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“Covid: pick a side”
I picked. I’m for humans and other animals, and against SARS-CoV-2.
Clark, I too pick humans to win over SARS-CoV-2
I guess the U.K. will win, even though we have massive numbers of people catching Delta-covid.
I doubt South America, Africa or Asia, will be as lucky.“Covid: pick a side”
No. There are no sides.
In my opinion, it’s a situation where if one country “loses” everyone loses.
Israel has a million Pfizer vaccines due to expire at end of July and has tried unsuccessfully to swap them with the UK. Palestine also refused the swap. What happens to these vaccines?Covid 19 is a good example of how science is misused and distorted for primary commercial gain and prestige and power. It was a chance where all countries producing vaccines worked together and all claims to patents were renounced and all the pharmaceutical industry aim to mass produce vaccines to vaccinate the world as soon as possible. But instead the rich pharmaceutical countries want to hold on to their patents and get as much money as they can. Other political games have also been played with the supplies and licensing of vaccines.
Michael norton, it’s not so much winning or losing as degree of damage and attrition. If the Great Fire of London had been treated the way most governments treat covid it’d still be burning today, always burning somewhere but with a city-wide flare up every six months or so. “Just contain it enough that we don’t quite fill the hospitals”. Covid is like fire or rat infestation; outbreaks will happen, but the sooner you respond the easier they are to stamp out and the less damage accumulates.
Vaccination is helping but so far it doesn’t look like a solution. 87% of the UK population now have antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 but infections are again going up like a rocket, so Westminster’s initial “herd immunity” (non)plan couldn’t ever have worked. We’ve had a million with long covid; over half are still reporting problems. This could keep grinding us down until we stamp it out.
eSARS-Cov2 is here to stay, I am afraid. No amount of optimism is going to eradicate it now. This train has left the station. The only way to have eradicated the virus would have been a short sharp proper lockdown with proper quarantine and isolation, proper financial support for those being isolated, ban on travel applied simultaneously across the world.
Watching what is happening now with Euro 2020 you would think there is no raging pandemic, fans travelling around Europe spreading the delta variant efficiently, footballers group hugging and so on. Watching all this with rising numbers and politicians saying that all restrictions will be lifted by 19th July is like reliving a slow motion car crash.Clark, I fear for Europe, they have virtually unlimited free movement of people, they think as covid -Alpha has eased off, it is all over.
Covid-Delta is upticking, especially Spain, as they have far less vaccinations and far less testing and as they have released many rules, it will take off like many rockets – soon.SA, I can’t see China ever accepting that argument. That’s nearly a fifth of the world’s population; barely a problem for them since April last year.
Think of it like fire, which also spreads fast. Societies that take proper precautions and have vigilant fire departments will always do better than those who try to arrange an ongoing supply of fireproof suits to the entire population.
Clark, we are being asked to pick a side.
I think that from 19/07/2021 the side the U.K. administration will pick,
will be herd immunity.
That, probably was always their plan.
As I understand, herd immunity is a state whereby the virus has very little places to go.
Meaning many old or immunocompromised people have already died, tens of thousands have been vaccinated, the young can mostly handle the virus.
So, it will be open sesame on the nineteenth.“I can’t see China ever accepting that argument.”
Even if they don’t accept it what can China do about it? They cannot enforce their methods on the entire world’s population. I have to agree with SA, the genie is out of the bottle. Looking at the UK graphs hospitalisations and ventilated patients are about the same as they were in the last week of September last year with four times the number of positive cases. I don’t know if that reflects a reason for optimism or better testing or that cases are higher in the younger age groups. Deaths are at about half the level they were at that time.
Vaccinations appear to be having some effect but there are caveats. Globally vaccinations are not rolled out equally and those areas with little vaccination will become a reservoir for infections. There is a question as to how long immunity afforded by vaccines will last. Even in the UK with one of the highest vaccination levels there is a large pool of infected people. Delta will mutate into epsilon, zeta etc and the larger the pools of infections are the more likely that is to happen.
In the midst of all this we are globally at a time where co-operation between countries is almost at it lowest setting ever. This is a catastrophic failing on behalf of Euro/USA/UK governments. It’s mind bogglingly short sighted. What a bunch of assholes.
On thinking more about that, those countries with higher levels of vaccination and high numbers of infected people may well be encouraging the virus to mutate into some form more resistant to vaccine mediated immunty.
on a tangental note, China has been certified as malaria free by the WHO. Perhaps some of the techniques they learned have been applied to SARS-COV-2.
“At the same time, we are also eager to learn what lessons we can from the achievements of other cultures, and welcome helpful suggestions and constructive criticism. We will not, however, accept sanctimonious preaching from those who feel they have the right to lecture us. “
MN: “Clark, we are being asked to pick a side.”
Only an idiot would make such a request, and why should anyone comply with it?
Only an idiot thinks everything is a great chance to make it an “Us Vs Them” fight, a chance to divide individuals, families and countries, so that one “side” can go slinging insults and build a case against the “other”.
You would have to be even more stupid to be so committed to your “side” that you’re willing to use any propaganda, lies, highly dubious sources, pseudo-science, and even jump into bed with deeply unpleasant far-right movements – just because you think it furthers your “side”. Even to the point of complete dishonesty, stating provable falsehoods without having the decency to admit it once it’s so blatantly apparent. This is what anti-vaxxers and denialists do as a matter of course.
It’s really sad that such idiots are so common.
“On thinking more about that, those countries with higher levels of vaccination and high numbers of infected people may well be encouraging the virus to mutate into some form more resistant to vaccine mediated immunity.”
Exactly, perfect breeding ground for mutations. Although it may be that each further mutation may be attenuated such that it is not lethal, it may still remain highly contagious and cause a high level of morbidity and sequelae such as long covid. And of course the interchange of variants from different countries may result in hybrid variants that are more virulent and more vaccine resistant on the other hand. It really doesn’t look good.
glenn-nl
It really does beggar belief that such people exist and feel not only so much more knowledgeable than the scientists, and are so patronizing to the sheeple. There is no limit to self delusion.
J only visits to tell us how badly done by he is because we do not take his word for what he can clearly see because he gleaned this insight, not visible to us, from self appointed pundits who have often not even worked in the field they comment on.Portugal
“Portuguese health authorities this week reported a “vertiginous” rise in the prevalence of the delta variant, which accounted for only 4% of cases in May but almost 56% in June. The country is reporting its highest number of daily cases since February”
Almost certainly from when Portugal was put on the U.K. Green-List
The U.K. has very high rates of Delta as there is a large population of ethic Indians living in U.K.
U.K. residents get Green Light to travel to Portugal, guess what, they give Delta to Portugese residents.In all fairness to UK, Portugal is just as culpable. They reason that the tourist revenue supersedes the risk of delta variant transmission. It’s bizarre. As was mentioned before by I can’t remember whom, if the brits of WW2 generation were to comment, they’d be disgusted with the selfishness that abounds. The world has enough resources to feed, shelter and heat everyone. All previous plagues, pandemics and other calamities eventually burned out and we survived. We survived by battening down the hatches and just subsisting for a little while. Why can’t we all do the same now?
I can’t stand Boris, nor would I want that he persevere for years but if he had the balls to stand up and say something along the lines of the “blood, sweat and tears” speech he’d be untouchable, at least for a while. The west is addicted to money. They’ll mug a granny just for that. USA culture has a lot to answer for. I almost despair but there are still stalwarts of integrity. CM being one such.
Michael norton, July 4, 08:37
– “I fear for Europe, they have virtually unlimited free movement of people…”
https://www.endcoronavirus.org/green-zones
In a year of suffering and losses, many countries have made their own experiments in how to deal with COVID-19.
The results of these experiments are known:- Having COVID-19 under control reduces suffering and losses.
- No country has COVID-19 under control without strong travel restrictions.
- No country has COVID-19 under control by trying to keep the numbers at a non-zero threshold.
- It is easier to get back to zero if you react fast to new outbreaks.
- It is not too late to try to get COVID-19 under control and it doesn’t take long.
Let’s learn from the countries that succeeded. Go for zero – with a green-zone strategy.
This UK government’s hypocrisy is blatant. They were elected on a mandate to “control our borders”. They have a valid reason to control the border that could not be dismissed as xenophobia. Even Corbyn, then Leader of the Opposition was calling for border control; he would have whipped the Labour Party to support it, so they had an open goal. They refused to control the border.
Back in February last year it was obvious that covid was coming in through the airports. Before anyone I knew had covid, and before anyone connected to anyone I knew, the ‘news’ media was peppered with reports of politicians, celebrities and sports stars contracting covid – the jet set. Around March 16 2020 either Taiwan or South Korea reported more covid cases among incoming travelers than from domestic transmission; the friend of mine who mentioned this to me dismissed it as xenophobia, but I pointed out that they were doing more testing than anywhere else.
The corporate media continually raises concerns for “Britons planning overseas holidays”, but according to surveys, that’s only 5% of the UK population.
ET –
– “As was mentioned before by I can’t remember whom, if the brits of WW2 generation were to comment, they’d be disgusted with the selfishness that abounds.”
I think that was probably me; a few days ago I mentioned the transformation of the UK economy for WWII. My (adoptive) parents both served in WWII. Mum operated barrage balloons in southern England, Dad was an aircraft engineer in Burma. They taught me frugality, and make do and mend.
It seems highly likely that Delta is about to take off like many rockets, in Europe.
France tests less than half those who are tested in the U.K.
If you don’t test, you are unlikely to find.ET – “Even if they don’t accept it what can China do about it?”
They can sit there doing fine until the rest of the world’s governments come to their senses.
A lot depends on how the vaccination programme works out. If it works then China, New Zealand, Australia, Isle of Man etc. gain only a year over other countries. If new variants get past the vaccines, and/or the vaccines fail to stop long covid and/or ongoing waves of infection, eventually all governments will follow suit.
It would seem that herd immunity is what the U.K. government are now going for, maybe 10,000 new Delta cases a day, in the School Summer Holidays, when they think we might just be able to cope, rather than the Winter, when we very well might not cope.
19/07/2021 are restrictions to be gone, other than self limiting behaviour.I meant the U.K. government are imagining a range from 10,000 to 100,000 cases a day after 19/07/2021.
Germany tests three and a half times fewer people than are daily tested in U.K. yet they have a larger population,
yet Germany have also had a huge number of cases and deaths?
When this started out, it was all about test, test, test.Again, think of fire. You could ‘test’ ie. observe for fire in the middle of the Fire of London, but the results wouldn’t tell you anything that wasn’t already obvious.
Conversely, when there isn’t widespread fire, observing for outbreaks is essential precaution, and highly practical because it enables you to extinguish them before they spread.
For trace-and-test to be effective, you need far more tests than infections, and the majority of those tests need to be well targeted. That is achievable when there are only a handful of new infections per day, as China and Australia are demonstrating. The UK has never achieved that enviable position. We were fairly close last summer, but Boris chose to give 37 billion to his friends while pretending to spend it on trace-and-test.
The UK tests a lot in order to predict hospital demand, but there are so many infections that only 30% to 50% are ever detected; the origin of most infections go unaccounted for.
In Australia and China, a single positive test triggers immediate local lockdown and local mass testing, until every case is accounted for, further trace-and-test turning up 100% negatives. This takes around a week and then lockdown is lifted. As soon as infection is detected, people need to be kept still to stop it spreading while its extent is being traced. The net result is that citizens spend on average about one hundredth of the time under lockdown as Europeans.
