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I would be keen to hear glenn explain exactly what he means by ” Climate Denialists”
I agree with the following:
greenhouse effect
global warming
climate change
Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere enhances the greenhouse effect
Carbon dioxide has been increasing in the atmosphere
Humans are contributing to an increase of Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
partly that is caused by the consumption of fossil fuels
greening effect
about 70% of the greening effect comes from increased Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
The world has become slightly warmer since the Industrial Revolution started burning Coal.
There is a very modest increase in the height of the seas.
so from those points am I a “climate denialist”?However, I do not expect the world to become unlivable for humans because of a slight increase in temperature caused by burning coal/Oil/Natural Gas.
Michael, to this new message coming from the old denialists* that more CO2 in the atmosphere is just what Earth needs, I say:
– If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!!
* If you check out who is pushing this “greening is great” idea, you will find that they were contradicting ALL the things you just listed only five years ago, despite them ALL having been proven by 1990. This makes these people and groups liars. “Greening is great” is merely their latest manipulation, because their old ones have lost credibility. There is no way they or us could know what the overall effects of greening will be. It’s a vast experiment upon the planet we are dependent upon, and if it turns out bad, there is no way of undoing it.
They are also the people and organisations pushing for more of everything you oppose – more commercialism, more flights, more runways, more concreting over everything, more mining, more using everything up – because that’s how they make their vast fortunes.
In fact they still are pushing some of those old denialist ideas. Check out the other videos on the CDN YouTube channel that your earlier comment linked to.
And “Lord” Mackinlay, whom I caught telling blatant climate lies on a video you linked, wanted to reopen an old airport so he could run his own airline. He must be pretty well off, eh?
As for the “slight temperature increase”, I keep mentioning that “global average temperature” is a technical term, completely unlike the temperatures on our wall thermometers or in the daily weather forecasts.
To give you some idea, I estimate that the “slight temperature increase” since 1960 is approximately equal to the heat produced by ten billion Hiroshima bombs. Yes, billion with a B. Don’t you think so much energy is likely to have effects beyond a slight increase in “global average temperature”? Like shifting entire climactic patterns, increasing storms, moving more water about etc? Are you sure it’s entirely safe to add so much heat to the biosphere?
Because if you’re not entirely sure, remember, it’s like accidentally putting salt in your tea – it can’t be undone.
Clark,
in the olden days the same person ( mostly) would take the temperature at the same times of day, in the shade in a
Stevenson screen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenson_screen
Apparently we now used rotating spacecraft to laser beam the surface.
The Stevensen screen was above the surface and in shade.
On the ground the temperature will be higher.
There are grounds for imagining, the two readings/recordings are not the same.I would be interested in knowing how they work out the temperature of forests.
As I have said, in an Equatorial forest the temperature is almost always about 31 degrees C.
If you clearfell that rainforest,
the temperature will be hotter in the daylight.
I do not know, once the forest is clearfelled if the temperature would be colder at night, I am assuming it would be.What, I am wondering is, are these scientists just taking temperatures from open landsurfaces.
You could say that temperature is mostly, incredibly changeable.
Walk through a gorge, in sunlight it could be very warm, move to the shade and it will be much cooler.
Walk over an open field in strong sunshine, even in early Spring and it will feel very warm ( unless windy), move to the edge of the field shaded by a hedge and it will seem cooler.So, I guess, i am asking, how can “They” be so sure it is one plus degrees warmer now, than three hundred years ago?
Move around your locality and you will notice the temperature is different, it is not the same.I am not saying it is not very slightly warmer but to a normal person, any claimed increase is imperceptible.
Grief, Michael. Why are you falling for chestnuts like that? Haven’t you heard of calibration? Don’t you think scientists have? It’s as if I assumed tree surgeons had never heard of saws or ladders!
All you’ve pointed out there is that measurement techniques improve all the time!
Look, do you think the measurements of polar ice loss are appreciably wrong? I make it that there’s about half as much Arctic ice, averaged throughout its yearly cycles, as the stable level before it started melting. Without looking it up, that was when I was middle aged. It’s a simple secondary school text book problem to calculate the latent heat required to melt that much ice.
If that’s no good, there are dozens of other effects you can look up. Want a list?
Is your van old enough to have an engine temperature gauge? OK, maybe you didn’t trust it. But you’d have stopped if steam started coming out from under the bonnet, right? To minimise engine damage. Or would you keep going after half the coolant had gone, so you weren’t late for the job?
If the temperature increase, that is claimed by scientists/governments, is imperceptible to normal people,
why is is so important to halt all modern life.I do accept that Carbon dioxide has been accumulating in the air, since Coal started being the main fuel for Industry.
We have seemed to have recently agreed, that an area about double the size of the continental U.S.A. ( I guess that means not including Alaska) of extra greening has happened, probably since the end of World War Two or roughly when Globalisation took off, the bringing of China into the umbrella of Globalisation.
That all might be about to change.
70% of the recent extra greening, is now being attributed to an increase in CO2 in the air.
This is very noticeable, very measurable.
But convincing the public that the world is getting dangerously warm, that is a very difficult ask.
Especially when, almost all governments as so conflicted, so two-tier.
The U.K. government wants Net Zero by 2030 (Electricity supply).
Yet the government also say their main priority is GROWTH.
More theme parks, more airports, more runways, more motorways, one and a half million more houses.
More and More and More.
Members of government, yes, including Ed Milliband are constantly flying around the world at our expense.
They promote wars.
They want wars.
Yet pensioners must eat less meat and disconnect their gas boilers to die of the cold in the Northern Winter.
Save energy, save water, do not drive anywhere unless you can belong to the Elite with chauffeur driven Rangerovers.
I smell one law for the Elite and a different law for the underlings.Michael,
If the temperature increase is “imperceptible” how come the high mountain glaciers have been rapidly melting and retreating over the last 60 years?
Shibboleth
good point.
I love walking, especially in hills/mountains but I live on the flat.
I don’t expect many people live in high/steep mountains.I think I have heard, that in Antarctica, one half is losing ice, whilst the other half is gaining ice.
I do not know but I expect the tree line of the Alps is slowly creeping higher.
China and India have had remarkable extra greening, most likely that is because of government ideas of planting forests.
Apparently The Sahel is greening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahel
That is partly the extra CO” in the air but most probably, more importantly, that local people are using programmes to hand dig and hand plant suitable trees, to re-green The Sahel.
These programmes, seem to be very useful.
Up to about 6,000 years ago, the Sahara was much wetter.
African humid period.
As they say, climate changes.Michael, they have tens of thousands of measuring stations across the globe. Some are in forests, some in the air, some in desserts, some in cities and also ships and buoys measure ocean temps. From NASA:
“Think of it this way. A temperature reading taken on a mountaintop will be cooler than one taken in a nearby valley, just as the temperature under the shade of a tree will be cooler than a reading taken in a sunlight-drenched parking lot just feet away. Temperature can vary significantly over relatively short distances.
But the temperature change between two nearby locations is remarkably consistent, said Nathan Lenssen, a climate scientist at the Colorado School of Mines and the National Center for Atmospheric Research. “When it’s 2 degrees warmer than normal in Denver, it’s going to be 2 degrees warmer than normal at the top of Bear Peak.”
It’s about average temperature change over time, like decades. It’s not about some place having a nicer summer’s day this year than last.
Another link explaining how they go about it.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-how-do-scientists-measure-global-temperature/
ET
thank you.How to convince the 99% of normal people, that they should eat much less meat, they should rip their Natural Gas out
and install Electrically powered radiators/Heat Pumps. They should give up their present diesel car and purchase an electric car or take the bus. If these 99% of people in the world cannot feel it is getting much hotter and they see their betters behaving in the most disgusting ways, punching the shit out of a constituent, abusing children, pretending to be a qualified solicitor/when not.
Pretending to be an economist/when not.
Taking freebies.
Lying, cheating and abusing everything, almost all the time, yet talking down to the underlings, like they are simple.
Why can’t the peasants believe in Global Boiling, what is wrong with them, they are Untermenschen.
They do not believe. They are unbelievers, they should be forced to accept that which we, The Elite, tell them what to believe or we will mightily punish them.
How dare they try and use their own senses to try and understand the world.
The World is as we tell them, nothing more and nothing less, oh, till we change our Elite minds and decide the world is different but they will not be allowed to know we have changed our minds.
1984You will believe that which we, The Elite tell you or you will have a cage of rats strapped to your head, in the end you will believe, shortly before we put you to death.
– If the temperature increase, that is claimed by scientists/governments, is imperceptible to normal people,
why is is so important to halt all modern life.As I keep saying, the “global average temperature” is just a technical term. It’s just a way of getting a smooth line on a graph, out of millions of things that are changing. It’s a way of gauging the rate at which excess heat is being gathered. It’s a way of knowing where we stand in this one aspect, climate, of an immense catastrophe of human making – the destruction and degradation of the natural world upon which we are all dependent.
Michael, you’re absolutely right that the increase in “global average temperature” doesn’t matter in and of itself – just like you don’t really care what your van’s engine temperature is. But as a mechanic will tell you, if it increases too much, the piston rings will weld themselves to the cylinder bores, and you’ll have an enormous bill to get it fixed.
This is a great analogy, because the “engine average temperature” won’t have remotely approached the melting point of steel by the time your engine seizes. The engine won’t be a pool of metal under the van. But your engine is fucked nonetheless.
“I don’t expect many people live in high/steep mountains.”
What does that have to do with the melting glaciers?
On a differernt front.
U.K. Court determines that a woman is a woman and a man is a man.– “I smell one law for the Elite and a different law for the underlings.”
Me too.
It was particularly pongy during the lockdowns, with all the salaried classes on furlough enjoying their big gardens, and the precariat cooped in thier flats and having to risk infection by an unknown virus at work.
– “U.K. Court determines that a woman is a woman and a man is a man.”
Well I hope they don’t empower police to start looking down underwear or taking genetic samples.
Not sure what they’re going to do about the inbetweenies either. Deny their existence? Hammer square pegs into round holes?
precariat
Clark, I had to look that up, new to me, but very easy to understand and to sympathise.Many of my friends have had good jobs ( not me) and have been able to help their offspring by partially funding them going to college and a bit of a leg-up on their first home purchase.
However, most don’t have the benefit of a university educated parent, who has held down a long standing job with sickness benefit and a pension, therefore, these families cannot help any offspring, spring up the ladder or those offspring have to be remarkable in their application and abilities.
I think thigs progressed, after
The Second World War.
Things are going from bad to worse now in the U.K.
The decline is palpable, it is everywhere outside of the gated communities.One of my best friends, died of a brain tumor, last year.
He did not go to university but he started at ICI at 16 as a tea boy/runner.
He only ever worked for ICI ( no longer exists) he ended up near the top of the purchasing department buying minerals from all over the world.
Sometimes he would ring me and say he was in The Alps. I’d ask him what it was like, he answered, “I don’t know, I am in a factory”
Anyway, a couple of decades ago, he used to say, you now needed a degree, just to be the tea boy/runner.What I am saying, is the after war, the age of stability has gone.
There is no certainty, any more.
One day, Up could be Down. Left could be Right or Right could be Left.
A Man could be a Woman, a Woman could be a Man.
From today, it has back flipped, now a Man is a Man and a Woman is a Woman.
Who knows what they will want us to believe tomorrow.
One day it is good that China has been drawn into Globalisation.
One day it is good for China to buy our Steel Plants, next day it is bad.
I cannot predict next week.
Can any government predict next week?Net Zero Stealth taxes on the cards.
Express
“He added: “We want to at least ask the question – whether or not we can allocate costs more progressively,” noting that any attempt to “do something related to income” would be logistically challenging.Economists use the term “progressive” to mean people pay higher tax rates as their income increases.
The proposal could be controversial because it would amount to a stealth income tax to fund net zero.”
I think NET ZERO is ghastly.
However it seems wrong to expect people with large incomes to pay more for Water/Gas/Coal?Electricity.1) Get rid of standing charges.
2) If more money is needed, do that on income tax.
“I think NET ZERO is ghastly”
Yes, I agree. It should be simply ZERO when it related to the combustion of fossil fuels for human convenience..
Michael,
Income Tax does not pay for government spending.
Re: ‘Not sure what they’re going to do about the inbetweenies either.’
Under UK law, Clark, everyone is either male or female, in most cases based on what your genitals looked like shortly after birth.
