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@ michael norton September 17, 2024 at 20:30
You have no reply to glenn_nl either in the Pending queue or in the Trash list. No forum contribution in your name has been deleted since 10th Sept – and that wasn’t a reply to glenn_nl.
“I’m in Spain right now, about 50 miles from Portugal where this is happening:
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/9/17/portugal-battles-deadly-wildfires
But that’s OK I guess, because the British government can look forward to saving a few quid on winter fuel subsidies for poor pensioners, right Michael?
You’ve been pumping out the same BS line here for weeks now, and I really wish you’d cut it out.”
Hello glenn_nl,
When I was in Northern Portugal about 1980, in the area of Vila Pouca de Aguiar, there was a plantation fire, my group assisted the locals and the bombardeio beat the edges of the flames.
The locals told us they had always had fires but the fires were worse because of the planting of Eucalyptus.
That was in September, in the bars/streets the thermometer read 114 FahrenheitMichael – there have been fires of record sizes, in record numbers, around the world in recent years – particularly since 2020.
Good grief, are you seriously dismissing all that because it was a bit hot there and you witnessed a fire in 1980?
Global climate change has contributed massively to fires worldwide. Do you not care about that at all?
You often give me the impression that you’re doing your utmost to avoid the very obvious points that are made to you, over and over, and it makes discussions incredibly tedious.
“You often give me the impression that you’re doing your utmost to avoid the very obvious points that are made to you, over and over, and it makes discussions incredibly tedious.”
But it also illustrates succinctly the reason this discussion hasn’t developed dividends. Michael isn’t illiterate or uneducated, but he chooses not to engage as to do so would undermine his carefully constructed dissonance. Like most he is concerned, but is unable to process the information provided to its natural conclusion. Perhaps it’s the best way – it’s not easy retaining any sanity when you can see the express train hurtling down the tracks toward you. But yes, it does become tedious and tiresome.
https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/09/20/wildfires-why-are-portuguese-forests-so-flammable
glenn_nlIt seems many of the locals in the Portugal plantation / forests, do, at least in part blame Eucalyptus.
It might be that this fast growing antipodean species is not best suited to Iberia.
It might be that a native forest would suit better?Doubtless, Michael. The point remains, however, that global warming is causing a huge increase in forest fires. Which is just one of many, many problems it causes. Saving a few quid on winter fuel does not offset this.
Michael:
– “It might be that a native forest would suit better?”
But this is precisely the problem created by climate change. The climate is changing too quickly, leaving native species badly adapted to the new conditions. Ecosystems take time to develop, they consist of literally uncountable interdependent species; plants, animals and microbes. They can’t just move poleward with the changing conditions, even if the terrain remains consistent enough to permit it.
I’ve posted this link before, but please take another look:
The steepest parts of the warm up from the most recent glaciation is less than half a degree from 12,700 BCE to 12450 BCE – that’s 2 degree per millennium. The recent change from 1990 to 2016 is about 0.7 degree – that’s 27 degree per millennium, over 13 times faster, and there’s every reason to believe it’ll keep accelerating, especially with all these wild fires destroying forests and turning them into yet more CO2.
steel production/regional Germany:
“After major steel summit: East German company criticizes Habeck’s green hydrogen
Economics Minister Robert Habeck promises “green steel” through hydrogen. The steel industry, however, considers this an illusion. What is the industry demanding?”
report by daily BERLINER ZEITUNG
https://archive.is/CnegsLet the pensioners freeze while the elite stay warm in their Reptile House.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6HcM-pkgOk“It might be that a native forest would suit better?”
Clark, I know a bit about this subject.
In a Equatorial Rainforest that has not yet been degraded, the temperature stays much the same, if a couple of canopy trees collapse, so that the sunshine penetrates the ground area, it gets hotter in the daylight.
The forest essentially controls its own environment. The key here is flowering plants – Angiosperms, they allow for much more complexity of environment. Perhaps these forests have been existing for one hundred million years, so, they survived the destruction KPg.
If you climb to the top of the canopy it will be hotter, in daylight.Yet we are now cutting down vast swathes of these forests so we can grow beef to feed dogs. To plant Palm Oil plantations, to mine for Gold/Silver/Copper/Tin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgera_Gold_Mine#External_linksRemember the all electric future which is the promised land, promised by Ed. Milliband.
Quote Shibboleth
September 19, 2024 at 14:56#100640REPLY“No idea what your gripe is with Milliband – he’s just another politician trumpeting the establishment line. He most likely is concerned about his own career and knows if he tells the “truth” about our predicament, he’ll be voted out of office. I’m quite sure every senior politician knows we’re screwed and the future is bleak for humanity – and they sure don’t want to be the focus of any blame or recriminations once it finally dawns on everyone else.
So they tell you a story – and not to worry too much – as it’s all in hand and we’re going to have an all electric green future. All the gullible fools lap it up. But we can’t – for all the reasons that have been explained to you by many good people on this forum.”
All the gullible fools.
A good line that.
A question I have asked but nobody ever answers
If the U.K. goes flat out for Carbon Zero over the next decade,
will it reduce ant Carbon dioxide in the Atmosphere?Clark,
your Death hockey sticks graphs look
quite frightening.
Use of Copper has gone up a lot.
But I think it shows not by much per person.
I suspect that means, that people in North America, China, Japan, India, Australasia and Europe have been using ever more Copper, whilst the countries the Copper /tin /Gold/Silver comes from, just dig it out of the ground to scratch a living but have not much increased their personal consumption of Copper.
I think I read a Tesla has two hundred pounds of Copper?
If the U.K. does achieve an all electric future, I wonder if how much Copper would be needed has been enumerated.
I wonder if we should consider the lands where these minerals are ripped from, how the remediation is pre-panned or not.
How their rainforests will be returned to pristine condition, after the mining has stopped.
Will there be monitoring of the residual poisons?As reported by MINING.COM, to achieve Tesla’s goal of building 20 million cars per year, the company would need 1,820,000 tonnes of copper, roughly 9% of global production in 2022 or almost two years of production at Escondida in Chile, the world’s largest copper mine.
So a lot of Copper just for battery cars.
Copper supply
To electrify global vehicle production by 2035, 55% more new copper mines will need to be built. However, the average copper mine takes 23 years to go into production after an area has been discovered to contain the metal.Michael, if Britain reduces its CO2 emissions further, it will not make a big difference to atmospheric CO2 concentration rise.
However, there is politics to consider, and this is multifaceted. To take the simplest first, all counties have to decarbonise. Next up the complexity ladder, the countries that industrialised earliest and thereby grew their economies (and their exploitative empires) have no moral argument to persuade less industrialised countries to constrain emissions unless they reduce their own. Additionally, there are historic emissions to consider; the most industrialised countries have already produced massive emissions over the course of two centuries, and thus are the reason that developing countries can’t do the same. Basically, we had already eaten most of the cake (i.e. the carbon budget), so we’re utter hypocrites telling others to eat less unless we eat less ourselves.
The biggest thing the UK government could do to reduce emissions would be to control the banks and the investment markets. Without looking it up, I think about 15% of all global investment in fossil fuel extraction comes from the City of London. Constraining that would make fifteen to thirty times more difference than reducing UK domestic emissions. Ever heard the politicians or media mention it? I haven’t, and that tells you that the real master is the financial system.
But the government very rarely tell us the real reasons they do anything anyway; such decisions are made in private. They can’t not know about fossil fuel depletion, so they know that electrification has to happen anyway. And it needs to be done before the diesel for the construction machinery skyrockets in price.
Then there’s health. Internal combustion engine emissions cause millions of cases of respiratory illness. That used to be questionable, but the evidence recently became indisputable. If governments fail to legislate against internal combustion engines, whole generations of people will be able to sue them. You may have noticed that manufacturers like Volvo are phasing out combustion engine production earlier than governments are planning to ban new sales of them.
Michael:
– “I suspect that means, that people in North America, China, Japan, India, Australasia and Europe have been using ever more Copper, whilst the countries the Copper /tin /Gold/Silver comes from, just dig it out of the ground to scratch a living but have not much increased their personal consumption of Copper.”
I expect that’s about right. Yet another gross injustice.
– “How their rainforests will be returned to pristine condition, after the mining has stopped.”
(1) Mining? Stopped? But due to depletion of ore concentration, mining has to increase and increase and increase!
(2) Restoring i.e. recreating ancient forest looks entirely unfeasible to me. The soil can be put back and trees planted, but that’s highly superficial compared with the millennia-old ecosystem that was ripped out.
Clark, over the last twelve months the cost of Oil / Natural Gas has dropped by 20%-25%.
This is an indication ( in my mind) that a Global crash is just around the corner.
On a slightly different point, the new government have claimed they have found a £22,000,000,000 black hole in government finances, this is apparently why pensioners can now freeze to death. If, in the U.K. we are going to be horrible to pensioners because we are broke, how can they find the thousands of billions for the green energy transition?
How can they find money for Ukraine?
The two million on street E.V. chargers alone will probably cost more than a quarter of a trillion pounds.
Hinkley Point C is expected to cost forty eight billion.
The electrified HS2 has been mostly cancelled cancelled because we can no longer justify the cost?
The life time estimate of cost for the new nuclear weapons submarine fleet of four boats is estimated at one third of a trillion pounds.Priorites of governments seem to be war.
Pensioners needn’t freeze this winter – the cold weather allowance is now means tested and provided it’s set at a reasonable threshold only those who can afford to pay will lose the benefit.
We should not be sending billions to Ukraine to try and start world war three, I would rather we doubled the pensioners heating allowance.
The New Labour government are choosing war. Yet they have not asked the people if they want war with Russia, they certainly have not asked pensioners if they are happy to be poorer for some unknown cause.
Quote BBC
“Great British Energy was one of Labour’s key election pledges and was always planned to be based in Scotland.BBC Scotland news revealed earlier this month that the decision had been taken to base the company in the U.K.’s oil and gas capital.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj9n3rl794oI can’t work out what it is.
It will not dig for Coal/Oil/Gas, it will make no Electricity, it has no money.
How will it help?
Is it just another scam to give money to rich people?Michael, the bankrupt brains around here have faith in what they say. They don’t know the difference between weather and climate change either, medical science still hasn’t found a cure for stupid. The world has eclectics and alarmists in abundance, when did it never.
These are interesting pieces from oilprice.com., lots of food for thought.
Quite why we need to ‘produce’ 50GW from offshore turbines isn’t explained, especially as we rarely have demand higher than 35GW at any peak period. The UK government has plans to have the capacity to produce eight to twelve times what our demand will be from all sources. Even allowing for a capacity to step up to the plate and cover when the wind don’t shine and the sun don’t blow (sic), this all smells of a Covid style money making racket.
Don’t beat your head against empty heads for ever. Just thought I’d let you know that your not alone…_
“medical science still hasn’t found a cure for stupid”
Clearly.
DiggerUK, the ‘alarmists’ you refer to – these include, do they not, the international body of tens of thousands of scientists who have made it their day jobs to study, and as best they can understand and predict, in the fields of climate, weather, ecology, virology, epidemiology, immunology etc.? Can we just have confirmation on that please?
Because I’d like to know on what basis you claim that your individual understanding, apparently drawn from the Daily Mail and similar sources, so thoroughly outweighs their collective expertise.
It smells to me as if you’re afflicted by extreme arrogance in such fields. Articles you have previously shown your approval of by citing with links suggest that you lack critical thinking skills, i.e. you seem to choose sources that confirm your conservative political position, and then unthinkingly lap up the selective, propagandistic, biased sound-bites they endlessly repeat about matters that should be considered rationally. You really ought to be able to recognise emotionally manipulative propaganda even when it happens to support the political position that you hold, but this seems to be a skill you lack.
Is it possible that the Daily Mail et al have succeeded in deluding you as to what science actually is?
I’d rather you stayed and debated, adhering to principles of good faith, but my guess is that rather than test and refine your position, you’ll protect it from scrutiny and potential revision by running away, because that is what you consistently have done before.
DiggerUK; a case in point. You wrote:
– “Quite why we need to ‘produce’ 50GW from offshore turbines isn’t explained, especially as we rarely have demand higher than 35GW at any peak period.”
It took me less than five seconds thought to come up with multiple answers to this.
That’s about the best you’re going to get from Digger – some patronising dismissal, evidence-free assertions, and a few insults before running away again.
Very tiresome behaviour, but highly predictable and something we have to put up with from these rather immature and limited individuals. Such people like to think they’re on the winning team, somehow, by agreeing with the line heavily pushed by powerful forces in the extraction industries that want everyone to remain stupid and ignorant, while they continue to enrich themselves.
Joachim Dengler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9zFRRKmNP4
Seems to think that world temperatures should be measured at sea level on the oceans as this is more constant.
C3 photosynthesis increases up to 30 degrees C.
so a way to go before we get out of the prolific state of absorbing Carbon
It starts tailing off about 35 degrees C.Michael, I thought you were concerned about elites manipulating people? Joachim Dengler is a top bod in the Legatum Institute. He’s not a climate scientist either. Have you heard of the Koch brothers? Elites.
– “The Legatum Institute Foundation (LIF), a charitable enterprise created by the Legatum Group, has taken funding in recent years from another foundation tied to US fossil fuel giant Koch Industries, a major supporter of think-tanks, lobbyists and politicians opposing climate action in the United States.
– US tax filings show the LIF, whose board of trustees McCormick chairs, received donations of £60,700 ($77,000) in both 2019 and 2018 from the Charles Koch Foundation, the charitable arm of Koch Industries. According to Greenpeace, the Koch family spent more than £116.1 million ($145.5 million) directly financing 90 groups denying climate change science from 1997-2018.”
“C3 photosynthesis increases up to 30 degrees C”
Clark are you saying this professor of Physics is lying?One of the contributors on this paper is Joachim Dengler
It is a very important idea, to make concrete more efficient and less polluting.
Cement is made of Limestone.“Ordinary Portland cement (OPC) is the core ingredient of many construction materials. In 2022, 4.1 billion tons were used worldwide, contributing to ~8% of CO2 emissions ( ~ 3 Gt/year). Nevertheless, the complete strength-generating capacity of OPC remains unrealized due to the restricted conversion of aluminates to ettringite, caused by conventional hydration kinetics. Here we show a hydration control additive that selectively modifies the hydration kinetics, thereby facilitating enhanced dissolution of aluminates (calcium aluminoferrite and tricalcium aluminate) in OPC, which promotes ettringite formation at a desired time. Increasing ettringite content improves packing of the hardened cement, resulting in ~50% higher specific strength and enabling cement reduction. It also increases OPC strength development efficiency, reducing carbon footprint by ~30%. The use of this additive can be combined with methods …”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43246-023-00441-9
