It is nearly 20 years since I blew the whistle on British Government complicity in torture and the extraordinary rendition programme, under which thousands of people were deliberately tortured as a systematic act of government policy.
Many of them were killed.
I had, and I leaked, substantial documentary evidence to back my claims, of which this is but one example.
Yet the BBC never gave a spectacular, combat shot illustrated four and a half minute lead television news item to my revelations of official UK government involvement in mass torture, as they gave to junior Russian officer Konstantin Yefremov’s far less spectacular allegations.
My revelations were actually about the UK, not a foreign country. They came from a much more senior source than Lt Yefremov. They had undeniable supporting evidence. They revealed ministerially approved policy, not the possibly rogue behaviour detailed by Yefremov.
Yet to the BBC it was a much less important story.
Now I don’t actually doubt Yefremov’s modest testimony: he witnessed a single incident of torture and some looting. I am sorry to say I have no doubt, from close study, that torture and other crimes have always been committed by all armies in war.
Those who deny that Russian soldiers do it are as purblind and bigoted as those who deny that British or United States – or Ukrainian – soldiers do it.
But the massive propaganda punch given to Lt Yefremov’s testimony is in stark contrast to the treatment of domestic UK whistleblowers, or to the equally harrowing stories of the torture of Russian prisoners.
When have you ever seen Australian Major David McBride given four and a half minutes of BBC main news headline story to outline his allegations of widespread war crimes by allied forces in Afghanistan?
Of course you haven’t seen that. Such coverage would never happen.
How much prime time news coverage did the BBC allocate to the International Criminal Court’s listing of torture, rape and murder by British forces in Iraq?
Virtually none.
On the other hand, when Public Interest Lawyers were closed down over irregularities in soliciting and pursuing the cases of victims of British atrocities in Iraq, the BBC gave that enormous coverage including on prime time news broadcasts, as though it proved no such atrocities ever occurred.
The BBC gives blanket coverage to a junior Russian officer, but gave almost none to New Zealand’s Operation Burnham, in which the Special Air Service killed a child, tortured an opponent and handed him over to further torture, and then systematically lied and covered up – all of which an official inquiry confirmed happened but declared “legal”.
Of course we know we live in an age of wall to wall propaganda. Of course we know that the BBC is an integral part of it. The really shocking thing about propaganda – as true of today’s BBC as it was of Goebbels – is that being massively unsubtle and obvious appears to magnify rather than diminish its power to sway public opinion.
The lesson of this current article is that it is not necessary to invent facts for propaganda. A completely false narrative can be built by extreme selectivity of what facts you amplify, and what facts you bury.
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So the Our Values brigade got rid of you for exposing Britain’s complicity in torture, a practice they now pretend to abhor because an enemy is doing it.
Torture suddenly back to being against Our Values again.
By the way, imagine if the Definitely-Not-State-Affiliated BBC were able to claim this about an approved enemy government…
Britain backs most of the world’s repressive regimes, new analysis shows
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-03-11-britain-backs-most-of-the-worlds-repressive-regimes-new-analysis-shows/
I suppose freezing ones nation to death, starving ones nation to death.
Following Lord Sainsbury, and the Earl of Elgin’s first protestation of a rules based order, as they forced China to accept the right of these vermin to supply the Chinese nation with heroin – as they had a right to trade in any matter they deem fit?
Just in the same manner as the same relatives of the same establishment today flood these nations with the manner of our children’s deaths.
Why else would they force us all to embrace Brexit to ensure the implementation of money-laundering auditing legislation which was supposed to be implemented, by the latest, 2005!
Democracy….. honour …….. truth…… morality…… sovereignty……. what a state of affairs!
Roll on independence in Scotland and our nation, from those who think they are above the law!
Thank god for men and women who still have previous ancestors and that generation’s values.
“Following Lord Sainsbury, and the Earl of Elgin’s….”
~~~~~~
I think you mean Lord Salisbury- not the grocer!
Interesting that you speak of Goebbels.
Here is one of his illuminating quotes:
— Joseph Goebbels, “Die Zeit ohne Beispiel”, pp. 364-369, 1941.
With luck it will not be too much longer before the “essential English leadership secret” is revealed to all.
And all will say “I knew that all along!”
Re: ‘When have you ever seen Australian Major David McBride given four and a half minutes of BBC main news headline story to outline his allegations of widespread war crimes by allied forces in Afghanistan? Of course you haven’t seen that. Such coverage would never happen.’
To be fair to the Beeb, they did recently give Richard Bilton a whole hour to reveal the results of his investigations into allegations of serious war crimes in Afghanistan, namely the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians in Helmand province by *British* special forces, on their flagship Panorama programme. So there is that:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0019707
There is that. But the ghetto of a low audience documentary programme – which Panorama now is, it’s not the prime time opinion former it was in our youth – is very different to punchy four minute segments leading the main TV News.
Nevertheless it stirred up a lot of reaction and triggered an inquiry which is still ongoing. I grant that there’s no guarantee the inquiry will go anywhere but the programme can be credited with getting the information out there.
Enquiries are merely the second line of defence after secrecy fails.
I vividly remember short interview with Hans Blix (weapon inspector) at 3am on BBC and that was it.
Thanks for your reply Boss. I can’t get recent TV viewing figures for Panorama without subscribing to the BARB site, but they were 3 – 4 million around a decade ago. They’ve probably have fallen a bit since, but it’s also available on iPlayer for a year.
An edited version of it was also the third item – after a big revelation by a household name sports personality and the latest developments in the Tory leadership race – on BBC1’s News at Six on 12th July last year (and probably on the Ten O’Clock News as well).
https://archive.org/details/BBCNEWS_20220712_170000_BBC_News_at_Six/start/0/end/60
(Click the first video with the combine harvester thumbnail, if you don’t believe me.)
It’s not realistic to expect the Beeb to cover allegations made against foreign service personnel based on the other side of the world; it’s the British Broadcasting Corporation, not the Australian one.
I’m certainly not the biggest fan of the Beeb*; however, considering that their funding model is largely dependent on keeping senior UK politicians reasonably happy and the clout that the security services have with many of those, it’s a wonder the programme was broadcast at all. I’m rarely tempted to use the words ‘stunning & brave’ about modern British media, but that’s one occasion when I was.
* Particularly when they have people like the sanctimonious Ros Atkins telling people it’s perfectly fine to send rocket launchers etc to the Azov Regiment (who aren’t even part of the Ukrainian Army) because they’re “only 15-20% Nazi” (try nearly 100%, Ros) on their self-styled factchecking ‘Outside Source’ programme. Factcheck: it’s not.
P.S. How do you know I’m not still in my youth? The 40’s could be the new 30’s.
@Lapsed Agnostic, and the BBC recently broadcast its documentary Hooded Men: Britain’s Torture Playbook.
The term ‘Five Techniques‘ is quite misleading, deliberately so, because it misses out the sixth technique of vicious beating applied to subjects who strayed from the stress positions, and the seventh and eighth techniques of extremely aggressive shouting and use of attack dogs, and the ninth of mock executions (firing squads with blanks, or being thrown out of a rotor-running helicopter on the ground).
Ian Cobain (Cruel Britannia), Caroline Elkins (Britain’s Gulag) and Helen Fry (The London Cage) have filled in some chapters of British secret history of torture. The programme rightly notes that some techniques were imported from colonies, though it misses the Army’s use of torture during WW2 and its aftermath, which could have been used to challenge one of the Army officers’ statements. The programme also states, with clear written evidence, that the European ruling that the Five Techniques (+) were not actually torture was subsequently used by the USAmerican Empire as justification for its later torture programme.
Does this context ever feature in prime-time news bulletins, though?
Thanks for your reply SD, and for the link. I’ll try to find time to watch it sometime. Anyway, that seems to be more evidence that Beeb is still prepared to make programmes which undermine notions of Britain’s glorious military tradition, and leave them on iPlayer for a year, even though there’s a chance it may piss off elements of our Tory government at a time when calls to defund the BBC are gaining traction.
Prime-time news items are generally 5-10 minutes in length. To my mind, it’s enough that alleged wrongdoings by parts of the British military are given the time of day on Beeb News, without historical context from decades ago needing to be provided.
P.S. For some more context, it’s probably worth remembering that the British security forces weren’t the only ones that were torturing people during the Troubles (and after), people who in some cases, were deliberately tortured to death and buried where their earthly remains were unlikely ever to be found.
@Lapsed Agnostic, sure, kneecapping and all.
The problem with news items and longer interviews is if assertions or implications that the British state has been innocent of a certain kind of wrongdoing (like torture) go unchallenged, it reinforces those lies. State torture is commonly a form of state terrorism, as Ruth Blakeley writes in State Terrorism and Neoliberalism: The North in the South (2009). Torture (and humiliating/degrading treatment; rape; amputations; threats to loved ones) can threaten those inside or outside prison walls. p40
although British and French mostly tried to cover up their colonial torture and terror from wider public knowledge. Word of mouth from locals was presumably effective enough, a form of covert terror combined with deniability on the world stage. A lot of torture is outsourced these days, and sometimes more scientifically applied to leave less long-term evidence, although rare visitors can be traumatised by their experience and spread word and fear to specific vulnerable communities.
But state terrorism remains largely officially unrecognized, and state torture commonly brushed off as ‘bad apples’ or ‘breaches of military discipline’, bogus though those downplayings might be.
I suppose the worst aspect of this post is that I am not in the least surprised-and thanks to John Cleary, via Herr Goebbels,” I knew it a long time ago” (I paraphrase slightly).
Not to mention giving British soldiers blanket legal immunity for the torture and war crimes they totally did not commit, whether in Afghanistan, Iraq or Northern Ireland. Why is that surprising, it is pretty much an inevitable corollary of empire, even one as tattered and moth-ridden as the British one.
Doubtless the NATO-bots will be eager to tell us that this is all ‘whataboutary’, and therefore we should only pay attention to the evils of official enemies.
Well you said it. Doesn’t reduce the Russian’s culpability one iota.
“whataboutary”….convenient phrase to deflect from the hypocrisy of you doing exactly the same as your enemy while l condemning them for it.
“Well you said it. Doesn’t reduce the Russian’s culpability one iota.”
But it does mean that ‘our’ side is not the lesser evil.
whataboutery = precedents
I never understood the support by leftists of the public service media like BBC, NPR, DW, France24 and similar western outlets, those are actually more dangerous than openly agenda driven private media outlets because the public service companies are cloaked as objective reporting, what they report is taken by face value to be true, legitimate by the vast majority of westerners, but in the end their reporting is always backing the government interest and frame events accordingly.
On Ukraine for example BBC:
They do not talk about neo-nazis ties with the ukrainian government,
they do not touch upon ukrainian warcrimes,
they ignore russian views,
they ignore what has been going on in Donbas prior the invasion,
they ignore the Nato expansion and its impact,
they ignore to report when western leaders and Ukraine claim that they would never follow the Minsk agreements,
they ignore the history of the region,
they play down any peaceful approach.
they spread any news, even when it cannot be verified, as long as it hurts Russia
=
Just like the government.
Social media is also an evil, so much bs, lies, half-truths are spread all over the world and influence the western mind to complete corruption. Twitter is the worst, I cannot even read what people write there, it makes me sad and worried how easily people can be lead.
I mean, we have a western world that actually like the war to continue, enjoying war, enjoying the killing, how sick can the west become? This sentiment is not found outside of the western world, it is like people have become brainwashed, incredibly uncanny.
Jack.
When it becomes their children or their sons and daughters then suddenly they will wake up. At the moment the armchair spectators can sit back with their popcorn and enjoy seeing ‘Johnny foreigner’ getting killed.
The war generations understand, on the whole, the evil. The rest are ignorant and/or stupid.
The war generations have pretty well died out, they are certainly too old to have much influence any more.
Jack , Well said / summarised
You are right there is a lot of misinformation out there. A lot of people get their talking points from facebook and youtube. It varies greatly but it tends to be superficial. And knowing the history of the region IS important.
It is necessary to look at a range of sources and evaluate them ; then compare and look for supporting evidence. It doesn’t guarantee we have ‘the truth’ but it is better than saying that one side is all right and the other all wrong.
The BBC did have Ros Atkins talking about the neo-Nazis but not recently. They DO say when news cannot be verified.
We also don’t hear why the former members of the Warsaw Pact and three Soviet Republics chose to join NATO. They have elections.
We rarely hear from the OSCE or Human Rights Watch investigations. Amnesty did talk of Ukrainian war crimes but it also mentioned the Russian ones.
We don’t hear from Alexander Stubb , former PM of Finland, who knows about being a neutral living next to Russia and why he disputes Putin’s accusations.
We don’t have reports from inside the DPR and LPR – do you know of any news agencies that report from there?
What we don’t see is how the Russian media report the war. I think we would find that in comparison, the western media is more objective.
Ian Stevenson
Yes western msm did talk about neo-nazis years before the invasion but then they kept silent – this is not objective reporting, it is censorship
Of course we hear why nations want to join Nato or (warhawks like Stubb), that is the sole focus of western msm, we never hear why Russia find this a huge issue for their security, every claim, worry by Russia have been rebuffed as propaganda, for decades! That is not objective reporting, that is censorship.
No we hear constantly from HRW, Amnesty and even though also ukrainian and its western backers are involved in warcrimes, 99% of their reporting is on russian warcrimes, that is not objective reporting, that is censorhip.
Yes western media do not even report from DPR, LPR that is why westerners get a absurdly biased view of the conflict, thus they are not being fed objective reporting but framed according to government interest.
Hi Jack
Amnesty did address some Ukrainian war crimes on both sides. The media say they are not allowed into the DPR and LPR. Even al Jazeera. But dismissing all these sources that contradict the Russian view suggests a conspiracy among western news media. There are great shortcomings in western media but I am sceptical about a conspiracy. There is little doubt Russian media is censored, internet is blocked and dissent in public is an arrestable offence.
If tens of, and probably several hundred thousand , young men fled the country to escape conscription in the west it would be well publicised. I remember the Vietnam war and how men went to Canada etc. We know of the numbers due to neighbouring countries. When we are told it is not officially publicised in Russia, I expect it is correct.
Putin internal narrative to more closely tied to the ‘moral degeneracy’ of the west than military challenge. We hear little about the Russian govt media associating the EU with the spread of homosexuality.
The only “NATO” troops from cold War member states in eastern Europe are there on training missions, usually to instruct in new weapons. The exception is a few battalions in the Baltic states and are there by invitation. European NATO forces lacked the numbers and logistic capacity to pose any conventional military threat to Russia. If they had been or that European nations were belligerent , I doubt if Putin would have sent in the Special Military Operation which was designed more for occupation than prolonged fighting. The force would have been differently configured. The security objections are more political than military. Ukraine has had to beg for weapons for a defensive role. A year ago I was sympathetic to your view but trying to answer the questions I had has moved me away.
But I am interested in how people form their views. What would you recommend readers of this blog read for uncensored news?
Ian Stevenson
No, western media is of course not forbidden to report in the Donbas, how much sympathy did you see for the Donbas people since 2014? Nothing or very sparse.
Westerners are inside ukrainian held territory, so they only see and report when russian missiles strikes and what damage that cause, they never go to DPR, LPR and so on and see the devastation ukrainian attacks generate.
I have not spoken of a conspiracy but when western media deliberately refuse to report certain things, one could sure talk about a conspiracy of silence.
Amnesty have retracted their report on warcrimes by Ukraine and this proves what I am trying to say, you cannot say, report, frame what Ukraine does in a critical way in the west, that leads to self-censorship in the west but also censorship by Ukraine itself, Zelensky have banned independent or oppositional media.
Go to RT, check Sputnik, check ITAR-TASS, check PRESSTV check SOUTHFRONT, then there are hundreds of Telegram channels reporting on the war, often in real time, I can compile some list if you want.
Check out Aron Mate on Twitter or Max Blumenthal.
These sources I name here are not unbiased but they do show what BBC and other western media do not report (there might be a problem for you to reach some of these sites since western governments have banned access to them, use an VPN).
As I have said earlier on this blog, I do not support the invasion but the reporting itself in the west have been terrible, western media could have paved the way for de-escalation and peace efforts, instead they have become cheerleaders for continued warfare.
Many are active in their own blindness to this, and other, atrocities..
I dream of reading a satirical story written by Mr. Murray, about the daily routine of the 77th brigade. What does their working day look like? Freelancers or office workers? Free lunch, tea, cookies? What would their daily report look like? Are they paid per page or per symbol? What are the criteria for evaluating the effectiveness of an employee? Are they given free live access to ‘propaganda sites’ or do they get ‘counterattack material’ through special software to prevent accidental infection with ‘dangerous ideas’? What is the HR department like? What is the boss concerned about? Do soldiers have a private life? Trade union maybe?Does the organization support inclusion, gay rights, gender policy, jobs for disabled?
I remember Mr. Murray’s great satires before he went to jail. I wish I could feel that spark again.
This feeling, when the discussion stops right after you comment.
I hope it’s a temporary break.
Tatyana, there are many delays now. Sometimes for days. Do not worry.
please tell me that the delay is due to the collection of responses from 77boys to my questionnaire 🙂
“Do not worry.”
Ha Ha Ha !!!!
How can I not worry? The world has gone mad. I feel attacked and I can’t describe it better than using religious terminology.
Demons are circling around. Looking for loopholes to get into my brain and infect me with hatred and thirst for violence. They want to extinguish the human mind in me and replace it with animal instincts. They lie that I have no choice. They lie in many ways. They want to destroy my values – conscience, justice, humanity, wisdom, love. They want to destroy my immortal soul 🙂
There was a popular meme “I look at the screen, and everyone is fucked up there.” Something similar is happening now on a global scale. Tony & Ezekiel performance from every speaker. And look how many are happy to join this dog roll. Happy to have fun, even find an important meaning in this activity!
Soon we’ll have to find an honest man with a lantern in the broad daylight, like that dude Diogenes.
Hi Tatyana.
That is a great idea.
The 77 Brigade of the English Army is particularly malign as it is apparently directed at Establishment opponents like our host. And at anti British political movements in England and Scotland.
For ‘balance’, perhaps also a satirical piece about working in the troll farm at 55 Savushkina Street in St. Petersburg would be amusing?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
All the best,
John
You do understand that that Wiki account of Savushkina St was written by 77th Brigade itself or its US equivalent. It is not a factual objective account.
The BBC’s record of incorporation into and propaganda for TPTB has been clear for decades (as Craig’s example shows). Why people still read or watch the BBC is beyond me, especially given the many honest independent journalists and analysts producing reliable content.
The BBC has deteriorated markedly recently, though, along with most of the mass media. TPTB clamped down more firmly after the Snowden revelations from 2013 onwards, on all mass media. But even as recently as March 2022, the BBC website at least allowed someone to publish evidence of Ukrainian war crimes: https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259 , albeit with ridiculously intense spin. I wonder whether that would be permitted today.
I watch mainly BBC news because I’m more familiar with the style. I don’t find it more pro-establishment than other TV news; in fact one of the things I’ve noticed over the last year is that all news programmes have become the same – the same top story, the same list of headlines (with a little jiggling), the same emphasis. I usually end up watching just the first 5 minutes.
Where (on TV) can I find these “many honest independent journalists and analysts”? Surely you won’t propose Al Jaz and RT?
Jimmeh
Yes RT, Sputnik, TASS and so on, “Al Jaz” (even though they are very similar in reporting to BBC)
In old days I was told that CNN is the most reliable News source.
I am sure it must be an option on your outdated TV.?
CNN sucks. 90% of propaganda is not in biased analysis which accounts for only about 10%; the bulk 90% of propaganda is hidden in fact selection. And CNN is very selective in what they report and what they do not. You can use CNN as an indicator of what suits the Democratic Party line and what does not. For example, back in May-June of 2020, they overhyped the death of George Floyd. These days, they underreport the death of Keenan Anderson (1 news story Jan 13th; 2 on Jan 14th, and 1 on Jan 26th when the relatives filed a lawsuit against the city of LA; the rest is silence). Sure, you can tell who sits in the Oval Office by such comparison.
Earlier, Mikhail Saakashvili was CNNs favorite subject, they reported how Poroshenko granted him Ukrainian citizenship and appointed him the Governor of Odessa. However, soon Saakashvili had a quarrel with Avakov (then Internal Affairs Minister) whom he accused of corruption, and since then CNN canceled him, because one can never mention corruption in the Ukraine on CNN. They never reported that Poroshenko stripped him off his Ukrainian citizenship and kicked him out of the country; that Saakashvili illegally came back late in 2017 and tried to start a rebellion against Poroshenko; that he was arrested and kicked out again; that he sneaked into Georgia in a container with mayonnaise cans etc etc. From the moment he accused Avakov, he became persona non grata fat CNN, bad news for Democratic Party and therefore he was completely ignored.
So, look for the “unknown unknowns”, the facts you do not know they do exist, and the truth shall make you free.
You have to chuckle (although not a laughing matter) at the special news reader who just reads in a dramatic hushed shocked tone anything negative about Russia or Iran. It’s the only thing he reads so one has to wonder at the BBC.
I think the ‘hushed tones’ point is important for newsreaders. They clearly have to be trained to read the autocue this way. So who trains them? For example any story with a royal child staring school is is always read with a friendly chuckle. Any news of industrial action is read with furrowed brow.
It’s a form of acting without doubt, and a number of media actors such as Reagan, Johnson, and Zelensky have risen to high office with calamitous results. The ‘Society of the Spectacle’ as Guy Debord described it back in the 1960s.
This form of propaganda may be more effective than the Murdoch press rants about Trade Union barons or Wokeism within the BBC. It’s insidious.
Excellent points both, I have noticed this too, it is so dramatized, it is so manipulative and so apparent what they try to achive – incite fear against the current enemy.
It works, … and the current enemy is us !
Surely the ‘Rosenberg’ must take the biscuit with his specious mimicry and incredulous tone when ‘reporting’ the Russian perspective
This piece takes me back to a circular email I received a few weeks ago asking me to sign a petition of complaint about BBC bias. I replied saying that while I wished him every success, I would not sign it because it was a waste of time. The BBC is a lie machine, it is doing its job. It’s in the nature of the beast, you might as well complain that dogs bark and cocks crow. It is rotten all the way to the top: just consider the appointment process of their chairman….
Look, in case you haven’t figured it out yet, the show is run by the USA and Israel. They are in control. Their security services instruct the UK services who then give orders to the government, the opposition (Starmer the security stooge), the BBC and so on. Remember what they did to Corbyn, to Assange, to the Guardian. The UK is an occupied country like Australia (Whitlam, Rudd), and rest of the so called “free world”.
If you are still on the blue pill, it’s time to make the change.
What cool SMARTR IT and AI and Media [Remote Neuro-Linguistic Programming Control] and hot dumb wars are invariably all about even today, ….. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-02-03/escalation-world-war-iii-and-british-establishment ….. as fans of and slaves to the maintenance and retention of the now rapidly failing, formerly thought unstoppable, status quo of monied elitists dependent upon supplying the ebb and flow and change of attractive empowering credit into disabling debt do stellar virtual battle with New More Orderly World Order forces and sources fully aware of the weaknesses and vulnerabilities in such a system of global capture worthy of targeting to exploit and export to friend and foe alike ………….in furtherance of stealthy surreal shadowy shaded operations for a Novel Change and Great Reset courtesy of New Man Management.
🙂 an Alien Intervention in the Greater Universal Schema of Sublime Internet Networking Things Exercising Experiences Enjoying Employing Entertaining EMPowering Deep and Dark World Wide Web Mastery Skills/Tools/Advantage 🙂 ……. which you are free to choose and dismiss as errant nonsensical GBIrish and just figments of a vibrant fertile imagination even as unfolding upcoming events prove with IT that it be so ….. with one fated and feted to be portrayed and played just as if a pawn in a Greater IntelAIgent Game when not in Commanding Control of Global Communication Head Quarters.
Which is where we is all at here. Where be y’all at elsewhere? Anywhere remotely similar or completely different but still attractive and well worthy of a visit?
Hello Martian.
Was that written by ChatGPT?
I don’t mean to be unkind so I’ll say stream of consciousness?
Or just gibberish..
John
ChatGPT would never write something like that. It looks more like a bad machine translation from the early 90s. ChatGPT writing would look more like BBC news reports: input millions of Reuters and AP wire feeds and it will write scripts saying the same thing in different words that no one will be able to tell were written by a machine. It will look and sound just like a privately educated member of the British Establishment. And have equivalent understanding of what it’s saying 😉
My guess is a spam-bot, ie. the content is the link and the surrounding text is based on mashing together keywords to make it look like acceptable English to a search-bot. 90s tech and techniques rather than 2020s tech and techniques
ChatGPT usually sounds plausible. That post read more like the output of a Markov Chain.
Time for celebration!
I agree with JK ?
Ladies and gentlemen,
on this wonderful Saturday afternoon, we are pleased to welcome you to Haters!
Thank you for choosing to spend time with us.
We value our regular customers highly. Let me thank you for being good people, because our restaurant could not have had centuries of history without your kindness in giving a 5 star (of David) rating to our specialties. But even with such a spectacular start, we wouldn’t have been able to develop further without your vote for our dishes of traditional Muslim cuisine.
Tonight, we are excited to present you the new items of our menu: pâté De l’Ukraine, served flambé; and pOrc à la Russe, choose rare or well-done. An extravaganza of new flavors of good old hatred!
We hope that the efforts of our chef will be appreciated, and our serving staff are counting on a generous tip.
Gentlemen, take a look to your right. There are live gladiator fights going on behind this glass wall. Place your bets and don’t worry about your own safety, the screen is bulletproof.
Lady, look to the left. We have karaoke available. Feel free to take the stage and choose the song you want to perform, from our carefully curated playlists.
Have fun, ladies and gentlemen, have fun.
—
Do you know the correct answer to such an invitation “Thank you, I’m not hungry”
What if you are stuck in “Haters” against your own will and as you falsely claim (like every other manager) “screen is bulletproof”.
Are the doors sealed?
For national and my own security I can not get out of your shity restaurant or stop the shitshow!
All I know is what a waiter tells me because we can not see the stage (far away and the Press around the stage). Waiter only knows that a big guy for no reason punched the little guy. Guest from next table is shouting, that is not true but I can not hear the explanation because of background noise .
Most of us here are not “hungry” but after the guy from the next table explained what he saw happening some of us not booing a big guy anymore while the rest are giving him a rock then 2 then a little knife then a bigger knife etc.
I love Boxing and MMA and UFC but when two fighters are massacring each other I hope one does do KO.
In this case I hope Bahmut and Avdiivka fall as soon as possible and honest peace negotiation start.
Sorry Tatyana but your “Haters” is bad (BTW why David stars and Muslim menu) It can be interpreted in very different ways.
That is what I referred few days ago as” slippery slope”?
Conclusion:
We were sipping wine and Lagavulin and drinking Beer, talking politics in the Free Public House (PUB) and the PUB turned into a night club showing us a show no one was asking or liking.
I am sorry if it came offensive in any way. I am not blood thirsty and understand your worries (son, husband) ?
Thanks for the feedback. It’s educational. We are really very different.
For me, the heroes are those who, even in the totalitarian USSR, found the opportunity to listen to BBC and Radio Liberty. You in your reply described the victim of circumstance, a person in an information vacuum. You described it using the passive voice almost everywhere, except for sipping wine and understanding my concerns.
Thank you anyway. I’m emotional about the topic, so may be exaggerating. It may sound impolite, sorry.
I also understand your concerns about slippery slopes and uncertainty about the accuracy of the information.
I assume that this basic discrepancy (we are at the extremes of the involvement scale) was the reason for Putin’s decision to take matters into his own hands.
Obliviously I misunderstood your restaurant analogy.
Why someone listening to”radio free europe ” in USSR are heroes and connection to my post?
“You in your reply described the victim of circumstance, a person in an information vacuum.”
Disagree. It is not a vacuum of information but a verry few” voices informing me . I do not feel as victim but as a “hero ” listening to those few voices on the “Radio free Europe”
“You described it using the passive voice almost everywhere, except for sipping wine and understanding my concerns.”
I am a couch warrior and do not sip wine but drink beer.
Don’t worry after the next election we could have a human rights lawyer running the country, meaning Britain may finally be taken seriously as the world’s moral tutor.
Unfortunately he’s the kind of human rights lawyer who rejects Human Rights Watch/ Amnesty findings on Israeli apartheid and who thinks NATO is a greater creation than the NHS. In other words, a peculiarly British and “respectable” human rights lawyer.
He (Starmer) has also said that he feels more at home in Davos than in Westminster.
Maybe he should f*ck off to Davos then, or Tel Aviv (“I’m a Zionist”). He won’t be missed here.
Professional soldiers are trained in the use of force through regimens that often, in their dehumanising brutality, internalise those very qualities in their subjects. They are equipped with lethal weaponry and subjected to unimaginable pressures in the theatre of war. I agree with you that it would be naive in the extreme to expect perfect – or even good – behaviour from any nation’s operational armed forces given these factors. From individuals, certainly, but not across the board.
It is also small wonder that the media of any state will minimise its own crimes while magnifying those of its enemies. But that it is natural makes it no less troubling. Even as we are seduced into simple narratives of good and evil, even as we are blatantly propagandised to, we are invited to believe that truth will ultimately shine through in the free, fair and impartial ‘marketplace of ideas’. It is a comforting blanket to throw over the dead.
On a less grim subject, I notice the Steam icon in the image you shared. Forgive my nosiness in so observing, Craig, but it is a cast-iron law of the internet that all screenshots be thus scrutinised, eye of Sauron-style. If this is your own desktop, then I hope you are getting some enjoyment from your gaming laptop in its designated function!
At school, I had to join the cadets (CCF) for a year. From what I can remember, we mainly did drill.
After that one year, we could join infantry, air cadets, sea cadets, or signals corps. They did manouevres and that kind of thing. I joined the quartermaster’s stores; we issued uniforms, and stole the rations. Infantry cadets were encouraged to brutalize their captives when questioning them, on manouevres; not beat them to a pulp, but put them in fear of pain. The age-range in the cadets was from 16-18, and a gangly 16-year-old faced with threats from strapping 18-year-olds would certainly encourage them to give up their secrets, especially if they know their secrets concern the locations of a group of unarmed schoolboys.
The cadets wasn’t for people who wanted a career in the forces; everyone was supposed to join.
I rather wish I had joined signals; they learned electronics, morse, codes, and signalling protocols. It would have been useful.
My point is that being brutal with prisoners is pretty standard, even if they’re schoolboys who are too young to either vote or sign-up. All soldiers are like this – especially if their captive was recently shooting live rounds at them.
” My point is that being brutal with prisoners is pretty standard, even if they’re schoolboys who are too young to either vote or sign-up. ”
No comment! If this is true I am shocked !
Growing up in a socialist country I learned how to shoot and dismantle a rifle at age about 14-16 and invader will lose!
Mine, to be wife (Danish), was impressed that I shot some climbing bears in an amusement park. To her shock and mine they did not have shooting lessons (Danes) at 14.
Yes it looks like we were “Woke”.
According to my “brain washing”, Ukraine will win its “independence” (self defence) and “Donbas” as well (self defence)!
STOP THIS FUCKING WAR!
Craig,
What’s new?
The British Government was involved in systemic torture in Kenya as well as Iraq.
That’s the way of the world. However, not saying that it is right.
Do continue your good work of informing and exposing..
Excellent post. But as Craig and others posting here state, the use of torture by Imperial UK and US and others is nothing new. It is endemic and baked into the system. So much so that the originators of the methods of torture used in both Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were ‘scientifically’ developed by an arm of the CIA known as the RAND Corporation.
What might surprise some readers (it is not really surprising when you think about it) is that the tentacles of the RAND Corporation extend right into our Higher Education and Research structures and the government bodies that support and control HE and Research.
As I showed in an article published in 2016, this includes the Scottish Government and its Scottish Funding Council, who actually pay, from our taxes, for the RAND Corporation to devise means to control University research activity and output, whilst obtaining unique access to research results.
One can readily guess the uses to which these are put.
See below:
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/07/19/the-rand-corporation-nuclear-weapons-war-torture-and-the-scottish-funding-council/
“The body that funds Further and Higher Education in Scotland, The Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council (SFC) has been providing public funds to the Cambridge based UK/European division of a US military think Tank, the RAND Corporation, that has been implicated in every US war since 1945, including Vietnam and Iraq, and as revealed by Pulitzer Prize- winning journalist James Risen, was involved in devising and promulgating the torture methods used in Iraq – most egregiously in Abu Ghraib.
I reveal here that through the SFC, a non-departmental public body directly responsible to the Scottish Government through John Swinney, Cabinet Secretary for Education and Deputy First Minister of Scotland, the Scottish public has been providing substantial funds, over many years, to RAND’s UK/ European offshoot, RAND Europe”.
since it´s about torture n stuff
I bumped into the 700 page strong US Senate report on the CIA torture program from 2014 that you also touch on I assume, led by Sen. Feinstein, subject of the movie “The Report”.
“Report of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency´s Detention and Interrogation Program” – I like that short title
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/publications/CRPT-113srpt288.pdf
and a new piece by Responsible Statecraft on the honourable Special Counsel John Durham, who was asked to:
“conduct a review of the Bush administration’s use of torture as part of the so-called “War on Terror.” aka the CIA torture program.
Durham´s review “ended without criminal consequences for any U.S. officials involved.”
” Another Durham review in need of investigation: torture – Lawmakers want to examine the special counsel’s investigation into Russia-gate. But let’s not forget his other flawed inquiry, years ago.”
interesting hyperlinks included:
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2023/02/06/another-durham-review-in-need-of-investigation-torture/
Auntie Beeb is offering up yet another propaganda piece today: “Ukrainian mothers retrieve their dead sons from the battlefield”
Hey, what about Russian mothers? How do they get their sons’ bodies back (across even longer distances)? Auntie doesn’t say. Maybe those sinister rOrcs just let the bodies get nibbled and devoured by wild animals or leave them to rot into the soil (the heartless sods!)?
The BBC doesn’t address that issue. They merely tell some heart-rending Ukrainian stories, with subtitles in bold – “Dangerous journey“, “Desperate measures“, “Shrouded in secrecy“, “Lost in mourning” – along with photos of people looking very upset. It’s probably all true, genuine and accurate reporting: this is not makey-up propaganda. No, this is more crafty selective propaganda. It’s designed to leave a heavy emotional imprint – “How could those Russian monsters do this?”. We don’t get to see the emotional impact of Ukrainian shells and bullets, so no equivalent sympathy is evoked for their Russian targets. That’s the intended effect. As any propagandist knows, capture the audience’s emotions and their thinking will follow. If you manage to implant a feeling in the audience, it will alter the cognitive landscape and tug at their thoughts, decisions and justifications like an impatient child.
Now, the BBC doesn’t exactly rule out the fact that the Russians no doubt have similar sob stories; we just don’t get to see them. A defensive Auntie might retort that she’s only reporting the Ukrainian side because that’s all she has access to. Those nasty Russians don’t let her tag along and document (aka spy on) everything they’re doing.
There is some logic to that, I suppose – “Don’t you know there’s a war on!” and everything – but why can’t the BBC garner some news reports from behind the Iron Curtain and show some of those as evidence that the Russians are having it equally tough (maybe even more so, if the Ukrainian military is as effective as Western reports suggest)? Well, it’s pretty obvious why not. Auntie is actually very unbalanced, and in war time she doesn’t take her regulatory meds.
So the job of balancing Western propaganda is left to the rebellious and unregulated unofficial media, who unfortunately bang the emotional drum even harder in the opposite direction. They aren’t objective, nor are they accountable for adding egregious fibs into the mix. Their methods are even more unsubtle. Nonetheless, they’re very effective at swaying certain (arguably weak) minds. They aren’t a good antidote for Western propaganda.
It’s a big mistake to play a game of follow-my-leader anyway, even (and especially) when there’s a war on – unless you’re in the military, of course. No, the job of detecting and balancing propaganda isn’t up to the corporate media or the embittered fringe: it’s up to each of us, individually. The ultimate responsibility in spotting selective distortions lies with the news consumer.
It’s more insidious than just attempting to sway minds against a particular event at a particular time. What they do is to keep repeating the same lies constantly, this then becomes embedded as ‘the truth’. People forget that there was ever another narrative. Bad Russia, Plucky Ukraine, Unprovoked Invasion, Evil Assange, Leader of the Free World, World Class Health System, Climate catastrophe, etc. etc.
The antidote is to always remember the ‘Louis Philip Heren’ quote:
“When a politician tells you something in confidence, always ask yourself ‘Why is this lying bastard lying to me?'” One can modify this to be applicable to the BBC … and others.
BBC news and current affairs programming has long practiced disinformation by omission. Omitting key contextual information deliberately can be just as bad as actual disinformation in terms of deception.
Marianna Spring is the BBC’s so-called anti-disinformation ‘expert,’ a title that is as pretentious as it sounds. Not a single tweet from her about the US twitter files. You’d think Matt Taibbi’s detailed work, which revealed the flawed methodologies employed by these so-called experts, methodologies used to assess which accounts are foreign influence linked, would’ve been of great interest to someone like Marianna. Someone in that field of research. Someone who poses as an arbiter of truth. Her silence speaks volumes.
More worryingly, the Online Safety Bill, which is currently slithering its way through parliament, grants enormous power to ban and censor online information and content and is a reaction to similar flawed research, from the many anti-disinfo snake oil merchants out there. These decisions will be made in London, without any accountability and probably lots of govt interference. The stated aim is to ‘make Britain the safest place in the world to go online’ although, N.Korea’s internet will push the UK close for that dishonourable accolade. It’s long been the dream of authoritarians to create an internet secure from the pests purveying contradictory thoughts…
The UK and EU are showing worrying signs of sliding towards totalitarianism. Tory MP and lieutenant colonel in the 77th brigade Tobias Ellwood said in a Sky news interview, he wanted to see the UK put ‘on a war footing,’ in comments many interpreted as a call for martial law. What next? opponents of arming Ukraine to the teeth bring rounded up?
Isn’t the truth, that any dissenting opinion, on virtually any subject, can be spun as somehow being a talking point of the Kremlin. If there’s the incentive of money to be had conducting such fear mongering research. It’s the modern day equivalent of,’ Give me six lines [on Twitter], written by the most honest man in the world, and I will find enough in them to hang him as an agent of the Kremlin!’
99 luft Baloons or was it 99 RED baloons?
Sorry I don’t have a clue why I am writing this but I can not control my urge!
Wasn’t this song one of the best in 80’s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY
Walking the event horizon after reading Craig’s piece I smashed into the criticism of the BBC’s reporting of the government’s Iraq weapons dossier. Gavyn Davies, the BBC chairman resigned and later Director-General Greg Dyke’s position was deemed “unsustainable” by the BBC governors.
The BBC governors eventually morphed into BBC Trustees, trusted to regulate and dispose of obedient truth.
Steve Rosenberg, the BBC’s man in Moscow, iirc, he used a rare press conference to ask Putin what his thoughts were on being compared to Dobby the house-elf from Harry Potter. The other reporters in the room looked embarrassed for Rosenberg, using his platform to ask such pathetic, snidey questions.
The thing to understand, is that the BBC doesn’t care if anyone with a ounce of gumption can immediately see through their propaganda. If you can immediately see through it, then it’s not aimed at you.
The problems with the report Craig highlighted are obvious (I caught it too btw, it was on the Six’o’clock news). The testimony of a defecting Russian officer are as suspect as the testimony of a captured Ukrainian, or those of the downed UK pilots, who were put on Iraqi TV. Of course he’s going to say Russia is evil, guilty as charged to rape, murder, torture, and Ukraine was this happy, united country, just minding its own business, he wouldn’t be sat there were he saying different. The BBC never mentions the ethno-Russian east’s suffering and the strife in that country since the events of early 2014. Just surprised he didn’t add, “Oh and by the way, those lovely Nato(US) missile silos are welcome on our border, that is when Ukraine finally prevails.” The BBC is horribly biased.
Finding truly objective, neutral sources offering factual information and war reporting, is proving nigh on impossible. We’ve no idea what’s really going on because we’re being so heavily propagandised in Europe.
Of course RT TV wasn’t completely neutral either, but before it was banned you could at least see both sides, and discern for yourself. It’s insulting, deeply patronising how RT was banned, supposedly to protect citizens from disinformation.
I don’t know why the likes of google can’t offer an option to see ‘unbiased search results,’ the same with Twitter? I don’t have a Facebook account, nor do I post on Twitter, but I do read Tweets. A basic search of certain people associated with questioning western narratives, returns ‘narrative’ heavy criticisms from obvious western trolling accounts, that isn’t by chance, that’s manipulation. Elon Musk appears to hate the way some in power have used these platforms as propaganda tools.
Goose. Google, Amazon, FB, Twitter all of them are agents of the USA/MIC regime and that includes Musk. The security services provide large numbers of the staff for these multinational NGOs who are owned by the oligarchs that own America.
You will never see unbiased search results or untainted reporting. One has to put in the effort to gather information from various alternative and MSM sources and assess where the truth lies.
Re. Musk see:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/elon-musk-cozy-ties-cia-military-industrial-complex-alan-macleod/283485/
I think Musk self-describes as a social libertarian.
Yes, he has connections to the military complex via SpaceX, but that doesn’t mean he automatically supports things like mass surveillance and social media platforms being used to conduct psy-ops; push propaganda and algorithmic suppression of ‘narrative’ wrongthink.
If Russia, China doing that is a bad thing, then likewise, the West doing it is also bad? That’s called being consistent. Anyone who truly believes in democracy wouldn’t support such an abuse of power. Imagine a political candidate in the US or UK, who was seeking election, openly saying they agreed with such psy-ops and with the population being manipulated/ monitored… They wouldn’t get elected.
There’s a war for liberty underway in the West and allies might not necessarily be those you’d expect.
The enemies of liberty and freedom of speech aren’t the Russians or CCP, they’re the home grown overreaching authoritarian, permanent officials. People who’ve wanted to stamp on internal dissent, long before anyone had a bad word to say about Putin’s Russia. Long before the internet existed in its current form.
The West has a long history of such people, and their intel programmes that sought to psychologically control and manipulate whole populations like sheep. Russia and China and their alleged attempts to influence online discourse in the west now, are just convenient bogeymen. Useful, to those in the West who want complete narrative control.
As to what is driving this? I’d imagine their real fear is that the neoliberal order could soon be threatened, by growing inequalities and scarcity of natural resources resulting in mass migration. Thus grabbing control of mass communication media, makes some sort of twisted sense.
cont-
The desire of powerful people to control the masses is even older than the ‘Red Scares’ of the early – then throughout the 20th-century.
Organised religion being the most egregious example of controlling behaviour by elites; heretics to be punished, some with death. Nothing is new, and society falls for this shit every single time. The gullible Ursula von der Leyen and most MEPs believe Europe is being deluged with Russian online disinformation based on these bogus non-peer reviewed ‘research studies.’
We saw with Paul Mason, how some serviceable, pseudo-social sciences pap can be created that falsely links, wholly disparate groups and individuals together. Based on little more than Mason’s caffeine (or possibly something stronger?) fueled imagination.
“A vast tapestry of lies”
re: disinformation
For most here not new. For me in this particular detail it was:
Washington Post reported in its “Technology” section on March 25th 2022 that social media giants were surprised by the war.
Thus their “filter rules” were considered unfit for the job.
They swiftly adapted and created two different set of rules for the same content: war crimes etc. from Ukraine / war crimes from Russia and affiliates.
Thus youtube would censor a video about war crimes by Ukraine as “hate speech” and erase. While a video about war crimes by Russians was now considered “info about the war” and preserved and well disseminated. This double standard of course set the entire infrastructure for the following disinformation war.
Naturally Washington Post only says so between the lines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/25/social-media-ukraine-rules-war-policy/
I am indebted to this info to Swiss former military NATO/UN expert Jacques Baud in his book “Operation Z” which I recommend to everyone. It is in French at Max Milo publisher in Paris. There is also an English version but without the footnotes which in this case is decisive info. Baud explicitely researched Operation Z only using Western sources. So as I did, may be get both.
But here the excerpt from Operation Z:
“(…) In Ukraine, in the wake of the Russian advance, videos showing crimes committed by the Ukrainian military are surfacing on social media. We see Russian prisoners of war beaten, tortured, who are mutilated by shooting them in the kneecaps or in the genitals, even by gouging out their eyes. This unhealthy publicity is applauded by all our media, before being qualified as Russian propaganda. Facebook, YouTube, TikTok and Twitter hastily redraft their usage guidelines: praising a neo-Nazi militia or calling for violence against Russians is now allowed in the context of war, while content favorable to Russia are blocked .(…)
Baud introduces this by reminding of the Benghazi lie by Bernard-Henri Lévy that was contradicted by US intelligence in 2011. But nonetheless the lie was the start for no-fly-zone over Lybia and consequences:
“(…) From the start of the Russian offensive, despite Western boasting, the Ukrainian army was in check. Our media will not notice it until four months later, but Zelensky already knows it. Its air force wasdestroyed on the ground in the first hours of the offensive and, without it, Ukraine has little chance of regaining the advantage. Zelensky therefore asks the West to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine, but they are not ready to intervene militarily. The temptation is then strong for Ukraine to repeat the scenario of Benghazi, in Libya. In February 2011, Bernard-Henri Lévy claimed that the Libyan armed forces would have perpetrated a massacre there. On these allegations, the United Nations Security Council authorizes the establishment of a no-fly zone over Libya, which will lead to the overthrow of Gaddafi. As expected, the information was wrong! The American intelligence services had observed no massacres in Benghazi, but no politician wanted to listen to them. In March 2022, things do not seem to be going as planned for Westerners. In the United States, President Biden is struggling with the economic situation and his son ‘s laptop scandal; in France, Emmanuel Macron is targeted by the McKinsey scandal, just before the presidential election, while EU leaders are beginning to feel that their sanctions are turning against the European economy. (…)”
” Baud explicitely researched Operation Z only using Western sources. ”
But I thought these ‘western sources’ were full of lies and not to be trusted?
“But I thought these ‘western sources’ were full of lies and not to be trusted?”
Of course, but, as any fule kno, those lies are not likely to be in favour of the West’s enemies.
Dear Pears,
what Baud meant of course was information he had checked in earnest, since it´s his job, but when sorting out what source to use for the book, as most info has multiple sources, he chose for this book to always quote the Western source in contrast to a non-Western source, regardless that both sources would say the same, simply because then his Western readers whom Baud tries to educate (he IS a decent fella) would take that info seriously. Were it sources ike Sputnik or RT, they would ignore the book and its findings.
Frankly I liked that approach, greets, yours SOUUURCE
the BBC was created in direct reaction to the trauma of Ireland’s successful rebellion a hundred years ago. its propaganda was to be a bulwark against the breakup of the rest of Britain. Lord Reith said that had an equivalent of the BBC existed in 18th century France there could never have been a revolution. it was his mission he said to bind every ordinary family to the royal one. Reith could not have imagined the BBC would still be succeeding in that mission after a century of social revolution and mass education. surely the most cast-iron case for the brainwashing power of BBC propaganda.
great info for me a non-Brit.
suggested reading on this possibly?
sure, try Tom Mills, the BBC: myth of a public service (verso, 2022)
there was also a good discussion of the BBC, including its creation and private intended purpose, on this recent episode of the Watchdog podcast
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2gDt2lc919K0c8IzENgbuv?si=aDT8xrVzTqOLYJVRF_hcNg
Where that hypothesis fails is that the BBC started out as a private venture which the government initially tried to silence. It wasn’t nationalised until 1926; the same year it began broadcasting news bulletins in response to the General Strike affecting the printing and distribution of newspapers. By then only 30,000 licences had been issued so the corporation’s reach was hardly widespread.
none of that refutes a single thing I wrote. it was intended as a reactionary propaganda op from day one. its purpose did not change when it switched from being oligarch to state controlled.
zoot & Pears
thx for the info!
both approaches highly engaging I find.
These matters – the economic and political history of major media outlets – are surprisingly underdeveloped in the public.
Regarding how influencial they are.
The only discussion in some form taking place is in fiction, via feature & series.
(It is like what German left sociology pointed out – but I guess not only them – about the 19th century novel: It encapsulated those very promises that the bourgeoisie had made to the working-class in real-life and then had abandoned. Henceforth happiness or at least emotional fulfillment was restricted to the world of fiction.)
Most people are not very interested in politics or the news generally; that’s why they uncritically believe most of what the mass media tell them, with some additional bias in favour of what their parents brought them up to believe.
It’s easy to criticise this attitude – “head in the sand”; “All That Is Needed For Evil To Succeed, Is For Good People To Do Nothing”; etc. But really, what can the ordinary person do to influence events? It is within my power to do good to my friends and my family; I can improve their lives, even if only by a little; I try to do no wrong to anybody. But what can I do about the implacable destruction of Julian Assange, or about the steady drumbeat for war coming from Washington, or the torrent of lies coming from most politicians?
I can, and I do, contribute to this blog. I support Stop the War. This makes me feel as though I am doing what I can, but – realistically – neither of these has perceptible influence on events. Someone included in the “most people” of my opening sentence might reasonably point out that my awareness – which costs me time – has no more result than their apathy.
Roger I agree. When people give their political opinions they’re usually poorly informed because they honestly don’t give it much thought. They have their life to take care of and the truth of the matter is so complex, so evil and so twisted that trying to explain it to most people makes you sound like a paranoid whack job. Just like people have no idea about how the money in their pocket comes to be they have no idea why Britain is in the position it’s in.
Hello Roger.
Stop the War is a bit wishy washy as to its demands.
The banner at the top says
STOP THE WAR IN UKRAINE – RUSSIAN TROOPS OUT
NO NATO EXPANSION – NO NUCLEAR WAR
Fair enough.
Though NO NATO EXPANSION is vague as to whether it is directed solely at Ukraine or also at Sweden and Finland.
NO NUCLEAR WAR is hardly controversial. Unless it means that we gotta do what Vlad says or he will press the button?
But reading down we see ” Join us in Central London on Sat 25th Feb and make our demands heard: Stop the War in Ukraine – Peace Talks Now!”.
No mention of Russian withdrawal.
Reading further we see another banner
Peace Talks Now – Stop the War in Ukraine
Then (in a smaller font)
No to the Russian Invasion – No to NATO – No to Nuclear War.
So the “demands” don’t include Russian withdrawal while the banners do…
Hardly an oversight?
All the best,
John
Agent Kinsella here applies the old role of confusion, an Irish fellow who loves unionism and whose questions are only placed whence he has an answer to it.
Thing is he seemingly supports the control of free speech in public places, which does make him a likely supporter of warmongers such as Johnson, Ellwood and Truss, who, without wanting a mandate, are working towards a war footing to avert a massive Conservative defeat at the next election.
That Starmer is no alternative, just another side of the same damn coin does make any difference to them, they are in full flight dreaming of a war that will keep them in office.
No to war and No2NATO should happen anywhere there is space. How dare is anybody stopping an opposition to a profiteering war by diverting attention away from undemocratic electoral self serving and a global engagement in a futile war to save n..i in Ukraine not to mention a shoddy unionism in Ireland.
You are not a good representative of your Dingle forebears John.
I repeat, you are taking the shilling
Ah now nevermind.
I post here under my own name.
You can ‘doxx’ me if you want?
Whereas you have the comfort of anonymity.
You call me “an Irish fellow who loves unionism and whose questions are only placed whence he has an answer to it.”
I strongly support a re-united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
I have never posted here or elsewhere to support unionism.
Can you defend that accusation?
If not you should withdraw it.
All the best,
John
Thanks for clearing your stance re a united Ireland John I take it back that you are not a unionist. You nevertheless appear to be a very ardent supporter of this current Government and those who want to stop free speech at a time when too many sabres are rattling for war.
Did you ever withdraw your ” accusation ” of me being a Russian.
2 times explicitly and to my perception implying it for a 3rd time (could be winding me up).
As a Irish yourself I would expect more nuanced approach to the whole problem.
I would expect that you will be leading voice, trying to draw parallels between Ireland, NI and GB.
Instead you sound like the hard right English Tory.
Dear all, may I suggest the interview of Naftali Bennet, Former Prime Minister of Israel
https://youtu.be/qK9tLDeWBzs
There are time checks in the description, I suggest
2:20:30 Relations with Putin
2:32:22 Mediating between Ukraine and Russia
2:40:05 Behind the scenes mediating
Some truly amazing revelations. Whoever praised Zelensky for being a brave man in the battlefield 🙂 he got out of his bunker after getting a firm promise Putin won’t kill him 🙂
Negotiations, concessions from both sides, the peace agreement could be achieved, and why the ceasefire never happened.
The comments under the video are great and informative, too.
If we may trust him? I don’t know. I believe he has some limits, there are things which he cannot say. Perhaps, as usual, they may be important things to give better understanding of the context
But what attracted my attention is why the peace agreement was not achieved.
Mr.Bennett says France anf Germany took a pragmatic approach, the US (Biden, Blinken, Sullivan) were 50/50 aggressive/pragmatic. And Boris Johnson was pro-agressive.
I think that after this revelation Mr. Murray may be assured, that Skripal story is fabricated by British special service with the help of Skripal himself, a native of Ukraine.
I thought the Skripal case has had so many interpretations that no one particular by legal standards is finally to be agreed on. Its up to personal gusto. Which makes it a non-case.
I preferred the one where I believe Christopher Steele used Skripal as an intelligence asset.
(was it not one of 7 scenarios Mr. Murray had laid out in a text?)
Or am I mixing up things now?
p.s. did any Russia scare story ever materialize?
Russiagate? Skripal?Litvinenko?Navalny? which one did I miss?
Every single one of them potentially a circus performance.
And it was clear from the outset.
The moment those stories found the public they were obviously hot air.
So for holding out so long there were political interests behind them pushing the narratives as long as anti-Russia sentiment had built up enough.
Shabby I must say.
ah, it’s personal, AG. I first landed on this site when searching for answers to the Skripal riddle. I was reading Mr. Murray’s blog about this, then I went down to the comments section and saw the discussion. I joined the discussion. It was funny, interesting, informative! And that’s how I settled here. Nostalgia 🙂
I don’t always agree with Mr. Murray, and sometimes I think I feel like I’m annoying him. He can even be rude, but he nevertheless lets me speak, and I feel immense respect for his position on freedom of speech. The people populating the comments section is something wonderful. A real live community, a discussion club with many opinions. And the moderators are great.
Since you mention Mr. Murray, I think past summer he wrote about his visit to Turkey. There he might have been told some sensitive details about the RU/UKR negotiations. As it was confidential he could not yet reveal. As to “killing Z” (could be a title) – I don´t believe the Russians ever seriously considered this. After all Zelensky won the election on the peace ticket (just like Poroshenko I believe). Only then he realized what kind of people he was surrounded with. Why he stayed there I don´t understand. Naivité? A feeling of grandeur? Politics as the pinnacle of acting? Trust in his protectors? Whatever. He was not the worst choice for Putin who couldn´t want any more trouble in Ukraine. And why should Putin kill him? Because he is Russian? All these allegations reveal a considerable amount of racism towards Russia and Russian. As brought up in Germany I know enough about that (also regarding Poles, Ukrainians et al.) but the fear of the Russian half beast hlaf man has proven too consistent to be surprised by today´s state. Still personally I thought we were over this crap. I really did. All the spook stuff invented by MI-6 I assumed its for the tabloids only. Well I was wrong.
p.s. anyway Bennett´s showing off worked, it´s all over now. but that won´t change a thing.
killing Z 🙂
The video is in Hebrew or Yiddish, I’m sorry I don’t know these languages. They were kind to add English and Russian subtitles, so many Russians are in the comments there. I must add, that those Russians are not necessarily Russians in Russia, but very well may be Russians in Israel, or ex-Russian Israelis, or any ex-USSR Russian speakers.
This point of Mr.Bennett raised a wave in the comments. He somehow distorts the sense and I don’t know why he explains that de-nazification may mean ‘killing Z’.
Mr. Bennett says he was busy with inner Israel affairs before this war, he says he had to quickly learn the history of the region. Had to speak to the leaders, to understand the situation. Either voluntary or not, he poses as a naive person, unaware of the nazi problem in Ukraine.
I was attracted by his words about opening a hospital in Lvov. This city is full of Bandera supporters, nazis and similar people. Informally, it’s considered the capital city of Ukrainian radical nationalism. Long long ago, before USSR desintegrated, I think this image of the city lasted through all the post WW2 time. The name Banderista is a common noun, an appellative in Russian language, used for West Ukrainians.
There’s a big monument to Bandera in the city. Imagine a triumphal arch, columns, and a 4-meter statue of Hitler’s collaborator, mastermind of the Volyn massacre. There’s a photo in the Wiki
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%83_%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5_(%D0%9B%D1%8C%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2)
The memorial was built in place of the former Polish church of St. Elizabeth, that was perceived as a provocation. Poles and Israelis know the man. Remember him up to today. Recently, Ukrainian defence man Zaluzhny posted on Twitter a selfie with Bander’s portrait on the wall, so Polish and Israeli people demanded to remove the posting.
https://twitter.com/dupontaignan/status/1620426580777664513?s=20&t=IifxrOMqN63qgeS8xjkRLQ
(Twitter doesn’t work for me, so I post the link without cheking. It must bring you to French politician Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, condemning the posting)
Zaluzhy, that same person who once posted a selfie in a bracelet with a swastica. Well, the photo was unclear, and some days later we were presented with a page on Amazon, selling this sort of bracelets and explanations about the old viking pattern etc. Which explanation I found ridiculos, as an Amazon seller myself, I know how to add and how to edit my pages 🙂
Well, I was interested to know how the Israeli hospital works in such an environment.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-shuts-ukraine-field-hospital-after-6-weeks-medical-team-returns-home/
I doesn’t function, they closed it 6 weeks after opening.
—
Looks like hard ban on mentioning the scale of nazism in Ukraine. Total censorship.
There, Mr. Bennett talks so calmly about Israel’s interests in Syria 🙂
I’m just amazed at this position, or rather, how he reports it as something normal. In fact, Israel illegally occupies the territory of Syria, namely the Golan Heights. There are also UN resolutions condemning the behavior of the State of Israel. The question of the Palestinians also arises.
I understand why he mentions Russia (which, by the way, is legally present in Syria, at the invitation of the Syrian government). Mr. Bennet definitely doesn’t like the Russian anti-missile systems there, which prevent Israel from attacking Iranian facilities.
Actually, that region has a complex and confusing history, so I decided to study it a bit.
If someone understands Russian, you might be curious to listen to Karine Gevorgyan in the program “Iran, Judea, Khazaria”. Unfortunately there are no English subtitles, but I sent a request to add it.
https://youtu.be/8dqK0oLSBgI
> “Zaluzhy, that same person who once posted a selfie in a bracelet with a swastica. Well, the photo was unclear, and some days later we were presented with a page on Amazon, selling this sort of bracelets and explanations about the old viking pattern etc. Which explanation I found ridiculos, as an Amazon seller myself, I know how to add and how to edit my pages”
See if you find this report from France 24 “ridiculous”:
https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20221012-we-take-a-look-at-the-ukrainian-commander-in-chief-s-swastika-bracelet
You can see the same bracelet from other angles here:
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2022/10/fact-check-ukrainian-generals-bracelet-does-not-feature-swastika-its-a-motif-called-solomons-knot.html
I don’t doubt there are many people around who would prefer it to be a swastika, because it simplifies the moral argument (‘mark of the beast’ = devil). There may be devils on both sides, but they aren’t so easily identified, unfortunately.
Hello Tatyana.
Zelinsky has his capital under attack.
If he is in a bunker, that is because the Putin regime is shelling Kyiv.
Churchill had a bunker. Did that make him a coward?
The “great” Stalin had a bunker too.
Putin, on the other hand, has stayed in Moscow, far far from the front.
No bunker needed.
путин — герой?
Actually no.
Yes it did John, according to his chiropodist, a polish blue blood who lost her estates to the German fascists, he was the first down the bunker and hated doodle bugs.
After a long days work at the house she worked in the 1980′ s, still, still she was an old lady of stature, we had tea and bisquits and her initial rejection of this German who worked on the house all day vanished as she told the story.
Churchill relaxed down the bunker , by having his feet massaged by her, a wiski at hand and a cigar alight.
But John does not know this, he’s fishing for attention showing of his Russian language training.
You are such an open debater to him Tatyana, not sure whether he deserves it.
I don’t think anybody in London had any warm feelings towards Doodlebugs.
Churchill didn’t spend the entire war cowering in his bunker, he toured bombed areas of the country, visited the frontline at Hellfire Corner (Dover), North Africa and Normandy, crossed the Atlantic to meet Roosevelt in 1941 and flew to Moscow to meet Stalin in 1942. Two journeys were not without risk.
re: Bennett
for those who prefer shorter text,
Sputniknews has some from Bennett here:
https://sputniknews.com/20230205/ex-israeli-pm-reveals-big-concessions-putin-zelensky-were-ready-to-make-before-west-killed-talks-1106993054.html
I had to use TOR
It ‘s probably the first time that I have agreed with something that John Kinsella has said, but I do agree that the Stop the War response has been wishy-washy, although for evidently different reasons. I am a member of Stop the War but I think it made a great mistake in advocating Russian withdrawal as the solution to stopping the war without also stopping to critically analyse the causes of the war, which lie in the illegal USA backed 20i4 Maidan inspired coup and the new Ukraine regime’s war on its own people, when correctly in fear of their future they opposed what was taking place. All at terrible cost.
I remember tuning into some online discussions before the beginning of the SMO with the focus on will Russia or won’t it, or is it all NATO propaganda that it might? What was missing or underplayed in those discussions, probably because it had been kept secret from the public if not the western media was the extent of the massive build up of Ukraine’s forces which were certainly not there just for defensive purposes and considerably more than enough to regain the control of the breakaway republics and even Crimea. In retrospect it is quite easy to see why Russia jumped into action before it was pushed.
It is not just Stop the War that has failed to think clearly but there are many on the left aligned with it who, beguiled by Ukraine propaganda, are somehow deluded into thinking that a victorious Ukraine will enhance the socialist cause there, when it is clear that something more akin to Nazism is resulting with the suppression of trade unions and workers’ rights, economic power in the hands of oligarchs and multi – national companies, widespread corruption, suppression of non-Ukrainian religions, discrimination against ethnic minorities amounting in some case to ethnic cleansing.
Stop the War is perhaps just beginning to light the candle to illuminate the situation in a different way, which is why the establishment is so anxious to snuff it out by trying to prevent the February conference taking place.
” What was missing or underplayed in those discussions, probably because it had been kept secret from the public if not the western media was the extent of the massive build up of Ukraine’s forces which were certainly not there just for defensive purposes ”
Perhaps it wasn’t reported by the western media because it never happened. Whereas of course the massive and well publicised Russian build-up the other side of the border, which had been going on for months, was no threat to anyone.
It was obvious that Stop the War dumping it’s usual campism and actually daring to be critical of a non-Western aggressor was going to ruffle some feathers.
“Perhaps it wasn’t reported by the western media because it never happened. ”
Harold Pinter agrees with you there in his 2005 Nobel Prize speech:
“Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America.”
Hi Crispa
I don’t think that we agree on anything really but perhaps you will consider a request for information?
Do you have any contemporary (pre-invasion) evidence (links, newspaper articles etc) to support your claim that there was a “massive build up of Ukraine’s forces which were certainly not there just for defensive purposes and considerably more than enough to regain the control of the breakaway republics and even Crimea.”?
I note your use of the term SMO rather than invasion.
Do you have a criterion for using one rather than the other?
Thanks,
John
Here’s an article about the Ukraine buildup towards invading the Donbass before the Russian invasion.
http://www.soldiersforpeaceinternational.org/2022/03/documents-indicate-ukraine-planned.html
There’s a link in that SfP page labelled ‘documents’. Open it and it’s a Facebook page that states that the information was taken down because it was fake…
Article on the Russian build up from April 2021.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/unpacking-russian-troop-buildup-along-ukraines-border
this being an English site, here a news item I didn´t know about:
London Times, Febr 2nd
“Who attacked the Nord Stream pipelines?-In this global whodunnit, the US, Russia and even Britain have all been suspects”
https://archive.is/hgrpl
“I don’t think it is surprising that there is not a set of conclusive evidence yet,” said Benjamin Schmitt, the former US state department energy adviser. “This may be a scenario where we may never have a smoking gun.”
Had Russia done it you can be sure the world would have been presented with conclusive evidence immediately back in the autumn. What Washington is now saying to Germans is: Yes of course we did it, and there are gonna be vast repercussions for your economy and standard of living! What ya gonna do about it? You ain’t doing shit. Suck it up, Krauts.
Wow! who is Krauts?
It’s a derogatory term Americans use for Germans.
Thank you. I find this site extremely informative and educational.
Derived from ‘sauerkraut’.
educational and informative place this site is! Thank you
re Krauts.
Is it the first time you’ve seen that?
Many nationalities are defined by foodstuffs.
Poms – Australian nickname for English immigrants – short for pomegranate – referring to their ruddy complexions.
Kiwis – UK slang for New Zealander, relates to kiwifruit and/or the Kiwi – the native bird.
Limey(s) – US slang nickname for British. The British Navy gave its sailors limes or lemon juice rations to ward off scurvy. Many new arrivals had scurvy and gum disease resulting in tooth decay and loose teeth due to the lack of Vitamin C. Thus the idea the British having ‘bad teeth’ per se, was embedded in US culture.
Froggy & Froggies – British nickname for French. Frog legs(Cuisses de grenouille) are considered a delicacy in France but not in England or rUK.
Les Rosbifs – French nickname for the English, originally relating to how we cook beef. Revived because of British holiday makers’ tendency to get excessively sunburned.
One popular Russian food that has gained traction in the US,UK and Europe in recent decades is Kefir (fermented milk drinks) because they promote a ‘healthy’ gut bacteria balance. The Caucasus mountains in the former Soviet Union, a quick google search informs. It’s much older than that though.
Thank you! it’s very entertaining.
Kefir 🙂 my mother is a professional engineer and dairy technologist, so I know about kefir, cheese and a lot of dairy things. In Russia they don’t call it a bacterium, but ‘kefir fungus’, it’s zoogloea.
GOOS
Didn’t know Limeys!
In modern English it is just Frogs innit.
Any stomach problem I suggest Kefir? and Vitamin D
GOOSE
I thought Poms was from
“Pommes de Terre ” potatoes in French.
Pomegranate is to sophisticate and exotic.
Sorry but neither “Aussies” or Poms are that sophisticated?
Pigeon English, “Poms” is short for “Pommies”, which supports the “pomegranate” theory.
BAYARD
I know that everywhere you go in Uk there are Pomegranates.
I wonder when and where you saw your first Pomegranate.
Sorry but you lovely guys from Engerland look more like potatoes to me than a pomegranate (those
Ginger guys from Scotland fit the Pomegranate description).
Honestly, no sarcasm. If Gosse and Bayard claim it is 99% true, there is still 1% chance I am right.
Why not try using a search engine (assuming you’re connected to the internet?).
Top results:
https://www.countrylife.co.uk/comment-opinion/curious-questions-australians-call-british-poms-200250
https://australiatravelquestions.com/history/why-do-australians-call-the-english-poms/
i.e. “pom” is Aussie short slang for “pomegranate” rhymed with “Jimmy Grant” = “immigrant”.
Dawng @ 19:31
You post a link :
“There are lots of suggestions out there. Perhaps it is an acronym for Prisoner of Millbank, where many convicts were held before deportation, or Prisoner of His Majesty, or Prisoner of Mother England? The latter two are particularly unconvincing as an ad” …..
Txs for suggesting Google!
BTW Bayard confirmed politely pomegranate theory and 1 hour later you come with patronizing comment. Cockney rhyme does make sense and google does not show cockney slang for dickhead or bellend
Well, you didn’t seem too keen on Bayard’s answer. And it doesn’t refer to “ruddy complexions” (as Goose proposed) – or sunburn. Maybe you found the other suggestions distracting. Here’s a quicker route to the answer:
Search “pom Aussie slang”
I’m glad you’ve discovered Google: there’s a whole world of information and enlightenment waiting for you out there on the interweb.
(“Patronizing”? Pffft! I’ll show *you* “patronising” , sonny boy …)
?
the least liked and most short lived Pm Liz Truss can deny her txt to Blinken all she likes, I cant see her suing the MsM for her narcissist behaviour.
Why and what for did she txt ‘Its done’ almost instantly after this terror act against a fellow NATO partner was carried out?
Sucking it up they did, as debate and discussion was shunned in Germany, despite the fact that most of my friends I talked to afterwards had some suspicions about Bidens/Nulands previously uttered threats.
Maybe its time to debate the repatriation of US and English bases who are threatening the security of Germany.
Should Nato members be worried about being whipped by those they have given decades of support to?
Indeed.
Biden: “There will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it”.
Blinken: Nord Stream explosions are a “tremendous opportunity” for the USA.
Nuland at a Senate hearing last week said to Ted Cruz: “Senator, like you, I am, and I think the administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea”.
“Who attacked the Nord Stream pipelines?-In this global whodunnit, the US, Russia and even Britain have all been suspects”
“even”!
It is telling that the western msm propaganda about Russia proved to be nothing but nonsense, Russia was nowhere near as powerful as the west have made it to be past decade. Still, this sentiment is still ruling, it is like all critical thinking barriers have been broken in the media, even a whole lot of people to the left have become eager warmongers, just like how they flipped when WW1 started.
Soon 1 year will have passed with this war, it seems the war is at a standstill, and has been, for months. How much value will the DPR, LPR really hold for Russia if Ukraine is able to attack it daily? Which civilians are going to come back and live here? Will the war turn into a frozen conflict and is the regions mentioned above to become a no-mans-land? I cannot fathom anything else that Russia, in the end, will have to retreat.
If Russia’s a paper tiger then what does that make the USA, whose annual military expenditure is 15 times larger than Russia’s? Washington threw the kitchen sink at Afghanistan for 20 years and still got run out of the country by men on bicycles. Same story as Vietnam, another peasant land the Americans fled clinging onto the bottom of helicopters.
U watt
My point was the scaremongering about Russia did not add up in the end.
Yes US have made the same mistakes, but that does not make Russia look any better.
well, if we’re making assumptions, I could make up a plausible story about the collapse of NATO.
It will most likely start this year with Turkey’s attack on Greece. Erdogan is already making, uh… statements hinting at the ethnocide of the Greeks in the past. The European Union and the United States in this conflict between the two countries of the NATO bloc will be torn between maintaining a subsidized ally on the continent, and supporting a powerful ally who holds the Bosphorus. From a military point of view, the second is preferable.
As soon as it supports Muslims against Christians, we could see an XXX-exit parade similar to the parade of sovereignties during the collapse of the USSR. Small countries seek alliances with more powerful “patrons”, but with this US policy of bleeding Europe with anti-Russian sanctions, even the most improbable geopolitical events may become possible.
In all this, I most of all feel sorry for Poland. It seems that it is already an established tradition to start global conflicts with the partition of Poland.
In the turmoil, the BRICS countries will quickly realize that their survival depends on their ability to form a military alliance. I’m not sure about India, but definitely Iran and China. And the Japanese will cry, because in China the memory of the Nanjing Massacre is alive, perhaps even more than the memory of Nazi Germany is alive in Russia.
Will Africa want to join? Is the memory of the Belgians chopping off their hands on rubber plantations alive in them? The question is interesting. Maybe. There is now a mess in Mali with the expulsion of French troops. Perhaps other ex-colonies would like to follow the movement.
Israel will cease to exist.
Britain and Australia will try to control the sea routes from Taiwan to the Persian Gulf.
I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone on this planet, I think that someone can imagine such a development, weigh the pros and cons, and decide that one small nuclear strike might be the best way out. We can even conduct a worldwide survey, you know – democracy, the will of the people. Somewhere on Twitter. A poll. Like:
a) WW3
b) one small nuclear strike in a remote part of our planet, and we all pretend it was a meteorite accident
I do like the part with the meteorite
* * *
p.s. “Krauts” meaning “cabbage-eaters”, cabbage just like in Eastern Europe, if red cabbage, often cooked as dish with venison.
Very healthy, people eat in winter (vitamin C), used with sausage e.g. in the summer in Beergarden.
And it makes you fart.
So while with Chekhov Germans are usually doctors, with Americans they are mostly former Nazis eating “Kraut”. btw – has some genius found a reason to ban Chekhov? There must surely be SOMETHING wrong with HIM.
enough clichés for a day.
Them Americans know nothing. German traditional cuisine is close to the one in the middle zone of Russia. Fermented cabbage. I can cook it. You should add carrot and no bad effect occurs. The same with pea soup, we cook it with smoked pork ribs.
By the way, sauerkraut can even become an art object. I loaded a photo from my kitchen table in a Chinese neural network. The result is a ready-made print for an anime-style poster. And it recognized the carrots!
https://cs8.livemaster.ru/storage/7c/09/75fdf970285daac3080f1461251z.jpg
well the cabbage in your bottle is they way to do it. Sauerkraut is different. Its usually cooked and looses its texture. I don´t like that. Carrots indeed new to me.
Russian style sauerkraut comes to table right from the jar. It’s traditional appetizer/snack going with vodka. Crispy, cold, sauer, slight flavor of bay leaf, black pepper, allspice, a bit of horseradish.
You must have one traditional dish, made of beet root and herring. We cook one similar, without herring, but with this sauerkraut. Vinaigrette.
in Germany you would now have to suggest that your “Russian” fermented cabbage is actually “Ukrainian”.
* * *
I dont know how the Russian diners here handle it.
One I visit from time to time, its around since 1970s, has a few dishes´ names changed to “Ukrainian”.
May be hot dog stands in D.C. should also rename their location “merchant of death eatery”, or “Falludja-Burger”.
* * *
It´s also astonishing how completely Romanian and Polish authorities have forgotten about their CIA black sites for torture.
* * *
I don´t now what is really going on on the ground either in Russia or Ukraine. Though it does appear to be more likely to get shot in Ukraine right now if you are against the war effort, than in Russia.
In Germany you hear almost nothing about the state of affairs of dissent in Ukraine. It´s like a giant black hole.
Tatyana,
it´s called
Blaukraut (blue cabbage) in Southern Germany and parts of Austria
Rotkohl (red cabbage) in the North.
blue or red – depending on the quantity of vinegar; ingredients: chopped onions, sour apples, spices; different kinds of sausages, or pork, or fried egg; served steaming hot in winter,
Considerable regional differences in traditional cooking in Germany and Austria.
svea, here it’s served cooled.
A mix of boiled beetroot, carrot, potato. Sauer things are pickled cucumbers and fermented cabbage. Canned green peas, chopped onion and a little of dill or parsley, or both. In my region the dressing is sunflower seed oil, no vinegar.
https://1000.menu/cooking/25387-vinegret-variant-klassicheskogo