The detention of Pavel Durov is being portrayed as a result of the EU Digital Services Act. But having spent my day reading the EU Services Act (a task I would not wish upon my worst enemy), it does not appear to me to say what it is being portrayed as saying.
EU Acts are horribly dense and complex, and are published as “Regulations” and “Articles”. Both cover precisely the same ground, but for purposes of enforcement the more detailed “Regulations” are the more important, and those are referred to below. The “Articles” are entirely consistent with this.
So, for example, Regulation 20 makes the “intermediary service”, in this case Telegram, only responsible for illegal activity using its service if it has deliberately collaborated in the illegal activity.
Providing encryption or anonymity specifically does not qualify as deliberate collaboration in illegal activity.
(20) Where a provider of intermediary services deliberately collaborates with a recipient of the services in order to undertake illegal activities, the services should not be deemed to have been provided neutrally and the provider should therefore not be able to benefit from the exemptions from liability provided for in this Regulation. This should be the case, for instance, where the provider offers its service with the main purpose of facilitating illegal activities, for example by making explicit that its purpose is to facilitate illegal activities or that its services are suited for that purpose. The fact alone that a service offers encrypted transmissions or any other system that makes the identification of the user impossible should not in itself qualify as facilitating illegal activities.
And at para 30, there is specifically no general monitoring obligation on the service provider to police the content. In fact it is very strong that Telegram is under no obligation to take proactive measures.
(30) Providers of intermediary services should not be, neither de jure, nor de facto, subject to a monitoring obligation with respect to obligations of a general nature. This does not concern monitoring obligations in a specific case and, in particular, does not affect orders by national authorities in accordance with national legislation, in compliance with Union law, as interpreted by the Court of Justice of the European Union, and in accordance with the conditions established in this Regulation. Nothing in this Regulation should be construed as an imposition of a general monitoring obligation or a general active fact-finding obligation, or as a general obligation for providers to take proactive measures in relation to illegal content.
However, Telegram is obliged to act against specified accounts in relation to an individual order from a national authority concerning specific content. So while it has no general tracking or censorship obligation, it does have to act at the instigation of national authorities over individual content.
(31) Depending on the legal system of each Member State and the field of law at issue, national judicial or administrative authorities, including law enforcement authorities, may order providers of intermediary services to act against one or more specific items of illegal content or to provide certain specific information. The national laws on the basis of which such orders are issued differ considerably and the orders are increasingly addressed in cross-border situations. In order to ensure that those orders can be complied with in an effective and efficient manner, in particular in a cross-border context, so that the public authorities concerned can carry out their tasks and the providers are not subject to any disproportionate burdens, without unduly affecting the rights and legitimate interests of any third parties, it is necessary to set certain conditions that those orders should meet and certain complementary requirements relating to the processing of those orders. Consequently, this Regulation should harmonise only certain specific minimum conditions that such orders should fulfil in order to give rise to the obligation of providers of intermediary services to inform the relevant authorities about the effect given to those orders. Therefore, this Regulation does not provide the legal basis for the issuing of such orders, nor does it regulate their territorial scope or cross-border enforcement.
The national authorities can demand content is removed, but only for “specific items”:
51) Having regard to the need to take due account of the fundamental rights guaranteed under the Charter of all parties concerned, any action taken by a provider of hosting services pursuant to receiving a notice should be strictly targeted, in the sense that it should serve to remove or disable access to the specific items of information considered to constitute illegal content, without unduly affecting the freedom of expression and of information of recipients of the service. Notices should therefore, as a general rule, be directed to the providers of hosting services that can reasonably be expected to have the technical and operational ability to act against such specific items. The providers of hosting services who receive a notice for which they cannot, for technical or operational reasons, remove the specific item of information should inform the person or entity who submitted the notice.
There are extra obligations for Very Large Online Platforms, which have over 45 million users within the EU. These are not extra monitoring obligations on content, but rather extra obligations to ensure safeguards in the design of their systems:
(79) Very large online platforms and very large online search engines can be used in a way that strongly influences safety online, the shaping of public opinion and discourse, as well as online trade. The way they design their services is generally optimised to benefit their often advertising-driven business models and can cause societal concerns. Effective regulation and enforcement is necessary in order to effectively identify and mitigate the risks and the societal and economic harm that may arise. Under this Regulation, providers of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines should therefore assess the systemic risks stemming from the design, functioning and use of their services, as well as from potential misuses by the recipients of the service, and should take appropriate mitigating measures in observance of fundamental rights. In determining the significance of potential negative effects and impacts, providers should consider the severity of the potential impact and the probability of all such systemic risks. For example, they could assess whether the potential negative impact can affect a large number of persons, its potential irreversibility, or how difficult it is to remedy and restore the situation prevailing prior to the potential impact.
(80) Four categories of systemic risks should be assessed in-depth by the providers of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines. A first category concerns the risks associated with the dissemination of illegal content, such as the dissemination of child sexual abuse material or illegal hate speech or other types of misuse of their services for criminal offences, and the conduct of illegal activities, such as the sale of products or services prohibited by Union or national law, including dangerous or counterfeit products, or illegally-traded animals. For example, such dissemination or activities may constitute a significant systemic risk where access to illegal content may spread rapidly and widely through accounts with a particularly wide reach or other means of amplification. Providers of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines should assess the risk of dissemination of illegal content irrespective of whether or not the information is also incompatible with their terms and conditions. This assessment is without prejudice to the personal responsibility of the recipient of the service of very large online platforms or of the owners of websites indexed by very large online search engines for possible illegality of their activity under the applicable law.
(81) A second category concerns the actual or foreseeable impact of the service on the exercise of fundamental rights, as protected by the Charter, including but not limited to human dignity, freedom of expression and of information, including media freedom and pluralism, the right to private life, data protection, the right to non-discrimination, the rights of the child and consumer protection. Such risks may arise, for example, in relation to the design of the algorithmic systems used by the very large online platform or by the very large online search engine or the misuse of their service through the submission of abusive notices or other methods for silencing speech or hampering competition. When assessing risks to the rights of the child, providers of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines should consider for example how easy it is for minors to understand the design and functioning of the service, as well as how minors can be exposed through their service to content that may impair minors’ health, physical, mental and moral development. Such risks may arise, for example, in relation to the design of online interfaces which intentionally or unintentionally exploit the weaknesses and inexperience of minors or which may cause addictive behaviour.
(82) A third category of risks concerns the actual or foreseeable negative effects on democratic processes, civic discourse and electoral processes, as well as public security.
(83) A fourth category of risks stems from similar concerns relating to the design, functioning or use, including through manipulation, of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines with an actual or foreseeable negative effect on the protection of public health, minors and serious negative consequences to a person’s physical and mental well-being, or on gender-based violence. Such risks may also stem from coordinated disinformation campaigns related to public health, or from online interface design that may stimulate behavioural addictions of recipients of the service.
(84) When assessing such systemic risks, providers of very large online platforms and of very large online search engines should focus on the systems or other elements that may contribute to the risks, including all the algorithmic systems that may be relevant…
This is very interesting. I would argue that under Article 81 and 84, for example, the blatant use of both algorithms limiting reach and plain blocking by Twitter and Facebook, to promote a pro-Israeli narrative and to limit pro-Palestinian content, was very plainly a breach of the EU Digital Services Directive by deliberate interference with “freedom of expression and information, including media freedom and pluralism”.
The legislation is very plainly drafted with the specific intent of outlawing the use of algorithms to interfere with freedom of speech and public discourse in this way.
But it is of course a great truth that the honesty and neutrality of prosecution services is much more important to what actually happens in any “justice” system than the actual provisions of legislation.
Only a fool would be surprised that the EU Digital Services Act is being shoehorned into use against Durov, apparently for lack of cooperation with Western intelligence services and being a bit Russian, and is not being used against Musk or Zuckerberg for limiting the reach of pro-Palestinian content.
It is also worth noting that Telegram is not considered to be a very large online platform by the EU Commission who have to date accepted Telegram’s contention that it has less than 45 million users in the EU, so these extra obligations do not apply.
If we look at the charges against Durov in France, I therefore cannot see how they are in fact compatible with the EU Digital Services Act.
Unless he refused to remove or act over specific individual content specified by the French authorities, or unless he set up Telegram with the specific intent of facilitating organised crime, I do not see how Durov is not protected under Articles 20 and 30 and other safeguards found in the Digital Services Act.
The French charges appear however to be extremely general and not to relate to particular specified communications. This is an abuse.
What the Digital Services Act does not contain is a general obligation to hand over unspecified content or encryption keys to police forces or security agencies. It is also remarkably reticent on “misinformation”.
Regulations 82 or 83 above obviously provide some basis for “misinformation” policing, but the Act in general relies on the rather welcome assertion that regulations governing what speech and discourse is legal should be the same offline as online.
So in short, the arrest of Pavel Durov appears to be pretty blatant abuse and only very tenuously connected to the legal basis given as justification. This is simply a part of the current rising wave of authoritarianism in western “democracies”.
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Quite. But your conclusion could also be that, as the charges don’t appear to align with the Digital Services Act, we’re being presented with some kind of smokescreen.
Too little has been made of the fact that Durov landed at an airport that doesn’t take commercial airlines, in a private jet, coming from Azerbaijan, where, at the same time as himself, Putin was visiting. As Telegram is the de-facto communications app for the Russian military, and given Russia’s feigned offence at his arrest, we might be looking at a case of where Durov is ‘arrested’ with a somewhat plausible justification, for him to avoid ‘falling out of a window’ somewhere.
Or, why would Durov fly to France, where he had managed to obtain fast-track citizenship in 2021, where he knew he was going to be apprehended if he was to set foot on its soil?
Meanwhile, contrary to what many think, little on Telegram is encrypted, meaning that Telegram is very much capable of handing over problematic content, and related data, if so requested by law.
Ah, of course, the usual western media propaganda trope of “people falling out of windows in Russia” which is never substantiated.
And somehow they always forget to mention James Le Mesurier.
I put that between quotes on purpose, but perhaps you missed them. Nevertheless, https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-russians-fall-windows-putin-ukraine-war-1781790
What alarming information in the article on your link! The thing is that I also want “the soonest possible end to armed conflict through negotiations” and have expressed this many times.
I have two explanations why I haven’t fallen out of the window yet: 1. it works exclusively for oligarchs and owners of oil and gas companies 2. it’s hard to die trying to fall out of a window in the basement, ha ha 🙂
That Durov belongs in large part to France is a reasonable enough hypothesis.
Given the distribution of his assets, what is Durov likely to do if there’s a rapid escalation in either of the big ongoing wars, as it seems likely there will be, given inter alia Genocide Starmer’s meeting with Olaf Scholz in Berlin. That obviously didn’t focus mostly on migration and trade, for very clear reasons connected with Germany’s EU membership. (Germany’s not allowed to sign trade deals.)
If Durov has been involved in a big way in child pornography, one has to realise that that won’t principally be about selling material to private consumers. It will be about control over key figures, the same as it was with Jeffrey Epstein.
Talking of Epstein:
1. Another reference one might wish to use, in addition to defenestration in the East, might be alleged suicide in a prison cell in the West.
2. Curious how both Durov and Epstein seem to have been into making sure large quantities of their sperm were fertilised. Does Durov have a connection with the world of bioscience and biotechnology at all? Perhaps he’s Epstein 2. An interest in Caribbean island life too.
Could also be that Durov has been involving himself in French affairs and overreached himself.
I think that is possibly the least convincing effort I have ever seen to twist a narrative to make it Putin’s fault.
So why did Durov fly to France?
Sense of impunity, delusion, autism?
The fact is NATO regimes have a monomaniac desire for control or surveillance over social media.
For reasons that have bugger all to do with crime or terrorism. Those are very much niche concerns, that are fed to the plebs as *the* reasons.
He’s been keen on France trying to get the French passport, JK, it may well be it’s not the French but the Americans that put pressure on Micron, he couldn’t refuse their polite request. .
He already has the French passport.
According to the scuzz flying around Twitter/X, he was going to have dinner with Macron?!?! There is an interesting interview between him and Tucker Carlson https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel-durov, in which Durov states that he does comply with societal norms such as child porn – keeps them off Telegram.
“So why did Durov fly to France?”
Perhaps he fell out with Sheikh Maktoum in Dubai?
Well, thanks. But as JK redux comments, why did Durov fly to France?
Your saying that my narrative casts his arrest as “Putin’s fault” misinterprets my point. What I’m saying is that Durov full well knew he was going to be arrested, which would mean that he *wanted* to be arrested; His warrant was no secret. So, why did he fly to France?
Why should he not refuel his plane in France ? Perhaps he had other affairs there too, as it’s the country of his citizenship. As to the warrant, media say it was activated within 15 minutes on his landing. He might have known that the authorities take ‘interest’ in his Telegram messenger, but wasn’t aware of the arrest warrant
https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/le-pdg-franco-russe-de-la-messagerie-telegram-pavel-durov-arrete-en-france-a-la-descente-de-son-avion-25-08-2024-X6CJWLG3QFEDFA7KLI5IQXROUE.php
“A search warrant that was activated only if the individual was on French territory.”
He also has Russian citizenship, but he also purposely has not visited Russia for years. And he certainly is no regular French citizen. If you’re interested, read this article on Le Monde about his ‘mysterious’ acquisition of French citizenship (from September last year):
https://archive.ph/2023.09.14-230037/https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2023/06/26/le-mysterieux-passeport-francais-de-pavel-durov-fondateur-de-telegram_6179287_4408996.html
I also had seen that mentioning of ’15 minutes’ somewhere, but I do not think it meant the warrant was *created* within 15 minutes of his landing. I figured it meant ‘acted upon’, but perhaps I’m wrong.
I do know that some media reported that Durov had been avoiding visiting some European countries, implying that this was because of legal interest in Telegram. Here’s an article that mentions that:
https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-fondateur-et-pdg-de-la-messagerie-cryptee-telegram-interpelle-en-france-2316072.html
However, I can’t find this same claim from before his arrest.
Nevertheless, ‘refuelling’, or as Urban Fox suggests, “impunity, delusion, autism” are weak reasons *on their own*.
All this not to say that France’s claimed reasons for Durov’s arrest are somehow justified. It’s clear how moving in on Telegram could be comparable to the US attempting to take control of TikTok, for its refusal to kowtow to the western political narrative.
Small world. Durov is traveling in a Legacy 600, the very same type as the jet Prigozhin was flying when he unfortunately had a fatal accident.
Another reason to be very careful about refueling.
Hi Tatyana, will be kind and recommend a Telegram channel that it your view is worth watching? I have a number, they are OK, but what’s your favourite, please?
Hi, Baron. I unsubscribed of all of them, as my tender heart cannot stand all these war news. Especially painful is watching Western channels commenting as if they watch a boxing match.
I can only recommend The Duran, Alex Christoforou and Alexander Mercouris. A nice guy from Greece and nice guy from UK, they also invite guests who offer quite a variety of opinions.
Just don’t visit links that are offered by people in their group for comments, it might break your heart.
Thanks for the advice, Tatyana, will try and obey.
Why did Durov fly to France? Because he’s a man of leisure and travels a lot, that’s why.
He had problems with Russian government back in 2018, however, they came to an agreement and were happy with each other ever since. It is the US government that has problems with Durov.
Over 160 journalists mysteriously killed between the fall of communism and 2007 when Craig wrote this:-
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2007/06/russian_journal/#more-25956
Durov’s disappearance into the bowels of the totalitarian “national security” fictional legal machinery is quite rightly the subject of scrutiny and open discussion – even speculation.
But the fact that Julian Assange hasn’t spoken or been seen in public for two months, after arriving in “5 eyes” Australia, can only be because he is having a holiday at the beach. Alone. Because his wife Stella has been in Europe for the last few weeks.
Got it.
Putin would not have to be there if he wanted him killed , so your story is just that babak , a story made up of nonsense
Indeed, making a refueling stop in Paris when you’re flying from Baku to Dubai shows a rather poor command of geography. Whether or not Durov met with Putin during his last trip, Telegram certainly is currently a very powerful tool, and as such deserves close consideration by various decision makers.
Elon Musk is obviously preaching for his own chapel, since he’s also under scrutiny from EU lawmakers and very recently received a formal warning from Commissioner Breton regarding X policies.
In any case, there are so far no charges pressed against Durov, and chances are he may return to his private jet within a day or two. It will then be very interesting to hear what HE has to say about this “abuse of law”. And what conversations he had while in Paris.
Telegram’s lack of end-to-end encryption, says this Guardian article is indeed what seems to make Telegram distinctive, although why that position should attract surveillance-wary users, I don’t know, if that is accurate. The article suggests Telegram may be falsely advertising its service.
This is entirely accurate. Telegram is distinctive because it is one of/the only platform that simultaneously lacks E2E encryption, and claims to be privacy respecting. Durov pinkie swears that your communications through Telegram are private, without implementing anything into Telegram that would back up that supposed commitment in any meaningful way. He has for years dismissed concerns about lack of E2E encryption, attacking Signal and other actually secure messaging applications.
You need only look at media headlines to see how effective this propaganda campaign has been. I do not know where it started, whether from Durov himself or from media wanting to paint Telegram as nefarious, but the words “Telegram” and “Encrypted” appear together in an incredible number of articles, painting an entirely false picture of what the application actually is. As an example, the BFMTV article from the 24th mentions “messagerie chiffrée” at least five times in an article with six paragraphs. I’m rather amazed that the Guardian article got it right.
I have no idea what to make of this fact, as it could be the result of hubris, or any number of motives played out by any number of actors.
How the fuck would you know if Russia’s offence is feigned or not? You sound like a pompous twat.
X owner – Elon Musk has spoken out on Durov’s arrest.
“US tech mogul Elon Musk has asked French President Emmanuel Macron to shed light on the reasons behind the arrest of Telegram founder and CEO Pavel Durov. The Russian entrepreneur was detained last week upon arriving at Paris-Le Bourget Airport.
The French judicial authorities have twice extended Durov’s detention. The Paris Public Prosecutor’s Office has stated that he was arrested as part of a broad criminal inquiry against an unnamed person.
“It would be helpful to the global public to understand more details about why he was arrested,” Musk wrote in a comment under Macron’s post on X (formerly Twitter).
On Sunday, the French leader took to X to deny having any political motive for detaining Durov. He insisted that the arrest is part of “an ongoing judicial investigation” in which the courts will decide the entrepreneur’s fate.
Reports suggest that the authorities believe Durov is complicit in a range of crimes allegedly committed via the social media app due to insufficient moderation.”
https://www.rt.com/news/603140-musk-macron-explain-durov/
It would appear that – charges against Durov, will stem from something in this region – with not enough moderation in place.
“Durov could face charges ranging from complicity in drug dealing and money laundering, to facilitating the distribution of child pornography.”
I am sure Durov has enough money to hire the best lawyers available. However, in this case, I am afraid they’ll use some loopholes to hold him indefinitely or until he bends to the demands of CIA, FBI, or whatever US agency is behind this. This approach already worked well in Guantanamo, why not in Paris?
Seems to me a case of arresting the owner of a bus company because you don’t like their passengers !
Lot of irrelevant mud slinging by the MSM to support the approved narrative, and where’s the USA in all this ?
Yes! Crime was fought before the digital age, and sometimes police had to chase criminals fleeing in cars, but no one thought of accusing a road construction or car manufacturing company of helping criminals. It’s just absurd.
It is likely he was not arrested but voluntarily detained to explain why he is in France , perfectly legal , everyone has to explain why they have arrived in a country .
Durov has French citizenship. I don’t think it’s normal to ask your own citizens to explain why they have arrived in a country.
Everyone seems to think, Tatyana, it’s the French that wanted to detain Durov, they didn’t, it must have been the Americans, they are running the show, the French are but one of the pawns doing the proxies for them.
Tatyana, i returned to Britain after many years abroad in order to replace a stolen passport.
I was asked at the border ‘reason for your visit’!!! The officer said ‘you don’t have much luggage for such a time away’.
.
.
What a racist bigot was that immigration officer.
A wee bit more – on Durov’s arrest – through the eyes of the Serbian President Vucic.
“Charges against Telegram founder Pavel Durov in France show that the West has abandoned the values it championed just a few years ago, Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic has said.
The 39-year-old Russian was detained by French authorities on Saturday, after arriving in Paris from Azerbaijan by private jet. Durov also has the passports of France, the UAE and St. Kitts and Nevis.
Speaking on a newscast on Monday evening, Vucic said that Durov’s case was “interesting” and compared him to the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.
“Back in 2018, when Russia put some mild legal pressure on him, some 26 groups from the West signed a petition to the Russian state to stop violating his freedom. Fast forward five or six years, and it’s perfectly normal [for them] to have him arrested and want to shut down Telegram in the West,” Vucic said.”
“President Emmanuel Macron has defended the arrest, insisting that charges against Durov were “in no way a political decision.”
https://www.rt.com/news/603117-durov-arrest-west-inverted-vucic/
I imagine if Durov was to take an escorted trip to auschwitz and learn the errors of his way then he would repent and do the required goy grovel and all would be well. Worked for Musk.
I don’t suppose we can blame the French government for this since Macron does not want to form one.
The talk tonight is that Macron may support Le Pen’s and National Rally’s pick of Jordan Bardella for the role of Prime Minister. Were Bardella PM already, in all probability Durov wouldn’t have been detained, or would be quickly released.
Macron is a schemer, who has gamed the run-off system in France to his and his centrist party’s advantage on numerous occasions; often rallying purely negative support to stop the far-right. His thinking now, will be: if the far right fail in office, they’ll be less of a threat at the next election. Most expected the far-right to simply brood, menacingly, in opposition – watching from the sidelines as the NFP took their rightful place in government. However, Macron has refused to nominate a govt led by the left. The left, in the form of the four-party coalition that is the New Popular Front alliance (NFP), collectively won the most seats in the election – and are understandably furious with Macron’s selfish behaviour.
Macron is playing the left and right for fools imho. They should impeach him, but you apparently need 2/3rds of both houses to impeach a President – and his opponents control but one house. I think there is going to be lots of trouble in France, as Macron’s centrism crumbles.
Comment from the Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova on her Telegram channel (machine translation):
“But I remembered how in 2018 a group of 26 NGOs, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Freedom House, Reporters Without Borders, the Committee to Protect Journalists and others, condemned the Russian court’s decision to block Telegram. Other similar statements were made in the West.
They said all this because on July 1, 2018, the Yarovaya Law came into force in Russia, obliging telecommunications operators to store records of telephone messages and Internet traffic of their clients for six months, as well as keys to decrypt users’ correspondence and provide them to the FSB of Russia upon request.
(…)
At the same time, Durov remained at large all this time, continuing to develop Telegram.
I am publishing a screenshot of all the Western specialized structures that spoke out then, including with a collective appeal. Do you think they will appeal to Paris this time and demand Durov’s release, or will they swallow their tongues?”
Pavel Durov was arrested by France which is a Western democracy. Western democracies are the good guys, while godless Communist dictatorships (or post Soviet fascist doctatorships) are the bad guys.
Therefore we should abandon Durov to his fate and let the French security and justice systems get on with it. Simple, eh?!
Vive la France!
That’s right. Ever since Brexit, the EU and its endless bureaucracy is just a distant nightmare. But then, there’s nothing either to stop from enjoying good old French bashing. Macron is certainly a perfect scapegoat.
The passages below suggest to me how the authorities are sidestepping the laws that protect Durov.
“This measure comes in the context of a judicial investigation . . .”
***”This investigation was opened against person unnamed.”*** [That is, presumably NOT Durov]
“. . . It was within this procedural framework in which Pavel DUROV was questioned.”
So they are holding Durov on a “(material) witness warrant” for testimony against The Real Baddie.
You know, it may take a few decades to find that nameless scoundrel, especially if he is so diabolically clever that he refuses to exist. But have faith they will Get Their Man!
Adventurist foreign wars and domestic police state methods are all of a piece aimed at distracting from the collapsing UK economy and global financial markets. In reality we have a parasitic capitalist system run by an elite for the elite. New lies, new enemies and new threats are in constant need of invention in order to maintain the fiction of a functioning democracy. Alex Krainer provides some evidence.
https://alexkrainer.substack.com/p/the-coming-collapse-of-britain
He’s spot on. Hard austerity at home and reckless adventurism abroad has left the UK spiralling the drain.
Is it more politically correct to spiral down the drain clockwise or anti clockwise?
Since Craig Mokhiber´s text on media, free speech and genocide was not discussed here, this is the link:
I find this extremely important.
And as far as I understand it I see Mokhiber´s position as highly problematic.
Unless of course – which is pure fiction – the same court decision in such cases would not only judge over the medium on trial but also over the question whether the cause was indeed genocide or not, was indeed war crimes or not, every single time anew. Since only a comprehensive, holistic court judgement could do real justice:
“Western Media Can Be Held Legally Accountable For Its Role In the Gaza Genocide”
https://scheerpost.com/2024/08/24/western-media-can-be-held-legally-accountable-for-its-role-in-the-gaza-genocide/
After some historic background follows his bottom-line (3rd last paragraph):
“(…)
But free speech guarantees do not protect incitement to war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. Those acts can and must be subject to criminal accountability.
(…)”
If we take the attack by RU on UKR which by legal standards was a violation of Art. 51 and technically is a war crime – defending it, justifying it, doing all kinds of argumentation in a paper which we have engaged in here – that could amount to a crime, if I understand those words correctly.
If we speak about shaping pinciples, i.e. rules and laws of conduct that norm our lives and therefore are not subject to individual court decision, but are instead their foundation – then I have to disagree wholeheartedly as a supporter of unhinged First Amendment Rights.
Of course it has to be understood that media are social networks and full of hierarchy and suppression.
It is rather likely that European legacy media – would they truly be independent and internally free of authoritarian rule, would report about Israel´s genocide.
So eventually what should be on trial: It is capitalist stucture of the news business. But to question that is a dead end.
“So eventually what should be on trial: It is capitalist stucture of the news business. But to question that is a dead end.”
It is much broader than that, it is the whole tennets of capitalism that is based on a mafia like extraction that should be questioned and changed.
on Durov and Zuckerberg:
1) Mark Sleboda being in Moscow sees the CIA behind it. TG was the major communication channel for RU (and UKR) military even secret service officials. To destroy TG upsets those channels. And apparently the very moment when RU learned of Durov´s arrest they immediately instructed their people to delete everything posted and stop posting.
So the fallout has yet to be seen.
2) In this context may be, may be not: Mark Zuckerberg wrote a letter of apology to Jim Jordan which usually would be all over the media right now. But it is not.
Let me quote the little that is known via Matt Taibbi so far.
This too is quite a big story because Zuckerberg himself admits US government intrusion and pressure on Meta´s moderation/censorship:
“(…)
In 2021, senior officials from the Biden administration, including the White House, repeatedly pressured our teams for months to censor certain COVID-19 content, including humor and satire, and expressed a bit of frustration with our teams when we didn’t agree… I believe the government was wrong, and I regret that we were not more outspoken about it…
(Taibbi:) Another was about Meta’s blocking of Miranda Devine’s 2020 New York Post story about Hunter Biden after being warned by the FBI:
The FBI warned us about a potential Russian disinformation operation about the Biden family and Burisma in the lead up to the 2020 election. That fall, when we saw a New York Post story reporting on corruption allegations involving then Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s family, we sent that story to fact-checkers for review and temporarily demoted it while waiting for a reply. It’s since been made clear that the reporting was not Russian disinformation, and in retrospect, we should not have demoted the story.
(…)”
Of course do not look for Palestine – please stay on the carpet everyone 😉
But were there a campaign directed at fb and Zuckerberg to provoke a simiiar statement in regards of the Gaza genocide I doubt he could wind himself out of that with evidence solid as brick walls.
“ But it is of course a great truth that the honesty and neutrality of prosecution services is much more important to what actually happens in any “justice” system than the actual provisions of legislation‘.
That is a very important statement and applies not only to national criminal and civil law, but also the way the west has dealt with international law. Great insight, thank you.
Western elites are past caring about optics. The genocide in Gaza is so brazen and without repercussion that they have abandoned all restraint – look at Macron now simply ignoring election results. They are no longer making any effort to conceal this stuff because they know there will be no consequences. God help us all.
I fully agree and interestingly this was also clearly stated by Pompeo “we lied, we cheated, we stole” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPt-zXn05ac. The brazen actions of Israel and the way that nuclear blackmail by Zelensky is tolerated by Western politicians and press, something that would have not only incurred wrath but probably pre-emptive bombing, if it came from Iran, is telling. Moreover all the instruments of total control are being put in place, including the co-option of the law and its selective application.
Used to be that we’d read stuff in the papers and suspect they were lying but couldn’t know for sure. Then things like Facebook came along where people we sort of knew and trusted posted proof of the lies. Well that had to stop, one way or another. In Facebook’s case by burying things like that in a tide of dross and, wherever possible, tagging them as Fake News on some flimsy pretext. It’s a facet of the process of enshittification (look it up) that tends to afflict private enterprise (public has different problems) but the spooky factions are bound to be helping it along. Maybe Telegram hasn’t been moving fast enough.
Anyway, where do we go to keep information flowing? Moving from one private network to another is just playing the mole in Whack-A-Mole. There’s independent Web sites like this one. There’s Mastodon, which is a federation of servers that are harder to nobble.
An interesting one I just spotted is Delta Chat. Seemingly funded by the EU, probably to inconvenience the Russians. Looks sort of WhatsApp like. It’s Open Source so can’t be restricted and can at least in principle be checked for spooky back doors. Uses existing email infrastructure for transport so much harder to stop than the others with their central control and dedicated servers. Uses well established PGP encryption, probably with Web Of Trust to guard against Man In The Middle attack (none of the other End To End encrypted services seem to address that one which is a glaring omission).
But why do so many people still believe the lies? In the last decades of the Soviet Union, almost nobody did.
Out of the USA comes the delightful term “Low Information Voter”. If you’re not particularly interested in world affairs and just see snippets when you’re slow changing the channel when the “news” comes on or while you’re turning the pages of the Mail looking for the celebrity gossip, that’s going to be all you’re aware of. But your vote counts the same as everyone else’s.
Macron does as his handler$ tell him.
Presumably Mr Durov is to be prosecuted for “operating a business while Russian”.
Sounds like a plan…
Better than invading your neighbours while Russian.
Still better than invading people you don’t know and don’t care about thousands of miles away while American.
I think Macaroni is reaching the point where power has gone to his head and he ought to retire to the countryside with his grandad.
I think the CIA has come after Telegram simply because of its superior news content which gives almost real time accounts of what is going on in their hotspots – Ukraine, Gaza etc which they cannot control through its usual filters of Reuters, Associated Press and msm. I pick up quite a lot of news from Telegram long before I see the same and usually distorted news on BBC.
Telegram is used extensively by Ukrainian and Russian bloggers, who are sophisticated in their methods and quite capable of sorting out the news wheat from the chaff so that you can get an all round view unlike that from the msm which is usually pretty well one sided.
Telegram’s main threat is to the “manufacturing of consent”.
What is currently happening is very good for Telegram, in terms of business. In the last few days, downloads of the App have been significantly increased, and this should continue if any charges are brought in France against its founder.
There’s no such thing as bad publicity…
https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/26/durov-arrest-boosts-telegram-app-downloads/
Another day and another person being persecuted for speaking the truth.
“For retweeting two tweets on X critical of Israel, famed Australian journalist Mary Kostakidis is facing charges of allegedly violating the country’s Racial Discrimination Act.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/08/28/acclaimed-journalist-charged-with-anti-semitism/
It’ll be our turn soon …
So let’s get this straight: If the UK was still in the EU, it would now be completely legal to set up and make large profits from an encrypted messaging service that was mostly used by big-league drug dealers, like the EncroChat was, as long as you stated that that facilitating organised crime wasn’t its main purpose – but if you allowed a business premises that you owned or leased to be used to set up wholesale Class A drug deals, like what goes on in Turkish restaurants on Green Lanes, under the Misuse of Drugs Act that would still be punishable by up to 14 years in clink, whether you made any money out of it or not? If that is indeed the case, I’m sure that Durov can afford expensive lawyers to get him off most, if not all, of the French charges.
You entitled a recent article along the lines of “we are the bad guys”…and I agree. Though I do have to query why it’s not more correct to state “we are also the bad guys”. There really seems to be some attitude that any criticism of Putin (and similar autocrats) is invalid and dismissed as Russophobia. But I imagine you would have been pretty critical of Johnson if he had remained in power for as long as Putin has…?
It’s sad to see the abuse of power in which France is engaging, as you describe, and it does make the West hypocrites (just as Salmond, your, Assange et al’s obscene prosecution and your and Assange’s incarceration did) but does being hypocrites make criticism of Putin, Xi, Saud, Trump, Jong Un etc. any less valid? Surely we should want everyone everywhere to not be abusing power?
Nota Tory Fanboy
I’m Russian and I notice criticism of Russia and the authorities, simply because I live here and I care what people outside say about my country. That is, I probably notice even the little things that might go unnoticed by other people.
From what I have seen here, Mr. Murray is quite critical of Putin. (At first it was upsetting, like looking in the mirror and seeing an ugly person instead of a beauty. But then I pulled myself together and decided to be an adult.).
I trust his criticism, since he lived here for a long time and had access to certain information. I could not help but notice that his attitude was formed mainly from sources that were opposed to the Russian authorities, and I think this is due to the fact that he was not just a visitor, but was trained in political affairs as a British diplomat. Imo, this inevitably implies a certain attitude towards all things Russian – some things are exaggerated, and some are hushed up.
Plus, he lived in Uzbekistan during the period around the collapse of the USSR. Plus, he considers himself a libertarian, like the Navalny movement in Russia. Plus, he is tolerant of sexual minorities, a path that Russia still needs to take, starting with education, before taking radical actions.
He has a very negative attitude towards Stalin’s deportations, also due to personal connections. And I have seen his opinion on events in one of the Central Asian regions clearly stem from a specific source.
He also has a personal attitude towards people falling out of windows, as he mentioned that his friend died that way.
And people falling out of windows was the first argument brought to the comments on this blog by our usual line-up of anti-Russian commentators.
From which I conclude that someone tries to influence Mr. Murray, which means that his opinion may be important to a large number of people, which also may mean that Mrr. Murray is ‘persuadable’.
Overall, Mr. Murray is definitely not a fan of Putin, and it is unlikely that he would give him any preferences over Johnson. Rather, in my opinion, he wants to be as objective as possible based on his experience and the information available to him – a quality that I deeply respect.
latest news in Russia:
Pavel Durov was taken to court.
Two cars with flashing lights on left the National Bureau for Combating Fraud at high speed in the suburbs of Paris, where Durov was rumored to be after his arrest.
According to European media, citing an administrative document received from a source involved in the case, the Telegram case involves the messenger’s co-founders, brothers Pavel and Nikolai Durov. French authorities issued arrest warrants for them on March 25.
It is alleged that this was done as part of an undercover investigation conducted by the Paris prosecutor’s cybercrime department. During the investigation, an unnamed suspect discussed inciting underage girls to film porn and send it out, as well as threats to publish these materials on social networks.
The brothers were put on the wanted list after a court request to establish the identity of one of the Telegram users went unanswered. Thus, arrest warrants for the Durovs were issued on charges including complicity in the possession, distribution, offering and providing access to pornographic images of minors in an organized group.
At the same time, the media writes that there is no hint that the brothers are directly involved in any illegal activity.
The source in the French prosecutor’s office reported that only Pavel Durov is currently involved in the Telegram case. The agency’s (RIA News*) interlocutor refused to comment on the information about the arrest warrant for the Telegram founder, citing the confidentiality of the investigation.
At the same time, he added that a new statement on the case is planned to be published in the evening.
In mid-April, Pavel Durov told Tucker Carlson in an interview that his brother Nikolai is an expert in cryptography, and it was he who developed the basic principles of data encryption in Telegram.
—
Waht I know about Nikolay Durov is that he’s a geek and a genius, learned to read at the age of 4 and by 7 or 8 years age he was able to solve equations with variables to the third degree.
The thick is becoming plotter.
Rumors has it that brother Pavel actually told the police he was expecting to “eat with Macron”.
The WSJ (typical msm) writes that Durov and Macron met on many occasions, but privately, as early as 2018 and had lunch together on at least one occasion.
What’s the next episode? We should find out soon enough. Thanks, Tatyana, for forwarding all these news. Probably easier from Russia than from Europe, let alone France where there’s no government, but apparently yet another Olympics ceremony.
My guess, is this all relates to how Telegram is being used in Ukraine, and how France, like the UK, is so heavily involved there. Russia allegedly has lots of spies on the ground in Ukraine, feeding back info as to western-supplied munition storage locations, troop locations and then Russia precisely strikes with Iskander – they are clearly hitting Ukrainian depots, because the near daily strikes are often accompanied by lots of secondary explosions.
Rumours abound about the deaths of western military personnel, trainers etc. The West, especially the UK, have near blanket secrecy and the media are voluntarily censoring by not reporting on western involvement, so we really don’t know? Where does Telegram fit in : the likely means by which the information is getting back to Russia is via secure mobile apps eg.Telegram. Those Ukrainians secretly working with the Russians, and those undercover aren’t going to carry around military encryption gear and mobile satellite uplink equipment, are they.
I’m more practical and cynical.
In June, Telegram launched an internal payment system, in fact, it can be used as money transfers between users. It looks like a direct competitor to PayPal. So far, Google and Apple charge transaction fees, but it was announced that recipients of payments can withdraw them in the Toncoin cryptocurrency (also owned by Telegram and traded on crypto exchanges).
Telegram’s audience around the world has reached 950 million people, perhaps someone would like to have access to this money and control these transactions.
Just imagine that you in the UK send me money in Russia and the US cannot track it.
It only takes you a pervert, a drug dealer and a docile Frenchman to put this money flow under your control.
Could be various things, hence why I stated it was simply my guess.
Some may say, well, Russia has military satellites for that observational stuff – but Ukraine are deploying lots of decoys and trying to obfuscate munition transport locations with multiple trucks and warehouses. Intel from eyes and ears on the ground giving confirmation of stuff being unloaded is valuable I’d imagine. The Telegraph carried an article a while back stating that Russia’s intelligence information gathering was the one of the few things that was going well for them. Mobile apps offering military grade encryption, with no data retained on the device, are a powerful tool in a warzone, It’s also reported Russian troops are using Telegram to coordinate attacks such is the parlous, limited state of military communications gear. And thus, shutting Telegram down may be part of France’s and a wider NATO aim? I wouldn’t discount this idea, as being what’s behind Durov’s detention.
Most of the content on Telegram isn’t end-to-end (E2EE) encrypted apparently – they are just open groups. You have to specifically select E2EE which is available for private one-to-one communications. Telegram does cooperate to take down groups and illegal content, but it seems to do so on an inconsistent, ad hoc basis.
The concerning thing and danger here, is that France seems to be trying to shoehorn in an attack on E2EE, as if trying to create a dangerous precedent; whereby companies’ offering ‘no-knowledge’ E2EE apps are somehow complicit if the privacy the app provides is misused. It’s also worth mentioning that there are free ‘open source’ software(FOSS) equivalent alternatives, albeit they’re not as automated as these one-click apps, thus less attractive to the masses. If E2EE apps are banned, the crims will likely just use those. The encryption is done on the devices, on the fly, and only the sender and receiver can see the content being exchanged – the app can be configured so there is no record to hand over too. This is a relatively new development, as mobile devices CPU’s have become more powerful in the last 10-15 years. Authorities hate E2EE, because they can’t use a dragnet approach – the old way of doing things allowed them to simply issue a warrant – in secret – to the company and get all messages, E2EE privacy empowers individuals.
Many in the US seem to have little sympathy thus far, I’d guess because of the liberal media’s Russia bashing, Russiagate and the general anti-Russian feeling in a starkly politically divided US. But the precedent that could be set here, could end tech companies like Apple, Meta’s ability to provide E2E privacy in apps like iMessage and FaceTime and WhatsApp. I’ve never personally use Telegram FYI.
I use Telegram app. Tried to istall the desktop version recently, as I find it easier to type with a normal keyboard raather than pushing small symbols on the smartphone screen.
Well, it refused, because I forgot my password and didn’t give the e-mail on registration. Generally, Telegram only requires a mobile phone number to become a user.
So, what personal info do Telegram owner has access to? Phone number? I see often in shopping centers sim-cards given away by mobile operators. Hello, even a refrigirator and a teapot may use sim-cards to be connected to the Internet! How on Earth can it help to identify a criminal?
Another question is – why do the authorities charge the messenger with the obligation to disclose personal data? How did they manage to catch criminals before messengers appeared in the world at all? Even if there was a criminal involved in child porn, I can suggest a couple of dousens of methods to come in direct contact with him, as normally police detectives do. Non of those would require the messenger’s owner to be arrested.
‘So, what personal info do Telegram owner has access to?’
Besides metadata, what’s collected obviously depends on their data retention policies and each company is different with regards to non-E2EE data.
If France has problems with Telegram’s lack of cooperation, they could have simply banned the app in France, as many other authoritarian countries have. Of course, those determined to carry on using it would have found a DNS workaround, but blocking access to the servers via French ISPs DNS, and other DNS like google France, Cloudflare servers in France etc.. would have been enough for the majority to lose access.
Yes.
But I assume this is an example of “Pre-crime”. Although that is originally a sci-fi term it obviously has become part of real-world law enforcement. So they are telling us they prevent crimes from happening. And the MSM swollow this. But they already did so in the past.
First this was introduced with wire-tapping in so-called terrorism context in the 1970s. People who were suspected to have contacts were eavesdropped on. And from then onwards it became worse and worse.
p.s. it is interesting that Hollywood used to have a slot for popular movies about this issue under guise criticizing national security ideology. Most popular example was once “Enemy of the State” with an extremely goofy Will Smith starring (which made one wondering later-on how he made it into that category of star. On the other hand most actors learn and become better. )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
There is very little political pushback in defence of citizens’ rights to privacy and freedom of speech – we saw it with the indifferent response to Snowden’s revelations; and then with their unwillingness to speak up for Assange. It’s why we need some sort of digital bill of rights; then our privacy isn’t left to some politician’s arbitrary, on a whim, decision.
For authorities, tasked with preventing crime and terrorism, surveillance powers are purely a utilitarian argument about whether having greater capabilities would make their jobs easier. Govts should – that is, were they representative of those who elect them i.e. us – sometimes say, ‘no, you’ve got enough powers already’ and we won’t grant you any more capability. But which politician wants the security services briefing the press, that they were the one that let something happen eg. a terror atrocity? It’s possible to see it from both perspectives.
I do think we are in an age tho, where the quality of politicians has slumped to the point where they see themselves, primarily, as the servants of the financial markets; the military complex and spy agencies, rather than the public. That’s why faith in democracy is collapsing.
sorry not totally an exact answer (for that I first have to think about it)
… the crazy thing about the evolution of surveillance in Germany e.g. is, today´s state would shock those very people who established the anti-terrorism practice in the 1970s.
Horst Herold who was Germany´s first genuine anti-terrorist “cop” was head of the Federal Criminal Police Office and he modernized the force in ways not unlike what Hoover did with the FBI.
But unlike Hoover Herold was a leftist. He had sound views on Marxism and was a lifelong member of the Social Democratic Party.
Go figure.
p.s. which is why he “got” the RAF´s agenda.
Goose, a good joke on democracy:
– Last night I was explaining democracy to the kids: there was a vote about which movie to watch and which pizza to order. Then I chose the pizza and the movie myself, because I was the only one with money.
– You showed a dictatorship! Democracy works a little differently. You should secretly poll each child, and then you would announce that the majority chose the pizza and the movie (which you like). And if the deception is revealed, then you should declare that the vote count was honest, and those who disagree will eat pizza crusts standing in the corner as punishment for discrediting the government.
I’m probably totally wrong but I’ve had this suspicion for a while that commonly used RSA Encryption is not as secure as some people believe. With the rise of super computers as used by the likes of GCHQ and NSA there may be a risk that the key lengths commonly used are ‘crackable’, maybe not in real time but in realistic time. And, of course the SS have access to various hacks that could bypass the Encryption altogether. Just a thought …
In terms of cryptography, E2EE produces a unique session each time – using perfect forward secrecy. Now imagine millions of unique sessions all with different session keys. The fact Telegram’s owner opposes such State intrusion into citizens;’ privacy and is anti -mass surveillance; plus they employ clever people who regularly update the app; hardening it against things like downgrade attacks and MiTM etc. Telegram’s ownership and HQ location is no doubt frustrating to the West too.
Maybe they can break some encryption? But not at that sort of scale for it to be a worthwhile use of resources on what’d basically be a fishing expedition. They don’t have such problems with tech companies located in the West; as they can just issue secret court orders to a company, and target an individual with say a sketchy update I’d guess?
As Snowden said: encryption works … if properly implemented. Don’t forget, a lot of this stuff isn’t some mysterious arcane code, the math is proven and it’s demonstrable via openssl and network analyzers like Wireshark – you can literally view your connections and configure firewalls, servers’ NFtables – rulesets to only allow the connections you specify; use strong ciphers and verify through TLS.
Did you read about the recent (April) attempt to backdoor ssh via compression library XZ Utils – the fact state actors tried, indicate it’s secure. The remarkable lack of interest from Western govts as to who this Jia Tan is/was, if a real person at all? speaks volumes too.
If you understand networking, you can monitor traffic in realtime and create very secure environments, for most people, it’s just not worth bothering. But I’d imagine serious criminal gangs, probably do employ qualified people to provide them with secure comms. They wouldn’t rely on some app, or Apple’s confusing terms and conditions, as to whether iMessage is in fact end-to-end, or not.
Tempest.
The crackdown – on anyone in a prominent position in Australia who points out Israel’s atrocities in Gaza.
“Mary Kostakidis, for years the face of television news in Australia as anchor of the SBS nightly broadcast, has been accused of supporting ethnic cleansing of Jews for two retweets about Israel’s war on Gaza.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/08/28/acclaimed-journalist-charged-with-anti-semitism/
Follow the money.
All these ‘events’ are related, it’s an international agenda funded by Israel.
Israel only exists because of American money.
Israel wants an ‘end of days’ war and Palestine is a means to that war. (As was 9/11 !)
America wants chaos in the ME so that they can steal the arabs’ assets: oil, grain, rare elements, etc.
Of course it’s only another conspiracy theory and we’re obviously racist, anti-semites for pointing it out.
It seems that his high connections were not enough to save the day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/28/business/telegram-ceo-pavel-durov-charged.html
The poor guy.
From that NYT link: “Laure Beccuau, the Paris prosecutor, said in a statement that Mr. Durov had been ordered to pay bail of 5 million euros, or about $5.5 million, and was released but must check in at a police station twice a week.”
So the billionaire has to pay bail of €5 million and check in with les flic 2 times per week?
Even the KGB could not have been so cruel.
Perhaps we should organise a march on the Bastille?
Or on the Russkiy Embassy to show our support?
Or on the Four Seasons Hotel George V where the poor man is no doubt slumming it tonight?
Ne vous inquiété pas mes amis.
“Aux armes citizens…”
Is low-level snark all you have to offer any more, with some anti-Russian non sequiturs shoe-horned in to bolster an already weak point? No offence, but this seems to make up the bulk of your contributions these days.
Glenn_nl
My point was clear.
Durov is not under arrest and €5 million is nothing to a billionaire.
I’m not anti Russian, just very much anti the Putin regime.
Humour is sometimes the best way to make a political point.
“After more than 80 hours in police custody – the period applicable to offenses related to organized crime having been extended to 96 hours –, Telegram messaging boss Pavel Durov was placed under formal investigation on Wednesday, August 28 for all 12 offenses listed in the introductory indictment, including “complicity in managing an online platform to allow illicit transactions by an organized group,” “refusal to communicate, at the request of the authorized authorities, the information or documents required to carry out and operate the interceptions authorized by law,” “complicity in the organized gang distribution of images of minors of a child pornographic nature, drug trafficking, organized gang fraud, criminal conspiracy to commit crimes or misdemeanors” and “laundering of crimes or misdemeanors in an organized gang.”
“he has been placed under judicial supervision, with the obligation to post a bond of €5 million, to report to the police twice a week, and to refrain from leaving France.”
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/08/29/telegram-ceo-pavel-durov-charged-but-released-under-judicial-supervision_6723047_7.html
So, according to Le Monde, he is no longer under arrest but has been placed under formal investigation. I guess he has now been charged, the next step after arrest.
I hate to go all “Lapsed Agnostic” on you and be an insufferable pedant but it’s “Ne vous inquiétez pas mes amis”, no acute accent on the second ‘e’ and a ‘z’ after it because you’re referring to more than one ami. Pay attention in your French lessons in future, Reflux Minor, or it’s six of the best and detention for you.
And you’re approximately 230 years too late to organise a march on the Bastille, it was demolished at the start of the French Revolution.
Oh, and it’s:
Aux armes, citoyens
Formez vos bataillons
Marchons, marchons
Qu’un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons.
You’ll have to excuse me, I’ve got this irresistible urge to guillotine an aristo.
Frank
I acknowledge your disappointment at my egregious abuse of French syntax and spelling.
Not the most important point that you could have made, though.
Durov is not under arrest and €5 million is nothing to a billionaire.
While in Russia, Putin’s enemies are murdered by the regime.
Care to respond to that?
When did you have the sense of humour by-pass then, Reflux old boy? It was obviously a resounding success. Life really isn’t meant to be taken that seriously you know.
And as for responding to your points, I’ll respond to some of yours when you condescend to reply to some of the points I’ve put to you in the past which have been met with a deafening metaphorical silence on your part.
Over to you.
Free speech is being curtailed everywhere. Prisoners with serious convictions are being let out early to make space for riot convictions and Just Stop Oil protesters, some who were arrested and charged before they even did anything.
All that whilst massive rainfall around the world is devastating northern Thailand, Bangladesh, Japan, and more.
Our judiciary is as unhinged as the red Tories of Starmer.
Durov is being charged with unspecified misdemeanors on behalf of ??? persons unknown to stop free speech.
Macron is not even in Government; he is a US/Zionist puppet and rules as he sees fit, just as Scholz does in guilt-ridden Germany.
They are running out of tricks and soon the public/ all classes wake up and smell the Horlix.
The ministry of truth has become reality. Brace yourselves and get fit.
As with Assange and many others, TPTB are now trying to introduce sexual charges against Durov.
“The Telegram boss has reportedly been accused of violence against his six-year-old son”
https://www.rt.com/news/603224-pavel-durov-child-abuse/
As with color revolutions these smear tactics follow a well defined process. As soon as the victim breaks and does as they’re told all charges will disappear. So transparent, so corrupt.
Stevie Boy, more details about this appeared in today’s gossip.
So, there is a woman Irina Bolgar, Google gives a link to her Instagram, where she describes herself “A lawyer. Yogi. Art lover. Supporting Human rights and Feminism. Based in Switzerland Mother of dragons Leia Durova, Daniel Durov, … ” (here the Google snippet end and I have no access to Insta at the moment)
https://www.instagram.com/missbolgar/
Autumn 2022 Durov wanted her to move to the UAE with the children. She refused, and he stopped providing her with financial support. Bolgar complained that this significantly reduced the family’s standard of living. “When we first flew in economy class, the children (who had previously only travelled on private jets) asked, ‘Why do other people are here?'”. (heartbreaking!)
Before that, Durov paid for all expenses on the children, including education. Also, Bolgar could use the funds on her credit card at her own discretion, with a limit of €150,000 per month. When Bolgar refused to move to the UAE, he stopped supporting her financially. She and her children live on the money she earns in a Swiss consulting company, her salary is 8,000 Swiss francs ($9500) a month.
In 2023, she filed a criminal lawsuit against Durov in Switzerland. The lawsuit alleged that Durov had physically abused one of their children (if I were an evil woman trying to squeeze money out of a billionaire, i would choose the youngest son, since it’s unlikely that he can tell anything on his own that might reveal the deception). The Tribunal for the Protection of Children and Adults initiated an investigation conducted by the Geneva guardianship authorities, which resulted in Pavel Durov being deprived of custody of all three children. Irina Bolgar also demanded $150,000 from the businessman as alimony.
—
Durov said that he was a sperm donor and has about 100 children in 12 countries. He intends to reveal his genetic code so that his children could find each other if they wish.
Nevermind
“Macron is not even in Government; he is a US/Zionist puppet and rules as he sees fit, ”
He is the democratically elected (unlike Putin) President of the French Republic.
He has appointed a(n) acting PM and Government perfectly correctly.
Was it Belgium that took 2 years to form a government a few years ago?
There seems to be a desire for Apocalypse Now among some posters here.
It rarely works out well.
JK, Apocalypse Now was a great movie. Back in the 70s, movie directors, even in America, could afford to portray war and its multiple crimes and get away with it. Such a film would certainly be difficult to produce today.
“The end is nigh” is clearly a favorite meme amongst conspiracy theorists. There’s a vast audience for such brainwashing. Trying to contradict it is just a waste of time.
Regarding Macron, I suppose he wouldn’t like being compared to Putin. But as our host mentioned earlier, let’s not twist the whole narrative to end up attacking the Russian leader.
Regarding Pavel Durov, or Paul du Rove as his French passport names him, the amusing factor in his ‘conditional release’ is that the magistrates didn’t consider him a flight risk. Reporting twice weekly at a police station, when you have your own jet waiting? Not a problem. So let’s not jump to conclusions in this very intriguing case. For fear that the Durov abuse of law might become the French equivalent to the Skripal poisoning in the UK. Things are not always exactly what they look like.
Wilshire
Completely agree that Durov cannot be seen as a flight risk and that the whole business is fishy, as he himself is imo.
I expect that he has been playing each side against the other.
Rarely ends well.
“He is the democratically elected”
JK redux.
Yes just like Maduro in Venezuela – whom the US is desperate to overthrow.
RoS
I seem to recall that the detailed local election results went missing in Maduro’s Democratic Venezuela.
Happily the Supreme Court (headed by a party member) has confirmed that isn’t a problem…
JK redux.
Ha, ha – Comedy Gold – you’re not Guiado in disguise are you?
It was US POTUS Jimmy Carter who declared that Venezuelan elections are the best in the world.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/venezuela-while-us-politicians-call-fraud-american-election-observers-endorse-results/288010/
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7272/
JK Redux
While Russian elections leave a lot to be desired, Putin is, or was, relatively popular – as established by independent Western polling organisations. Even today, despite the war, he’s probably got more support than your hero ‘comedian turned ace politician’, Zelensky. You’ve got to take into account many Russians remember their state under Western laughing stock/ puppet, Boris Yeltsin – how could they desire a return to that chaos?
Do you believe the West has genuinely open political systems and free choice? Look at the US : Trump vs Biden, now Trump vs the ‘anointed one’ Harris. Are these great intellects ,the best pair the US can produce? Do you think the US political system is a meritocratic, organic system, in which great minds rise to the top? Do you think anyone can become president in the US? Pre-Trump it was as pre-vetted and controlled as the CCP in China.
The same goes for the UK, Starmer is clearly some sort of dour, deceitful ,charisma-free establishment plant; as everyone is increasingly realising. France’s democracy is equally moribund. The only good democratic examples are among the Scandinavian countries and they are being increasing corrupted by the Anglosphere.
It is a requirement in UK media/BTL comments to include the terms ‘Putin/brutal dictator’ at least once per day. Over a period of time the average western citizen will thus come to believe that Putin was not elected into office, or – when this nonsense is contradicted – will claim the that the election must have been rigged.
99% of the NAFO folks and CM blog trolls, would be Putin’s biggest narrative enforcers and fanboys, if they lived in Russia.
Those that serve powerful elites in the West, would equally serve their equivalents, if born in the East.
Apologies, as perhaps events have overtaken this poem ?
Polio’s harvest
To be chewed on by children
Malnourished by starvation
Drinking the puddle’s poison
Gazing into the well of suffering
Reflecting the birds migrating
Listen to their cry
— Sickle moon
How come that not a single comment appeared for more than 24 hrs?
Is somebody interfering with this blog?
Just to say that since the sad demise of John Pilger and the recuperation of Julian Assange, the harassment of Richard Medhurst as well as other journalists in Australia, it is important to support what we have and value.
Craig needs support and I for one will carry on to support him.
Good luck to all you who are voicing your opposition to Zionism in all its ugly manifestations.
Jk reflux, who says he likes to use humour, has a funny idea of what being “under arrest” means when he writes “Durov is not under arrest and €5 million is nothing to a billionaire”.
As reported variously the Paris Prosecutor’s Office has confirmed (August 28) that he is being charged with the whole list of 12 offences described in the original indictment, which includes an interesting one,” failure to provide information necessary for legally permitted wiretapping”.
His legal position is that he is under “judicial supervision with the requirement to pay bail in the amount of five million euros, the obligation to report to the police station twice a week and a ban on leaving the territory of France”.
If that is not being “under arrest” I don’t know what being free means anymore.
Under arrest means just that, in police custody.
From the French arrêt, apologies for any misspellings…
Durov is not in police custody.
(I’m amused by the concern for this Russian billionaire’s welfare here and in his native country.)
French authorities have issued an arrest warrant for his bother, Nikolai.
Looking at the comments on Ars Technica, it’s sad how many in the US are so blinded by media-induced Russophobia; they can’t see how this could be a politicised test case, with the intention of setting a precedent establishing criminal responsibility for those providing ‘no knowledge’ privacy services like E2EE – using the current bête noire ‘Russians’.
The politicians are total hypocrites too; as the govt in the UK led a well-funded campaign against Meta’s roll-out of E2E while itself being embroiled in the scandal that was ‘Govt by WhatsApp’ – they were also accused of avoiding ministerial scrutiny by using self-deleting emails during the ‘sketchy as hell’ purchase of PPE during the pandemic. They scrapped the normal tendering process rules and ministerial friends and nerighbours literally got handed multi-million pound contracts, this despite the fact some had no previous experience of providing PPE at scale and much of the stuff they provided was unfit for purpose. A crazy, ‘get rich quick’ scandal, that no one has, thus far, been held accountable for,.
As Mick Jagger once said: you can’t always get what you want.
Come on down! Yes, all 7 billion people on Earth, beat a path to Britain. Plenty of room at the inn. CM says so!
Exactly. Let’s waste no time. All down the rabbit hole!
No so sure about 7 billion. But considering Pavel Durov alone has more than a hundred children (and who knows about his brother, who is the real genius in the family), this means quite a few pints of bitter.
Yes, no worry about accomodation. The zionist government plans to build 1.5 Million houses over five years. Simple calculations show that that actually means 34 houses an hour must be built for the five years.
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/08/29/1-5-million-homes-in-five-years-are-you-joking/
Complete and utter unachievable BS, yet they get away with saying it. Just like the net zero fantasies of the burger munching moron Miliband.
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/08/26/the-terrifying-scale-of-ed-milibands-green-industrialisation-is-coming-as-a-shock/
If you thought the Tories were bad, join me outside for a
fagcigarette and I’ll explain, oh no, wait …Meanwhile back in Keir Starmer’s Britain, prominent Palestine peace activist Sarah Wilkinson (@swilkinsonbc) has been arrested at her home for posting about Israeli war crimes on the internet.
I saw this. Is there anything specific she’s posted?
Because from what I’ve seen, she’s only posting similar content to that which the likes of Owen Jones is highlighting.
I suspect her arrest is intended to silence people like Owen Jones. Twelve police officers sent to the home of a middle-aged woman who has devoted her life to humanitarian causes and helping oppressed people.
There’s an article on non-crime-hate-incident (NCHI) laws the govt wants to bring in here : https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/08/28/the-dreadful-return-of-the-non-crime-hate-incident/
Quote : “What mattered was that someone, somewhere, had perceived another person’s legal speech or non-criminal behaviour as being motivated by hate.”
Ridiculously subjective stuff.
This is also the problem with them trying to put misogyny on a par with terrorism. Claims someone is motivated by a hatred of all women, could lead to absurdly disproportionate sentences for relatively trivial online arguments.
That’s the problem with capitalism: you always end up short of prison places.
David Warriston
“That’s the problem with capitalism: you always end up short of prison places.”
ha-ha!
H.D. Thoreau would be laughing in his grave.
Cannot imagine she has posted anything different to what ‘we’re’ posting here. Our time will come.
And, presumably the Gestapo confiscated all her IT devices. Which in this day and age means it is very difficult to access money and pay bills.
I’m old enough to remember the early internet, circa mid-90s -2000, and online game chat. You’d quickly develop a very thick skin exposed to that. The fact it was like the wild West and unregulated, obviously had its downsides, but on balance, even that is preferable to the kind of internet UK politicians are trying to bring about now. “The safest place in the world to go online”, they boast about the Online Safety Act, I think N.Korea, Iran and China have already got gold ,silver and bronze sewn up on that score.
The worst thing that happened to the internet, imho, was when woke ‘sheltered life'(uni to politics) career politicians joined social media platforms expecting to never be offended, or be challenged in any way. They class any questioning, about, say, for instance. their stance on Gaza, as being subjected to abusive online behaviour.
We’ve got a bunch of out-of-touch, upper middle-class a*******s carrying around a saviour complex and with it a determination to Disneyfy the Internet whether citizens want it or not.
Reza
I’ve just looked through her X/twitter posts and there are lots of “graphic content” warnings on the videos she’s posted – I didn’t open them as I’ve seen enough suffering from Gaza to know it’s dreadful and how bad the injuries are. But I can’t see anything wrong in the comments she’s made accompanying the videos. Is it actually X/twitter posts related or something else?