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It does not look like some leaders of major polluting states will turn up.
Modi from India is said to be coming but India has said it will remain addicted to Coal for decades to come.https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20211021-climate-change-will-cause-global-tensions-say-us-intelligence-services
Good to know that the CIA can know threats that are not just North Korea/Syria/Libya/Tunisia/Iraq/Afghanistan/Taiwan.
Looks like Obomba will be accompanying Biden, probably as his “minder”Michael, I suggest that the nations that industrialised early and got rich and powerful by burning more than their share of carbon, undertake to pay for the poorer nations to expand their solar, wind and natural gas generation capacity until they don’t need to burn coal. If the US/UK etc. can afford all these wars and militarism and megatonnes of plastic baubles, they can afford to do that.
What do you reckon?
I am not sure if I did post this earlier and if I am sorry
Carbon Brief: Which countries have emitted the most CO2? (YouTube, 1m39s)
Grief, it could be too late:
– In just 13 years, global oil production could enter into a terminal and exponential decline, accompanied by the overall collapse of the global oil and gas industries over the next three decades. […] The oil and gas industries are consuming exponentially more and more energy just to keep extracting oil and gas. That’s why they’ve entered a downwards spiral of increasing costs of production, diminishing profits, rising debt and irreversible economic decline.
Oil System Collapsing so Fast it May Derail Renewables, Warn French Government Scientists (Byline Times, 20 Oct 2021)
Energy is needed to build renewable energy sources; this is the Energy Trap which I’ve mentioned before.
We need to economise now!
Michael norton, Oct 20, 18:53, final paragraph:
– “After 20 months of a pandemic, most people have had more than enough of being told how to live their live by the Elite and by True Believers. So many people are telling us daily they are right and we are wrong, just give it a fucking rest.”
Michael, you still haven’t answered me, yet I see that you have been posting elsewhere. You swore at me. I’m asking; who are the Elite, and who are these True Believers?
“Most people” don’t want to be told what to think by the Elite, right? So “most people” have stopped reading the Mail, the Telegraph, the Daily Express, the Times and the Sun, have they? Because last time I checked, those were the most popular media titles in England. Anti-lockdown, pro-military, anti-EU, pro-Westminster, pro-consumerism, anti-China, anti-XR, anti-climate action etc. etc. etc; all attitudes that are very prevalent in England.
Those titles are owned by four billionaires who don’t live in the UK, nor pay tax in the UK.
https://twitter.com/KevinAn48751902/status/1448549303560155138/photo/1
Are overseas billionaires the common people then? Or do they just control those media on your behalf out of the goodness of their hearts, to ensure that your voices are heard? They certainly can’t be the Elite, influencing how you think.
No, here’s one of the Elite who tells you how to think, one of those brainy kids who went to university – same university I dropped out of after a year, as it goes; he was a year above me in the Physics Department, and a friend of mine. He helped design GPS, and became Assistant Dean of Research at the Engineering Department, University College London, no less; proper Elite. Look at his journey home from work, er, on the bus. Look at the, er, mansion he lives in. Look at his holiday in, er, Wales, and the swanky parties he goes to:
Please michael, just talk to me. Neither of us are billionaires, neither of us own media organisations. We’re equals. You thought that leaving the EU was striking a blow against the Elite, because people who’d gone to college advised against it. Who set the college kids against the workers? Who set the English against the French, against the Chinese, and all in favour of nuclear submarines and military tensions? In whose interest is that conflict?
Hello Clark, I just typed two long replies to you, they have not been recognised.
I seem not to have been logged in.I am now going outside to cycle.
MichaelMichael, sorry to hear that your replies went missing; I find it very disheartening when that happens. Sometimes I can get back what I wrote by clicking the ‘Back’ button in the browser, but often it doesn’t work, so recently I have been trying to remember to copy my text before posting. I hope you enjoy your cycle ride; I cycle a lot too. I hope there aren’t too many aggressive motorists today; some of them really upset me sometimes.
And michael, I know I’m pressing quite hard on these points. I’ll be open about it; I do want you to question some of the attitudes you express here. You may well not read any of the titles I listed but we’re all surrounded by many people who do, so we’re immersed in the opinions they project; it’s impossible to escape from such opinions or be unaffected by them. Speaking against them can prove unpopular.
Politicians are as affected by this just as much as the rest of us, as are people who work for other, supposedly more independent media organisations. When people see the word ‘propaganda’ they usually think of the the government controlling the news media, but I think the converse, media influencing politicians, is actually more significant. Politicians and other media personalities are a more valuable target for corporate propaganda because they have more power and reach.
In this sense, propaganda is like covid; we tend to think of its effects upon us each of us personally, but its effects upon society as a whole are more significant.
O.K. Clark, I’ll try and do something I am not good at, I’ll try and be succinct. About one hundred million years ago there was an increase in Angiosperm Biodiversity and Forests. Then came along the KT Event.
This killed out the dinosaurs, so they could no longer feast on the tree leaves. This allowed the Angiosperm Forests to explode.
The Biodiversity of the Angiosperm Forests are much more three D, than the Gymnosperm Forests.
This moved to a fuller environment, with greater uptake of Carbon.
The Angiosperm Forests drew down vast quantities of Carbon, this moved the World to have the smallest quantity of Carbon dioxide in our atmosphere – ever. C4 plants then turned up, able to need less water and less Carbon dioxide.The Industrial Revolution has put some Carbon back into our Atmosphere.
No doubt more trees and shrubs will take in more Carbon
and things will even out.
Personally, I do not think there is a climate emergency, it is hype.Glasgow dustbinmen go on strike for the duration of COP26, The railways go on strike for the duration of COIP26.
Disruption is expected in Glasgow over as the first major road closures for COP26 take effect.Personally, I would not go anywhere near this Covid-Super-Spreader-Event
This is a jolly for people without jobs.
Michael, what sort of effects do you think the sort of changes you described would have on human civilisation?
– “This is a jolly for people without jobs.”
In Extinction Rebellion, I have met several doctors and nurses, a school inspector, a software developer, two young women who started their own businesses, a psychologist, a machine code developer and wood stove designer / constructor, a county councillor, a former investigative journalist who now works zero hours and agency work because the journalism trade has collapsed, several scientists, lots of students, two festival organisers, a former Marconi radar engineer, a former army engineer, and two electricians. Of course, I don’t discover everyone’s jobs. People book time off work to attend the actions. XR has groups for various professions – XR Doctors, XR Engineers, XR Scientists etc.
Are you prepared to stand corrected on that point?
Oh, and camping illegally, getting shouted at and insulted by some members of the public, facing police and getting arrested can be pretty intense; not really a ‘jolly’, though there are a lot of joyous moments, public support, and good social support too. I have sat in a circle of fifty Quakers at one action.
“Personally, I do not think there is a climate emergency, it is hype.”
What is the basis of your reasoning?
Good morning everyone. It is Sunday, which in the traditions descended from Europe is the day we put aside everyday matters to consider the most important concerns – right and wrong, good and evil, and the welfare of those closest to us.
Extinction Rebellion’s first demand – tell the truth.
ET, I had a very low level education. Possibly I could be converted to understand that there is an imminent climate emergency but I could also suggest that it might be possible for a religious order to impact such that I go about with sandwich boards declaring the end of the world is nigh. Most people are not interested. I cannot fathom why Boris Johnson has been captured, I suppose he is weak and wants to fit in with the whims of his latest female partner.
Politicians are often as weak as any ordinary people, they can be swayed by fanaticism, look at Iran, look at Germany, look at Japan, look at North Korea. Just because we are bombarded with blanket coverage of Global Warming Catastrophe
does not mean every person will be taken up with the fervour. I am an individual, who is not taken up with the fervour.I have no idea if the world is getting hotter or cooler or more windy or more wet. I am concerned about the destruction of natural habitat. You are not allowed to mention population growth.
In the last one hundred years the wold has increased its population by five times. Then there is the exponential increase in dogs. Yes, I think people crave too much stuff, yes people are too fat. Nothing will change in Glasgow, people will still want cheap plastic crap from China, people will still want one use plastic bags to collect dog muck.
People will still fly to other lands with zero tax on aviation fuel.Forget global warming. Start a campaign to stop people breeding, see how that goes. Start a campaign to get people to buy less stuff they do not need from China, see how that goes. Start a campaign to get people to stop buying and eating factory food. Start a campaign to stop India and China burning ever more Coal, see how that goes. I think that in the U.K. we have done quite a lot for us to become a little more sustainable. Boris Johnson in his new found zeal wants us to rip out our Natural Gas boilers and replace them with Hydrogen, he is away with the little people, I do not buy it, I do not want a Hydrogen boiler at vast expense, especially as Australia is ripping ever more Coal from the ground to sell to Asia. Coal consumption in Asia is going up. Coal consumption in the U.K. is going down.
Michael, you’re nowhere nearly cynical enough about either “our” leaders or “our” media.
Extinction Rebellion is NOT a campaign to change people’s behaviour. It is civil disobedience aimed at governments.
In the Second World War, resources, especially food, were scarce due to the German U-boat attacks upon commercial shipping. The government did not “start a campaign” for people to be more frugal; it imposed rationing, and it took control of industry by commandeering it, so that wartime necessities were produced rather than luxuries.
Churchill had his faults but he is rightly respected for his leadership at a time of crisis. Johnson is a charlatan, a liar who is conning the British people; hydrogen is indeed a scam, to extract yet more money from ordinary people and to prop up the dying fossil fuel industry:
Blue Hydrogen. The greatest fossil fuel scam in history? YouTube, under 16 minutes.
There is a climate and ecological emergency. The polar ice is melting away rapidly; the only possible cause is more heat. Sea level is rising rapidly; the only possible cause is thermal expansion of the oceans, which can only possibly be caused by more heat. The largest living thing on Earth, the Great Barrier Reef – half of it is already dead.
What you think is “fervour” is in fact desperation. Thirty years of trying to influence governments democratically has failed – governments just batted it back to the people and refused to control the markets. Churchill would be spinning in his grave.
As Clark says, again and again and he is correct, we are being swayed in our thoughts and desires by those who wish us to consume more. Part of “The Trick” of the Industrial Revolution, was to get people to desire stuff they did not know they needed, an excellent example is tea and cakes/biscuits. Build factories to manufacture ceramic table ware. Import sugar from the Americas. Import tea from Asia. Construct a canal system. Build factories to manufacture biscuits/cakes.
But “The Trick” is to get people to desire this new life style. To get middle class people to desire beautiful crockery, so that it is displayed as well as used, that it is part of a set that can be added to. The tea comes from China, the Sugar from the West Indies, an aspiration life style is born. We have not looked back, we are “helped” to want ever more stuff, that we did not know we needed or wanted, much of this is promoted by television and now the Internet.Probably this is the greatest addiction of all time.
So, in my view, there are a few steps that should be taken but will not be taken.
Of the highest importance is to “encourage” less people to be born.
This is Number One.
Second, “encourage” people to NOT want an aspirational life style, repeatedly buying stuff.In my view both these will fail
Three, start a movement to show people how ill factory food is making them, “encourage” the hoards to learn cooking with basic food.
“Encourage” people to become more physically active and reduce their time on mobile phones/social media.
Four, plant more forests, protect the forests that are left, stop burning wood in power stations and calling it green.I think, the forests plan could work.
The less factory food and more physical exercise, must work or one quarter of the world will become obese and disabled.
At that point civilization will already be down the plug hole.“A second Cabinet Minister was struggling to find the funny side.
I’m sick of it. Every time I do a speech, they try to slide some more COP nonsense into it.
Something about telling people to do less washing-up, or eat less meat. It’s ridiculous.
A third Cabinet Minister was simply resigned: ‘COP’s turning into a CIRCUS. No 10 are trying to get a grip but it’s spiralling out of control.
They’re saying to foreign governments, ‘Can you keep the size of your delegations to a minimum?’ And they’ll be told, ‘OK, we’ll keep it down to 1,500 people.’ ‘
The UN Climate Change Conference, which opens in Glasgow on Sunday, is supposed to be the event that saves the planet.”
— Sunday MailWell, I do think Glasgow is completely over hyped.
China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia and India are all increasing the use of Coal.
Partly this is to grow their economies, so they can sell us more and more stuff, we should not desire.
It is a Junket of unimaginable proportions. This will be a monster Covid-Super-Spreader-Event. Surely other people can see that in the teeth of our fourth Wave, we should not be promoting this charlatan event?Keeping Freedom and health alive at Glasgow COP26
“Scotland’s health secretary says there is “ABSOLUTELY A RISK” of Covid cases rising after the COP26 summit in Glasgow.
Humza Yousaf said he expects to see a SPIKE in cases after 25,000 delegates descend on the city in a week’s time.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59027744
As I have been suggesting, a super-spreader event in the mindless making.
Nobody, as The U.K. enters the Fourth Wave, should be mixing in large groups of people from all over the Globe.
This is an example of Lunacy rit large.
Save the planet but die of covid. It should be quite obvious that this event should be withdrawn, at least until the pandemic has come to its conclusion.
As Clark has said, often threads come together. Here we have two threads converging, Global Warming and Pandemic.– “Import sugar from the Americas.”
And cultivate it with slaves from Africa.
When slavery was made illegal and the slaves had to be freed, the owners demanded compensation for that loss of their ‘property’. To pay it, governments took out loans from the private sector. Those loans were finally paid off in 2016, I think it was. So Black workers have been paying for the freedom of their ancestors in their tax bills. Or at least, they’ve been paying for the ones that survived.
The empire that began in Britain is unspeakably evil. It is yet to die. We are all still its slaves.
Michael, I think you will appreciate these lyrics:
Blood of the Past, by The Comet is Coming:
All the many corpses begin to speak,
What ignorance is cannot be argued over any more.
It is too late for pleading,
White picket dreams put you off the scent,
The world is screaming.
Rooted in a trivial concern, in interconnectedness,
In the need to make face and keep up,
And drown out the many voices within.
Imagine a culture that has, at its root
A more soulful connection to land and to lovers.
But I can hear the lie before you speak,
There is nothing but progress to eat,
And we are so fat and so hungry,
And the black wrists are cuffed in the pig van,
While the white shirt and tie in the tube car, distractional picture,
Pictures of beer and guilt about urges,
Sexual distrust and abandoned to nothingness,
Give me something I can nail myself to,
Give me a sharply-dressed talking head
Who has something about them I trust and despise.
And what of it anyway?
These windows don’t open,
They were designed to stay closed.
Shower, smoothie, coffee, commute,
Check the internet, never stop, never stop.
There is a scar on the soul of the world and it needs you to look!
The blood of the past is here, it remains,
The blood of the murders, the bodies like sacks leaking brain,
All stacked, chest aback on the planes,
It remains to acknowledge without guilt,
To accept without condition,
And to listen when other people tell you how you have behaved.
Truth is, it’s for us to feel and be moved.
But I hear the clatter of bone against steel, it is coming,
It will not be stilled,
It is there in the air,
Scorched white,
The reflection of sunlight on glass bouncing back into sunlight
And glass bouncing back, industrialized.
Denial, business as usual.
So roll your eyes, shake your head, turn away and call me names.
I’m okay with that, too proud,
Unable to listen, we keep speaking,
Moated by blood, unable to notice ourselves,
Unable to stop and unwilling to learn.Michael, I agree that COP26 is daft. It shouldn’t even be necessary. Everyone knows what needs to be done, they should all just get on and do it, there should be no need to negotiate over which country does most, it is so urgent that they should all just do everything they can.
The real reason for COP26 is for national governments to argue about economic and financial matters, which seems to be all that politics is really about. The decisions that COP26 will (probably mostly fail to) make should be made by engineers and scientists, not politicians. It is engineers and scientists, not politicians, who know how to supply the most energy with the least emissions. Politicians just get in the way by each trying to put the least money into the engineering as possible.
But despite being paid somewhat more than the “lower” workers, engineers, scientists, doctors etc. are just lackeys in the current order of things. They just implement the things that the “uppermost” orders decide to pay for, just the same as any other workers.
Social scientists have a role too. Social science has shown that beyond the basics, more stuff is not what makes people happy. Community, equality, a just society, fairness, freedom, education, security, connection to nature – these are the sorts of things that make people happiest.
Whatever, the politicians have decided to go ahead, so I need to be there – so that, rather like you put it elsewhere – so that they know that we the people are watching their every move 🙂
Correction.
The poetry I quoted above, October 24, 23:12, is by Kae Tempest –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kae_Tempest
It was written for the track Blood of the Past at the request of the band The Comet is Coming, and appears on the album Trust in the Lifeforce of the Deep Mystery.
With my apologies to Kae Tempest for my omission.
