I have a confession to make.
When a journalist writes this it generally means they will proceed to reveal something they hope will actually show them in a good light or justified in some way. But I have a real confession to make, of something I did that was wrong.
Somewhere in the UK, among the papers of a dead loved one which nobody has the heart to throw out, in cardboard boxes in dusty attics or deep in the filing cabinets of Jeremy Corbyn, exist still a few copies of thousands of letters bearing my authentic signature.
These letters, on expensive paper with an impressive Foreign and Commonwealth Office crested header, state that the British Government will not deal with the African National Congress because it is a terrorist organisation.
Many of them go on to state that Nelson Mandela is a terrorist who was rightly convicted of terrorism by a South African court after a free and fair trial.
I really did write those thousands of letters, not just sign them. I did not believe a single word of it, and was only “doing my job” as a civil servant, but in a sense that makes it worse.
So I know how many government functionaries currently feel in carrying out the government’s policy of supporting and indeed actively participating in genocide.
When I joined the FCO, in my “fast stream” intake of 22 I was one of only two who was not public school and the only one who was not Oxbridge. I also had the unusual background of being a member of CND, Friends of Palestine and various other activist groups.
I could not be excluded because in the several days and stages of public examinations I had (tied with 2 others) outperformed everybody else of the 80,000 people who had entered the Civil Service administrative exams (it was 1984 with 3.5 million unemployed).
But the security services were not happy, and my “positive vetting” was delayed. This is an extremely exhaustive process (nowadays direct vetting) for those with the highest security clearance. An MOD officer, usually retired military, is assigned to investigate everything about you for months, including interviewing many who know you.
So while I joined the FCO in September 1984, for five months I was not given a job but rather put on full time French language training together with three other misfits (one of whom I think was being given extra investigation because his uncle was Roger Hollis).
In the end my positive vetting was left with a query, and I was pulled in to see the Head of Personnel Department. They said that they had decided to grant my vetting certificate, but that I was going to be placed on the South Africa (Political) desk as a direct test of whether it was possible for me to put my politics aside and function as a civil servant.
So I did. You tell yourself many things to get by, chiefly that the UK is a democracy and ministers are elected by voters to determine policy; whereas you as a civil servant are merely carrying through the wishes of the voters.
Thatcher was Prime Minister and she simply was a straightforward supporter of apartheid. This is much denied but I am an eye witness. Geoffrey Howe was Foreign Minister and it was never easy to determine what he thought about anything. Junior ministers running day to day policy were Lynda Chalker and Malcolm Rifkind, who were both viscerally anti-apartheid.
But the line that Mandela was a terrorist and the ANC a terrorist organisation was dictated by Thatcher and absolutely insisted upon.
It is difficult now to explain the intensity of feeling in the UK and the strength of the anti-apartheid campaign. Scores of letters would arrive every day, many from MPs, and – this bit is hard to believe now – in those days every letter would be answered point by point, not with a generic reply.
I was writing those replies by hand, and then giving them to the secretaries to type up. In 1985 the Department got its first word processor and I was able to draft forty template paragraphs and select from those for the replies. But out those replies went from Craig Murray, stating that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, thousands of them.
I was very actively involved in the Whitehall battle to change the policy, but that is a different story which I have in part explained before.
But this is an extremely important thought that I want you all to ponder.
In 1985, the Terrorism Act 2000 was still 15 years away. There was no such thing as a proscribed organisation under the Terrorism Act.
Under today’s legislation, every single one of those people writing in support of the African National Congress or out campaigning for the release of Nelson Mandela would have been liable for arrest under Section 12 1 (a) of the Terrorism Act.
That is the danger of allowing the state to dictate whom you must consider a terrorist and punishing those who disagree with the state.
In 1985 the official position of the British state was that the ANC were terrorists and apartheid South Africa were the good guys.
In 2024 the official position of the British state is that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorists and apartheid Israel are the good guys.
The state can be wrong.
It is therefore not an irony that Starmer and Cooper banned Nelson Mandela’s grandson from entering the UK as a “terrorist sympathiser” because of his support for Palestine. In this as so much else, Starmer is a follower of Thatcher.
The difference forty years later is that the state is now persecuting British citizens and locking them up for daring to say that the state can be wrong.
The ANC example explains why it is essential we do not give way to this pressure.
Let us face facts. Like most resistance units against colonialism, the ANC were indeed forced by the exigencies of asymmetric warfare into actions that were careless of, or even targeted the lives of, colonial settler civilians.
That did not put them on the wrong side of history. Apartheid South Africa was wrong just as Apartheid Israel is wrong. Occupied people have, in international law, the right of armed resistance. Within that context of lawful struggle, individuals remain accountable for individual war crimes.
The Terrorism Act, abused by the Israel lobby to make it illegal to support Israel’s opponents, is fundamentally bad legislation. It literally provides for up to 14 years in jail if you “express an opinion” in favour of a proscribed organisation.
40 years ago it would have been used against the large majority of the population who “expressed an opinion” in favour of the ANC, officially viewed as a terrorist organisation.
The sickening ratcheting up of pressure on Palestine supporters by super Zionist Keir Starmer continued yesterday with a 6am raid on highly distinguished journalist Asa Winstanley. All his electronics and journalistic materials were seized.
Today 10 UK police launched a pre-dawn raid on the home of Asa Winstanley, one of Britain’s leading and most celebrated investigative journalists.
All this devices, so all his journalistic materials, were seized and are now with the authorities.
He was not charged with a crime. pic.twitter.com/bT9fpnE8rU
— Matt Kennard (@kennardmatt) October 17, 2024
Panicked Zionist “elites” who run western states are lashing out in fear at their opponents. As their popular support evaporates in the face of clear evidence of appalling Israeli atrocities, they are resorting to the methods of fascism.
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Some good news:
Drone hits Netanyahu’s home as Hezbollah rockets target northern Israel
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/19/drone-hits-netanyahus-home-as-hezbollah-rockets-target-northern-israel
Israel could target and kill every palestinian/lebanese leader and there is no response, criticism etc by the west but if palestinians/lebanese would succeed in killing lets say Netanyahu, oh, then the terrorist-label would suddenly pop up in the western world.
But it would certainly not be terrorism since it is not terrorism to kill the responsible man for the occupation/genocide. People under occupaption have full right to use force against the occupier. It is however terrorism to raze, destroy the whole of Gaza killing some 50000 for political gains. That is the definition of terrorism.
There’s a news blackout in Israel now about the drone strike on Netanyahu’s house. Some initial reports said he was injured. For all we know, he may be dead.
I hope he is dead!
Golly the blokes you beat in the exams must have been duds. Terrorism is a tactic. If Mandela used the tactic he was a terrorist. Just as the American hero John Brown was a terrorist. If Mandela didn’t then he wasn’t.
You may think the abolition of slavery in the US was a noble cause – I certainly do. But Brown’s tactics were undeniably terrorist. The distinction between a tactic and a cause is elementary. The cliched comparison of a freedom fighter and a terrorist is plain stupid – a category error. A freedom fighter is defined by his cause or purported cause, a terrorist by his tactics. You can be both, or one or the other, or neither.
The only slight problem is one of identification. The last bunch of terrorists to have the balls to call themselves terrorists were the Zionist terror gangs in Palestine in the 1940s. But it’s not much of a problem; if you don’t think the chap who killed all those youngsters at the arena in Manchester was a terrorist you owe us an explanation of why not. There’s no use chattering about his cause – it’s his tactics that are under debate.
If bombing civilian youngsters at an arena counts as terrorism, shouldn’t dropping bombs on cities also count?
I was a sergeant/linguist for the US Air Force in Berlin at a time when the US Air Force was dropping bombs on cities in Vietnam. I now ask myself whether I was not assisting terrorism.
Re. cities. Yes. This is why strategic nuclear weapons are intrinsically terrorist. They are made for destroying cities.
The West German extraparliamentary left opposition (in an epoch when there was a grand coalition in parliament, i.e. no real parliamentary opposition) got this absolutely right, putting US and Soviet nuclear weapons on a par with Auschwitz – preparing for the cold, industrial-scale murder of literally millions of people.
The frightening thing is that we are now a long time from the epoch when many people understood this and wanted to do something to stop it.
I agree Brian and would say that the Israeli bombing of civilians in Palestine and Lebanon, are terrorist acts.
“Terrorism is a tactic. If Mandela used the tactic he was a terrorist.”
If it’s a tactic, why are you trolling it into an identity?
Am I a laundryman when I put my clothes in the washing machine?#
Nonetheless you are right that few in recent generations have called their own groups “terrorist”, as the Irgun and Stern gangsters did. Not so much a matter of possessing testicles. Just a matter of “we want an image of being just as ruthless and murderous as we are.”
Brian Red
Am I a laundryman when I put my clothes in the washing machine?#
Good point, I am so fed up with the braindead knee-jerk terrorist label, like palestinians are framed as terrorist… for the sake of being terrorists. As you say, like terrorism is their very identity and how they always should be presented and framed as. It is absurd when you think about it.
“A freedom fighter is defined by his cause or purported cause, a terrorist by his tactics.”
A Freedom Fighter is both a fighter, and someone whose cause is Freedom. So that is both a tactic – fighting – and a cause. They don’t have to be a fighter. They could be a Freedom Wisher, or a Freedom Writer. All three have the same cause. So what defines a Freedom Fighter is not the cause, but the COMBINATION of cause and tactic. Which means that you could be a Freedom Terrorist by your definition.
Most groups labelled as Terrorist have a cause. Why is this particular tactic prioritised over their cause? That’s a political choice. So, ANC were Freedom Terrorists, which meant they could be labelled either as Freedom Fighters (as terrorism usually requires some fighting) or as Terrorists, depending on your bias. It’s a subjective choice. Ditto the IRA, or ETA, or Tamil Tigers, or Mau Mau, or Bolsheviks, or American Revolutionaries. Or Suffragettes. Or potentially, Abolitionists. Any cause which led to actions that provoked conflict and distress and fear could be said to be something Terrorist by your definition. Which means, most political influential or significant causes in history.
No doubt you’d argue that the group had to deliberately choose a terror-inducing approach. Which suggests that Terrorism is a suite of actions chosen with a specific intention (i.e. a strategy). Any violent action will frighten people. But only if it is chosen with that intention is it Terrorism. Which potentially brings most of the violent actions of governments into the frame.
Hamas are a group whose cause is the establishment of a state for the Palestinians. This could be labelled as ‘Freedom’. Hezbollah, on the other hand, are after political power for their community, and to protect them from the Israelis. So, that is more difficult to categorise. Perhaps “Self-defence and Influence Terrorists”.
Israel, however, is after exclusive occupancy of the whole of ancient Palestine, regardless of the presence of anyone else. Which makes ithe IDF “Ethnic cleansing and Apartheid imposing Terrorists”. Although, Genocide Terrorist is a neater, and more honest label. But perhaps you would argue that genocide is a tactic too?
‘Terrorism’ is a descriptive term for a strategy. But it isn’t a description that has much explanatory value. If I fight, it tells you nothing about WHY, nor about what the effect of that fighting might be. But if I am a Freedom Fighter, you at least know why. A terrorist? We are left knowing nothing about why this group exists, nor what it wants. It might have a cause that we would support. It might legitimately represent a right to resist violently. By defining a group by the impact of its actions, we apply a different standard from that we apply to (friendly) states, or their agents. There, we judge them on the why, not the what. Even though the what is little different, and may be a lot worse, than that of the ‘terrorist’. There is no logic and no coherence to it. It’s just a way of delegitimising and outlawing a cause without referring to the cause itself. It’s a sleight of hand by the powerful to manipulate the rest of us. And to categorise them into, in effect, ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’. It really is that childish.
This discussion thread would make for a decent thesis.
Respect! We need more postings of this kind. Thank you, Zoltan Jorovic
” And to categorise them into, in effect, ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’. It really is that childish.”
Not really childish. History tells us that people, on the whole like dividing the rest of the human race into goodies and baddies and many, if not most, like this process to be done for them, saving them from much anxious thought to work out who is who. The only childish thing is the choice of words, but it’s the same concept as “friends” and “enemies” or any other division of humanity into an in-group and an out-group.
Which also raises the question – what’s happened to all those big names in the music business that campaigned against apartheid and for human rights? You couldn’t read a newspaper or watch TV in the 1980s without one of them denouncing ‘Thatcher’ or the Botha government. They have been nearly entirely silent about the Gaza atrocities. The only assumption can be that all that right-on politics was a PR stunt to begin with. Roger Waters is, of course, the very honourable exception – a man of great courage and integrity.
I don’t think South africa had much influence within the music industry. Traditionally, jewish figures have been prominent in that sphere. Piper and tune logic would explain the silence.
That’s a very good question. Part of the answer may be the historical antagonism between the West and the Islamic world, and the fact that the majority of Arabs and hence Palestinians are Muslims. That prejudice is used effectively by the Zionist lobby. In Africa colonial racism, while a grim reality, wasn’t as deep-rooted as anti-Islamic prejudice historically.
Ilan Pappé’s book Lobbying for Zionism on Both Sides of the Atlantic may also provide part of the answer – the effectiveness of the Zionist lobby to the present day (so that even in the Labour conference, thanks to politicians who are Friends (=Slaves) of Israel being in the pockets of the Zionist lobby, party managers forbade the use of dirty words like ‘apartheid’ and ‘genocide’ at their annual conference, just as the Russian government won’t allow citizens to speak of the ‘war’ it launched against Ukraine. The authoritarian tendencies of the Soviet Union are thus present in Starmer’s Labour Party just as in Russia, though here the authorities have only relatively recently begun restricting freedom of speech and the press and leaning on journalists, as they did in apartheid South Africa and the Soviet Union.
Taylor Swift has spoken out and she is a massively influential role model for young women. She has had a lot of flack for speaking out
Sir,
Thank you for clarifying your own, and timely historical contradictions. You continue to earn small amounts of support, sent your way…
(and thank you for “your way”)…
An excellent piece as always. As regards Sinwar my mind is simply struck by the question: What was he trying to achieve in breaking out via gliders, motorbikes, bulldozers, and other civilian vehicles and committing an astoundingly technically perfect attack against a music festival, military barracks, and kibbutz, where Israeli civilians were strafed with machine guns by the hundreds and more than a dozen women kidnapped and held hostage (along with hundreds of men, civilian and not)? After which successfully returning to Gaza seemingly unmolested, shortly subsequent to which the wholesale bombardment of Gaza begins. I say this in light of the fact that I consider the Israeli leadership, particularly Netanyahu, an outright mafioso element unfettered/unrestrained by US or any other power in his and his junta’s ability for both vengeance and Machiavellian justification for populational decimation. Knowing all this with hindsight, as I suppose Sinwar did, what was the function of Oct 7 (perhaps an event that Israel itself anticipated and planned for) other than to show the world what Israel and the West were willfully and cognizantly fully capable not simply of saying (e.g. use of nuclear weapons against Gaza), but of doing to people who are not white and not of the West? Was that Sinwar’s thinking, or did he rather commit a gross miscalculation in carrying out Oct 7?
“astoundingly technically perfect attack”
You think there may have been shades of the Reichstag Fire? (No disrespect intended to Marinus van der Lubbe.) There may well have been. The terrorist state’s defences seem to have been somewhat down.
“did he rather commit a gross miscalculation in carrying out Oct 7?”
Did you follow the red heifer scare? That tied directly to what was called the Al Aqsa Flood operation. That’s what Hamas said was the motivation for the timing. They thought the Israelis were going to attack Al Aqsa.
I am surprised no red heifer has yet been sacrificed. This remains a card up the Zionists’ sleeve.
I don’t believe for a single moment in a great division between Netanyahu on one side and Ben Gvir and Smotrich on the other. That’s all theatre.
Bearing in mind that the festival goers bought their tickets without knowing where the event was going to be held, and were only given the location details the day before, then, if the daring raid was known about before it happened, were the young people knowingly put in danger? The annihilation of everyone on the ground by the flame throwing tanks and helicopter gunships took out every vehicle which had not already crossed back into Gaza, including IDF and Hamas checkpoints and fleeing festival goers. So many vehicles and occupants were wiped out in response to the call from the barracks for back up.
That was my initial thought in October last year: that the festival goers were regarded as undesirable elements within Israeli society and therefore expendable. The festival was re-sited close to the border and extended. Whereas the original aim of Hamas was to grab militants and kibbutzniks as hostages to trade for prisoners held by Israel; they found themselves with this unexpected group on their hands. It now seems clear that the warmongers of Tel Aviv were indeed well aware of the proposed incursion, but the plan came from Gaza rather than from leaders elsewhere who might have been more open to Israeli scheming.
..and then there were those evil 18th century American terrorists who formed their own army (the “Continental Army”) – not militia or terrorist organisation you understand – and wickedly defeated and expelled their righteous British colonialist rulers aka occupiers. The commander of that anti-British terrorist militia – I mean liberation army/freedom fighters – was an evil terrorist or insurgent or insurrectionist called George Washington..
Don’t forget those nasty catholic crusader, terrorist armies who went overseas to liberate the holy land from those nasty arabs. Some things don’t change …
It is a sobering thought that those of us who sang “Free Nelson Mandela” and demonstrated in his support, and often with banners mentioning the ANC back in the 80’s would have been arrested, tried and imprisoned had the Terrorism Act been on the statute at the time. I remeber snorting with derision at the argument that Mandela was a Terrorist and that somehow this meant that Apartheid was OK. Presumably, the modern argument would be that it was a form of self-defence by a minority that feared for its life.
That said, while South African Apartehid was vile, they were open about it, and didn’t try to hide their racism, or cry victim when people pointed out their misdemeanours. We didn’t get smeared as Anti-Boers or Self-hating Whites. There was a lot of stuff about how the Blacks were ‘tribal’ and fought amongst themselves, and couldn’t be trusted to run a country competently – all very reminiscent of the sort of thing we hear about Sunni and Shia and Arabs in general. Then it was open racism and the supporters of White rule never pretended they didn’t think that the white race was ‘superior’. Now the policy is to lavishly smear anyone who criticises Israel, and use that to cover the deep-seated racism that drives the whole Zionist project.
The Terrorism Act was a clever way of using concern about the atrocities that had been committed by various groups as a political tool to control protest. It has allowed the State to dictate which groups are beyond the pale. Sadly Asa is not the first journalist to be stamped on in this way. The apparent concern the Met take in the content of some social media posts contrasts with the interest they have in actual physical crime. The resources they must waste on these fishing expeditions suggest that suppressing dissent is a much higher priority than protecting the public from crime. Deeply depressing.
Speaking of which, it is telling how similar these situations are, it is the same chants, protests in the street, same western nations that block condemnations, sanctions against the apartheid-regime of today:
1986:U.S. and Britain block U.N. sanctions against South Africa
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/06/23/US-and-Britain-block-UN-sanctions-against-South-Africa/8848519883200/
Hilarious that west that sanctions everything, everyone always come up with reasons not to put sanctions on Israel.
It was also the same type of harassment against protest-leaders:
Hain faced prosecution
It may seem like ancient history now, but in the UK of 1970 the movement against Apartheid South Africa was only just starting. And documents disclosed today reveal that the government considered prosecuting the movement’s leader – the now Labour minister Peter Hain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/uk_confidential/1095004.stm
“Presumably, the modern argument would be that it was a form of self-defence by a minority that feared for its life.”
It would be that opposition to white supremacy in South Africa (“apartheid”) can in principle be genuine, but mostly it’s a cover for anti-whiteism, for tired “tropes” about white people running the show behind the scenes, for singling out whites for special abuse while other groups doing the same or worse aren’t criticised, for the age-old blood libel about so-called “lynchings”, for discredited terrorist propaganda stories about the “sjambok” (which really means “ice lolly” in Afrikaans) and the “pencil test” (a policy of giving black children free pencils), with the true agenda being the extermination of all white people, as can be verified in paragraph 7.3.2.1 of the terrorist African National Congress’s manifesto if you hold it up to the light at the right angle, and that meanwhile any comparison with any other repressive regime of the past is an obvious marker for anti-whiteism.
Always bearing in mind that white people who oppose white supremacy are
race traitorswicked anti-whiteists like ~Gilad ~Atzmon.Yes – singling out is bad, and comparison is bad too. What’s a genuine critic of white supremacy who doesn’t want to exterminate all white people supposed to do? Both singling out and comparison are bad according to the internationally accepted recognition as signed by 125 parliaments.
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”
“Apartheid” was certainly white supremacism, but it didn’t call itself white supremacy when the cameras were rolling. Instead they gave it a “separate but equal” kinda gloss. This is apparent in the very word “apartheid”. In Palestine the analogue was “binationalism”. “Binationalism” is absolute racist c*ck, and if applied in Britain would amount to having black towns and white towns.
The only humanitarian position to have on Palestine is to favour a single secular state, just as it was in South Africa – and everywhere. The main organisations advocating this are the PFLP, DFLP, and PCP.
To label someone a terrorist, you also have to accuse them of atrocities against civilians. So Netanyahu repeated the old story that nobody has provided any evidence for in the year since 7 October:
“Well two days ago we took out Yahya Sinwar – the terrorist mastermind whose goons beheaded our men, raped our women, burnt babies alive – we took him out.”
Bibi knows his audience, he is speaking to morons using Hollywood type language. Go figure, the fascists will be happy.
Yes. Many Israelis, because of the support they can rely on from their gangster network, believe themselves to be highly intelligent. But the fact that Netanyahu addresses them in this way shows that many of them are as thick as pigshit, as of course extreme racists usually are.
Strange that Benny doesn’t mention 40 beheaded babies – as in ‘whose goons… beheaded 40 babies – or even beheaded babies – as in ‘whose goons… beheaded babies’. I wonder why not?!!
Brilliant, inciteful and enlightening piece Craig.
Nobody really takes this seriously anymore, on this blog or elsewhere. It’s an expired meme by now…
Meanwhile, the more people talk about alleged attacks on Netanyahu, the better for him. Makes him some hero who survived.
It would be wiser to remain silent for the moment. Just saying.
The attack on Netanyahu’s home does not make either him or his regime look good. It damages Israel’s image of invincibility.
For decades, whenever any enemies of Israel launched an attack, the IDF would crush them immediately, simply by brute force against the Palestinian population. People could criticise that behaviour but they just had to put up with it, because Israel does what it wants and the western powers support it.
Now Hezbollah has shown that it can penetrate deep behind Israel’s defences by using sophisticated technology cannot be un-invented and cannot be destroyed. It’s the beginning of the end of Israeli invincibility, but it will take a long time to sink in because so many Zionists are deluded, mainly because of their racism.
Afterthought: Sinwar’s ‘goons’ have absolutely nothing on Benny’s goons! Who quite likely killed the majority of civilians on October 7th.
That is a very good point. The Hannibal directive was probably responsible for the majority of deaths on 7 October. The stories of atrocities by Hamas against babies or women were likely a pack of lies by Israel. Israel has now become like the Canaanites who were willing to sacrifice their children to Molech ( = the interests of the state). In the Old Testament, the punishment for such a sin was to have the whole community in the holy land killed or driven out by invaders, and Israelites weren’t exempt. Therefore, we should not suppose that the modern State of Israel will be either. It could be destroyed through Providence in its turn, though a transformation from apartheid to full democracy could avoid disaster, as in South Africa.
Do we believe that about the Canaanites? Or is it more of the same “40 beheaded babies” propaganda?
Thing is, so many Zionists like to declare that “Jewish people have been present in the land of Israel for millennia” and at school you only learn about who was in “the promised land” before them in the context of Moses marching the Israelites around Canaan three times before God magically smote the city’s defences and the Canaanites perished. And that’s all that we learn about the Canaanites. We don’t even learn about how they likely organised their city in a regular grid pattern with water distribution and sanitation systems, nor do we learn about the Phoenicians, Mesopotamians, Babylonians (except that they held Jews in captivity, from where the term Yahweh likely originated), or Philistines…
Of course, I mean Jericho, not Canaan
Like Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff for Colin Powell, said early on in the genocide: Never trust the israelis, they lie constantly.
Israeli’s are Liars! – Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to General Colin Powell
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ8iJ4ZZkw0
So for the first fourteen years of their existence the military wing of Hamas were not regarded as a terrorist organisation by the British establishment. Hmm, interesting. So I wonder what led the PTB to designate them as such in 2001. I think I know the answer to THAT one!
And for the first thirty-four years of it’s existence the political wing of Hamas wasn’t regarded as a terrorist organisation. Now if I was a conspiracy theorist I might conclude that the reason they WERE suddenly proscribed as a terrorist organisation (2.5 years before October 7th) is because Benny notified them that The Plan has been set in motion, or was shortly going to be…. so could you please designate the political wing terrorists as well. Kind regards.
Was just wondering when the US proscribed Hamas a terrorist organisation:
Explainer: How Hamas Ended Up on US List of Terrorist Groups
https://www.voanews.com/a/explainer-how-hamas-ended-up-on-us-list-of-terrorist-groups/7478227.html
Just occured to me to check out when Israel itself proscribed Hamas a terrorist group – or when they proscribed the military wing as such, and then the political wing, or if they proscribed both entities at the same time – and assumed it would be mentioned in the wikipedia entry for Hamas, but in the section sub-headed ‘Terrorist designation’ (about half-way down a very long entry) it says the following:
The United States designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation in 1995, as did Canada in November 2002,[382] and the United Kingdom in November 2021.[60] In May 2021, the Organization of American States designated Hamas as a terrorist organization.[383] The European Union so designated Hamas’s military wing in 2001 and, under US pressure,[384] designated Hamas in 2003.[385] Hamas challenged this decision,[386] which was upheld by the European Court of Justice in July 2017.[387] Japan[388] and New Zealand[389] have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization.[390] The organization is banned in Jordan.[391] In late February 2024, New Zealand re-designated the entire Hamas organization as a terror entity.[392] In September 2024, Switzerland approved a draft law on to ban the group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
NB In the entry the political wing is referred to as just ‘Hamas’.
Oops, I meant to include this bit as well:
According to Tobias Buck, Hamas is “listed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and the EU, but few dare to treat it that way now” and in the Arab and Muslim world it has lost its pariah status and its emissaries are welcomed in capitals of Islamic countries.
What is Hamas supposed to have done that’s “terrorist”? Did any of the slurpy but doubtless very serious-faced designators say?
We could ask the same question about Hezbollah.
Incidentally, can someone here explain what the civilian government structure is in Gaza? I suspect it’s probably a coalition that includes Hamas and other groups, but that’s only a guess.
Certainly that’s the position with the military structure, as even the pro-Zionist Wikipedia admits:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Joint_Operations_Room
Is there a list of the cabinet ministers somewhere and which parties they belong to? You would have thought that if it’s open information for the military, it’d be open for the civilian side too.
Hamas is of course an Islamic organisation, but that is not true of the Palestinian Joint Operations Room. The PFLP, which is represented on the PJOR, is secular. It may well not be true of what the Israel-slurpy MSM calls “the Hamas-run government” either. Now wouldn’t that be interesting.
“Wing” is a horrible word and reminds me of British state propaganda against the IRA, with Sinn Fein routinely called “the political wing of the IRA” and so on. Irish republicans tried to respond by calling the British parliament “the parliamentary wing of the British army”, but that didn’t catch on.
Allan Howard.
It seems simple to me. Fatah led by Arafat were open to a Two State Solution. For the Zionist solution he had to go.
In order to do that Hamas had to kill him/Fatah and thereby kill the Two State Solution. It happened and led (eventually) to October the 7th 2023.
You can’t have a war unless the other side wants one. You have to manufacture one.
The CIA know all about this method.
@Mark – You are missing out many years of Palestinian history following the Oslo agreement of 1993. Nobody thinks Hamas killed Arafat. The Israelis killed him. As for Fatah, nobody has killed it. It is still alive under Quisling-face Abbas. Those who remind us that Israel once armed Hamas should remember that there have been many years of “security cooperation” between Fatah and Israel on the West Bank. Respect is due to many in the Tanzim. Only an idiot or scumbag would want there to be civil war among Palestinians. But respect to Abbas and those around him, no. Two million Palestinians have been terrorised out of their homes. He is supposed to be the leader of the Palestinians and he hasn’t declared war, or even stopped cooperating with the enemy. He is a disgrace.
The reason why Hamas became so popular is because most of the leadership of Fatah (with the honourable exception of Arafat) were lining their pockets from cement deals for the separation wall. (That’s not a joke.) It could also be mentioned that a big feature of the “Jericho and Gaza first” plan was a casino. This tells you what kind of Palestinian leaders backed the Oslo agreement.
I am sure George Habash can be criticised for some things, but objectively one has to recognise that in rejecting the Oslo accords he was right, all the way.
I don’t know whether anyone else here is fond of the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine). But for the record, it is not designated as “terrorist” by the British state. It is lawful to display its symbol in Britain and to say its militants are good lads and lasses.
This is unlike the PFLP-GC (PFLP – General Command).
The British state’s list of proscribed organisations is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations–2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version
If anyone wants an absolutely kickass Palestinian revolutionary song, try the PFLP anthem: The Red Banner is Raised (YouTube, 5m 4s). It knocks the Marseillaise (and probably, I have to admit, also the Internationale) into a cocked hat.
(Maybe download and save this before Google ban it.)
The song is stirring stuff, even without understanding the words. I wonder if it’s played as background music in Arabic restaurants :).
The page had a link to a good song by Julia Boutros for Palestine. The link mysteriously disappeared when I went back to the PFLP song, so here’s the link to Julia’s song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNfWELiWi_U
Brian Red
From memory Arafat was poisoned. Could have been anyone (wink) and the Multi millionaire Abbas didn’t get where is today without doing favours for Israel and The West.
Whomver killed him (maybe one of his own side – money talks) the idea was to install/allow a more hot-headed leadership of Gaza. Just to have some people to mow the lawn with.
All changing before our very eyes though the effects of which will make Hamas the least of Netanyahu’s and the US’s problems. Day by day The West is creeping towards much more dangerous adversaries. And massive inflation – as I say money talks.
As usual we shall see – it is not going to be pleasant.
As I recall Ilan Pappé said in an interview on YouTube that the total ethnic cleansing of Palestine was the dream of some of the right-wing lunatics in Netanyahu’s government, and but for the prospect of American sanctions (reluctant as they are so far) we could see further attempted genocide.
However Israel’s attempts to destroy Palestinian resistance movements by killing their leaders haven’t worked. Evidently they have succession plans and a devolved structure that makes this impossible. Therefore Hamas and Hezbollah may well make Gaza and Lebanon into Israel’s Viet Nam. The end result, I hope, will be the end of Israeli apartheid (helped by American arms sanctions, if necessary) and a transition to a full secular democracy between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
“, and but for the prospect of American sanctions (reluctant as they are so far) we could see further attempted genocide.” That’s my addition, not Pappé!
Great piece here in the Unz Review on the great Robert Fisk.
Hopefully I can provide this link to it as our host is now reporting there.
“Terrorism is a word that has become a plague on our vocabulary, the excuse and reason and moral permit for state-sponsored violence – our violence – which is now used on the innocent of the Middle East ever more outrageously and promiscuously,” he writes. “Terrorism, terrorism, terrorism. It has become a full stop, a punctuation mark, a phrase, a speech, a sermon, the be-all and end-all of everything that we must hate in order to ignore justice and occupation and murder on a mass scale. Terror, terror, terror, terror. It is a sonata, a symphony, an orchestra turned to every television and radio station and news agency, the soap-opera of the Devil, served up on prime-time or distilled in wearingly dull and mendacious form by right-wing “commentators of the American east coast or the Jerusalem Post or the intellectuals of Europe. Strike against Terror. Victory over Terror, War on Terror. Everlasting War on Terror. Rarely in history have soldiers and journalists and presidents and kings aligned themselves in such thoughtless, unquestioning ranks.”
https://www.unz.com/article/robert-fisk-and-the-great-war-for-civilization-w-lara-marlowe/
I recommend reading the section on the USS Vincennes – who are the terrorists ?
Turkey’s Erdoğan seems to be the most keen to broaden the legal concept of terrorism, where he wants. Within his own country, so he can imprison HDP politicians who aren’t PKK. And trying to get Europe to expand it to cover more journalists, politicians etc. Even though he declares that actual attackers on Israeli civilians weren’t terrorists.
The terms change but the motives remain constant. The 19th century empires were validated on the grounding of a clash between Christianity and barbarism. Today the conflict is expressed as democracy against terrorism.
There was little Christian spirit visible in the old empires, and precious little democracy perceivable in the Western one today. Ukraine as a symbol of the latter is as good an example as any. But, as the footballer Denis law said in a very different context, You have to give the crowd some fanny.
And Ottoman/Muslim empire vs whatever
Btw “Prime Minister Erdoğan himself has also insulted protesters by calling them “atheists and terrorists”.”
https://www.globalissues.org/news/2014/06/24/19654
Talking to my own comment here but when making it I noticed this from Oct 19 with a slickly produced video clip:
https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/turkish-military-eliminates-11-pkk-ypg-terrorists-in-northern-iraq-67373/
Which if today’s attack on an Ankara aerospace facility was by PKK, may connect dots.
Fiske’s book “The great war for civilisation” is wonderful. I have bought and given as presents many copies.
“Who Are The Terrorists?” is the title of Craig Murray’s blog post published yesterday.
Today, Craig posted on ‘X’: “Once or twice a year I write a piece of which I am truly proud and which I believe moves on the debate in a way that is essential to public understanding.
“This is definitely one of those times.”
When you read this WS copy of Craig’s “Who Are The Terrorists?”, bear in mind that when he joined the FCO in September 1984, and was put on a 5-month French language training course, I had just been removed from the South Africa political desk and seconded to the Office of Fair Trading for the next two years. So in February 1985, Craig took over the desk I’d vacated five months earlier.
Enjoy Craig’s much-acclaimed article here: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Who_Are_the_Terrorists%3F
My secondment to the OFT in September 1984 was (I believe) related to my involvement with uncovering the March 1984 ‘Coventry Four’ affair. Here’s the link: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Coventry_Four#Thatcher_critic
What do you think?
By the way, it’s even worse than you say.
At least someone accused under the Terrorism Act gets a trial. That may not sound like much – since “expressing an opinion” is a crime under that law. But at least you can know, ahead of time, whether or not you are violating the law, and decide whether or not to go ahead and risk punishment. The “rule of law” isn’t worth much when Parliament passes laws like this; but it’s not completely worthless.
Today, however, the politicians can punish you without charging you with any offence. They can decide to “sanction” you. That means that your bank account is frozen, and nobody can pay you any money (among other things).
This is mostly done to citizens of unpopular countries, and it’s therefore largely symbolic, but it can be (and has been) done to British citizens who have no other nationality.
They could do it to you. Or me. Or … anybody.
Neil Oliver, the greetin faced fellow Scot who is given a slot on GB News, had a colossal response when he raised the issue of banks sanctioning individual customers.
Under the Truck Acts, now abolished, it was possible to demand payment for labour to be paid cash in hand. This removes any sequestration threat and also means when you spend your money you leave no trace.
Not much use to me as a pensioner living in Moscow where the UK refuses to send my pension, but younger workers should agitate for the restoration of the Truck Acts.
David, I’d be interested to learn of your story: how did you come to be living in Moscow and how difficult the process was. I expect it is an interesting one?
I’m not David Warriston (and don’t know anything about him) but I can’t resist pointing out that Moscow is one of the pleasantest cities in Europe to live in. It has lots of parks – green space – and interesting districts to walk around; the metro is a joy to use, spacious and decorated with interesting murals. Crime is low compared with other big cities.
Not sure I could stand the winter climate at my age, but maybe you get used to it.
This reminds me of the fictional 1970s series “1990” starring Edward Woodward. In it the UK has become a police state that can declare a dissident journalist to be a “non-person” with material consequences like those suffered by Graham Phillips.
I agree with Toby Young’s Spectator article “In defence of a Kremlin stooge”. I hope human rights lawyers fight this abuse of state power against its own citizens.
On another issue: punishments that amount to banishment, like depriving people of citizenship should exercised by impartial judges, not politicians, and only after due process, requiring the presentation of evidence that can be tested in court.
In which case Boris Johnson should have been banished years ago.
Any non-trivial punishment should be applied by a court (i.e. an independent judiciary), based on a verdict, based on evidence that a defendant can challenge.
(Note that under current UK law, even so-called “on-the-spot” fines like parking fines can be challenged before an independent tribunal, though it’s usually not worth the bother.)
The cases in which the armed wing of the ANC could be said to have targeted civilians were exceptions, and even in the infamous cases that I’m aware of, they claimed, with greater or lesser plausibility, that the targets were South African security forces and any civilians were collateral damage. There were no cases of just going on a rampage trying to kill as many white South Africans as you can get your hands on. Admittedly, there was one case of taking white South African civilians hostage. Still, all in all, it was a far cry from the way Hamas and the other Palestinian organisations have tended to proceed – showing again and again that they regard every Israeli as a legitimate target. The bit about individuals being responsible for war crimes was interesting – why can’t organisations as a whole be held responsible for war crimes as well, especially if it is established that their leadership has ordered them? (I don’t think this has been proved of the most outrageous actions of the ANC.) I’m sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that as long as the end is righteous, an organisation can’t be condemned and proscribed for the means it employs to achieve it.
On the other points I agree – the state can be wrong, the Terrorism Act is pernicious, and the UK is getting increasingly authoritarian (as is the West in general). Seizing the materials of journalists just because of their opinions, without any reasonably convincing evidence of a genuine crime, is unacceptable, a form of censorship and state harassment of dissidents and should be simply illegal. And I’m quite sure that Winstanley has not engaged in terrorism, espionage or any crime other than having opinions that the British state dislikes.
F Foundling
Thing is, how many people – both civilian and non-civilian – did the IDF kill on October 7th. For all we know it could have been the vast majority. And deliberately planned that way weeks or months ahead of the Hamas attack. As far as I’m aware, orders were to kill military personnel (or take them hostage) and to take civilians as hostages. The helicopter gunships were firing all over the show, and they quite possibly hit hundreds of vehicles, turning the occupants to charcoal.
Now I’ve heard extensively about one particular house in a kibbutz that a tank fired at, and it seemed highly HIGHLY unlikely that that was it, and funnily enough I just happened to come across the following article by Asa Winstanley yesterday evening which I’ve not come across before, from last December:
We blew up Israeli houses on 7 October, says Israeli colonel
«An air force colonel has said that Israeli airstrikes may have intentionally killed Israeli captives rather than let them be taken to Gaza.
Speaking in Hebrew about the airstrikes, Colonel Nof Erez told a Haaretz podcast in November, that “the Hannibal Directive was apparently applied” and that 7 October “was a mass Hannibal.”»
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/we-blew-israeli-houses-7-october-says-israeli-colonel
And I forgot to state the obvious: That there are numerous pictures of destroyed buildings that could only be down to tanks and helicopter gunships. And I keep coming across more and more (in articles) that I’ve not seen before
Allan Howard
I read reports from the occupiers that the military took between 8 and 10 hours to arrive.
If tanks were used (in an Hannibal fashion or not) and if it was such a surprise how did the tanks turn up at the Music Festival so quickly?
Helicopter gunships: quick; tanks: very slow.
Tanks come on the back of low loader due to being to slow to drive direct.
Surprise or no surprise?
I suspect you don’t buy it because you approve of the dispossession and land theft in Palestine. Otherwise why stigmatise anti-colonial resistance without any mention of the depraved genocidal beserkists?
The Israelis shot the legs off thousands of peaceful protesters in Gaza’s Great March of Return in 2018. There was not a murmur from any of the people shrilling about 7 October 2023.
Why would someone obsess on the crimes committed on 7 October 2023 and simply ignore those committed in Gaza since then (and for eight decades previously)? Why would they determinedly ignore the title of Craig’s article?
“Why would someone obsess on the crimes committed on 7 October 2023 and simply ignore those committed in Gaza since then (and for eight decades previously)? Why would they determinedly ignore the title of Craig’s article?”
Because they are possessed by the rabies of Nazi-style ethnic hatred, and they like to do what they view as a bit of “community work” for the occupation and ascendancy. They don’t care whether a few people outside their tightly structured criminal gang network view them as c***s of the ilk of Pol Pot. Just so long as they’re not prevented from “establishing facts on the ground”, or “combatting anti-Semitism”, and other nudge-nudge euphemisms they sell to the Great Washed who just want to continue enjoying the privileges that put them a cut above the proles, and who think it’s dirty, obsessive, and “conspiracy theoretic” to worry about genocide.
Just an addition – I am fairly sure that if the ANC had regularly engaged in rampages and slaughter of random white civilians, demonstrating that it regards every killing of any South African white person as a noble goal, it would have been far, far more difficult to bring about the reconciliation and end of Apartheid that happened in the early nineties. The whites would have been simply too afraid to put themselves at the ANC leadership’s mercy. Of course, the very nature of the Zionist project has caused far more extreme ethnic enmity than what was seen in South Africa, but explaining this is not the same thing as justifying it. Israel is the party that is in the wrong in the grand scheme of things, but refusing to see the faults of the opposite side does not help – especially since these faults play a crucial part in the perpetuation of the cycle of atrocities.
Excellent article by Caitlin Johnstone, posted yesterday:
What’s Happening In Northern Gaza Proves Israel Lied About Everything
«Sinwar’s death will have no meaningful bearing on how Hamas or Israel conduct themselves, so it’s funny to see Israel supporters puffing their chests like this was some kind of achievement. Israel is going to keep bombing hospitals, shooting kids in the head, intentionally starving civilians, and working to steal Palestinian land just like it was doing yesterday, and Palestinians are going to keep resisting this just like they were doing yesterday…»
«You’re even seeing Israel apologists trying to call Sinwar a “coward” for the way he died, which is absurd. He died fighting off soldiers, drones and a fucking tank with one goddamn arm…»
«What’s happening in northern Gaza conclusively disproves everything that Israel’s defenders have been saying for the past year. The fact that Israel is now openly starving and killing Palestinians to force them south with the goal of stealing Palestinian land while rejecting any possibility of a hostage deal or a ceasefire disproves everything Israel apologists have been saying to justify the Israeli military’s actions in Gaza.»
https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/whats-happening-in-northern-gaza-proves-israel-lied-about-everything-01c9083b0604
Spotted this in the recommends on youtube a couple of days ago.
“There is nothing antisemitic about fighting for people’s right to live,” says Jewish Voice for Peace organizer Elena Stein, who on Monday joined hundreds of protesters arrested to block entrances to the New York Stock Exchange.
Amazing woman. Check out the interview:
“Stop Profiting Off Genocide”: 200 Arrested at Jewish Voice for Peace Protest at NY Stock Exchange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztbvvcn0VNc&t=468s
And I spotted this just now when I went onto youtube to copy the link to the above video, posted yesterday:
How Israel killed hundreds of its own people on 7 October, with Asa Winstanley and Ali Abunimah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gr_j0JKcfY (29mins 45secs)
You can’t keep a good man down!
“In 1985, the Terrorism Act 2000 was still 15 years away. There was no such thing as a proscribed organisation under the Terrorism Act.”
The IRA was first proscribed in 1939.
Several proscribed organisations are listed in the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1973.
The main Act in this field from 1974 was called the Prevention of Terrorism Act 1974, officially known as the Prevention of Terrorism Act (Temporary Provisions) Act, although there was nothing temporary about it. People in London were “held under the PTA” all the time in the 1980s.
Having seen the recent posting by the Electronic Intafada about the planned famine being executed in northern Gaza by Israel and its collaborators (while I have had an email from the UK Disasters Emergency Committee seeking donations for Gaza/Palestine). Given the veto powers that can be deployed by the Permanent Members of the UN Security Council which has led to stasis and no effective political pressure to allow for the flow of necessary humanitarian aid, one of the few forms of direct action that could be undertaken by the populace on a coordinated basis would be hunger strikes, which may in fact generate enough media coverage to break through in to the main stream media. Clearly this is an extreme form of protest with existential outcomes. A worldwide campaign could bring attention the Genocidal Famine in Gaza.
After the Gaza massacre of 2009 the UN investigational report on Gaza, lead by the self-proclaimed zionist (and jew) judge Richard Golstone, summed up Israel’s acts as:
“a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population, radically diminish its local economic capacity both to work and to provide for itself, and to force upon it an ever increasing sense of dependency and vulnerability.[4]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict
Back then some 1400 Palestinians were killed. If UN judged back then and considered what Israel did as terror. Well then what Israel do today is without any doubt whatsoever terrorism.
People who think this all started on 7th October 2023 should read that, but then they won’t, because they are not interested.
I’ve never known such grotesque dishonesty and blatant, flagrant disregard for human suffering in the face of a never ending torrent of horror every day on our screens.
I’m specifically talking about the Biden administration and this monstrous Labour government, but the last 12 months have exposed every polity and all mass media, in North America and Europe. Absolutely rotten and racist to the core.
🎻Song: “The Freedom Fighter” – Kevin Gore with Eddy Hanson – YouTube (6m 10s)
The whole “israel just defend itself”-narrative is such a primitive, black-and-white anti-intellectual drivel.
As Norman Finkelstein explain, for arguments sake, a state could engage in a “defensive” war and still commit terrorist acts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6x0S7lCIWA&t=384s
(Video is from 2009)
Do you, Mr. Murray, support the declared intent of Hamas, Hizbollah and the Iranian regime to annihilate Israel? I may say that I do not at all support Netanyahu but I wonder at the unquestioning support for organisations that explicitly advocate the genocide of Israelis.
You are conflating the abolition of the state of Israel with the massacre of its inhabitants. It is a stupid and dishonest trick.
The Zionists have to keep telling this lie. Once it falls, there is no justification for the existence of Israel whatsoever. It appears as the ethnic supremacist regime that it is.
The “justification” for the existence of Israel is almost an exact carbon copy of the US neo-Nazis’ “14 word” slogan.
Robert Noble Graham
No they are not advocating for a genocide. They are against the ideology, the regime. I assume you are against Iran? Does that mean you want to annihilate iranians? I assume you were against the apartheid-regime of South Africa? Yes? Does that mean then that you wanted to see a genocide of the south africans? No. So why are you playing this game when it comes to this conflict?
Go read Hamas charter. They explicitly say they are against zionism as an idea not jews per se:
16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
Iran there are thousands of jews, synagogues and they reject accusations that they are harassed, suffering a genocide etc.
Iran’s Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran
I want to pose a question to you. What would you do if you lived in Gaza right now. Would you have happy, positive views of Israel? Would you cherish zionism? No you would not, so why putting on this arrogant attitude that palestinians/iranians somehow have some irrational view regarding Israel?
Besides do you support the declared intent of Israel? The Likud Charter say explicitly that there will be no palestinian state from the river to the sea:
.”The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty”.
There are Jews who support Hamas, and these include some religious Jews who oppose the existence of the state of Israel and who call for large-scale reparations to be paid to the Palestinians. (What exactly they plan to do when the Messiah arrives is unclear.) Hamas welcomes their support. The idea that Hamas wants to kill them is a disgusting lie. Of course it has to be recognised that spooks are everywhere and they don’t view religion as out of bounds.
Personally I don’t think the Jewish religion should be allowed off the hook. Nobody should ignore the fact that the “God” of what Christians call the “Old Testament” was genocidalist.
But it shouldn’t be forgotten that Christians and Muslims SHARE the Judaist belief that the Jews were God’s “chosen” people at that time, even when they were committing genocide. So Christianity and Islam shouldn’t be let off the hook either, on that score.
The differences between the Judaist and the Christian-Islamic views of the Jews as “chosen people” are as follows.
1. (Okay this is obvious, but let’s say it.) Judaists think Jews are still God’s chosen people. Christians and Muslims think God changed his policy on this. Mr Tribal God became Mr Everyone’s God at some point. This was something to do with a Palestinian refugee getting ritually murdered on a piece of wood stuck in the ground, like some kinda pseudo-tree, according to Christians.
2. In answer to the question why on earth were (or are) the Jews God’s chosen people, Christians and Muslims tend to answer “Dunno. They were, though. God works in mysterious ways. Can’t disagree with the prophets.” Judaists, however, know deep down that their “God” is essentially a personification of “what’s good for the Jews”, and that the religion functions to tie the ethnic group together. So they don’t have to know why this, or why that. Just do what works to maintain the ethnic group, with a culture built around a certain attitude towards other ethnic groups. Hence in modern speak there’s the notion that “the Jews aren’t a religion – they’re a people with a religion”. The meaning of this is what I just said.
3. Judaists see Jesus as a race traitor. Most Christians see him as the “son of God”, Muslims as a prophet in a line of prophets.
And the thing is that as life becomes more precarious and degraded, religions of all kinds are boosted, including these three. So there’s no simple answer to the question what to do, and certainly “Down with religion” isn’t the answer. Also it cannot be denied that many religious people do very worthwhile charitable work, for which people in Gaza are grateful. Nor can it be denied that religion comforts people who are in trouble, bereaved, maimed in war, the sick and the dying.
@Jack – “What would you do if you lived in Gaza right now. Would you have happy, positive views of Israel?”
What Zionists actually think, in relation to this question, is “In that situation, if I were a Palestinian, I would want to kill all the Jews”.
This is of course insane. But Zionists are insane. They have mental rabies and a Nazi-type belief in race war and “kill kill kill, so we don’t get exterminated” (followed by rape, credit card theft, and TikTok pictures).
Then, once you dehumanise the enemy, anything done against the enemy is “justified”.
It is extremely similar to the attitude of e.g. the SS in German concentration camps (or the Ustashi in Croatian ones, or the Khmer Rouge). Which is why Zionists don’t like this being said. Zionism really is Jewish Nazism.
Do you, Robert Noble Graham, support the decades of slaughter of Palestinian civilians by theIsraeli state?
Tzipi Navon, Sara Netanyahu’s close advisor and office manager called for residents from Gaza who participated in the [7 October] massacre to be tortured live on broadcast television:
“First removing the nails from the hands and feet … cut off [their] genitals and let [them] see [their testicles] fried in canola oil and [force them] to eat them … Keep the tongue to the end, so that it pleases us with its screams, the ears so that [they] can hear [their] own screams and the eyes so that [they] can see us smile.”
https://novaramedia.com/2024/10/18/i-went-to-gaza-what-i-saw-was-a-holocaust/
There is more, including anal electric shock torture and bestiality. Our government supports this regime.
Lovely Western values on full display. And meanwhile protestors against genocide and campaigners to stop oil are gaoled in the civilised West. If it’s a garden, the gardener is Hieronymus Bosch.
How to win friends and influence people? Israeli charm offensives right there.
But – if the other side said it they would be on Sky news like a shot. Not only soulless but a watcher of too many Horror Movies.
It’s in the Bible though so it’s alright to do some vicious smiting. Unless it’s done to you of course.
This, which I came across yesterday on youtube:
Israel Reveals its Devious Plan to End War in the Middle East
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMxooA7CQ8g (10mins)
Led me to this – ie a Middle East Monitor article posted on October 1st:
Jerusalem Post deletes article claiming Lebanon is part of Israel’s ‘promised land’
The Jerusalem Post has prompted a controversy after publishing then swiftly deleting an article suggesting that Lebanon and several other Middle Eastern countries are part of Israel’s “promised land”.
“Is Lebanon part of Israel’s promised territory?” was published on 25 September, coinciding with Israel’s assault on Lebanon and subsequent ground invasion. The timing and content of the piece have been viewed by critics as evidence of Israel’s expansionist ambitions in the region.
In the now-deleted article, Mark Fish claimed that the land “promised by God” to the “children of Israel” includes parts of modern-day Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and even Turkey. Fish cited religious texts to support its claims.
“The Torah provides clear guidelines regarding the areas we were commanded to conquer when taking possession of the land,” he wrote. He elaborated further on the concept of “Greater Israel”, suggesting that the Biblical boundaries stretch “from the ‘River of Egypt’ [interpreted by some as the Nile or a smaller river in Sinai] to the Perat River [Euphrates].”
The Jerusalem Post removed the article following a backlash on social media, with many accusing the newspaper of promoting expansionist ideology under the guise of religious justification. However, the article has been archived and continues to circulate online.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241001-jerusalem-post-deletes-article-claiming-lebanon-is-part-of-israels-promised-land/
Putin gets falsely accused of being an expansionist by the West and demonised, as such, but they and their propaganda machine keeps schtum about the ambitions of their demented, deranged psychopathic mass-murdering baby-killing buddies in Israel.
Same old bollox…
Following its summit in Italy, the G7 — the United States, Italy, Canada, Britain, France, and Japan — said it remains “united in supporting the need for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza,” the release of all hostages, and a “significant and sustained increase” in the flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza.
‘G7 Warns Iran To End Support For Hamas, Hezbollah’
https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-khamenei-sinwar-hamas-survive/33164682.html (Radio Free Europe Oct 19th)
Bully for the G7. What about the grownups’ conference, the BRICS one, to be held in Russia (Tatarstan) next week? It’s the first that the four new members will attend as full participants:
Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa
Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, UAE
(They account for 48% of the world’s population. The G7 countries account for 10%.)
But wait…the about-to-fall-apart USA, five of its dependencies (three being so dependent that they allow USA military bases on their territory), plus Japan, are waving a stick – and telling their local populations about it in their media.
@Allan – Thanks for this. The now deleted Jerusalem Post article is archived here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240925120359/https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-821680
But it may not be archived for much longer, so if anyone thinks they might wish to refer to it later, they should save or print a copy.
And to think that some Zionists, when the cameras are rolling, say that Israel “wants to be like any other country”.
Another article by Mark Fish, on the red heifer:
https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-796118
From the second of those articles:
“We all know that this last war is a religious war between the evil forces of Iran, who we explained are Amalek, and Israel.”
So Iran is being called Amalek. Watch this space.
Fish’s article is described as “written in cooperation with Shuva Israel”. That’s a group that channels money from the USA to post-Six Day War Zionist settlements, including one called Yitzhar, from where Zionist thugs have carried out pogroms against Arab villagers.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/settlements-benefitting-us-tax-exempt-fundraising/8447
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asira_al-Qibliya#Settler_violence
I would like to add just a few things to your great explanation about the 3 religions.
I find it amusing how according to “Holy books” they have the right to Palestine but ignore the creation of Israel after the Amargedon and other non sense.
After searching about Haavara (Ken Livingston scandal) to my disbelief I came across YT video in which President of Iran (Ahmadinejad) was hugging and kissing “senior/leaders” of the Orthodox Jews in New York. It was arranged official meeting attended by about dozen Jews in full traditional dress.
In my Western ignorance I thought it was a fake.
Cheers Brian. And copy saved.
Those Nato stooges and the genocidal Zionists who are planning to set the whole middle east on fire, using all sorts of advanced weapons, including nuclear devices, they are the terrorists to mankind.
They will set off one massive calamity. Good to have known you all. Take care and cherish your family and friends.
More nazi crap coming out of Israel, fully supported by USA.
“In a document handed over to Washington several weeks ago, Israel cited its principal demands for ending its aggression against Lebanon, Axios reported.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are to be allowed to engage in “active enforcement” to ensure that the Lebanese Shia movement Hezbollah is unable to rearm and rebuild its military infrastructure in areas of southern Lebanon that are close to the border, an Israeli official was cited as saying.
Israel reportedly also demands that its air force be granted freedom of operation in Lebanese air space.”
https://sputnikglobe.com/20241021/israel-lays-out-conditions-for-ending-aggression-against-lebanon-in-paper-handed-to-us—report-1120616791.html
So the Israeli terrorists want to
* control the airspace
* deny their adversaries the capability to rebuild a military infrastucture.
It’s almost as if Hezbollah are being denied the right to defend themselves.
Tangential but not totally off topic – posting this here as I just did on the Skripal coverup – it is by that other great civil servant who found his conscience to be greater than his acquiescence to injustice.
“ Clive P
April 22, 2018 at 12:29
I have been reading the blogs for some time but this is my first post. Like Craig I was a senior civil servant but in the ministry of defence not the fco. I had plenty of dealings with all three intelligence agencies. It seems to me that the reason none of the MSM are doing any investigating/reporting of the Salisbury affair, apart from official handouts, is that the government have slapped a D-Notice over the whole incident and it is not possible to report that a notice has been issued. Here is another theory as to what happened. The Russians pardoned Skripal and allowed him to leave (spy agencies have an understanding that agents will always be swapped after an interval – it’s the only protection they have and helps recruitment). In the UK Skripal would have been thoroughly debriefed by MI6 and MI5 (his ex-handler lives near Salisbury). If at some point they discovered that Skripal was giving them false information, perhaps he was told to do so by the FSB as a condition of his release, lives may have been endangered/lost. If he also was also involved in the ‘golden showers’ dossier then elements in the US would have a reason to act as well. The whole incident was an inside job not to kill him, hence the use of BZ, but to give him a warning and a punishment. The whole thing is being treated as though the authorities know exactly what went on but have to cover it up.”
We should have heard a lot more from CliveP, RIP, as we should from current civil servants forced into complicity for ‘National Interests’ which are defined by multinational plutocrats who buy politicians including our current one – with his snazzy glasses and sharp suit being shifty in DC trying to escalate the World War against the Multipolar.
I am still waiting for some actual furore about the £4 million donation the week before the general election – never mind the squizzle pointing diversion to his wardrobe upgrade and makeover ! He needs voice coaching like Maggie to stop him sounding like a very boring ‘ever so humble’ Micky Mouse.
As I understand it, D Notices are voluntary. Obviously with a totally corrupt MSM they are unnecessary.
I would hold your breath for the release of the Xmas panto: ‘Queer Starmer and back Alley Babba unveiling the whore of Jerusalem.’
Who are the terrorists?
Certainly not Holocaust Harris or old Genocide Joe.
Quite the opposite in fact if you buy into the contorted perspective of European elites.
Further confirmation came this weekend when Nord Stream Bomber Biden was awarded Germany’s highest honour for “his work improving the German-American friendship and the transatlantic alliance.”
He was presented with the award by Germany’s President Frank-Walter Steinmeier.
https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1847209297395982475
The old passing the baton to the new. Seig Heil.
Hezbollah have barely started, the port of Haifa is Israels largest port with vast petrochemical facilities and off shore gas platforms.
BAZAN Group, is an oil refining and petrochemicals company located in Haifa Bay, Israel. It operates the largest oil refinery in the country. ORL has a total oil refining capacity of approximately 9.8 million tons of crude oil per year with a Nelson complexity index of 9. ORL provides a variety of products used in industrial operations, agriculture and transportation. ORL is Israel’s largest integrated refining and petrochemical facility.The company also provides storage and transportation services for oil fuel products, as well as electricity and steam to industrial customers in the region.
There are probably good reasons why Hezbollah have not yet targeted these and other vulnerable and vital sites in the Haifa area. Haifa Bay can almost be seen with the naked eye from South Lebanon.
Who are the terrorists ? These are they.
“US spy tech firm Palantir has weaseled its way further into the British state. This time, the nefarious surveillance technology firm has seized a contract with the Leicestershire Police force. It appears to be for its key intelligence platform. This is, of course, after the Tories awarded Palantir a contract for NHS data.”
“Peter Thiel’s Palantir provides the targeting algorithm Israel uses to choose when and where to arrest or kill academics, poets, doctors, medics, etc.”
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2024/10/21/palantir-nhs-police/
https://www.mintpressnews.com/peter-thiel-gaza-ai-war-white-house/288372/
Hi Stevie Boy.
I was just reading Private Eye #1627, July 5th–12th: It has an article called GLOBAL INITIATIVE about Palantir, Mandelson, NHS, HMRC, DIT and a 2019 Policy dinner on ‘Brexit Borders’. Not long after they got a nice contract for ‘a “feasibility evaluation” of post-Brexit borders and customs management’ – 26 million quid!
Some positive action taken by Australia – Europe must follow suit.
“A former Israeli diplomat and senior advisor to prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to appear in court over his latest comments about the Tel Aviv regime’s bloody war against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
According to Australian investigative journalist Peter Cronau, opening statements have been heard at the private prosecution of Mark Regev at a court in Melbourne.
“Regev is being charged with Advocacy for Genocide, section 80.2D of the Australian Criminal Code, for public comments advocating for Genocide of the Palestinian people” during an interview with Australia’s public broadcaster ABC Radio earlier this month, Cronau wrote in a post published on his X account on Monday.
He noted that the former Israeli diplomat’s remarks inciting genocide by advocating starvation to be inflicted on the residents of Gaza were made on October 10.
Cronau further said that Regev was served in the Israeli-occupied territories a few weeks ago with the charge sheet and summons.
The case against Netanyahu’s former senior advisor was filed by Aboriginal Australian activist Robbie Thorpe and lawyer Daniel Taylor.”
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/10/21/735689/Former-Netanyahu%E2%80%99s-advisor-to-appear-in-court-over-Gaza-genocide-comments