Fascism in the West to Enable Genocide in Palestine 1249


The UK and the US are both sending military assistance to Israel to commit a calculated and deliberate act of genocide, which is already underway.

Over 500 children have been killed in Gaza in the last week and over 2,000 maimed, many with life changing injuries. Nobody can claim they do not know what is already happening or what is about to unfold. The cutting off of food and water to Gaza is a major international crime, which the western proponents of the “rules based order” universally refuse to condemn.

In both the UK and the US there can be no more stark illustration of the lack of any kind of meaningful democracy, than the fact that there is no major political party that opposes the genocide – despite massive public opposition.

The bought and paid for media and political class in the west are extremely nervous, throughout the western world. Now they have come to the final genocide for which zionism has always aimed, they face a good deal of popular resistance.

Throughout Europe there is a massive gap between the zionist unanimity of the politicians and the much greater understanding of the Palestinian situation among the general public. Tellingly the response by the zionist political class has been a wave of outright fascist suppression.

In France, Macron has made all pro-Palestinian demonstrations illegal, but as so often the French people are not standing for that kind of authoritarianism.

In the UK, the police have adopted the cowardly tactic of arresting a couple of individuals, one in Brighton and one in Manchester, for pro-Palestinian demonstration. Under Tony Blair’s notorious draconian “anti-terror” legislation, they could face up to 14 years in prison.

The young man in Manchester was arrested on the precise site of the famous “Peterloo massacre”, which generations of British people were taught at school was a terrible crime in breach of the rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Let the irony of that set in.

You can go out in the streets of the UK with an Israeli flag and yell that you want every Palestinian to be cleansed from Gaza. That is not illegal. If you say the Palestinians have a right to resist their genocide, that is illegal.

That appears to be a genuine analysis of the law in the UK, France and many other western countries.

That is intended to terrify all of us. It will not work.

The European Commission has been ferociously zionist and gung-ho for this Palestinian genocide. It displayed the Israeli flag on its Berlaymont headquarters. It has taken a side in the most ferocious way.

It is therefore deeply sinister that the European Commission is actively working to shut down pro-Palestinian information and comment on social media. The European Commission has written to all major social media organisations and is able to threaten them with massive fines if they do not remove information of which the European Union disapproves.

The notion is plainly nonsense that through the fog of war the European Commission – which is 100% parti pris – is qualified to say what information is true and what information is false, and what comment is legitimate.

Thierry Breton, the European Commissioner in charge of this operation, is a former chief executive of electronic companies – and defence contractors – Atos and Thomson. He has no genuine interest in freedom of speech, and is engaged in a process of silencing dissent for military aims, which is quite simply fascist.

We are witnessing almost all western governments deliberately facilitating massacre, ethnic cleansing and genocide. We are witnessing almost all western governments turning on their own people to crush dissent at that complicity in genocide.

This feels not so much like the week that western democracy died, as the week it was impossible any longer to deny that western democracy died some time ago.

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1,249 thoughts on “Fascism in the West to Enable Genocide in Palestine

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    • Leftworks

      Just because someone is Jewish, or married to someone who is Jewish, does not mean that they will of necessity acquiesce in or approve of the committing of crimes against a captive and oppressed people. That Sir Keir Starmer is unlikely to protest does not mean that jeers at his wife’s ethnicity are appropriate. I am saddened that the first comment on this new piece by Craig Murray appears to be an ugly and antisemitic one.

      • Tom Welsh

        I didn’t see George Dale’s comment as anti-semitic or critical of his wife. Any Jewish person may possibly have some bias – probably in favour of Israel, but in some cases maybe against Israel. Others may be neutral. It’s hardly as if being “outed” as Jewish would harm a person in any way in today’s Britain.

      • George Dale

        I take offence at being called anti-semitic by someone who does not know me at all. I think that comes under the heading “bigotry”. Religion plays no part in my life. I have lived in many countries and met and got to know many people of different faiths

        • Leftworks

          Too bad, I’m afraid. I did not say you were antisemitic; I said your comment is ugly and antisemitic, and I stand by that. It is. Whether or not I know you is irrelevant to the comment before my eyes.

          • Tempestteacup

            [MOD: Caught in spam-filter, timestamp updated]
            ___

            I’m Jewish and a critic of Zionism to an extent that would undoubtedly have seen me ejected from the Labour Party had I been a member (probably ejected under Corbyn during his appeasement of the party’s hard right, much less Starmer) and I found OP’s comment horribly antisemitic. If it was thoughtless or reflexive, that is merely a different kind of awfulness and in fact, several other comments in this thread are equally appalling.

            This is another instance of what I have reluctantly been forced increasingly to consider, especially since the current crisis began: the existence of Israel is the greatest driver of contemporary antisemitism in the world.

            I see it here where I live in Western Europe, where many of the people I know have family members deeply implicated in the crimes of WWII. Support for Israel with seemingly no restraint or limit has become a sentiment expressed across the entire spectrum of bourgeois thought. Intellectuals, artists – not all, but many – are using support for Zionism seemingly to cleanse their guilt for the crimes of their parents or grandparents.

            The result is that I, a Jew, have been lectured on antisemitism by the relatives of people who tried, within living memory, to liquidate my own family and who would have done the same to me because they considered me subhuman.

            Support for Israel – which today is fully realising its essence as an ethno-nationalist and white settler-colonialist project steeped in the theories of white or racial or religious supremacies born out of the late 19th century imperialist conflicts and then, later, the bourgeois counter-revolution against the spread of socialism – to me represents antisemitism, and is antisemitic, for the following reasons:

            •  It rehabilitates the view that Jews have divided loyalties, between wherever they are from and the state of Israel.

            •  It endorses the idea that Israel represents all Jews.

            •  By doing so, it totalises Jewish identity and suppresses our differences, including the very existence of anti-Zionist Jews.

            •  It perpetuates the racialist, ahistorical notion that Jews and Arabs are engaged in a transhistorical, never-ending conflict rooted in ethno-religious hatred.

            •  By totalising Jews and erasing difference it makes all of us, willing or not, complicit in Israeli crimes.

            And so on. Some of these are exactly the forms of antisemitism in evidence on this thread. That they come from a place critical of Israel makes no difference.

            Look at the disproportionate numbers of Jewish people expelled from the Labour Party for their expressions of support for Palestine and anti-Zionism. The mavens of Israeli war crimes and ethnic cleansing in the Western political and media sewer do not care about Jews, our diversity of opinions, our differences or our personal dignity. They care about Israel as a political project that serves Western interests. And as the inexorable logic of Israel’s own founding ideology manifests itself increasingly starkly through acts of violent oppression, they fall back on antisemitic formulations to justify the crimes of the state at the expense of the people.

            It has been a horrible week or two for many reasons – and, I realise, it is a different order of horror to that faced by the captive population of Gaza. But one of them, for me, has been witnessing the antisemitism persisting at the very heart of Western media and politics.

      • Bayard

        “That Sir Keir Starmer is unlikely to protest does not mean that jeers at his wife’s ethnicity are appropriate.”

        That someone has mentioned his wife’s ethnicity does not mean that Kier Starmer is not a self-admitted Zionist, and all the bias that implies in someone who is widely tipped to be the next Prime Minister.

        • Cabbage

          Nobody mentioned her ethnicity – they mentioned her Religious beliefs, and Starmer’s support of a Genocidal supremacist Political ideology.

          Starmer’s support for crimes against humanity are damning.

          • Drew Anderson

            Are you, perhaps, conflating ethnicity with race?

            Ethnicity is a very loose term that covers, more or less, anything that people mutually identify with. It can cover any of: racial; national; linguistic; cultural or religious differences.

          • david

            The Nazis didn’t murder Jews for their religion but because of what they perceived as their race.

      • Laguerre

        The point is not that Starmer is married to a Jewish wife, but that he employs a member of the Mossad in his private office. That an Israeli agent surveys every act in his office is all the proof anyone would need of his policies.

        • Urban Fox

          So he’s a philosemite nuptially, a zionist ideologically, and an asset of Israel politically?

          Give the man his due, it’s probably his one area of total public *and* private consistency.

          • Bayard

            How can we not elect his party and make him the next PM in the forthcoming election without being anti-semitic?

    • Jack

      How can this man have any support in Labour? After they ousted Corbyn it seems like the new cadre filtrated whole Labour from pro-palestinians or even neutral views

      I mean what pathological swine is this?
      Keir Starmer won’t criticise Israel for cutting water supplies to Gaza
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBf2b3XZrxY

      Large majority of the people that vote for Labour are of muslim, arab faith, apparently he takes his own faith above not only them but UK interests overall.

      Here is an article from 2015 where Keir apparently are pro-sanctions against Israel.
      https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/21371377.general-election-candidates-urged-support-sanctions-israel/
      What happend since? Some Israeli trips and brainwashing by the lobby?

      Here is another article on his jewish faith,
      https://www.jta.org/2020/12/28/global/zoom-prayers-and-jewish-kids-uk-labour-leader-keir-starmer-opens-up-about-his-jewish-family

      Is it his faith that leads him to support in effect a religious genocide? I wouldn’t put it past him based on his statements, actions.

      We need a revolution to get rid of these people but unfortunately majority of westerners are just fine with what Israel is doing now.

  • Jack

    Where does this u-turn by the EU come from? Sure EU have never been good on Israel/Palestine but this thing going on is something more ugly, something more sinister, something more extremistic – they are even worse then US on some aspects. EU have become an active part in both Ukraine and now in Palestine. Where does this pro-war, nationalistic, racist irraitonal raw fervor come from?

    Why are they supporting this heinous killings in total, like its something normal or accepted behavior?

    Israel just attacked Lebanon, expanding the war:
    Israeli occupation forces just bombed South Lebanon killing Reuters Journalist Issam Abdallah and injuring others from Al Jazeera
    https://nitter.net/Lowkey0nline/status/1712867178150564234#m

    And the people that fleed to the south were attacked by Israel, it was all a trick
    https://nitter.net/m7mdkurd/status/1712863526665003266#m

    The self-righteousness by Israel and EU/US have turned them all into modern day bloodlusting nazis.
    I feel bad if I see a mere bullying on the street, here we have the EU traveling down to Israel to show support while the same Israel brutalize sadistically and calculating slaughtering young people with US/EU weapons right in from of the leader of the EU. Oh man, these nasty people better get their punishment. Billions of muslims for one will likely not sit still after watching this.

    • Tom Welsh

      “EU have become an active part in both Ukraine and now in Palestine. Where does this pro-war, nationalistic, racist [irrational] raw fervor come from?”

      Plain ordinary human bloodlust, I reckon. European civilians haven’t been able to enjoy a good war for nearly 80 years – the TV experience just isn’t the same – and they are chafing at the bit.

      Also 80 years gives people plenty of time to forget what war is really like. They had better be careful what they wish for. Russians haven’t forgotten, although it has been 80 years for them too.

      • AG

        but Jack is rightly asking
        It has been bad in the EU but not this.
        But unlike with RU there was no NATO PR machine running to demonize Palestinians.

        Maybe people are truly as perceptible to the ridiculous work that nowadays goes for journalism. No serious foreign correspondents no more.

        Especially on complex not-easy-to-dissect topics like Palestine. People know nothing. And as for Germany, they knew even less, unless close to radical left views.

        In the US, denunciation has become a practice on campus.
        And rest assured you are not being denounced for calling Palestinians animals.

        So possibly social media in connection with true IDs of commentators easily determined have turned into that hell-bent machine many warned 20 years ago in addition to the fall of the house of labour and union (re: educational crisis among workers).

        • Tom Welsh

          “But unlike with RU there was no NATO PR machine running to demonize Palestinians”.

          You cannot be serious, man.

          “Hamas (UK: /hæˈmæs, ˈhæmæs/, US: /hɑːˈmɑːs, ˈhɑːmɑːs/; Arabic: حماس Ḥamās [ħaˈmaːs]),[31] officially the Islamic Resistance Movement (حركة المقاومة الإسلامية Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah), is a radical Sunni Islamist[32] political and military organization that is the de facto government of Palestine in the Gaza Strip of the Palestinian territories”.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

          So, Hamas is all the government that Gazans have.

          Near the very end of the lengthy Wikipedia article on Hamas is a section entitled “Terrorism”. There you can read:

          “The United States designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation in 1995, as did Canada in November 2002,[452] and the United Kingdom in November 2021.[29] The European Union designated Hamas’s military wing in 2001 and, under US pressure,[453] designated Hamas in 2003.[454] Hamas challenged this decision,[455] which was upheld by the European Court of Justice in July 2017.[456] Japan[457] and New Zealand[458] have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization.[459] The organization is banned in Jordan.[460]

          “Hamas is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran,[461] Russia,[462] Norway,[v] Switzerland,[464] Turkey, China,[465] Egypt, Syria, and Brazil.[466][467][468][469][470][471][excessive citations] “Many other states, including Russia, China, Syria, Turkey and Iran consider the (armed) struggle waged by Hamas to be legitimate.”[472]”

          So the USA, UK, EU, Canada and others have designated Hamas, the de facto government of Gaza, as a terrorist organisation. (“Proscribed”, as HMG elegantly put it). Therefore, as we have seen, it may be illegal simply to express support for or sympathy with Hamas in public.

          I call that “demonizing”. Quite apart from Israeli cabinet ministers calling all Gazans “animals”.

          Supremely ironic, isn’t it, that governments such as those of the USA, UK, EU, etc. should presume to “designate” others as “terrorists”?

          Such governments are, to all intents and purposes, the only significant terrorist organisations in the world. Beside the mounds of corpses they continue to produce, the efforts of such as Hamas are negligible – and always will be.

      • Casual Observer

        The wheels are coming off the Ukraine effort, and the posturing boobies that pass for politicians these days made the wrong bet. Hence their scrambling to be seen to be tough on current events in the Holy Land, of which the timing seems to be remarkably fortuitous.

    • Stevie Boy

      Every single day the EU by its actions confirms that brexit was the right decision for the UK. It’s bad enough having an elected fascist government without being associated with the unelected swine that make up the EU.

  • Republicofscotland

    Will there eventually be a revolution in Europe possibly kicked-off by the brave and bold French against European governments who appear to be complicit in what’s happening in the Gaza Strip and sadly what’s about to come, how many more innocent Palestinians need to die before the public says enough is enough.

    Europe has taken a leaf out of the USA’s book and is now coming down heavy on its own citizens, freedom of speech in Europe is in danger of being snuffed out in some countries.

    Meanwhile those who did manage to flee Gaza have been gunned down on the roads by the Zionists, I suppose its easier for the murdering Zionists to kill them, if they are out in the open than going from room to room to do it which they intend to do.

    https://nitter.net/EyeonPalestine/status/1712861833239896568#m

      • Jack

        Why wait? Cut the gas/oil now!
        Whole arab world could amass troops, arms, tanks on the border of Gaza and Israel as a mere show of force, just such simple move would make the westerners piss their pants and call for deescalation, it is high time the arab states act because there will be a Arab spring against these corrupt arab leaders and this time the toppling of this crowd will be carried through in total I bet.

        • Jack

          ah of course apparently the threat to cut the gas was fake news (just google it).
          I have no idea how these arab leaders want to humiliate themselves like this, you got all the money in the world, cut the ties west for crying out loud!

          Blinken just came to the arab world to make sure there was no effort to support the palestinians, to split the arab/muslim/shia/sunni world by stopping any effort by Iran to unify a response.

          Meanwhile sadism is going on in full spin.
          Israel’s evacuation order for Gaza ‘death sentence’ for patients, WHO says
          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/13/israels-evacuation-order-for-gaza-death-sentence-for-patients-who-says

          • Republicofscotland

            Yeah Jack it looks like it is fake, is there no country that will put its head above the parapet and speak out against the Zionist murderers who are in the process of committing genocide..

          • Stevie Boy

            Saudi has halted normalisation with Israel following talks with Iran.
            Also, mustn’t forget that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is one of the holy sites of Islam.

          • Laguerre

            Blinken’s trip to the Gulf was a waste of time (anyway Blinken is one of the worst diplomats on the planet, and wouldn’t convince anyone). There is very strong pro-Palestinian sentiment in Saudi that MbS can’t resist. What the micro-states in the Gulf think is less important, as an autocrat without more than a handful of population can think what he wants, but it has little effect.

          • david

            They have all that money from selling oil and gas to the west. If America so wishes it it can easily enforce a naval blockade against them to prevent selling elsewhere.

            And they depend entirely for their continued existence on military and intelligence support from the west. They are terrified of their own populace.

        • Bayard

          Why should the other Arabs support the Palestinians? In WWs I and II the Christians in Britain were quite happy to fight people of the same religion and ethnicity in Germany. Whilst differences in religion and ethnicity are often used as an excuse for war, the converse is not true.

          • Casual Observer

            It’s sadly the case that Palestinians don’t tend towards huge popularity in other Arab countries. The case of Jordan and the Black September events has probably led to neighbouring States being rather wary of taking in Palestinian refugees. Then there was the business of Arafat and the PLO getting booted out of Tripoli.

            Most Arab nations have their own problems to deal with, so it’s maybe understandable that they are not too keen on potentially adding to them.

          • Laguerre

            Casual Observer
            That is not right. Palestinians are well liked, but there’s often not much that an Arab state can do. Don’t forget the Israeli strategy of stirring up destabilisation in all Arab power. strategy that largely succeeded when they had the US to put it into practice, and let the US suffer the casualties (Iraq).

          • Casual Observer

            Laguerre, the historical record shows that when Palestinian refugees move en masse they destabilise the places they go to: trying to take over Jordan, and being players in what became the Lebanese Civil War being the prime examples. Although in the case of Jordan, the difference between Palestinian, and Jordanian, might be less than clear cut.

            I’m sure individual Palestinians are just as nice of a folk as you and I, but it remains the fact that the sheer numbers of those displaced since 48 make them, as a group, dangerous to the established regimes in the area.

      • Goose

        Increasingly the EU in Brussels looks like a US State Dept branch office. An extension of US power and hegemonic influence. No one expected the EU to develop quite like this. Do the Commission have a single issue where they aren’t in lock step with the US?

        The CIA are obviously fiendishly impressive in getting what their Washington masters want, using all resources including media assets at their disposal. Social media is increasingly controlled and member state domestic press attack anyone out of step with the US line as a Kremlin puppet (Orbán, Fico). The real menace to democracy is the US, it’s selfish determination to control and its infiltration of European states at all levels using Nato as a trojan horse..

        • Jack

          Yes Goose well put, what is so absurd is that no one is even talking about international law anymore, its like if Israel want to bomb kids, it is their right, if Israel want to cut waterflow, aid, internet, it is their right. And no power, no big political party is protesting. Human rights organisations, journalists, everyone is passive!?
          Multiple journalists hurt and atleast 1 killed in Lebanon after targeted israeli strike:
          https://nitter.net/mgdowney/status/1712871590445076973#m
          These people are not right in the head.

          • Goose

            Some would claim Nato membership comes with no obligations to support US foreign policy objectives.

            But that’s obviously untrue because a govt within Nato taking a different line would be subject to all sorts of US and US ally coercion and inducements( eg. FVEYs intel sharing offers) to fall into line. Failing that, they’d get the Corbyn treatment from US linked media companies in elections. We’ve all been conditioned to fear Russian, Chinese attempts to influence European politics, while the US walks all over European democracy with arrogant disdain.

          • Goose

            Jack .

            It’s no coincidence that the only country in the EU speaking out on behalf of the Palestinians, is Ireland – one of five members of the European Union that are not members of NATO.

            US-led NATO is subject to groupthink just like any other large organisation. And it potentially pits Defence/Intel agency officials against elected govts, should said govts want to take a different line. That is deeply problematic if you believe in democracy. It’s why I think Nato should be disbanded.

        • Goose

          The US political commitment to Israel is quasi-religious. Baffling to most Europeans who have a far more jaded view of ethno-religious state Israel.

          I don’t hate the US at all. Just wish they’d mind their own fckin’ business. And butt out of interfering in other countries’ sovereign democracies using the pretext of ‘protecting their interests’.

          The claim by the US that Russia and China are attempting the same is also demonstrably false, as China and Russia have zero sway over EU policy direction and no discernible political allies.

        • Hans Adler

          Things became very clear already in the 2021 federal elections in Germany. I had never seen any elections as obviously manipulated before. Angela Merkel had left politics, so for anyone practising the kind of manipulations known as ‘guided democracy’, this was a natural moment to pass the power from her Christian Democrats to the other (traditionally) major party, the Social Democrats. (The german term ‘gelenkte Demokratie’ is more direct. It translates literally to ‘steered democracy’.) The Social Democrats came up with Olaf Scholz as their leading candidate. A man one cannot properly describe as having no charisma. His charisma is actually negative. He was known nationally for exactly three things: 1. being extremely boring, 2. being extremely corrupt and having (barely) gotten away with it, and 3. having been responsible when a drug dealer was tortured to death by the state. The media only ever talked about 1. Anyone trying to bring up 2 or 3 in the public discourse was shut down immediately. The Christian Democrats quite overtly didn’t even try to counter this candidate with a real candidate of their own — probably to ensure that Scholz gets elected despite being obviously unsuitable in almost every respect.

          The February 2022 joint press conference in Washington by Olaf Scholz and Joe Biden in retrospect made it clear (if there was any doubt) who was behind this perversion of the democratic process. Biden said that in case of war in Ukraine, the US would stop Nord Stream 2. Asked how, he declined to say how, but insisted there would be a way. Scholz, when asked about the same topic, did _not_ defend this project, which was of key importance for the German economy. Instead, he used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. One can suspect that Biden had already informed him that the pipeline would be bombed and he could do nothing against it because a) he owed his election to the US, and b) the US has compromising material about him related to items 1 and 2 mentioned above.

          The next similar idiocy of the German government was actually building a super-expensive LPG terminal on the Baltic Sea coast for US fracking gas, supposedly as a replacement for Russian gas. Which of course makes absolutely no sense except from the point of view of the US, which is struggling to find a market for their inferior and overpriced gas.

          One could have predicted something like this. ‘Cablegate’ had exposed the fact that US diplomats were unhappy with Angela Merkel because they found it impossible to psychologically manipulate her into making rash decisions counter to German interests. The election of her successor was the obvious moment when the US was likely to step in to prevent a repetition of this ‘problem’. This was particularly important because the US’ previous strongest voice in the EU had to be replaced due to Brexit. Controlling Germany gives them far more influence in the EU than controlling the UK did, so this was a very successful operation – at least in the short term.

          • U Watt

            Hans

            Are ordinary Germans unaware Biden said that, with Scholz standing right next to him?

            I have to tell myself they must be.

          • Hans Adler

            Yes, most Germans have no idea, are not aware of the specifics of how Biden announced the attack in advance. And even among those who are aware, I think most have no idea that Scholz stood next to him. Why should they? You would expect the German media to mention such a fact occasionally, or at least someone interviewed by them should bring it up. But this does not happen. Apparently, our media have decided that this would confuse the population. Therefore if you tell a German, the typical first reaction is simply disbelief, as this is something they rightly would expect to have heard before.
            Until a few years ago, the German media appeared to be a lot more free than that of the US and UK. I don’t know if this was already an illusion at the time or if it just meant that the topics on which I judged this just weren’t considered critical (yet) by those in control.

          • U Watt

            Thanks for the insight. The lack of reaction has been baffling me. Were the roles reversed the reaction would probably have seen the end of Germany.

        • Hans Adler

          Based on the Wikipedia article “National Transmission System”, I would assume it’s extracted domestically. More precisely, the article links to the article “United Kingdom Continental Shelf” as the source of the gas since 1967.

        • Lapsed Agnostic

          From memory, around this time last year, Tom, the UK was getting just under half of its natural gas from its sector of the North Sea, around a third was piped in from the Norwegian sector, and the rest was LNG, mainly from the US & Qatar, but also a little bit from Russia – something that I’d imagine has now ended.

  • Flightstartech

    Well said as always Craig. If the original attack carried out by Hamas as reported is true then it of course represents a horrible act. The actions thereafter by Israel however show an incredibly obvious use of the events as an excuse to obliterate an opponent which is clearly underarmed and unable to respond as necessary – air dominance is naturally a major factor. As for the flags projected on Western buildings, I have never agreed with this in any conflict. This doesn’t represent the beliefs of me and I’m sure a great many others – but then again what does our opinion matter here! I feel for all normal and innocent people killed, injured and affected as always in these conflicts. 🥲

    • Republicofscotland

      ” If the original attack carried out by Hamas as reported is true then it of course represents a horrible act.”

      You sound like the BBC.

      Why is it a horrible act when Hamas/Palestinians do it, but its classed as defending themselves when the Zionist occupying regime does it?

      Ask yourself whose land it is, and which people have been systematically murdered and displaced for around eighty years.

      UN General Assembly resolution 37/43 adopted in 1982, allows the Palestinians to eject these squatters by whatever means necessary.

      https://nitter.net/kennardmatt/status/1710609969085554916#m

      • Flightstartech

        It’s of course disgusting when Israel have and continue to do this. Absolutely not defence in the slightest. I’m definitely not the BBC! 😄

        Thanks for the link.

        • DiggerUK

          Flightstartech, we should condemn the Hamas killing of civilians as fervently as we condemn the Israeli killing of civilians. To excuse one and condemn the other for the same crime is to support crimes against humanity…_

          • Flightstartech

            Absolutely. Every death is a person. Sad state we are in when it’s all just numbers.

          • pretzelattack

            while we are doing that, let’s not pretend that the number of casualties is in any way proportional, and let’s not pretend we don’t know who created this situation. the figure I have read is 40:1 overall.

          • Cabbage

            (1) Armed Settlers are not Civilians https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231013-israel-settler-filmed-shooting-palestinian-at-point-blank-range-in-west-bank/ – The attack on three military bases, resulting in 500 members of the zionist state terrorist group being no longer able to commit crimes against humanity are legitimate under international law.

            (2) “The Israeli military “has made clear its intent to commit genocide against the Palestinian people in Gaza,” Defence of Children International – Palestine said today.
            The rights group added: ”At least 583 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli airstrikes and shelling, representing one-third of the total death toll.”
            “The casualty count is rising exponentially as Israeli authorities seal Palestinians in Gaza off from food, electricity, fuel, water, medical supplies, and internet.””

            (3) to Quote the EU – “I would also like to reiterate that the right to self-defence naturally applies particularly in moments where the attacks continue. This also includes all measures aimed at stopping these attacks”

            (4) He said “the framing of the conflict in this latest round of fighting usually completely silences the context of 16 years of strangulation and siege, an ongoing war on Gaza, complete denial of Palestinians, human rights, civil rights, political economic rights, really that “dignity as humans at all, largely based on an ideology of racial supremacy and domination.”

            The British journalist also highlighted the rapid dissemination of false and manipulative news regarding the conflict, saying: “The point is, of course, this is an ongoing war between Israel and Palestinians, and part of that is an informational war. It is a propaganda war.”

            Commenting on an allegation by an Israeli journalist who claimed live on air that Hamas beheaded 40 Israeli babies, Fear said: “Is it true that Hamas carried out beheadings of 40 children? Well, it looks like that that isn’t true, because there “There has been no evidence.”

            But, he added, “The story was then fed effectively throughout the English-speaking western media landscape, including landing on the front pages of major London newspapers.”

            Children “have already been beheaded by Israel’s aerial bombardments, but that is of little to no report in the Western reportage,” he said. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231013-british-journalist-accuses-western-media-of-bias-in-reporting-on-israel-palestine-conflict/

            The occupying power which is the Zionist State Terrorist group abrogates it’s responsiblities under international law to protect the Civillian population. The Palestinian people have the absolute right to liberate themselve by liquidate the terrorists occupying their homes, their land, murdering their familys and keeping them in the Gaza Ghetto.

            The Gaza Ghetto uprising is being traduced by people arming Nazi’s in Ukraine, and supporting Genocide.

    • Stevie Boy

      If we are to believe the all pervading reach of the Israeli security services including electronic surveillance and a network of spies and informers in gaza; and, if we are to believe that mossad supported and set up Hamas to undermine Arafat and infiltrates it at all levels, then it stands to reason that Israel knew about the attacks before they happened – as reported by Egypt. And, maybe the USA and NATO and the UK knew beforehand !
      “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” Arthur Conan Doyle.

      • Allan Howard

        As I understand it, Egypt said that they warned Israel that ‘something big’ was about to happen prior to the Hamas attack, and I take it that THAT is what you mean, as opposed to Egypt saying that Israel knew (of their own accord) what Hamas was planning to do, which it kinda sounds like you are saying because of the way you phrased it. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that if Israel ALREADY knew that Hamas were planning an attack, then THAT would explain why Netanyahu denied that Egypt warned him (as I recall it, Egypt warned whoever initially, and then sometime later warned Netanyahu directly). But putting aside the scenario in which Israel/Netanyahu ALREADY knew, he could hardly acknowledge that he WAS warned by Egypt, could he?! Yes, it’s convoluted!

        Allow me to try and explain it another way with the following scenario: Netanyahu knew weeks (or months) beforehand that Hamas were planning a major attack (via Israeli intelligence), and he and his buddies decided to do nothing about it and let it happen for a range of (obvious) reasons, and then at some point Egyptian security service contacts their Israeli counterparts and warns them that Hamas is in the process of planning and organising a big attack (but they don’t let on that they already know, and assume that it will never become public knowledge that Egypt warned them), but then an Egyptian spokes-person lets it be publicly known a couple of days or so after the Hamas attack began that Egypt had warned Israel, and THEY of course HAD to deny it. I hope that’s SLIGHTLY less convoluted.

        And just quickly….. There is another possible scenario (that just occurred to me whilst I was typing out the above), and that is that Egyptian intelligence got wind that Hamas was planning something big through it’s spying on Israel itself and, as such, realised they were going to let it happen……………………………

        Anyway, I came across the following in the middle of typing that out:

        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047

        • david

          Successful armies and intelligence agencies do have a tendency to become arrogant and dismissive of their opponents. It is quite likely they knew something was coming. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they dismissed the idea of Hamas being able to organise anything of such scale without a thought.

          • Allan Howard

            But Egyptian intelligence told them ‘Something Big’ was coming. And Netanyanu vehemently denied it. Now WHY would he do that?

      • Julian Bond

        Is it a coincidence that the Hamas attack happened exactly one day after the 50th anniversary of the start of the Yom Kippur War?

    • Cabbage

      “A senior IDF officer who spoke with The New York Times stated that the militants who infiltrated the army bases and were positioned near the border acted ruthlessly and even fired at soldiers in their living quarters. The officer went on to say that in other cases, militants were aware of the location of communication equipment and servers and rushed to destroy them. This made it difficult for the troops on the ground to understand the full picture of the situation and respond quickly to the attack.”

      So exercising one’s right under international law targeting military bases, vs a terrorist group bombing 1 million children.
      The Zionist State Terrorist group is the party responsible for the violence; the oppressed’s violence is a response to the violence of oppression. What is happening now has happened continuously since 1918, with the only difference that the ZST got a bloody nose, and the world is aware of what the genocidal terrorists in the ZST did before, during and after – the crimes against humanity, with support of the US and the UK. The continuous Nakba is visible – but no day since 1948 has passed without the ZST murdering a Palestinian.

  • glenn_nl

    Corbyn is wondering why Starmer is apparently incapable of calling for peace, and an end to hostilities on all sides:

    https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/10/jeremy-corbyn-i-condemn-violence-against-all-civilians-why-cant-keir-starmer

    The doublethink going on here is very impressive.

    If you don’t support the brave Ukrainians in their struggle against an overwhelming invader, then you’re in the wrong. These magnificent defenders deserve our full support, money, weapons, propaganda…

    But if you _do_ support the Palestinians in their struggle against an overwhelming invader/ occupier, then you’re in the wrong. These cowardly terrorists deserve nothing but condemnation, and their occupiers/oppressors deserve our full support, money, weapons, propaganda …

    • Tom Welsh

      It’s glaringly obvious. The Ukrainians and the Israelis are on the side of the USA. Period. Law, morality, decency, fairness and logic don’t come into it.

      Everyone wants to be on the side of the 800 lb gorilla – especially when it’s in a killing rage. (As it usually is).

    • DiggerUK

      I hope everyone reads Corbyns’ article.

      He calls out …..”The heinous attacks on civilians in Israel by Hamas as being”… “utterly deplorable”. So should we all…_

        • DiggerUK

          Yes glen_nl, and I do so with pride.
          I have no truck with war criminals and those who commit crimes against humanity. Hamas, ISIS, IDF, what’s the difference?…_

          • Cabbage

            The Zionist State Terrorist Group are murdering Palestinians for being Palestinian.
            ISIS seem to be a murderous death cult, but I freely admit little knowledge of them.
            Hamas are a national liberation movement which is a political party, with an armed wing. They are facing an overwhelming military force with contempt for humanity and civillian life – despite filming their attack, a bunch of attrocity propaganda has filled the airwaves – so the abject humilliation of the ZST is being covered in some BS about a festival – where the “innocents” include serving members of the ZST, like a “tank instructer”

            ZST and ISIS are in flagrant violation of International Law – the rights of armed struggle – seem to distingush between the occupier and the occupied. Under which terms, ZST/ISIS are terrorists, despite what the racists in the US say. Exercising one’s rights under international law, to liberate themselves from a concentration camp, is not remotely comparable to the actions of ZST/ISIS both of whom are occupying someone elses land, while murdering innocents.

  • Republicofscotland

    Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant: (watch him say it) “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything.”

    https://nitter.net/therapisthammam/status/1712877548420345989#m

    Meanwhile George Galloway says.

    “There will now be the murderous suppression of the #GazaGhetto 2.2 million people may be erased from the earth but not from history. In the words of Frantz Fanon: “we revolt because we cannot breath”. Those who carry out this massacre, those who facilitated it, those who propagandised for it, will be remembered by the same history. Their names will drip with shame for eternity.”

    https://nitter.net/georgegalloway

    • Laguerre

      Unfortunately Starmer is not alone. There’s no point is letting one obsession with Starmer take over everything. The Tories are worse for Brits globally.

  • Mark White

    Two more perfect examples of the twisted values and double standards of the corporate media this afternoon:

    Firstly, Marina Hyde in the Guardian, who on the one hand correctly described Hamas’s attack on Israel as an “unspeakable monstrosity”, but at the same time dismissed the mayhem in Gaza as merely a “humanitarian crisis” without any reference to the Israeli F16s raining down bombs on children in densely populated urban areas.

    Then there was Tom Swarbrick on LBC explaining how Israel F16 pilots can’t be described as terrorists because their intention is not to kill civilians, thus absolving them from any responsibility for the collateral deaths which inevitably follow from bombing civilian areas – a policy which is just as morally degenerate as the actions of Hamas last Saturday.

    • Runner77

      Why do you think Hamas’s attack on Israel is an “unspeakable monstrosity”? Let me quote a relevant part of UNGA 37/43, to which Republic of Scotland referred above. The resolution reaffirms that “the system of apartheid … constitutes an inadmissible violation of the rights of … people and a constant threat to international security”, and also reaffirms “the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle”.

      That seems pretty clear to me. It’s disappointing that even supporters of Palestinian rights feel the need to preface their comments with “I’m no supporter of Hamas, but . . . “, or words to that effect.

      • Mark White

        You quote UNGA 37/43, which “……. reaffirms “the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle”.

        But I am not aware of any UN resolution which legitimises war crimes such as the murder of innocent women and children. Perhaps you could enlighten me. According to the Geneva Conventions, war crimes incude wilful killing, causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, torture or inhumane treatment, unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer, taking hostages and directing attacks against civilians – all of which Hamas were guilty of last Saturday.

        And I doubt that most Palestinians would use this justification to defend Hamas’s actions either, especially as it’s given Israel a pretext for demonising them all as terrorists and wiping out the population of Gaza.

        • Cabbage

          The unevidenced attrocity propaganda is just that – unevidenced attrocity propaganda. Or as we call it LIES.

          There is footage of uniformed terrorists being dragged out of a tanks. Destroyed tanks, and occupied military bases.

          Here what the ZST say are the dead – no children on that List – https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article/israels-dead-civilians-soldiers-emergency-services-personnel-killed-in-war-with-hamas/0000018b-0de8-dc5d-a39f-9fecb5a30000

          “Commenting on an allegation by an Israeli journalist who claimed live on air that Hamas beheaded 40 Israeli babies, Fear said: “Is it true that Hamas carried out beheadings of 40 children? Well, it looks like that that isn’t true, because there “There has been no evidence.”

          But, he added, “The story was then fed effectively throughout the English-speaking western media landscape, including landing on the front pages of major London newspapers.”

          Children “have already been beheaded by Israel’s aerial bombardments, but that is of little to no report in the Western reportage,” he said.” https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231013-british-journalist-accuses-western-media-of-bias-in-reporting-on-israel-palestine-conflict/

          All crimes against humanity/war crimes should be investigated and the perpertators held to account.

          “Israel a pretext for demonising them all as terrorists and wiping out the population of Gaza.” Like 2014 https://time.com/3445394/netanyahu-un-general-assembly-hamas-abbas/. The ZST are genocidal racists, who intend on murdering as many Palestinians as possible, better to die resisting than wait to be murder, so that some tosser on the internet can approve.

        • Lysias

          Israel is now repeating what it has done in many wars: murdering innocent women and children from the air. The number of innocent women and children that it has so far murdered probably already exceeds the number of innocent women and children that Hamas has so far murdered in the current conflict, and will undoubtedly massively exceed it shortly.

          • Allan Howard

            Lysias, Craig begins his article by saying ‘Over 500 children have been killed in Gaza in the last week and over 2,000 maimed, many with life changing injuries.’ Putting aside the beheading of forty babies falsehood (and I doubt Hamas deliberately killed any babies, OR young children, but maybe some were killed in their missile attacks), I’ve not come across any Israeli figures that specify the number of children killed (out of the over-all figure, which I believe is currently around 1,300). I just double-checked and this was posted six hours ago:

            “In Israel, more than 1,300 people have died, and 3,227 others have been injured, according to Israeli officials. In Gaza, at least 1,799 people have died, including 583 children and 351 women, officials said. Another 7,388 people were injured. In the West Bank, 44 people have been killed.”

    • Tom Welsh

      The pilots are guilty of worse crimes than the “terrorists”. They kill far more people, they do it in a cowardly way, and they try to dodge responsibility.

      As for the journalists, the less said the better. They are a disgrace to their species.

  • Republicofscotland

    Could the Chinese barter some sort of peace, at least they aren’t afraid to take a stance against the genocide of the Palestinian people.

    “Wang Yi very clear on Palestine at a press conference with Borrell: “The injustice faced by the Palestinians has lingered for over half a century, spanning multiple generations and causing immense suffering. It cannot continue any longer!””

    https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1712883503367704913#m

    Didn’t the Chinese recently barter some sort of peace deal between Yemen and the Saudi’s

  • Tom Welsh

    “This feels not so much like the week that western democracy died, as the week it was impossible any longer to deny that western democracy died some time ago”.

    Yes. It’s the week that the smell became impossible to ignore.

  • Republicofscotland

    I think we all have an inkling what will happen if they don’t comply.

    “Israel has given Al Awda Hospital just two hours to evacuate. Our staff are still treating patients.

    We unequivocally condemn this action, the continued indiscriminate bloodshed and attacks on health care in Gaza.

    We are trying to protect our staff and patients.”

    https://nitter.net/MSF/status/1712886892885061811#m

    “Devastating statement released by our colleagues at the @PalestineRCS today:

    “We do not have the means to evacuate the sick and the wounded in our hospitals, or the elderly and the disabled. There are no safe areas in the whole of the Gaza Strip. Humanity is on the line.””

    Read the statement.

    https://nitter.net/rohantalbot/status/1712852897568890985#m

  • Scott

    “The essence of the bureaucratic character is to behave like the functionaries of a totalitarian system – it is the essence of their moral ‘superiority’ that they are not individuals who are responsible for their actions.” – Erich Fromm, “The Sane Society” (1955)

    Who will be held responsible for the genocide of Palestinian civilians?

    No one; it will not be called genocide, it will never be treated as a war crime. The US and Israel do not recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC. It will be celebrated in the media as justice, and the stories of the dead Palestinians will never be heard (just as they were ignored when alive). Our attention will be directed instead to Israeli grief, people who have names and stories to be told. We will relate to them, and imagine that we are the same, and cry too. Crying will remind us we are good people, not witnesses to war crimes.

    The right of Israeli self defence, a powerful narcotic dulling the public conscience, stronger than the conventions governing war. Meanwhile Palestinian children will be bombed and dismembered, by no one responsible, an ‘inevitable’ consequence of a prior terror attack they don’t understand, while the world watches.

    Respect to you Craig, for using your voice with courage.

    *. *. *

    Opinion piece describing the problems the ICC prosecutor will have
    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/12/the-icc-prosecutor-needs-to-break-his-silence-on-israel-palestine

    Recommended podcast episode
    “I think all of us, any human being who hears the stories or sees the footage of what was done to Israeli civilians, is horrified on a visceral level. But if you don’t have a history of being horrified on a visceral level, when you see Palestinian children slaughtered on the beach, when you see whole families wiped out in drone strikes, when you see entire residential buildings blown apart, then any demand that a Palestinian from Gaza have a political position about Hamas, or to say something about what happened at the rave music festival in a desert that is situated a stone’s throw away from an open air prison camp, it’s bankrupt. It’s utterly morally bankrupt to say to someone who is a victim of collective punishment for their entire young life, as the first question, “what do you say about Hamas?” – Marwan Bishara, Senior Political Analyst, Al Jazeera
    https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/intercepted-gaza-israel/

    • Townsman

      the ICC

      The ICC is a cynical sham, and always was. It sounds good to put people like Himmler on trial in a court, but the essence of justice is that it must be blind: it must apply to a Stalin as well as to a Himmler, to Blair as well as to Milosevic. Of course that never happens.

  • FranzB

    The Israeli’s have suggested that those Palestinians in North Gaza should move to the South. i.e. they’ve suggested that the Palestinians should organise their own death march in order to ethnically cleanse North Gaza. Most will ignore Israel’s invitation to participate in their own ethnic cleansing.

    Alexander Mercouris of The Duran has suggested that Israel may be short of material, which is why they’re stalling for time. The U.S. has depleted its own stocks of bombs and shells in Israel because it gave them to Ukraine, so that may be another reason for all the huffing and puffing.

    It’s worth remembering Julian Assange’s point about the political economy of war. The US gives $4 billion to Israel which they use to buy weapons from US arms manufacturers, with the intention of testing them in Gaza and Syria, so that those US companies can then sell these weapons as battle tested.

    The conflict can be resolved by ending apartheid and creating one democratic state with equal rights for all citizens.

  • Jack

    How can they sit in the ICC (international criminal court) building and watch this unfolding and do not have the human decency to act? We not only have warcrimes, we have crimes against humanity, we have deliberate plan to exterminate and destroy another people. And ICC say nothing and then they want to us to believe they are somehow impartial? Somehow pro-human rights? Real sociopaths.

    Just take this deliberately bombing a refugee camp. Could you get any more evil?
    Gaza’s interior ministry says at least 45 Palestinians killed in Israeli airstrike on house in northern refugee camp
    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/gazas-interior-ministry-45-palestinians-killed-israeli-airstrike-103937749

    Well I guess ICC are still busy with the Putin arrest warrant or perhaps the building of a Venezuela case.

    ICC prosecutor seeks to reopen Venezuela investigation
    ICC chief prosecutor Karim Khan said on Tuesday he formally asked the court to resume his investigation into alleged human rights violations committed by Venezuelan officials.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/icc-prosecutor-seeks-reopen-venezuela-investigation-2022-11-01/
    Human rights violations in Venezuela? What the hell would he call what is going in Gaza then??

    If we had real journalsits they would bring this Karim Khan ICC judge chap to the studio and expose what a fraud he is.

  • Robert Dyson

    I wonder if there is a bigger plan of regime change in Iran. Provoke a response to make an attack seem legitimate. Keeping in mind Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya & Syria this will not end well.

    • Casual Observer

      That might underestimate the Iranian people ? Remember the Pahlavi Peacock Throne operated a pretty tight internal repression regime, think SAVAK, and a lavishly funded and equipped army. And yet the whole edifice crumbled to nought in a very few weeks, which might indicate that not only does the man on the Tehran omnibus wield the power in the land, but also that he might be reasonably happy with the current state of affairs ? The Islamic government has persisted for quite a long time now despite what must have been quite an effort by the USA, through emigre’s, and proxy’s, to get rid of it.

      The Iranian government looks pretty secure, and a bad bet for regime change, but I doubt that would stop the Yanks from having a go. After all they thought they were going to dislodge Papa Pu, even though he seemed to have approval figures well above the 60% mark. 🙂

  • Michael Droy

    You can’t get a senior cabinet position without a US all clear.
    That means any ambitious politician Must stick to US talking points – not some of the crazy anti-Russian comments of May, Boris Truss and anyone who wants to be FM or DM.

  • DiggerUK

    Our host is misinformed when he claims “…..In both the UK and the US there can be no more stark illustration of the lack of any kind of meaningful democracy, than the fact that there is no major political party that opposes the genocide….”

    Humza Yousaf has been all over Sky with his clearly distressing situation regards his family in Gaza, Salmond has called for “de-escalation, even some ScotGreens have called the Israeli action out.
    The silence or condemnation of some IndyScot supporters to the honourable comments of Humza Yusuf is shameful…_

    https://news.sky.com/story/humza-yousaf-feels-powerless-to-protect-family-members-trapped-in-gaza-and-hes-angry-at-uk-foreign-secretary-12983946

    • Goose

      Humza Useless was pretty weak in his condemnation though I thought.

      Were I in his situation, I’d be spitting fury on TV about Israel’s actions. 6.000 bombs dropped as of yesterday evening, gawd knows how many now. A university destroyed plus lots of other vital civilian infrastructure, why? Any civilised country ,if attacked, would take out the leaders of Hamas’ military wing with precision strikes at a time of their choosing, not this collective punishment BS.

      He has a platform, he should use it!

      • DiggerUK

        Oh please Goose, stop dancing around your handbag, he had a platform, he used it, have the good grace to praise him for doing so.
        Let me quote him “the collective punishment (of Gaza) has to be condemned” Now stop making a fool of yourself…_

        • Goose

          No politician deserves praise for stating the obvious. For transparency, I start from a position of not being an admirer of Humza.

          I and others predicted on here that he’d be a disaster and so it’s proving judging by the recent by-election result and polling. It’s one thing to lose party support when the leader has principles and a strong support base, another thing altogether when the leader is disliked by all, and seen solely as an imposition of the previous leader.

          I honestly think the SNP are in existential trouble and this is coming at a time when independence support is still solid. It’s a truly ridiculous predicament when a Nationalist party can’t grab that low hanging fruit that is high levels of support for independence.

    • Phil Espin

      You’ve got to see the irony that the only “significant” U.K. politician in a leadership role calling out the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza is Scotland’s own. You have to sympathise with his personal family position as I sympathise with all the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in this celebration of western values. Not only is the hypocrisy clear for the rest of the world to see even the people of the west are increasingly seeing it too. There will be consequences.

  • Jack

    Clashes in the West Bank, many dead
    https://nitter.net/d00m777/status/1712874431691755608#m

    More than a dozen Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in the West Bank
    Death toll rises to 49 in the occupied West Bank

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/13/several-palestinians-killed-by-israeli-forces-in-occupied-west-bank

    The corrupt Mahmoud Abbas thought Israel just would pick on Gaza, he is naively putting trust in Israel as usual and does not realize that the same thing that happened there will sooner or later occur in the West Bank.

  • Goose

    Got to admire Israel’s media manipulation activities in some ways.

    Keeping nearly everyone in the US and some in the EU siding with Goliath and not David.

    • Allan Howard

      As Malcolm X said:

      “The media’s the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent.”

  • Cornudet

    Amidst several key achievements such as the Good Friday Agreement and the establishment of the National Minimum wage the Blair years saw two areas where no-one of a remotely rational or liberal mindset could possibly approve: illegal and unending wars abroad and a process of attrition against civil liberties at home. Indeed, the one could be argued to bode the other inasmuch as many of the draconian measures proposed by Blair, notably a national ID card scheme or massively extended powers to hold certain categories of suspect without charge, could only be countenanced at a time of conflict. Whether there was dark design behind Blair’s reckless rush into American led wars in order to justify the erosion of civil liberties can only be left to the individual conjecture

    Now we have the outlandish spectacle of Grant Schapps endorsing Israel’s command for the denizens of Gaza to evacuate large swaves of this overcrowded enclave notwithstanding that this may well be beyond all practicality and in defiance of international law, being akin to an injunction for a man to walk on the ceiling or else face being shot. No doubt this posture from our bankrupt government is intended to serve as a smokescreen behind which their own transgressions of international law, and any conception of human decency, can proceed, most notably that of deporting refugees to Rwanda

    • Laguerre

      Actually National ID cards would be useful. It’s about time we got over this stuff about an Englishman’s freedom. We don’t have any freedom, and the French find them very useful as evidence of identity. In France you have to apply for one; you are not forced to carry it, though you have have a problem if required to prove your identity if you don’t. Then we wouldn’t have the current Tory trick of requiring photo identity to vote, in order to discourage the poor from voting for the wrong party.

      • Fleur

        Argentina has National ID cards. It is true that they are useful – they are required for almost every “official” activity, from voting, opening a bank account, going to hospital, etc, and it is compulsory to have your card on you outside of the house.

        12 Dec 2018 (ie before the pandemia) the congress voted almost unanimously to make the official vaccination schedule compulsory for adults as well as children, and to refuse renewal of the ID card (and issue of passports etc) to those who do not comply. [Ley 27491] Which means that all vax dissidents, sometime in the next few years (as their IDs expire), will effectively become non-citizens.

        Beware of “convenience”. It is the gateway drug to enslavement.

        https://servicios.infoleg.gob.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/315000-319999/318455/norma.htm

  • Townsman

    You can go out in the streets of the UK with an Israeli flag and yell that you want every Palestinian to be cleansed from Gaza. That is not illegal. If you say the Palestinians have a right to resist their genocide, that is illegal.
    That appears to be a genuine analysis of the law in the UK, France and many other western countries.
    That is intended to terrify all of us. It will not work.

    Unfortunately, Craig, I think it will work – it is already working. The torrent of hatred and lies from all mass media and practically all politicians of both main parties sweeps the unthinking public along with it. Most people do not think logically; they go along with whichever “tribe” they identify with, whether it’s Tories or Labour.
    The politicians – Sunak, Starmer, Braverman – are intelligent enough, and well-informed enough, to know that they are spreading lies and hatred. They think that that’s the way to win elections, which apparently is all they care about.

    • Casual Observer

      I see the BBC are running an article that purports to clarify what exactly support for proscribed groups entails. Its all rather vague and woolly, and where the rubber meets the road, it will depend on what some constable decides at the time.

  • Carlyle Moulton

    There are few things sillier than saying killing civilians in war is a crime.

    All pragmatic soldiers know that killing civilians is necessary. If it is accidental it is called “collateral damage” but no soldier should be ashamed for killing a civilian for no reason other that he wants to or because prisoners are inconvenient.

    In Australia an investigation is proceeding into special forces soldiers killings of civilians in Afghanistan. Even if these killings happened the people to blame should not be the soldiers but the three leaders of the “Coalition of The Willing” Tony Blair, George W Bush & John Winston Howard all 3 of whom should be in prison cells in The Hague awaiting being hanged from the same gallows. War is between collective entities, nations or ethnic groups. It would be irrational to tell a man with a gun being attacked by a tiger that he is only allowed to shoot at the claws and teeth but not the heart or head because only the claws and teeth are combatants and the heart and head are civilians.

    Every colonial settler state is accompanied by a genocide. The genocide is not cruel but the failure to complete it is. Whether in Australia or Palestine the death of each indigenous descended human should be greeted with joy as that particular one is blissfully dead no longer in psychic agony because of marginalization and discrimination.

    Unfortunately few conquerors fulfill their moral responsibility but at least in Palestine the Zionists may have worked themselves up into such a lather of self righteous hate that they can complete their long desired “final solution to the Palestinian question” and maybe the West will provide the necessary support..

    The fact is that a particular civilian may be a former soldier, a future soldier, the mother of a future soldier. If a country is “Democratic” then all civilians are collectively culpable for the actions of their leaders whether we are talking about Israelis or Palestinians. An irreconcilable conflict exists in Palestine between two ethnic groups both of which self righteously claim to own the land, one group because God Almighty deeded it to an ancestor and the others because they are descended from the people who lived there in Roman times. It is a Jewish myth that all Jews were expelled in the first century AD, the Romans expelled enough to reduce the military potential to rebel and then numbers expanded again to what the land could support. The Palestinians are descended from Jews but converted to other religions and no doubt according to Zionists became apostates and lost any right to Abraham’s legacy. Any concession to the interests of one group are in conflict with the interests of the other.

    • Cabbage

      What tripe. Killing civilians is a crime, and violation of the most elementary laws of armed conflict.
      Genocide is a crime against humanity.

      The ZST is an Eastern European Terrorist group occupying Western Asia – the Western Asian Palestinians are the only people with a claim to Palestine.

      The Eastern European Terrorist group don’t become entitled to Western Asia due to support for a racist political ideology.

      • Bayard

        “What tripe. Killing civilians is a crime, and violation of the most elementary laws of armed conflict.
        Genocide is a crime against humanity.”

        You can say that until you are blue in the face but the realpolitik is, sadly, exactly as Carlyle Moulton puts it. If you can do it with impunity, and many countries have been doing these sort of things for many years with impunity, it’s not, in reality, a crime. It’s like the “crime”, in many juristictions, of taking your own life. How, precisely, do you punish someone who is dead?

        • Carlyle Moulton

          Bayard.

          Many of the ideas that infest human brains are ABSURD. “CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY” is one of the most absurd.

          “Humanity” if its meaning were derived from the meanings of of its component parts would represent behaviour typical of members of species homo sapiens, actions such as biased law enforcement, genocide, stealing from the poor, ……

          Inhumanity should mean behaviours not typical of humanity, such as mercy to a conquered people by the conquerors. The meaning of “humanity” and its opposite “inhumanity” are 180 degrees out of phase with their “correct” meanings. With similar out of phase relationships with many pairs of opposites how is clear thinking remotely possible?

          Wars are between collectives and civilians are essential components that support their collectives’ military power. Thus the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the fire bombing of Dresden and the killing of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq by Australian, British and US forces were righteous actions. The accused special operations soldiers should receive medals not prosecution. So also should the psychologists and interrogators of the CIA Black Sites and of Guantanamo Bay and the torturers of Abu Graib.

          Do you understand me now?

    • Allan Howard

      I think what it amounted to is that they wanted to give Israel/Israelis a taste of their own medicine, and I don’t mean just the physical aspect of it, but the mental and emotional as well.

  • Townsman

    Let’s remember that what is happening in Gaza now, and what has been happening in the West Bank for the last 50+ years, is action of the Israeli government, not all of its citizens. The Israeli government – just like our government – lies to its citizens to whip up hatred, which has the same effect on the unthinking section of its population as our government’s lies and propaganda on the unthinking section of our population.

    Some of the most effective voices, over the years, for humanity, peace and justice have been Jewish Israelis. Google for Miko Peled’s youtube talks, for example.

    Good people are to be found in every community. Unfortunately, “democracy” driven by money, advertising, and gutter media seems to bring a different kind of person to the top.

      • Cabbage

        There is clearly a difference between all Israeli people and the members of the ZST. 20% of 1948 Israeli consists of the Palestinian people who escaped the ethnic cleansing and genocide of 1947-49.

        The people who are legitimately culpable are settlers and soldiers, the political establishement of the ZST are settlers and Soldiers.
        The ZST as a terrorist organisation – the settlers in the military outpost surrounding Gaza enforcing apartheid on Palestine.

      • Bramble

        Israel uses proportional representation to elect its governments. It seems to do no better than first past the post when it comes to electing principled, rational, law abiding governments.

      • Townsman

        Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East so all Israeli’s are guilty for the acts of their government.

        The UK is a democracy, so the million Brits who demonstrated in London against Blair’s 2003 Iraq war are just as guilty as Blair for that war? I don’t quite understand why. Your brain does not seem to work in the same way as mine.

        • Carlyle Moulton

          Townman.

          Townsman.

          You are correct, my brain is seriously dysfunctional One day I hope to wake up and realize that I am in in fact an extraterrestrial alien xenologist with 12 tentacles and multiple eyes here to study homo sapiens. Believing that I am a member of a disgusting species almost entirely made up of religious and national chauvinist hypocrites is painful. However I do not think my pain is in any way equivalent too that of a Palestinian resident in Palestine or as I prefer to call it “ZOP+X” which stands for Zionist Occupied Palestine Plus Extras the extras being some of South Lebanon, The Gaza Strip and The Golan Heights.

          I rejoice for each Palestinian civilian or terrorist killed by the Israelis or by suicide as that one is now free of the chronic pain of being a member of a defeated occupied race who remains both defeated and occupied.

  • Pnyx

    Once again, one hundred percent agreement. Where is the difference to China, Russia, India, countries where a publicly expressed deviation from the officially approved line may lead to unpleasant contacts with repressive organs and the judiciary?

    Those who dehumanise their opponents – ‘they are animals’ – are entering fascist waters. What the Netanyahu government wants to do in Gaza is reminiscent of the storming of the Warsaw ghetto. In the case of Gaza there is a huge danger that this action will provoke an expansion of the war, which could eventually set the entire region and more in flames.

    • Brianp

      Your Warsaw ghetto analogy is correct, pnyx. So would any of those now offering their unquestioned support and approval to the Israeli government to carry out their ‘cleansing’ operations in Gaza consider that the occupants of the Warsaw ghetto were “terrorists” and the Germans were justified in wiping them out? Of course not. Their hyprocrisy over the current situation is nauseating.

  • Peter 3

    The French government has not only banned pro-Palestinian demonstrations. It has threatened to deport “foreign nationals” who take part in them. That includes a large number of people of Arab descent living in France, including many who were born in France and can’t speak more than a few words of Arabic, but who simply haven’t been allowed to have French citizenship because their parents or grandparents came from Algeria.

    It is quite possible that the French government plans to start a civil war, because I can tell you that this fascistic threat by Emmanuel Macron’s government is NOT going to be received well in the banlieues, and they know that.

  • AG

    a translation of a short interview with Wieland Hoban fom “Jewish Voices for a Just Peace in the Near East” in Germany:

    I post the complete text, since right now this is the max you will get in an interview in the press, like with this leftist paper “junge Welt” (A big Assange supporter).
    However no deeper understanding of the stuctural causes and the very long history which began well before 16 years ago as we all know. Online outlets are better but they are still not respected enough. Print still rules for the elites.

    And it ends on the usual note. Which is odd in this context because AfD voted for the unanimous support of a militay response by Israel in the German Bundestag. So why on earth does he drag in that “we all are threatened by the far right/fascists in Germany?”.

    (I would like to remind Mr. Hoben that it was refugee camps with Turks, Arabs and Africans which were targeted by Neonazi assaults in the last 30 years burning those places down, not Jewish institutions which in contrast are under security surveillance 24/7)
    But well, who wants to complicate things, right.

    https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/461028.krieg-gegen-gaza-netanjahu-braucht-hamas-als-spaltkeil.html
    (and yes its deepl.com so forgive the oddities)

    “Netanyahu needs Hamas as a splitting wedge”.
    FRG criminalizes Palestine solidarity. Israel collectively punishes people in Gaza. An interview with Wieland Hoban
    Interview: Jakob Reimann

    Q: Since the first news of the Hamas raid on Israel on October 7, events have been tumbling. The Israeli authorities were apparently completely taken by surprise. How could this happen?

    A: There is information that there had been previous warnings from Egyptian intelligence to the Israeli government about an imminent attack. However, Netanyahu ignored them. Moreover, the extremist Israeli government had pooled virtually all Israeli security forces in the West Bank to protect settlers there who were committing pogroms. So there were hardly any soldiers at the border fence with Gaza. Netanyahu has underestimated Hamas. He has openly admitted that he often communicates with them and even sends them funds through indirect channels. Netanyahu needs Hamas as a splitting wedge to prevent a unified Palestinian leadership. He always thought he could control the situation and manipulate Hamas officials. It was this arrogance with which he put the lives of his own people at risk.

    So did Netanyahu think business as usual could go on forever?

    He assumed that every now and then a few missiles would come, then we would bomb, and then everything would be quiet again. He thinks he is a king who has everything in his hands. But he can neither control the extremist politicians in his government nor the situation in Gaza.

    As early as 2015, the UN warned that the Gaza Strip would become “uninhabitable” by 2020. What was the humanitarian situation in Gaza before the Hamas attack?

    Gaza has been blockaded by Israel for 16 years. The blockade has drastically restricted the import of everything, whether it’s food, medicine, or building materials. Half of the population is underage. People have to struggle to even feed themselves. Fishermen are shot at if they want to get to the high-yield areas in the sea. Sewage treatment plants have been destroyed by Israel over the years. The sick can hardly be kept alive. There are shortages on every corner. Gaza has long been a place of disaster, a place of suffering.

    To what extent will the Israeli response make the situation worse?

    The entire Gaza Strip is now being punished for this attack. Electricity and water are being cut off. Hospitals have generators, but they are also running out of fuel. The Israeli government, which calls the people of Gaza “human animals” (quoting Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, jW), wants to commit targeted mass murder.

    “Netanyahu bears responsibility for the war between Israel and Gaza,” headlined the most influential Israeli daily Haaretz in its editorial on Sunday. In the FRG, such a headline would probably be unthinkable. Will the debate space in this country narrow further?

    We can already see that. At the moment, demonstrations are being banned all over Germany. At a school in Berlin-Neukölln, a teacher beat a student for waving a Palestine flag. It is a mood that is as racist as we have rarely seen. All of this has to be seen in the context of the fact that the AfD has been at more than 20 percent in polls for months. Palestinians are placed under general suspicion and have to fear being denounced every time they make a statement. Several broadcasters terminated their cooperation with freelance journalist Malcolm Ohanwe because he tried to contextualize the situation in Israel and Gaza.

    How does the war affect Jewish life in Germany?

    Many Jews in Germany feel threatened and cannot face the question of Israeli responsibility for Palestinian violence at all. For many, what happened over the weekend immediately brings the Holocaust to mind. At the moment, it is even more difficult to arouse understanding among them for the suffering in Palestine. Many Jews, but also many Palestinians, live in fear. The truth is that we are all threatened by the same people, by the right-wingers and fascists who are stronger than ever in the FRG and who stir up hatred against all minorities.

  • AG

    Now Munich too of course.
    City Mayor has forbidden pro-Palestine protest and flags.
    And get this:
    300 protesters gathered in spite of the decree.
    Met by 350 cops.

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchen-pro-palaestinensische-demos-kvr-verbot-polizei-1.6287149

    The argumentation is fallible as it is led by disregard for the UN rulings.

    The city administration claims that the protest with 300 people presents a possible threat to public order.

    During a 2000-man pro-Israel protest in front of the synagogue Munich mayor Dieter Reiter (SPD):

    “had already announced the ban on Thursday evening at an event on Jakobsplatz, where about 2,000 visitors showed their solidarity with Israel after the terrorist attack by Hamas. The district administration department now created the legal basis. “I thank the administration for the fact that from now on it is clear that we will prohibit such protest in Munich,” Reiter said. “We will not tolerate incitement against Israel, against Jews or calls for violence against our Jewish citizens or Jewish institutions.”

    Again: omission over omission over omission. And unlike Ukraine even UN ruling is crystal-clear.
    Naturally the public order and smearing argument is a simple legal work-around to avoid being called out for respecting UN resolutions against Israel.

    An this is going on all over Europe.

    • Casual Observer

      The man is an idiot! The critical mass of communities that are likely to be pished off enough over Israeli actions, to the extent that they’ll get out on to the street, has in Germany, France, and also the UK, reached the point where the decrees of local potentates or national politicians may well go unheeded.

      That will explain the sphinctal dilation being exhibited? It may have made sense if the orders banned protest on behalf of either group, and it remains to be seen if those supporting Israel will refrain from mass public demonstrations of support.

      On the other hand, if Worzel Gummidge were to put on his cynical head, he might suggest that civil disturbance arising from events in the Holy Land are just what governments faced with a period of bad bets and predictions might want. 🙂

  • Crispa

    Presumably it is because of Elon Musk that Alexander Dugin is allowed to echo the gist of this article. Some might like the irony. Suspect bits lost in translation.

    “The West goes openly totalitarian. You have to be pro-Ukraine otherwise you’re gonna die. You have to be pro-Israel otherwise you’re gonna be jailed. Welcome to the new democracy rules. You are complete slave. Enjoy it”.

  • AG

    “Legendary” reporter Amira Hass with a text:

    She suggests the Gaza attack was made possible because IDF has been focused on protecting and supporting Israeli settlers in a new major wave of expulsion of Palestinians from the West Bank which appears to be the real target of Israeli operations in getting rid of the Palestinians.

    So everyone talks about Gaza nobody looks at the West Bank.

    “Israeli Settlers Aren’t Pausing The Expulsion And Dispossession In The West Bank
    Israeli security forces neglected the defense of communities near the Gaza Strip because they have been preoccupied with defending the settlers in the West Bank, their land seizures, and their rites of stone and altar worshiping.”

    https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/israeli-settlers-arent-pausing-the-expulsion-and-dispossession-in-the-west-bank/

    re: West Bank:
    “(…)The lack of attention has allowed the settlers and their enforcement bodies, official (the military and the police) and semi-official (the settlements’ security officers and right-wing volunteers acting as escorts), to escalate their attacks against Palestinian herders and farmers with a clear goal: to expel more communities from their land and homes.

    Some proof of the volatility of the situation came on Wednesday, when three residents – two of them teenagers – of the village of Qusra, south east of Nablus, were killed by live fire and eight others wounded. Village residents say the shooters were masked settlers who entered the village on three ATVs. Later, when clashes erupted following the funerals, another teenager was killed in Qusra, whether by the army or others still unclear.

    A Palestinian WhatsApp group documenting settler attacks in real time, especially in the area north of Ramallah, shared minute-by-minute reports on the events in Qusra. This information made its way to the news in Israel. But other incidents, which do not end up in casualties, did not. Also on Wednesday, for example, there were reports of settlers shooting at farmers working in their land in the village of Marda southwest of Nablus.
    (…)
    The main roads are almost completely devoid of Palestinian-owned cars. Even those who can find a way out of the towns won’t risk going on the road.

    One of the settlers’ most strident goals is to make Palestinian vehicles vanish from the West Bank’s main roads. They sometimes implement this mission by blocking access roads into and out of towns.

    At this tense moment, the lockdown on Palestinian towns and the absence of Palestinian traffic on main roads make it easier for the military to control the area. And as a byproduct, they actualize the religious Zionist leaders’ open with and plan of making the Palestinians disappear.
    (…)”

    • Peter 3

      The calling of settlers on the West Bank “settlers” whereas settlers in territories occupied by the regime before 1967 (or even in 1967, if we are talking about East Jerusalem), or kibbutzniks, don’t get called settlers, is an Israeli propaganda success.

      Zionism has literally always been about settlement, and settlement continues on both sides of the wall, with active support from the state, and indeed planning by the state, also on both sides of the wall.

      If a kibbutz for example is not a settlement, then what the hell else is it?

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