The UK government is actively complicit in genocide in Gaza – indeed with its supply of weapons to Israel, provision of communications intelligence and aerial surveillance and participation of UK special services, I would argue it is more than complicit. The UK government is a part of committing genocide in Gaza. This is vile to many people in the UK, but it is especially anathema to a large majority of people in Scotland.
This YouGov survey of November 2 shows that a strong majority of people in Scotland say that their sympathies lie on the Palestinian side, whereas both in England and in Wales majority support is on the Israeli side by a small margin.
Furthermore this survey attempts to measure strength of feeling, and Scottish support for Palestine is the most strongly held opinion in any constituent part of the UK and on any side of the question, by a wide margin, with 43% of Palestinian sympathising Scots holding that view “a great deal”.
Earlier YouGov surveys gave the same result, with Scotland being the only UK nation with majority Palestinian support. This one is for 24 October.
Across the UK as whole, there is a massive difference in age group, with support for Palestine very high among young people, who sympathise with Palestine by 46% to just 9% for Israel. Support for Israel is highest amongst over 65s, by 30% to 10%. I suspect it is related both to closeness of birth to the Second World War, and to propensity to use mainstream media for news.
I would stress that none of this is new: polls have always shown much higher support for Palestine in Scotland than in England. The same is also true of Ireland, and I have no doubt that in both Scotland and Ireland this instinctive support for the Palestinians is in part related to folk memory of dispossession from the land and colonial occupation.
14/10/2023. Pic sof a pro-Palestine / anti-Israel demonstration at the steps on Buchanan Street, Glasgow.
It is important to remember that the extraordinary rise of the SNP and support for Scottish Independence in the first decades of this century was, in part, fuelled by revulsion at the heavy UK involvement at the attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. Those imperialist wars resulted in millions of dead and maimed and tens of millions of displaced, and the complete destruction of infrastructure in those countries.
The urge to be free from a state that continually engaged in aggressive war motivated a great many Scots to support Independence. It can do so again now over UK support for Gaza. Blair’s rampant neo-imperialism also did much to break Scotland’s support for the Labour Party. We might now realistically hope for a similar reaction to Starmer’s Zionism.
That revulsion is now felt again. Every citizen of the UK is tainted by the support of the British state for genocide. We all bear a drop of responsibility for each drop of child’s blood spilt in Gaza. Because like it or not, the UK government represents us. The military support it gives to Israel is paid for with our taxes. None of us did enough to prevent being ruled by callous enablers of murder. There are degrees of complicity, but everybody is tainted.
All three major England-based parties – the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats – openly support Israel and oppose efforts to halt the genocide.
I hear a number of the wonderful people who marched through London for peace last weekend, and in many other English cities, groaning at me. Of course there is a strong movement for Palestine in England, and a great many of my friends are in it. But here in Scotland we are operating in a fundamentally different political culture, that values community and horizontal solidarity.
We Scots deserve the right to allow that culture to flourish away from the imposition of an alien political culture by a much larger neighbouring nation.
Suella Braverman’s far-right bully boys were only the tip of the iceberg of racism which has been enabled in Europe by the support of conservative political elites for the genocidal attack on Gaza. The morass of online Islamophobic and anti-immigrant abuse which accompanies the pro-Israeli rhetoric is frightening. This “war of civilisations” undercurrent is there right across Europe. Where there have been pro-Israeli demonstrations, they have been remarkably white.
Here in Scotland I have been impressed by Humza Yousaf, the Scottish First Minister, for his calm and serious reaction to the Gaza genocide and his unequivocal call for a ceasefire. Yousaf has subsequently been treated to an insane barrage of racist and Islamophobic abuse online. This should be a rallying point for all decent Scottish people to defend their First Minister from racism, whatever smaller disagreements they may have.
MPs had the chance to put humanity before politics.
To say the killing of innocent civilians in Gaza must stop. And it must stop now.
MPs who voted against @theSNP calls for an immediate ceasefire are on the wrong side of history.
This cannot continue. Humanity must prevail. pic.twitter.com/5iDCfwPcQI
— Humza Yousaf (@HumzaYousaf) November 15, 2023
This points the way to a reinvigoration of the Independence movement. I can find no statistics on it, but it is evident from social media that there is a very strong correlation between unionism and support for Israel, and between Independence support and support for Palestine.
For Independence to be achieved in the short term, Independence supporters need to rally round a cause, and Palestine is it. There is clear blue water between Scottish and English opinion, and there is clear blue water between Scottish and London political parties. There is also clear blue water within Scotland between nationalist and unionist opinion.
The Palestinian cause is popular in Scotland and in fighting it, we also fight racism. This is the moment to focus on working together on Palestine and putting any divisive issues less acute than genocide (and all issues are less acute than genocide) firmly on the back burner, or perhaps in the fridge.
SNP and Alba party MPs walked together through the Westminster lobby to support a ceasefire in Gaza, while the leadership of Tory, Labour and Liberal parties all voted for more killing. Let us build on that.
Nothing is more fundamental than genocide, nothing is more urgent to prevent than genocide. Let us work together to prevent it.
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” I suspect it is related both to closeness of birth to the Second World War, and to propensity to use mainstream media for news.
Yes.. I hope you are Right about this Craig. Most of My Information comes from US Alternative Source.. Few UK ones But George Galloway and Lowkey were Great on MOATS Last night. Scot Ritter was on too.
George reminded Me that According Braverman and UK policy – I was breaking Two UK laws at a small Genocide protest on Saturday – Wearing the keffiyeh, and Flying the Palestine Flag.
G.G’s Monologue is worth watching, Followed by Wise Lowkey –
https://youtu.be/i5A45dtSrB4?t=481
Brian, wearing the keffiyeh and flying the Palestinian flag aren’t illegal here; at least, not yet.
Last Saturday evening a police officer did snatch away my Palestinian flag as I was approaching Westminster Tube station to go home, but he didn’t remotely suggest I’d be charged with anything and said police were taking flags to avoid “setting off” the drunken right wing mob that had come to “protect” the Cenotaph. This officer was visibly trembling, and had probably faced the fascists’ hail of bottles earlier.
A flag vendor and a Palestinian Solidarity Campaign coordinator replaced my flag gratis, yesterday afternoon when I told them what had happened, so like some benevolent hydra two flags have regrown for the one taken. There is massive humanity and love in the protest crowds.
Free, Free Palestine!
Well Done in getting to the march, Clark.
I like the Two Flags sentiment … A poet would… I was watching the video of Craig on ‘A Scottish Prism’. Craig mentions the technology the UK security had 20 years ago, and wondered what technology they have now. I wonder if they can freeze your video at 2 seconds, as my 56 video was on Saturday. I Know I started the videoing, then stopped it at 56 sec – Small gathering of 70 or so. I suspect one of the photographers there was Police…. Shouldn’t have Given My Name methinks… Mmnn.
I was reading about the famed Palestinian Farah family – on a Norman Finkelstein post – an IDF sniper coward shot Elham Farah in the leg … then shot at would be helpers..as she lay bleeding…so no one could get to her.
..Yet Another War Crime to add to the growing list.
Elham Farah was a Palestinian woman — born and raised in Gaza. She is the youngest daughter of the well-known Palestinian poet Hanna Dahdah Farah. The Farah family is one of the oldest Christian families in Gaza, tracing their origins back to the Ghassanid Arabs, who were eminent in Gaza between the 4th and 7th centuries AD. The Farah family have roots in this city and are famous for their knowledge and literature. Like the rest of the women in her family, Elham was educated and talented. She was strong-willed and adventurous.
Elham was a Multi-Instrumentalist who turned her dad’s poems into songs.
Stay well n Safe Clark
Brian.
That’s a quite stunning difference between the humanity of Scots and the English. One I was completely unaware of. I’d seen the big surge in Scottish support for Keir Starmer and just assumed Scots’ socio-cultural distinctiveness (and basic understanding of politics) had ended.
“That’s a quite stunning difference between the humanity of Scots and the English.”
Only if London isn’t part of England.
In both surveys, the figures for London and Scotland are remarkably similar.
“Only if London isn’t part of England.”
Culturally, I don’t think it is.
Interesting also to see that Remain voters are rather more sympathetic to Palestine than Leave voters.
You’ll be claiming that those responsible for chopping down the Sycamore Gap tree were Brexiteers next…_
Question: Would Humza Yousaf give a toss about Palestine if his family were not directly involved ?
I don’t see a statesman, or a caring politician. I just see someone concerned about their own.
He was a self serving, incompetent arse before 7th of October, and I suggest he still is.
That’s a lot of unsupported assumptions which does you no credit. He has been a rare example of a politician speaking out on this. As you cannot know your hypothetical, it is the same as saying ‘if HY wasn’t HY then he wouldn’t have the same opinion’. Which is pointless, not to say stupid.
Stevie Boy, people can change, and sometimes witnessing gross injustice is what changes them.
I don’t rule that out, as you say, previous form gives me pause.
There are similarities with Sturgeon during Covid, looking good compared to Westminster,
I hope I’m wrong.
Stevie Boy,
” Would Humza Yousaf give a toss about Palestine if his family were not directly involved ?
I don’t see a statesman, or a caring politician. I just see someone concerned about their own”
What an ironic contrast – if only we change your words a bit:-
Would Rishi Sunak give a toss about Israel if his family were not directly involved?
Here is the proof – https://informationclearinghouse.blog/2023/11/16/u-k-prime-ministers-family-to-rake-in-billions-from-gaza-oil/
– “I hear a number of the wonderful people who marched through London for peace last weekend, and in many other English cities, groaning at me.”
I have been marching in London, but I am not groaning; far from it. Scotland, in the name of all that is good please lead the way, because Westminster consistently chooses the road to hell.
My local Labour Party discussed Gaza at its last meeting (England) – everyone wanted an immediate ceasefire.
Why Anas Sarwar did a volte face and abandoned his previous position is for him to explain.
Humza Yousaf stuck to his guns and has at last been praised by Craig for the honourable position he and the SNP have taken. The Labour MPs who voted for the SNP amendment deserve praise too, even if it includes Ms. Phillips.
For those members of the Scottish Labour Party reading this, I can only say that if Scottish Labour don’t follow the lead of the SNP and call for a ceasefire, don’t even think about campaigning in 2024; you’ll be wasting your time.
The SNP may have trouble with their ferries, but they are now in a position to sail on. Labour’s recent doubling of its Scottish MPs at Westminster may also have been a bit of a high water mark…_
It is interesting also how big the difference is from the north and south, globally, in South Africa they just today announced they have been in contact with the ICC and the president proudly wear the palestinian keffiyeh – something that would be impossible to imagine for a western leader to do.
South Africa’s Ramaphosa Pledges Solidarity With Palestine
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Xf75ySQI9mo
South Africa’s marxist-leninist (3rd biggest party) call out Israel and ICC
Video https://nitter.net/moha77918_marwa/status/1725053698450375130#m
Funny one do not hear from the west that Israel violate the “rules based order”, not to mention what are the rules exactly? Well besides attacking hospitals, blocking humanitarian aid and killing children that is.
I’ve been saying for years the only thing Scotland gets from this scumbag ‘union’ is debt and guilt by association.
And Craig is spot on – the more overt sympathy for the Palestinian plight in Scotland and Ireland is because we recognise the stench of colonialisn that lies behind it.
Sinn Fein made a powerful speech the other day:
Israel doesn’t care about international law.
Why?
Because Israel is NEVER held to account.
When it came to Ukraine, there were multiple complaints to the International Criminal Court over Russia’s actions. Correctly.
Why is Israel any different?
Video https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1724766526593536505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
It feels like it is 2001/Bush/War on Terror once again with all the hypocrisy and double standards of the west in full glare for the billions of muslims and arabs sitting and watch western support and even involvement in grave human rights violations in Gaza while preaching that arab states lack democracy, respect for international law and human rights etc.
For 2 years west took a clear stance on Russia, only to commit far worse crime against Gaza now, all their credibility is long gone for the global south.
Jack.
You might appreciate this piece regarding the definition of terrorism and the ‘war on terror’:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/team-b-jerusalem-conference-israel-helped-craft-modern-terrorism/286295/
Re: ‘This YouGov survey of November 2 shows that a strong majority of people in Scotland say that their sympathies lie on the Palestinian side’
At the risk of being told that I’m writing ‘utter nonsense’ again, I’d just like to point out that 31% isn’t a majority, let alone a ‘strong majority’. Still, at least it’s higher than the 27% it was on 24th October, so things are moving in the right direction – and a lot higher than the 10% figure for Wales (not sure what was going on there). Overall though, considering that the Beeb, ITV and Sky News have been fairly well balanced, relating much of the carnage in Gaza to their viewerships, and Israeli PR/propaganda has been an absolute skip-fire at times, the figures are pretty disappointing, as I see things.
It is a majority of those who express a preference for one side or the other.
Thanks for your reply Boss. You did originally write ‘a strong majority of people in Scotland’ though. If we exclude the ‘don’t knows’ & ‘no preference either ways’, it’s currently 58:42 in favour of the Palestinians north of the border, which may be a majority but is not a strong one in my book. As I mentioned, it’s disappointing – but things can change, both in Scotland and the wider UK. Anyway, despite what you think of it, the Beeb is doing its bit, and certainly seems to be getting on the tits of Israeli PR Central, as this painfully unfunny skit demonstrates:
https://nitter.net/EylonALevy/status/1724534782455882179
Enjoy your fondue.
Privately they’re much more distressed that young people *aren’t* consuming Zionist-controlled British state news and are therefore identifying with the Palestinians. The great fear is that milennials and Gen Z are permanently lost to Israel.
Thanks for your reply U Watt. I’m fairly sure Beeb News aren’t ‘Zionist-controlled’, otherwise they wouldn’t be showing pictures of injured Palestinian kids in hospitals and refusing to call Hamas fighters ‘terrorists’, even though its military wing has been designated a terrorist organisation in the UK since 2001.
I’d imagine that the Israelis are more concerned about American millennials than British ones though. According to a recent survey, almost a third of US citizens aged 18-30 are getting most of their news from Tik Tok, which has led to calls for it to be banned. I hope they don’t ever ban the original Tik Tok, as I still think it’s one of the best records ever made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP6XpLQM2Cs
(Listen out for the cameo from Diddy near the start – I’m guessing his lawyers will be reasonably happy today.)
Enjoy the weekend.
I’m completely sure it is Zionist-controlled, otherwise it wouldn’t be both-sidesing a genocide or pondering on Question Time ‘Is targeting a hospital justified?’ Think back 5 minutes to their coverage of Russia in Ukraine and compare and contrast. The Guardian is the same. The Zionist grooming is not always crude and shrill, more often it is gentle and subtle. But both are Zionist-controlled state propagandists, orchestrated in the BBC case by Tory placemen, its most radical fringe employees supporters of Sir Keir and Lord Peter.
“Zionist controlled” is inaccurate. the boss class controls the state broadcaster and often uses zionists as a proxy, they are a Brownshirt militia which wields the career- and job-destroying promiscuous allegation of antisemitism. Honest people say that antizionism is the opposite of antisemitism.
Thanks for your reply U Watt. The Beeb is ‘both-sidesing’ the Israel-Gaza conflict for several reasons, not least that it wants to retain the TV licence and not be forced onto a subscription model that would likely see its revenue cut by over three-quarters. (See also its Brexit coverage.) Subtle propaganda generally involves not mentioning or showing anything that undermines the case you wish to present – e.g. dead or injured children.
The reason that millions of Brits want a ceasefire is not because most of them are reading Jonathan Cook’s blog, tuning into Galloway on his Mother of all Talkshows or following Lowkey on TwitterX, but because they’ve seen scores of dead and injured Gazan children (and other civilians) on the BBC and other UK news channels. Don’t believe me? How many Brits wanted us to stop bombing the shit out of (so-called) Islamic State’s (so-called) caliphate a few years ago? Not very many – mainly because the dead kids of ISIS-land weren’t being shown all over the MSM.
Looks like Cassie & Diddy have agreed to keep their dispute out of the courts, which probably involved several mill changing hands. According to her lawyers, he offered $10 mill at least to keep the (alleged) sordid details from emerging. Anyway, I’d forgotten how good this slice of R n’B perfection was, and still is – thanks to her and your main man polymath Ryan Leslie (perfect SATS score & graduated Harvard at 19, you know):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agNvdSIIkXA
Enjoy your evening.
Lapsed Agnostic…. A strong majority of those who express an opinion is a majority without question. Are you one of those who want to include non voters on your side?
Thanks for your reply Terence. A strong majority of those who express an opinion is a majority of those who express an opinion – it is not necessarily a ‘strong majority of people in Scotland’, and in this case it unfortunately isn’t. I would like to include the people who chose not to express an opinion in the poll on my ‘side’ (which is the side that is more sympathetic to the Palestinians than the Israelis, if you didn’t know), but they decided to sit on the fence.
Enjoy your evening.
The difference may be the larger proportion of persons of Irish Catholic heritage in Scotland, where they feel that heritage particularly keenly.
Do the over-65s who support Israel not remember that the Irgun etc attacked Britons in Palestine in 1948? Throughout WW2 Britain took in Jewish refugees with some of their children going on to high positions in British society – The Milliband brothers and Dominic Raab.
Were the British soldiers killed in Palestine remembered on November 11th?
Well, I certainly ‘remember’ Irgun and Lehi and Stern et al. And of course, so did Thatcher. I suspect that the allegiance of the today’s older cohort is based rather more on their collective antipathy to Muslims, coloured by memories of the PLO/”War on Terror” but most particularly by their strong allegiance to the Conservative Party. See: “University of Birmingham survey reveals Islamophobia is the posh person’s prejudice” (2022)’
And yes, I remembered my Pappy’s cousin ‘Ric’, who died in the 3rd Battle of Gaza in 1917 and whose remains lie today in the beautiful Commonwealth Cemetary in Gaza City (currently closed to the public); formerly tended by the most extraordinary and dedicated Palestinians who are presently (according to Urban) sheltering for their lives in Khan Younis. They had arived in Gaza following the First Nakba. The Israelis have yet again damaged the graves with their (allegedly) precision bombing and shelling of military targets. But in the wreck of Palestine, what matter a few shattered graves against tens of thousands slaughtered with no grave other than the ceilings of their own homes.
What we can’t do is conflate the LACK of support for Independence as support for Unionism. The hard core of Unionists are exactly that. And they are the same people who, despite being working class, will vote Tory and many of their number are supportive of Orangism. Were it not for Scotland’s shameful history around that I think we’d already be independent..
I’d suggest, ‘Orangism’, Unionism and Scottish incomers are one of the primary reasons Ireland is not unified. Many apparent parallels with Palestine and Israel …
El Dee, it’s not a shameful history – it’s a history of unionist brainwashing.
This is from YouGov which has been repeatedly slagged off in these pages.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/?s=yougov
Perhaps they’ve changed since.
“Perhaps they’ve changed since.”
One would hope not. It is precisely because YouGov are like that that this poll is striking: if even YouGov is publishing these results, then there must be something behind it. Do I really have to point this out?
Craig makes a valid point highlighting different viewpoints prevalent between Scots and English primarily, which may reflect different forms of nationalist ideology and their related dominant cultural values.
‘British unionism’ is considered an ideological nationalism of its own, which manufactures ‘a culturally-intertwined political identity’ (Pettigrew 2016). Zionism appears not dissimilar in some, but not other respects. Religion aside, both depend to some extent on forging different ethnic groups into one, also through the process we know from postcolonial theory as ‘cultural assimilation’.
The basis of these ‘offensive’ nationalist ideologies is their cultural values, core beliefs etc on matters of what is considered ‘good’ or ‘right’. This is where they differ markedly from the values of respective oppressed groups seeking liberation from such offensive and hence oppressive nationalism, no matter whether in N.Ireland, Scotland or Palestine; the latter’s focus relates to ‘defensive nationalism’, or what might be termed ‘self-determination nationalism’, where a people only become ‘nationalists’ in order to free themselves from colonial oppression.
Genocide may be a rapid or a slow process, depending it seems, to some extent, on the situation, and the values of an oppressor, which will not necessarily include much in the way of human values (Cesaire).
I think the discussion on Palestine will be too little too late. Israeli leadership have made it clear they are pursuing the removal of Palestinians from Gaza entirely, to Egypt or other countries. Also, their occupation of the West Bank. US political arm-twisting will likely see an outcome along these lines. There is no two state solution in the offing at all.
Well- from an article shown on RT the other day this may be the reason why Gaza has to be cleared:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wY1LlkskTc
As they say ‘ Follow the money’
Not aware of the history of this at all.
TBF the Lib Dems position is less obnoxious than Tories and Labour: Lib Dem amendment .
Alf Baird, as ever hits the nail on the head. The English have a real problem understanding ‘nationalism’, to the extent that they cannot see their atavistic ‘British’ (really Greater English) nationalism as ‘nationalism’ at all.
This was perhaps best illustrated by George Orwell who wrote : “..nationalism is always part of a drive for power at the expense of others”.
As an old Etonian English nationalist, Orwsell failed to see his own nationalism as nationalism at all – whilst simultaneously describing its nature perfectly. Rule of others by the English is just the ‘natural state of affairs’. Normality.
Like Orwell, most English people fail to make a distinction between imperial nationalism – which imposes its nationalism on other peoples and cultures – and self-determination (or ‘defensive’) nationalism – where colonised people struggle to reclaim their sovereignty from those imperial nationalists who have stolen it (and their country) from them.
As a Scot of mixed Scottish and Irish heritage I recognise and applaud the latter – as do most Palestinians.
In Ireland and Palestine there is a shared experience and understanding of the long-term consequences of perfidious English imperialist nationalism – now increasingly shared and recognised in Scotland, and in no small measure assisted by Alf Baird, whose excellent book:
Doun-Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doun-Hauden-Socio-Political-Determinants-Scottish-Independence/dp/B086Y6MMH2/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
spells out our predicament, and outlines an escape route, and why we wish the same for Palestine.
Well said John O’Dowd
I was just in the process of trying to determine if the story about veterans being told/advised not to wear their medals on the way to the Cenotaph was a falsehood – as reported in the Sun and GB News a day or two before the demo – when I came across the following article in The Independent from six days ago (the day of the protest) headlined: ‘‘The act of remembering has got lost’: Veterans on if protests are putting them off attending the Cenotaph this weekend’. The article is interesting for a number of reasons, but the key thing is that there is no mention of veterans having been told or advised not to wear their medals on the way to the Cenotaph (and there doesn’t appear to be an article specifically in relation to such in The Independent, or The Guardian, and it seems highly unlikely they wouldn’t have covered such a story if it was legitimate…… hardly any of the MSM came up in the results when I did a general search re >veterans told not to wear medals on way to Cenotaph<). Anyway, here's an extract from the article:
Former Royal Marines Commando Ben McBean, from Plymouth, managed to recover from stepping on a Taliban landmine in 2008. 12 months later he ran the London Marathon despite losing two of his limbs. He did it again the year after.
On his Remembrance Day plans, he said: “I don’t know what I’m going to do.
“For me as a veteran, it’s the one time I can meet up with 10,000 people who are in the same boat as me.
“I can’t just go there to pay my respects because it always turns into a massive blowout.
“Lots of s*** goes on after and people let it all out.
“I don’t think I can spend the entire week after picking up the pieces.”
On the planned pro-Palestinian march on Saturday, he said: “Apparently it’s nowhere near where the Cenotaph is.
“If protesters start kicking off in the middle of our minute’s silence then, yeh, that is out of order but if they are just stood there then who cares?”
In a video statement on Wednesday, former English Defence League (EDL) leader and convicted fraudster Tommy Robinson told followers: “We’re going there to show respect and to make sure that there is respect shown at our Cenotaph”.
The far-right activist added his followers would be “prepared to defend if we need to defend – because that’s what men do”.
On Tommy Robinson’s offer of protection, Mr McBean added: “I think we can look after ourselves, to be honest.
The (23) comments are well worth reading too:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/veterans-cenotaph-march-palestine-london-b2445257.html#comments-area
Juxtaposing the dead of the world wars with those of the post-1945 wars of racial extermination is an obscenity. Wearing medals from those wars or to desecrate the Cenotaph is wrong.
I really don’t understand why you would ‘juxtapose’ a post about several million or more people being duped and deceived – as they more-than-likely were – and led to believe that veterans were in danger of being assaulted and attacked by protesters on their way to the Cenotaph, with veterans of post 1945 wars wearing their medals (if they have any). I mean to concoct and contrive something like that is just pure evil, and doubly so.
I mean it doesn’t even mention medals in the article.
I certainly agrée that that western countries are complicit with Israel ‘s indiscriminate killing. But I personally refuse to take sides between Israel and Palestine. Clearly, the extremists on both sides have hijacked the agenda. The only real question is, what would a just, peaceful and stable middle east look like, and how do we get there?
Israel has chosen permanent war, ever since 1948, and refused to make a deal. You don’t get to a ‘just, peaceful and stable middle east’ that way. Israeli supremacy means no peace.
I would not include shimon peres or yzak Rabin in your description. They sincerely wanted peace, and came very close. Rabin paid for it with his life. How to seize back the agenda from the extremists, that is the question.
Israeli leaders who wanted peace are very rare. Rabin was one, Abba Eban was another, but in no case was their policy pursued. Peres, I didn’t have that impression.
The zionist occupation of Palestine can only continue by crimes against peace, crimes against humanity and war crimes. Two down, one to go.
” how do we get there?”
Surely Mr Chater, the first step would be stop the killing?
Bear in mind one set of “extremists” has the full panoply of modern war at their disposal, backed by several hundred atomic bombs and the military support from the wealthiest, most technologically advanced global polities whilst the other has AK’s and jerry-rigged artillery shells and fight from their prison, with no outside military support
“Clearly, the extremists on both sides have hijacked the agenda.”
James Chater.
Extremists that quite a claim, the Palestinians have a right via UN resolutions to take back what the Zionists stole from them via armed violence, the Israeli’s don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to whose land it is.
” UN General Assembly resolution 37/43 adopted in 1982. ”
https://nitter.net/kennardmatt/status/1710609969085554916#m
Everyone knows that if the US taxpayer wasn’t funding the oppressive apartheid military regime known as Israel the Palestinians would’ve taken back what is rightfully theirs years ago.
IMO.
Either, 1) a new state (Greater Canaan) is created that encompasses Palestine and includes Israel where everyone has exactly the same democratic rights;
Or, 2) Israel continues as a seperate state but with its borders definitively defined and recognised by everyone (Israel, Palestine, US, Iran, UN, etc.).
My small brain cannot see anyother viable solutions.
Stevie Boy.
In my opinion point one is a non-starter I think the time of both Israeli/Zionist and Palestinian living side by side in the same country has past there’s just too much pain and anger in the mix.
Point two I agree with, a type of two-state solution is the best way forward, however how will the Zionists be made to cede some of the land that they’ve stolen when the US the EU and the dis-untied kingdom are backing them to the hilt? add to the mix that its always reported in the complaint Western media that its the Palestinians who wouldn’t want the two-state solution, when its quite clear that the Zionists don’t even see them (Palestinians as human) let alone give up land they stolen to help create a new sovereign Palestine.
Also and just as important, as long as Zionist lobby groups have a huge influence on US M.E policies which protect Israel and attack its critics and enemies then they’ll be no two-state solution, and the US captured EU, and dis-untied kingdom will follow the USA’s lead, the latter two having both been heavily influenced by Zionists agenda.
IMO. the example of South Africa shows that given sufficient time all apartheid states fail. Israel in its current incarnation cannot, and will not survive. It may take another 50 years or more but it will change or disappear. Biden will die, Trump will die, Netanyahu will die. In the meantime, the carnage will continue. However, it’s not just affecting the Palestinians, it’s also affecting the Israelis. They will never have a normal life whilst their government acts like fascists. How long will they be able to put up with living as global pariahs and targets?
“how do we get there?”
Simple, kick out all the meddlers from Europe and America.
Fair play to Humza. It took balls in this political climate to demonstrate human compassion and stand up for truth. Online abuse from anonymous racists and turds like Douglas Murray is the very least of it. He knew that among the British political-media class, the foghorns, it is basically considered extremism to not believe everything said by serial liars Netanyahu and Joe Biden. That is the sick political and media environment in which he exists.
Hands up, who knew Humza had family in Gaza prior to 7th Oct? Who knows now?
What was the SNP position on Palestine prior to 7th Oct?
Not sure if it’s balls or bollox, though it’s certainly politics.
It’s funny to hear Scots paint themselves as victims of colonisation. The Scots freely joined the Union for their own selfish financial reasons. Of course Scots were also at the forefront of investment in slavery and colonisation of the rest of the World, and grew rich off the back of it. The colonisation of the Northern Ireland by Scots has also lapsed from the national recollection
The SNP could have made the best, almost indefensible case for Independence. By proving a government of exceptional competence and professionalism and implementing numerous policies that provided real tangible improvements to the lives of ordinary Scots, the SNP could have demonstrated that they were a grown up government ready to take the reins of an independent nation
Instead the SNP delivered gross incompetence, dysfunction and failure. They ruined everything they touched and made people’s lives worse. They fixated on woke while public services went down the lavatory bowl.
To try to exploit a bloody conflict in the Middle East and the suffering of human beings to mask the failure and corruption of the SNP is shameful and morally disgusting.
Thank you Marcus, I have to say that whilst I support Murray’s thesis that there’s blood on everyone’s hands when your leaders are not held to account for their misdeeds, and I write about this below, in the Ukraine context, the major thrust of this article, collating the happenings in the Middle East with the push for Scottish Independence, made me uncomfortable. Your writing has helped crystallise this though I’d not go on to suggest the article is exploitive, misguided perhaps, you cogently point to some uncomfortable Scottish truths that are worth recalling. Others will probably disagree, but a robust opinion honestly expressed is nothing to apologise for.
John Monro, if only Marcus knew what he was talking about but he doesn’t. You appear to be afflicted with the same lack of knowledge. I suggest you go read about the history of who signed Scotland up for the union. It certainly was not the Scottish people. Fewer than a hundred nobles and lords did it, the strife and pain it caused nearly all the Scottish people lasted 190 years.
It’s such a common error to make, that of conflating the people of a country with their government, that it often seems not worth it to point it out. Full marks for making the effort.
Marcus Leach you said, “It’s funny to hear Scots paint themselves as victims of colonisation. The Scots freely joined the Union for their own selfish financial reasons”.
I’m Scottish. I know Scottish history; it’s clear that you do not.
Only 80 lords in the then Scottish parliament made the decision that Scotland should join the union.
There were revolts and protests and many, many skirmishes between Scottish people and the thousands of English soldiers sent to Scotland to take control. Scottish people had their land and possessions confiscated for their revolt.
You go on to make other incorrect conclusions too, which really does show your lack of knowledge.
Colonialism is always ‘a co-operative venture with native elites’ (Fanon) and Scotland wis nae different. Elites took the bribes and enslaved their nation, and the same elites an mair even today ‘are pensioned off at a ransom price’. Through such mechanisms colonial procedures, often obscured, may take effect. It is not at all difficult to apply postcolonial theory to Scotland’s longstanding ‘condition’, tho the UN definition of self-determination independence as ‘decolonization’ also provides a wee clue:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/
“Where there have been pro-Israeli demonstrations, they have been remarkably white”
— Craig Murray 2023
“The conquest of the earth, which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion or slightly flatter noses than ourselves, is not a pretty thing when you look into to it too much”
— Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness, 1899
“The UK government is a part of committing genocide in Gaza.”
More than a part, without the UK governments support I suggest the implementation of the genocide and ethnic cleansing would be very difficult for the zionist scum. The UK base in Cyprus is the primary hub for the genocide of Palestine. See:
https://www.declassifieduk.org/u-s-military-is-secretly-supplying-weapons-to-israel-using-uk-base-on-cyprus/
There’s a big pro-Palestinian demo this Saturday at Glasgow Green, it starts at 1pm, if you can get yourselves down there and show solidarity with the oppressed Palestinians, Stop the Slaughter via ceasefire should be our main priority.
On the Zionist flag wavers/unionists/right wing nutters, I recall that they have a penchant to fly the Israeli flag at Rangers FC’s football stadium Ibrox Park, whereas their great rivals Celtic FC, whose ground is called Celtic Park fans fly the Palestinian flag, well they did until the hierarchy banned certain groups from doing so, an act that in my opinion will come back to haunt them.
I also think that sport has always been political even moreso in today’s world.
Thanks for your writing. I too went to one large demonstration in London. I got into some trouble with my own family when I wrote them, via WhatsApp, about the Michael von der Schulenburg’s report in regard to the missed chance for peace in Ukraine https://michael-von-der-schulenburg.com/how-the-chance-was-lost-for-a-peace-settlement-of-the-ukraine-war/ I went on about the blood on Johnson’s hands, and by extension, ours. This was strongly “pushed back” on as they say nowadays, that we cannot take on the crimes of other people this way, and I am wrong to take this on myself (I do get stressed and anxious) . I was provided with a counter argument, to which I think I have an answer, however, I have not argued back, family arguments can be difficult, and I love my family, but in that these “leaders” say they are acting on our behalf, and we do nothing to stop them or don’t pay attention or are careless as to what is done in our name, and just get on with our lives in happy ignorance buying the beer at the pub or jetting off to Ibitha whilst thousands are dying “in our name”, then we must be in some ways complicit, and there is more blood then just sticks to Johnson’s hands.. I concur with you and I am pleased to hear this moral complicity voiced by you. .
My writing to my family
This report, lead by Michael von der Schulenburg (a former assistant UN Secretary General and should be taken serious note of) confirms what I’ve ranted on about all along in regard to the Ukraine war, NATO’s culpability in provoking Russia, and deliberately preventing any diplomatic solution, assuring Ukraine’s total ruination. Johnson’s intervention in Ukraine means he has blood on his hands, as do they all, and by extension, all of us. You will never read or hear of this report in our media – including the BBC . Why did we do something so cynical and cruel,? One reason I’ve advanced is because we thought we’d win, the “shock and awe” sanctions and the war would bring Russia down and force regime change, and we know from Biden himself and others that this is what we planned – they actually said it out loud – America’s hegemony is not for challenge by anyone, especially Russia and China. Our mistake, like Hitler’s and Napoleon’s, not learning from the disasters of history, we almost comically underestimated Russia. ……..Eventually even the Ukrainians will come to understand that far from helping Ukraine, we betrayed them, and Zelensky and his regime were at the same time both the betrayers and the betrayed, a truly Shakespearian tragedy..
A picture today of our recycled Foreign Secretary shaking Zelensky’s hand just makes me want, like the puteketeke, to puke. His support for Ukraine -“for however long it takes” a totally vacuous, cynical pledge. David, you will know “as long as it takes” means just as long as Biden and the US tells you, and that might be sooner than you think. Cameron it was who enthusiastically promoted the bombing of Libya, the murder of Gaddafi and helped precipitate the migration crisis from Africa that the still in power Tory government he is again part of is in chaos trying to stem. The ironies of history are legion and mostly very cruel. .
That same migration crisis which has been such a Godsend to the Tory government.
“Here in Scotland I have been impressed by Humza Yousaf, the Scottish First Minister, for his calm and serious reaction to the Gaza genocide and his unequivocal call for a ceasefire.”
Yes and I agree that he’s done the decent thing, however we both know that the SNP are onto a hiding come the GE, this siding with the ceasefire by Yousaf and Flynn in my opinion has also got an ulterior motive to ingratiate the Scottish public back to voting for the SNP come the next GE.
RepublicofScotland, you are guessing or using the English newspapers as your gauge for the demise of SNP. I can assure you that when the chips are down the majority of seats will go to SNP. People in Scotland are very much aware that Conservative and Labour are the same Lib Dem too – we didn’t need Starmer to prove this – we have known it since bettertogether times and tactical voting. But I am not surprised at your comments: you have always been wolf in sheep’s clothing about Scottish independence along with your pal Scottish skier.
We are not fooled.
Ha, ha Terence – that comment made me laugh. If you still believe that the SNP are a party for Scottish independence firstly under Sturgeon and Yousaf, then you truly are deluded.
The SNP has become a colonial administration. It’s quite content to govern Scotland. It’s now a party full of careerist and troughers with absolutely no intention of achieving what it was created for – namely, dissolving the union.
“The SNP has become a colonial administration”
Indeed so RoS, and the long since infiltrated SNP’s deceit in delaying independence is what has intentionally caused the rupture in the movement. Much as postcolonial theory predicts the behaviour of a dominant national party, which ‘lacks courage at the decisive moment’, notably after the UKGE in 2015 and the election of 56 nationalist MPs in Scotland (just 3 ‘for’ the union!); instead the party ‘draws ever closer to colonialism’ and ‘holds the people back’, becoming ‘an instrument of coercion’. This is a sickening realisation indeed, for at least half the membership who have since departed the party, with the mass of the people still wondering about the purpose of its ‘mystifying’ policies whilst the most urgent matter, liberation of the people, is no longer prioritised.
“Indeed so RoS, and the long since infiltrated SNP’s ”
Perhaps a culture which acknowledges the reality of such tactics would be more able to resist them.
Ah but Alf, Yousaf has said if we get 29 SNP MPs at the next GE this will be enough to push for indy. Of course, Sturgeon had 56 MPs as you say and it led to nowhere. Yousaf and Co must think that we’re all stupid.
Even Alex Salmond has given up on the SNP: recently he said that Alba will stand candidates in as many constituencies as possible. The SNP had their chance to do the right thing; instead they betrayed us.
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
“The SNP has become a colonial administration, its quite content to govern Scotland, its now a party full of careerist and troughers with absolutely no intention of achieving what it was created for namely dissolving the union.”
That may be true, but is it going to stop people voting for them instead of the Red and Blue Tories?
Is it any wonder POTUS Biden refuses point blank to call for a ceasefire on Gaza, here he openly calls for the murder of women and children, I’d like to say I’m shocked at this, but I’m not.
https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1725416473441804361#m
Biden’s 50 year political career had shown he was a miscreant of the first order. one of the worst human beings to have held high office in the west. the mass media buried that career which exposed his essence as a man. they did it so thoroughly that when he was elected President young black people danced in the streets of US cities. that is the power of propaganda by omission.
“SNP and Alba party MPs walked together through the Westminster lobby to support a ceasefire in Gaza, while the leadership of Tory, Labour and Liberal parties all voted for more killing.”
This presumes that a ceasefire would lead to Hamas stopping its murder of Israelis and Jews, which is a dubious presumption at best.
Wow..
What would most likely lead to Hamas stopping its murder of Israelis and Jews would be if both parties agreed to:
1. Stop stealing land
2. Stop stealing or bulldozing homes
3. Stop destroying farms
4. Stop killing people
And please don’t get back to me whining Yeahbutnobut that’s not fair because we have to give up FOUR and they only have to give up ONE…
tdf
Historically palestinians have often kept ceasefires while Israel have not.
This is like a 5 week rape where the perpetrator agree to “humanitarian pauses”, it is pathological.
As the special reporter on occupied palestinian territories said the other day:
Francesca Albanese: ‘Four hours of ceasefire before bombing again is very cynical and cruel’
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FtpQxQfX4s8?cbrd=1
The discourse should not be framed around a “ceasefire” but a forceful demand that Israel stop its senseless brutalization of Gaza.
Although it doesn’t feel like it due to our short lifespans, a few millennia of ‘civilization’ is a flash in the pan.
Cities are predicated on ever increasing energy consumption. The discovery of fossil fuels (FF) caused explosive growth of cities, populations, food and resource use etc. all over the planet. Humans evolved to use as much energy/gather as many resources as possible.
Inevitably, over time, energy and resources have become more expensive/harder to access. The upwards part of the exponential growth curve has a right hand side – a downwards part. This manifests as a reduction in prosperity. Barring the (very unlikely) discovery of some new energy source, things will only get worse from here onwards. ‘Renewable’ energy is a total non-starter – it requires FF to build and maintain the infrastructure, and its energy density is nowhere near enough to replace FF (even if it could be built and maintained without them).
The point (at last) is, the PTB know all this. They know the game’s up. That’s what all the ‘Smart Cities’, Test & Trace, ‘covid’ lockdowns, anti-protest laws, increasing surveillance and censorship etc. are all about.
The Palestinians are the test subjects for technologies that will eventually be used even in ‘democracies’.
Chris Hedges has a good article on it here: https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israel-is-shutting-down-its-human?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
So it doesn’t matter what depths of evil the Israeli regime stoops to (killing nurses and patients with snipers, wtf?), they will always have the full support of our wonderful leaders.
So it doesn’t matter what depths of evil the Israeli regime stoops to (killing nurses and patients with snipers, wtf?), they will always have the full support of our wonderful leaders.
Indeed, but not only that, the palestinians are also let down by 22 arab states (not to mention almost 60 islamic countries) which is even worse in my view.
Yemen’s pro-palestinian Houti movement summed it up good:
Yemen’s Ansarullah chief calls on Arab leaders, Muslim world to take clear stance against Israeli genocide in Gaza
“In the face of the major tragedy that the Palestinian people [have been suffering] for more than 70 years, a limited and weak stance has been shown by over a billion Muslims,” he lamented. “Arab regimes are losing seriousness and do not have the will to act seriously towards Gaza.”
“Although the Arab-Islamic Summit was an emergency meeting of 57 countries, it did not come up with a position or practical action, and this is shameful and sad,” Houthi said.
“The summit that claimed to represent all Muslims only produced statements with no practical stance. Is this capability of over a billion and a half Muslims?” he added. “Fifty-seven Arab and Islamic countries, with all their … capabilities, came out with a statement that could have been issued by a primary school and by one person.”
https://parstoday.ir/en/news/west_asia-i217564-yemen%E2%80%99s_ansarullah_chief_calls_on_arab_leaders_muslim_world_to_take_clear_stance_against_israeli_genocide_in_gaza
I do not get this passive, or rather now the open complicity by arab states with US/Israel war on Gaza. What is in it for them? They have all the money in the world so it surely be that no? What secret deal could possibly be behind their treasonous behavior or are they posing how “mature” they have become to the west by not adhering to aggressive anti-israeli statements/acts?
Initially I thought they were silent because the schism that is between Hamas and Arab leaders, but then, when Israel began waging war against the Westbank/Palestinian Authority – their allied – they are still silent??
All their condemnations are worth nothing, they are part of this war, they had so many chances to put the breaks on things but no, nothing was done.
Nothing shall be left seems to be the Zionist approach. They bulldozed the monument to Yasser Arafat in the West Bank a few days ago – Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 along with Yitshak Rabin, and Shimon Peres all strove for a two-state solution.
It’s more than likely Arafat was poisoned with Polonium, and the dirty deed was carried out by Israel. George Galloway swears blind that Arafat was poisoned by Polonium, he was at his bedside when he (Arafat) died.
https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/Yasser_Arafat