The UK and the US are both sending military assistance to Israel to commit a calculated and deliberate act of genocide, which is already underway.
Over 500 children have been killed in Gaza in the last week and over 2,000 maimed, many with life changing injuries. Nobody can claim they do not know what is already happening or what is about to unfold. The cutting off of food and water to Gaza is a major international crime, which the western proponents of the “rules based order” universally refuse to condemn.
In both the UK and the US there can be no more stark illustration of the lack of any kind of meaningful democracy, than the fact that there is no major political party that opposes the genocide – despite massive public opposition.
The bought and paid for media and political class in the west are extremely nervous, throughout the western world. Now they have come to the final genocide for which zionism has always aimed, they face a good deal of popular resistance.
Throughout Europe there is a massive gap between the zionist unanimity of the politicians and the much greater understanding of the Palestinian situation among the general public. Tellingly the response by the zionist political class has been a wave of outright fascist suppression.
In France, Macron has made all pro-Palestinian demonstrations illegal, but as so often the French people are not standing for that kind of authoritarianism.
In the UK, the police have adopted the cowardly tactic of arresting a couple of individuals, one in Brighton and one in Manchester, for pro-Palestinian demonstration. Under Tony Blair’s notorious draconian “anti-terror” legislation, they could face up to 14 years in prison.
The young man in Manchester was arrested on the precise site of the famous “Peterloo massacre”, which generations of British people were taught at school was a terrible crime in breach of the rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Let the irony of that set in.
You can go out in the streets of the UK with an Israeli flag and yell that you want every Palestinian to be cleansed from Gaza. That is not illegal. If you say the Palestinians have a right to resist their genocide, that is illegal.
That appears to be a genuine analysis of the law in the UK, France and many other western countries.
That is intended to terrify all of us. It will not work.
The European Commission has been ferociously zionist and gung-ho for this Palestinian genocide. It displayed the Israeli flag on its Berlaymont headquarters. It has taken a side in the most ferocious way.
It is therefore deeply sinister that the European Commission is actively working to shut down pro-Palestinian information and comment on social media. The European Commission has written to all major social media organisations and is able to threaten them with massive fines if they do not remove information of which the European Union disapproves.
Following the terrorist attacks by Hamas against 🇮🇱, we have indications of X/Twitter being used to disseminate illegal content & disinformation in the EU.
Urgent letter to @elonmusk on #DSA obligations ⤵️ pic.twitter.com/avMm1LHq54
— Thierry Breton (@ThierryBreton) October 10, 2023
The notion is plainly nonsense that through the fog of war the European Commission – which is 100% parti pris – is qualified to say what information is true and what information is false, and what comment is legitimate.
Thierry Breton, the European Commissioner in charge of this operation, is a former chief executive of electronic companies – and defence contractors – Atos and Thomson. He has no genuine interest in freedom of speech, and is engaged in a process of silencing dissent for military aims, which is quite simply fascist.
We are witnessing almost all western governments deliberately facilitating massacre, ethnic cleansing and genocide. We are witnessing almost all western governments turning on their own people to crush dissent at that complicity in genocide.
This feels not so much like the week that western democracy died, as the week it was impossible any longer to deny that western democracy died some time ago.
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I was listening to this fascinating episode of “Ask the inspector” with Scott Ritter, in which he debates with IDF veteran (Arkady Itkin).
It includes an analysis of the origins of Zionism (inc. reviewing the role of David Ben-Gurion), considers significant historical events in the region including the importance of the Nakba, reviews the interests of the multiple actors in the region, and discusses possible paths leading to a peaceful and non-peaceful solution. His latest substack article, a substantial work full of historical detail and events from his lived experience in Israel, covers the same subject matter.
Ask the Inspector episode 106
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mELJQKCcsHA
Substack
https://www.scottritterextra.com/p/why-i-no-longer-stand-with-israel
One revelation for me concerned the origin of the kibbutz, which Ritter describes in the following way:
“[T]he creation of the Nahal program … combined military service with agricultural work. The Nahal forces would form a garrison, which would then be transformed into a Kibbutz, which would serve as the first line of defense against any future Arab attack on Israel. In 1951, the very first of these Nahal settlements, Nahlayim Mul Aza, was established on the border with the Gaza Strip. More followed, as the Nahal project sought to surround Gaza with these fortress-settlements. In 1953, Nahlayim Mul Aza made its transition from a military outpost to civilian Kibbutz and was renamed Nahal Oz.”
Ritter refers to the Kibbutz attacks in the show also, observing that the kibbutzim are not as innocent as they are being portrayed in the media. He describes them as agro-military hybrid outposts, with their own defence forces, with occupants who sleep beside their armoured vest, helmet and M16, surrounding the Palestinian areas.
Can anyone tell me.. respectfully, has there been any information provided by official sources concerning the military status of the adult Israeli casualties and prisoners taken from the kibbutzim? There is an important difference between unarmed untrained civilians killed while they sleep, to an attack on families of a trained military, including active IDF combatants, who could be expected to put up fierce resistance.
The only genocide was committed by Hamas in Israel. If Hamas hides its military assets among civilians the only guilt for their death belongs to Hamas. No-one can ask that Israel not defend its children , but you know this. You simply hate Jews and want them all dead. Admit it!
The United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) has explicitly affirmed the right of Palestinians to resist Israel’s military occupation, including through armed struggle. This right was affirmed in the context of the right to self-determination of all peoples under foreign and colonial rule. Some of the most relevant UN resolutions on this matter include: UNGA Resolution 3314 (1974) and UNGA Resolution 37/43 (1982).
The civilised world condemns Israel. Citizens will no longer remain silent, fearful that those tired tropes of anti-semitism will be used against them, now the Zionist bloodlust to commit genocide is revealed for all to see.
A path to peace is the only viable solution.
Pretty weak and wankey argument to say “You simply hate Jews and want them all dead. Admit it”. Come up with facts, context and historical evidence otherwise limp back to the primary school dunce table.
The historical record clearly indicates that the kibbutzim of the 40’s were storing quite large amounts of weaponry from the British forces, in often very imaginary and effective ways.
now, whether they still serve the purpose employed by the Haganah back then, is doubtful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mELJQKCcsHA&t=520s
CasualObserver, thanks for your comment. It is difficult to engender trust on ‘doubts’ unfortunately, when the topic of Israel arises. New posters suddenly appear on this forum, proclaiming that everyone hates jews, or referring affectionately to ‘Bibi’ in their replies to other posts, before disappearing again. It must be exhausting to police the internet in this manner, and I tip my imaginary hat to those people.
Ritter gives a compelling description (with exact timeline on the link above for viewers), based on his lived experience operating in Israel, and is at odds with your doubt. Does it make human suffering any less real if the Israeli kibbutzim casualties included military personnel including a defence force? No, of course not. Does it impact the narrative? Yes. In armed struggle against an occupier, military targets are legitimate under international law, and civilian targets are not.
Should we be cautious as readers, of being manipulated by emotional stories in the western media, that speak in the currency of revenge? When the consequence will be either genocide or massive forced resettlement of a people without the right to return? Of course we should. Facts matter.
The period Ritter operated in Israel (mid 90s) are detailed in his substack. He says:
“[F]rom 1994 until 1998, I travelled extensively to Israel, where I worked with the Israeli Defense Force’s (IDF) intelligence organization, AMAN, to make sure Iraq would never again be able to threaten Israel with either SCUD missiles carrying conventional high explosive, chemical, biological, or nuclear warheads. I briefed Israeli generals, diplomats, and politicians.”
Israel currently has great support at a governmental level, as evidenced by the messages from world leaders, and the gestures displaying the Israeli flag on government buildings across the globe. Level heads would observe that this good-will and political currency is not really limitless; despite what foreign politicians profess on camera.
Kibbutzim continue to have military trained forces embedded, correctly described by Ritter right down to the weapons they carry. According to international law you could argue they are legitimate military targets for an oppressed people. The innocent civilians killed by Hamas that day, by the same measure, constituted a war crime.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/when-hamas-attacked-this-israeli-kibbutz-fought-back-and-won/ar-AA1indxs
From the article, 12 Israelis were able to hold their ground militarily against “two dozen” armoured Hamas fighters:
Kaplan rushed home to grab his armoured vest, helmet and M16 rifle, then drove off to check another gate on the northwest corner.
…
Porat, an Israeli army veteran and one of the volunteers in Mefalsim’s security force, ran out his door with an M16 and hustled to a street lined with houses on one side and a kibbutz gate on the other.
…
Levi, 48, the head of security and emergency management for Intel in Israel.. a former Israeli soldier
…
No Mefalsim residents were killed or taken hostage, protected by a dozen residents, many of them former Israeli soldiers, who had prepared for years to defend the kibbutz.
If you’re going to cite international law, do so impartiality and accept that Hamas’s murdering and torturing of civilians is also a war crime, as is the use of one’s own civilians or enemy hostages as human shields. Agreed? Call it ‘asymmetric warfare’ if it eases your conscience, but it remains inhumane, anti-ethical and illegal, and only brutalizes conflict further, increasing death and suffering all round.
There’s no doubt that Israel’s infliction of, effectively, apartheid on a population that it holds hostage in Gaza (surrounded by fences and controlling its land and sea borders, air space, water, food supplies, electricity etc.) is anti-ethical and counter-productive to its own interests. Indiscriminate and disproportionate shelling is worse still. However, what’s missing in much of the pro-Palestinian argument is the long-term and geopolitical motives of Hamas and its international backers. Even if Israel accepted, say, a one-state solution and equal treatment of all citizens, what is the likelihood that there would still be attacks on the Jewish population for simply existing and/or living in Palestine/Israel? Both religions have their extremists who demand the complete nonexistence of the other in the same region of the planet. Both these extremes are radicalized by violence from the other side. Israel does have far more power to be able to improve the situation of Palestinians and thus itself but has chosen not to. True. But there are also reasonably powerful state and non-state actors who would rather see the instability and violence continue. Hence I find the one-sided partiality against the Israeli people here quite astonishingly naive, at best. And the lack of recognition of the deliberate brutality of Hamas’s attack on a people who have a history of pogroms and genocide against them is truly astonishing, and the lack of empathy simply terrible. It’s possible to have empathy for the civilians and even many of the less bloodthirsty combatants on both sides. None of this will be settled by war and Hamas’s decision to attack Israel, assisted by who knows who, will entail a terrible price on Palestinian people in general. Not the path to take.
“Even if Israel accepted, say, a one-state solution and equal treatment of all citizens, what is the likelihood that there would still be attacks on the Jewish population for simply existing and/or living in Palestine/Israel?”
Very small, considering that Muslims, Jews and Christians of all denominations were living peacefully alongside each other until the European colonists arrived to stir everything up.
If Israel wished to defend its children from the Hamas & Palestinian Islamic Jihad fanatics, Mr Yaffe, it should have installed a far more secure, and properly manned, border fence. This will come as little (if any) comfort to the families of the Israelis who have been killed, but I think Yahweh has been looking after His putative chosen people by sending the Hamas & PIJ leaderships mad enough to give Israel its own 9/11 (x 10) wake-up call – whilst opting themselves to commit collective suicide by IDF/Mossad – rather than waiting 10 or 15 years and busying themselves with small arms & ammo procurement and production, before unleashing an event like last Saturday (x 1000). That would have been existential for Israel, because it would have essentially been Holocaust 2.0.
you’re asking Palestinians not to defend their children. not to defend their homes. not to defend their lives.
Solomon Yaffe, are you stupid? Sounds like you are. The only genocide is, without a shadow of doubt, being carried out by Israel. It’s not new. They have been applying a slow death to Arabs for decades, stealing their land, bullying them. I’ve been there seen the turnstiles they have to pass through just to go from one street to the next, all the while young Israeli soldiers barely out of school sat in their look out post with their gunsights trained on any person who passes, including me. Palestinians are not allowed passports. Their visitors are restricted. They are prisoners. Israel claims religion, but lacks the basic tenets.
The sensible Israelis know all this.
They know their ultra right wing fascist government is evil. The next generation will kick them out and that’s why they are rushing through this ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Go to church and beg for forgiveness, and promise to love your neighbour as your scriptures tell you to.
Israeli Teenager Who SURVIVED Hamas Attack DEMANDS Israel STOP Bombing Gaza! (YouTube, 9m 27s) – Katie Halper, 15 Oct 2023
Israeli Teenager Who SURVIVED Hamas Attack DEMANDS Israel STOP Bombing Gaza! (YouTube, 9m 27s) – Katie Halper, 15 Oct 2023
I support you, Shlomo Yaffe, as do most fair minded and humane British people I believe. And fair play for having the courage to enter this seething bear pit of a forum. I don’t accuse people of anti-semitism lightly but some forms of anti-zionism are so extreme, a-historic and deranged that it amounts to a distinction without a difference. Plenty of evidence of that from Craig Murray and his fan boys here.
the only fair-minded (and legitimate) attitude toward apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide is to go around telling everyone it’s “humane” and that if they disagree with you then they are “anti-semites”. (which you “don’t accuse people of lightly”).
sounds reasonable and fair-minded !
“The only genocide was committed by Hamas in Israel”.
There is no need to read any further: that initial statement is ridiculous. A century ago Palestine was mainly inhabited by, er, Palestinians. There were a few Jews, certainly, as there are almost everywhere, but Palestine was the land of the Palestinians.
Then hordes of Jews descended on Palestine from the four quarters of the Earth and took it over, killing anyone who resisted them – from the owners of houses and farms to British soldiers and policemen trying to implement the British mandate to keep order.
So how on earth could Palestinians have committed “genocide” against Jews, when the Palestinians were there all along and the Jews came from other continents?
You might as well accuse the Australian or American aborigines of committing “genocide” against the white settlers. Did Black South Africans commit “genocide” against their White oppressors?
If colonialist invaders want to avoid violence, all they have to do is pack up their goods and return whence they came.
“No, I’m not putting money in the tin to fund cancer research”
“Ah, that proves you’re in favour of cancer”
BBC Radio 4’s World This Weekend had an interview with Mohammad Nazzal of Hamas.
He said that Hamas would release civilian hostages and negotiate a prisoner swap for military hostages.
He also said that, in relation to peace negotiations, and referring to Israel, “… if they want peace, we want peace”.
Make of it what you will. Listen from 32:50 – https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001rgx4
Hamas must widen their goals, if any palestinians are released from israeli jail which in itself is unlikely, the released ones will only be attacked by a israel drone or face the risk of assassination anyway as soon as they reach Gaza. Hamas need bigger goals, like triggering a peace effort – a reminder of the occupation, renewed talks, pressure against the international community do something to help them.
That is about a believable as the Hamas claim that of didn’t target old people and children in their invasion of Israel,
Israeli Teenager Who SURVIVED Hamas Attack DEMANDS Israel STOP Bombing Gaza! (YouTube, 9m 27s) – Katie Halper, 15 Oct 2023
The central point in the unfairness of this conflict is the asymmetric nature of the power dynamic, clearly demonstrated by the disproportionate number of arab casualties shown in this graphic from statista: https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
Do not confuse higher casualties with right and wrong. Hamas is a terrorist group of profoundly ISIS style murderers who killed children and then hide behind their own children. The fact that they seek to maximize their own casualties so they then can get the world to put pressure on Israel doesn’t make them less criminal. This is pretty obvious and I don’t understand how anyone with a brain in their skull could suggest that disproportionate number of casualties has anything to do with who is the criminal and who is the innocent party defending themselves?
Why was my comment deleted?
[ Mod: As explained in an annotation attached to that comment, accusations of trolling are contrary to the Fair Play rule:
“Play the ball, not the man. Address arguments, not people. Do not impugn the motives of others … No taunting.” ]
Shlomo
You are justifying murder with that argument, watch this video of an american jew condemning just this racist reasoning:
https://nitter.net/hnozetawi97/status/1712926560804597800#m
Jack.
My policy is not to argue with crazy people, you can never win. They’ll go away if ignored.
i’m figuring the innocent party is mostly comprised of people shut up in an open air concentration camp, who can’t get enough food, enough water, live under constant threat of being blown up in reprisal for something they didn’t do, can’t get good jobs to provide security for their families, see their homes stolen by fanatic settlers under the protection of Israel’s law and the IDF.
by the way, I’m reading of some IDF refusals to fight. I don’t think every Jewish person in Israel agrees with the way it treats Palestinians, although the social pressure to keep their head down must be immense, in the frenzy of the moment.
Shlomo: “Hamas is a terrorist group of profoundly ISIS style murderers who killed children and then hide behind their own children.
What would be the point of ‘hiding’ behind children, when the IDF have long proven their delight in killing children themselves?
A child to the IDF is hardly a shield – it would be more like a target!
S: I don’t understand how anyone with a brain in their skull could suggest that disproportionate number of casualties has anything to do with who is the criminal and who is the innocent party defending themselves? ”
Indeed, so you’ll still be scratching your head about who exactly was the more guilty party during the Warsaw Uprising, no doubt. A situation with remarkable analogies to the Nazis and the emiserated hemmed in victims of that ghetto/ open-air prison. I’ll leave you to work out which group represents which.
You need to look in a mirror.
We’re seeing waves of ‘Yellow journalism’ in the west, preparing us for Nakba II (Arabic: النكبة). The permanent displacement of Gazans into Egypt through the Rafah crossing, hence why Israel isn’t proposing ‘safe’ enclaves in northern Gaza. What is the Arab and wider Muslim world doing to get cast-iron guarantees from the US and EU that they won’t accept it? This is just ethnic cleansing masquerading as a fight against terrorism.
Was this Netanyahu’s evil plan all along?
Israeli “Minister Gideon Sa’ar said in an interview with Channel 12 News that the Gaza Strip ‘must be smaller at the end of the war….Whoever starts a war against Israel must lose territory.'” He seems to be suggesting mass expulsion from that land. From https://haaretz.com
Saying the quiet part loud. Reckon Blinken doesn’t know the real intention here?
Goose
They know the intention and support it and who is going to stop Israel from carrying it out? They have the west with them they have the corrupt arab leaders with them. Who is going to do anything? No one, they have free rein now. It is obvious what is going to happen now: Israel is going to invade and push palestinians to the south; sooner or later Egypt would open their borders and the Palestinian issue is physically out of Israel. Or Gaza will simply become an even smaller state, meanwhile Israel will take over the north of Gaza, remodelling it to fit incoming jewish settlers = annexation, just like in the West bank.
Ethnic cleansing is certainly the goal and it will be accepted by the west. It is already accepted and even supported.
Jack.
Certainly not the UK:
James Cleverley and David Lammy hug each other after discussing Israel-Palestine: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/james-cleverley-israel-palestine-david-lammy-b2429987.html
Anyone surprised? I mean, they both work for the same people and it sure as hell isn’t the UK electorate. Did they know about the upcoming Israeli land grab? Gazans having to swap their homes and possessions for tents and camp fires? If so, it highlights how utterly broken both our unrepresentative FPTP electoral system is, and the British elite’s misanthropic disdain for democratic transparency.
Guardian now saying the quiet part loud. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/15/rafah-border-crossing-could-egypt-open-it-to-fleeing-palestinians
As sick as it seems there is method in Egypt’s seemingly irrational decision. Egypt knows these people will never be allowed to return. And surely Israel can’t slaughter 1.4 million civilians, 40% of whom are children, then claim big bad Hamas made them do it, can they? No one in the world will accept that as a justification.
CM spoke correctly about Qatar hosting Hamas’ leadership. The only reason they do it is at the US’s request. The alternative being Iran hosting them. In Qatar the US can spy on them and do, that’s what stinks about this – did the US and the UK know about the upcoming Hamas action?
We know how closely Palestine is monitored.
We know a Surprise attack on the scale that happened is impossible.
We know the attack could not go on for so long before a response unless the normal response was not allowed.
So we know the attack on Israel was allowed to happen.
But unless this was a mass suicide attack those attacking also knew it would be allowed.
So who organised the attack? was it secretly funded and organised by Israel?
A big gamble by Netanyahu if he knew in advance. But maybe he did not know?
So now Israel wants to split what is left of Palestine in two. To push the north into the south and take over the north.
As with Korea, Cyprus, Vietnam and many other countries. Divide and conquer.
The West supports Israel and will say how regrettable the loss of life is in Palestine.
“”I weep for you,” the Walrus said:
“I deeply sympathize.”
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.
“O Oysters,” said the Carpenter,
“You’ve had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?’
But answer came there none–
And this was scarcely odd, because
They’d eaten every one.”
Everyone,
Take a look at this piece from the Jimmy Dore show (but the host is, unfortunately, not Jimmy himself), interviewing Norman Finkelstein: Gaza, Israel & The Hamas Attacks.
Probably most of the regulars here will know who Norman Finkelstein is, but for those who don’t, he is Jewish, a son of Holocaust survivors, and probably the best, most meticulous scholar of the Israel-Palestine conflict there is today. His great value is that he combines impeccable, painstaking, scholarship and great intelligence with a burning passion about the torment of the Palestinians, especially Gaza.
I don’t normally watch the Jimmy Dore show (I used to, but there are far too many claims on my time nowadays), and nor do I normally watch long videos, and this one is 1 hour, 50 mins long. But in my opinion it’s worth every one of the 110 minutes you will spend watching it.
An article from Sy Hersh.
Which reads like the clearing out of Northern Gaza then the flattening of it, the Zionist high command doesn’t trust its IDF foot soldiers to go toe-to-toe with Hamas in clearing out remaining buildings, this hesitation comes from the IDF finding it quite tricky at times to defend settlers and their properties than come under attack from the Palestinian people.
So once its flattened, 5,000 pound US bombs known as bunker busters or JDAM’s will be used on areas where they think Hamas and its weapons are stored.
An Israeli insider said the same process will take place in the South of Gaza.
https://nitter.net/conzmoleman/status/1713357732164632773#m
Maybe the Zionists have done a deal with Egypt to house the oppressed Palestinians in the desert.
“There are reports that the US administration is attempting to pay off the Egyptian government to host a “tent city” of up to 1.1 million Palestinians from Gaza in the Sinai Desert.”
https://nitter.net/Lowkey0nline/status/1713500330950844789#m
https://nitter.net/conzmoleman/status/1713357732164632773#m
“Israeli President Isaac Herzog claims no one is innocent in the Gaza Strip including civilians.”
https://nitter.net/simonateba/status/1713093224128983416#m
This false statement allows the Zionists to murder innocent women and children.
I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that west act so brazenly insensitive, this total support by the west for Israel is the reason why the Middle East hates us and this new support goes beyond the earlier support for Israel past decades, this is the type of actions by the west that always end with a backlash. 9/11 was directly connected to the american support of israeli crimes:
Motives for the September 11 attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks#Support_of_Israel_by_United_States
Why is every western state play along with this? How can they believe support for ethnic cleansing will cool things down in the Middle east and/or will benefit the west?
Have they already forgot about ISIS, do not doubt that ISIS 2.0 will not pop up after this.
Total support only of the power elites. There is very little organic support for Israel among regular British people, who overwhelming recognise the crimes of apartheid and the injustices meted out to Palestine. How many Israeli flags or Israel solidarity demos appeared even at the height of the establishment propaganda assault? Zero. Everything pro-Israel is enforced by the politicians and media via Israel’s many lobby groups.
Unfortunately I cannot agree. Every MSM in the collective west give support to Israel, same goes for every, left to right political mainstream parties with only varying degrees.
New poll: Americans strongly support Israel, but there are generational and racial divides
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll
People in majority have unfortunately no knowledge about this conflict, they believe what media tells them or the hateful social media that is, tell them..
If anything that poll reveals the manufacturing of consent isn’t working, even in the US.
The real issue is pro-Israel sentiment, which is wildly overrepresented in the media. Whether it’s by chance or design, who knows? People of the Jewish faith dominate political discussion and broadsheet newspaper opinion columns. I’m not suggesting this is by some grand design, I simply don’t know.
Nevertheless, it is rather odd, is it not, that such a relatively small demographic in the UK (according to census data) 250,000 people, disproportionately control our news filling both editorial and presentation roles. Nearly all the BBC’s big political presenters are Jewish : Nick Robinson, Emily Maitlis; Jo Coburn, Laura Kuenssberg , Mark Urban, Emma Barnett. And all gave Corbyn absolute hell over the bogus antisemitism allegations in 2019.
Goose
Yes there is no doubt there is an ethnically based biased, in my view it does not explain everything but in part.
But I assume that the downfall of the left and the rising of the right-wing movement past decade have alot to do with this pro-israel support, many westerners seems to assume that as soon as there are muslims involved = they automatically support the other side, especially regarding Israel. They have swallowed the myth that Israel want westerners to believe, that ISIS and Hamas is the same and many easily duped westerners buy that.
Little do they do that Hamas is an enemy to the ISIS:
ISIS Declares War on Hamas,
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/world/middleeast/isis-hamas-sinai.html
Islamic State threatens to topple Hamas in Gaza Strip in video statement
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/30/islamic-state-threatens-hamas-gaza-strip
The party that actually support al Qaeda fighters in this equation is actually Israel:
Former Mossad director, Efraim Halevy, defends Israeli medical assistance to Al Nusra Front fighters
https://network.aljazeera.net/en/pressroom/former-mossad-director-efraim-halevy-defends-israeli-medical-assistance-al-nusra-front
So westerners back a state that in turn support the same al Qaeda etc that attacking the west.
How can one be so fooled??
ISIS 1.0 never really went away, Jack – it’s just been keeping a lower profile since it lost its caliphate. It’s been in the Sinai peninsula for quite a while.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_%E2%80%93_Sinai_Province
IDF spokesperson Richard Hecht has claimed on the Beeb News that their special forces recovered an ISIS flag on a raid into Gaza a couple days ago. I didn’t come down with the last shower of shite, so I reckon that may be a ‘false flag’ so to speak, but I could be wrong. Lt Col. Hecht also sounds far more Scottish than our host, for some reason.
ISIS was primarily a tool of the West to destabilise their enemies. Many of the fighters have turned up in other conflict areas, such as Ukraine, apparently transported there by the West. ISIS hasn’t gone away, when needed they will magically appear, fully trained, supported and armed. Look closely behind the bogey men and you’ll see the usual suspects – USA, UK, Israel, etc. (And let’s not forget the white helmets).
Thanks for your reply Stevie. ISIS has never been a tool of the US. Its forerunner, the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), was set up as part of al-Qaeda to wage war on the US (and Shias) in Iraq. I don’t know of any ISIS fighters in Ukraine – maybe you’re thinking of this outfit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajnad_al-Kavkaz
The US is still fighting ISIS in Syria (and, to a lesser, extent in Iraq) as part of Operation Inherent Resolve, which earlier employed a strategy remarkably similar to what the Israelis are doing in Gaza – except with better PR (it’s easy to get public backing to bomb civilians if that public thinks they’re all sadistic terrorists).
I wonder if we could equate that story with the claims made by Trudeau, of Confederate and Nazi flags being displayed when he was having a difficult time quite recently. 🙂
Thanks for your reply CO. In the words of Robbie Williams – I don’t know, but yeah, probably:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvn6eYJh-0c
I assume some of it – “brazen insensitivity” by the West – is destructive response to threatening consolidation of and in fact communication among taditional Mideast enemies via China mediation. Support of Israel by the US was in considerable part for this very reason – to spread war and instability. Were the region full of US Allies like Europe, Israel would very soon fall very deep in the US list of best friends and recipients of military aid.
“Don´t take it pesonally. it´s just business.”
It is now clear that Netanyahu’s grand plan is to drive the Palestinian people of Gaza into at least 40 years in the wilderness of Sinai.
I’m sure that has great resonance for the Zionists.
The US is sending another naval strike group to the Eastern Med, led by the USS Eisenhower aircraft carrier, the Ford strike group is already in the Eastern Med aiding and abetting the murdering Zionist forces.
The irony in the fact Biden’s ancestors arrived in America on the Famine ship from Ireland, only for this man to assist another country in using famine as a weapon of war against ordinary civilians. Wonder what those Irish ancestors, the Finnegan kin, would think of him?
“Please send more enormous juicy naval targets. The last ones were delicious”.
Russia asks UN Security Council for ‘immediate’ ceasefire in Gaza.
Which country/countries will veto the resolution?
“A UNSC resolution needs at least nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the US, Britain, France, China, or Russia. The United States has traditionally shielded its ally Israel from any Security Council action.”
Superbly lucid talk on Israelis being used to further US interests in the Middle East.
Message to the Israeli people (YouTube, 18m 3s) – Middle Nation, 15 Oct 2023
and by coincidence this early clip of Joe Biden just came up to support it:
X/Twitter – The Agitator (@Agitate4Change) 10 Oct 2023, 8:03pm – video clip, 33s
“[Israel] is the best $3 billion dollar investment we make… Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” – Joe Biden
interestingly twitter will not allow me to bookmark it.
Who is the speaker in the first video?
The other guy is a nutter.
I do not understand how the treasonous arab leaders could go on with this and I do not understand why the arab population do not topple these awful people in charge of their nations that only benefit Israel and the US.
Why are not Qatar demanding that Israel release thousands of palestinians prisoners in israeli jails instead?? Hamas should of course not releasing any of their hostages.
US talking to Qatar about release of Hamas hostages – FT
https://swentr.site/news/584981-us-qatar-israel-hamas-hostages/
And Israel’s bloodlust is endless, now they try to drag Iran into the a wider war, of course it is the west that must attack Iran for Israel – that is the plan. That is what Israel always do, make other suffer their policies, wars. Iraq 2003 was very much grounded in this principle.
Iran a ‘Nazi regime’ – Israel
Iran’s support for Hamas makes it culpable in last Saturday’s attack, Israel’s envoy to the UN says
https://swentr.site/news/584990-israel-iran-nazi-regime/
Qatar is set to be the world’s biggest supplier of LNG by 2030. Like the other Gulf monarchies they talk the talk to appease domestic opinion, but won’t walk the walk for Palestine. Also, Al Udeid and other facilities in Qatar serve as logistics, command, and basing hubs for the U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM). Do you really think Qatar are a true friend of Hamas or the broader Palestinian cause?
Everything Hamas do there is monitored in all likelihood. Some think they are fools for not relocating to Iran.
” I do not understand why the arab population do not topple these awful people in charge of their nations that only benefit Israel and the US.”
Probably for the same reason as European countries do not topple the awful people in charge who only benefit Israel and the US. And then of course there are the US bases.
Came across the following earlier:
‘Section Commander of the Gaza Fence: “The obstacle is built so that even a fox cannot pass it”. They Let It Happen. The Hamas Attack Was Allowed to Close the Book on Palestine’
https://www.globalresearch.ca/speculation-mark-hamas-attack-allowed-close-book-palestine/5836029
And can anyone tell me what Israel’s objective was in bombing Gaza to smithereens during the past week, apart from raining down terror on the inhabitants and creating terror in them. Given that it’s well known that Hamas have a wide network of tunnels, and that that’s where they would be, along with any hostages (which from what I read recently aren’t a priority and can be sacrificed), what was the thinking behind bombing Gaza to rubble, which they are still continuing to do of course..
“And can anyone tell me what Israel’s objective was in bombing Gaza to smithereens during the past week,”
The very large amount of natural gas off the shore of Gaza might have something to do with it.
Cherchez la ressource.
Blinken met today with el-Sisi and agreement has been reached to open the Rafah crossing plus provisions made for Egypt to host a million people.
All looks pre-planned doesn’t it, Blinken’s travel schedule is too aligned with Israel’s needs. Basically, it looks like the US has secretly agreed to let Israel steal Gaza using the pretext of fighting terrorism. Hamas have been played.
To the extent that Palestinians refuse to leave Gaza, any plan to take the offshore gas will be impeded, and the deaths of those Palestinians will make Israel look very bad indeed.
Israel has been looking pretty bad since 1948, I don’t think a few more dead Palestiniana are going to bother the nutters one little bit.
Someone on X(Twitter) joked that Gazans are being cleared to make way for beachfront properties to be built for all the wealthy Jewish settlers who’ve recently arrived from Ukraine and Russia.
That may be nearer the truth than anyone realises.
Israel have planned for a long time to expel all Arabs from Israel Palestine Gaza one way or another , USA and U.K. are trying to aggravate Iran and Russia and China all of whom stand against USA and U.K. warmongering it will be interesting to see if further provocation is put forward by USA , one thing is clear , USA cannot tackle Iran Russia and China all at the same time , we can track the USA intentions by simply watching what they do week to week it’s so predictable, there is a big war brewing , I think USA are just trying to figure out where to start it.
Israel is going to sieze at least North Gaza.
Yes and 1.8 billion Muslims – which accounts for nearly 24% of the global population – about to let them. Got to wonder where is the unified opposition?
Israel is going to seize all of Gaza the remaining Palestinians will be shunted into Egypt as many were during the Israel Egypt war a few decades ago
I had two conversations with random strangers over this weekend.
A woman complained bitterly that Essex County Council had lit up County Hall in Israeli colours; she complained that the council should not spend Essex council taxpayers money to take sides, she called it racist and said she’d reported it to the police.
And a man walking his dog lamented what he timidly began describing as a religious conflict. When I said that it was more about Israeli occupation of Palestine he became more forthright, complained about how the powerful countries had divided up the Middle East by using a ruler to draw lines on maps, and that they seemed to want to destabilise the entire region.
I talk with random strangers quite often, but I actually can’t think of even one in recent years who supported the Establishment political and media narratives.
On BBC Breakfast this morning one of the presenters (the guy) said that Israel has 1,300 civilian dead, and yet the BBC obviously knows that it’s common knowledge that almost 300 hundred of them are/were soldiers.
NB After the Israel figure staying at 1,300 for at least several days, it suddenly went up to 1,400 this afternoon?
https://youtu.be/c74Zdvpt5xc?si=GNL46GiT8gSNuVVk
Many of those hammas captured were soldiers living on kibbutz on Gaza border , having parties aiming their rifles at passers-by, the Arabs have had enough and attacked them
This figure of 1300 dead is being accepted without question. Is there any evidence to show that it is not a complete fabrication? Does it contain the 40 “beheaded babies” for instance?
Don’t you know, it’s probably ‘antisemitic ‘ to question how many Jews may have actually died in any conflict.
It didn’t used to be, but it is now.
Some things which has astonished me this last week:
1: the public support for the Palestinians, all over social media, and in demonstrations
2 The lack of sympathy for the Israelis, even after the worst massacres in Israel, ever. But then you hear people like former Israeli PM Naftali Bennett: https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-next-step-is-to-eradicate-this-nazi-type-hamas-says-former-israeli-pm-naftali-bennet-12983273 (especially the last half), going bananas over the fact that Israeli action will kill incubator children, etc: Not easy to feel any symphathy with such people, to put it diplomatically.
3: the gulf beween Western European/US politicians & /Western European/US MSM on one hand (=totally pro-Israeli), and the people in the same areas on the other hand. Our politicians/media no longer represent us.
On point 3 – true, and they (Establishment politicians & media) are very anxious indeed to make sure we’re not allowed to express our differences with their lockstep pro-Israel positions, and that we shouldn’t be allowed to realise how many of our fellow citizens feel the same way.
It is possible to decry the Hamas attacks as an atrocity whilst insisting that they did not emanate from a clear blue sky, but have rather resulted from decades of Israeli persecution of the Palestinians. Howard Jacobson published a piece in yesterday’s Observer complaining about “victim blaming *in the aftermath of these attacks.” However, whilst condemning the Allied bombing of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki as war crimes and crimes against humanity it is hardly victim blaming to contextualize these events as part of a war against fascist regimes guilty of far greater atrocities. In the same way Israel has practiced terrorism on such a vast scale since the state’s creation that today’s lamentation against Hamas by Israel and it’s supporters only stands clear as the most glaring hypocrisy
Also: isn’t it strange that Israel knew nothing beforhand of the attacks on the 7th, (officially), but now they now exactly where to strike in Gaza in order to hit Hamas??
This doesn’t add up.
Same way Amerikkka knew where the WMD were. Recall Rumsfeld: “We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.”
That was good enough for invading a country, and to drag the UK into it.
Any excuse will do for a tyrant.
Indeed
Are they really are saying Mossad haven’t infiltrated Hamas, like the British infiltrated the IRA ?
I find it hard to believe. I think at some ‘strictly need to know’ level someone must have known. And now with Netanyahu’s sinister plan to take control of Gaza taking shape, even more convinced. As we’ve seen with the Spycops scandal in the UK, sometimes the most zealous, fanatical of a given group. are those that are undercover; an extremist approach being the perfect cover.
As the video linked to here (terence callachan, 15 October 2023 at 23:53) shows, at least one survivor of the attack on Be’eri thinks that the Israeli government left them to die. There are also reports that the Israeli government were warned by the Egyptians about an upcoming attack and were ignored.
It seems this evening that Israel may – may – be backing away from a full-scale invasion of Gaza. They have suspended their plans for three days blaming the weather. It may, or may not, be a suspension but few believe that it has anything to do with the weather.
Their suspension may, or may not, be due to the pressure being brought by China, Russia, Iran and possibly even one or two western countries acting behind the scenes.
Time will tell, but in the meantime let Alex Christoforou explain:
Weather delay. China calls for ceasefire. Iran warns Israel/US. Arestovich, Elensky must go. (YouTube, 41m 42s) – Alex Christoforou, 15 Oct 2023
Of course, the weather is due to climate change, which in turn is caused by China. So, if I’ve understood it, China has halted the Israeli invasion. Way to go … 😀
I suspect they’re not ready, and the weather is a cover-up. They’re facing a bloody battle, with many casualties. There may be doubts or there may be extra preparations they think necessary.
q.e.d.:
Glenn Greenwald:
“Pro-Palestine Protests Outlawed in France/Germany”
10 min.
https://scheerpost.com/2023/10/15/glenn-greenwald-pro-palestine-protests-outlawed-in-france-germany/
p.s. the left: Greenwald should have asked Chomsky about the history of how true left opinions were censored in our societies for 150 years if not more. This has been forgotten not least because the entire discourse has shifted to the right in its entirety.
I don’t want to drive Craig to suicide but this would have to be the dumbest thing I’ve seen.
Over a war memorial they display Israel colours. We really are at war …. it’s against dumb uninformed people.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300989808/auckland-museum-apologises-after-light-display-sparks-protest
Auckland Museum has apologised after pro-Palestinian supporters gathered outside the building on Sunday evening to protest the museum’s decision to light up blue and white in support of Israel.
Oh my God, what the hell is going on?? What is this? How do me make this depravity stop?
The collective punishment = warcrimes, goes on openly:
Israel denies ceasefire in place to allow entrance of aid to Gaza
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-denies-ceasefire-in-place-to-allow-entrance-of-aid-to-gaza/
Four Gaza hospitals not functioning after Israeli bombardments: UN
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/15/israel-hamas-war-live-gaza-hospitals-fuel-to-last-24-more-hours-un-says
Excluding the western backed arab states, the reaction by pro-palestinian states like Syria, Lebanon have been very muted, I cannot even find a condemnation quote by their leaders when I did a quick googling.
Even Erdogan have been more reserved that he usually is regarding this issue.
It is because of occasions such as this, in particular, that they had to smear and contaminate Jeremy Corbyn. There must be no major figure in western politics who can act as a rallying point for the public’s disgust at Israeli fascism. Only bought-and-paid-for fake zionists are permissible at the highest levels. Fake because they are not even sincere in their love of Israel as Starmer’s and Lammy’s early careers attest. Just utterly shameless bought-and-paid-for prostitutes for a genocidal, fascist, apartheid state.
Starmer actually does love zionists, as he regularly mentions, plus he sleeps with one most nights.
He was a regular speaker at Palestine solidarity events up until his leadership campaign, bankrolled by arch-zionist Sir Trevor Chin. That is very commonly known.
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/21371377.general-election-candidates-urged-support-sanctions-israel/
It’s just that his sudden 180 conversion to diehard zionist in his fifties (just as Israel was being classified an apartheid state) is never highlighted or queried by the British press.
Starmer is a political version of Uriah Heep…
Dickens, in his 1850 novel, David Copperfield, describes Uriah Heep as a stone-hearted creature, who had hardly any eyebrows, and no eyelashes. Uriah Heep, the main antagonist, is the very incarnation of hypocrisy. He always deploys strategies that bring harm to others.
Starmer often talks up his ‘working class ‘ background similar to Heep’s professed “UMBLENESS’ insomuch as he can only express his desire to climb the social ladder by emphasising how low he is on it. Heep, being a master of deception, craves success in life through evil methods.
At the end of the novel he is entangled by his nemesis.
Thanks PBUH the huge Islamic world is free of fascism, but at least its history is full of actual genocides.
This Jewish one is still virtual, as in didn’t happen – yet. The Gazan people still exist, in the millions.
The US is only too happy to support dictators in the Islamic world so long as they remain supine in the matter of Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians. No democratically elected leader of Saudi Arabia could ever seek to open friendly relations with the country that is subjugating their Arab brethren. The prime example here is the supplanting and murder of Morsi by al-Sisi following a coup almost certainly orchestrated by the CIA
Apartheid South Africa was hardly surrounded by liberal democracies but liberal democracies can never take root with an apartheid state as a neighbour. This applies to Israel today
If it’s sarcasm
Ignor the rest.
It seems that you don’t understand what legalyl or modern day genocide means. You don’t have to eradicate a group but just trying or doing your best to commit total annihilation is closed genocide to my understanding.
Maybe etnic cleansing is more appropriate. Question remains does State has remove 100% or 50% +1 to be classified as etnic cleansing.
There needs to be an urgent fact-finding mission exposing the crimes now, speaking of which, remember during Operation Cast Lead invasion of Gaza by Israel? That time some 1500 palestinians were killed and 15 israelis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)
A self-proclaimed jewish zionist Richard Goldstone was then ordered to oversee the crimes that had been commited.
It started with Goldstone actually put a whole lot of criticism against Israel. But what happend next? He recanted all the big claims against Israel after Israel/pro-israelis initated a campaign against him.
Even though he had already softened the criticism against Israel in the report:
Goldstone’s Daughter: My Father’s Participation Softened UN Gaza Report
https://www.haaretz.com/2009-09-16/ty-article/goldstones-daughter-my-fathers-participation-softened-un-gaza-report/0000017f-da73-dea8-a77f-de73d5880000
Norman Finkelstein wrote a book about this bizarre turn of events:
ON APRIL 1 2011, in the pages of the Washington Post, the international jurist Richard Goldstone dropped a bombshell. He effectively disowned the massive evidence assembled in the United Nations’ report carrying his name that Israel had committed multiple war crimes and possible crimes against humanity in Gaza during its 2008-9 invasion.
https://www.orbooks.com/catalog/goldstone-recants/
Thus it is very important that there is an objective leader of such investigation.
Some stats. on israeli warcrimes:
64000 residentials destroyed
90 schools
11 mosques
11 water sanitation centers destroyed
19 hospital centers not fully functioning
etc
Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/INTERACTIVE_INFRASTRUCTURE_DAMAGE_GAZA_OCT14_2023-1697282764.png
On top of that authorities warn that some 1000 of palestinians bodies may still be under the rubble according to Aljazeera reporting.
Bound to happen from all the racist dehumanizing hatemongering against palestinians whipped up in the media and by politicians in the west:
‘You Muslims must die!’: US man stabs boy 26 times
A 71-year-old white man in the US state of Illinois motivated by anti-Palestinian rhetoric has stabbed a 6-year-old Muslim boy 26 times and seriously injured his mother.
The incident happened on Sunday amid US politicians and media’s ceaseless rhetoric against Muslims over Israel’s war against the Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/10/16/712800/%E2%80%98You-Muslims-must-die-%E2%80%99–US-man-stabs-boy-26-times
British apologists for genocide…
James Heappey said Israel’s armed forces are ‘doing everything they can’ to avoid civilian casualties, but terror group Hamas’s use of ‘human shields’ would make the task ‘incredibly difficult’
——————————————————-
James Heappey said Hitler’s armed forces are ‘doing everything they can’ to avoid civilian casualties, but terror group the Czech underground movement’s use of ‘human shields’ would make the task ‘incredibly difficult’
Such inhumane racist view. Do they really believe it? And even if they knew it was not true, why defend the killing? It is not the UK that is doing this killing so why defend it??
Everytime, every single time muslims are killed by western/israeli forces it is not the fault of west/israel, it is the fault of the death-loving-muslims that want to die. This islamophobic myth pops up every time!
Apparently James Heappey do not know that it is a warcrime to fire indiscriminately where civilians can get killed. Besides what threat are palestinians posing exactly justifying this 3000-deaths-now bombardment? There are no rockets going from Gaza for a week now!
Compare that with this position:
Arab League and African Union call on Israel to cease hostilities in Gaza
An Israeli ground operation could lead to an “unprecedented genocide,” the organizations have claimed
https://swentr.site/africa/585037-arab-league-african-union-israel-gaza-attacks-comment/
….even though it is too little too late for mere condemnations
“And even if they knew it was not true, why defend the killing? ”
One word, kompromat