Latest News › Forums › Discussion Forum › (Is this really ) How Capitalism is Killing Itself?
- This topic has 32 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 6 months ago by Ba’al Zevul.
-
AuthorPosts
-
Ba’al Zevul
I’m not familiar with it. Will take a look. Though I have for some time assumed that the utility of money as a means of exchange is now being nullified by its commodification as saleable debt. And if that’s opaque, I’m very sorry. I’m feeling my way through a minefield populated by German philosophers and economists…
Ba’al ZevulI am wondering if the transitional worker’s state was really what he hoped for. Rather that he envisioned it as one possible outcome of an evolutionary process as capitalism ate itself. His ‘dialectical materialism’ was after all predicated on ongoing change, with advances, reverses and changes of direction, complexly interlinked and probably unpredictable. He was looking at the trend of the time. It may have been Engels – no time to wade through Holy Writ right now, so you may want to check it out – who advocated complete separation of politics and economics: let the market get on with it, and let government deal with the social consequences. State Thatcherism?
Ba’al ZevulAs in 1848, wars and rumours of European populist uprisings have now made it to the BBC. If the working/non property-owning classes ever felt marginalised and pissed off, immigration is the issue which may light the fuse:
Phil the ex frogDavid Graeber – Debt
PDF: http://radicalanthropologygroup.org/sites/default/files/pdf/class_text_126.pdf
Radio 4: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b054zdp6/episodes/guide
Loony@ Phil – The special interest groups that have hijacked society are to be found in the FIRE (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate) sector. Politicians and the media are, for the most part, paid lackeys of this sector. All of economic policy has been subverted to meet the perceived interests of this group.
The entrenchment of privilege is a common theme throughout history and in other places and at other times has variously resided in the Priest Class, the Aristocracy, the Military and the bureaucratic classes. Sometimes society just collapses under the weight of its own internal contradictions (e.g. USSR) and sometimes the ruling elites are removed by violence (e.g.French and Russian revolutions)
What is different this time is that today’s hijackers have taken control of substantially the entire world and almost all economies and societies are experiencing similar problems.
Modern society is complex – maybe too complex for any theory. Marxism basically assumes that under capitalism wages are lower than they otherwise would be in order generate an unearned surplus for the capitalist. This is partially true – but the capitalist takes risk and could lose all of his money if his venture fails. If it succeeds he is rewarded via the profit function. The opportunity for both loss and profit motivates the capitalist to try his best to succeed. This kind of arrangement is conducive to innovation. It is also wide open to abuse – the evidence of which is all around us.
Loony@ Phil – There are many problems. One of which is that population continues to rise and yet, due to technology, demand for labor is falling. How does this fit with Marxism or indeed any other ism?
What are these surplus people supposed to do?
In theory China is capable of satisfying global demand for substantially all manufactured products. How will people outside of China earn money to pay for the product of Chinese labor? China is unlikely to convert itself into a slave economy for the world – why would it?
How is Europe supposed to continue to fund its all encompassing social security system? Taking money from the rich is not likely to be an answer as most of their wealth is purely fictional. (If you own a $50 million house in London and you take money from all of these people than there is no-one left to buy the $50 million house and hence the house is no longer worth $50 million).
If there more people, less jobs, and an inability to continue funding social security then there appears to be a problem. Remember not all problems have solutions.
Phil the ex frogYes, terrifying.
Warmongering spooks and pity whoring stars. Just more directing of anger against the weak. Ignore the thieving rich! Hate the darkies instead!
I don’t see the insurrection of which Dearlove warns. Just more bullshit. This whips up fear/hatred at the same time as using that fear/hatred as the reason for more state persecution. Vote for persecution! Fucking horrible propaganda. Capitalism turning hard right as a defence against insurrection?
Ba’al ZevulI suspect it’s not as simple as that. And, while I accept that the rich nations have made a stick with which to beat themselves in creating hells from which people justifiably flee, I don’t buy the moral oneupmanship which asserts that everyone has a right to move anywhere they like and demand instant acceptance. Uncontrolled immigration fuels the far Right’s fire. Maybe it shouldn’t, but it does. What Dearlove said is verifiable from history, and current escalating violence associated with immigration in Europe has been poorly reported in the MSM here. There is very little mileage for the oppressors of the masses (my tongue is slightly in my cheek) if they demonise the cheap labour source represented by immigrants. Hating brown people isn’t part of the official agenda, IOW.
-
AuthorPosts