The UK and the US are both sending military assistance to Israel to commit a calculated and deliberate act of genocide, which is already underway.
Over 500 children have been killed in Gaza in the last week and over 2,000 maimed, many with life changing injuries. Nobody can claim they do not know what is already happening or what is about to unfold. The cutting off of food and water to Gaza is a major international crime, which the western proponents of the “rules based order” universally refuse to condemn.
In both the UK and the US there can be no more stark illustration of the lack of any kind of meaningful democracy, than the fact that there is no major political party that opposes the genocide – despite massive public opposition.
The bought and paid for media and political class in the west are extremely nervous, throughout the western world. Now they have come to the final genocide for which zionism has always aimed, they face a good deal of popular resistance.
Throughout Europe there is a massive gap between the zionist unanimity of the politicians and the much greater understanding of the Palestinian situation among the general public. Tellingly the response by the zionist political class has been a wave of outright fascist suppression.
In France, Macron has made all pro-Palestinian demonstrations illegal, but as so often the French people are not standing for that kind of authoritarianism.
In the UK, the police have adopted the cowardly tactic of arresting a couple of individuals, one in Brighton and one in Manchester, for pro-Palestinian demonstration. Under Tony Blair’s notorious draconian “anti-terror” legislation, they could face up to 14 years in prison.
The young man in Manchester was arrested on the precise site of the famous “Peterloo massacre”, which generations of British people were taught at school was a terrible crime in breach of the rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Let the irony of that set in.
You can go out in the streets of the UK with an Israeli flag and yell that you want every Palestinian to be cleansed from Gaza. That is not illegal. If you say the Palestinians have a right to resist their genocide, that is illegal.
That appears to be a genuine analysis of the law in the UK, France and many other western countries.
That is intended to terrify all of us. It will not work.
The European Commission has been ferociously zionist and gung-ho for this Palestinian genocide. It displayed the Israeli flag on its Berlaymont headquarters. It has taken a side in the most ferocious way.
It is therefore deeply sinister that the European Commission is actively working to shut down pro-Palestinian information and comment on social media. The European Commission has written to all major social media organisations and is able to threaten them with massive fines if they do not remove information of which the European Union disapproves.
Following the terrorist attacks by Hamas against 🇮🇱, we have indications of X/Twitter being used to disseminate illegal content & disinformation in the EU.
Urgent letter to @elonmusk on #DSA obligations ⤵️ pic.twitter.com/avMm1LHq54
— Thierry Breton (@ThierryBreton) October 10, 2023
The notion is plainly nonsense that through the fog of war the European Commission – which is 100% parti pris – is qualified to say what information is true and what information is false, and what comment is legitimate.
Thierry Breton, the European Commissioner in charge of this operation, is a former chief executive of electronic companies – and defence contractors – Atos and Thomson. He has no genuine interest in freedom of speech, and is engaged in a process of silencing dissent for military aims, which is quite simply fascist.
We are witnessing almost all western governments deliberately facilitating massacre, ethnic cleansing and genocide. We are witnessing almost all western governments turning on their own people to crush dissent at that complicity in genocide.
This feels not so much like the week that western democracy died, as the week it was impossible any longer to deny that western democracy died some time ago.
————————————————
Forgive me for pointing out that my ability to provide this coverage is entirely dependent on your kind voluntary subscriptions which keep this blog going. This post is free for anybody to reproduce or republish, including in translation. You are still very welcome to read without subscribing.
Unlike our adversaries including the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, Bellingcat, the Atlantic Council and hundreds of other warmongering propaganda operations, this blog has no source of state, corporate or institutional finance whatsoever. It runs entirely on voluntary subscriptions from its readers – many of whom do not necessarily agree with the every article, but welcome the alternative voice, insider information and debate.
Subscriptions to keep this blog going are gratefully received.
Choose subscription amount from dropdown box:
Paypal address for one-off donations: [email protected]
Alternatively by bank transfer or standing order:
Account name
MURRAY CJ
Account number 3 2 1 5 0 9 6 2
Sort code 6 0 – 4 0 – 0 5
IBAN GB98NWBK60400532150962
BIC NWBKGB2L
Bank address Natwest, PO Box 414, 38 Strand, London, WC2H 5JB
Bitcoin: bc1q3sdm60rshynxtvfnkhhqjn83vk3e3nyw78cjx9
Ethereum/ERC-20: 0x764a6054783e86C321Cb8208442477d24834861a
Apparently, according to our ‘genius’ of a prime minister, we should not be rushing to judgement over who bombed the hospital in Gaza; because British Intelligence are currently working on it ‘at pace’ and will have the answer asap.
In that case prepare for the idea that it was a ‘lone nut’ who had been radicalised by years of reading conspiracy theories on the internet, and had manufactured his device in a bedsit. He had been an MI6 informant, until they mysteriously lost contact with him 5 months ago.
Now you come to mention it, we have a general election coming up and there will no doubt be the, by now obligatory, “terrorist atrocity” just beforehand.
Almost everyone with a sense of decency and justice has seen through the Zionist lies on the bombing of the hospital.
The Zionists have form when it comes to this type lying.
“When Israeli commandos massacred nine activists on the Mavi Marmara flotilla to Gaza in 2010, Israel fabricated audio to justify the killings, claiming activists said, “Go back to Auschwitz” and “Don’t forget 9/11 guys.”
This is a classic tactic in the hasbara playbook.”
https://nitter.net/MaxBlumenthal
How the Zionist loving NYT airbrushes a story to fit the Zionist narrative.
https://nitter.net/LeeCamp/status/1714656107233493046#m
Now would this man not have made a better PM than Boris Johnson, or possibly if he wins the next GE Sir Kid Starver who supports the genocidal Zionists?
“Israeli air strikes have hit Al Ahli hospital in Gaza. More than 500 people – patients, doctors & those sheltering – have been killed.
What unspeakable horror. We will mourn their loss forever.
Our leaders could have spoken up for peace. They chose to cheer on war instead.
When will they demand an end to these atrocious war crimes? How many Palestinian lives will it take to call for these indiscriminate killings to stop?
Please, for the sake of humanity, raise your voice for an immediate ceasefire. The existence of the Palestinian people is at stake”
https://nitter.net/jeremycorbyn
The USA wants to keep the genocide of the oppressed Palestinian people going.
“The United States has just vetoed a Brazilian resolution at the Security Council calling for a humanitarian pause to Israel’s relentless bombing of 2 million Palestinians, half of whom are children, trapped in Gaza without water, gas and electricity.
The resolution includes a condemnation of the “heinous terrorist attacks by Hamas” and a demand for “the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages.”
The pause was to allow “full, rapid, safe and unhindered humanitarian access for UN humanitarian agencies.”
Results of the vote:
Yes: Brazil, France, Malta, Japan, Ghana, Gabon, Ecuador, China, Albania, UAE, Switzerland, Mozambique
Abstained: Russia, UK
No: USA”
https://nitter.net/juliabacha/status/1714663857082306802#m
and now almost another hospital was struck…
Video of al-Quds hospital almost got hit!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3ToM660rz-Y
Craig’s right to praise Alex Thomson’s objectivity in assessing the competing claims. I don’t have an opinion on all of them, but Lindsey Hilsum is another who’s honest and objective, she bravely called out the ‘dodgy dossier’ and missing WMD on the ground in Iraq prior to the Iraq war. Siobhan Kennedy and Victoria Macdonald are good journalists too. Long serving Ch4 news presenter, Jon Snow, tried to maintain balance too. Snow retired in Dec 2021.
https://www.channel4.com/news/team
Unbelievable.
Israel says tonight it will ‘decrease’ Gaza territory.
Where is the western US,UK, EU pushback? Their stated aim is to defeat Hamas, not carry out a land grab. It might be the most expensive land they ever grab.
Someone joked that they need it to build more ‘beachfront properties’ for all those rich Jews who’ve moved there recently from Ukraine and Russia. At least I think he was joking ????
this is from 2017, originally by Middle East Eye:
“43 Times The US Has Vetoed UN Resolutions Against Israel”
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/43-times-us-vetoed-un-resolutions-israel/
intro:
“(…)
The US has used its veto power 43 times against draft Security Council resolutions pertaining to Israel since it first began using the veto in 1970.
The UN Security Council voted yesterday on a draft resolution rejecting the recent move by US President Donald Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, widely condemned around the world; and yet again, the US vetoed the resolution.
As Israel’s biggest ally – the US gives Israel around $3bn in aid annually, largely military, each year – a UN Security Council vote was always going to be ambitious.
The US, as one of the UN’s five permanent members – alongside the UK, France, Russia and China – retains a veto power on any draft resolution presented to the Security Council. The other 10 rotating powers do not hold such a veto.
So while the Egyptian-drafted text has broad support among the 15-member council, according to diplomats, given the US veto power, it and others like it will never pass, regardless of the vast majority support.
The US has used its veto power 43 times against draft Security Council resolutions pertaining to Israel, according to the Jewish Virtual Library, since it first began using the veto in 1970.
(…)”
then a few examples of vetoed resolutions follow.
Just up-dating your figure, Today’s US veto was their 53 blocking criticism of Israel – UK abstained as usual.
I would be interested though to read views on WHY the USA supports everything Israel does – even though, as in the present situation, it actually damges their international standing?
Tom Berney
thx for the update!
As to the question: from what I remember after 1967 the US realized that with Israel they would have a strong military force to ally with which was at that point of time, the right partner in the right region.
Nasser and Sadat with their attempts to act independently from US line became a problem.
For various obvious geopolitical reasons so: The Canal, at that time 2/3rds of the global crude oil reserves were supposedly on the Arabian peninsula – on this Noam Chomsky has some very good work in “New World Orders Old and New” from 1994, updated with comments on the Oslo Accords 1996 – in that book he i.e. calls the Middle East “the greatest prize in world history”, I believe quoting Kissinger (?) – in general the geopolitical position between Europe and Asia, shipping routes, etc.
I would also guess that the loss of Iran was a major factor in Israel ramping up its military posture. Iran after all had a huge well educated population, some oil and an important location on the map in regards of Pakistan and above all USSR and Afghanistan.
And eventually the US wanted to control the region and shielding it from the USSR without causing too much trouble.
(I assume this would have led to major war had the USSR not enough oil reserves of its own.)
For all this to be managed and handled a major vasall in Ancient Roman terms like Israel was and is decisive.
And along the divide and conquer line the Palestinians are instrumentalized to spread unrest and in-fights in the Arab world, to keep those countries from forming an alliance (Iraq v. Iran v. Saudi-Arabia) / to deny Palestinians a true state of their own, denies it to other groups like the Kurds as well, which is of course of major concern for Turkey, the other big player there and VIP NATO member / and of course by picturing Palestinians as the life threatening terrorist minority military build-up of Israel could be easily justified.
To provoke constant bloodshed via the Palestine conundrum also guarantees enough disgust in Europe to oppose any Arab solidarity movement who are painted as constant threats to Israeli statehood.
The question of Holocaust is of course merely a thin veil for the stalwart interests mentioned.
But under different historical circumstances it could have well been someone else than Israel.
So some of those countries also contested among each other for the affection of Washington.
Last point: Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq had left wing groups, Marxists by conviction and those of course were considered a nuissance, in Classic Anti-Colonial tradition.
The radicalization of the Baath Party in Iraq especially was one way e.g. to contain and eventually destroy those groups (one reason why Hussein became a major ally for the US).
Those formerly leftist nationalist groups would have some spring-off later as Islamist movements which then again were to be played off against each other, see ISIS vs. Iran.
Obviously I am no scholar but thats what I remember from past readings. – for instance I have omitted Syria.
Others here might add more and also contradict and correct my post.
AG not sure if that is a Kissinger quote, I could not find it. Somebody must have said it!
In 1992 Daniel Yergin published “The Prize”, an epic history of oil. He explained the title of the book by quoting Winston Churchill in 1912, when he was First Lord of the Admiralty, long before becoming Prime Minister of Britain He was arguing for the conversion of British warships from coal to fuel oil, but noted the geopolitical ramifications of tying Britain’s fortunes to oil.
“To build any large additional number of oil-burning ships meant basing our naval supremacy upon oil. But oil was not found in appreciable quantities in our islands. If we required it we must carry it by sea in peace or war from distant countries. We had, on the other hand, the finest supply of the best steam coal in the world, safe in our mines under our own land. To commit the Navy irrevocably to oil was indeed to “take arms against a sea of troubles.” Yet, if the difficulties and risk could be surmounted, “we should be able to raise the whole power and efficiency of the Navy to a definitely higher level; better ships, better crews, higher economies, more intense forms of war power”—in a word, “mastery itself was the prize of the venture.”
—— Winston Churchill
and consider this from Churchill in 1920 (Quoted in A Peace to End All Peace, Fromkin)
“If, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown which might comprise three or four millions of Jews, an event will have occurred in this history of the world which would from every point of view be beneficial and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire.”
—— Winston Churchill
It has been said before that as the British Empire faded an American one arose, on the back of the mighty industrial production of “the Arsenal of Democracy”. It inherited the same geopolitical concerns – sea power versus land power
Apparently Israel stores weapons, particularly atomic weapons, for America, it is one of the central props of Empire and as such, gets the priveleged treatment of a loyal imperial client – “murdered” as opposed to “killed”. Israel’s proximity to the oil fields and the newly discovered gas fields in the sea off the coast, indicate how clearly the country’s existence and future is tied to influence on or control of hydocarbons and made more acute with the removal of Russian alternatives. US and Israel have to double down or lose “the Prize”
One reasonable explanation is that, among the super-rich people who effectively control the US government, there is a preponderance of Jews.
Until people understand that the USA is not a democracy, but on the contrary has a constitution and an establishment carefully designed to exclude democracy, they will not be able to grasp the concept that their government is owned and controlled by anonymous figures.
@ Tom Welsh
I’ve heard this a few times from people who have worked in the USA ;
” The Irish run America, the Jews own it “
It’s more to do with the evangelical christian lobby – e.g. CUFI is the largest lobby group.
It’s because of the Jewish vote / lobby in swing states
The Jewish population of the US is about 1.8 %, so other than in very localised areas their voting power is minimal. Now, whilst it’s true that there are numbers of Jewish very wealthy folk in the USA, their numbers compared to the complete body of the US millionaire population are also a minority.
The reason that it appears to be the case that Jewish people may have influence beyond their numbers in the USA is because a good percentage of people living in America really have little conception of what’s going on outside of their State, let alone the rest of the world, and are therefore easy prey to the sort of propaganda that to British eyes may look unbelievable. Then there’s the well=known predilection towards learning that the Ashkenazim have, that ensures that they will be a large-ish percentage of those emerging from higher education, and thus eligible for work in places like the State Department, and other areas that exert visible influence on the foreign policy of the USA. Add in the fact that Israel is an unsinkable aircraft carrier in a region of the world that has the potential to cause huge financial pain the ‘West’ (Think 73 oil crisis), and its easy to see how the Jewish lobby might appear to have extreme influence over America’s foreign policy.
But it would be well to not get carried away with the idea that the old canards regarding Jewish Control of things are a reality ? It might appear to be so in some limited areas, but that appearance will be entirely due to what are perceived to be US national interests at the time. Should those interests cease to exist for some reason, then what were expedient alliances are easily discarded.
Put in simple terms, Israel is able to get away with actions that would render any other nation so doing into a pariah State, because it is at this time vital to US foreign interests. Should it become a burden to said interests, it will either be reined in, or in extremis, thrown under the proverbial bus.
A number of American politicians also are dual nationals, holding USA and Israeli passports. Now where do their loyalties lie ? I suspect the UK also has similar issues.
“The Jewish population of the US is about 1.8 %…”
Fairly close, then, to the proportion of US citizens who have any political power or influence.
The unconditional support of Israel is highly perverse. With regard to the USA, what is even more perverse is the case of the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967. 34 crew members killed by an Israeli attack involving jet aircraft and naval boats in a long lasting and sustained attack in international waters. After the attack the surviving crew members were silenced by the USA authorities. Although later claimed it was accidental the facts about the attack suggest otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Probably LBJ not wanting the US to become a direct participant ?
If ever America were to become directly engaged, it would likely be the one event that could unify the surrounding nations into concerted action, or in other words, game over ?
As for support being perverse, why would you think that ? The USA has complete control over Israel, and Israel is entirely dependant upon America. Its a neat trick to have people imagine that things are the other way around, but that itself allows the US much more latitude.
Casual Observer, If a US naval vessel is attacked by a foreign power, America is involved – period.
The murderous and unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty is best seen as a Israeli attempt to draw America into the fray and attack Egypt, indeed US atomic weapons were slated for Cairo but the strike was cancelled when a survivor onboard the stricken vessel managed to jerry-rig an ad hoc transmitter and inform the US Sixth Fleet about the identity of the Israeli attackers. The vessel was flying a very large US flag when the attack began. Washington approved the atomic strike on Cairo
So in the 1960’s, a small country, Israel, was almost able to use a false flag attack to get the US to nuke Cairo, killing and maiming US personnel in the process. When the deception was unmasked, the perpetrator was not punished, indeed the whole shameful incident was covered up and the sailors who were the victims, were buried or forced into silence. Israel is a feature of US imperium not a bug, as it was for the British Empire that preceded American hegemony. Does the dog wag it’s tail or does the tail wag it’s dog?
If you watched the British version of “The Lobby” you will remember a lowly employee of the Israeli embassy, Shai Masot, bragging he could get British cabinet ministers sacked if they were not sufficiently pro-Israel. The American version of “The Lobby” is equally damning of American polity. If you have not watched “the Lobby” you need to keep your mouth shut because you do not know what you are talking about. Yet you breezily assert “The USA has complete control over Israel, and Israel is entirely dependant upon America.”.Hopefully, this misinformation that you are providing is a one-off oversight on your part and not a deliberate and sustained policy that claims ignorance as knowledge and falsehood as truth.
Your complete certainty about Israel’s subordinate status vis-a-vis America seems to bear no relation to the historical record, What information makes you think this?
Definitely worth a read.
“We call for the EU to impose immediate sanctions on the Israeli government for Gaza hospital bombing”
“Israel is no longer trying to hide its crimes, while the European Union and most European states are actively involved in covering up for them.
In this tweet, Hananya Naftali, an adviser to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, announced the bombing of the hospital in Gaza by the Israeli Air Force, justifying the bombing because, he claimed, there were Hamas men hiding inside. But as soon as they saw how many civilians were killed, he deleted this tweet and the Israeli government went on a disinformation campaign trying to blame the attack on Hamas.”
“Meanwhile, Israel’s minister of justice maintains that the Israeli government is deliberately killing 2.5 million people by hunger, starvation and deprivation of medicine until Hamas releases its own hostages—a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions.”
https://diem25.org/call-for-immediate-sanctions-the-israeli-government-for-gaza-hospital-bombing/
While focus is of course on Gaza, Israel keep escalating in the West Bank, by arresting and killing people.
At least five Palestinians in occupied West Bank killed by Israeli forces
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/17/israel-hamas-war-live-anger-after-israeli-strike-kills-500-in-hospital
In sum Since October 7, 62 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank by the Israeli army, which has made hundreds of arrests
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/18/israel-hamas-war-hundreds-of-civilians-killed-in-a-hospital-in-gaza_6184604_4.html
They act with total immunity. How many palestinians must be killed before the west are to react? 5000? 10000? 100000?
What an amazing coincidence that the bombing of the hospital should happen the night before Biden is flying to Israel, and that by the time he arrives, Israel has ‘conclusive proof’ that it was an errant misfired rocket fired by Islamic Jihad (who I must confess I haven’t heard mentioned prior to now, and only in respect of the hospital), and that Biden says (for all the world to hear) that he’s seen the whatever, and it was the other team that were responsible. In other words he flies all the way to Israel, confirms it wasn’t Israel, and then flies back to the US. As a number of independent journalists and commentators have pointed out, hardly anyone was killed in Israel by the barrage of thousands of rockets on October 7th – and just today in an emergency debate in the HoC, Cleverly said that thousands more rockets have been fired into Israel since Oct 7th – and that it’s an impossibility that such a missile could suddenly kill hundreds of people. Apart from which, I don’t recall Israel at any point prior to the hospital hit saying that numerous Hamas rockets are misfiring (33% of them according to some Israeli spokesman last night). Anyway, here’s a clip from the Jonathan Cook article he posted today:
Let’s say it again: The BIGGEST fake news comes from the establishment media. When the stakes are high, it barely bothers to hide its role as mouthpiece for Western propaganda.
This is another Iraqi WMD moment. We are being gaslit. Believe your eyes and ears, and the laws of physics, not the lies being peddled by our leaders and media about last night’s missile strike on the Baptist hospital in Gaza:
1. No Palestinian group has a rocket that can hit a hospital, killing hundreds. What they have are glorified fireworks that can cause minor damage and the occasional death or two. If Hamas or Islamic Jihad could cause the kind of damage that happened last night, you would hear about it happening in Tel Aviv or Ashkelon too. You don’t because they can’t.
2. Israel’s apologists (and there are lots of them) are sharing all sorts of videos unrelated to the hospital strike. But the video of the strike itself shows that an incredibly large and powerful weapon is used. Listen to the noise the missile makes just before the hit – that whooshing noise is caused by its phenomenal velocity as it cuts through the air. That is *not* the noise of a falling Palestinian rocket.
If you watch videos being shared of Palestinian rockets being fired, notice how slowly they travel. Almost at a snail’s pace. If they fail, they drop at free fall speed, not the near-supersonic speed of the missile that hit the hospital. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the laws of physics..
History repeats.
The Warsaw ghetto uprising and its repression is acknowledged as a henious crime and even today the guilt for that event is still felt by a large section of the German people.
I suspect that The Gaza ghetto uprising and its repression is a crime that will haunt the Israeli people in the days and years to come.
Not however a farce, just the usual macabre dance of a species that never seems to learn anything.
I’ll keep an open mind but it seems more likely than not that Hamas were responsible for the hospital attack. If it was Israel then they are taking an enormous risk by lying (at the highest level) when evidence must exist that it was their rocket and a significant number of people must know it was their rocket. It is far fetched that they fabricated the video and audio evidence so quickly. And independent analysts are now pointing the figure at Hamas. Craig Murray’s silence on the subject suggests to me that he agrees. It’s hard to maintain the evil genocidal Israel vs freedom fighting heroes of Hamas line when the latter have just murdered up to 500 of their own people.
The shocking thing is how quickly and gleefully so many rushed to blame Israel. As Alister Heath puts it:
‘The same people who spent days claiming that the massacre and incineration of babies by Hamas was “unverified”; who didn’t believe witness statements from Israeli doctors or soldiers; who conveniently ignored the fact the murderers had live-streamed their atrocities; who wanted to view every piece of evidence, every picture, every video for themselves before finally, almost reluctantly, accepting that Hamas had indeed committed war crimes – these very same people all immediately jumped to judgment.’
‘Hamas’s word was enough. No proof was needed. The bias, the lack of objectivity, point to an abhorrent, endemic culture of anti-Semitism among swathes of the West’s cultural elites, even among those who see themselves as “tolerant” and “liberal”.
We should all care about the truth, however inconvenient or upsetting. I don’t know for certain what or who caused the explosion, but having scrutinised the evidence and especially the judgments of trustworthy open-source experts, it appears very likely that it was an Islamic Jihad rocket that misfired. It seems very unlikely that Israel was to blame. If the evidence were to change, I would change my mind. So why have so many of those who rushed to condemn Israel remained silent now that the facts point to Islamic Jihad as the guilty party? Or is that a stupid question?’
But Philip, it would go without saying that if Israel DID deliberately bomb the hospital, they are hardly going to admit that they did, are they? Anyway, could you post a link or two or three to these trustworthy open-source experts you mention who have scrutinised the evidence. Thanks
Far worse Israeli atrocities in central Gaza, where people were told by Israel safety awaited – anyone watch BBC 2 Newsnight until the end? No wonder they left that segment right until the end of the programme. Buildings flattened and dozens of sheltering dead kids under them. The argument over the hospital looks like a distraction tbh.
When Sunak goes there, he needs to ask how exactly an invading army will determine who among the 2 million (and falling) population are Hamas and who are simply military aged males with no connection to Hamas, huddled with their families? They won’t hold signs up declaring they’re Hamas.
Israel may be about to conduct a US/UK sponsored slaughter that puts Netanyahu on a par with Adolf Hitler, yes really, that bad. Similarly, it’ll stain Israel’s reputation forever and leave their troops traumatised over killing innocents. Mass slaughter of the male population of Gaza, seriously who’d want to defend that as legitimate?
There was a woman (in Israel) – holding her young child – interviewed on BBC News 24 this afternoon whose elderly parents were kidnapped and taken hostage by Hamas, and at one point – despite her obvious devastation – referred to Netanyahu’s Government as a criminal gang, and that they have no interest in making life better for the Palestinians, and that Gaza could have been a paradise by now.
Yes, I think people could and would get along without these vile men in the Israeli Knesset radicalising the population. Netanyahu’s whole career has been built on creating maximum fear in the population, while posing as the ‘strong man’ saviour who people can trust to protect them.
I’m more disgusted with Israel, because they actually have the power to do the right thing, and they won’t. The imbalance in power is such that the Palestinians have zero leverage obviously, when it comes to forcing progress on two-states. And the PNA and 87 year old Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah, West Bank, are a waste of time.
I think Netanyahu is about to make a huge murderous mistake. If a land grab is his intention over the dead bodies of 200,000 Palestinian men, plus countless women and children? He risks radicalising a new western generation against Israel.
No, I’m sure you’re right. They wouldn’t admit deliberately bombing a hospital. But if hard evidence existed they would have to acknowledge culpability for an ‘unfortunate mistake’. As to sources: several analysts are listed in this DT report:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/18/gaza-hospital-explosion-missile-palestine/
Or if you prefer, here’s the Guardian version, which says the same thing more or less (Hamas probably did it) though less explicitly.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame
The Telegraph article is behind a paywall Philip, so would you mind posting the names of these ‘independent analysts’. Thanks.
As for the Guardian article, it says the following at the end:
‘The Israeli military said in a statement that roughly 450 rockets fired at Israel by militant groups had landed in Gaza’
As I said in a post a bit earlier, an Israeli spokesperson.said last night that 33% of Hamas’ rockets misfire and go astray, yet I’ve not once heard this in the ten days before. Have you?
Certainly. These are the relevant parts:
Fabian Hoffman, a defence and missile technology expert from the University of Oslo, said a “Hamas rocket experiencing some type of systematic error causing it to fall on the hospital” was the “most plausible explanation so far”.
Justin Bronk, a leading air power expert at the Rusi think tank, said the object sounded under-powered in video footage posted online.
He also believes that the explosion on the ground appeared to be a fireball, likely caused by part of the rocket holding the fuel exploding on impact.
“This is the most noticeable damage to the ground, which, if it were the impact point of the munition used, would mean it’s pretty small payload,” Eliot Higgins, founder of Bellingcat, the leading open source investigation agency.
Nathan Ruser, a researcher at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, wrote on Twitter: “The photos of the scene are, to me, not consistent with an airstrike.’
You can listen to a comparison of the sound of the hospital attack and the sound of a US made JDAM bomb at
https://askeptic.substack.com/p/russia-ukraine-reports-2023-10-18 abut half way through the post.
“Certainly. These are the relevant parts:”
Of course no one in the West would dream of paying these experts to say just what they said, would they? Just because someone is an “expert” it doesn’t mean that they are necessarily honest and trustworthy.
Philip says:
‘It’s hard to maintain the evil genocidal Israel vs freedom fighting heroes of Hamas line when the latter have just murdered up to 500 of their own people.’
As you well know Philip, Israel is claiming that what hit the hospital was an errant rocket fired by Islamic Jihad that misfired and went astray, which Biden agreed with and publicly repeated, so not even THEY are claiming that it was a deliberate strike, but you come on here and ‘transform’ it into the murder of 500 of their own people. And then, in your very next sentence, you say ‘the shocking thing is how…… gleefully so many rushed to blame Israel’. Gleefully? Could you post a few examples of this gleefulness Philip. Thanks
PS I must confess when you asserted that ‘Craig’s silence on the subject suggests to me that he agrees’, I detected an element of gleefulness. Is that right?
You have made some excellent comments on this topic but your last reply should have pointed out that Bellingcat is just a shill for the NATO establishment and funded by numerous Deep States within this organization. It knows where its bread is buttered
So, I take it you now accept that there is significant doubt as to who fired the missile? You haven’t challenged my argument at all. Quite a shift in your position.
Now you’re questioning whether I have a right to describe Hamas’ actions (if the hospital tragedy was a result of their misfiring missile) as murder. I would say yes, in the same way that DUI can be classified as murder if the driver consciously ignores the risks of his own behaviour to others. We know Hamas routinely fire low quality ordinance over the Gaza skyline and much of it fails, falling onto civilian areas. We know they routinely position their forces and munitions in residential areas thus guaranteeing civilian casualties if Israel retaliates – as they know she will. So yes, I’d call that murder. You can call it something else if you want but what difference does it make? People are still dead.
As to my ‘glee’, you couldn’t be more wrong. I find all this unutterably bleak and horrible. Glee is the last thing I feel.
What independent analysts are you talking about?
“The shocking thing is how quickly and gleefully so many rushed to blame Israel. ”
Including Hananya Naftali, an adviser to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Nobody was pretending it wasn’t Israel in the short time before it became known that so many civilians had been killed, neither Israel nor the US. Both were saying, yes, it was a hospital, but HAMAS terrorists were hiding there. It wasn’t so much a matter of “rushing to blame”, but decrying what was admitted. Some people’s memories are not as conveniently malleable as the apologists for Israel would like. That’s the problem with lies, you have to be consistent throughout.
Philip Patrick “I’ll keep an open mind but it seems more likely than not that Hamas were responsible for the hospital attack.”
I think this must be preserved as the best example of an oxymoronic sentence on this entire forum.
And yet, the goons still assume the general public will soak up any statements which contain no links to hard evidence at all. Their posts can be identified immediately by sentences such as this:- “Craig Murray’s silence on the subject suggests to me that he agrees.”
To most people with a modicum of intelligence, CM’s silence on the subject suggests nothing of the sort. The silence could be for many reasons, as we have no knowledge of Craig’s current activities since being arrested, and subsequently released.
And remember, this next sentence comes from someone who is (allegedly) keeping an open mind…..
“It’s hard to maintain the evil genocidal Israel vs freedom fighting heroes of Hamas line when the latter have just murdered up to 500 of their own people.”
And, who on this forum has ever maintained the line of “evil genocidal Israel vs freedom fighting heroes of Hamas”?
I could go on, but am too depressed by the inhuman behaviour of both sides.
Our host’s ‘silence on the subject’, Philip:
https://nitter.net/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1714551633240113500
Verbatim quote: ‘Israel destroyed the hospital.’
Oh and FYI Hamas & Palestinian Islamic Jihad are not the same thing.
Allister Heath 😹
“If it was Israel then they are taking an enormous risk by lying”.
Why ? They know and we know that nothing will happen, they can literally do what they want. The only people who could stop them would be the Arabs and Russia and China, but these guys are not going to risk WW3 over the antics of the mad dogs. They will feed them more and more rope until they hang themselves. And as for the Palestinians, they will continue to be displaced and murdered. And, probably end up on our doorstep in the near future.
Best text of this day is by Chris Hedges: “Israel’s Culture of Deceit”
A pretty straightforward piece. I might wanna translate it and send to a few papers in Germany.
“Israel, which always seeks to blame Palestinians for the atrocities it carries out, is the least trustworthy source about the bombing of the hospital in Gaza. ”
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
intro:
“(…)
Israel was founded on lies. The lie that Palestinian land was largely unoccupied. The lie that 750,000 Palestinians fled their homes and villages during their ethnic cleansing by Zionist militias in 1948 because they were told to do so by Arab leaders. The lie that it was Arab armies that started the 1948 war that saw Israel seize 78 percent of historic Palestine. The lie that Israel faced annihilation in 1967, forcing it to invade and occupy the remaining 22 percent of Palestine, as well as land belonging to Egypt and Syria.
Israel is sustained by lies. The lie that Israel wants a just and equitable peace and will support a Palestinian state. The lie that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The lie that Israel is an “outpost of Western civilization in a sea of barbarism.”
The lie that Israel respects the rule of law and human rights.
Israel’s atrocities against the Palestinians are always greeted with lies.
I heard them. I recorded them. I published them in my stories for The New York Times when I was the paper’s Middle East Bureau Chief.
(…)”
links provided for the above intro (for the rest look into the entire Hedges text):
“Nakba Day: What happened in Palestine in 1948?”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/15/nakba-mapping-palestinian-villages-destroyed-by-israel-in-1948
“Why Did the Palestinians Leave, Revisited”
https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/41537
“The Nakba did not start or end in 1948 – Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine”
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/23/the-nakba-did-not-start-or-end-in-1948
“A 50-Year Occupation: Israel’s Six-Day War Started With a Lie
The war was launched in 1967 because Israel wanted to annex new territory, not because it faced an imminent threat from Arab forces. The peace process is a charade.”
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/a-50-year-occupation-israels-six-day-war-started-with-a-lie/
“The Nakba did not start or end in 1948 – Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/6/4/the-naksa-how-israel-occupied-the-whole-of-palestine-in-1967
“A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid”
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid
But of course; Israel is sustained by lies.
It is built on lies; read what Theodor Herzl, author of Der Judenstaat (The State of the Jews) in 1895 wrote in his diary;
“When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly …”
(Lol: “expropriate gently”, that is like the “new traditions” which have sprouted in Israel since 1948)
And then they said that “the Arabs left on their leaders order” [in 1948], even though their own investigation (30th June, 1948), showed that as for “Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases.”
Lies, lies, lies, lies.
It’s striking that when Craig Murray, Jeremy Corbyn and other notables appeal for an end to hostilities, to allow for a humanitarian intervention for non combatants, they are immediately waylaid on social media with personal attacks.
I mean… ‘strewth, if Johnson or Nick Griffin or anyone else said the exact same thing, I would agree 100% ! But the far-right brigades can only thow out personal slurs, as if that were a valid counter to a desperately needed call for a cease-fire. This has picked up so much in the past week, it has to be a centralised effort. Ordinary people are surely not suddenly taking to social media en masse to rubbish individuals calling for an end to mass slaughter.
Yes glenn_nl it is indeed a centralised effort,massively funded.
Just scanning the comments section in the Daily Mail these last few days has been shocking.It seems to be the mobilisation of a huge and organised army,battalions of bots and sockpuppets in lockstep.I presume it’s the same all over the MSM and social media platforms.
Must be costing many millions.
Yeah lots of dormant accounts seem to have become active, in order to spew pro-Israeli and anti-Palestine propaganda.
When Corbyn was leader large flash mobs would appear in London, protesting alleged antisemitism, all holding identical placards. On one occasion people from the Israeli embassy were photographed handing them out. Israel does understand the importance of PR and media manipulation in achieving their objectives. And authorities know about this activity and don’t care. It’s like a Jedi mind trick ‘This is not the foreign interference you are looking for’.
Corbyn was seen as a danger because he wanted to officially recognise Palestine as one of his first moves. Starmer, surprise, surprise, has dropped that pledge.
brand new:
Hedges and Finkelstein in conversation.
53 min. podcast
I can´t say anything yet since it was just posted.
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/the-chris-hedges-report-with-professor#details
first half is monologue by Finkelstein repeating some from earlier texts.
Conversation opens up a bit in 2nd half.
I would suggest to listen to all.
But the 2nd half has some good emotional points if time is limited.
And the last 3 minutes, well, Finkelstein draws some rather cloudy predictions regarding Hezbollah´s reaction in case IDF carries out its proposed operation in Gaza. On the other hand he assumes it will be too costly for IDF.
But he admits to not know much about military matters. He also speculates on tactical nukes against Iran.
But I still think thats madness. Netanyahu is a corrupt asshole but he is not suicidal. Otherwise he couldn´t have such a long career despite numerous indictments and allegations.
(he reminds me of Berlusconi)
p.s. I am sometimes wary of Finkelstein´s Nazi analogies as I don´t know enough about the particulars of the Palestine wars.
In above discussion he compares the expected flattening of Gaza City with the Nazis flattening Lidice.
Lidice was a Czech village destroyed in 1942 by the Nazis as an act of revenge by the Nazis after 2 men who came from Lidice managed to assassinate Reynard Heydrich, chief of the SS and the Henchman of Prague.
In the course of destroying Lidice 170 villagers were gathered in a courtyard and executed.
Now its one thing if the IDF will wait untill all citizens left the city and destroy it.
Something else if they destroy it even though they know that there are 170 Palestinian civilians there because they were blocked to leave in order to get them killed.
One has to go back into the details of this conflict.
Yes this was good. Some interesting points about the professor’s mother and the transmission of morality across the generations as well as clear statements on the blood-drenched recent history of Israeli punitive military operations against Palestinians, Cast Lead, Protective Edge etc.
As for Lidice, I think Putin is closer with his “Leningrad” analogy. Hitler vowed to use high explosives and starvation to kill the population of the city. When they were dead, the city was to be razed and no new settlement founded. As far as the dictator was concerned nobody was innocent in Leningrad. I think an Israeli politician said something similar the other day concerning the children of Gaza and their lack of innocence, which he said, justified their slaughter. Barring a rapid, successful ground invasion by Israel, Gaza’s fate does bear comparison to the hectacomb that was the Siege of Leningrad
Thanks for sharing AG. Wonderful interview.
I would like to highlight two sections, but I agree it is worth listening to the whole interview.
18:12
The discipline and faculty of developing moral judgement, and how to apply moral judgement, that needs to be refined by immersion in the field of Moral Philosophy.
I found the description of the process whereby Finkelstein developed his own moral judgement on Hamas to be the most moving. He draws the distinction between the intellectual, dictionary definition of acts against humanity, and the morality of those acts. As listeners, how do you apply a moral judgement to prisoners, who have spent their entire lives under occupation, under concentration camp conditions; lied to repeatedly with promises that the blockade against them would be lifted; to be ignored forever and left to die once the plan to normalise relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia was agreed.
There is no point Israeli apologists passing judgement on my quote without listening to the man’s words- that is the error of the ‘snap judgement’ that Finkelstein warns of in the interview. That kind of judgement is the tool of the hypocrite, unable to reflect deeply on the situations where rage is an inevitable consequence of enslavement and lifelong oppression.
We are seeing an increasing number of groups of Israelis, and western Jews, who have immersed themselves in a process of moral reflection and have come out in support of the Palestinians; acknowledging their suffering. But there appears to be no faculty of moral judgement that is available to our political class.
I would go further and state that such a faculty is incompatible with the hypocritical, narcissistic character that is needed to succeed in politics.
Finkelstein’s opinion on what will happen next? He sees the participation of Hezbollah as being inevitable.
48:00
“If Hezbollah allows Israel to carry out a second Nakba, they will lose all credibility… From an organisational point of view they have to do something”
If the 1,300/1,400 Israelis killed is equivalent to twenty 9.11s (as netanyahu and co keep repeating), then how many 9.11s has Israel inflicted on the Palestinians during the past 75/80 years???
Another aspect to this , which I think few politicians in the west seem to have thought through, is what they are actually supporting by backing Israel.
Netanyahu says he wants to “completely eliminate and destroy Hamas,’ but Hamas is the government, it has an administrative wing and a military wing the Al-Qassam Brigades, who aren’t the same people.
When western politicians say they support Netanyahu’s objectives, they are supporting the murder of Hamas politicians, not just the military wing. Staggering that in 2023, that the US, UK and EU politicians are all united in support of the murder, in cold blood, of other elected politicians.
More to the point, I think, if the 1,300/1,400 Israelis killed is equivalent to twenty 9.11s, that implies that each Israeli death is equivalent to about 40 American deaths.
So how much more valuable must Israelis be than the rest of us?
This figure of 1300/1400 deaths is bandied around as if it were proven, but there is no justification for it. How come exactly 1300 Israelis were killed, then exactly another 100? Does the Israeli government not know how many of their citizens have been killed and, if not, why not? The UN is able to give fairly precise figures for the number of Palestinians killed, why can’t the Israeli government do the same?
“why can’t the Israeli government do the same?”
My guess Bayard is that Israel is leveraging “the fog of war” across the information domain. This allows greater narrative control at home and abroad. Israel is legally quelling critics at home. Its supporters are attempting to do this abroad. The families of the Israeli hostages are being abused and vilified as they try to draw attention to the plight of their loved ones. In a vigil being held in public, brutish yobs showed up and violently accused these suffering people of not being patriotic enough and helping the enemy by holding their vigil. These are the sort of bitter fruits that can be reaped by robust narrative control.
Most of the news outlets in my country (in Western Europe) have swallowed Israeli statements about the hospital massacre; hook, line, and sinker. Very depressing.
This gives a bit different view:
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
at least it debunks the so-called “overheard phone call”, where Palestinians “admit” that it was their own behind it.
(Strange, isn’t, that Israeli intelligence never got wind of the attack on Oct 7, but somehow managed to listen in to this? Lol.)
Also; as the report says, “Israel has form”, when it comes to denying their atrocities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike : another case when Israel said there was a military presence: a lie.
thx
we need to know about this hospital attack in a way that at least the papers in the West cannot just ignore and have to report it – right now all over Germany reports are appearing questioning even the number of dead constantly quoting unnamed Israeli Intelligence sources.
And so that the majority of the public can believe it. Then it can be used in argumentation against this madness.
The blatant acts of violence and human rights abuses by Israel, and endorsed by the US and the UK, has seen a global protest in support of the Palestinians. Asia, Africa and South America are refusing to swallow the Zionist-Neocon-NATO propaganda garbage. The recent Belt and Roads Initiative summit (BRI) has seen China, Russia and sc0res of nations doing their own thing and refusing to endorse the criminal West. Even Western MSM is being forced by the evidence and sheer weight of protests to air alternative views to the Western agitprop. People aren’t buying it anymore, whether it’s “poor victim” Israel or “poor victim” corporations seeking to steal national assets and have people sleeping in tents. The public, in large numbers, are fighting back against the lies.
Yes the public are spontaneously sickened by what they are seeing. The furious efforts of zionist-funded politicians cannot whitewash clear genocide. The ghouls who are still supporting Israel will be viewed in due course with the same contempt as those who supported apartheid South Africa. Of course they will deny ever having done so.
this too highly recommended:
interview Robert Wright with Sarah Leah Whitson,
Director Democracy for the Arab World Now, frm executive director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa Division from 2004 – 2020
a lot about intern. law, ICC, war crimes etc.
Naturally less radical than Norm Finkelstein
But I find it well worth the time (not through yet)
60 min.
https://nonzero.substack.com/p/israel-hamas-and-the-laws-of-war#details
Time Code Stamps:
1:37 Israel’s military plans for northern Gaza
4:37 How does international law apply to Israel and Hamas?
15:47 The first casualty of war is truth
24:22 Do Israel’s actions in Gaza constitute ethnic cleansing?
31:38 The evolving definition of genocide
39:08 How the US and Israel helped Hamas seize power
49:50 America’s ill-fated push for Arab-Israeli normalization
52:49 The hazards of overreacting to Hamas’s attack
1:00:58 How western media has covered the conflict so far
and if you do watch – I urge you to go to 37:40
Robert Wright, the light-weight he likes to display in the show, suggests that Hamas just like the Israelis could be charged with Genocide (which is absurd). But anyway.
And Whitson doesn´t respond. She instead says: Find out for yourself what Hamas is saying in public statements because if I might say anything now on this show my Twitter Feed will be full of claims that I am standing with Hamas (which she cannot afford with her organisation).
Wow.
This lady was very impressive, her pronouncements resonated with me. And she was very kind to her non-plussed interviewer. This fellow was so light I thought he was going to blow away but she made sure no harm came to him.
In all that has been written about the massacres in the Israeli places; I don’t think I have seen anyone write how those places were made?
Salman Abu Sitta writes in his autobiography “Mapping my return” (from 2016) that:
Nirim,
Ein HaShlosha
Nir Oz and
Magen were all built on Abu Sitta land. (He has done extensive research; see his “Atlas of Palestine”)
“Mapping my return” is a brilliant book; I cannot recommend it strongly enough.
I really wish that media would interview him about the events these last 2 weeks, for some perspective.
Some horrific scenes from inside Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza:
https://nitter.net/m7mdkurd/status/1714707400404394136
Israeli/US/EU/UK denial of the hospital bombing is textbook Zionist distraction and obfuscation. A time-honoured tactic that Israel supporters, high and lowly, crave.
IDF responsibility for this atrocity – along with every other one in Gaza – is beyond reasonable doubt.
Why is it so obvious in this particular atrocity, even before an IDF ‘investigation’?
* Because they literally admitted they did it then deleted the post.
* Because they have been caught multiple times using edited and or old videos.
* And also this:
“Channel 4 News tears Israel’s lies about the hospital bombing to shreds in less than 60 seconds”
https://x.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1714775482283991172?s=20
Israeli governments have been deploying the same deny-distract tactics in the wake of war crimes for decades now. The media knows the tactic very well and – with the surprising exception of Channel 4 – are eager to amplify this latest lie to further gull their audiences into supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
Chris Hedges on Israeli lying:
“Israel engages in the kinds of jaw-dropping lies that characterize despotic regimes. It does not deform the truth, it inverts it. It paints a picture that is diametrically opposed to reality.. Israeli supporters thirst for these lies. They do not want to know the truth. The truth would force them to examine their racism, self-delusion and complicity in oppression, murder and genocide. Most importantly, the Big Lie sends an ominous message to the Palestinians. The Big Lie states that Israel will wage a campaign of mass terror and genocide and never take responsibility for its crimes. The Big Lie obliterates the truth. It obliterates the dignity of human thought and human action. It obliterates facts. It obliterates history. It obliterates comprehension. It obliterates hope.”
I wonder if the bail conditions of Craig’s recent arrest will affect what articles he can publish.
The idea of bail conditions that effect what you can say based on charge that probably wont be prosecuted seems wrong.
“If a person breaks any of the conditions of their bail, the police can arrest them and they will be brought before the next sitting of the local Magistrates’ Court within 24 hours. Magistrates may then refuse any further bail applications”
“Pre-charge bail is initially set for three months. Police can internally authorise extensions of pre-charge bail for up to nine months. No time limit. Court approval required to extend pre-charge bail beyond nine months”
“Whilst the power of the police to release a person on bail prior to trial has existed for centuries, the power to release on bail a person suspected of but not charged with a criminal offence has been available to the police only since 1925. The power to attach conditions to pre-charge bail is of very recent origin, having been introduced for the first time in 2003 but rapidly expanded since then. Whilst imposing restrictions on the liberty of a person should, constitutionally, be reserved to the judiciary, the fact that it was originally conceived, in part at least, as a mechanism for enhancing liberty reduced the constitutional tension created by allowing members of the executive such powers. However, the changing role of arrest in the investigation of crime
and the granting of extensive powers to the police to impose bail conditions means that the police now have the ability to place controls on people not charged with a criminal offence for extended periods of time. It is argued here that this is in breach of the right to liberty under Article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights and, in practice, may also breach other Convention rights”
“The idea of bail conditions that effect what you can say based on charge that probably wont be prosecuted seems wrong”.
Quite so. It also seems like exactly the kind of sly trick that modern Western governments delight in playing.
Three main pillars of the propaganda war are very clearly seen in the following dispute:
1. Establish control of the narrative by the use of strong emotive terms in order to establish the semblance of moral superiority. Much of the current campaign has therefore been to get everyone to condemn terrorism and to label the enemy as terrorists with complete disregard for the fact that the opposing occupying state has been practicing all aspects of state terrorism.
2. By starting the clock and discussion at a certain time point thereby ignoring the long background leading to the last ‘atrocity’.
3. By asserting the right of only one side to defend itself.
This is very thoroughly exposed in this interview between Piers Morgan and the Palestinian ambassador to U.K. Husam Zomlot.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=fmWw5AjU0HWaaup5&v=GvDAra1VFnE&feature=youtu.be
“Philip Patrick
October 19, 2023 at 05:21
Certainly. These are the relevant parts:”
A bunch of notorious purveyors of cheesy propaganda then.
Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst, remains level headed with his interpretation of this incident. Those here who have concluded it was a deliberate crime by Israel, need to take his deliberations on board. I say your rushing to conclusions, conclusions that may be correct, but for now the forensics do not support your case.
As far as I am concerned, there are far too many here trying to force round pegs in to square holes. Intellectual discipline is called for in order to discern exactly what happened here. Rage and bigotry will not help understand this tragedy.
I feel what is happening here really does show that “it is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is believed to be true”…_
https://sonar21.com/many-unanswered-questions-surrounding-alleged-israeli-bombing-of-baptist-hospital-in-the-gaza-strip/
It would not take a huge leap of imagination to think that when you have Israeli government ministers referring to Palestinians as Human Animals (Untermensch), that some targeting officer in the IDF could have taken it as a cue to aim for hospitals or places of worship ?
Remember that the beheaded babies story seems to have been traced to an individual who could best be described as a Jewish version of Julius Streicher. So it may very well be the case that some individuals in the Israeli community are at least the equal in barbarity to the worst of the Hamas crowd ?
Then of course, I’m old enough to have seen this play before. It goes like this, when Israel is in danger of having its ‘Regional Superpower’ bluff called, it carries out some action that outrages the world community to such an extent that its patron, the USA, is forced to step in to wind things back.
I’d suspect we are seeing things being wound back now, but it will be done at a pace that allows Israel to maintain its Big Dog projection.
Nobody has seen this before. In the past Western leaders would at least have pretended to care about relentless 24/7 televised slaughter of Palestinian civilians, condemned the unending war crimes and called for a ceasefire.. That’s all gone now. “Do what you want.. Starve them, bomb them, burn them. We love you all the more for doing it, Israel!”
What you suspect we are seeing bears no resemblance whatsoever to what we are actually seeing.
Check out the mentions of the reports of the late Mr Fisk above. Nothing new is happening here.
The newish element in all this is the ‘Internet’. The public, and interested groups now have various forums for discussion, and the reportage in the era of 24/7 news is pretty much near instantaneous. And whereas in previous upsurges Israel was able to control the information sphere to a great extent, it seems now to have lost control, hence the allegorical references to WWII by the serried ranks of Israeli PR folk.
Nope. Neither you nor Robert Fisk saw Western leaders respond like this before. They are doubling down in support of genocide and ethnic cleansing even as it is plastered for almost 2 weeks across TV and the internet.
They have always sided with Israel until events and behaviour by the Israelis made one-sided support untenable. They then move to trying to be seen to ameliorate the worst effects on the Palestinians, whilst still supporting Israel.
Which is what we’re seeing now with aid waiting on the Gaza border. They’ll string that out for a few days before letting it in, and then move onto some other angle or sham attempt to minimise the suffering of innocents.
Blinken getting snubbed by the other recipients of US aid in the locale, and MBS, is a new experience; no doubt the State Department will be sensing it’s on a bit of a dodgy wicket, and will modify its approach to be more in tune with a ‘Blessed are the peacemakers’ angle.
I see no amelioration or humanity on the horizon.
Tuesday’s strike on the al-Ahli Arab hospital was the single deadliest ever attack on Palestinians by Israel, and instead of immediately calling for war crimes tribunals Western politicians and media fell over themselves to blame the victims, while Biden pledged billions to facilitate more massacres.
” I say your rushing to conclusions, conclusions that may be correct, but for now the forensics do not support your case.”
I wouldn’t say it’s rushing to conclusions to say that the Israelis did it when they themselves have admitted doing it and the US has seconded them in that. Sure, their story has changed, but, as the police well know, it’s what’s said immediately after the crime or arrest that is most likely to be the truth.
That horse ain’t gonna move, no matter how hard you hit it.
At least under English law an accused cannot be convicted on the basis of a confession. The confession must be supported by forensic evidence, which I view as sound jurisprudence.
That is wise in my opinion and I advice that those who are jumping to conclusions here to wait on the forensics. Some of the evidence that is available will be what type of explosive and an examination of the missile/bomb shrapnel. Why has it not been produced yet…_
Digger
If you have followed MH 17 you would know that the findings will depend on who investigates in the case of such a high profile crime, whoever carried it out. Already there is talk that because this is in Gaza and direct forensic examination by Israela, Us and their followers is unlikely to take place in the near future and we already hear that any evidence from Palestinians is unreliable.
As to shrapnel, there was an interview with a Palestinian surgeon who saw the first victims and confirmed shrapnel wounds, not burns. The Palestinian rockets that have been fired so far have never caused this degree of damage and are unlikely to do so otherwise you would have heard of this from the Israeli side.
What’s the big deal anyway? Israel bombs hospitals all the time.
“At least under English law an accused cannot be convicted on the basis of a confession. The confession must be supported by forensic evidence, which I view as sound jurisprudence.”
Quite possibly, but this wasn’t a confession, we are not in a court of law, and not even in the UK.
Perhaps you would like to link to where you called for suspension of judgement on who was responsible for the 260 deaths at the rave whilst it was investigated if 260 people had really died, and, if so, who had killed them.
B: “Perhaps you would like to link to where you called for suspension of judgement …”
I already asked Digger_uk that, got no answer of course because Digger_uk is an apologist for genocide and won’t go near a question like that.
One might wonder why Israeli buildings aren’t being blown up like that hospital all the time, if Hamas’ rockets are that powerful?
But of course Hamas’ bottle-rockets have never caused such an explosion, so obviously no Israeli building has ever been so damaged. How do we know? Because the entire corporate media and every western official would have been screaming about it ever since.
Digger,
I say this is some version of Limited Hangout by its dedicated Merchants.
When it comes to Larry , who I first came across at cia flunky ‘Colonel’ Laings SicSemper/Turcoplier site.
A place I soon got a whiff of as an ever more pungent Limited Hangout outpost for the CIA elite ‘retirees’.
If Larry and co actually told any real explosive truths they would be hauled off rapido. So unless and until they do that , it is best to be a bit dubious about their motives and their sophisticated wares.
The whole virtue-signalling west repeat what they did on Ukraine, lining up to support for the regimes. Sunak in Israel, meanwhile dozens of palestinians slayed and Israel have destroyed the roads that the humanitarian aid were supposed to travel on. Pure evil!
Some headlines from Aljazeera:
– Israel-Hamas war live: Sunak in Tel Avis as air attacks pound Gaza, Sunak, Herzog stress imperative to avoid escalation: Sunak: ‘Above all, here to express solidarity with the Israeli people’
– Gaza doctors using vinegar to treat wounds as medical supplies run out
– Roads to Rafah crossing need repairs before aid can reach Gaza after fresh israeli attacks
– And yes there we have it, the corrupt palestinian authority is part of the plan:
Israeli opposition leader says post-war Gaza should be ruled by PA
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/18/israel-hamas-war-live-limited-gaza-aid-deal-agreed-between-us-and-egypt
This is just getting beyond insane. Sunak to Netanyahu “we want you to win”
Obvious question. Is any reporter going to ask Sunak “what does winning mean?”
Is this a football match who can kill the most. So what happens when the game is “won”?
Sunak no criticism of the human disaster inflicted by Israel. Obviously the half-time team talk. “OK you guys have done well another 3500 killed should do the job go to it.”
And Biden said the hospital bombing was done by the “other team”.
And the referee (UN) hopeless to say the least. The VAR (Security Council) not operating.
The same Biden who saw evidence of 40 beheaded children before the White house officially declared that there was no evidence of this?
He couldn’t remember the name of the other team.
Al Jazeera: “Sunak highlights importance to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza”
I do not understand, why are Gaza in need of humanitarian aid if Israel just attack legitimate targets?
Keir Starmer wins backing of billionaire BlackRock chief, Larry Fink: ‘He offers hope to British politics’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-starmer-blackrock-support-fink-b2432113.html
The puff-piece in the Indy does not attempt to ask the important question: what was it specifically that made the Jewish CEO endorse Starmer publicly at this time?
One would hope, that unconditional obedience to Israel was not the only quality that was required to be UK prime minister.
“One would hope, that unconditional obedience to Israel was not the only quality that was required to be UK prime minister.”
One would hope not, there are a lot of other people they need to be unconditionally obedient to.
I wanted to write a comment about it but wasn’t capable to formulate. Txs for your comment.
Scott, I think Fink’s ethnicity unimportant and Starmer’s relationship to Israel secondary. The timing of this announcement is worthy of note and further consideration as you suggest. But unconditional obedience to oligarchy is the only necessary quality required to be at the top “of the greasy pole” in Britain – all the other qualities a candidate may possess follow from this one, according to their individual dispositions and circumstances.
Using my own specially written software that compares linguistic form with physical form I offer the following translation Of Mr Fink’s words,
“He offers certainty to Blackrock’s shareholders that British politics will deliver bumper rates of return to the Oligarchy, otherwise another appointee will be found”
Israel just last night signed onto a UN resolution condemning China for human rights violations in Xinjiang.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/joint-statement-on-human-rights-violations-in-xinjiang-at-the-un-third-committee
That’ll worry the Chinese ? Imagine Israel as the growling Chi-Wa-Wa dog in the handbag of the blonde with big boobies that is America. 🙂
51 signatories, from the 193 in the UN. It shows how difficult it is to get a consensus on anything. At a glance from the north, Russia, Hungary and Turkey are notable for their absence.
More obvious is the shortage of southern hemisphere countries (FVEYs excluded).
You could argue whether this represents support for China, contempt for the US, or just general disinterest.
T
Israel is also threw a tantrum in an interview with RT against Russia,
Video:
Israel ruling-party Likud politician to Russia: “Russia is supporting Nazis who want to commit genocide against us. Russia will pay the price!”
https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1714823846782538170
A peculiar thing happened today. I put the radio on and little brown smelly bits emerged from some news anchor who said something about Teheran’s intentions to stop Israel’s ‘flattening of Gaza’ with the help of Hizbollah.
If this is another calculating goading lie then it was to be expected, but the implications of such a step would/could be global and devastating.
if it is true I expect that they will take out the rogue state nuclear arsenal at home FIRST before it crosses the undeclared borders and STRIKE Damascus or Teheran.
Those who put petrol on a fire should not be surprised if they get burned first.
Now I have to clean my radio of the constant crap it comes up with. Take care all.
Telegraph headline:
Pro-Palestine protests in UK ‘stirred up by Iranian and Hamas network’
Head of Commission for Countering Extremism to say thousands of protesters did not appear out of nowhere
Robin Simcox, the head in question, was interviewed last night on Newsnight. Without providing any proof he leapt into wild Paul Mason-esque assertions about ‘shadowy networks’ forcing otherwise disinterested (in genocide) citizens to protest Israel’s disproportionate action and wave Palestine flags. Netanyahu is using dehumanising language, as are Israeli ministers, talking about exterminating animals etc. And yet the people peacefully protesting in the streets, are – according to authorities, somehow misguided pawns of Iran, or closet extremists.
Fair few came out last Saturday, and with the escalation of events there’s no reason to think there’ll be fewer this coming Saturday ?
Tricky situation for HMG ? Probably explains why the headman of the security mob has been popping up into the public eye this last week.
Apparently, you can’t be a concerned citizen now. Not without someone reading ulterior ‘extremist’ motivations or foreign influence into it.
People posting here and CM get accused of being ‘conspiracy theorists,’ all the time. However, the biggest conspiracy theorists in the UK today, are those on the right who are vastly overrepresented in the media, politics and dominate the new ‘censorship industrial complex’. They’ll believe anything that springs into Paul Mason’s caffeine, or something stronger(?) fueled runaway imagination, and then accept it as if irrefutable evidence.
The recent protests are almost certainly spontaneous and organic, just like the pre-Iraq war protests, which authorities dare not claim were foreign sponsored. You have to be seriously biased in favour of Israel’s far right ‘extremist govt’ to believe otherwise.
I’d suspect the Telegraph is really only concerned with offering some bogus explanation to its readership of potentially forthcoming events they will find worrying ?
Or attempting to retain control of the narrative.
Many wondered how the Holocaust happened.
The Telegraph and Mail (which has a long history of supporting fascism) are demonstrating how, with enough propaganda, civilians can be slaughtered in their tens of thousands, with impunity. And nigh on zero British official and public concern. How did fighting ‘terrorists’ morph into ethnic cleansing and grabbing land?
“People posting here and CM get accused of being ‘conspiracy theorists,’ all the time.”
For all conspiracy theorists to be wrong there would have to be no such thing as a conspiracy, I wonder what the conspiracy denialist’s idea of a plausible conspiracy theory is.
” Without providing any proof he leapt into wild Paul Mason-esque assertions about ‘shadowy networks’ forcing otherwise disinterested (in genocide) citizens to protest Israel’s disproportionate action and wave Palestine flags.”
He’s got a point there. After all, there are ‘shadowy networks’ out there forcing otherwise disinterested citizens to support Israel’s disproportionate action and wave Israeli flags, so why shouldn’t it be true for “the other side”?
It is a question of scale. The ruling elite control the media, the machinery of government, the courts, etc. etc. and say we must support the genocide of Palestine. The notional “other side” has no comparable power. So his comment is disingenuous at best. A paranoid monster dreaming of paranoia and monsters, as these grotesques are wont to do. He sounds like he is channelling Reinhard Heydrich, who, famously, was against any form of open political dissent. I wonder how much Heydrich-wannabes like this Simcox get paid these days?
As a matter of fact, the notional “other side” is actually the side of humanity, i.e. those against mass killing and collective punishment, not some transitory political interest group. Though any number of additional parties can join the side of humanity anytime they want.
You are clearly on the fence on this one Bayard, if you think there are two sides to genocide but if you can resolve this, you’re welcome any time on “our side”.
My irony went over your head, it seems. I don’t think people like Robin Simcox think very much at all about what they are saying and, if they did, it probably doesn’t go beyond “It’s what we do, so it seems likely that it’s what they do”. Thinking that everyone else thinks like you do is a very common fallacy. I don’t suppose the people who wrote the script believed for one minute what they were writing. It’s almost scarier to think that they did, it means they can no longer be bothered to find out if it is truth or propaganda.
My sense of irony has been deformed by President Biden claiming to have seen pictures of beheaded Israeli babies which he could not substantiate. Meanwhile photographs of dead Palestinian children were going around the globe which I can substantiate.
He is the “Leader of the Free World”, at the centre of a world of power and I am no one, at the arse-end of the universe – maximum irony overload!
So apologies for not catching your drift.
As for this petty Heydrich, Simcox – a quango mouthpiece, (backed by significant political and administrative resources) doesn’t speak without a plan. Is he not just another highly paid enforcer of the reality of power, a la Karl Rove’s take on imperial stewardship? It has been posted here a lot but in case you are unfamilar with it, it reduces down to “Empires” make their own “reality”
I come not to praise Piers Morgan but to BURY him, for his heinous LIES.
As he attempts damage control and narrative manage.
Piers Morgan gets schooled by the ancient civilised Egyptian comedian Bassem Youssef.
He also destroyed Shapiro and Boreing , some guys who are the current day equivalent arsewipes of some other golden billionaires.
https://youtu.be/4idQbwsvtUo?si=ZvmMFF3CW_m2ktFt https://t.me/myLordBebo/10361
Never heard of Bassem Youssef before – Never forget him now. He is a Don. I respect and thank him for his voice and aptitude and letting me get up this morning with a mighty guffaw and smile. .
And the instant refutation to Morgan’s bare faced lie , from his own mouth on his show. Telling Joan Collins about beheaded babies. Without any prompting. That he claimed to Bassem Youssef, he never said!
https://t.me/myLordBebo/10418
There’s probably a link to that on YouTube too if anyone can be bothered to post it.
Enjoy.