I have always been very fond of this photo, for reasons which are perhaps obvious. We are left to right Celia, Stuart, Neil, Craig and throughout our childhood we really were that close and that happy. The reason that I post this now is that my mother always told me she was amazed how good we looked in the photo, because it was taken when we were all off school sick with Hong Kong flu.
The Hong Kong flu pandemic of 1968/9 was the last really serious flu pandemic to sweep the UK. They do seem extraordinarily regular – 1919, 1969 and 2020. Flu epidemics have much better punctuality than the trains (though I cheated a bit there and left out the 1958 “Asian flu”). Nowadays “Hong Kong flu” is known as H3N2. Estimates for deaths it caused worldwide vary from 1 to 4 million. In the UK it killed an estimated 80,000 people.
If the current coronavirus had appeared in 1968, it would simply have been called “flu”, probably “Wuhan flu”. COVID-19 may not be nowadays classified as such, but in my youth flu is definitely what we would have called it. The Hong Kong flu was very similar to the current outbreak in being extremely contagious but with a fairly low mortality rate. 30% of the UK population is estimated to have been infected in the Hong Kong flu pandemic. The death rate was about 0.5%, mostly elderly or with underlying health conditions.
But there was no massive panic, no second by second media hysteria, over Hong Kong flu. Let me start being unpopular. “Man in his 80’s already not very well from previous conditions, dies of flu” is not and should not be a news headline. The coverage is prurient, intrusive, unbalanced and designed to cause hysteria.
Consider this: 100% of those who contract coronavirus are going to die. 100% of those who do not contract coronavirus are also going to die. The difference in average life expectancy between the two groups will prove to be only very marginal. That is because the large majority of those who die of COVID-19 will already be nearing the end of life or have other health problems.
Let me make this important statement. I write as somebody whose heart and lungs are damaged and in poor condition, following the multiple bilateral pulmonary emboli which nearly killed me in 2004, which mysteriously appeared at precisely the time the UK and US governments were desperately trying to get rid of me as Ambassador, just a couple of weeks after I had been finally cleared of all the false charges with which the British government had attempted to fit me up. I was in a coma for days and subsequently given a maximum of three years to live (read Murder in Samarkand for the full story). If I get COVID-19 I expect I shall be fairly quickly gone off on my next adventure.
But I am OK with that. I have lived an incredibly full and satisfying life. I have no desire whatsoever to die – I have a wife and children I love deeply and I have important political battles I wish to fight. But human beings are not supposed to live forever and one day my time will come.
What worries me about the current reaction to coronavirus, is that it seems to reflect a belief that death is an aberration, rather than a part of the natural order of things. As the human species continues to expand massively in numbers, and as it continues casually to make other species extinct, it is inevitable that the excessive and crowded human population will become susceptible to disease.
As we see the catastrophic effects of human beings on the environment, including on other species and the climate, I am genuinely perplexed as to what are the underlying assumptions and goals of humankind. Do we really believe that medical science could and should eliminate all disease? There are numerous, well-funded medical scientists working very hard on research into the idea that ageing itself is a process that can be prevented. Because that is a notion very attractive to wealthy westerners, more money is being spent on preventing ageing than on fighting malaria and other tropical diseases. Where does this end? Do we really want a world – or at least a wealthy word – where everybody gets to be a centenarian? What are the effects of that on overall population, on demographics, economics and the allocation of finite resources including food and housing?
The mass hysteria around the current coronavirus is being driven by a societal rejection of the notion that the human species is part of the wider ecology, and that death and disease are unavoidable facts, with which it ought to be part of the human condition to come to terms. Let me offer a comforting thought to those of you who have bought into the hysteria. I have no doubt whatsoever that mortality rates from the coronavirus are being exaggerated. They are all based on extrapolation from those who have been tested, but there exists a very large population of people, worldwide, who have or have had the coronavirus, whose symptoms have been those of a cold or non-existent, who have not put themselves forward for testing. The Hong Kong flu had a mortality rate of 0.5% and I believe that ultimately COVID-19 will prove to be very similar. Just like flu once you get it, the only difference being it is more contagious so more people will get it.
Yes wash your hands, bin your tissues, keep things clean. Don’t hang around someone who has the flu. Take advantage of everything modern medicine can do to help you. But don’t be too shocked at the idea that some sick people die, especially if they are old. We are not Gods, we are mortal. We need to reconnect to that idea.
All human deaths are individual tragedies. I wish all solace and comfort to the grieving, and in no way wish to minimise the pain of individual loss of anybody of any age (I lost my own mother not long ago), or that even a small number of child deaths in particular will be dreadfully painful. My deepest and heartfelt condolences go to all the bereaved, and my warm regards go to all the sick and the worried. But the perspective of the wider place of human life in the cosmos is a help in grieving. The purpose of this blog remains not to shirk from saying what might be unpopular. I do hope people will start to consider COVID-19 in a more measured way.
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A reminder for those that still live in denial:
“Please, please guys. Here in northern #Italy we made one big mistake. Everybody kept saying “It’s just flu” and now our intensive care units are collapsing. Everybody kept going outside like nothing happened and now our grandparents and parents are dying.
#coronavirus is not #flu”
https://twitter.com/labisbeticah/status/1236954229186723840
United Kingdom
A man in his early 80s became the sixth person with the virus to die in the U.K.
Meanwhile, many airlines cut thousands of flights, including to and from Italy, in the wake of the outbreak.
According to the latest figures, there were 373 confirmed cases as of 09:00 GMT Tuesday.
Momentum seems to be building for Italy status.
So far death rate in United Kingdom is
1.6%
Well said Craig. My own father has health issues,including a spell in hospital with double pneumonia 4 years ago. He is taking sensible precautions to avoid it. As you rightly say it is not headline worthy if someone elderly and vulnerable succumbs to flu like viruses. Happens all the time. Just this time the strain is more contagious.
No !! This virus is nothing like the flu. Very different action on the lungs. So, all, beware of these misleading preconceptions.
For those who speak italian:
https://bergamo.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/20_marzo_07/coronavirus-bergamo-medico-humanitas-facebook-situazione-drammatica-altro-che-normale-influenza-4fdf6866-6088-11ea-8d61-438e0a276fc4.shtml
and those who speak french:
https://www.les-crises.fr/recommande-coronavirus-au-coeur-des-tenebres-en-italie-en-premiere-ligne-dans-la-guerre-contre-le-coronavirus/
They say there are lies damn lies and statistics.
Before posting I read all previous blogs. No one has mentioned the method of testing to confirm Covid-19. When the number of reported confirmed cases jumped in a single day. It was revealed that China had changed its method of testing. Instead of using blood tests it was using CT scans. Looking for white glassy patches signifying fluid in the lungs. There are also reports of drive through testing where temperature and saliva swabs are taken. The lowering of testing standards could produce more false positives. If the death toll reported is accurate this could either produce and under or over reporting of cases. Linking this to infection rates is even more difficult.
There may be more infected than tested. But testing more could produce more false positives.
After the Swine Flue pandemic of 2009 that proved to be a false prediction that profited drug companies and other such cases. It is not surprising if people are sceptical. It is like the boy who called wolf. But is the call to be heeded or ignored.
No one has mentioned that Seasonal Flue is so named as the Flue seems to be more prevalent in certain seasonal conditions, The cure could just be spring.
False prediction? Atleast some 600´000 died from the swine flu, not to mention the impact on health it had for the people that survived it.
No one profits since there is no cure as of yet and people are dying right now.
Many different numbers of dead as result of swine flue have been reported
https://www.livescience.com/41539-2009-swine-flu-death-toll-higher.html
This reports maybe 203 thousand but states that is ten times previous estimates of 20 thousand . Small compared to seasonal flue.
As for no one profiting
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/apr/28/glaxo-pharmaceuticals-sales-figures
how about Glaxo smith Kline who made many millions
Brian
Why are you obsessed with profit? Every time you buy something someone “profit” from it.
I would be more than grateful for whatever company that could produce a cure for this virus. How would a company produce such a potent remedy if there was no money involved for research, production, tests etc?
If someone makes a profit, then whatever they made a profit from has to be a hoax. First rule of business!
If someone works out how to make a profit from, say, solar panels (manufacture or the installation of), or the government cynically introduces a “Green tax” on petrol without providing any useful alternative way of travel, then global warming is therefore a hoax.
It takes quite a blinkered view to think this way, of course, because they never look at the other side of the equation. The fact that the tobacco industry, or the fossil fuel and car manufacturers, all make enormous profits and want to keep it that way by pretending there’s no problem, is completely overlooked by these conspiracy true believers.
People who think the global elite would shut down half the world’s economy, tank the stock market and put entire countries in lockdown, are self deluding in yet another dangerous fashion.
Yeah especially since no one is making money since there is no remedy, alot of people, perhaps the whole of italian nation will go bankrupt after this mess. So much for that “profit”..
One can be sure plagued italians arent thinking “hmmm should I be willing to take a remedy shot that will save my life or hmm then I might profit medical companies…”
Some people here got it real twisted, perhaps when they get the virus themselves they might understand..
Jack, you’re being defensive. You stated, “No one profits since there is no cure as of yet and people are dying right now.”
Brian provided proof that someone did indeed profit from the Swine flu so there precedence and plenty of motive for profiteering off of Covid 19.
Instead of acknowledging, you then dismiss the importance of profit which is irrelevant to your initial argument.
In terms of the Covid 19, Israel claims they may have a vaccine within months – if that’s true, I’m pretty sure it won’t be free: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/12/business/beth-israel-is-working-with-johnson-johnson-coronavirus-vaccine/
Also, China stands to profit a lot due to the fact that most of the world is reliant on them for production.
James
No one is profiting since there is no cure, and what is your obsession with profit? You will refuse to take a shot if it comes to that because someone profit?
The whole world is coming down crashing economically. There will be bankruptcy galore all over and recession. No one profit.
What world are you living in?
Spain galloping away from France and Germany, now Spain is second hotspot after Italy
Spain reports 391 new cases and 5 new deaths. bringing total cases to 1646
Coronavirus death toll in Italy jumps to 631 from 463 in a day, 10,000+ cases throughout the country
https://www.rt.com/news/482767-italy-coronavirus-death-toll-again/
Over 200 deaths in 1 day just in Italy.
Daunting that they seems to be unable to find the source of this virus.
631 minus 463 equals 178 – a lot less than 200. Sounds like Matt Hancock/ Boris Johnson mathematics!
Its 168, I like yourself was wrong, isnt 168 deaths enough for you? You feel no sympathy with the affected? Weird attitude.
Merkel says 70% of Germans could get coronavirus: Live updates
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/eu-promises-takes-curb-coronavirus-live-updates-200310235816410.html
Davos is a few miles from Swiss border with Northern Italy
Davos 2020
Presidents, prime ministers, chief executives, and billionaires will descend on a small Swiss skiing resort this week for the annual gathering of the world’s elite.
Around 3,000 people are set to travel to Davos for the World Economic Forum’s 49th annual meeting. Attendees this year include Bill Gates, US President Donald Trump, Google CEO Sundar Pichai, new European Central Bank chief Christine Lagarde and German chancellor Angela Merkel.
The event is a chance for decision makers and power brokers from around the world to meet and discuss the issues of the day. This year, the climate crisis is at the top of the agenda.
Makes you wonder if Davos was the start of Cornonavirus in Europe?
Be interesting to learn how many attendees contracted it.
Switzerland has lots of cases, Switzerland is on the Alps.
Many people travel to the Alps.
The first apparent Italian cluster was in Codogno, Lombardy.
It would be interesting to learn if people from Codogno work in Davos?
Many Northern Italians work in Switzerland and travel back and forth.
Codogno
https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/02/26/news/codogno_i_medici_dell_ospedale_in_trincea_quelle_accuse_del_premier_fanno_piu_male_della_malattia_-249593374/
Maybe some Italian reader could look at this
Codogno became the centre of the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak in Italy when a 38-year-old Italian went to a local clinic reporting respiratory issues on 16 February 2020. From Codogno, the virus spread quickly throughout Italy and the rest of Europe, and the city was later quarantined on 22 February
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codogno
Why Codongo, its a 15’000 ppl city which doesnt seems to be that appealing for tourists anyway?
I read he was a “very sociable guy” and a marathon runner who had recently taken part in at least one marathon and the authorities had traced over 600 recent contacts.
Davos 2020
20–24 January
Corona not likely related to Davos, apparently started earlier, early, mid January:
After detecting three cases, including two Chinese tourists at the end of January, patients were isolated in a hospital in Rome. Contacts were traced, and the country became one of the world’s first to cut transport links with China.
In reality, as would become clear in February, the virus had been circulating unnoticed in northern Italy via other local chains of infection, in all probability since mid-January.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/from-confidence-to-quarantine-how-coronavirus-swept-italy
Googling you notice there are alot of chinese workers inside Italy, in restaurant and clothing business:
1 Chinese prostitutes in Italy in the region of the outbreak:
“Around 50,000 Chinese are employed in Prato alone, Italy’s textile capital near Florence. ”
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/exploited-turn-lives-italys-chinese-prostitutes-190406220713228.html
2 Chinese workers in Prato (which has been plagued with the virus):
“Many Chinese mill owners in Italy have started hiring workers from countries including Syria, Pakistan, and Senegal. Once, in the Prato area,”
https://medium.com/@adepejumariam/dear-millennial-your-made-in-italy-handbag-may-be-made-in-china-e870d79474d8
3 Made in Italy, by Chinese workers in Prato, Tuscany
https://ww.fashionnetwork.com/news/made-in-italy-by-chinese-workers,377237.html
4 Behind pay-wall but also speaking on the chinese presence in the very region that has been plagued with the virus:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/business/italy-china-far-right.html
5 Another article:
“Shen Jianhe lost both her job and home when Italian police shut down her garment factory in the Tuscan city of Prato.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-sweatshop-insight/insight-italys-chinese-garment-workshops-boom-as-workers-suffer-idUSBRE9BS04D20131229
6 Another one:
Wenzhou area has historical trading links with the European country, which has reported more than 2,200 cases and dozens of deaths
There are about 200,000 Chinese from Wenzhou and Qingtian living in Italy, most working in the restaurant business, the Zhejiang Daily reported this week.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-spread-from-china-now-china-doesnt-want-the-world-spreading-it-back/2020/03/04/22a2ff7e-5dc8-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html
No idea of what the relevance of that is, Jack.
So far, the nastiest disease in the world, responsible for more deaths than all physioliogical diseases combined, emanated from British soil.
That disease is called capitalism. It was forced on China and other countries during the Cold War, and the planet and millions of its peoples are now paying the heavy price of that disease, and will go on paying, even though we have long had a cure for it. As with the disease that we are talking about here, most of the world is also in denial about how toxic global capitalism is, and how much death it has caused.
What I have always found so amazing about the kinder peoples of the world (i.e., the aboriginals and indigenous that have suffered so much on account of Britain and its exemplary rape of the world, euphemistically termed imperialism) is that they don’t go frantically pointing the finger at Britain and blaming it for all that is wrong with the world, as they might if they were as dim-witted as we are in the so-called West.
Your xenophobia is so boring.
Marmite
The outbreak of Corona occured in China and since Italy have hundreds of thousands of chinese living and was one of the first cases carrying the virus there it is of course to the chinese population.
Meanwhile you drag on with racism against white westerners.
HIV is spread by black and gays, shouldnt you bash them too?
Incomprehensible comeback, Jack. My whole point is that blaming and bashing and fault-finding and racism are not going to get you anywhere. I have no problem with whites or blacks of gays or anyone. My beef is with the kind of blindness that allows people to rage against each other whilst the real culprit gets away with murder. I thought I spelled out quite clearly what that culprit was.
Marmite
Do you deny that the virus had its outbreak in China?
“The disease was first identified in Wuhan, Hubei, China in December 2019”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic
Are you going to label WHO, Wikipedia and everyone else that proclaim this fact a racist?
If the Corona outbreak would have occured in the US you wouldnt be here ranting about racism.
Officially it began in Feb. 20, when a 38-year-old man checked himself into a local hospital in the town of Codogno in Lombardy. He tested positive with the virus, becoming the first recorded patient with the COVID-19 virus in Italy.
Yet some health officials believe that the virus arrived in Italy long before the first case was discovered. “The virus had probably been circulating for quite some time,” Flavia Riccardo, a researcher in the Department of Infectious Diseases at the Italian National Institute of Health tells TIME. “This happened right when we were having our peak of influenza and people were presenting with influenza symptoms.”
Before the first case was reported, there was an unusually high number of pneumonia cases recorded at a hospital in Codogno in northern Italy, the head of the emergency ward Stefano Paglia told the newspaper La Repubblica, suggesting it is possible patients with the virus were treated as if they had a seasonal flu. Health facilities hosting these patients could have become sites for infection, helping proliferate the spread of the virus.
The northern regions of Lombardy, Veneto and Emilia-Romagna, have been most affected by the outbreak. 85% of infected patients are in the region which is home to 92% of deaths so far. But the virus has been confirmed in all 20 regions of the country.
https://time.com/5799586/italy-coronavirus-outbreak/
There was an Italian proffessor talking about a “bomb” going off it Lombardy, it quickly overwhelmed them, now Italy is in complete Lock-Down.
This chap said we have but a few days to prevent this tragedy in U.K.
Europe act incredibly slow, if at all, there needs to be powerful ways of keeping the disease down but nothing of substance have been done. What now happen in Italy may very well occur throughout other european nations.
For one, cross-border travelling should be forbidden (atleast leisure travelling!) or at least people that travel outside of their nation is to be tested before entering back, in effect being quarantine.
High death rate from Covid-19 in Italy due to their ageing population. They have the highest proportion of over 65s anywhere apart from Japan. So far 89% of Italians who have died from this virus have been over 70 with 58% over 80. How many had other medical problems I don’t know.
Hi Craig. Great article again! A friend sent me the link below. I don’t adhere to any belief system except the one that says that you create your own personal perception of reality with your thoughts, beliefs and conditioning. A very interesting angle on CV and G5! If you can somehow find an hour free from your hectic schedule.
PS No follow up to the Strange Limbo article?
https://youtu.be/feO9FiJ7tZo
Did you actually listen to the disclaimer at the start, where they said this bunch of BS shouldn’t be taken as a substitute for medical advice? You know why they said that? Because they don’t want to be sued if you follow this absolute load of cobblers and die as a result.
Do you get sold bridges very often, John?
Health minister and Conservative M.P. Nadine Dorries says she has been diagnosed with coronavirus.
Ms Dorries, the first M..P to test positive,
said she had taken all the advised precautions after finding out and had been self-isolating at home.
It comes as a sixth person died from the virus in the U.K.
which has a total of 382 cases, so far.
Meanwhile, GPs are warning that routine appointments at surgeries may have to stop as the number of coronavirus cases rises.
The British Medical Association said routine monitoring of long-term health conditions might have to stop to enable GPs to “focus on the sickest patients”.
Time for much more definite restrictions on travel.
Hello Craig. So you views on coronavirus might be “unpopular”. That’s not the correct word, it would be better to say your views are plain “wrong”. It’s too premature to call out the Cover 19 pandemic as “another flu”. It isn’t flu. It’s a novel virus about which we yet know little and the scientists and clinicians of 1958 would have been perfectly able to tell the difference – and this Asian flu epidemic had a death rate of about 0.3%. In comparison the death rate with this new virus in the elderly in particular is worryingly high, perhaps up to 2-4% which if seen on the background of a full epidemic in the UK with say 30 million people being infected, and say 20% of them being elderly would be the cause of the early demise of the UKs grandads and grandmas of around 200,000 – more than enough to totally overwhelm your health resources and the cause of a massive amount of physical and emotional suffering. I don’t believe you’re seeing mass hysteria in the UK or elsewhere, apart from the silly behaviour around toilet rolls. Indeed in China and Italy you’re seeing cooperative societies trying their best to deal to this epidemic in a mature and rational way, voluntarily restricting the freedoms and activities in the wider public interest. You’re certainly seeing panic in the financial systems, which of course were a bubble ready for the bursting and it is what happens in capitalist markets. Your unfortunate dismissive attitude to this pandemic is not based on any rational science or the present knowledge of this virus. I’m a bit surprised you’d so willingly display your lack of understanding to such a wide audience. That “you have no doubt whatsoever” is unfortunately not that different from Trump’s “hunch” about this virus.
I agree, the lukewarm attitude by some people is one of the reason the virus taking more and more lives and is spreading further and further plus now apparently the death rate in Italy is now some 6,5%, what will it be next week? Next month, next year?
I completely agree as well.
in regard to fatality rate you’ll find here some numbers (CFR) comparing seasonal flu and this virus:
https://www.les-crises.fr/comparaison-de-la-mortalite-par-age-de-la-grippe-et-du-coronavirus-covid-19/
It seems Wuhan Virus is sending the world into a tail spin.
Just heard the Bank of England have announced an unscheduled massive drop in rate.
Now down to 0.25%
The Coronavirus budget is today.
Time to lock the borders, stop social gatherings, like church meetings.
Night clubs, pop concerts.
Do it now.
The death rate for Covid-19 is much higher than with flu, and hugely higher in older groups of people. Also, because it is highly infectious and no-one has any immunity to it, it could absolutely overwhelm health services if everyone falls ill in a short space of time. If peak infection can be delayed and spread over a longer time, then perhaps everyone who needs specialist care will be able to get it, and deaths of people like you Craig, with children still growing up,can be avoided Craig – and even those of us with grandchildren, who would like to see them grow up too, when otherwise we might live for years.
A good article explaining the risks and statistics here.
https://medium.com/@davetroy/why-we-should-care-commonly-asked-questions-and-answers-about-covid-19-6b166f1876e9
“If peak infection can be delayed and spread over a longer time, …”
Not only that. It is likely that the probability of infection is much lower in hot summer temperatures. This is not certain (although it is true of other viral diseases like flu), but outbreaks of previous coronavirus strains like SARS were in winter, which suggests it applies to Covid-19 too.
Why on earth aren’t the authorities taking more measures to prevent the epidemic spreading? This is an emergency, why are airports still open, concerts going ahead, unnecessary travel permitted?
Exactly. It might also survive and come back/live on during spring, summer months.
I wonder myself why nothing is done, this is terrible, I also despise the people that keep travelling, having no foresight or care for the next man.
6 stupid parents at my daughter’s school sent their daughters to Pisa in Northern Italy “for a trip” last weekend. One came back sick (probably not coronavirus but still). How can people be so incredibly stupid? Besides the risk of infection, there was a fair chance the schoolgirls could have been stranded alone in a quarantined area or that all flights back might have been cancelled.
And I wouldn’t be so angry if it was just their own welfare at stake. They are endangering others with a high risk of mortality. They also completely ignored the travel advisory by the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Yes I agree, it is so reckless, what are they thinking? There should be penalty for this behavior, their leisure activities might lead to deaths and medical/welfare resources being drained. For what?!
Close the flights from/to these areas and test everyone of these reckless people before they come back.
What could be more important than stopping this epidemic? I dont get it.
A colleague flew out last Sunday for a ski holiday to Northern Italy.
Back now – as the resort closed.
They were most gung-ho about going out there.
They’re keen on the risks and rewards of mountains and motorbikes – and they have freedom that comes from having no children…
I guess this was a novel risk … that, arguably, they didn’t deal with so well.
They talked about self-isolating, now they’re back – but I doubt they will.
They’ll be out shopping etc.
We’ll see….
The coronavirus outbreak has been labelled a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO).
WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the number of cases outside China had increased 13-fold over the past two weeks.
He said he was “deeply concerned” by “alarming levels of inaction” over the virus.
Mindless how the British government do nothing.
It seems quite likely that the British government wanted to get the long overdue budget out to rapturous applause,
before going a notch up.
So, Bank of England drops interest rate to the lowest level in more than 300 hundred years.
Next day the budget is produced.
The next day we go into Home Office Controlled, Delay Phase.
Controlled by Priti Patel in her jack boots.
” Priti Patel in her jack boots. ”
No thanks…
Also disturbing is the ratio Italy/China which really show plagued the italians are:
China: 1,4 billion people with some 80´000 reported cases
Italy: 60 million people with some 12´000 reported cases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_by_country_and_territory#Pandemic_by_country_and_territory
Italy take more measures while rest of europe remain inactive,
Italy to shutter ALL businesses besides pharmacies & grocery stores as coronavirus outbreak continues to spread
https://on.rt.com/acld
Latest figures show 12,462 reported cases and 827 dead.
The words ‘stable door’ and ‘bolted’ spring most readily to mind.
Over 800 now dead in Italy.
Italy in Total Lock-Down.
Spain, France and Germany have two and a quarter thousand victims a piece.
America stops people flying from mainland Europe to U.S.A.
The centre of the storm has move from China to
Europe/Middle East.
And meanwhile the US announces that it is stopping all flights between Europe and the USA. Save that is for Britain who as the effective 51st state can still travel to the USA.
Maybe Europe should close its borders to the UK. Maybe it will. Maybe that is the intention. Britain isolated and aligned with the USA it is now clear beyond clear that the virus is being used as a tool in an economic war between the USA and the EU, and the USA and China.
But the virus is here, it’s in our very own cabinet office with the health minister sick whilst the UK and the US have been the most resistant developed economies to implement viral transmission measures that would impact their economies.
Not for the UK or the US to be at the forefront of closing down schools, shutting down major crowd attracting sporting and other such mass events. Indeed, the Cheltenham festival this week with the hundreds of thousands of attendees was a very visible example of that. But maybe no less so than Westminster’s very own health minister going down with the virus.
Maybe a holocaust awaits us in health terms. The old and the frail need be very afraid because it is for them the virus really calls. But as someone once said, it’s all about the economy, stupid, and of course as a grim throwaway, a cull of pensioners would be no bad thing for the pension industry.
Ah, like sheep in a pen, how little the beastly populace know, or have control over their very existence.
I agree with you. The travel ban is a trade war in disguise. Look at how quickly the UK media have been jumping on their anti-EU hobby horses for their American masters in the last few days.
How are they going to stop people using Heathrow or Dublin as a transit point between the rest of Europe and the US?
@ Willie March 12, 2020 at 08:06
Not quite all flights – ‘30,000 US Soldiers Arrive In Europe Without Masks’:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/30000-us-soldiers-arrive-europe-without-masks
Re Trump banning Europeans from flying to US.
The EU should grow a pair and ban the 20,000 US troops being flown to Europe for a summer training ‘exercise’ to combat alleged Russian aggression. The US troops in Europe are an occupying force, the only threat to the EU is American. At least the Romans brought bridges, aquaducts, baths and roads to the rest of Europe. What will a historian say about ‘what the Americans brought to Europe’ in 2000 years? Disgusting junk food and sugar-stuffed fizzy drinks, terrible Hollywood propaganda films and… sorry, I’ve forgotten what else’.
‘…sorry, I’ve forgotten what else’.
TV series like CSI and NCIS, which have apparently brainwashed millions of simpletons into believing the kind of technically impossible nonsense emitted in connection with the Skripals, the alleged Syrian poison gas outrages, and the MH17 crime.
As John Helmer recently pointed out in his admirable blog, PM Theresa May’s incontinent remarks in Parliament were made before Porton Down had been given the opportunity of analyzing the Skripals’ blood samples.
She alleged (without of course citing any evidence) that the Skripals had been poisoned by “Novichok” which, she said, could be made only in Russia.
She said that before Porton Down had analyzed the Skripal’s samples. Moreover, if (as alleged) Porton Down found traces of “Novichok” in those samples, how did they determine its chemical nature – other than by comparing it with some of their own stocks of “Novichok”?
Which, according to our utterly honest and trustworthy PM, could be made only in Russia.
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From Trump’s mouth no less. On this occasion he was shown seated at his desk (for a change) and not wearing his red baseball cap (Make America Great Again) and white trousers. An unpleasant sight. He is often shown getting on or off a plane
Perhaps P Harry could get him one of those caps reading ‘We do bad things to bad people’ which he wore when returning from a killing spree in Afghanistan.
Surely that should read, ‘We do bad things to ordinary people’?
Talk about playing to the moron gallery. But then wrestling fans are a main market for him.
And we have it: the first Holocaust Analogy. Bit hard to follow that, isn’t it? Can anyone make a sentence with “Armageddon” in it?
It seems the world is getting ready for a world recession, partially because of Coronavirus
Airlines are going broke.
Airtravel is greatly reducing.
Cruise holidays will soon be history.
Borders are getting shuttered.
Coal, Oil and gas are being used less.
Crude oil at four year low.
People will not be buying big item tickets, til this is done.
No house buying, therefore slow down in house building.
No new car buying, therefore slowing down on car manufacture.
Steel industry on its knees.
Holiday industry on its knees.
Hospitality industry on its knees.
Sporting events and pop festivals will have to be stopped.
In Italy they now have to make choices, who to save and who to let die.
Trump will lose because the economy was all he had going for him (except for the “Christian” nutters who want to bring back Jesus by rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem).
But, maybe the US elections will simply be postponed. I don’t know if this is possible under the US Constitution, but if things get really bad they may have to.
This is going to be far far worse than 2008.
The best we can do is retard the epidemic It’s too late to stop it now.
Johnson’s message:
Say goodbye to your loved ones, parents and grandparents, now. The virus that is our growth economy must be allowed not only to go on but to accelerate the pace of other killer viruses that will help get rid of the vulnerables, the disabled, the homeless, the migrants, the pensioners. Because this will be good for a strong and stable Britain.
Same sick Tory-sponsored ‘slow death,’ just with a new twist.
Owen Jones: “We’re about to learn a terrible lesson from coronavirus: inequality kills” – https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-outbreak-inequality-austerity-pandemic
One of the few voices of decency in Britain today, even if he may be wrong about some other things.
Meanwhile, I see that this forum continues to attract nutcases who speak of the need for more xenophobia, borders, policing, more racism and populist nationalism. These unlearned commentators seem to think that borders are anything more than abstract concepts, and don’t understand the levels of violence inflicted when you try to turn those abstractions into concrete things. The only reality is porosity, and it has always been the case. Every time you come into contact with another human being, it is a demonstration of how silly it is to speak of borders.
P.S. The time for Scottish Independence is long over, I’m afraid. Now the whole idea sounds antiquated and irresponsible. I have supported it long enough, but for vehemently anti-nationalist reasons I should add, but the opportunity right after the election was missed, and now any movements in that direction would just look trivial and gain no sympathy. (That’s not to say there might come another opportune moment though).
Republic of Ireland closes all schools
Entire Spanish government undergoes testing
U.K. sits and twiddles its fingers and does nothing?
Giant flaming comet heading towards Earth too. Just saw it out the window. Promise!
re: Trumpian logic
I note that President Trump just placed a ban on travel to and from EU countries; however, he excluded the UK.
I thought a bit about the logic of Trump’s decision then after a while came up with the answer.
Trump must have figured out that the virus had decided to confine itself to certain European countries and had made a decision not to swim across the English Channel because of its dislike of the cold water.
Best I could come up with to understand the Trumpian logic
UK is not part of the Schegen area which was the region Trump put a ban on.
Really EU? Condemning actions against Corona now?
“EU condemns Trump over US travel ban ”
https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-trump-limits-all-travel-to-us-from-europe-except-uk
EU seems whiny that they dont have the guts to do the same as Trump by closing their borders, flights.
Over 15 thousand have it in Italy, with over one thousand deaths,
Spain now has over 3,000 cases and ninety deaths.
I think all completely unimportant travel should be halted, going on holiday is not important, saving lives is more important.
It is thought, that at this moment in time
about one person in ten thousand has the virus in the U.K.
In certain areas, there are almost certainly clusters of infections where the number is far far greater.
In Italy, the same was thought and look at Italy now.
In some cases the corpses of people who have died presumably due to a coronavirus infection are not being removed normally. This is because funeral services will not pick up the bodies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/12/coronavirus-bodies-italy-quarantine/
Yet some governments are still dithering and taking measures that will obviously not be effective.
michael norton
That is the least they can do (ban unimportant travel), it should be banned for job travelling too, meetings could be managed by phone, computer.
There are now twice as many cases in Ital as in South Korea also many more deaths in Italy
over 1,000 deaths in Italy death rate = 6.72%
in Korea 67 deaths, death rate = 0.84%
things are going very badly in Italy.
Death rate China = 3.93%
Note that the affected northern italy region is also the most developed/well off region, so how will poorer regions handle the spread is obvious…
Applying a death rate at this moment in time is a pointless exercise.
It is well documented that there are many more people having the virus than reported cases as many younger people have mild to no symptoms at all. One of the reasons it has spread the way it has. People need to stop waving mortality percentages about as it is achieving nothing. What is more important is that the elderly and vunerable stay indoors if possible and online shop,or have relatives drop supplies off to them. Make sure our elderly neighbours are ok and help them out if they need to stay isolated.
The pandemic has brought the face to face Brexit talks to a stop.
More important stuff for U.K. government to get on with other than Brexit and future relationship with the European Union.
Don’t worry, dearie. We’re all going to die from climate change anyway by 2030.
The UK government’s reaction is inadequate and politically motivated. I did not realise that this post was still alive so I started a new thead elsewhere.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/corona-virus-governemnt-takes-the-st-augustine-approach/
I am an older person and apparently at high risk, but still I cannot have a test to see if I have already had a mild version. (I had what seemed to be a cold n Late January.) In fact as from 12 March, only people being admitted to hospital with respiratory symptoms, are being tested. You cannot even buy a private test in the UK. It is all done via the state hospitals.
All the deaths in the UK have been older people with serious multiple illnesses. It is clear that different societies will have different mortality rates. In Italy they have second oldest population in the world who seem generally in poor health. They also smoke more than in the UK. The guy in Codogna who seems to have created an early cluster is a marathon runner. His doctor described him as a very sociably guy and said they had traced 600 contacts. Presumably he uses the Italian kissy kissy greeting. In China spitting is culturally acceptable and they also smoke a lot more than Brits.
The UK approach seems to be letting the virus circulate and so “innoculate” those mildly affected Soma’s to focus concentrate on the seriously ill. Is this the wrong approach? I don’t know but it does mean that when outbreaks recur, we will have an at least partially resistant population. And one last thing. I am an older person but currently in good health. Not all of us senior citizens are in poor health with compromised immune systems. If I do catch it I hope to make a good recovery. But just in case I do not, I plan to see my young grandchildren this weekend.
Mrs Pau!
The survival for anybody depends on several factors. Age and co-morbidities are important ones. But also some people get more severe illness than others and even some young and fit people have died. Another important factor is support for those who develop respiratory failure. Serious cases who are treated early and where all facilities are available have a better chance of survival. This is the crucial issue here, the total swamping of facilities with a large peak of cases will mean that even fit people will not get to be treated properly and die. This is why it is important now to reduce the infection rate and flatten the curve so that facilities can cope. This may lead to a longer duration of the pandemic but with less mortality.
Why is the apparent mortality rate in Italy so high, in the richest part of Italy.
I was hearing an Italian professor speaking, he said the health service in Lombardy, is probably the best in Italy and one of the best in the world.
Lombardy
About 10 million people, forming more than one-sixth of Italy’s population, live in Lombardy, and more than a fifth of Italy’s GDP is produced in the region, making it the most populous, richest and most productive region in the country and one of the first in Europe.
Usually it is poor regions that do badly in pandemics, not rich regions?
Mrs Pau!
I think its dangerous not to commit to test for everyone but only those seriously ill.
How do you know if you have the disease in that case – you dont! And children, while seems not to be affected as a group, is a great transmitter of diseases, so they can carry it on even though they themselves have no signs of it.
If I thought I was infected and could find one, i would pay for a private test . Except these are not available in the UK.
Is project fear an industry and WHO’s part of it? Interesting alternative narrative about manipulating the masses.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-causes-effects-real-danger-agenda-id2020/5706153
4334 cases now declared in Spain, making it far and way, the second hot spot in the E.U. after Italy.
So the four biggest economies of the Eurozone , Italy, Spain, France, Germany between them have declared = 25,440 cases
and 1,206 deaths.
For the European Union this must be devastating for their economy.
And so it starts.
Mayoral and local elections in England postponed for one year due to coronavirus outbreak
The government’s stated explanation (inducing “herd immunity”, flattening the peak) for its policy of caution while the rest of the world takes action against coronavirus are highly questionable and not a little dubious, and now a Tory councillor has spelt it out plainly referring to the policy as “a crime against humanity”.
Samantha Flower said:
“I’m very concerned. They [the UK government] are saying they want as many people to get this disease to create a herd immunisation. But it won’t. My suspicion is that they don’t have the money for social care or NHS so that the weak and the old die.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-live-updates-uk-us-australia-italy-europe-school-shutdown-share-markets-sport-events-cancelled-latest-update-news?page=with:block-5e6ba9178f085e564ad83a2f#block-5e6ba9178f085e564ad83a2f
“My suspicion is that they don’t have the money for social care or NHS so that the weak and the old die.””
This. The resources are nowhere to be found and they try to keep that devastating fact a secret around europe now, not only the UK.
Ttrying to create, establish a herd immunization is also horrible since alot will be affected and die in the run.
@ Jack “Ttrying to create, establish a herd immunization is also horrible since alot will be affected and die in the run.”
Indeed.
Seeking to create ‘herd immunity’ essentially means ‘wanting’ more people – not less – to catch the disease and therefore more people to die.
Think about that for a minute.
First person has died in Scotland from Covid-19
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51876784
Europe is now the “epicentre” of the global coronavirus pandemic, the head of the World Health Organization says.
Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus urged countries to use aggressive measures, community mobilisation and social distancing to save lives.
“Do not just let this fire burn,” he said.