Engineering Prof releases draft report on 9/11 collapse of WTC Bldg 7 in NYC


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  • #47008
    Dave

      Dorian, your picture in the attic must becoming a fearful sight!

      #47009
      Kempe

        Dear God are we going all over this old ground again?

        What part of progressive collapse are Truthers still having problems with?

        https://bsbgroup.com/blog/progressive-collapse-of-structures/

        #47012
        Dave

          That link showed the twin towers. Once you look at them, their sheer size, the idea they would completely disintegrate into dust in seconds after being hit by a plane becomes absurd.

          #47013
          Clark

            “..and if they’d been ten times as tall, they’d have been ten times as strong; any kid who’s built a tower of blocks knows it’s the short ones that are difficult, they just get easier the taller you build them. That’s why bungalows are more expensive than skyscrapers.”

            The taller they come, the harder they fall.

            C’mon Dave, tell us what you really think; you know your mates will never quote you on it.

            #47014
            Clark

              Dave, each of the Twin Towers was like a hundred cheap supermarkets stacked in a vertical frame, each one’s heavy concrete floor laid on the fragile corrugated roof of the one below. The top ten of them all fell onto the rest below, smashing through floor after floor until all that churning rubble pulverised itself against the ground.

              #47015
              Clark

                Are you suggesting that someone has sold their soul, Dave?

                #47017
                Dave

                  As you can clearly see they aren’t collapsing as you suggest but disintegrating/exploding into dust at an even speed despite the strength of the towers (to hold what’s above) increasing towards the base. At least those blaming “direct energy weapons” are less audacious than you, as they can’t be seen (requires an act of faith to believe) whereas your theory defies us to believe our very eyes.

                  #47028
                  Clark

                    “…at an even speed despite the strength of the towers (to hold what’s above) increasing towards the base”

                    Gerry, would you go over these points? Dave thinks I’ve sold my soul.

                    “disintegrating/exploding into dust at an even speed […],your theory defies us to believe our very eyes”

                    No, trust your own eyes; there are plenty of images. The vast majority of dust welled up as the internal collapses pulverised themselves against the ground. The dust spread all over Manhattan, leaving larger wreckage full of rubble, and sections of steel with all the bolts wrenched out. Just what you’d expect.

                    Look Dave, there are millions of things that you or I might have difficulty imagining like photosynthesis, DNA replication, nuclear fusion, supernova or plate tectonics, but if that meant they didn’t happen there’d be no life on Earth.

                    #47029
                    Clark

                      Nullius in verba.

                      #47030
                      Kempe

                        Well they didn’t completely disintegrate into dust. What of the thousands of tons of steel and concrete removed to landfill or re-cycled?

                        #47031
                        Clark

                          There are two high tides each day, and it’s “hard to imagine” how the Moon’s gravitation could raise the one on the side of Earth furthest from the Moon. So can we conclude that for hundreds of years, the global scientific community have been lying to everyone to conceal the Truth that really, tides are raised by SPECTRE’s energy beams?

                          #47032
                          Clark

                            Kempe, while we’re all waiting for Gerry and David Chandler, what do you make of my “the fire-fighters did it” theory? It could help explain various odd things that people said, as well as FEMA’s unusual steel samples and WTC7’s remarkably orderly collapse.

                            #47033
                            Clark

                              “When Danny Jowenko made the comment about “they must have worked hard” he was being sarcastic”

                              Can you be sure? Almost the next thing he said was, resignedly, “I can’t explain it”. To have been sarcastic, his earlier comment would have had to have been based on an explanation.

                              #47040
                              Dave

                                And don’t forget the passport!

                                #47041
                                Dave

                                  A gold medal for gall!

                                  #47043
                                  Clark

                                    Truther logic – “Looks like a passport being handed in was a set-up. Therefore, claims that the Towers turned to dust are true, so an energy weapon must have been fired at the towers. Therefore all the photos showing rubble and steel wreckage were faked, so there must have been an overarching conspiracy of almost supernatural power. Which proves that the passport was indeed definitely seeded, and anyone who seems unconvinced by all this must be an agent.”

                                    #47044
                                    Clark

                                      Truther argument method: “…and when you’ve run out of even illogical arguments, always round off with a derogatory imputation.”

                                      #47045
                                      Clark

                                        Dave, are you the same commenter as on the 9/11 Post, who described the collapses of the Twin Towers as “Jewish lightning”, and recommended The Jewish Plot against America by Victor Thorn, author of “The Holocaust Hoax Exposed: Debunking the 20th Century’s Biggest Lie”?

                                        #47062
                                        Dave

                                          If someone in a month long relationship takes out very expensive life insurance on their new partner and adds a clause adding a special bonus pay-out if their partner dies in a freak accident a month before they die in a freak accident, it would look suspicious, especially if they did it twice!

                                          #47066
                                          Clark

                                            I’ll take that as a yes, then. You consider a Holocaust denier a reliable source of facts, presumably.

                                            Whoever leased the WTC site would have been required to take out insurance. A clause in the insurance contract required Silverstein to rebuild in the event of payout, and rebuild he did. You can show me that he rebuilt for much less than the payout, can you?

                                            #47069
                                            Dave

                                              What is a “holocaust denier” and what is “Jewish lightning”?

                                              #47071
                                              Node

                                                9/11/Silvio, thanks for starting this thread.

                                                Gerry, thanks for your expert input. Delighted to have you here.

                                                Everybody else, please don’t turn this into a slagging match. If you’re interested in the truth, excercise restraint, don’t respond to baiting.

                                                We’ve been waiting for the release of this UAF report for 4 years. I was beginning to think the prof had been nobbled. Now here it is, facts, figures, opensource modelling, and devastating conclusions. This is hard science. It can not be dismissed as unsubstantiated theorising. The authors show ‘their workings’. They say, “This is how we arrived at the conclusion that NIST is wrong. If you disagree, demonstrate where our reasoning is wrong.”

                                                I look forward to the next few months.

                                                #47072
                                                Node

                                                  Kempe,

                                                  Nist merely assert that progressive collapse caused the fall of WTC7. They didn’t model it, or even describe it. They offer no proof.

                                                  OTOH, the UAF report demonstrates why it <i>couldn’t</i> have been progressive collapse, and offers for examination all the modelling, engineering, mathematical and physical evidence on which they base their conclusion.

                                                  It doesn’t matter whether progressive collapse can sometimes cause the collapse of some buildings. We now have <i>evidence</i> that it couldn’t have been the cause of WTC7’s fall. Now it is up to you to refute that evidence, or accept it.

                                                  #47078
                                                  Clark

                                                    Please answer my question first; are you the same commenter as that Dave on the 9/11 Post?

                                                    #47079
                                                    Clark

                                                      Gerry, I second Node’s welcome; I hope you return soon, and I hope David Chandler will join us too.

                                                      Node, beware of, er, over-optimism*. As Mike Ruppert warned so long ago, the building wreckage is no longer available, and we should be on our guard against assuming that WTC7 entirely fulfilled its specification in the design documents. Further (and I’m unlikely to read the UAF report in detail) I wonder if their simulation correctly predicts the observed asymmetry ie. the early collapse of one end of the penthouse.

                                                      (* I’m not sure that “optimism” is the right word for actually hoping that the Twin Towers were pre-rigged with explosives throughout the buildings).

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