I have frequently explained that when I sat in the International Court of Justice and heard Israel’s lawyers tell lie after lie to justify or excuse the Gaza genocide, I could feel I was palpably in the presence of evil.
At least in the Hague you could also feel and indeed observe that most people in the courtroom – including the majority of the judges – were repulsed by the evil.
Yesterday that same evil, and the same lies, was manifested in the US Congress by Netanyahu, to an audience which glorified, reflected and amplified that evil.
Let us not forget that the large majority of citizens of the world, including majorities in many Western countries with pro-genocide leadership classes, are indeed repulsed by and reject the genocide.
The United States has now, openly and before the entire world, endorsed its genocidal imperialist project and rejected both the very notion of international law and the institutions which a more idealistic American generation worked so hard to create – the United Nations and the International Court of Justice.
Netanyahu’s slanderous attacks on the institutions of international law were applauded to the rafters by America’s political leaders. The whole world was watching, and took note.
The Zionist project per se is evil. To steal another people’s land and subject them to long and progressive genocide is about as evil a deed as can be imagined.
There is no such thing as a moderate or progressive Zionist. Apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide are fundamental to the entire Zionist project.
I am hopeful that for an entire younger generation around the world, any notion that the United States are the “good guys” has now been destroyed. The reduction of international relations to USA = good guys vs Russia and China = bad guys was never true.
In Europe I am also hopeful that this will lead to a more widespread realisation that NATO is anything but a force for peace and stability, that the destruction of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan was a series of terrible crimes, and that Ukraine/Russia is massively more complicated than the media would have you believe.
We always have hope, we always have courage, and we always have determination. The fight for truth and freedom never ends.
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Over and over again, Palestine exposes the total moral bankruptcy of the Western political class. Human rights, democracy, the rule of law… all of their mantras are exposed as farce.
But these 58 congressional standing ovations for a genocidal war criminal sought by the ICC must be the nadir. Photos from the event will appear in future history books to illustrate the capture and eventual collapse of US government institutions in the final days of US empire. The disgraced members of the House and Senate who dutifully facilitated and cheered the monster Netanyahu will be studied as examples of the moral depravity and corruption that hastened this result.
I agree with every word you have said and am thankful for your bravery. Sadly the USA is openly supported and encouraged in their illegal actions by UK governments who appear to be in thrall of the Zionists.
I would encourage everyone to look at Al Jazeera and Double Down news for accurate unbiased and honest reporting .
Also read books by many diverse authors helping to explain the past 4.5 years including ‘One Nation under Blackmail’ and ‘Covid and the Global Predators’.
It is an astonishing abdication of any shred of ethics or humanity by these crazed US representatives. Cheering to the rafters a criminal, a thug, a mass murderer, a gargantuan liar and fraud, a man whose one concern is to save a skin by following a doctrine of total, endless war and who demands that the US taxpayer finances the extermination of Palestinians by an infinite supply of weapons of mass destruction, entirely against the interests of US citizens. A gangster, a grifter and an utterly evil little man. Would the US cheer Pol Pot to the same extent? What is the difference? That image should never be forgotten. It is utterly abject, appalling and supine. Who are these senators representing? They are certainly not representing America or Americans. Their degree of brainwashed sycophancy, their utter ignorance, their pathetic eagerness to be used and abused by Israel (in return for large cash donations), should be repellent to everybody, inside and outside the US.
Agree that this was a display of evil but exactly how many US representatives were there? I have read on X that many stayed away and incredibly their seats were taken by staffers to give the appearance of a full house. Anybody know the truth of this and are lists published anywhere of those who stayed away and those who attended? If the seat packing is confirmed that really is the epitome of Nazi propaganda.
“Who are these senators representing?” Obviously, themselves and their bank accounts. They’ve been paid millions from the lobby to clap like seals for their paymaster.
Indeed, agreed, totally.
Extremely well put Craig, thank you.
As a child of the ’70s I never thought for one second that I would live to see times like these, yet here we are.
I do believe, however, that Russia and China are working, and with daily increasing influence and power, for the rehabilitation of the UN and international law, and, of course, we all must do what we can to support that.
The only way the Zionists’ genocide will be stopped is by force.
I wish But Who’s Force
Yes – I am not sure that “evil” in itself exists, but we all have instincts that tell us that some things and some people are dangerous and need to be called out now. Calling that a reaction to Evil is not misleading.
I can assure you it does. I could write a very long book about my personal experiences with evil people and at the hands of evil people over the course of the past 38 years. And believe me, evil people just lurve being evil.
Scottish councils have blood on their hands.
“SPECIAL REPORT: Scottish council investment in key Israel arms supplier soars 12-fold”, by James Walker (The National, 25 Jul 2024)
https://archive.is/7n7wr
Didn’t some Zionists buy land from the locals or the absent Ottomans? Less productive land in some cases. Or is that by definition not Zionism, not colonial?
Look over there, a squirrel!
Classic colonial ethnic cleansing has been going on in that cuckoo state since its foundation. It is happening right now in the most inhuman fashion imaginable, with the full approval of the “good guys”, if you only care to see.
Jews in Israel can and do buy land from non-Jews. But Jews in Israel are legally prohibited from ever selling land to non-Jews. Another example of Zionist apartheid.
Very little land was bought. It was nearly all confiscated after 1948.
Grated Ape, yes there were land purchases. Many, but the largest was from the Greek Orthodox Sursuk clan, largely resident in Paris who had acquired a huge domain in exchange to the (fiscally much embarassed) Sublime Porte for loans. The Ottoman regime subsequently blocked nearly land sales through to its collapse to the Empire in 1918. The British Empire then opened the door again and the sales began in earnest. The Sursuk purchases were accompanied by the demand for the forced eviction of the native population by the buyers, the largest of whom being the Jewish National Fund and the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association.
As to your question, ‘is that zionism, colonialism’ I suspect the answer is in the name.
Closer to home, that process – purchase, forced eviction and migration of tenant communities, repopulation with compliant dependent labour, extermination of ‘stragglers’ – has a loud resonance with both the Plantation of Ulster and Munster, and later the Gaelic speaking Highland region.
Yes, but the purchases were only a small proportion of Palestine.
I see there were over half a million Jews in the region up to 1948, where did they live? Was twice as many Palestinians. Then after war it was reversed of course.
https://www.palestineremembered.com/Maps/index.html
Contains most of the info you’re asking about. In short, (1945) Jaffa and the strip from Haifa to Lake Tiberias; but they were in minority even in those areas.
Thanks for your informative replies Mike T
I guess it just seems that a lot of Jews were there legitimately, given that like anywhere the property world indulges lording it over others. Either no-fault or as victors in conflict (British over Ottoman empire). And I don’t know how it’s supposed to be decided then, the rights and wrongs of locally surrounding countries trying to invade and gain back territory, and the new Israel’s response, and how that should somehow be replayed as seems to be the plea of the Nakba’d. Which can be amplified by those same surrounding countries and religious alliances.
The Zionist State Terrorist groups has no ligitmay in occupied Palestine. The acquisition of title to approximately 6.7% of Palestine doesn’t provided the Zionist State Terrorist group anything but the rights of use of that Land.
The naked racism on display is breathtaking, If I bought the houses to either side of yours, the house in front and behind. Would you support my right to murder you and live in your home? ” And I don’t know how it’s supposed to be decided then, the rights and wrongs”..
The Palestians own 93% of Palestine. The Zionist still occupy only 7% of Palestine, so its simply a matter of returning the Land to it’s rightful Palestinian owners, and prosecuting the Zionist State Terrorist group members, supporters, apologists, advocates, financiers for their complicity in crimes against humanity.
They should serve their time in the country of Origin, Palestine has been polluted with their presence long enough.
Racism?
Polluted?
I thought Ottoman landlords owned most of it before the UN passed it to Britain who passed it on about 50:50 to locals. By then there were over half a million Jews Vs about twice as many non, but then the Jewish land was invaded if I’m not mistaken.
Apparently due to the naval blockade, the Ottomans allowed companies to divert food from the renting peasants to their soldiers, resulting in:
“With peasants unable to pay taxes, Ottoman leaders – under pressure from capitalist families in Beirut – took away peasants’ rights to land and gave temporary rights to the Levantine companies for growing food. When the British were handed the mandate for the administration of Palestine at the end of the war, its officials upheld Levantine companies’ claims to the land, ignoring Palestinians who came forward with their own ownership claims to land, buildings and homes.”
So it wasn’t Jews what did it, it was Arab companies enabled by Turks and Brits?
If I want your house, can I kill your mum and move in? How about if I can find a grandparent from the former Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth or am willing to undergo an approved Halachic conversion?
Palestine belongs to Palestinians who’s land claims with titles are the basis of the Sales recorded. 93% of Palestine still belongs to Palestinians. Britain invaded in 1917 imported a terrorist group, which it armed financed, protected and trained for thirty years, while disarming the population leaving them defenceless when the Zionist State Terrorist began the two year campaign of rape, mass murder, and expulsion called the Nakba. 1947-1949.
Nobody gave Zionists anything, between 1947-1949 they stole 71% of Palestine, in 1967 they stole the rest, but the thief never becomes the owner. It’s never been theirs, and you cannot compel recognition, they have no legitimacy as the Palestinians have the right of self-determination as a People, and the Zionists don’t as they are a US sponsored Terrorist group.
The presence of rapists, murders, Apartheid, Genocide, organ traffickers pollutes the society. The disrespect shown by the Zionists to the land pollutes the soil. Zionism is a disgusting racist ideology based on subjugating Palestinians.
It’s Hurrah for the Blackshirts! writ large. Israel itself wouldn’t give the butcher of Gaza a reception of this sort.
People like Starmer should be asked if he seriously believes the politicians the world saw applauding Netanyahu are the “good guys”, as people like him always insist they are.
Sadly Britain does not have the type of journalists who would ever ask someone like him such a vital and obvious question.
D: “Sadly Britain does not have the type of journalists who would ever ask someone like him such an important and obvious question.”
Of course, because they’re screened out to make sure they don’t ask questions like that (which would be scoffingly dismissed in any case, with plenty of tut-tutting all round about the impudence and silliness of such a notion). And if they did, they’d never be allowed to ask a question again. And they all know it.
Well, it may have had some truth before 1945.
Part of the reason for Japan’s attack on the USA was response to American pressure aimed at curtailing Japan’s brutal invasion and occupation of China. The Japanese atrocities against Chinese were appalling; the USA, to its credit, tried to at least discourage Japanese expansionism in China by economic sanctions, which were unusually effective.
Yet Townsman Europe schooled Japan in imperialism – Britain helped establish the Imperial Japanese Navy, supplying state of the art Capital ships like “Kongo” (Built in Barrow-in-Furness in 1911, this ship served until 1945 when it was sunk by submarine) and several other vessel capable of Imperial domination, along with technical expertise and her peerless maritime knowledge. Japanese military shipyards were founded or improved with British help. At the start of the 1920’s America and the British Empire was allied with Japan until 1922. Near 100,000 Japanese troops entered Russia’s Far East, as part of the western military intervention in the Russian Revolution. Japan’s attack on China was greatly facilitated by the Japanese Army’s sojourn in the Russian Maritime Province and in Siberia under the aegis of the League of Nations
After WW2 there were no war crimes trials for many guilty Japanese leaders, of waging “aggressive war” and of course none for those involved with germ warfare who consumed, at least, tens of thousands of lives in experiments with human subjects. In fact there are credible claims America turned this knowledge acquired from Japan on N.Korea in the Korean War.
The notion that Japan’s crimes in China, terrible as they were, were anything special does not fit with historical evidence. The British were using poison gas as a tool of Imperial policing in the early 1920’s. As Tom Welsh pointed out the other day on a previous thread, Teddy Roosevelt, amongst others, contributed to completing the genocide of the indigenous inhabitants of America at the turn of the century. Ethnic civilian slaughter were very much a manifestation of imperial power as we see today in occupied Palestine. Hitler hoped to do to the Slavic people, what America had done in their genocide, ditto the Japanese to the Chinese.
It don’t seem fair singling Japan out as a rabid dog, the whole pack of them are rabid
What you write is true, but my point was that for a short time long ago, the Americans were (relatively) “good guys”.
Yet when they were the good guys, they were the good white guys. I’m not sure they ever came close to their own definition of “good guys” except of course in Hollywood lol.
“Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
As the images unwind
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind”
— The Windmills of Your Mind, Noel Harrison
Good PR. I wonder who owned the media ?
All those westerns, the white hats beating the savage injuns.
Man on the moon, meanwhile all those dead koreans and vietnamese.
The American dream, cuba, dead nuns in south america.
WW2, maybe, though we had to pay for every single bullet used.
American people are the same as people everywhere, generally okay, but the government …
“ All those westerns, the white hats beating the savage injuns.”
If your are referring to Randolph Scott here Stevie Boy, I trust you took your hat off and if hatless you bowed your head a la Blazing Saddles – which apparently is now frowned on because elements of the script have aged poorly, though the Scott hat tip is still allowed to be mentioned I surmise
Japan launched its all-out invasion of China in 1937. As late as 1939 the US was providing 80 per cent of Japan’s oil, as well as other military use goods. It did not completely cease selling oil to Japan till July 1941
It also provided Franco with the oil and trucks that enabled his victory.
You use the word ‘evil’ 6 times in this short piece. I understand that it captures, perhaps uniquely so, the deep and visceral feeling of revulsion you experience. But I’m not comfortable with it. At root, it’s a theological term. And theology, in various forms, runs through the veins of Zionism, anti-semitism, and the chronic, and now acute, problems of the Middle East. Perhaps you are a man of faith, and the theological connotations of ‘evil’ are precisely what you intend. I share your horror and disgust at the actions of the Israeli state, and at the response of the US and other western democracies to those actions. I’d prefer to use a language which takes the theology, which is, in part, an ideological tool of violence, out of the analysis and to call out man’s capacity for barbarism without metaphysics.
No doubt psychologists and other scientists would reject the use of the term ‘evil’ and might capably offer ‘scientific’ explanations, but when the ‘spirit’ of genocide has taken over a whole country and people and is inflicted on another country and people as we are seeing now, I think if you were in the midst of the sick, relentless, mindless slaughter, death and destruction you might see it as evil.
But Craig Murray is not involved in that way. He is a passionate, and well-informed, observer, commentator, and campaigner. I’m not suggesting we use dispassionate language, just that we avoid unwittingly colluding in the theological rhetoric that is part of the problem.
There was also a protest against the Israeli premier in DC yesterday. One demonstrator bore a stereotypical image of the Devil bearing the name, “SATANYAHU”. Did the protester believe, literally, that the Prince of Darkness had become embodied in the person visiting Washington? Or was he presenting viewers with a metaphorical image of the ‘Beast’ being loudly cheered my crooks in Congress bought, and paid for by AIPAC and other US proxies of Israel?
If you confuse metaphor with metaphysics then you edge a little closer to the theological rhetoric of Biblical fundamentalists backing Donald Trump.
There’s quite a gap between the presumably rather obvious non-literal use of the name of Satan in the context you describe, and the use of the word ‘evil’ in the way it’s used in this article. I don’t like either of them because, as I said, I think we’re better off calling out inhumanity in exclusively secular terms. It’s precisely the confusion between metaphor and metaphysics that this would avoid, because one man’s metaphor is another man’s metaphysics as your point about Biblical fundamentalists illustrates. And whenever we slip into theological language, we invite all sides to adopt a position of absolute certainty and indivisible rights.
I think there is a perfectly clear understanding of the word ‘evil’ outside of its religious roots. That is of pure malice, complete disregard for the human life you designate as worthless, and a willingness to commit atrocities without any guilt, shame or even attempts to hide them. We have seen it scattered through history, to general disgust and horror, and we are now witnessing it unfold before our appalled eyes.
The usefulness of ‘evil’ is that it is concise, to the point, and describes the almost inconceivable disregard for life and thus its destruction, except for the chosen ones. There is no need to invoke religion. It also usefully encapsulates the fact that it is happening and that many ignore and downplay it. It is the opposite of reason, humanity and care. Other words don’t capture the pure malevolence of those who pursue it.
You summed it up perfectly Ian.
Thankyou.
The “Satanyahu” sign is directed towards the Christian fundamentalists in Congress who think they will be lifted up to heaven for supporting Israel and hopefully starting Armageddon.
Paul, it sounds like you want to be “left behind” lol
I prefer the term ‘political ponerology’ as distinct from ‘evil’. But yes, agree with Mr Murray’s post completely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ponerology
Another way of looking at it: God is a human invention, born (many times and in many guises over the millennia) in the human mind. Along with him comes notions of good and evil, right and wrong, justice and injustice etc. We created them all. Since evil is a human invention, it might be inappropriate to apply it to, say, the smallpox virus or the asteroid which destroyed the dinosaur’s Earth, but applying it to those who applaud genocide (and the USA is itself built on genocide) is merely pointing out that the kettle, like the pot, is black We are a sorry species and have proved ourselves capable of limitless evil. (And good, but this seems to be evil’s turn.)
“God is a human invention, born (many times and in many guises over the millennia) in the human mind.”
Bramble, you make a telling point here concerning humanity’s divine constructs. It brought this fragment from Joseph Conrad to my mind
“The mind of man is capable of anything—because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future.”
Recent neurological research has cast some light on this issue. Our brains through sensory input, model the world and we interact with the modelled reality in our heads – at no point, apparently, do we ever interact with the world or the things in it. German philosopher Thomas Metzger has written on this issue from a philosophical perspective in his book “The Ego Tunnel”. In explaining his thesis that there is no self, just a locus of attention that is in constant restless motion, he touches on these recent developments in neuropsychology, though without any great complexity, just enough to support his thesis.
Metzger suggests this unceasing locus of attention i.e. what we would call “the self” can be stilled in various ways and when it is, new perspectives can emerge from this cessation – leading, potentially, to new knowledge. The book is easy to read, though I’m still realising it’s implications – I first read it a decade or so ago but I have always been a slow learner lol
“Evil” derives from Proto-Germanic ubilaz, also meaning “evil”, and ultimately from a Proto-indoeuropean cognate of similar meaning. So, if it has roots in some religion, they are clearly far older than Christianity.
No it is not.
It has been used for centuries in secular contexts, for example Mark Antony’s speech in Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar: “The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones; so let it be with Caesar.”
Before about 1700, “evil” was more common than “bad” as the opposite of “good”. Link.
To talk of “evil” places the discussion in s certain context. The footage from the Capitol looked creepy in extremis – like Satan greeting the nobility of Hell lol. Like royalty he stopped and exchanged a few words with many or most of the assembled throng, at this, the moment of his triumph.
“Planes are bombing, destruction, destruction
Look the IDF is crossing the line
to annihilate the swastika-bearers
In another year there will be nothing there
And we will safely return to our homes
Within a year we will annihilate everyone”
— Friendship Song 2023
Is it fair to ask “who’s zooming who?” Does America control Israel or does Israel and its lobby control America? Is there any point to asking? According to George Galloway, seven Labour rebels are to be isolated and ostracised, never to be allowed back to their previous standing – to be excommunicated for heresy! But heresy to what? The economic architect of the Third Reich, Hjalmar Schacht, spoke with admiration in the 1930s of “the iron discipline” Hitler exerted over the Party. It looks like the “Fuhrerprinzip” is being applied to the Labour Party. The image of lockstep compliance is being demonstrated as this empire makes its own reality. The only response is to make your own. As Bill Shankly said about football (but I think applies here):
“It’s not a matter of life or death, it’s more important than that”
If we apply to Nethanyahu’s “coronation” the lexicon that has developed in the political imagery of the past century or so, consider the footage of Japan walking out of the League of Nations and all that followed after – the long road that led to the atomic strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This footage has similar pregnancy and portentousness and could only be amplified louder if Netanyahu was dressed “in the Purple” of long-gone, but clearly not forgotten, Byzantium. I guess an ethnically cleansed Jerusalem will serve as the capital of this newly declared imperium.
The truly incredible reception that the Israeli Prime Minister was accorded, is a clear message to the enemies of Israel. I guess this clears the way – now anything goes.
“Is it fair to ask “who’s zooming who?” Does America control Israel or does Israel and its lobby control America?”
Scott Ritter offers a cogent answer. He views the entire US political system, from the President down, as owned, bought and paid for by Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOBLK2uKeOU
Actually in this instance, IMO, it’s not so much Israel as the Jewish elite. A lot of the rich Jews that fund the political establishment are not necessarily Israeli but they may support its existence.
Also, Israel essentially exists on USA money, so the lobby mechanism is a form of Laundromat. Same as Ukraine and all USA ‘aid’. (and the housing maket and private sector in the UK – democracy ?)
Yet the Christian Zionists are an important factor in this equation Stevie Boy – both rich and poor.
A confluence of interests can be offered to explain the phenomenon; I don’t think the only lens to view this is that of ethnicity
Sorry, it’s from nevermind
I could not watch it, it made me feel sick. That evil man must be stopped. I hope that someone takes his/her chance and sends him to hell.
Re: ‘Netanyahu’s slanderous attacks on the institutions of international law were applauded to the rafters by America’s political leaders.’
Not by all of the US’s political leaders. Obviously Biden wasn’t there, but neither was Vice-President Kamala Harris (who may well be the next president) in her capacity as Senate President; she had an important event at a sorority to attend, seemingly. Overall, about half the Senate & House Democrats didn’t attend (along with a handful of Republicans), and of those that did, several pointedly refused to applaud – and one, Rashida Tlaib, held up a sign saying ‘War Criminal’.
I was also intrigued to see Elon Musk in the upper gallery, next to our host’s fellow clansman Douglas and behind Bibi’s Mrs and freed hostage Noa Argamani. He didn’t look particularly thrilled to be there – I wonder what the Israelis have got on him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)
Biden/Harris have mocked international law over Gaza. Genocidal freaks.
Thanks for your reply, frankywoggles. Biden isn’t aware of what he’s doing half the time; he’s just reading words that other people have written on a teleprompter. As regards Kamala Harris – whose position was once described as not being worth a pitcher of warm piss – her decision as an upcoming presidential nominee to snub Bibi was a big deal, and will have been noted in many places. Recent US administrations have done far worse than supply weapons to Israel – this, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inherent_Resolve
I don’t believe you’re fooled, and I seriously doubt you’re fooling anybody else.
Thanks for your reply, frankywiggles. Let’s get this straight: Biden is just pretending not to be compos mentis? Kamala Harris, Rashida Tlaib, and the Democrats that didn’t attend/applaud, are all pretending that they’re not big Bibi fans? Well, they could have fooled me. By the way, if Trump gets in and the Republicans get majorities in the House & Senate, the outlook will be much worse for Palestinians as a whole because there’s every chance he’ll give his blessing for the Israelis to get stuck into the Palestinian enclaves in the West Bank.
I had hoped that `Kamala’s absence meant something, but it appears the hope was in vein. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4792454-kamala-harris-slams-protests-benjamin-netanyahu-speech/
Thanks for your reply AliB. Kamala Harris is standing to become the next president of the United States of America. She’s hardly going to publicly approve of people carrying out criminal damage to public monuments and burning the stars & stripes* in the nation’s capital.
* unless your flag has become tattered, in which case it’s considered disrespectful *not* to burn it.
Kamala Harris is a fully bought for zionist. Simply minding appearances as some young people don’t read and could be fooled by this sleight of hand.
Thanks for your reply Jordo42. I never said that Kamala Harris wasn’t a Zionist – bought-and-paid-for or not. The thing is that there’s many different kinds of Zionism, ranging from ‘Israel is entitled to all of the land in the Levant, plus the Sinai Peninsula’ to ‘Israel is only entitled to the two main areas of contiguous land in the Mandate of Palestine that were owned by Jews pre-1948’ – and everything in between. The question is: which one is she? I don’t know, but I would say she leans more towards the latter than Trump does.
Zionism is the support for the Zionist State Terrorist group crimes against humanity in occupied Palestine.
The rest is sophistry. The Genocidal terrorist group who assassinated Lord Moyne, sent letter bombs to Churchill and enslaved Palestinians who survived the Nakba initial genocide and expulsion, are essentially the same Polish Purloiners, Lithuanian Liars, Romanian racists, Hungarian heisters, Belarusian Blaggers, Ukrainians Usurpers, French Fascists, German Grabbers, British Burglars, armed by Aggressive Americans in 1917, today.
It’s based on the writings of an Austrian Atheist Author with distinctive facial hair who having divided the world into the untermench, and the supermen who needed lebensraum, decreed the supermen were justified in the extermination of the people of Palestine to build the “old new land”.
Thanks for your reply CabbagePatch. Support for a Jewish state in the Levant does not necessarily equate to support for the acts of Jewish terror groups in the 1940’s – who, by the way, did a lot worse than kill Lord Moyne and send letter-bombs to Churchill – or the policies of the current Israeli government, any more than wanting a united Ireland constituted support for the Provisional IRA.
Re: ‘Polish Purloiners, Lithuanian Liars, Romanian racists, Hungarian heisters, Belarusian Blaggers, Ukrainians [sic] Usurpers, French Fascists, German Grabbers, British Burglars’
I’d put folding money on that being the most alliteration we’ll see on this site this year – though, in my opinion, it does get a bit contrived towards the end.
[Levant]
Palestine – not the Levant. The region is Western Asia, the Country is called Palestine.
It’s not East, middle, near or far, even if you say in French.
[Zionism]
Zionism has always only meant the anti-Palestinian racism of Europeans. It’s enduring appeal to the British Empire and then the US Empire is entirely about prevention of the existence of a unified political entity which is too large to push around like the old Ottoman empire or BRICS+ today.
It was denounced as a racist theory when it was called Protestant Restorationism. The first Zionist congress was in Bazel as the Rabbinical community of Germany were staunchly Bundist and decried the Zionists.
The Establishment of the temporary occupation entity didn’t include a single Rabbinical blessing for the all the Rabbi’s names of the Terrorist communication of t, the assembled crowd included not one kippa wearer. The portait on the Wall behind “Dave Green” from Plonsk in Poland, was noted “rabbinical figure” of an Austrian Atheist Author with distinctive facial hair who having divided the world into the untermench, and the supermen who needed lebensraum, decreed the supermen were justified in the extermination of the people of Palestine to build the “old new land”.
[Zionists]
Zionist State Terror campaign of ethic cleansing, expulsion, expropriation and enslavement of the Palestinian people hasn’t stopped for a single day. It’s not Jews, but Zionists from Eastern and Central Europe – for example an entire village of Palestinians Jews were expelled by the Zionists. [4]
[Zionist Terror]
Zionist State Terrorist group campaign of international terrorism didn’t cease in 1940s, it continues up onto the present day with little but the name altering. The bombing of the King David hotel was carried out to hide the evidence of the LEHI/Hagana/Jewish Agency/Irgun being the same organization, which GCHQ had discovered through signal intercepts.[3]
[Terrorists Then/Now]
The attempts to cause disease in the population as an Terrorist tactic directed at a civilian population for example in [1] 1948 – use of bacterial agents again as an assassination technique [2] 1997 and which continues today [5]. The contempt for international Law of the terrorist groups. The behaviour of the Zionist State Terrorist group consistent every definition of Terrorism. Who gives a fuck if the colonial countries recognize the temporary occupation,
The Zionist State terrorist group has been implicated in people trafficking, organ theft and organ trafficking, enslavement, genocide, apartheid, mass murder, torture, mass sexual violence.
There is decades of evidence, witness collaboration, photographs, videos, documentary and survivor testimony. The facts are plain. ZSTG is a Polish/Ukrainian led terror group armed by the US Empire as a proxy for destabilising Western Asia.
Perhaps you should read the Iron Wall, and “Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force.” understand the Authors biographer is a Ben-Zion Milekowski Father of the War Criminal awaiting arrest by ICC signatory countries, and the Likhud and Jabotinsky are inseparable.
A Zionist says my ideas are contrived, now that’s chutzpah.
[1] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000
[2] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200925-remembering-israels-botched-attempt-to-assassinate-khaled-meshaal/
[3] https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/Israel-at-75-how-inept-British-intelligence-failed-to-contain-Jewish-independence-groups
[4] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-24/ty-article/.premium/what-had-happened-to-the-bedouin-tribe-that-wanted-to-convert-to-judaism-100-years-ago/00000190-e49c-dab4-afb9-f7fcf7e60000
[5] https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-general-praises-spread-disease-gaza
Support for a Jewish state in the Levant does not necessarily equate to support for the acts of Jewish terror groups in the 1940’s – who, by the way, did a lot worse than kill Lord Moyne and send letter-bombs to Churchill – or the policies of the current Israeli government, any more than wanting a united Ireland constituted support for the Provisional IRA.
Thanks for your extensive and referenced reply CP. Palestine – whether you’re referring to the modern State of Palestine, Mandatory Palestine or the Roman region of Palestine* – is located in the Levant, as well as being in the Middle East or the Near East. That’s just geography. I’m well aware of much of what Jewish/Zionist terror groups and successive Israeli governments have done in the past. I’m also aware of what the Chinese Communist Party has done in the past – not least being responsible for 20-50 million deaths during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. However, that doesn’t mean that I want the Nationalists in Taiwan to annexe the People’s Republic of China. I was referring to some of your alliteration as being slightly contrived, e.g. ‘German Grabbers’. Not sure why you’ve copied & pasted part of my previous comment in your reply.
* Apart from the southern part of Palestina Tertia, which was in the Sinai Penisula.
Western Asia is not the Middle East by virtue of Geography but by one of Orientalism.
I insist on describing Palestine, with a geographically precise term as has been used for approximately 4000 years.
The language is what defines culture, and culture defines language.
Egyptians are not Palestinians.Syrians are not Palestinians. You can taste it in the bread, you can hear it in the words.
The lack of understanding of the culture of the region, one which Jews are an integral part and where they live in Iran still, because the Zionist Terror campaign of false flag bombing recruitment of worker population was halted in Iran before it really made much headway.
Egypt/Iraq/Morocco were successful, they conned the poor and terrified the wealthy with bombings. The destruction of the Richest, Safest Jewish community of Iraq safe from European barbarism for nearly 600 years, is yet another crime against humanity committed by the Zionists, and detailed in Avi’s books:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/avi-shlaim-proof-israel-zionist-involvement-iraq-jews-attacks
Zionism is the support for the Zionist State Terrorist group crimes against humanity in occupied Palestine.
The rest is sophistry.
Thanks for your reply CP. Palestine is in the Levant, which is in the Middle East or Near East. That has nothing to do with orientalism or what bread tastes like. It shouldn’t even be an argument. Zionism existed before there were any Zionist terror groups and before there was a State of Israel. Initially, Zionists wanted a Jewish homeland anywhere outside Europe; it was only later that they settled on the Levant. It is perfectly possible to be a Zionist and believe that the Palestinian people are entitled to a fully autonomous sovereign state in which there are no Israeli settlers or soldiers. There’s no sophistry about it.
We are discussing the Country invaded by Britain in 1917 following the Balfour declaration, Palestine, a country in Western Asia under occupation by the Zionists State Terrorist group.
It’s simply orientalist to suggest otherwise.
Palestine from River Jordan to Mediterranean Sea, Bordered by Egypt to the South Lebanon to the North. You can say it’s a Country on the Eastern shores of the Mediterranean but that’s not useful when the Country has a name in common use for 4000 years of Palestine.
Get used to it.
“Zionism existed before there were any Zionist terror groups and before there was a State of Israel.”
Yes, it was called Protestant Restorationism and opposed by Jews just Like Jews oppose Zionism now and 30/31 Zionists globally are Christian Zionists, with the remainder being secular fascists(Ben Givir) and messianic racists (Smotrich).
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1509596
“Initially, Zionists wanted a Jewish homeland anywhere outside Europe; it was only later that they settled on the Levant.”
The claim to Palestine was rooted in the Bible, while Uganda was briefly considered it’s not held that any serious efforts were made to colonise anywhere else but Palestine.
The Palestinian people have a country – called Palestine. The American Armed European Terrorists of the Zionist State Terrorist group are still Polish/Ukrainians/Hungarian/Iraqi/Romanian/Georgian/Russian But not a single Israeli since there are no Israelis and no Israel.
Just ask the ZSTG supreme court – “The reasoning for rejecting the petition was that the existence of “an Israeli people” had not been legally proven”
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2014-05-05/ty-article/there-is-such-a-thing-as-israeli/0000017f-e9a2-d62c-a1ff-fdfb7fd70000
Zionism is anti-Palestinian racism, It’s German Romanic Nationalism exactly like it’s sibling Nazism. It’s an ideology rooted in racism. That is Zionism, unless you suggest Belorussian Terrorist “Menachem Begin” or Polish Terrorist Yitzhak Yezernitsky, or “David Grum” are not Zionists.
Perhaps you wish to take issue with Jabotinsky as well. Zionist Terror groups in Palestine define Zionism and they are remarkable faithful to their vision.
There is no good Zionism, this violent racist fascist ideology predicated on the murder, rape. robbery, replacement of the people of Palestine was all it ever was.
Thanks for your reply CP. Palestine wasn’t a country in any meaningful sense of the word in 1917; it was a region of the Ottoman Empire, which was then in its twilight years. The British invaded it as part of their Sinai & Palestine Campaign – which was initiated by the Ottomans and their German allies invading the Sinai Peninsula – several months before the Balfour Declaration was written. These are facts, not orientalism*.
Many non-religious people throughout the world are Zionists, but most of them are not secular fascists. The same goes for most Jews outside Israel, a large proportion of whom are not messianic racists. There is such a thing as Israel and there are Israelis, because Israel is a member state of the UN, recognised by 165 other member states, and it has citizens. There doesn’t have to be an ‘Israeli people’. Every state in the Americas has its roots in colonialism and oppression, to some extent, of the original Native Americans (some of which is quite recent) – but they are all still UN member states.
* If some future woke, globalist society changes the prime meridian so that it runs through Cairo instead of Greenwich – because the Ancient Egyptians were the first people to realise that the Earth was not flat – the Near East will still be the Near East.
Palestine has existed as country for approximately 4000 years, while most people see the European concept of a nation state being a invention of the 19th century with disputed prior antecedents . Zionist fairy stories don’t count. Neither does the colonial countries opinion matter. ” Ẓāhir al-ʿUmar az-Zaydānī,[a] 1689/90 – 21 or 22 August 1775), was an Arab ruler of northern Palestine in the mid-18th century,[2] while the region was part of the Ottoman Empire. ” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahir_al-Umar. There were Palestinian Pilots fighting the Nazis at the Battle of Britain. 12,000 Palestinians fighting elsewhere https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0968344517696527?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.2
The club of your fellow European colonizers is cute, but they can all approve of the Zionist State Terrorist group, it doesn’t confer legitimacy on Polish Terrorists in denial of the rights of self-determination of the Palestinians People, since you want to bring up the UN it’s the first article of the Charter.
The ZSTG never had the right to Palestine, but they did like other terrorists groups have weapons and a willingness to harm civilians, as we see now in Gaza.
1914 Nov WW1 Starts
1915 Jan/March Herb Samuel Advocates for Zionism ” Following the outbreak of the First World War in November 1914, when Britain reversed its traditional eastern policy of maintaining the integrity of the Ottoman Empire, Samuel realised the opportunities that this new policy had opened for the Zionist movement. Although up to this point he had had no previous interest in Zionism, he submitted between January and March 1915, two memoranda: the first to PM Asquith and a second and revised one to the Cabinet. In these memos, Samuel advocated the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine under British protection, claiming that this was fully recognised by the Zionist movement.” [1]
1915 July Hussein-McMahon correspondence.
1916 Sykes-Picot
1916 Asquith is deposed by Lloyd-George who has a history of working for the Zionists, and brings on Bloody Balfour fresh from 1905 Aliens act.
“Asquith came to the conclusion that Lloyd George had leaked embarrassing details of the conversation he had with Lloyd George, including the threat of resignation if he did not get what he wanted. That night he sent a note to Lloyd George: “Such productions as the leading article in today’s Times, showing the infinite possibilities for misunderstanding and misrepresentation of such an arrangement as we discussed yesterday, make me at least doubtful of its feasibility. Unless the impression is at once corrected that I am being relegated to the position of an irresponsible spectator of the War, I cannot go on.” (166)” [4]
1915-1917 See Polish Zionist lobbying for the exact form of words bears fruit first with the Cambon letter followed by Wilson then Balfour.
“You were good enough to present the project to which you are devoting your efforts,
which has for its object the development of Jewish colonization in Palestine.” [3]
You will note, it’s Palestine – nobody uses “The Levant” or pretends Zionist State Terror group is anything other than “A mischievous political creed” [2]
Here CP Scott shows the origins of the Zionist attempt to denigrate Palestine as not a Country, despite the very sentance damning him [5]
[1] https://balfourproject.org/facts-on-the-ground-herbert-samuel-and-the-balfour-declaration-1914-1925/
[2] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/montagu-memo-on-british-government-s-anti-semitism
[3] https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/martinkramer/files/forgotten_truth_balfour_declaration.pdf
[4] https://spartacus-educational.com/PRasquith.htm
[5] https://theguardian.newspapers.com/article/the-guardian/75604596/
[6] https://www.newenglishreview.org/c-p-scott-editor-of-the-manchester-guardian-on-the-balfour-declaration/?print=print
The Invasion of Palestine by Britain took place in 1917, post the Zionist Sponsored coup of Asquith and long after the negotiations for every one of the 67 words had concluded.
Britain invaded Egypt in 1882, Palestine in 1917 for interests of Suez and ultimately India.
“Palestine has a special importance for Great Britain, because in the hands of a hostile Power it can be made, as our experience in this war has shown, a secure base from which a land attack on Egypt can be organised. The attack in this war has been feeble because the preparations were wholly inadequate and the force ill-organised. But with a European Power in possession it might easily be made infinitely more formidable, and might even make our position in Egypt untenable. Our interest, and practically our sole particular interest, in Palestine is that this danger should be effectually guarded against, and that no Power should be seated in Palestine which is or under any circumstances is likely to be hostile to this country. That condition would be fulfilled by a protectorate exercised by this country alone or in conjunction with, say, the United States or by the United States alone, or by an international body designating us as its mandatory on conditions to be mutually agreed.” [6]
Zionism is Simple Racism. It’s Murder Rape and Armed Robbery carried out by a Terrorist group of a historical racists from Eastern and Central Europe.
They are very successful Terrorists, argubly the most ever in history. But Palestine is a country, Zionists State is a temporary terrorist base in occupied Palestine, and Neither Israel nor Israeli exist by your demand, or by the Vassals of the US empire.
Palestine exists, and will exist long after Dave Green is disinterred and shipped back to Plonk.
Thanks for your reply CP. Palestine hasn’t been a country for 4000 years. In the second millennium BCE, the land between the River Jordan and the Med was occupied by bands of Canaanites. At the start of the first millennium BCE, it was divided between the kingdoms of Judah & Israel, which were later assimilated into the Assyrian Empire, which was taken over by the Babylonian Empire, which became part of the Persian Empire, which was conquered by Alexander the Great. Then it became part of Ptolemaic Egypt, and then part of the Roman Empire, where it was initially known as the Province of Judaea, before becoming the Province of Palestine in the second century AD. All of this is well-documented historical fact with multiple written original sources.
The Wiki article on Zahir al-Umar states that he was the governor of several sanjaks in the Ottoman Empire, none of which have the word ‘Palestine’ in their names. If you’re going to try to impress people with your extensive historical knowledge, it helps not to state that World War I started in November 1914, because it is generally considered to have started on 28th July 1914 (110 years & 1 day ago) when Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was assassinated in Sarajevo – although some people consider that it began on 1st August when Germany declared war on Russia. I haven’t got time to go through the rest of your timeline, except to remark the Lloyd George became prime minister because he was seen as a highly capable minister who had substantially increased armament production needed for the war effort, not because of some nefarious Jewish plot.
In the second decade of the 20th century, the British ruling class decided to call their mandate ‘Palestine’ because that’s what the Ancient Greeks and Romans whose output they had studied in their public schools called that part of the world. It doesn’t matter whether I want Israel to exist or not, the fact is that it does – and it is recognised at the UN by, inter alia, Russia, China, Vietnam & Laos, all of whom are hardly US vassals.
A Zionist without the time to read the history – colour me surprised.
You’re obviously not arguing in good faith, but seriously at least try present an argument for your simplistic murder and armed robbery cult with some factual basis.
Lets assume you are arguing in good faith, unlikely but for shits and giggles, Your support for the Zionist State Terrorist group is rooted in Racism or Ignorance. I condemn the Racism, but I’m happy to alleviate your ignorance.
[Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History – Nur Masalha] “First documented in the late Bronze Age, about 3200 years ago, the name
Palestine (Greek: Παλαιστίνη; Arabic: فلسطين, Filastin), is the conventional name used between 450 BC and 1948 AD to describe a geographic region
between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River and various adjoining lands. This work explores the evolution of the concept, histories, identity, languages and cultures of Palestine from the Late Bronze Age to the modern era. Moreover, Palestine history is often taught in the West as a history of a land, not as Palestinian history or a history of a people. This book challenges colonial approach to Palestine and the pernicious myth of a land without a people (Masalha 1992, 1997) and argues for reading the history of Palestine with the eyes of the indigenous people of Palestine. The Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine; their local roots are deeply embedded in the soil of Palestine and their autochthonous identity and historical heritage long preceded the emergence of a local Palestinian nascent national movement in the late Ottoman period and the advent of Zionist settler‑colonialism before the First World War” [1]
[1] https://www.are.na/block/3389959
The Zionist State Terrorist group temporary occupation of Palestine didn’t even encompass all of Palestine until 1967. Palestine exists, has existed in the same place with the same rich cultural heritage that gave the world specialist weaving from where we get the word Gauze from the weavers of Gaza – which is a city in Southern Palestine.
Palestine is named after it’s People the Palestinians, some of whom where Palestinian Jews of Eastern European Heritage, but they were Palestinians. As you’ve had to admit, there is no Israeli people, and therefore the Zionist State Terrorist encampment in occupied Palestine can call itself Narnia if it helps loosen the wallets of Christian Zionists
Asquith was deposed because he wasn’t a Zionist, the history of this is well documented as is the Fact the Zionist called it Palestine, and were well aware of the Palestinian people, presence and ownership of the Land.
“the Basel Programme adopted at the First Zionist Congress, which launched political Zionism in 1897, made no mention of a Palestinian indigenous population when it spelled out the movement’s objective: ‘the establishment of a publicly and legally secured home in Palestine for the Jewish people’.
Moreover, in the early years of their efforts to secure support for their enterprise, the Zionists propagated in the West the racist myth of ‘a land without a people for a people without a land’, a slogan popularised by Israel Zangwill, a prominent Anglo‑Jewish writer often quoted in the British press as a spokesman for Zionism and one of the earliest organisers of the Zionist movement in Britain. Even as late as 1914, Chaim Weizmann, who was to become the first President of Israel and who, along with Theodor Herzl and David Ben‑Gurion, was one of the three men most responsible for turning the Zionist dream into reality, stated:
In its initial stage, Zionism was conceived by its pioneers as a movement wholly depending on mechanical factors: there is a country which happens to be called Palestine, a country without a people, and, on the other hand, there exists the Jewish people, and it has no country. What else is necessary, then, than to fit the gem into the ring, to unite this people with this country? The owners of the country [the Turks] must, therefore, be persuaded and convinced that this marriage is advantageous, not only for the [Jewish] people and for the country, but also for themselves. 1
Neither Zangwill nor Weizmann intended these demographic assessments in a literal fashion. They did not mean that there were no people in Palestine, but that there were no people worth considering within the framework of the notions of racist European supremacy that then held sway.” [1]
— ibid
The Zionist Congress which as you can see explicit about dispossession of Palestinians and colonizing Palestine – even they don’t pretend Israel exists, precedes WW1 starting in 1914 precedes 1915 when Samuel writes memos on Zionism which precedes the Camborn Letter, and Wilson approving and the Balfour declaration, so your “several months before the Balfour Declaration was written. These are facts,” is comprehensively demolished. The Zionists seem to think it’s a country called Palestine.
Looks like it’s entirely traceable back to CP Scott, so we can consider that butterfly pinned.
Try to read some books which don’t have waterproof and chewable on the cover.
“The truly decisive moment in paving the way to the Balfour Declaration took place nearly a year before it was released, on December 6, 1916. That is the day that Prime Minister Asquith was compelled to resign, and was replaced by David Lloyd George. One reason the document would not have been issued under Asquith is that he had no interest in Zionism and did not support the Zionist aspirations. Additionally, however, is the fact that Asquith’s rival for the love of young Venetia Stanley was the Jewish but anti-Zionist minister Edwin Samuel Montagu. Montagu (1879-1924) was the most active and influential objector to the Balfour Declaration, and once Asquith was out, Montagu, though still a cabinet member, lost his political standing. ”
https://archive.ph/7G47w#selection-1109.0-1109.743
Thanks for your reply CP. I wouldn’t be wasting time arguing with you (although all I’m really doing is stating facts, not opinions*) if I weren’t doing it in good faith. I didn’t mean that I don’t have time to read about the history of the region (though I don’t need to because I already have done). What I meant was I don’t have time to concern myself with uncorroborated Westminster minutiae and tittle-tattle from over a hundred years ago. The fact is that Asquith had to go because the first world war (in which nearly a million British soldiers, many of whom were essentially kids, died) wasn’t going particularly well (he did well to last until December 1916) – and the obvious replacement was Lloyd George, so no plotting by anyone was required. It wasn’t as if there were several better qualified anti-Zionist candidates who died in suspicious circumstances or who became embroiled in scandal.
The book you quote from states that Palestine is the name that has been used for around 2500 years ‘to describe a geographic region’ (note: not a country). Well, thank you for making my point. I wish we could have got there earlier. In a previous comment, you stated: ‘We are discussing the Country invaded by Britain in 1917 following the Balfour declaration, Palestine’. This statement is incorrect, because British forces first entered the area of land that would encompass Mandatory Palestine (as well as the modern State of Palestine) at the Battle of Rafah in January 1917, which was over 9 months *before* the Balfour Declaration of November 1917. So my previous assertion hasn’t even been slightly tarnished, let alone ‘comprehensively demolished’.
As for the rather childish insults about waterproof/chewable books: at least the ones I read appear to have the correct date for the start of the first world war in them. Oh and by the way, the singular, third-person possessive pronoun is ‘its’ not ‘it’s’.
* apart from about some of your alliterations
“The book you quote from states that Palestine is the name that has been used for around 2500 years ‘to describe a geographic region’ (note: not a country). Well, thank you for making my point. I wish we could have got there earlier. ”
Is your point, that you lack a dictionary? “Country: a particular geographical region of indefinite boundary (usually serving some special purpose or distinguished by its people or culture or geography)”
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/country
“What I meant was I don’t have time to concern myself with uncorroborated Westminster minutiae and tittle-tattle from over a hundred years ago. The fact is that Asquith had to go because the first world war … so no plotting by anyone was required. – ”
Tell it to Haaretz – noted for being utterly ignorant about Zionism – who tell the same story as everybody else.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-11-02/ty-article/.premium/the-love-triangle-that-changed-the-course-of-zionism/0000017f-e582-dea7-adff-f5fb9ed40000
As each straw-man shamelessly smoulders on behind you, abandoned and unacknowledged while you still attempt to adopt an attitude incommensurate with your support for the Zionist State Terrorist group Genocidal occupation of Palestine.
You’ve been holed below the water line. A coup delivered Zionism control of Britain, and ultimately Palestine.
Zionism was going nowhere with Asquith, who wanted to sue for Peace. He was deposed so that millions more people could die in WW1 and the Zionist State Terrorist group could acquire Palestine. They got their way, and the world’s most successful terrorist organization has occupied Palestine ever since. Happily they are in the process of leaving and heading back to Europe and the US, where their deviant ways will show themselves as increases to the abuse and sex crime statistics.
The Balfour declaration is in November 1917 – almost a year subsequent to the Zionist Coup against Asquith of December 1916, which itself followed the Ottoman attack on Suez in January of 1915, which C.P. Scott refers to in his editorial celebrating the Balfour declaration, leading Herbert Samuel to become a convert to Zionism and write his memos to Asquith. The Cabinet quote below this predates 1915 July Hussein-McMahon correspondence, the 1915 Lusitania sinking, 1916 Sykes-Picot, etc.
“Prime Minister H. H. Asquith noted on January 28 about the first draft:
“I have just received from Herbert Samuel a memorandum headed ‘The Future of Palestine’… He thinks we might plant in this not very promising territory about three or four million European Jews, and that this would have a good effect on those left behind. It reads almost like a new edition of Tancred brought up to date…it is a curious illustration of Dizzy’s [Disraeli’s] favourite maxim that ‘race is everything’ to find this almost lyrical outburst proceeding from the well ordered and methodical brain of H.S.”…[20]
and in March about the final version:
“I think I have already referred to Herbert Samuel’s dithyrambic memorandum, urging that in carving up the Turks’ Asiatic dominions we should take Palestine, into which the scattered Jews would in time swarm back from all quarters of the globe, and in due course obtain Home Rule. Curiously enough, the only other partisan of this proposal is Lloyd George, who I need not say, does not care a damn for the Jews or their past or their future, but thinks it will be an outrage to let the Holy Places pass into the possession or the protection of ‘agnostic, atheistic France'”[21]
Writing earlier on 5 February, Rufus Isaacs, 1st Marquess of Reading noted that “[Lloyd-George was] inclined to the sympathetic side – your proposal appeals to the poetic and imaginative as well as to the romantic and religious qualities of his mind”.[14] Samuel’s cousin and Anti-Zionist Edwin Montagu wrote a letter to Asquith on 16 March 1915:
“Palestine in itself offers little or no attraction to Great Britain from a strategical or material point of view”…”[Palestine would be] incomparably a poorer possession than, let us say, Meopotamia”…”I cannot see any Jews I know tending olive trees or herding sheep”…”There is no Jewish race now as a homogenous whole. It is quite obvious that the Jews in Great Britain are as remote from the Jews in Morocco or the black Jews in Cochin as the Christian Englishman is from the moor or the Hindoo”…”If only our peoples would…take their place as non-conformists, then Zionism would obviously die and Jews might find their way to esteem.”[22]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Future_of_Palestine
As for the rather childish insults about waterproof/chewable books*: at least the ones I read appear to have the correct date for the start of the first world war in them. Oh and by the way, the singular, third-person possessive pronoun is ‘its’ not ‘it’s’. Congratulations, try reading Ilan Pappé’s new book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lobbying-Zionism-Both-Sides-Atlantic/dp/0861544021
* Obviously not a Red Dwarf Fan
Thanks for your reply CP. My Collins dictionary was (illegally) disposed of by my former landlords, and I can’t be arsed buying a new one. Dad currently has the family OED in his sheltered housing* as he needs it for his crosswords. So, according to the authoritative source that is vocabulary.com, literally every tract of land on earth without a definite boundary is, and always has been, a country – whereas regions that have definite boundaries cannot be countries. This is not very helpful, though it is slightly more illuminating than what you wrote in a previous comment, viz: ‘The language is what defines culture, and culture defines language.’ Even if we accept vocabulary.com’s definition as valid, the book you cited avers that Palestine was only a country for 2398 years, not 4000.
I can’t be arsed registering or paying money to read more than the first paragraph of the article in Haaretz that you linked to. I am, however, able to read the below-the-line comments on it. Here’s what Bernard Wasserstein, Emeritus Professor of History at the University of Chicago (or someone calling themselves that) thinks about it in the second comment down: ‘This article is great nonsense. I am surprised that Haaretz would publish it.’
Might give Ilan Pappé’s book a go on the Kindle when I get time, though I suspect the only ‘both sides’ thing about it will be in its title. According to Wiki though, he’s called for an international boycott of Israeli academics (and presumably their commercial output), but he’s an Israeli academic. It’s a dilemma.
* Is there any other sort?
Culture is Language, Language is Culture. That you lack that understanding doesn’t give your Hasbara heft, you are outmatched – not by me, but by reality. Egypt is very simply not Palestine. Palestine is not Syria. It’s enjoyable to see you assert, as if you have credibility, as if every attempt hasn’t been dismantled, effortlessly.
“Palestine was only a country for 2398 years, not 4000. ” Thank you, we got there in the end, Palestine is a country, the existence of which long predates Zionism’s birth as Protestant Restorationism, before Hertzl’s Fan Fiction Followers took up the mantle.
If you want to read the article by peeking behind the paywall, you could use this link https://archive.ph/7G47w#selection-1109.0-1109.743
If you genuinely want to understand the history, you need to read Zionist sources and cross-reference them with Non-Zionist sources, in order to gain an accurate picture of events. Sadly Benny Morris has rather let himself down of late; but still, his earlier works, whilst Zionist in nature, are a good jumping-off point.
Depending on what aspects of the history you are interested in.
A very brief summary is: a terrorist group made themselves useful to an imperial sponsor, imported sufficient men/arms to murder and violently dispossess the largely defenceless rural population.
But Zionism has to be understood as a literary phenomenon at its base. So start with Kanafani: On Zionist Literature, and then Oborne: The Fate of Abraham.
That will cover the more overview side of things, then you can deep dive as interests you. How the ZSTG actually murdered and bombed people out of their homes; see Suarez: Palestine Hijacked / State of Terror; Pappé: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
What remains of the villages the ZSTG bombed: Khalidi W: Before their Diaspora / All that Remains.
There are the Zionist Side of the “new historians”, such as Benny Morris – he’s a Zionist, and that colours his view – but still it’s an excellent resource when used as a jumping-off point.
A useful exercise is to take an event described by Morris and cross-reference with the other Historians. He’s biased, markedly so, but still a useful resource.
So he will say X took place, but the motivation he imputes is often suspect. That said, you cannot take him as the only resource. So read Khalidi R: A Hundred Years of War on Palestine / w Pappé: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine; and cross check the descriptions of events.
Kanafani: On Zionist Literature
Oborne: The Fate of Abraham
Suarez: Palestine Hijacked / State of Terror
Khalidi W: Before their Diaspora / All that Remains
Khalidi R: A Hundred Years of War on Palestine
Masalha : Palestine – a 4000 year history
Sands: The invention of the Jewish People
Pappe: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
Cohen: Good Arabs / Army of Shadows
Kanafani: On Zionist Literature
Finklestein: Gaza: An inquest into its martyrdom
Moris: – The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem (1948)
Egyptian culture, food and language are different, dramatically so from Palestine’s culture, food and language. For example a ‘kettle’ in Egyptian is a ‘fridge’ in Palestinian. If the word appears alone, you’d have to know if an Egyptian or a Palestinian wrote it to understand which was meant. Literally the exact same word with the same spelling. The word for ‘Life’, in Egypt is a colloquialism for ‘Bread’; in Palestine that same word doesn’t mean ‘Bread’.
The agricultural practices of Palestinian Terracing which are complete different from the sophisticated system of silt fertilisation canals which developed in Egypt. Given the Nile doesn’t flow through Palestine which gets more rain than Sweden does, it’s hardly surprising they made different choices.
Egypt is a different Geographical Region with different language and different people who are of different ethnic background, who cook different food, which they grow in a different manner. We call that concept a ‘Country’.
Thanks for your reply CP. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that, despite all the conquests by sundry empires, the Palestine region has had a singular, enduring culture. Well, it certainly hasn’t had an enduring language, because in the 9th century BCE most of its inhabitants were speaking a primitive form of Hebrew; in the 1st century AD many, if not most, people there spoke a form of Aramaic; but by the 9th century AD, most people were speaking Arabic. So if culture = language, logic would suggest that it hasn’t had a culture lasting for over 3000 years (or 2398 years or whatever) after all. Let’s not get started on religion, shall we.
I never stated that Palestine wasn’t a country, just that it hasn’t been one for 4000 years. It hasn’t been a country for 2398 years either, unless you’re going along with the definition in vocabulary.com, in which case Rannoch Moor has also been a country for thousands of years, along with countless other places. I’m glad I’ve provided you with some enjoyment in your life, though I’m afraid you haven’t dismantled any of my assertions – and even in a parallel universe where you have, you certainly haven’t done it effortlessly. How many words have you written so far?
Thanks for the link to the archived Haaretz article. Having now read it, I tend towards Prof Wasserstein’s view. Whether he’d been having an affair or not, Asquith – who wouldn’t have been able to sue for peace with the Germans even if he’d wanted to – would have had to go because his position was untenable, and Lloyd George would have been his replacement. FYI I’m not a part of the Hasbara and am not Jewish (or Christian). With regard to the current Israel-Palestine situation, I support a two-state solution in which all Israeli settlers and military completely withdraw from the West Bank and most Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails are released. I think that would solve 99% of the issue, or at least it would have done before October 7th.
Palestine is a country. Zionist State Terrorist group stole 71% of that country enslaving its people.
Zionists caused Millions of People to Die in WW1 via the Asquith Coup, these are nailed on facts, which again are not particularly controversial and are the basis for “Stab in the Back” myth which becomes historically significant in WW2 with tragic consequences for 50 Million people.
Being Zionist makes it impossible for you to be Jewish, as Zionism is antithetical to Judaism.
Zionists are not getting 71% of Palestine which they stole in 1947-1949. A single democratic, secular state of Palestine, where all people of faith and none live together with complete equality under the law, that’s inevitable.
Zionism is simple Racism:
Support for a Racist Terror group of Rapists who are current rioting about the right to gang rape Palestinian Hostages who have been kidnapped’.
Denying the Rights of Palestinians in service of a European Terrorist group.
Well established as “not a position worthy of respect”, i.e. akin to Nazism in the Miller judgement.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Miller-judgment-1400780.2022-JDT.pdf
I echo his words.
““I have at all times since that date believed Zionism to be a settler-colonial and ethno-nationalist movement that seeks to assert Jewish hegemony and political control over the land of historic Palestine”.
He also believes: Zionism to be a form of racism because it necessarily calls for the displacement and disenfranchisement of non-Jews in favour of Jews, and it is therefore ideologically bound to lead to the practices of apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide in pursuit of territorial control and expansion.”
Typing some basic well-known history amongst educated people is much easier than shifting through the rubble for the scraps of flesh of my loved ones.
We all must do what we can until Palestine is free, because truly “our freedom is incomplete, without the freedom of the Palestinian People”.
Thanks for your reply CP. Can I ask if you have any evidence that Asquith was brought down by a nefarious Zionist plot, other than Lloyd George wanted to be PM and he was fairly sympathetic to their cause? The stab-in-the-back myth cited strikes in German munitions factories and the capitulation by the German High Command in 1918 as both being instigated by Jews and socialists. It was nothing to do with Asquith – I’d imagine that few Nazi party members in the 1920’s & 30s would have even known who he was, just as hardly any working-class Brits at the time knew who Theobald von Bethmann Hellweg was. Had the Asquith government been willing and able to sue for peace, millions of lives wouldn’t have been saved in WWI because the French would have carried on fighting until the bitter end, it being an existential war for them.
You have a reading list. You’ve been given links to quotes from the British government. Those books have all the details and references drawn from original source material – the “New Historians” tend to draw on British Archives and then Zionist Archives. Suarez makes much use of British military archives at Kew.
Essentially Britain is losing WW1, the Germans are winning WW1. The Americans joining WW1 on the side of Britain in contravention of Wilson’s stated aims will ensure Britain wins and France/Britain retain their colonial possessions.
A deal is struck to get the US into WW1 with the quid-pro-quo being the Balfour declaration. This results in the text of the Balfour declaration being incorporated into the Treaty of Sèvres, and ultimately ratified in the Treaty of Lausanne.
This is now when the German people first find about this provision in the Treaty of Lausanne, this is the genesis of the “Stab in the Back Myth”(SITBM)
The SITBM has to be understood in the context of “Germany is winning. Germany has been defeated. Palestine is to be given to Zionists who cloak themselves as speaking for Jewish people”
That also needs to be understood as Germany is the heartland of Zionism and Bundists. So that most Jews are not Zionist, and 100,000 fought for Germany during WW1 as they saw themselves as German Jews, not Jewish Germans. But this Treaty of Lausanne begs for an explanation, and the SITBM is born. This is yet another example of Zionist collaboration with the Imperial powers utterly indifferent to the foreseeable consequences of blaming German Jews for Germany failure in WW1. The issue at the is here:
https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/
“The three principles of the British Balfour Declaration regarding Palestine were adopted in the Treaty of Sèvres:
Article 95: The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on 2 November 1917 by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”
Germany gets shafted in WW1 treaties losing its colonial empire, which the upper Military echelons blame on Jews, despite it being clearly the results of Zionist Intrigue with UK/US.
The US has House, who promises he can deliver Wilson, and he does, as per usual a Christian Zionist.
Read the reading list, and we can discuss the details once you’ve musters the basics.
Thanks Cabbage Patch for the breakdown and the reading list. I have followed this interchange with great interest.
My maternal grandfather joined the army at age 16, lying about his age and served in the Camel Corps. He could roll a cigarette with one hand, a skill he claimed he had learnt whilst riding camels during Allenby’s campaign. He liked the Turks he met (POW’s) and he liked the Arabs and the Jews. He came back from war a lifelong anti-racist, he would countenance no form of racial discrimination. He taught from his experience, first to mum and then to us grandkids. He was cool on organised religion, believing fanaticism never far away.
In my teens I’d get him to talk about his wartime experiences more seriously and can remember him saying many times that the competing claims on Jerusalem were the fault line for a future conflagration, maybe even another world war. He never directly spoke about the policy decisions that had taken place but I remember being allowed in the pub occasionally when he met his wartime mates – I had to sit quiet and still lol and they would discuss “the old days”
Thanks for your reply CP. I’ll see if I can order one or two of the books you recommended on Amazon. I certainly won’t have time to read them all. Your quotes from Asquith, as related by CP Scott (presumably), make no mention of a Zionist plot against him. Going by the quotes, he apparently thought that Lloyd George did ‘not care a damn for the Jews or their past or their future’ but only wanted to keep Palestine out of the hands of France.
The Treaty of Lausanne was signed in July 1923. The stab-in-the-back myth was already common currency in Germany in 1919, having been popularised by General Erich Ludendorff. Its premise was that Germany could have won the Great War in 1918 or 1919 after their successes in the Spring Offensive – even with US participation on the allies’ side – but was betrayed by forces (not least German Jews) on the home front.
Thanks for chiming in, Will. Glad all this has at least provided you with some interest – to be honest, I’m surprised that anyone apart from CP and myself would have been following it.
Enjoy the weekend, both of you.
Hi Will,
Many of the British soldiers stationed in Egypt and then Palestine came to that conclusion. It’s honestly astounding how determined to ignore all advice from the Lions the Donkeys had become.
Your Grandad sounds wonderful, I’ll bet he’d have interesting stories.
There are so many of these people’s stories that we should hear, instead of the cartoon histories.
Glad you’ve enjoyed our ramblings, I hope you have a lovely week.
Hi Lapsed,
>> Thanks for your reply CP. I’ll see if I can order one or two of the books you recommended on Amazon. I certainly won’t have time to read them all.
The books are somewhat dense, so if you want something readable, I would suggest Kanafani “On Zionist Literature” – this is smallest volume but the most profound grounding you in Zionism’s actual literary origins.
I would also recommend Oborne’s “The Fate of Abraham” – that’s more about the West’s relationship with Islam but it’s very readable, and covers useful background, as well as frankly Oborne is delight to Read.
Read Benny Morris’s books in a Library as they are the Zionist Cannon in this countries political science departments, so will be found in most libraries.
You’ll need to do a lot of referencing and they’re better done with that in mind.
Much more readable, are Suarez’s “State of Terror” and “Palestine Hijacked”, Khalidi R: A Hundred Years of War on Palestine and Pappe’s Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
These are relatively slim single volume works which cover the essential details. Suarez’s focus is on the Zionist State Terrorist group terrorist activities as an national and international Terrorist group drawn from their archives and British Military archives.
Cohen’s Books deal with Palestinian, and Jordanian collaboration with Zionism pre-1948 (Army of Shadows) and post 1948 (Good Arabs), They are fairly readable but the racist dogma spills forth from the page.
>> Your quotes from Asquith, as related by CP Scott (presumably), make no mention of a Zionist plot against him.
Asquith is quoted from various places in the referenced Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Future_of_Palestine -where he references 1) Lloyd-George is a noted Jew hater as is Balfour. 2) The 1905 Aliens act which was intended to deny safety to Jews fleeing the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth seeking passage to Britain. [ 1905 Aliens act – https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/law-and-history-review/article/abs/right-to-asylum-britains-1905-aliens-act-and-the-evolution-of-refugee-law/38AA06B0808D0AA25137B7DF8A018D04 ]
Asquith dies in 1928 – but if you want a deep dive on that part of the History
Try “Legacy of Empire: Britain, Zionism and the Creation of Israel by Gardner Thompson, Saqi Books (2019)” the review here should whet your appetite https://electronicintifada.net/content/britains-poisoned-legacy-palestine/29281
There is also “Chronicling the Mandatory Rape of Palestine” a two volume work which deals with most of the British government side. https://www.palestinechronicle.com/chronicling-the-mandatory-rape-of-palestine-a-book-review/
>> Going by the quotes, he apparently thought that Lloyd George did ‘not care a damn for the Jews or their past or their future’ but only wanted to keep Palestine out of the hands of France.
Lloyd-George developed contacts with the Zionists from his Legal practise. He was a noted Jew Hater, a small sample here in his testimony to the peel commission https://fathomjournal.org/mandate100-a-dangerous-people-to-quarrel-with-lloyd-georges-secret-testimony-to-the-peel-commission-revealed/
“The author questions historical accounts that say Britain collaborated with Zionism under Asquith. What made Palestine relevant, he argues, was the ascension of David Lloyd George to the premiership in December 1916, along with military setbacks that risked Britain losing the world war.
Thompson’s case for contingency and coincidence rests with Lloyd George, a Christian Zionist who was charmed by Chaim Weizmann, one of the leading figures in the Zionist movement.
Weizmann convinced Lloyd George that “the Jews in both Russia and the US were crucial to their respective countries remaining in the war.” The promise of a Jewish homeland would result in Jews pressuring Tsarist Russia to remain in the war and ensure that the US would become fully involved in it.
In short, Weizmann sold Lloyd George on what was essentially an anti-Semitic trope of the power of “international Jewry.”
Thompson posits that British ruling circles were primarily won over to the Zionist position on ideological grounds. They accepted the precepts that Jews represented a nation in exile that suffered persecution in the diaspora and therefore had the need and right to return to Palestine.
But this also fit well into anti-Semitic beliefs that aligning with the Zionist movement gave Britain a strategic advantage in the war due to Jewish power and influence.
” https://electronicintifada.net/content/britains-poisoned-legacy-palestine/29281
Asquith is not known to have held the Zionists responsible, he basically fades from the scene broken hearted after his unrequited love interest marries someone else, his mate no less.
That Zionists needed Asquith gone is again made clear by this other review from a book referenced here https://bookanista.com/future-palestine/
Germany lost in 1918. They blamed it on German Jews collectively not Zionists specifically. That’s the SITB Myth. The idea that one specific person when Europe is full from top to bottom of Jew Haters points the finger is fanciful.
The Zionists are literally Ashkenazi – which means “German Jews” https://www.lbi.org/exhibitions/zionismus-the-german-roots-of-zionism/ Zionism is better known in German speaking Europe than anywhere else.
https://www.ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/transnational-movements-and-organisations/international-organisations-and-congresses/kerstin-armborst-weihs-the-formation-of-the-jewish-national-movement-through-transnational-exchange-zionism-in-europe-up-to-the-first-world-war-1914
These people are publicly banging on about Palestine, Germany Loses, Zionists Get Palestine. Zionist claim ownership of Jewish Identity despite being an utterly marginal group numerically.
It really is that simple. The rumbling began when the US entered the ww1 in 1917 https://www.ujajcc.org/index.php?src=blog&srctype=detail&blogid=4578 This is analysed in a journal here https://www.jstor.org/stable/4323878
The back story is here.
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/martinkramer/files/forgotten_truth_balfour_declaration.pdf
The US barks orders at China, warning them not supply ‘dual-use’ goods to Russia, while they themselves provide F-35s and as many bombs as Israel cares to drop on an impoverished population with no means of defence. A population the Israelis have been illegally occupying in defiance of countless UN resolutions and international court judgements, mainly thanks to US complicity. Some US politicians even travel to Israel sign ‘family killer’ 2000 lb bombs, with glib messages; and talk in biblical terms, as if Israel is somehow doing the Lord’s work, by dropping bombs, using first world technology, on the poorest people on earth.
It’s messed up.
The US political system is truly full of corrupt, ignorant, warped individuals. And the cowardly Mike Johnson and Lindsey Graham have to be among the worst of them. It’s almost like watching a different species operate, viewing them from Europe. And its only the US’s brazen interference in our political systems; the unhealthy influence of NATO, and our media, that prevents a major diplomatic spat and the cutting of relations with the US in protest at their backing of Netanyahu’s evil regime.
Deep down, British politicians are definitely appalled by it. Do not stop telling yourself that, Goose..
I don’t blame the US people, as Americans tend to be very insular and State localist, or ‘domestic politics’ focused. For a country that lays claim to a ‘world leadership’ role though, the population and political class are dangerously ignorant. Complex conflicts are presented in very simple black and white terms ; ‘good guys vs bad guys,’ with the US obviously always cast as being on the side of the good guys.
The ignorance is the deliberate product of a US media largely owned and controlled by Zionists. It paints a very distorted, pro-Israel picture. The US TV news and radio hosts, are also far more partisan and opinionated than other countries. Largely because, unlike the UK, they don’t have broadcast rules on impartiality.
My own family relative, who lived in Canada (he died a few years ago), blamed the Palestinians for every flare-up of violence. I’d assume because Canadian media, much like the US, only report the, workshop made, token resistance rockets, fired into Israel from Gaza. While failing to report the constant, brutal, IDF raids and arrests in the West Bank; the assassinations via air strikes that the Israelis carry out; the so-called ‘targeted’ assassinations, conducted in busy streets in Gaza, strikes that kill numerous by-standers – actions that ‘d be completely unacceptable in the West. It’s this that generates so much support for the resistance among ordinary Palestinians, as if the daily indignities faced weren’t already enough.
Well before the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russians had learned not to believe their media. Why haven’t Americans learned the same lesson?
Coz the shops are full of cheap industrial food and and consumer goods are super-abundant, if you can afford them
As I recall Soviet shops, especially towards the end, often carried limited or no stock. When Pravda reported a good year for the pig industry and there was no pig meat in the shops, every stomach knew the truth however cowed, indoctrinated or dense the head that belonged to that stomach
The Soviets had the circuses but no bread
This one is easy. Unlike us, the Americans tend to fall into the trap of dualism. They think like “CNN is bad but FOX is good” or vice versa, which is a projection of “Democrats are bad but Republicans are good” (or vice versa). The idea that both are bad, each in its own way, is too much for them.
Is there any more accurate word than “evil” to describe the behaviour of Netanyahu and his American acolytes yesterday? If so, I would like to read it.
Barbarism?
And, the UK is exactly the same. If/when Netanyahu comes to the UK to spew his evil bile then we can guarantee that most of the members of parliament will line up to applaud him. The UK is clearly part of team USA.
“The UK is clearly part of team USA.”
Stevie Boy the “UK” aka Britain is part of Team America not “team USA” – and they’re all puppets on a string lol
“ Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out… and the corporations sit there in their… in their corporation buildings, and… and, and see, they’re all corporation-y… and they make money.”
— Tim Robbins (puppet) in Team America World Police (2004) Trey Parker
It was quite telling to listen to Netanyahu speaking in the US Congress, openly reject the recent decision(s) of the ICJ with regards to Israel. He went as far to say that the US should be concerned for the ICJ might be coming after them next.
So, pray tell – if the jurisdiction of the ICJ is disregarded by Israel – then how does this attitude and conduct square with the assertion that Israel is a ‘democracy’ while simultaneously flagrantly disregarding the ‘Rule of Law’ ?
Barnett, you pose a good question. I suspect you know the anwer, but for discussion…the key issue is exceptionalism. Bibi’s visit to Congress appears to have had two purposes, closely allied, one unto the other. The first was for him to swear allegiance to the principle that the USA is exempt from all international conventions and obligations (Trump has repeatedly signalled this as well). As a message that resounded well with the Trumpies in the GOC, hence the accolade. Equally important was to claim that he, and Israel, are similarly exempt by virtue of their alliance with the USA.
I think this is relatively novel. Most US allies have historically loudly and proudly proclaimed their public (if not private) adherence to the international treaties and the obligations derived from them. Israel appears to be seeking to extend its position, to claim that it has the same impunity as the States.
I believe other allies are strongly minded to travel in the same direction – hence Tom Tughenhadt, announcing his candidacy recently, also declaring that he would like to rescind the UK’s obligations to observe any and all Human Rights through the ECHR. France also recently very publicly ignored an express ECHR decision.
The paranoia of the Israeli people and their fanatical belief in their uniqueness as the Chosen People fits the medical diagnoses of Paranoid Schizophrenia and Folie a Deux – where 2 or more people share a delusion. When this delusion is revealed to be impossible to rationalise a loss of identity can be catastrophic to the patient, and the effects on others can be harmful. CBT or DBT can open the closed mind to a wider concept of humanity and the safety of others. Belief in a right to harm others is mental illness and needs containing in order to prevent harm to potential victims.
You make a disturbing point Alyson. The notion of shared delusions writ so large, so distant from the level of individuals, provokes many questions concerning both contemporary and historical matters.
For any reader who wants to get an image of the consequences of a condition like Folie à Deux, there was a notorious case in 2010 involving two Swedish sisters – twins I think – interrupting traffic flow on the M6 and getting run over by oncoming traffic. They survived and were detained and sent to hospital. One woman was treated for cuts and bruises and was released after five hours at the police station. She then went on to murder a local man, Glenn Hollingsworth, later that evening before throwing herself off a motorway bridge, which she survived and was arrested and charged. The injured woman was kept in hospital and though run over by an articulated lorry was, relatively, not too badly injured, a few broken bones maybe.
The pair were diagnosed with Folie à Deux and the murderer spent a relatively short time in detention. The incident itself and the murder left many unanswered questions. Even the initial coverage of the motorway incident was in some ways, hard to believe – the BBC were travelling with the responding officers as part of a motorway cop reality TV show!? A spectacular incident filmed in real time. There are several documentaries on the internet, maybe the BBC have made one. Story here for any interested:
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/disturbed-twins-wreaked-chaos-m6-5042127
58 standing ovations for what exactly?
Israel considers itself a democracy and so does the US too. But just ‘considering’ your country as being Democratic doesn’t make it a fact.
The reason why all this death and destruction across the globe is ongoing is because of a lack of democracy not a surfeit of it.
In a Neo-liberal economic world, if you keep shovelling money up to the already rich at the expense of your old democratic bribes then the bribers (the politicians) run out of money to cover the bribes. Don’t forget that these politicians are not the actual rich -where the money is upwardly sent to – they are the employees of the rich who want a piece of the action too. The MSM are the employees also and will do nothing in order to continue to receive their incomes.
When the bribe money runs out, the electorate’s patience does. ‘Jam Tomorrow’ is turned into ‘No Jam Ever’, and they sense this – and live it. This is why the move to the right is inevitable, and it is rare (because they are not relatively impoverished yet) that they can afford to try this, try that, party etc. etc.
But once the Welfare/Social State is actually dismantled only then will they realise that they have been had. Because Neo-liberal economic states cannot brook opposition by States or groups of individuals: hence the crackdown on protest in general.
What is played out in Foreign Affairs ends up being played out Nationally on its own populace. Maybe that is what Netanyahu is hoping for. He is on the extreme right, so he should know these things.
Craig said that ” Ukraine/Russia is massively more complicated than the media would have you believe”.
A sovereign state has been invaded by its neighbour – which is ruled by a murderous autocrat.
Not that complicated at all.
It’s more complicated inasmuch as, Ukraine was hugely divided prior to the invasion. Even if every Russian troop left tomorrow, Ukraine would likely have a civil war. The federalism plans the ultra-nationalists rejected would have to be dusted off.
Where does the BBC’s state propaganda mention that Kyiv’s Maidan revolution was carried out in the pro-Europe Western part of Ukraine, and wasn’t accepted, in the historically more ethnically Russia-leaning East? Or the fact that a federalist solution that was on the table, was rejected by Zelensky because he was fearful of the Ukrainian ultra-nationalists’ reaction? Also playing heavily in that decision, were the urgings of the US and UK; both of whom wanted to bog Russia down in a costly, bloody attritional quagmire; to deplete Russian forces; strain their economy and justify further escalating sanctions, as part of their ongoing proxy war with Russia. A proxy war triggered by Putin ruining their grubby plans to remove Assad.
“A sovereign state has been invaded by its neighbour” is trotted out time and time again in the context of Ukraine, but is rarely mentioned when it comes to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Serbia and other countries whose respective state of sovereignty has been trampled on by USA and their allies. Not to omit Palestine, which would have been a sovereign state if international law had been followed.
A sovereign state with an illegitmate president – his mandate ran out on May 20th, whereas the murderous tyrant’s mandate was overwhelmingly renewed last March. Go figure.
Frank
In case you hadn’t noticed, Putin’s gang made sure that any credible candidates opposed to him were disqualified from running in the recent election by the totes independent Election Commission.
Navalny died in prison – nothing strange about that.
And of course countries under external attack don’t run elections till the war is over (Britain during ww2 for example).
Sigh.
Jaykay
The USA was at war with itself from 1861-1865 and certainly under external attack from 1941 until 1945, didn’t stop them from holding the scheduled presidential elections in 1864 & 1944. Russia was under attack from Ukraine in March this year, ditto.
The former comedian with the expired mandate was elected in 2019 specifically on a promise to negotiate an end to the civil war in the East of Ukraine (which, in case you didn’t realise, has been going on since 2014, when Victoria “Fuck the EU” Nuland, ably abetted by her attendant CIA goons, lit the blue touchpaper and stood well back*) based on the Minsk Accords. What happened to that particular electoral promise?
One of Putin’s rival candidates in March was from the old Soviet-era Communist Party – no friends of Putin, they, I think you’ll find.
By the way how do you know how the Russian presidential election was run? Judging by your posting history on here you just seem to swallow what you’re spoonfed by the bought and paid-for “dead-tree” media and the main-stream broadcasters – you’ll only ever get one side of the story from them.
*4000 miles well back, leaving the EU with a nasty mess in its backyard.
Sigh, indeed!
The Ukrainian Constitution prevents elections from being held when the country is under martial law, Frank, which it has been since February 2022 – and for six months after it’s lifted. The United States was not under attack from 1941-45; rather it was some of its unincorporated territories that were attacked by the Japanese in WWII. Pearl Harbor in the then territory of Hawaii was attacked in December 1941; the territories of Guam, Wake Island and The Philippines were attacked and occupied in the same month; and the islands of Attu & Kiska in the then territory of Alaska were invaded and occupied from June 1942. Comparatively few people residing in those territories that were occupied would have had the right to vote in the US presidential election of 1944 had they not been occupied.
I believe the Ukrainian constitution only prevents Presidential elections from being held, no bar on legislature elections although I’m sure, (with a probability of 1), that you’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
Any opinion on my first example of the US being under attack?
Thanks for your reply Frank. Just for that, I’m not going to correct you – so anyone who wants to find out whether you’re right or not will have to look it up.
Tom Welsh of this parish would say that the US wasn’t under attack during the American Civil War, and that the Confederate States were merely defending their newly established sovereign nation – I tend to disagree. Anyway, there’s nothing in the US Constitution which states that federal elections have to be suspended if martial law is being applied in one or more states. If there were, since both Maryland & Missouri were under de jure martial law in 1864, the presidential election would very likely not have taken place in that year.
The constitution says nothing about elections under martial law.
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine,_2004#Chapter_III:_Elections._Referendum
There is a regular law which says all elections are not held during martial law, not just presidential. According to this, anyway.
https://n-ost.org/article/constitution-put-to-test-during-martial-law
Ooh, you’re such a tease, LA!
I suppose it could be credibly argued that the United States was under external attack in 1861 – from the Confederate States, who had seceded from the Union after Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 election and whose forces (allegedly?) fired the first shots at Fort Sumter. Although it’s probably wise not to pursue this any further as, being off-topic, it may incur the wrath of the Modfathers.
Thanks for your reply John. The Ukrainian Constitution explicitly forbids parliamentary elections being held while the country is under martial law:
From Article 83:
‘In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine [the legislature] expires while a state of martial law or of emergency is in effect, its powers are extended until the day when the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine elected after the cancellation of the state of martial law or of emergency convenes its first meeting of the first session.’
I had thought that its constitution also forbade presidential elections being held under martial law but, according to Foreign Policy, that is prevented by Ukrainian law dating from before Zelensky became president:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky
Apologies for the error – although, technically, what I originally wrote (‘The Ukrainian Constitution prevents elections from being held when the country is under martial law’) wasn’t incorrect.
——–
Thanks for your reply Frank. Getting a bit old to tease anyone anymore.
Enjoy the weekend.
Dr Putin is a lawyer, and was keen to consolidate the requests of LPR and DPR under Article 51 of the UN charter for mutual protection in face of OSCE reported escalation imminent from Ukrainian positions in late Feb2022.
Commonly known as ‘unprovoked’, and more recently as ‘fullscale’, the suggestion that it’s an invasion is lost in the translation it seems.
The only things missing from the spectacle in the US congress were stiff-arm salutes, rhythmic chanting, and swastikas.
Contrast this with the wilful ignoring of the handful of dissidents, in particular congressman Jamaal Bowman of New York; his piece in yesterday’s Grauniad, calling the Gaza genocide a genocide, deserves honorable mention. Btw, the DNC moved to supplant him even before that, so presumably he felt he had nothing left to lose. And the peaceful pro-Palestine demonstration outside the hallowed halls, which was met with mace, pepper spray and assorted acts of violence by the government’s storm troopers.
“In Europe I am also hopeful that this will lead to a more widespread realisation that NATO is anything but a force for peace and stability, that the destruction of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan was a series of terrible crimes”
You missed out Libya and Yugoslavia.
I hope the ICJ will not be deterred from doing justice by anyone.
I am glad that leading Demcrats boycotted Netanyahu’s speech. He may have undertaken to give it at a time when he believed that Trump would win, and facing retribution at home for his own crimes. Hopefully justice will inexorably catch up with him.
Nothwithstanding Biden’s having to stand down because of the increasing frailty of old age, watching Kamala Harris’ speech at Delaware, I was heartened by the evident warm and strong affection between him and Harris (which is why I don’t believe that he would just hand her poisoned chalices and then abandon her to her fate). I wish her campaign all the best.
Hopefully the younger generation of American leaders will help make Palestine move from Israeli apartheid to full democracy between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, by mean of BDS.
I read that Polio has appeared in Gaza and the IDF are being vaccinated against it. Apparently, as can be expected, the Palestinians can’t get vaccinated. Could it be argued that this is a form of biological warfare and as such be counted as a[nother] war-crime. Obviously it would be difficult to prove that it is deliberate.
Patrick Lawrence has a new piece on Scheerpost illustrating the outrage everywhere except the Congress building:
https://scheerpost.com/2024/07/25/patrick-lawrence-gaza-we-cannot-remain-silent-any-longer/
Among others Lawrence links to Pankay Mishra´s recent long-read in the LRB – (see all links in a separate forum post here).
Below Mishra´s text LRB has one letter to the editor about the instrumentalisation of the term “Shoah”.
Most here will shrug it away as insignificant, not without justification. It diverts fom the “here and now”, a complaint I am making against my own older German friends telling them “open your eyes”.
Still, here the final paragraph from the letter, because it´s noteworthy in historic terms.
In Germany and France Lanzmann, although described by other as a mean person in real ife, is a saint as “propagandist of the cause”:
“(…)
This borrowed usage of ‘Shoah’ has spread since Claude Lanzmann’s film of that name appeared in 1985. The film is an impressive work of Zionist propaganda. Most people won’t see its biases (not a word about the Romany people and other groups who got the same treatment as Jews; not a word about the many brave non-Jews who risked their lives helping Jews to survive). Lanzmann’s choice of this title was one element of his ideological strategy. The more commonly used term ‘Holocaust’ was felt to be too general. A new term had to be introduced to the world. Lanzmann’s ingenious idea was to make a subliminal terminological connection between the genocide of Jews and the state of Israel. It is part of the hasbarah justification of the Zionist colonisation project as compensation for Jewish victimhood.
Moshé Machover
London NW6
(…)”
56 standing ovations stands for 186.000 dead Palestinian. Each happy clapper celebrated 3321 dead souls in front of a lying Adolf Benzion Mileikowski.
The cognitive dissonance of supporting a racist genocide of mostly women and children .. while posing as the scolding vanguard of woke anti racism and feminism. That is the US Democratic Party 2024, embodied now by Kamala Harris, and in Britain the BBC. The most evil gaslighters the world has seen.
The US (and all colonial powers) have a track record in this kind of evil. The way in which indigenous peoples in the American states were treated was genocide. The same occurred in Canada and to my mind is still happening. It is pure evil. The US has been going around the world killing people and displacing them in large numbers for what – greed and control.. It is clear from the disgusting exhibition in the US congress last night that genocide is just fine with US lawmakers. The Palestinians don’t count with them, not their hopes and dreams and families and land – just kick them out. As you say, it is the purest of evil. From where does it come? With this on going horror in Gaza and the impending horror against the street dogs and cats of Turkey, it is hard to sleep at night – the stuff of nightmares! Thanks for the post!