Jeff
Took the words out of my mouth . . . . I was going for just bollocks . . . . But aye it is TOTAL Bollocks
N
I can now see why a lot of other contributors do not bother replying sensibly to your rants.
Nothing to be gained from arguing with a mad man. So I’ll just tell you that once again you are posting crap.
The UK is divided amongst itself economically, socially and to an extent culturally. The form of democracy that exists in the UK is imposed on the nation and the aforementioned is a consequence of that – through the aegis of divide and rule.
While I am all for Scottish independence it is more through the lens of meaningful democracy rather than opposition to the imposition of government. Scotsnats see the UK as imposing on them whereas the reality is that the UK government is imposed on all the UK and it is mainly due to the inability of the English to recognise this, largely because they are a divided people who can be swayed this way and that by empty lies and meaningless propaganda.
I would much rather see the desire of a meaningful democracy by all people of the countries that make up the UK to be focused on political reform, through which greater national autonomy could be achieved, and not just through nationhood and which group of nations one wishes to be in union with.
The Scotsnat line appears to be driven towards a desire to escape the clutches of the UK to the embrace of the EU which, while completely understandable, leaves a huge hole in the remaining populations ability to unite around meaningful democratic reform. One is left feeling that if the Scots go, who will no doubt be preceded by the people of NI, then those remaining captive to the imposition of UK government will be less able to resist it.
The real problem is not about notions of independence but complete lack of democratic representation, which is not unique to Scotland but all in the UK. We should all be united for democracy not divided for nationalism.
Heard that argument before. It can take some naive people in.
Don’t leave us help save us says England. After 313 years of abuse by Westminster/England you have some brass neck making that argument.
Save yourself England. We aren’t that good at saving ourselves never mind England. I know terribly selfish of us.
You have spectacularly missed the point and are an example of what I find objectionable to Scottish nationalism, i.e. it’s just nationalism, complete with racial stereotyping (i.e. racism), and not a desire to be better in a true sense, just to be better off. Nationalism as a political ideology is about as appealing today as fascism and communism.
Deb o’Nair
British Nationalism is what you espouse and that has been tragic for the people of Scotland for over three centuries. It ain’t been that good for the Irish or the Welsh either. It’s not racism to point out the people who are your oppressors. You just don’t like the truth. Try taking ownership and follow your own advice of being “better in a true sense”.
You are a Britnat – so if you are so opposed to nationalism – try and stop being a British Nationalist then you might have more credibility.
“British Nationalism is what you espouse…You are a Britnat”
Pure, unadulterated, incoherent drivel.
Deb O’Nair
Britnat heads tend to explode when confronted with the truth. You are no exception.
Do yourself a favour and stop living a lie.
Your technique of putting words in peoples mouths that they have not uttered, combined with absurd assertions that no reasonable person would make based on what I have written, exposes your absolute intolerance and contempt for other peoples point of view – which you ignore in order to engage in insults. Your knee-jerk reaction of bigotry, ignorance and intolerance is exactly why I oppose nationalism in all its guises, it is the politics of division and isolation.
Deb O’Nair
You are a British nationalist deal with it. You throw out “The Scotsnats” in your post but that is not offensive in your Britnat world but if I say you are a Britnat you say it is an insult.
Just another Britnat who can’t handle the truth. You don’t oppose nationalism you are a nationalist – a British nationalist. The type that went round the world enforcing British nationalism via the British Empire.
Your head is exploding – the truth is too much for you.
“Your head is exploding – the truth is too much for you”
Your ranting reminds me very much of William Joyce.
Deb O’Nair
I think your post on Feb3 18.01 meets the definition of a rant most spectacularly.
I think what you post meets the definition of a British Nationalist no problem at all.
“Don’t leave us help save us says England. After 313 years of abuse by Westminster/England you have some brass neck making that argument.”
Yeah, it must have been so tough for the Glasgow slave traders getting bossed around by “Westminster/England” all the time. And let’s remember that Scottish prime ministers of Britain such as Balfour, Campbell-Bannerman, Macdonald, Blair and Brown all complained about having English people wearing top hats order them to polish their shoes every morning.
All nationalism involves telling the poor they’ve got to team up with the rich. It’s all poo.
N
You would know all about Poo as you post crap all the time. They were all British Prime Ministers and you just like them are British Nationalist. So were the Slave traders – British Nationalists.
N you are a British NATIONALIST and you post poo – naw British crap actually.
Do you mean along the lines of opening a new English parliament and converting the Westminster parliament to one that has equal amounts of MPs from each of the four countries England Scotland wales Northern Ireland ?
This can only be done if for example you have more nations such as say, Yorkshire, Cornwall etc .. with similar populations and economic resources
It’s unlikely to be done with MPs but it may well be done with a reformed upper chamber. This is what Gordon Brown is suggesting. Inter-regionalism or whatever we want to call it is a major theme in what Boris Johnson has been saying. It’s much more than a hangover from the December election victory largely down to racist working class voters in the North of England.
We are at most a few weeks away from the publication of the Duke of Cummings’s “reform of the British state” plan…
Gordon Brown doesn’t believe in Federalism. It’s a diversion he and Labour dish up every time the SNP are doing well.
Federalism can’t occur unless England votes for it, and that isn’t going to happen any time soon.
Leading English socialists want Scotland to become independent and flourish, becoming an example to English voters.
N
Gordon Brown the infamous devo max VOW liar from 2014. Get away you Britnat chancer.
Labour have been promising home rule to Scotland for 3 centuries and still you have Britnats like Brown and Starmer trying it on with their transparent promises.
One MP Labour have got in Scotland and still they have learned nothing – like the dinosaurs they are they are on the way to extinction in Scotland.
I think all peoples of the UK, irrespective of political and national identities, should demand reform of the political and electoral system. Some simple reforms, all of which are in effect in one nation or other, would make a big difference in constituting a parliament that is more representative of the majority of the population and end the corporate monopoly on political power.
1. In order to represent a constituency you must have resided there for 5 years.
2. Once elected all forms of alternative income, including donations, should be forbidden.
3. A limit on the number of parliaments an MP can sit in, e.g. 3, which would be about 15 years.
4. No dual-nationals should be able to stand as an MP
5. All elections should be monitored to ensure that they are free and fair.
Nothing radical, just common sense, but it would make a difference.
I can see why you don’t like Scottish nationalism, as it’s a rival to London centric UK nationalism, what I do not understand is how you could be blind to that notion. What is so wrong with an area wanting to determine its own future?
Craig’s proposal seems to be a very wise idea, it is sensible that after all the elected Scottish representatives have made their declaration of independence a plebiscite should be held, and not before, after all the last thing you want in an infant democracy is the nation next door putting their oar in again. They only need to ensure the plebiscite rules do not allow English interference in the matter, unlike the last referendum on Scottish independence.
Craig,
Strangely enough, my ears pricked up at the Constitutional Convention when she announced it but I never made the connection right away or understood the significance of it. Perhaps Brexit day was a good day to bury good news.
I had bookmarked one of your blogs some time ago wherein you discuss the proposed National Assembly (the similarity, of course, was what had the effect on my ears!) and I see what you are getting at now. I would encourage others to read what you have to say in this regard.
I feel more upbeat now, having read your blog, than I did after the FM’s speech.
Did Brexit inspire the French at the rugby?
@Cubby
Isn’t French rugby strongest in the south-west , where a certain Eleanor of Aquitaine married one Edward Duke of Gascony and Hammer of the Scots- ?
Krech’ee
Yeah, that ended well for England eh? And yeah, were still here.
Nope, she married Henry II of England, Duke of Normandy, having first married the king of France. English kings and queens (Katherine of Aragon, at Flodden?) were all Hammers of the Scots, as has every England-as-the-UK government since 1707.
The French, Cubby, are in a terrible pickle, they have been demonstrating on the streets for more than a year, fire fighters, nurses, doctors, teachers, train drivers, all incredibly annoyed that their pensions will be put off.
The unemployment rate in France is more than double the rate in the U.K.
If you wish a French future for your fellows, you are wishing them many hardships.
Typical francophobia. The French are always on strike without it affecting them. At least, they haven’t committed Brexit, which is permanent, as a way of solving their internal problems of sense of abandonment. And they don’t fiddle their unemployment figures.
Laguerre
Except it seems there is constant rioting, even by the pompieres
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-protests-french-police-violence-firefighters-a9306566.html
One incident that lasted a few minutes and was intensively filmed and publicised. I don’t know whether it was big or not. I was not far away at the time, and didn’t hear anything. The pompiers, like the rail-workers, have fabulous terms of service, and a lot to lose.
I seemed to keep reading about France’s troubles this weekend. They seem to be next on the CIA ‘hit list’ after Brexit. Let’s hope their institutions and people are stronger than ours have proved.
The unemployment rate in the U.K. is sham.Approximately 1.8 million people are on insecure contractual work which means anyone working 1 hour or more per week is included in the employment figures. Moreover, there are more than 900,000 people who work in the gig economy. Furthermore, the French enjoy far superior social benefits in comparison to the U.K. besides of course not having to pay extortionate rail fare prices whilst having to be squeezed in like a sardine into often delayed trains as the long suffering commuters on southern rail will testify.
Micron’s banker pals and Germany and the EU commission are banking on him getting rid off all that. But the French people know exactly what’s afoot and are warring the plutocrats.
A bit of an overreaction by Michael Norton and to a lesser extent by Kerch’ee to a simple comment on the rugby.???????
Theoretically, as the Old Scottish Parliament was put into abeyance, not permanently closed, when the Union was formed, and the new Parliament at Westminster sat 300 odd years ago. Then all that is required is for the National Assembly to include all willing Scottish MP’s, (Labour and Tory would be in a minority even if they did attend). As the sovereign people of Scotland elected those MP’s to represent their interests then a vote by the Assembly on independence would be legal, without any further referendum. Don’t get me wrong as I would prefer a referendum, but there will never be another section 30 given, and Westminster is unlikely to recognise any referendum result, even if 90% yes anyway.
Bruce MacDougall
The Scottish Parliament was prorogued back in late 1706 and never reconvened or formally closed. The members of the Scottish parliament signed the Scottish Act of Union in various locations to avoid being lynched by the people of Scotland who were hunting for them.
The parliamentary representatives ( by a majority) signed Scotland up to the union. There were no referendums in those days. If there is no legal (according to Westminster) referendum available then it seems valid for the current parliamentary representatives to end the Union if they so wish by majority. Seems fair and democratic to me.
I tend to agree that even if 95% wanted independence Westminster would not agree to a referendum. It is not and has never been a place of democracy so why should we expect them to start behaving as such now.
Without getting rid of capitalism Scotland like any capitalist country will suffer from the anarchic nature of capitalism. As the Chinese show they are able to deal with a crisis far easily and sustained that capitalist countries. A similar thing happens with the Cubans as well, when there is a crisis. Look at the response of the Cuban communist government during the hurricane season, it’s remarkable response is the complete opposite to US dominated Haiti and other countries in the region.As the great Scottish communist agitator John Maclean, and James Connolly, put it –
All Hail, the Scottish Workers Republic!
by John Maclean
First Published: First issued as All Hail, the Scottish Communist Republic in Aug 1920, and subsequently reissued along with Nov 1922 election address.
Transcription\HTML Markup: Scottish Republican Socialist Movement Archive in 2002 and David Walters in 2003
Copyleft: John MacLean Internet Archive (www.marx.org)1999, 2003. Permission is granted to copy and/or distribute this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License
For some time past the feeling has been growing that Scotland should strike out for national independence, as well as Ireland and other lands. This has recently been strengthened by the English Government’s intention to rely mainly on Scottish troops to murder the Irish race.
Genuine Scotsmen recently asked themselves the question: “Are we Scots to be used as the bloody tools of the English against our brother Celts of Erin?” And naturally the instinctive response was – No!
Again the land seizures by Highland crofters are arousing the blood of Highlandmen driven south to the Clyde Valley for work. Especially the filthy tactics of Lord Leverhume (an English capatalist), whohas dismissed Stornoway wage slaves as a means of beating the Lewis raiders who seized the farms of Coll and Gress. Divide and conquer again!
Scottish students of history now realise that Edinburgh lawyers and politicians sold Scottish independence in 1707, although most blame has fallen on the Earl of Stair. many of us are convinced that ever since 1707 the Edinburgh kings’ and queens’ consels and politicians have been in the regular pay of London to keep Scotland as the base tool of the English government. These scoundrels in the eighteenth century helped to ruin Burns, the peasnats’ and people’s poet.
The “rebellion” of 1715 and 1745 were natural reactions against the treachorous deed of 1707, but these unfortunate outbursts but gave the English the excuse and chance to subdue the Highland chiefs and then corrupt them with an English education at Oxford and Cambridge.
Since 1790 the chiefs became Englishmen in outlook, and used their clansmen to defend English capatalism against the revolution started in Paris in 1789. Since the Napoleonic wars the Highland regiments have been used to defend the stolen lands of England all over the globe, and have largely helped to extend the English empire.
Whilst doing this, the Dukes of Sutherland and Argyll and other chiefs proceeded with the english landlord policy of land clearances. The friends of the fighters were chased of their native heath into the lowlands or out to Canada and Australia.
Now the reaction is beginning – inspired by Ireland and Russia. Scotland must again have independednce, but not to be ruled over by traitor cheifs and politicians. The communism of the clans must be re-established on a modern basis. (Bolshevism, to put it roughly, is but the modern expression of the communism of the mir.) Scotland must therfore work itself into a communism embracing the whole country as a unit. The country must have but one clan, as it were – a united people working in co-operation and co-operatively, using the wealth that is created.
We can safely say, then: back to communism and forward to communism.
The control must be in the hands of the workers only, male and female alike, each workshop and industry sending delegates to district councils and the National Council. The National Council must be based in or near Glasgow, as half the population lives within a radius of twenty miles from Glasgow.
In the period of transition a wage-earners dictatorship must guide production, and the adoption of the machinery and methods of production, to communist methods.
Many Irishmen live in Scotland, and, as they are Celts like the Scots, and are out for Irish independence, and as wage-earners have been champion fighters for working class rights, we expect them to ally themselves with us, and help us to attain our Scottish Communist Republic, as long as they live in Scotland. Irishmen must remember that communism prevailed amongst the Irish clans as amongst the Scottish clans, so that, in lining up with Scotsmen they are but carrying forward the traditions and instincts of the Celtic race.
All hail the Scottish Workers’ Republic!
This analysis in the 1920s is as relevant today as it was then, if not more so, as English chauvinism and reactionary nationalism is on the rise again.
Sturgeon and Craig both state that ‘every Scot that have been elected at a national level’ MEPs, MPs and MSPs, should play a part in a national assembly. Sturgeon has added council leaders in an attempt to head off wider participation. Firstly, why is it only confined to those that have been ‘elected’ under the ‘democracy’ allowed by UK convention. You can’t complain that Westminster government is stopping an independence vote as that is their right, to then say we’ll only have those Scots who have been elected under the very system and people you are complaining about. ‘Every Scot elected’ includes trade unions, co-operative societies, community centres etc in fact anywhere and everywhere the people participate in ‘democracy’. It’s idiotic and anti democratic to solely confine the national assembly to those elected under Westminster tutelage. We need a democracy that draws in even wider the Scottish people street committees, factory/office committees, social club committees, area committees, city wide committees in other words democratic centralism. Bottom up to encourage the widest participation and elect those with the strongest leadership credentials, argued for and debated and voted for in an open way amongst the people.
Secondly, without the widest participation independence will be frustrated and possibly lost. Large sections of the working class in Scotland have shifted leftwards and pushed the SNP further and further leftwards than some want to go. Without taking the issues into working class communities further, Scotland will find it more difficult to get independence. The mass Scottish anti poll tax demonstrations that drwe in ever more Scots to the banner played a major role in forcing the Thatcher to abandon the poll tax.It may be argued, why swap one capitalist country, the UK for another capitalist country Scotland. In a way, that is what the Tories/Unionists/Labourites etc want the debate to focus on ‘how well’ the SNP runs capitalism in Scotland, health, education, bin collection, etc. The Scottish working class have a very proud and long history of struggle against capitalism, during the illegal war against Iraq Scottish train drivers refused to move military equipment, and will gather around the banner of Scottish Independence but it will be curtailed and attempted to deflect by the ‘issues’ like health, education, bin collection. The debates are in the open and attempting to contain them within a National Assembly without widespread involvement, including in the National Assembly, will be a disservice to the people of Scotland.
The Scots are not cummunists and will never be.
I think you don’t know your history.
Tarla;
“….Scottish train drivers refused to move military equipment, and will gather around the banner of Scottish Independence….”
If only. Unfortunately train drivers are amongst the most right wing and ‘elitist’ groups of workers, as evidenced by their “trade union” ASLEF who are absolutely opposed to Scottish independence. The main rail union, the RMT, however, allowed it’s Scottish members a vote and if it had been up to them Scotland would have become independent in 2014.
A united Ireland will happen just before Scotland regains its independence. England will have to rely on liar Johnson and his deranged English nationalists. That’s what England voted for after all. No sympathy.
Even if Scotland declaring independence were legal in international law, on the basis of past examples (Chagos, Israel, etc), what on earth makes you think that the Westminster government would in any way obey it?
Paul Breslaw
Thanks for pointing out another reason we do not want to be governed by Westminster. It’s getting rid of the parasites that is the problem.
How should we deal with the unionist parties Conservative, Labour and libs who will oppose any convention findings.
Another Scottish Parliament election with a wi gs party in the list to get them out would be good
As Alexander Berkman said to strikers ‘the bosses can shoot you to death but they can’t shoot you to work’.
Andy
The Scottish parliament should pass a law that states that only true Scottish parties can take part in Scot parliament elections. No London controlled parties.
Your wonderful SNP are controlled English opposition. Their remit is to keep the people believing they believe in independence. This position was slipped by another country.
The economics are not in place. Why has this not been prepared earlier? Where is the monetary and fiscal policy? Economies in transition experience and practice from the banking sector in eastern europe. Where is the currency.
Scotland, a diseased corrupt country. A new start begins with removing every single establishment member, politicians, cops, teachers, councillors, everyone corrupt or corruptible. Sturgeon knew Scottish money was going to murder innocent people in Syria never raised it or refused to send Scottish money without confirmation it would not go to support London’s regime change operation. An inconvenient truth, lets ignore that one.
The Dunblane report. Another inconvenient truth. The Hollie Greig case, lets also ignore this. It points to a corrupt and sexually deviant ruling class. Lets ignore that in the push for independence.
Merging with Europe might give some cover but does anyone actually believe any European state would come to Scotland’s aid should Johnston send the army in? Of course not. Protestors in target countries are not be harmed acording to Pompous. The British army would simply murder anyone who stood in their way. Thats what they do. Europe is a fleabag of mostly poorly performing countries. While people voiced their dislike for unchecked immigration they appear to have forgotten the problems came from countries outside the Union. Pakistan and India. That will not change.
Sturgeon will do as she is told and sell you all down the river. They don’t really have any control. The wealthy and influential make the decisions. International finance controls politicians and that is controlled by incredibly wealthy families.
What would you be fighting for should Johnston send in the army? You would be fighting to keep the same foul establishment in power who will cheer from the bunkers, tell you all how brave you are and tell your family how much they appreciate your sacrifice. Your so-called leaders are cowards. World War 2 kept the same bunch of foul grunting toffs in power. Churchill waved the flag while young men who had no gripe with anyone in the countries they were sent were murdered’ spouting his speeches which were certainly not written by himself. Churchill was a poor gambler and alcoholic nothing better. Essential qualities for a coward.
Scotland should decide its own destiny not London. Should London send in the army to quell an uprising or a declaration of independence the war would be to stop them murdering people and destroying property. London should not believe they will just roll in and everyone will surrender. The last time they occupied Scotland they murdered, raped, stole and destroyed the country. This will not happen again. “End the Occupation” is a better slogan than independence ??
Sinn Fein is doing very well in recent polls in Ireland, and elections are imminent. A Sinn Fein government in Ireland is likely to look on the cause of Scottish independence with sympathy. If Scotland were to sue to join a federation with Ireland, I think a Sinn Fein Irish government would accept the offer. And in such a federation, Scotland would automatically be in the EU.
If the British army were to invade a Scotland belonging to the EU, how could the rest of the EU stand aside?
did not Ireland get independance in 1920s same system difference same system.
Nicola is too caught up in her own personal problems at the moment. She’d be better passing on the baton and let someone else lead the cause.
Dear Craig.
I share your view if the most effective way to achieve our unions end.
I run a video blog each day called “In-D-Car”
And must insist you come for an interview as my guest.
The wee show gets 570,000 views per month these days, and at the recent Inverness march I was amazed at the hundreds of people who came up and hugged me, shook my hand or wanted selfies!
There were 4000 said they come, but over 12,000 showed up. High times poll last week showed 90%+ for Independence.
Please let me interview you, so we can fully discuss on live TV, the realities of ending British Colonial rule here.
Not by “domestic laws” and begging or hoping for permission, but by actually holding a referendum in defiance of London.
I follow your Shows Gordon..
The one about EU policy to have all cars electric ( By When I can’t recall ) but Scotland selling electricity to the EU could be worth Trillions you say.. What episode was that again ?
Anyway.. It would be good to have Craig on the Show.
Gordon, use the “Invite Craig to Speak” link at the top of the page.
Given goodwill from all parties a Convention may be a viable option.
However, where is that goodwill to come from?
What happens if everybody, apart from the SNP and Greens, refuse to have anything to do with it?
Leave them in their phone box
https://i.imgur.com/y0xrXOd.jpg – “The EU commission building last night. Leaving a light on for Scotland”
A nice gesture.
And Here in Inverclyde had our own shoe –
Freezing wind chill in Vast open spaces – Friday 31st Jan –
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132108640@N08/49481023497/in/dateposted-friend/
“Johnson is for once honest when he says keeping the Union together is his top priority.”
But you say: –
“There is no political damage for Johnson in unpopularity in Scotland. In England, his anti-Scots stance is very popular with their Cummings core support base of knuckle-dragging, ill-educated racists.”
These two statements are not logically consistent. Do you really believe that Cummings is a knuckle-dragging, ill educated racist? I do not think the irrelevant Donald Tusk is much of a reference. His own government disowned him as President of the EU, but the EU ignored the Poles and kept him on anyway. This ought to be an awful warning for any Scots thinking the EU would be a cosy place to be independent. Macron is already cooking up plans to make sure that independence is no longer possible within the EU, especially for small countries and Scotland is a lot smaller than Poland.
Toom Tabard – John (de) Balliol – Empty Coat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balliol
That was a new one for me.
A convocation of ScotNat MSPs, MPs, ex-MEPs and local worthies will be a constitutional gab-fest like no other.
One up vote on that Stuart!!!
From the “Scotnat” perspective I am very much afraid that you are correct.
I think it is more likely than not, that all parties that have MSPs, MPs, former MEPs and Council Leaders, other than the SNP and Greens, will have nothing to do with it.
How then would the SNP leadership deal with that?
“A convocation of ScotNat MSPs, MPs, ex-MEPs and local worthies will be a constitutional gab-fest like no other.”
About time the they did grab everything, the BritNats have taken enough from Scotland, no more I say.
That it is necessary to spell this out in big characters to nationalists is an indicator of how parochial and British the national movement has become, something which its ideological forebears were not.
What we have experienced over the Brexit years is a fine exemplar of that tunnel visioned and exceptionalist parochialism which has simply led back to ‘try again’.
Our chemin de la liberté has been paved with the presumed good intention of working within the British legal construct. I cannot think of any freedom movement in the world that has been bound by such outlandish rules.
The thinkers and strategist in Edinburgh might do well to look around them, discard the provincial and endeavour to be more politically urbane and cosmopolitan in their perceptions. There is a sufficiency of historic models to engage the enquiring mind.
The “ideological forebears” of the Scottish National movement were many things – some – let’s shall we say – holding views on interwar European political developments that would be regarded as beyond the pale today.
What many early protagonists wanted was in reality home rule within the British Empire, perhaps “Dominion Status”.
Perhaps some kind of modern form of “Dominion Status”, semi-detached so to speak, might find some favour with the British Establishment?
Ottomanboi, there would be nothing wrong with Sturgeon’s approach if the British state simply respected democratic outcomes. It’s on the basis that they don’t that her strategy since 2016 has failed and it’s on the basis of its failure that the strategy must be dumped.
I don’t see how she can stay and keep the strategy, it would be to admit 4 years wasted, and so for that reason we should expect her to resign.
4 years would be a terrible amount of time to waste in any circumstances. In the middle of the brexit debacle, those 4 wasted years represent the biggest blow to our country’s hopes imaginable.
Sturgeon should resign immediately. Her strategy has failed us and potentially set Scottish independence back decades.
Actually Craig, inviting council leaders to a national convention is not a good idea. A majority of Scottish councils have SNP as the biggest party but the opposition parties have gone into coalition to keep them out of power. Most leaders of councils are not SNP or independence supporters. Adding council leaders to the mix would go far in negating the elected representatives’ independence supporting majority. I don’t know how far because I haven’t got the figures to hand, but do look into it yourself…
Sorry, Craig, but you have more confidence in the pledges of Sturgeon and the potential for a Convention than can be justified. It’s clearly aimed at buying Sturgeon time and therefore hardly surprising that we need to wait to see what comes of it.
The Tusk interview on the BBC was interesting only because it was broadcast. The effect of it is to bolster Sturgeon and her current strategy. The BBC wouldn’t normally broadcast stuff like that but we have a new political landscape in Scotland today — “SNP Bad” is over.
The timing of the Tusk interview and the Unison statement of support should ring alarm bells. The British State likes the Sturgeon strategy because it leads to nothing and it’s hardly surprising that they want to see it continue and bolster her at a time when there’s a risk chance that she might be dislodged.
The real fear for The State and the SNP is a breakaway independence movement. That’s their common enemy. “SNP Bad” has been replaced by “Independence Bad but Nicola Good”. You’ll see more confirming this in the next few days then, as her position is secured, they’ll revert to ignoring us.
The EU for its part is hedging bets and being nice at the cost of nothing. If there are lights left on at night, it’s more likely explained by their negotiating team working on the best way to secure access to Scottish fish stocks. I’m not criticising them — they can’t scupper their future relations with Britain over a country a tenth of its size that doesn’t even exist.
The first and most important step in the right direction towards Scottish independence would be to replace the SNP leadership. There’s two ways of doing that — replace Sturgeon with someone else or replace the SNP as the leadership of the independence movement. I prefer the latter approach.
The legitimacy you look for as far as UDI and taking matters into our own hands is concerned is provided by Boris himself— we don’t need to delve into the UN charter or ancient claims.
When Boris and the British state changed the rules of parliamentary democracy and announced that it was vote share rather than seats that mattered, they effectively cancelled democracy. And if democracy has been cancelled, anything goes as far as declaring independence and indyref2 is concerned. There’s your legitimacy right there.
Hatuey
I did get a shock when Reporting Scotland were being positive about steady as she goes and interviewing independence supporters (or plants) saying there is no shortcut and we don’t want to end up like Catalonia etc etc.
Who knows with these devious deceitful bastards. I wouldn’t put anything past them. If they can put undercover agents in to the IRA and then authorise them to murder people then they can do anything.
I believe that the Britnats know there is a majority for independence now and that it will only continue to grow so they need to do something to stop it leading to independence. Democrats they are not.
Actually, on the specific issue of the Scottish and British establishment changing its approach to the SNP and giving them more favourable coverage, and to be clear we are talking about a very typical neo-colonial puppet government relationship here, with, as Craig suggests, Nicola as colonial governess, the first evidence of that can be found in the response to the SNP’s manifesto just a few weeks ago; the BBC loved it and openly praised it.
Thank you so much for this. I knew it’d never be an easy journey. like thousands, I was in the streets and experienced in 2014, the enormity of Westminster’s deep rooted power at the polling stations. And I was frightened. I underestimated them. You’re spot on, Independence will never be gained through the establishment in Westminster. It can only happen through creative, collaborative, determination by all.
A couple of interesting points, will Boris Johnson give concessions to the EU in a deal, in return for the EU not openly encouraging Scottish independence. Will the EU play hardball with Boris Johnson (because the UK can’t seem to get a better deal than a member). Knowing fine well that they’ll get a second bite at the cherry (fishing rights etc) after Scotland becomes independent, with the EU openly supporting our goal.
The Canada style deal that Johnson supposedly wants, might end up becoming a no deal Brexit. For Johnson knows fine well, that the UK cannot get a good as deal as we already had as a member.
Ideally we’d be independent before Johnson sells out our fishing and farming sectors for Londons benefit. It would be most pleasing to know that as he (Johnson) sat around the table that Scottish assets were off the table and they could not be used to benefit English interests as per usual.
Its still possible.
Republic of Scotland,
very unlikely that Boris and Gove will sell the fishermen down the river, it was one of the mantras of Brexit
“Take Back Control of Our Seas”
The U.K. is going to soar ahead, now we have left the E.U.
It is expected, as always that No Deal will be the one we go for, now to be repackaged as Australia Deal.
We will soon be eating all our own fish.
“The French can whistle” quote Michael Gove
“Republic of Scotland,
very unlikely that Boris and Gove will sell the fishermen down the river, it was one of the mantras of Brexit”
Michael.
You’ve been commenting in here long enough now, I’d have thought that the naivety would’ve washed off you by now, apparently not.
Michael Norton
If you have your way the only thing we will be eating is fish and then in 20 years time there will no fish left and people will be begging to get back in to the EU.
You are the sort of person who has selective amnesia. The Tories promised that during the transition period the Common Fisheries policy would be defunct. It isn’t. Just another broken Tory promise.
The Tories will sell out Scottish fisherman – more fool them – just like you Michael – for believing them.
Still waiting for Johston to get in to his ditch – any ditch will do in any part of the world.
Cubby, essentially there will be no transission period, it is you who have been hoodwinked.
We have left the E.U.
there will be no meaningful deal, there never was going to be a meaningful deal, the last three and a half years of shenanigans
was a sort of smoke and mirror swirling effect
to distract the Remaniacs.
You’ve been had old boy.
Michael Norton
Are you in a parallel universe. We are in the transition period right now.
I’m not your old boy and I’ve even not been had – whatever that means in your parallel universe.
The more you Britnat Tory Brexiteer bampots arse about the more the polls increase for Scottish independence. Cheers, keep up the good work.
You say it’s still possible but that requires a change of direction and probably leadership that loyalists (like you), not to mention the current SNP leadership itself, will not countenance.
The more likely scenario, which I might as well call a prediction or expectation, is that the UK government will offer sturgeon some sort of crumb of consideration or token role in the negotiations. She’ll grab it as proof that her strategy is working in some way. That leads to nothing for us, of course, in terms of indyref2.
Our best chance of independence now rests on Salmond being acquitted on all charges and declaring on the steps of the court that he intends to return to the SNP and oust the scheming imposters. I give that about a 25% chance.
It’s bleak. Brexit gave us several chances, the insults of May, her lack of a majority, her toppling, etc., etc., and all of them were squandered. I blame SNP loyalists who in my opinion are every bit as stupid as those Brexit supporters people enjoy laughing at.
Blind loyalty to Nicola has destroyed the independence movement. And now she has the British establishment behind her too. I literally predicted all this on here years ago.
Leaving aside independence, deportation of EU nationals is another area where the SNP could take a bolder line. Hand-wringing speeches about how awful it all is, and how we really need these people to stay, butter no parsnips. In wartime Poland, many villages adopted a policy of sheltering a Jew in every house – if everyone was guilty, nobody would tell. But being caught meant death, or worse. We face no such sanctions (yet?), so SNP leadership of a peaceful campaign of non-cooperation with such barbarism would be hard to criticise.
But then a similar question to independence arises: if the SNP won’t lead it, who will?
Almost exactly how Norway did it Craig! Time was of the essence then too.
https://www.stortinget.no/no/Stortinget-og-demokratiet/Grunnloven/Eidsvoll-og-grunnloven-1814/
Quick translation: <>
A CHALLENGE TO ENGLAND AND THE ENGLISH
IS THIS A DEMOCRACY?
1. At any time England can have full independence by voting in Westminster to end the Treaty of Union 1707. Yes at ANY TIME english MPs who have an overwhelming number of MPs in Westminster could just end the Union. The English MPs do not have to ask Scotland for a sect 30 – permission to hold a referendum and commit to honour the result. They don’t have to consult Wales or N. Ireland. They can just turn up and vote to end the Union.
2. Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland cannot have its MPs just turn up at Westminster and vote to leave the Union. The English MPs are like the prison governors only they can vote to allow Wales , Scotland or N. Ireland free.
3. The UK did not have to ask permission from the EU to have a vote to leave but Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland need to ask permission to leave the UK.
4. The Westminster arrangement was established hundreds of years ago in a different era with a different idea of what was acceptable between nations and what was considered a democracy. Over 300 years and this arrangement has not changed. Why – because it suits the English to retain full control. It is a dictatorship by the English not a democracy.
5. If Westminster was truly a democratic UK Parliament when devolution took place there would have been an English parliament created and Westminster would have been reformed to create equality amongst England, Wales Scotland and N. Ireland.
6. After 313 years there has only been a reform to Westminster parliament to facilitate EVEL. thus making every other MP from Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland second class MPs..
7. The reality is that Westminster is in practice an English parliament masquerading as a UK parliament.
8. The reality is that the so called mother of parliaments is no more than a prison for Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland. A phoney democracy for all except England.
Even if the English thought Scotland was being mercilessly oppressed – and they dont – what do you think they’re likely to do about it?
If Scots feel oppressed then it’s up to them to them to do what oppressed peoples have done throughout history. Which isn’t to try and vault some check list of technocratic hurdles imposed by their oppressors.
(Btw Northern Ireland, or at least the intended majority there, do not share your perspective at all. Their greatest desire is to be locked into a British ‘prison’ forever.)
Greg Park
Thanks for documenting that democracy means nothing to you and for confirming the points I made.
With regards to N. Ireland there may well be a majority who want to remain in their prison. Plenty of long term prisoners come to love being in prison – particularly if they are born in to it and know nothing else. That is sad but if they ever want to leave in the future who holds the key. English MPs.
You didn’t answer my question.
Greg Park
You didn’t answer my original question – so I’ll wait for you to go first.
I fully accept it isn’t democratic and if I was Scottish I would would want out.
Your turn.
Greg Park
So you take no responsibility for the situation at all and are going to do nothing about it. You facilitate this situation by doing nothing.
Greg Park
You asked what do I think the English are likely to do about it. You answered your own question – nothing – thats what I think.
The hypocrisy of all the English going on about democracy for other countries in the world knows no bounds.
Shocking innit?
Just as well you’ve got Nicola Sturgeon – aka The New Michael Collins – putting the fear of Christ up the Tory government.
Greg Park
So much for the fraud of a family of nations.
Not much of a family when one of the family steals from the others and keeps them prisoners.
“(Btw Northern Ireland, or at least the intended majority there, do not share your perspective at all. Their greatest desire is to be locked into a British ‘prison’ forever.)”
Really?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/slight-majority-for-irish-reunification-in-northern-ireland-poll-claims-950152.html
I’d imagine that figure might be a bit higher post Brexit. Who’d want to be a prisoner of England? Apart from the co-opted regional yes men and women, who know the gravy train will end if NI re-unifies with the Republic.
Cubby.
Here’s where the GERS deficit originates.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1194717968128716800
The intended majority from day one in Northern Ireland are people who define themselves by a desire to be British. A vastly more numerous group than a few co-opted placemen and women. They are still an electoral majority there, as evidenced by the identity of the first minister.
Greg Park
They define themselves as British Nationalists. No different from all the British Nationalists that were created by the British Empire throughout the world.
So more than willing prisoners then.
Greg Park
Plenty of willing prisoners. It’s called the Stockholm syndrome.
If the Scots really want independence but fear that the English will block it then I have a suggestion.
What is needed is an unwavering public relations campaign focusing on notable historic Scottish Nationalist leaders – people such as Arthur Donaldson. Once the mass of the people in England understand just how enamored Donaldson was with Hitler and the Nazis then the English may develop a nauseous reaction to all things Scottish. Try to emphasise that Donaldson truly believed that Hitler posed less of a threat to Scotland than the threat posed by the English.
A happy side effect of such a campaign would be to smoke out Scottish fifth columnists – perhaps the kind of people that lost members of their family fighting in World War 2.
Loony Tunes
GTF ya loony – have you never heard of a guy called Mosley and his merry band of blackshirts from Merry old England.
You can always tell a loony – they always bring wars in to their post – particularly WW2.
You are mixing up the message.
Some people may read your comment as implying that there is a great deal of similarity between England and Scotland. Forget all about English fascists and concentrate on Scottish fascists. Or do you really not want independence at all?
If you don’t like the war then try the EU. In the 1975 referendum the SNP were vehemently opposed to UK membership of the then EEC. English voters took a different view and forced Scotland to remain locked into the EEC against its will. Fast forward 40 years and the view of the SNP was the opposite. Naturally they never felt any need to explain what underpinned their Damascene conversion. Now Scotland is being forced out of the EU against its will.
It is almost as though the SNP couldn’t care less about the EU but just adopt any position that they they feel is the opposite of the prevailing view in England. The SNP a political party whose only principal is the principal of expediency. Maybe you could make it into a slogan.
Loony tunes
62% of the people of Scotland voted to remain.
Your slogan should be – ” I am a loony and I talk a lot of mince”.
Another one that shouldn’t be encouraged, Cubby.
Don’t worry about “Loony” – I’m pretty sure that’s a parody account. He’s always licking the boots of Trump and telling us what a genius he us, then saying the NHS has got to go, and so on. Pure trolling one might think, but it can be darkly comedic at times – there are Trump worshipers out there who probably do completely believe this crap, with a level of credulity that would bring tears to the eyes of a Scientologist.
answer what he is putting forward with facts againts his proposition
No point. Loony just brings along US based right-wing talking points and praises Trump. He’s not interested in dialogue, only in condescending to sane people and pretending dog-eat-dog capitalism and far right ideology is mainstream thought.
Trolling, a parody account, or some bought and paid for right wing operative – of which there are a huge number.
EU countries taking down Union Jack and replacing them with the Saltire, are EU countries expressing an opinion now that the UK is out of the EU.
It could solidarity, as Holyrood and Bute house defy the unionists and fly the EU flag high.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DougieMacM/status/1223572240702300166
Meanwhile.
Germans for Scottish Independence have organised a march in Berlin this April. The German plea for Scottish independence comes two days before the 700th anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath.
The organisers want anyone who’s able to attend to do so. The march will end outside the British embassy in Berlin with a rallying cry for Scottish independence.
I’m gobsmacked at the support our EU brothers and sisters have for us. I hope we can repay them in kind by becoming independent and join the EU family.
“Germans for Scottish Independence have organised a march in Berlin this April.”
How very altruistic of them.
Certainly no chance of the English doing the same that’s for sure.
Pre Brexit Survation poll, which means they’ve sat on it. Still show yes ahead in the polls and over 50%.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/02/super-survation-survey-sees-yes-soar.html#comment-form
ROS
I think there will be a big increase in the number of polls Commissioned by Britnats not being published.
As lying is in their DNA the Britnats will continue to refer back to 2014 and claim there is no majority for anything in Scotland and for anything and state Scotland is our prisoner from now to infinity and beyond.
Johnson will be doubling his £5 million Propaganda spend as the standard propaganda of controlling broadcasting in Scotland and all the newspapers except the National is failing him. Heads may roll in BBC Reporting Scotland?? Donalda your times up.???
Those McZionists sure are persistent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
Craig, I put almost exactly this suggestion to a yes voting , AUOB marching, SNP member friend recently. He threw up his hands in horror at the idea. We will need to work very hard to convince the “cringe”. Possibly once the assembly is up and running it would gather momentum among the fearties.
possibly a machivellian ploy to enrich tories in England and free Scotland. how you ask….
acrimony.
Scotland WILL be independent one day using any plethora of ways to deliver it; court, ICJ, scot law, UDI, indyref, whatever the reason….. Westminster must not agree or respect the outcome….. thus acrimony. the Reason, well, that’s simple…..
64% of the UK debt mountain is a self accounting adjustment of the Westminster govt policy….. meaning it was money borrowed into existence from nowhere on the backs of the buying power and saving power and GDP of the taxpayers as lenders of last resort….. the govt borrowed FROM ITSELF. this means 64% of the entire debt can be debt forgiven,
which leaves 800-900 bn left in re evaluated debt, inc an economic and currency value re evaluation by the stock markets of the UK plc……
which takes to why the acrimony…… the twist…..
well, as we all know the debt share accountable to Scotland is only because we would AGREE to share the debt for assets, equitability.
the UK plc is liable for that debt. not Scotland……
and as such, with no good will or good faith, and under no obligation of contract, Scotland would renege on our asset share and debt share and declare “successor state status”, walk away without trade arrangements or a “negotiated settlement”….
at WHICH time, ENGLAND will also declare “successor state status” ! dissolving the union, ending the UK plc and reneging on the debts accrued by the UK plc…… or we could accept the leftover debts together as successor states of the UK plc, of 800-900 bn, to negate the sanctions and penalties and embargos from other WTO entities/creditors that would follow such a situation…..
but….. such an action is lawful, and would free the tories to control England forever more and leaves them to control Scotland forNever more….. England as England, Scotland as Scotland. through acrimony and deception… typical tories haha