I am completely at a loss as to why the UK should seek to join in with the US in considering China an enemy, and in looking to build up military forces in the Pacific to oppose China.
In what sense are Chinese interests opposed to British interests? I am not sure when I last bought something which wasn’t maufactured in China. To my astonishment that even applies to our second hand Volvo, and it also applies to this laptop.
I have stated this before but it is worth restating:
I cannot readily think of any example in history, of a state which achieved the level of economic dominance China has now achieved, that did not seek to use its economic muscle to finance military acquisition of territory to increase its economic resources.
In that respect China is vastly more pacific than the United States, United Kingdom, France, Spain or any other formerly prominent power.
Ask yourself this simple question. How many overseas military bases does the USA have? And how many overseas military bases does China have?
Depending on what you count, the United States has between 750 and 1100 overseas military bases. China has between 6 and 9.
The last military aggression by China was its takeover of Tibet in 1951 and 1959. Since that date, we have seen the United States invade with massive destruction Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.
The United States has also been involved in sponsoring numerous military coups, including military support to the overthrow of literally dozens of governments, many of them democratically elected. It has destroyed numerous countries by proxy, Libya being the most recent example.
China has simply no record, for over 60 years, of attacking and invading other countries.
The anti-Chinese military posture adopted by the leaders of US, UK and Australia as they pour astonishing amounts of public money into the corrupt military industrial complex to build pointless nuclear submarines, appears a deliberate attempt to create military tension with China.
Sunak recited the tired neoliberal roll call of enemies, condemning: “Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, China’s growing assertiveness, and destabilising behaviour of Iran and North Korea”.
What precisely are Iran and China doing, that makes them our enemy?
This article is not about Iran, but plainly western sanctions have held back the economic and societal development of that highly talented nation and have simply entrenched its theological regime.
Their purpose is not to improve Iran but to maintain a situation where Israel has nuclear weapons and Iran does not. If accompanied by an effort to disarm the rogue state of Israel, they might make more sense.
On China, in what does its “assertiveness” consist that makes it necessary to view it as a military enemy? China has constructed some military bases by artificially extending small islands. That is perfectly legal behaviour. The territory is Chinese.
As the United States has numerous bases in the region on other people’s territory, I truly struggle to see where the objection lies to Chinese bases on Chinese territory.
China has made claims which are controversial for maritime jurisdiction around these artificial islands – and I would argue wrong under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. But they are no more controversial than a great many other UNCLOS claims, for example the UK’s behaviour over Rockall.
China has made, for example, no attempt to militarily enforce a 200 mile exclusive economic zone arising from its artificial islands, whatever it has said. Its claim to a 12 mile territorial sea is I think valid.
Similarly, the United States has objected to pronouncements from China that appear contrary to UNCLOS on passage through straits, but again this is no different from a variety of such disputes worldwide. The United States and others have repeatedly asserted, and practised, their right of free passage, and met no military resistance from China.
So is that it? Is that what Chinese “aggression” amounts to, some UNCLOS disputes?
Aah, we are told, but what about Taiwan?
To which the only reply is, what about Taiwan? Taiwan is a part of China which separated off under the nationalist government after the Civil War. Taiwan does not claim not to be Chinese territory.
In fact – and this is far too little understood in the West because our media does not tell you – the government of Taiwan still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China.
The government of Taiwan supports reunification just as much as the government of China, the only difference being who would be in charge.
The dispute with Taiwan is therefore an unresolved Chinese civil war, not an independent state menaced by China. As a civil war the entire world away from us, it is very hard to understand why we have an interest in supporting one side rather than the other.
Peaceful resolution is of course preferable. But it is not our conflict.
There is no evidence whatsoever that China has any intention of invading anywhere else in the China Seas or the Pacific. Not Singapore, not Japan and least of all Australia. That is almost as fantastic as the ludicrous idea that the UK must be defended from Russian invasion.
If China wanted, it could simply buy 100% of every public listed company in Australia, without even noticing a dent in China’s dollar reserves.
Which of course brings us to the real dispute, which is economic and about soft power. China has massively increased its influence abroad, by trade, investment, loans and manufacture. China is now the dominant economic power, and it can only be a matter of time before the dollar ceases to be the world’s reserve currency.
China has chosen this method of economic expansion and prosperity over territorial acquisition or military control of resources.
That may be to do with Confucian versus Western thought. Or it may just be the government in Beijing is smarter than Western governments. But growing Chinese economic dominance does not appear to me a reversible process in the coming century.
To react to China’s growing economic power by increasing western military power is hopeless. It is harder to think of a more stupid example of lashing out in blind anger. It is a it like peeing on your carpet because the neighbours are too noisy.
Aah, but you ask. What about human rights? What about the Uighurs?
I have a large amount of sympathy. China was an Imperial power in the great age of formal imperialism, and the Uighurs were colonised by China. Unfortunately the Chinese have followed the West’s “War on Terror” playbook in exploiting Islamophobia to clamp down on Uighur culture and autonomy.
I very much hope that this reduces, and that freedom of speech improves in general across China.
But let nobody claim that human rights genuinely has any part to play in who the Western military industrial complex treats as an enemy and who it treats as an ally. I know it does not, because that is the precise issue on which I was sacked as an Ambassador.
The abominable suffering of the children of Yemen and Palestine also cries out against any pretence that Western policy, and above all choice of ally, is human rights based.
China is treated as an enemy because the United States has been forced to contemplate the mortality of its economic dominance.
China is treated as an enemy because that is a chance for the political and capitalist classes to make yet more super profits from the military industrial complex.
But China is not our enemy. Only atavism and xenophobia make it so.
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I have two words to say to anyone in the UK who tries to lecture China or Russia on the subject of invasions…
Chagos Islands.
The Ukrainians will be abandoned with the same haste as the Afghans and all the rest. The humanitarians are already carefully honing their scripts on the Uighurs and Taiwanese.
The UK is essentially an importer. It imports consumer goods from China and imports ideology from the US.
Just because the UK, the US and many other countries have extremely questionable foreign policies does not mean China are deserving of this puff piece. And you only have “sympathy” over those who are extremely concerned with their treatment of the Uighurs? How very dare you make light of this disgraceful treatment of other human beings.
The Chinese authorities hack and steal intellectual property on an insane level. The state authorises the killing of thousands of its own citizens – there are no statistics on how many. They show very little religious tolerance to their own citizens. Western freedoms are non-existent – freedom of speech, freedom of assembly etc. There are many other examples.
There are no good guys and bad guys, don’t kid yourself Mr Murray. You may be irked that much of your (excellent) commentary on what we don’t know about the West isn’t published in the mainstream media but I consider this particular piece extremely lacking in any balance.
Their internal policies seem pretty horrible. Then again, they don’t imprison anywhere near as many of their citizens as the Yanks, either per capita or in actual numbers.
Ever heard of Snowden and his revelations? Seems like the Yanks do a fair bit of spying and hacking themselves.
Talking of religious freedom, the Yanks allow fundamentalist fascist Christian nationalism, they’re not so fond of much else.
The Yanks kill many tens of thousands of their own citizens each year through crazy gun-lobby enacted laws and a lack of health care. But I suppose that doesn’t count. Killing HUNDREDS of thousands of people in other countries doesn’t count either. And never mind about 10 million or so native Americans.
This wasn’t so much a puff-piece for the Chinese as wondering why we should regard them as a massive threat against which we should be arming ourselves – you didn’t seem to address that bit.
A puff piece? How very dare you? Are you some sort of parody…
I think Mr Murray is more aware than most that there are no “good guys”. As he might be pointing out soon, he was concerned about the Uighurs long before you knew they existed (probably – my father worked in Xinjiang for a time, so I know some people were aware of them before they became common anti-China rhetoric on the BBC).
I believe the CCP is literally demonic, but then so is the CIA. We should be asking ourselves if our vociferously anti-China governments are really much different to the CCP, or are they actually keen to replicate the tyranny they see successfully executed on the Chinese populace. Consider what a battering liberty took during the “pandemic”, for example. We need to get our own house in order before we end up in re-education camps ourselves….
It’s actually the CPC, Mr Expert.
Is it? I didn’t know – I don’t type about or discuss Chinese communists very often. I’m not a China expert by any stretch, and wouldn’t claim to be.
What offended you about my response though? You fine with the media and our government demonising China and ignoring the beams in our own eye? You don’t like Mr Murray pointing out the irrationality and hypocrisy of it all? What gives…
Here’s a suggestion Peter. Ask yourself this question:
What is the single most compelling piece of evidence that I have seen concerning China’s “disgraceful treatment of the Uyghurs”?
After a few minutes of honest reflection, you’ll conclude:
The truth of the matter is that I’ve never seen any real pieces of compelling evidence, because I’ve never been to look for any. But I have internalised loads of lurid headlines and howls of outrage…
After that you’re ready for the next stage. Go and read the Grayzone articles on the subject, in particular the ones that eviscerate the “work” of Adrian Zenz.. After that we can have an informed discussion about what the “Uyghur genocide” story is actually all about.
The rest of your post is the perfect embodiment of my definition of the standard Western take on China:
An enormous bag of arrogance, stuffed to the brim with ignorance, and tied at the neck with self-righteous hatred…
thanks david… an informed response which will probably fall on deaf ears, but is not lost on others here… cheers..
At the Grayzone, Max Blumenthal initially admitted that the repression of Uyghurs could be happening. He then regressed to saying he doesn’t believe any of the evidence showing that it is happening, on the basis that we can’t trust people who don’t like the Chinese. He contends that there’s no onus on him to prove it isn’t happening. Dismissive denialism at its best.
Enter the Grayzone: fringe leftists deny the scale of China’s Uyghur oppression, by Caitlin Thompson (Coda, 30 July 2020)
“we can’t trust people who don’t like the Chinese.”
We can’t trust people who lie all the time.
“He then regressed to saying he doesn’t believe any of the evidence showing that it is happening, on the basis that we can’t trust people who don’t like the Chinese.”
Are you saying that there is no evidence that is not produced by Sinophobic organisations? If so, shouldn’t that tell you something?
Blumenthal is perfectly, the burden of proof doesn’t lie with Grayzone. The burden of proof lies with those who advance the thesis, always has been.
One particular interesting thing to consider about the allegations made concerning Xinjiang in 2017-18 is the effect of Covid which hit China in early 2020. If the camps were really there with the density of prisoners being held in terrible conditions as was claimed then the effects of Covid would have been massive. If we had reliable reports from unbiased sources (some of which were surveillance satellites in space) in 2018 then we should have them in 2019, 2020, 2021 etc.
Where are those reports now ?
Also the “leaked documents” should have been reported as “allegedly/purportedly leaked documents” The actual source of those documents, who translated them, who authenticated them and the originals have never been made public. We can only surmise what other information is being kept from public view.
However I think that it’s reasonable to surmise that as interested parties wish to make their case as strong as possible that secret information does not support their case.
“…self-righteous [, racist] hatred.”
This would be my take on US politics since the US Constitution restricted rights to rich white males.
All the moral outrage written in Langley, VA.
Who recruits Uighurs to do their heart-eating, head-chopping , raping and slaving dirty work?
Do they though? The censorship bit is true and verifiable, the rest though? You should maybe consider your sources before spouting off because historically speaking, the daily mail and politicians are two extremely unreliable places to get your information from.
What I do know is that the the CPC has over 20 million members – that is a far cry from an autocracy.
I do know that whilst in theory we have a democracy in practice we have a two party state in which both parties are ideologically aligned on essentially everything except the dressing and that this ideology is not to the benefit of 99% of the population.
I do know that whilst China has only one party, it is a party that has shown willingness time and time again to realign to the wishes of its population – how many western countries can claim the same thing?
I do know that the Party voted in Xi and that the people who voted him in were in turn voted in trickling down to the population and that anyone can join the party – that is called a meritocracy by the way.
I also know that no one voted in Rishi Sunak and he is there purely through his vast personal wealth.
Watching Blinken last night on Al Jazeera, his reaction to the news that China was taking a lead on peace negotiations over Ukraine was almost comical. He was clearly horrified, and was stuttering about how China were communists! They were long-standing friends of Russia! They are neighbours of Russia!
The very idea that they could provide some honest negotiations was so blisteringly contemptible, it was shocking to Blinken that he was even required to set it out.
Never mind the fact that China had arranged peace agreements between the Saudis and Iran just last week – a feat the Yanks could never come anywhere near pulling off, because nobody trusts them, everyone knows they are the furthest thing from an honest broker, and that all their talk of peace, freedom, democracy, puppies and rainbows is nothing but cynical horseshit.
China has suddenly boosted their worldwide image as a major diplomatic force, and the Yanks are understandably terrified.
It’s funny in two ways
1) Western propaganda has being saying for decades the Russians and Chinese are inalienable enemies – who can’t get along, forgetting that plenty of other much more deadly enemy countries manage to get along these days.
2) China and the Russia Federation get along much better now compared to China and the Soviet Union, when they were both claiming to be a vanguard of Communism.
The Sino-Soviet rift is one of those historical tragedies that their occurrence altered the course of history as it prevented the world wide spread of communism and played into the hands of the US. It is this fear of friendship between these two neighbours and the loss of economic and military hegemony as a result that is driving the hatred against those two nations.
The economic situation has changed since the days of the USSR. China has progressed from a backwater to being the workshop of the world with a massive demand for resources. Russia remains a treasure trove of those and can adopt the same comfortable if second fiddle relationship with China that Canada has with the USA. The West’s problem is that it’s lost the trust of both by blatantly rewriting the rules whenever it suits us, eg over Huawei where there is absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing, and over those Minsk Agreements. So Russia and China have decided there’s no point trying to play the games of 13% of the world’s population.
WOW looking forward to comments!
Two funerals this weekend and many comments, I will not keep up?
The sooner the American empire & its vassals fall, including us, the better for the rest of the world. Uncertain & foreboding times ahead. The governments are the real enemy of the ordinary Joe Bloggs, working man
Excellent article Mr Murray, “But growing Chinese economic dominance does not appear to me a reversible process in the coming century” That is correct, unfortunately the West has not received the memo, hence the pivot to the East by the UK/US with the intention of ‘containing’ China and sabotaging its huge belt and road initiative which will benefit very many countries en route to Europe and Africa. All the West have left are illegal sanctions which the global south i.e. 85% of the world can see as another form of western imperialism, designed to steal their resources, and as Mr Murray rightly says, offers of expensive military equipment enriching the MIC in order to put down internal or external enemies, if by chance any particular country have no such enemies, the US can soon fix that.
The UK has no choice – it is effectiveIy governed from the US now
“Which of course brings us to the real dispute, which is economic and about soft power. China has massively increased its influence abroad, by trade, investment, loans and manufacture. China is now the dominant economic power, and it can only be a matter of time before the dollar ceases to be the world’s reserve currency.”
Why do they need to invade a country, US / UK style, when they have it at their economic mercy? Belt+Road isn’t some friendly trade agreement, it’s about locking raw materials suppliers into long-term contracts, it’s about ‘investing to help countries develop their infrastructure’ whilst locking their governments into long-term debt repayments (e.g. the railway that China built in Kenya); it’s about ‘trade benefits’ that just happens to be dual-use for their military (e.g. Hambantota International Port). The method might be different but the desired ending is not: Beijing wants economically useful client states and wants the states that are currently others’ clients to be theirs.
Have you ever heard of IMF and World Bank ? What kind of Loans were they providing and at what conditions?
Few days ago Pakistan and today Sri Lanka was “saved ” by IMF & WB on the condition of ………………………..
The deals between China and other states are mutually beneficial unlike the enslavement and menace when countries do business with the US.
“Graham
“it’s about ‘investing to help countries develop their infrastructure’ whilst locking their governments into long-term debt”
Are you saying that Western Financial Institutions are lending in a good faith (humanitarian reasons)?
What difference does it make if you are in debt to China or USA?
Then you say
“Beijing wants economically useful client states and wants the states that are currently others’ clients to be theirs.”
If China terms are better what is wrong with choosing China over USA for a country ?
I cannot vouch for everything on this map but as Craig points out: Taiwan also have territorial claims, but western msm never tell you about that:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Republic_of_China_%28Taiwan%29_Territorial_Claims.jpg
Same with the island claims. You only hear China have such claims, you never hear that western backed asian states have as many claims themselves…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea
Western leaders must be seen as absolute crazies in the rest of the world. While they have ignited a war in europe they got bored and try to agonize China at the same time. It is like an arson that goes around starting fires all over the place.
I do not understand why nations like Taiwan let a foreign power like the US in and pit chinese people against each other! It is treasonous behavior!
Same with Korea, why on earth do not South Korea quit their military aggressive relationship with the US, grow up and actually make peace with their northern brothers and sisters?
IIRC, Taiwan is also influenced by Japan. Since they’ve left behind a significant population after WW2, I wouldn’t be surprised that they’re helping the US in manipulating Taiwan. How much influence Japan still have over the island is questionable as the US tend to take over everything that they’re involved in. And then there’s the sore losers of China’s civil war who would rather work for a foreign power while masquerading as a leader of their own people.
The ROC on Taiwan maintains the fiction that it is the government of China for one reason only – if they drop it the PRC will take that as a declaration of independence and invade. There is no intent to act on this and hasn’t been for a very long time. This is pretty basic stuff.
“The ROC on Taiwan maintains the fiction that it is the government of China for one reason only – if they drop it the PRC will take that as a declaration of independence and invade. ”
and you know this how?
Military power diminishes with distance. The US found this with Vietnam. To contemplate conflict in the area near to China is ‘not sensible’! To say the least!
In the same way, China would find it difficult to project power around the world. They have already made progress with the Belt and Road to secure supplies. How far they plan remote control / influence of African and Asian or even South American states through finance and investment is not yet clear. They might be tempted to follow our example.
Their chances of hegemonic success if they do, depends on how far those nations are alienated by Western financial exploitation. But the West is two entities – the US and Europe, and polices change with elections. China’s power is more centralised and, arguably, has more longer term policies. The answer partly lies with us.
We can’t control the Chinese but we can have a better future by turning our attention to our own policies.
However, for an island nation Australia with a small population, nuclear submarines are probably a better bet than aircraft carriers. It is worth noting that Japan and India are also increasing their naval forces.
There is a little known fact in the western-world about the Xinjiang province of China which the Uighur people live in, that is that the militant group (ETIM) which formed during the uprising in Xinjiang have been directly involved in over 200 terrorist attacks and bombings in the region killing dozens of civilians and that they are sponsored and backed by the CIA’s National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a group which is directly associated with countless colour-revolutions around the world, where-ever the name NED appears you can be assured that attempts to overthrow democratically elected governments is not far behind, one of their most recent examples of NED’s work being the coup d’état in Pakistan by successfully removing their democratically elected leader after he asserted Pakistan’s sovereignty by refusing to bend to the will of US military & hegemonic demands.
The East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) and western government-connected groups attempts to disassociate ETIM from the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP), were blown wide open when in the leader of ETIM himself replied in a televised interview that they are one and the same group, both names belong to their group.
In Novermber 2020 the United States quietly removed ETIM from their list of recognised terrorist groups, coincidentally ETIM also have links to al-Qaeda (Afghanistan and China share a border on the south-western edge of Xinjian via the Wakhan Corridor). al-Qaeda of course being another CIA pet-project which gave birth to ISIS, a group which we all know has caused havoc and countless civilian murders throughout the Middle-East and Northern Africa including the ongoing human-slave markets and the barbaric slaughter of native Libyan tribes for simply having the wrong colour of skin, it is a group which the United States still fund & back by-proxy in Eastern Syria, murdering innocent civilians in the most barbaric ways imaginable while pillaging the nations oil and gas reserves by siphoning it away via almost daily convoys made up of dozens of tanker trucks under US military escort out of the country through Iraq.
What I have written above is not new news, you can easily research it yourselves (avoid wikipedia as a source, it is frequently doctored by faceless-editors to fit western narratives), but you will not find it reported by any western MSM because western media corporations are government shills and will never report inconvenient truths about their own country and government’s actions on foreign shores to their own people, just like how as of today the UKGov is now going to supply Ukraine with depleted-Uranium tank shells, the UK-state-mouthpiece the BBC makes no mention of it on their website today, yet it is being widely reported on by media organisations outside of the reach of western governments, most of whom the UKGov banned from being broadcast & blocked the websites of.
Depleted-Uranium shells should be considered as both a biological weapon as well as a nuclear weapon as they are in effect a “dirty-bomb”, in addition to their destructive elements upon hitting a target they disperse radioactive isotopes when they expode into pieces of shrapnel upon arrival, a feature which is built into the design of these munitions. They were widely used during both of the US/UK-initiated Gulf wars and are documented as directly being the cause of cancers in otherwise healthy human beings, birth defects in children and the premature deaths of people who live in the areas they were fired at due to the radioactive isotopes leaching into and poisoning the surrounding environment including water supplies.
Indeed.
Brian Bertelic explains the whole US backing ETIM story today on his The New Atlas you tube video.
The Hidden Proxy War Washington Wages against China, with Brian Berletic (The New Atlas, 21 Mar 2023) – YouTube, 18m 26s
Unusually, and with no explanation, the US dropped the ETIM from their list of terror organisations not long ago.
According to Redacted DU is actually already being used in Ukraine.
Redacted: BREAKING! US is sending depleted uranium weapons to Ukraine, with Clayton Morris (14 Feb 2023) – YouTube, 14m 41s
Uranium Weapons Residues in UK Air Samples Have Been Measured Since the Ukraine War, Why is Google Suppressing the Evidence? by Chris Busby (Counterpunch, 16 March 2023)
> Depleted-Uranium shells should be considered as both a biological weapon as well as a nuclear weapon as they are in effect a “dirty-bomb”, in addition to their destructive elements upon hitting a target they disperse radioactive isotopes when they expode into pieces of shrapnel upon arrival, a feature which is built into the design of these munitions.
That is a highly tendentious remark.
They are far from being a “dirty bomb”: depleted uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium, and probably only harms the survivors of tanks struck by these shells.
They don’t explode; these shells are made of solid metal. I believe they actually crumble to dust on impact; there is no shrapnel. The shells are penetrators; they’re designed to defeat modern armour through kinetic impact.
I’m not suggesting, by the way, that I’m keen to inhale some depleted uranium dust. Titanium would make a better penetrator (it’s denser and harder than uranium, and isn’t even slightly radioactive), but it’s a scarce strategic metal, whereas depleted uranium is inexpensive.
Re: ‘Titanium would make a better penetrator (it’s denser and harder than uranium’
Density of titanium at 25 degrees Celsius: 4.5 grams per cubic centimetre
Density of uranium at 25 degrees Celsius: 19.1 grams per cubic centimetre
(Source: Greenwood & Earnshaw, Chemistry of the Elements, 1st edition with corrections, 1995)
From Wiki:
‘Uranium is a silvery white, weakly radioactive metal. It has a Mohs hardness of 6, sufficient to scratch glass and approximately equal to that of titanium’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Characteristics
(Staying with the science, Jimmeh, I probably should get back to you about the effects of MDMA on dopaminergenic neurons, but that can wait for another time).
If density and hardness are what counts, why not use tungsten at a density of 19.24g/cm and a Mohs hardness of 7.5? I suspect there is another reason to use uranium.
Thanks for your reply Bayard. It’s a good question. You should find the answer here:
https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/depleted-uranium/penetrators.html#:~:text=Unlike%20tungsten%2C%20uranium%20is%20pyrophoric,portions%20of%20the%20projectile's%20surface.
I’m not suggesting, by the way, that I’m keen to inhale some depleted uranium dust ”
But you are suggesting that for the people around the world inhaling depleting Uranium dust is not a problem!
Do we hear about possible negative results ?
All is good according to you, nothing to worry about.
Uranium ‘ rock’ you can touch is as dangerous as Uranium dust you inhale.
I can not find a good analogy so I go with extreme one.
We all love water and we need it for our survival. Waterboarding must be fun.
I hate low pressure showers dripping
I held 100 or 200 g(rams) of salt in my hands and nothing happened to me (I swear).
Allegedly if I eat much less than that amount I would be dead.
“Allegedly if I eat much less than that amount I would be dead.”
I very much doubt you could eat that amount without vomiting it all up.
Bayard
I am not sure what you are trying to say but for argument sake you claim that I couldn’t be killed by drinking 1L of whisky quickly in one go cos I will vomit it all up.
No one drinks bottle of spirits in one go (downing) and people still end up in hospital. Are you sure that the body will reject (vomit) more than absorb from downing 1L of spirit or a spoon or two of SALT.
“I am not sure what you are trying to say but for argument sake you claim that I couldn’t be killed by drinking 1L of whisky quickly in one go cos I will vomit it all up.”
I don’t. Drinking is not the same as eating.
“depleted uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium,”
so still radioactive, though, and so still a problem. The point to make would have been “depleted uranium is no longer radioactive”, if that really is the case, but I very much suspect that it is not.
DU rounds are designed to burst into high temperature flames upon impact and penetration of armour. This design guarantees that the DIU will be atomized to a fine powder. The alpha radiation from DU is lethal as this fine powder is easily inhaled and ingested causing nasty cancers. This catastrophe is minor compared to the long term health effects of DU as a heavy metal. Like Lead Mercury, Cadmium, Gold, and others Uranium accumulates in the body causing extensive organ damage, particularly to the kidneys.
the BBC did mention the depleted uranium shells, on the 21st March. The biological hazard seems real but I don’t know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65032671
“(avoid [W]ikipedia as a source, it is frequently doctored by faceless-editors to fit western narratives)”
In matters like these it is best to treat Wikipedia as a US NGO. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_14 this instead. ;O)
Very Well Said Craig.
You should see the Vile Propaganda Blitz the Australian Public are Being Subject to –
‘ The mass media in Australia have been churning out brazen propaganda pieces to manufacture consent for war with China, and what’s interesting is that they’re basically admitting to doing this deliberately.
Caitlin Johnson –
https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/australian-media-are-outright-telling?
“The dispute with Taiwan is therefore an unresolved Chinese civil war, not an independent state menaced by China. As a civil war the entire world away from us, it is very hard to understand why we have an interest in supporting one side rather than the other.”
Essentially the precise opposite of the stance you take on Scottish independence. Care to elucidate the reasoning behind that apparent contradiction ?
Is Taiwan Currently Being Raped of all it’s Resources…and abused of Human rights By China… NO.
But Scotland is.
By Westminster
Let me help you:
Taiwan is a province of China and has been for hundreds of years. It has never in its entire history been an independent nation. Scotland has been a nation for centuries, and in terms of currently-delineated borders (fixed in 1482 when England annexed Berwick) it is actually the oldest country in the world.
@ David W Ferguson and Elucidate :
If you are saying that the difference between the validity of the claims to independence of Scotland and Taiwan is “history” then I think you are missing the point, rather. ISTM, and I claim it as Socialist doctrine, the claim to independence of a people is that people’s desire for independence, and that has been Craig Murray’s position on the issue too. So my question stands :
“Essentially the precise opposite of the stance you take on Scottish independence. Care to elucidate the reasoning behind that apparent contradiction ?”
Please define, in this context, the “people”. So far, for example, people born and raised in Scotland but since become resident outside Scotland have had no vote in the putative independence process.
@ Mr. Jonson- Scotland is a country in a political union with another country. Taiwan is not. Which part don’t you understand? I think Craig is anyway not advocating either way for what Taiwan should or should not do to resolve its situation. So you’re trying to make an argument where there isn’t one. It seems we should not beat the war drums over it and that is the main point. I mean, for example, if Russia or China advocated making naval exercises in the North Sea to ‘help’ Scotland you’d probably be a tad miffed to say the least. The double standards and warmongering need to stop, that is the point I think he is making.
@ MrJonson – As people are trying to tell you, Scotland is a very old country presently in a mutual union with another country. Taiwan is in a different position. Perhaps you want it put back under Japanese rule? I anyway think what Craig is trying to tell you is that we should stop behaving like pathetic little imperialist has-beens, taking sides and stirring things up in distant potential conflicts. Actually this is probably one of many reasons why Scotland wants to leave its union.
When a party is weaker it is better to appear relatively passive. The weaker party with intelligent long term vision and good organisation will make many small adjustments to gain momentum and preponderance. All things reverse in time and if the weaker hold their nerve and continue to make many micro gains then a point is eventually reached when they become the stronger. As they proceed along that path they will make tentative explorative steps trying out confidence, but generally without overstepping the mark and without being drawn into unnecessary conflict. When they are confidently the stronger party then they will behave like it. To think otherwise is naive. There are no absolute good and bad guys. People need consciences. Countries need international structures. A Top Dog who wants to remain as Top Dog should try their utmost to retain their position without resorting to excessive and or obvious use of force, or bullying or international illegality. They should support international structures as objectively as they can (so that any bias is exceptionally subtle). As the the weaker becomes stronger and the stronger becomes weaker a dangerous gap opens up. We live in a global community but even in the first world war people all over the world knew the ebb and flow and swapped sides accordingly. As in banking so in international relations. Confidence and perception is everything and the support of allies can vanish like deposits in a bank.
Nice To See you Back
Cheers
I read this as an educated guess of what China is up to, and I agree. They are playing the long game, with a certain degree of national cooperation. Both things are unimaginable in US politics, which is why China will succeed the US as the world’s dominant superpower. And then, either in connection with that or just because governments (democratic or not) naturally move in such a direction, they will become as dangerous to the populations of other countries as the US are now.
Globally speaking, this won’t be much better or much worse than the current situation, although of course some countries will be winners and some will be losers. Expecting to be on the losing side, and therefore fighting against the inevitable, is likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, the US, in its usual short-sightedness, is hard at work trying to force Russia and China into an alliance, which might even end up including Turkey. Living in Berlin, I am NOT happy about the prospect of nuclear war in Europe, which is not an unlikely result at all.
There is little reason to suppose China would endanger Germany and treat it with the same level of contempt as the Americans have in the last six months. Although looking at Germans’ passive acceptance Beijing may conclude that is how they want and deserve to be treated.
I was assuming an overt military alliance between China and Russia. With the current German government brown-nosing the US while they are out for war against Russia, Berlin seems to be one of the cities most likely to be hit by Russian nuclear missiles, possibly in retaliation for a nuclear strike on Russia or China. Poland is even worse in this respect, but a nuclear explosion there would likely produce severe fallout also in some of the most densely populated parts of Russia. Other offenders are protected by greater distance. Germany is probably in the sweet spot for a Russian nuclear attack in this respect.
All true but I’d have thought the current illegal occupation of Syria by USA to facilitate the theft of its resources through a string of military bases would have been worth a mention in your litany of American war crimes. Many commentators also compare American diplomacy unfavourably to that of Russia and China. I’m sure the Arab nations have taken heed of Russian and Chinese actions and the Saudis have concluded they need to alter their allegiances. At the moment the Americans look like they are being left for dead and UK may soon be sharing the pain directly if we are so foolish as to supply Zelensky with depleted Uranium shells.
phil …
To be fair to Craig…There is Far too much going on to mention everything..
And Regards US For about a year now, stealing Syrian oil.. There is also evidence I have seen of US stealing Tents.. that China sent as Humanitarian Aid to Syrian Earthquake survivors.. Sick as Fk
Then Israel were Bombing said Earthquake Survivors… Where’s the Global outrage ?
Mostly great – sorry Craig has fallen for the Ujghur hoax. There is no Ujghur story, just one made up by anti-communist idiot Adrian Zenz and boosted by the BBC to start with.
One clue is that holidays in Xinjiang are still freely available to Westerners. Another was the 1 million Ujghur prisoners story the BBC started with (you’ll have noted it is no longer claimed by anyone). Just following the BBC website story took you to promises of lots of satellite confirmations of many prisons, but actually lead to long appendices with interviews and more promises but No second prison site. 1 million prisoners implies 300-400 prisons – they confirmed one. Ujghur families – they interviewed one family member only – and that was in Turkey!!!! (no doubt a relative of one of the 5-10k Ujghur terrorists that fight alongside ISIS in Syria).
Recall the Ujghurs cutting cotton? Turns out all cotton in Xinjiang has long been cut mechanically.
Claims now are much vaguer – Ujghurs packed off to prisons all around China – a story impossible to disprove or prove, which is much more convenient.
Chinese racism means that a powerful China will do to the West what the West did in Asia in the 19th century. Do you really want to suffer that?
In C19 UK and US privateers sold opium to China. Now China sells Fentynyl to US.
Well observed, Fwl. These days though, the Chinese mainly tend to sell precursor chemicals to the Mexican cartels, who then turn them into fentanyl and smuggle it across the US border. They also do a similar thing with the precursor chemicals for methamphetamine, which is now on sale in southern California for as low as $3000 a kilo.
” These days though, the Chinese mainly tend to sell precursor chemicals to the Mexican cartels, who then turn them into fentanyl and smuggle it across the US border.”
Thus depriving the CIA of heroin income.
Ok – so keeping some distance as did the E.I.C.
Reading these great books will confirm your opinion of CIA drug trafficking:
David Webb, “Dark Alliance” ,and, Alfred McCoy, “The Politics of Heroin”.
Deep state genesis is covered by Col Fletcher Prouty, who was the first commander of JSOG (Joint Special Operations Command). He was there when Green Berets and Navy SEALS were born. Col Prouty was also Eisenhower’s and JFK’s liaison with the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If the CIA needed military assets they had to go through Col Prouty. His book, “The Secret Team”, is a classic examination of CIA corruption of US governmental apparatus. The day the mass market edition went on sale, someone went to the publisher an bought all 10,000 copies of this book. The book promptly went out-of-print for decades. Secret operatives then went into every library they could and removed the hard cover copies, and also removing ALL card catalogue copies, including the seminal entry in the master card catalogue. They even did this to the Library of Congress. to literally disappear the book.
Except that this has not happened in living memory whilst Western racism has been fully evidenced for the last few centuries. Is our racism better than theirs? Exceptionalism followed by projection.
“Chinese racism means that a powerful China will do to the West what the West did in Asia in the 19th century.”
What grounds have you or making that statement? To do to the West what the West did to Asia in the C19th they would have to be racist and have an expansionist imperial policy. I don’t see much evidence of the latter.
@ Craig,
“I cannot readily think of any example in history, of a state which achieved the level of economic dominance China has now achieved, that did not seek to use its economic muscle to finance military acquisition of territory to increase its economic resources”
That is a worthwhile quote I can praise from your article. I would ask you to consider the flip side to that observation.
Put as precisely as I can it comes to this; History shows that for every high achieving winning state, there is a low achieving losing state. Old orders shrink and decease, new orders grow and rule. Same as it ever was…_
Did China not annexe Nepal in the not-too-distant past?
Not picking fights, just wondering.
Dereck
Well Not all of Nepal ..But I think the Main Point is that Nepal is on China’s Boarder..Same with Tibet… But the US invades Lands..rapes resources of Lands On the other side of the Globe.. That’s My Take
Peace to ya
D: “Did China not annexe Nepal in the not-too-distant past? “
Indeed,.and it would be shameless “whataboutary” to point out that the Yanks did a bit of annexing of their own, most notably in “New Mexico”, a considerable part of California, and most of Texas. Not to mention the USA in its entirety, when one gets right down to it.
Indeed Glen … I have Native American Friends … they came to meet me in Glasgow..
Great to see you still around, Brian … hope you are keeping well.
Sad to say, but I have finally lost faith in Britain and its people. Hard to maintain hope for a country that insists on putting its governance in the hands of a bunch of corrupt, useless toffs who themselves are in the service of a combination of sociopathic billionaires, and imperialist warmongers across the Atlantic. ‘Leaders’ that all the while, despite waving their pathetic little flags, have nothing but complete contempt for the average person that actually works for a living.
I Miss Squonk.. And Ben And Clark Stay Wise and Safe Glen,,, X
“But they are no more controversial than a great many other UNCLOS claims, for example the UK’s behaviour over Rockall.”
or – a more significant example – Australia’s behaviour over the seabed between Australia and East Timor
They, the West, never learn. We now appear to be in the latter stages of feeding the western governments with enough rope to hang themselves. Russia has helped build the gallows and China will provide the final drop. Good riddance !
Prescient? From 1978:
https://progrography.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/giveemenoughrope.jpg
About time someone realizes that China’s civil war has yet to be resolved. I always get that Deer-in-the-Headlights look whenever I mention this fact. IIRC, those territorial disputes over the South China Sea (SCS) was registered by the displaced government (now hiding in Taiwan) which the mainland has taken over. I hope no one is surprised on who “won” the civil war. Beijing just needs to finalize it.
As for China’s overseas military bases, I’m only aware of one and it’s in Djibouti. Unless you’re counting the bases on those built up islands in the SCS. Not sure what to say about the outpost in Tajikistan according to Washington Post as both governments stated nothing about it.
I was nodding in agreement all the way down, then we got to the Uyghurs. Oh dear! How sad to see the writer taken in by the bunkum which mainly originates from the charlatan Zenz, and has been amplified by NED shills such as ASPI and which has been fully debunked numerous times. My heartfelt thanks to Anonymoose particularly for giving the full ETIM background, their terrorism has now been successfully dealt with, and to supporting comment from Michael Droy, who have saved me a great deal of time this morning. Tales of forced labour similarly have been denied by western companies operating here. The Chinese fully understand the motives behind the lies and it should be obvious from where they originate.
As no evidence was produced to support the charges of genocide, the accusation turned to “cultural genocide”, whatever that is. As one who lives in and has extensively travelled throughout China over 16 years I can tell you that China recognises and celebrates everywhere its 55 ethnic minorities, the shaoshu minzu, of which the Uyghurs are one. You can read more about them all here.
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/nationality/56list.htm
Oh and by the way, whoever you were, it’s the CPC, not the CCP. When I see CCP I know it’s time to stop reading.
Wow, what is it with you people? Why so uptight about the “official” abbreviation?
Do share some pictures of your travels in Xinjiang – I’d love to compare them to the photos my parents took over a decade ago.
As someone who has lived in China (albeit the Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong) for the past 24 years I feel I should correct some misperceptions here.
1) “Taiwan does not claim not to be Chinese territory”
This is true. But what needs to be noted is that Emperor Xi has made it explicitly clear that were Taiwan to do otherwise (the only alternative being to claim to be an independant country) then it would be invaded and annexed immediately by the ludicrously named People’s Liberation Army. What else do you suggest they do in the face of such a threat? It seems abundantly clear that a large majority of the Taiwanese people would prefer to be an independent country were that to be realistically achievable (a far greater majority than is ever likely to be achieved in Scotland, for example).
2) “the government of Taiwan still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China”
No – the last pretence of that was abandoned in 2005 when the National Assembly in Taipei (which had constituencies for the whole of mainland China as well as Taiwan) was abolished. The current government in Taipei claims only to represent the people of Taiwan.
3) “China has constructed some military bases by artificially extending small islands. That is perfectly legal behaviour. The territory is Chinese.”
No – the Permanent Court of Arbitration in July 2016 ruled, inter alia, that:
“China has, through its construction of installations and artificial islands at Mischief Reef without the authorisation of the Philippines, breached Articles 60 and 80 of the Convention with respect to the Philippines’ sovereign rights in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf [and], as a low-tide elevation, Mischief Reef is not capable of appropriation.”
I don’t see how you could justify being so vocal against the UK/US militarisation of the Chagos Islands, but to support the Chinese militarisation of Mischief Reef, both of which have been deemed contrary to international law by the relevant bodies. It is absurd to claim that every rock, reef and shoal in the South China Sea that is claimed by China (as one of several claimants in most cases) is, ipso facto, Chinese territory.
As someone who has resided in Taiwan for 15 years, I welcome these corrections to Craig’s assertions re Taiwan’s status.
Though I don’t disagree with your central contention, China is unquestionably growing more assertive, stealing territory from benign and peaceful Bhutan and attempting the same with less success with India, organising cyber attacks against its rivals and swelling its nuclear arsenal. And the threats to Taiwan and open planning to invade are fundamentally assertive – whatever the historical context.
time the good guys started supplying Bhutan and Taiwan with depleted uranium.
“The government of Taiwan supports reunification just as much as the government of China, the only difference being who would be in charge.”
I reside in Taiwan, follow its politics, and neither of the two main parties support reunification. By all means provide evidence to support your claim, I’ll wait.
Also re the Taiwan claim to China (and part of now Mongolia) this is a historical artefact that dates to the KMT government-in-exile and no longer represents the position of either the KMT today or the ruling opposition party.
I’m afraid you are gravely misinformed re Taiwan’s status and history, as you do not usually deliberately make false claims of this sort.
Could you provide a source for your claim that Taiwan do not claim to be and or seek the rightful owner/ruler of all mainland China?
Clearly it is impossible to prove the absence of something. The onus is on those who claim that Taiwan wishes to be the ruler of mainland China to provide evidence to support that assertion.
Paul
I have not claimed anything it was Pinhut that claimed X and I want to see a source for that.
The link you provide just say that Tsai reject a unification under/with the current ruler of mainland China.
What? It doesn’t say anything of the sort. It says:
“Tsai [the Taiwanese President] opposes unification but has never said that she would formally declare Taiwan’s independence, which would provoke Beijing.
“We don’t have a need to declare ourselves an independent state,” Tsai told the BBC. “We are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan.””
and quotes her as saying
“We have a separate identity and we’re a country of our own.”
Paul
It does not seems to be that clear cut:
“From the beginning, both the PRC and ROC claimed that Taiwan was part of “their” China. Despite never having governed Taiwan, the PRC maintains the same “one China” principle today. For many decades, the ROC also claimed all of China, despite having lost control of the mainland in 1949 and being expelled from the UN in 1971.
Since the 1990s, Taiwanese leaders have pragmatically accepted that mainland China is governed by the PRC, but Taiwan’s Constitution still formally claims all of China. Taiwan has also increasingly seen itself as a de facto independent country, separate from the mainland.”
https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-complex-question-of-taiwanese-independence-188584
“Clearly it is impossible to prove the absence of something.”
If you look everywhere a thing could possibly be and you can’t find it then you have proved its absence. To do that you have to prove that you have a complete list of all the places it could possibly be.
But here is a fairly recent statement of Taiwan’s position by the current president, as reported by The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence
From the Guardian article, “We don’t have a need to declare ourselves an independent state,” Tsai told the BBC. “We are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan.”,
but, from a previous comment of yours
“But what needs to be noted is that Emperor Xi has made it explicitly clear that were Taiwan to do otherwise (the only alternative being to claim to be an independant country) then it would be invaded and annexed immediately by the ludicrously named People’s Liberation Army. ”
So Ms Tsai is either very brave or very foolish in pressing the big red button.
I think Ms Tsai reflects the views of the electorate who elected her to the presidency to the greatest extent possible without triggering an invasion. (Those free and fair elections being a concept totally alien and unacceptable to the CPC.) A comment to the BBC seems to be just on the safe side of that line. A formal legal or constitutional statement would not. It’s a very delicate balance.
the Chinese view Britain as the country with the least moral legitimacy on the planet, less even than the US. An incorrigible pirate nation.
That is why the UK and specifically prior to the economic entrapment & trade blockading of Scotland by England and the forcing of Scotland into a political union in 1707 by methods of deceit and bribery creating the UK union, England’s monarchy & government were referred to as Perfidious Albion in records dating as far back as the 13th century.
they’re seen as a lot worse than perfidious by the Chinese. you almost couldn’t make up what the British did to the Chinese. yet that gives them no pause in morally scolding and threatening China. none whatsoever.
As Craig hints China has been clever in expanding its influence by exploiting soft power over military might. In the UK Chinese interests amount to about £150 billion including the part or total ownership of Hinckley Point C, Heathrow Airport, Lotus, MG, several independent schools and football clubs, Grangemouth Refinery, HSBC etc etc. Many of these assets are owned through offshore companies so like Amazon they pay little or no tax and £1 billion in dividends leaves the country every year.
China still has capital punishment and executes 2,000 to 6,000 people every year, anyone who displeases the Communist Party runs the risk of bing disappeared and despite what some around here might’ve read on their favourite conspiracy websites over one million Uyghurs have been detained without trial in ‘re-education’ camps and subjected to forced labour, sterilisation and separation. Craig makes a rather sad attempt to blame this on western influence but the CCP never needed to look to the west for inspiration during the Cultural Revolution (up to 20 million dead) or the suppression of dissent around Tiananmen Square. No doubt some campists will be along shortly to deny that either event happened.
As far as Taiwan not being our war the inhabitants have the right to self-determination which ought to be protected. On a more practical level 65% of the world’s microchips are made in Taiwan, 92% of the most advanced types. Possession of the factories would give China an even greater stranglehold on the world economy than they have now; if, as I think is more likely, the factories are damaged or destroyed the consequences could be even worse.
Dimensional Fund Advisors is the top shareholder of HSBC Holdings PLC. The firm held more than 10.1 million shares of the financial services company as of Sept. 29, 2022. This represents 0.25% of HSBC’s outstanding shares. Jane Street Group and Morgan Stanley round out the top three largest institutional shareholders of HSBC. China doesn’t own much then. MG is not British, it’s a Chinese company based in Nanjing, willingly sold off for a song back in 2005 or so. Heathrow Airport plc was bought in 2006 by a consortium led by Ferrovial, a Spanish firm specialising in the design, construction, financing, operation and maintenance of transport, urban and services infrastructure. The China Investment Corporation owns 10%. Quite a stranglehold that China has then. Need I continue? Your grasp of reality is quite tenuous, but then you did write CCP….
I think your information might be a little out of date. Chinese interests own about 9% of HSBC and 11% of Heathrow. See where this is going? MG was a British company founded in the 1920s. In 2005 the rights to the name and other assets were sold to Nanjing Auto Group for a knockdown £53 million.
“No doubt some campists will be along shortly to deny that either event happened”
How have you got the front to describe anybody else as a campist? All you do is advance the talking points of the greatest warmongers on the planet. No thinking person could accept the idea China is a greater threat to world peace than the USA and its sidekicks. The only people punting it are campists and propagandists. China is seeking to bring an end to conflict far from its borders, in the middle East and Eastern Europe, and establish a peaceful world. What are our rulers doing?
“despite what some around here might’ve read on their favourite conspiracy websites over one million Uyghurs have been detained without trial in ‘re-education’ camps and subjected to forced labour, sterilisation and separation”
Says someone.
“suppression of dissent around Tiananmen Square.”
In which western backed people murdered unarmed PLA members.
“UK Chinese interests amount to about £150 billion including the part or total ownership of Hinckley Point C,”
AFAIR, the reason the Chinese own so much of Hinkley C is that no other bugger could be persuaded to put up the money.
“Many of these assets are owned through offshore companies so like Amazon they pay little or no tax and £1 billion in dividends leaves the country every year.”
Yeah, that’s what happens when you sell all your assets to foreigners, something the Tories seem very keen to continue doing.
The famous guy stopping the tanks is the opposite. The tanks were going OUT from the Squire and the Guy wanted the tanks to go back.
Why the Taiwanese and Kosovo etc. have the right to self determination but not Donbas or Catalonia or Scotland or the Basque countries?
Hypocrisy or the double standards ?