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@ Clark
“The chief of the fire department denied all knowledge of the ‘phone call Larry Silverstein spoke of”.
Do you think the fire chief is anti-Semitic?
I don’t know him. What do you think?
Ben Goldacre’s God has spoken, again. Dr John Ioannidis’s latest study searched for cov sars 2 antibodies in a sample of 3300 people in Santa Clara County, Califoirnia. Based on the results he estimates that between 2.5 and 4.2% of the county’s population have been infected. “We realised that the number of infected people is somewhere between 50 and 85 times more than had been documented. Immediately that means that the infection fatality rate, the probability of dying if you are infected, diminishes by 50 to 85-fold because the denominator in the calculation becomes 50 to 85-fold bigger. The data suggests that covid19 has an infection fatality rate that is in the same ballpark as seasonal influenza.”
Video: Dr John Ioannidis — Covid fatality rate “in the ballpark of seasonal influenza” (OffGuardian)
MOD, I don’t know why this video has embedded rather than just shown the link. I believe this slows down the forum. Feel free to reduce it to just the link if you want.
—
[ Mod: Fixed.A URL of a video webpage will be rendered as an embedded video rather than the bare URL. It’s a “feature” of the WordPress forum plugin, unfortunately.
To display a link, you need to surround the linked text with an anchor tag:
Video: Ethel Merman -- <a href="https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/04/singalongavanessa/"> SingalongaVanessa </a> (Craig Murray blog)
You might find it helpful to use the “LINK” button above the comment window: just highlight the text to be linked, click the LINK button and paste in the URL.
I hope that helps. ]
@ Node
“The data suggests that covid19 has an infection fatality rate that is in the same ballpark as seasonal influenza.”
If so, the government should lift the lockdown, but how can they (politically) after inflicting so much damage in the name of fighting the virus. Hence the need to inflate numbers to show how serious it is, but which at the same time extends the lockdown, damaging health and economy even more.
As I recall the sequence was, Boris announces plans for a partial lockdown (like Sweden), and then as if a switch was thrown announces a heavy lockdown, and uses figures from the “experts of choice” (ICL) to justify doing so.
“Experts of choice” because they provide the advice the government asks them to provide to justify government policy, whilst hiding behind the “experts”.
I think this explains ICL’s record of poor “expert” advice, such as advice to kill millions of cattle as solution to cattle catching a cold during foot and mouth outbreak. Don’t know, but suspect killing the cattle was part of some EU deal over quotas. But the quota deal was hidden behind the “best expert advice money can buy”!
Its claimed (and I don’t doubt it due to Boris’s liberal instincts) he didn’t want the heavy curfew and wants to lift it asap, so perhaps his illness (or poisoning as CNN announced he was covid free when he left hospital!) was a tactical way to keep out of the way until its safe to emerge to lift the lockdown without, he hopes, taking the blame. This will happen when Trump beats off Impeachment 3 and lifts the lockdown in America.
No, it means the restrictions must be observed!
The infection fatality rate may be similar to 1918 influenza, but the entire global population is naive to this virus.
– “…estimates that between 2.5 and 4.2% of the county’s population have been infected”
100 / 2.5 = 40
100 / 4.2 = ~24
So in Santa Clara County, California, this epidemic can get between 24 and 40 times worse than it is already, and not all of the deaths from those infections will have occurred yet. Get me the graph for excess mortality in Santa Clara County. My friend Ben lives in California. Stop campaigning for the death of my friend.
I am trembling with anger.
You are campaigning for death.
It is the infection per population that is lower for seasonal influenza, because the population is far from naive; influenza circulates, so the majority already have immunity, and thus the population as a whole has resistance.
SARS-CoV-2 is brand new; without restriction is will cut a swathe through the population. It will be years before it is a circulating disease like seasonal influenza. In fact, it may never become such; we know so little about it, recovery may not even confer immunity. We do not yet know. The restrictions buy us time.
I strongly suspect that the video has been edited, cut from a longer video, and the questions are not part of the original video, they have been dubbed on; they were clearly recorded in a different environment.
FIND THE FULL, ORIGINAL VIDEO!.
Quote mining. A common technique of those with an agenda to promote. And the Off-Guardian article links to the anonymous Swiss Propaganda Research, who zealously hide their identities. Someone is trying to maximise death. Information warfare. Literally.
And Node has quote-mined further, omitted literally vital information. I am preparing a transcript.
You are campaigning for death.
I am sharing the message of someone who is globally respected for accurately interpreting data.
The data suggests that the percentage of people who die after being infected with cov sars 2 is about the same as the percentage of people who die after being infected with seasonal flu. He is saying it is no more dangerous to catch cov sars 2 than to catch flu.
That video was posted by “Journeyman Pictures”, who are incredibly prolific, like Philip Cross. They have posted hundreds of clips in the last ten months, none of it original content. There has to be a team behind this outfit. Check for yourself; see if you can scroll to the bottom of the page:
https://www.youtube.com/user/journeymanpictures/videos
Who wants us dead, eh?
02:35 – “It suggests that even though this is a very serious problem, we should not fear. It suggests that we have solid ground to have optimism, about the possibility of eventually reopening our society, and gaining back our lives.”
And at the end, the caption:
– FULL INTERVIEW TO COME
– LATER TODAY OR EARLY TOMORROWSo as I said, this is not the full talk from Dr. Ioannidis.
Node, you found this so it is your responsibility to do the right thing by finding the complete version, which will include the parts that Journeyman Pictures don’t want us to hear.
– “He is saying it is no more dangerous to catch cov sars 2 than to catch flu.”
No he is not. You have misinterpreted. covid-19 frequently causes long term lung damage, heart damage, damage to vital organs and neurological damage. Flu does none of those. And we don’t know if recovery confers immunity, or to what extent; we have only four months experience with this virus.
NODE, ACT RESPONSIBLY. YOU ARE PLAYING WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES AND LONG TERM HEALTH
I cannot find the original talk, but there seem to be at least three other sources for Node’s three minute quote-mining exercise.
Someone appears to be pushing this.
@ Clark
“No, it means the restrictions must be observed”!
Do you observe the restrictions?
And this is a flawed study anyway. The sample is not random, they recruited participants by placing targeted advertisements aimed at Santa Clara County on Facebook.
California has already had 1,146 deaths. If you really want that to rise to between 27,000 and 46,000 deaths in the next month or two, keep on campaigning as you have been.
Yes, Dave, I do observe the restrictions.
Covid-19 is also a horrible way to die. Breathing becomes increasingly difficult over a week, often until heart failure occurs through lack of oxygen.
This is another reason to prevent overload of critical care facilities. Even if death cannot be prevented, the suffering and distress can be alleviated.
How do YOU want your last days, hours and moments to be? A protracted, doomed struggle for breath, like drowning for a week?
“And this is a flawed study anyway.”
There are other studies which come to a similar conclusion but I have posted this one here because Ioannidis’s reputation is unimpeachable. His livelihood and worldwide respect depends on him accurately interpreting data. Ask Ben Goldacre.
Ioannidis didn’t do the study, and there is widespread criticism of it. It may be withdrawn.
But the infection fatality rate being much lower than the case fatality rate is no secret; it is widely know, as you’d know too if you get away from propaganda sites and looked at proper reliable sources. For weeks now I have been estimating the infected proportion of the population from the death figures, because only a small proportion of infections are confirmed and therefore counted. IFR and CFR are different things.
If you had chosen to discuss with Squonk rather than fight and advocate you’d have known all this too.
Node, look at the effect you have Node. Every time you make some misinterpreted claim “it’s no worse than flu”, Dave chips in with “remove the restrictions for the sake of the economy”. If Dave takes it that way so do a multitude of others.
I’d rather restrictions be voluntary, decided by each individual based on sound information about what personal behaviour is risky and what isn’t. The more you undermine good information, the more restrictions have to be enforced, for the good of the majority.
“If you had chosen to discuss with Squonk rather than fight and advocate you’d have known all this too.”
Squonk banned me for saying what Ioannidis says.
Want a tiny violin accompaniment for your continued distortions? He said be reasonable or leave. There’s no technical block, but your more misleading stuff was probably deleted. And you’ve quote-mined a quote-mine, like Truthers typically do. Look to your effects Node.
“He said be reasonable or leave.”
I was about to quote what he actually said, but no, I’m not resurrecting this dispute over here. Check it for yourself.
Look, I don’t blame you or Squonk. You are scared and fighting for what you believe. I am scared for a different reason and fighting for what I believe. As I have explained to you before, I believe the world is run by an elite who appoint politicians, start wars, cause economic depressions, control continents, to further their aims. Their aim is always to increase their control of the world. It is done through control of the money supply. Call THEM the Banksters, for want of a better term. They own all the global corporations, the industrial military complex, the energy firms, utilities, global food chains, internet service providers, you name it.
Now and again they pull off a big one – the recent bank bailout was a moderate one, it only gained them a few trillion. But it is not about money, it is about owning, ie controlling, the world’s resources. Money is just a tool to do that. I believe this pandemic ‘crisis’ is a big one, possibly THE big one. When it is over vast amounts of private property will have been transferred to their control, the biggest snatch in history.
They are smashing the global economy. When it is over, every business will have gone bust – its assets defaulting to the banks or bought up cheap by the corporations – or at best they will be massively in debt to the banks. Independent traders and services gone, no competition, no choice but THEM. Every private individual will owe more and be worth less. Meanwhile our governments are borrowing trillions ‘on our behalf’.
[I don’t expect anything but mockery for my belief that a secret elite runs the world, but you cannot dispute what I say about the effects of the pandemic – the biggest transfer of assets from the many to the few in the history of the world]
And on top of all that, the Banksters have acquired unprecedented powers to suppress dissent, to maintain control as more and more people begin to realise what has happened – police state surveillance and control measures, all of them demanded by the very people who will be suppressed by them.
You’re scared? I’m fucking terrified. I have every bit as much right as you to voice my concerns, so back off with your “Oh, Node, shut up with your dangerous opinions.” From my POV, you are the dangerous one, doing the Banksters work for them. But like I said, I understand where you’re coming from. Now you try and understand my position, and stop screaming for censorship.
