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AG
I hadn´t heard the Z.-Trump-Vance encounter until today. I knew Z is a moron. But THIS is just embarrassing. If you play the game you should know the rules. And Trump was correct with every single statement just like Vance. And I dislike both. But they are miles better than what the US had before. What a sad assessment to make…
Indeed and what does it say about the world when people like Vance and Trump are considered the more sane ones (atleast on this issue)? It is terrible that the Leftists & Greens parties even socialists have completely backtracked from being pro-peace, disarmament, diplomacy etc and instead become the worst of warmongers, mimicking the rightwing narrative, propaganda on Ukraine/Russia.
And in the EU the insanity is just as deluded. Hawkish Kaja Kallas talk like she is some imperialistic leader, trying to pick fight with both Russia and China!
Video:If we cannot collectively exert enough pressure on Moscow to achieve a real effect, then how can we claim that we would be able to defeat China? — European Union foreign policy chief, Kaja Kallas
KK and KKK to me appear to have the same origin…;-P
Trump statement on his TRUTH thingy after Z blowing up in the WH:
““We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure,” Trump posted on Truth Social after the meeting.
“It’s amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations,” Trump continued. “I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”
Larry Johnson argues the stage is set for Z leaving office. We´ll see about that. And whoever will follow will most likely be worse if we look at the known personnel.
p.s. Trump ordered to keep the RU-sanctions for another year (until some RU-deal is signed). Of course he was told by now them sanctions hurt the EU more than RU. He canceled an oil deal with Venezuela. And he tightens the screws on Cuba. So the administration puts this Z diversion to “good use” 🙁
She is either really really really really really stupid. Or very very very very very dishonest. Either way: We have to get rid of that bunch of insane Nazis in Brussels. Actually there should be some legal action to indict her and the others for malpractice in terms of their policies hurting the people. They have made a vow to protect the people. If one wipes away all the smoke and demands scrutiny it becomes clear in an instant that the alleged threats from RU and China which are the ONLY grounds for their conduct are fraudulent. They do not exist. How is it not possible to demand transparency on issues called “national security”. I mean we are not a monarchy any more I think – on paper at least. There must be accountability even for secret intelligence and the armed forces. If that´s thwarted the KKs of Europe have nothing to hold on to.
This Kalas woman is going to defeat China? Why? What’s in the heads of these people and who elected them? Whom do they represent and on whose behalf are they talking about defeating China?
I wish I saw Mr. Xi’s face when he knows about that 🙂
Jack, if I can serve as a translator once again
A video is shared on Pikabu, a short episode from the yesterdays meeting in the oval office.
https://pikabu.ru/story/reaktsiya_zelenskogo_na_repliki_vyensa_s_kommentom_ot_amerikanskogo_tv_12438913
There’s a remark “bitch” in Russian. I can add I clearly see this is followed by another obscene ‘blya’. It makes ‘suka blya’, actually.
The articulation of these sounds in Russian is difficult to confuse with something else. The bilabial b is pronounced with full closure; the soft l in Russian holds a large area of the tongue on the alveoli and with considerable effort. Anyway, it’s a common pair of obscene words that go together.Tatyana
Yeah I saw that on RT too earlier today, the disrespect of this man is really something, I hope Vance and Trump have now become aware that Zelensky actually swore against them, right there in front them in the White House as a guest!
Did Zelensky call Vance a ‘b*tch’?
The Ukrainian leader was caught on a hot mic apparently cursing at the US vice presidenthttps://swentr.site/news/613507-vance-trump-zelensky-ukraine/
What is up with Zelensky anyway? His nose keep twitching, he have constant weird stare, he make weird grimaces, he cannot sit still etc
Is it stress? Tics? Everything was so odd, why is so passively aggressive during the whole meeting? He was there to garner support and he acted like a fool from the getgo.
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When a reported asked him why he do not wear a suit, he riduclously said that he will wear a suit after the war. What a primadoona huh and notice that he could not but sneak in a salty “joke” in his answer to the reporter. I mean he is not in a position to say such things, no one talks him seriously, he is like a provocative teenager. So odd.“Do you even own suit…” White House reporter trolls Ukraine Prez Zelenskyy in front of US Prez Trump
To keep things clear, Ze didn’t call Vance a bitch. The obscene expression is the sign of utter annoyance or anger. Ze didn’t like something in Vance’s words.
Still, it makes little difference, it was monstrously disrespectful anyway.
I noticed he addressed Vance as JD. ‘Listen, JD…’ sort of. As if they are pals, sitting in swimwear and flipflops, having a beer on a nice summer day somewhere far from formal meetings and cameras.So kid Zelensky keep touring the world, yesterday he was in the UK to get some more photo-op, fame, pat on the back.
Another whopping 2,6 billion Euros promised to Zelensky by Starmer:Zelensky and Starmer conclude meeting – UK confirms support for Ukraine with €2.6 billion in aid
And now he even cut aid to poor nations just to finance the war against Russia:
Starmer cuts aid to fund increase in defence spending
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrkkv4gd7o
And this is all done by alleged socialists..
I’ve been quite surprised to read these comments from yesterday regarding the meeting in Washington. I’ve not really followed this thread so I apologise if I’m naive in what I say and I mean no disrespect to any of you.
We all form opinions based on what we see, read and hear – and in some cases, experience. Every conflict has its markers; the junctions in the road where events and momentum take the world in another direction. Not everyone follows and they will always have a different perspective of what unfolds.
I have little regard for any world leader and politician; they talk of peace but prepare for war. It has always been so – and history teaches us that war invariably follows. They know this, but haven’t understood the lesson. Yet millions of innocent men, women and children have in the last three years – in Ukraine and Gaza and Sudan.
Peace only happens when we lay down our arms and embrace each other and seek forgiveness. It will never happen unless we can trust each other and work together. But that is near impossible when we are muddled with the disinformation, lies and misrepresentations we experience every day – especially from the internet.
Ukraine has had many problems since its independence, but its people have lost their homes, lives and future when their country has been used as a battleground for a proxy war of political failure and incompetence. The only beneficiaries being the corporations, militarists, financiers and the enablers. The Ukrainian leader Zelensky is one of the few people I have high regard for. I’m sure he has made many mistakes – who wouldn’t in his circumstances – and he is certainly being used as a pawn in a much larger game, but he is doing his best to protect his people and country in an impossible situation.
It would take a courageous individual to say enough is enough. If we truly want peace, we lay down our weapons – all of them – and don’t make any more. Turn back down the road we’ve been on and find the junction where the rest of humanity will be waiting for us. You never know: One day we might have an insane narcissist in charge of a large red button who could very well press it and we’d never have the chance again.
I can’t put it more succinctly than CM’s tweet:
“There are a thousand valid points to be made in all directions about how we got to where we are in the disaster of Ukraine.
I would distil out just two which I would put at the top tier for understanding.
1) How did Viktor Yanukovich come to power?
2)How was he removed?”Zelensky’s rise to president is based on the answers to those questions.
Suggestion.
Could the site admin find a way to reproduce on this blog a copy of CM’s tweets?Shibboleth
Thanks for your input, and every view is important, no one sits on the truth here. My two cents to that would be that:
While I think that war itself the most stupid thing people could engage in and while I think the Russian invasion was a big folly – I said that on this site on the very same day of the invasion – it is nonetheless a fact that Russia simply have more weapons and more qualitative of weapons than Ukraine.
It is also a fact that Russia have a bigger army and a way bigger population.
If one adds these 2 facts together it is inevitable that this is a war Ukraine cannot win, and ever since late 2022 there have been no real successes by Ukraine on the battlefield (granted, some village etc. have been retaken but nothing of greater value). All these hyped up counter-offensives that were about to happen by Ukraine, nothing came out of it. To this day Russia holds quite large areas in Ukraine, how would Ukraine be able not only to drive Russia out from these areas and then keep these land under protection? I cannot see how that could happen? If it has not happened yet, how will it happen?Take this map, this is from 2023, note the minuscule progress in the map, that was after a tremendous arms delivery from the West prior up to that “counter-offensive”: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/09/27/multimedia/2023-09-18-ukraine-static-frontlines-index/2023-09-18-ukraine-static-frontlines-index-superJumbo-v2.jpg
Main article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/28/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-map-front-line.htmlIn my view Zelensky is therefore a person that is not acting sensible, he simply wants to fight the way bigger guy on the street, getting beat up and tossed in the air but keep trying to fight off this bigger person, and every time he tries to fight this bigger person he just keep getting more injured, meanwhile war hawks in the EU/media/politicians egging him on. I therefore believe Zelensky is driven by hubris, a bunker-mentality and too legacy-driven, he is a disaster for Ukraine as nation because the more he decides to fight, the less will be left of Ukraine.
And Zelensky could in theory agree to peace talks today and that would stop short the Russian military advancement or prove that Russia are not serious about peace and want to keep fighting.
I also think Zelensky is a divisive person, during the whole of the war he hasn’t once reached out and tried to get better relations with the ethnic Russian population inside Ukraine, making it easy for the ethnic Russians to simply side with Russia. Then we have the forced conscription by him, his crackdown on political parties, media etc.. In my view he is a person that puts on a nice little innocent face on the photo-ops in the west but is quite an authoritarian at home.
And also we have the perhaps biggest issue in my view, the overall risk of a world war if this war is just to escalate.
What would have happened if the US/Soviets did not come to terms over the Cuban Missile Crisis? Ukraine today is the modern Cuban Missile Crisis. If Soviet/US could find a way to de-escalate back then why is it so problematic, for especially the EU, to come to terms with Russia today? It is like people have lost their senses over Ukraine.Feel free to respond!
Hello Jack
So the country with the bigger army and more advanced and destructive armaments always wins and anyone standing up to its aggression is stupid to fight back when defeat is all but certain?
I’m not sure that is so. Russia did not defeat Afghanistan who did not possess a defensive capability anything like that of Ukraine although it did improve thanks to Charlie Wilson.
Britain certainly never defeated Ireland, nor did Britain and America defeat Iraq or Afghanistan in the “war on terror” which was predicated on a fabrication of lies. Nor has Israel defeated the Palestinians despite inflicting a genocide and being a nuclear power. History provides many examples of the small man standing up to impossible odds and coming out victorious. We should be glad; to them it’s about principles and people – to their enemy it’s about power and profit.
Be in no doubt, Putin and Trump and Netanyahu are also mere pawns in this game. They too are being manipulated and played – but are handsomely rewarded for their obedience. For now.
I don’t understand how you can so characterise Zelensky – he is in an impossible position. When I visited Kiev and Yalta in the mid 90s – I met with many Ukrainians and Russians living side by side – in harmony. What bound them together was their shared experience – especially poverty. “We are Russians; we will always be poor” was a common phrase. But the typical imperialist playbook is divide and conquer – create division and exploit it. I am certain that in many areas away from the media and cameras people of both nationalities are still doing their best to live in harmony and peace – we need to live by their example, don’t you think?
Ze certainly demonstrates courage and perseverance that is impressive. I have no doubt that this will cause a wave of admiration among his supporters.
The problem is that such persistence and inflexibility led to this conflict.
Because within the borders of Ukraine, which Ze and his supporters consider correct (with Crimea and Donbass), live not only those who support his policies.
If only he had shown his courage and inflexibility to Ukrainian nationalists, if he had stuck to his pre-election promises to make peace, stop the civil war in the east, reconcile the population and be president FOR ALL Ukrainians.
This war would never happen then.
He uses his qualities in the wrong place, prolonging the war.Elon Musk summed it up nicely, with this ‘the trolley problem’ picture
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1896148096075305046Tatyana:
I think you would agree that it’s all about perspective and that many others would say the same about Putin.
If Scotland had voted for independence in 2014 and Alex Salmond had become its first Prime Minister – I would have imagined there would have been many confrontations with Westminster as that would present an existential threat to the British Establishment.
I wouldn’t have expected David Cameron or Theresa May to send the tanks across the border and start bombing Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee by the RAF. But I would have expected Alex Salmond to be belligerent, inflexible and persistent in his rejection of the conflict perpetrated by an aggressor with overwhelming military might. I’d imagine he would be gracious and steadfast in his support for English born residents in Scotland who identified with the Scottish values – but would be less understanding and patient with Scottish Unionists that showed support for the invader.
As for Musk, he is a deeply unbalanced and inadequate individual, which I’m sure is illustrated by the link you provide.
Kind regards
Shibboleth (btw, let me compliment you on the choice of the name), I politely disagree. I have a different experience.
Since you mentioned Putin, it’s appropriate to recall that he began his career as the head of this state with the separatist conflict in Chechnya. We had all sorts of people on both sides, and more than one reason for mutual hatred.
Just see where we are now.
It only takes several adults doing their job properly, taking it seriously, to finally find the way out and move forward.
If Putin and Ahmat Kadyrov were belligerent and inflexible then? Each of them had their own perspective, but they rose above it and finally gave peace to people.I respect the character traits in question, but I would like to see them aimed at achieving peace. In Ze’s case, I see that this is a demonstration of stubbornness, a desire to insist uncompromisingly; and to a very large extent this is posing in front of those whom he can impress.
He is not a politician doing his job for his country, he is rather an avatar, symbol emotionally calling for donations and support.Tatanya:
I have huge respect for the Russian people and their history – and a great admirer of the many incredible thinkers, writers, artists, philosophers – as well as the ordinary men and women. I come from a small mining town in Scotland who had the UK’s only communist MP – as well as Jennie Lee and other true socialists. I ascribe wholeheartedly to the international call of Nae Paseran – solidarity beyond borders.
I despise what my country (Britain) has become – or perhaps what it’s always been – but it has taken many years to clear one’s eyes from the propaganda and opaqueness laid down by the Establishment. I suspect this is true for many people in every country. But I still recognise right from wrong – the overwhelming use of force to overwhelm a weaker neighbour, for example. To subjugate an entire nation, of course.
In the working men’s and miner’s clubs in Fife during last century, thee were many slogans you’d be more than familiar with, that decorated the walls. But in every place there was also the motto of the Kings of Scotland – very appropriately sitting side by side. It reads:
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
This is why Zelensky is as you describe.
Tatyana wrote: “Shibboleth (btw, let me compliment you on the choice of the name)
To be clear, the sobriquet references a climb in Glencoe that provided a metanoia for me many years ago – but I acknowledge the definition of the universal language, despite the origins.
shibboleth
So the country with the bigger army and more advanced and destructive armaments always wins and anyone standing up to its aggression is stupid to fight back when defeat is all but certain?
Yes I believe so, I do not say this is right, correct, moral etc. – again I am against the invasion – I just speak on what is realistic in my view. It is like if you meet someone in the street that try to assault, rob you and this person are way bigger than yourself, would it be rational to fight this person? Sure you could and there is a slim chance that you could cause some injury to this person but there is a way bigger risk that you will be injured, severely. When I see Zelensky’s Ukraine I see this small person trying to win over a way bigger person therefore I do not support him, I think he makes it way worse and have much more to win at the negogiating table than on the battlefield.
Re: Afghanistan, Iraq, Gaza one could throw in Vietnam. These wars is a bit different type of wars from what I understand, that is, asymmetrical wars, this war is a symmetrical, conventional war.
From my understanding Ukraine have never been that unified of a country, in my view the nationalist fervor inside Ukraine to get rid of anything related to Russia was taken way too far and culminated in the Maidan events in 2013.
I believe these quotes, written some 30 years ago, sum up my understanding of Ukraine:
Ukraine, however, is a cleft country with two distinct cultures. The civilizational fault line between the West and Orthodoxy runs through its heart and has done so for centuries
Historically, western Ukrainians have spoken Ukrainian and have been strongly nationalist in their outlook. The people of eastern Ukraine, on the other hand, have been overwhelmingly Orthodox and have in large part spoken Russian. In the early 1990s Russians made up 22 percent and native Russian speakers 31 percent of the total Ukrainian population.
The differences between eastern and western Ukraine are manifest in the attitudes of their peoples. In late 1992, for instance, one-third of the Russians in western Ukraine as compared with only 10 percent in Kiev said they suffered from anti-Russian animosity.7 The east-west split was dramatically evident in the July 1994 presidential elections. The incumbent, Leonid Kravchuk, who despite working closely with Russia’s leaders identified himself as a nationalist, carried the thirteen provinces of the western Ukraine with majorities ranging up to over 90 percent. His opponent, Leonid Kuchma, who took Ukrainian speech lessons during the campaign, carried the thirteen eastern provinces by comparable majorities. Kuchma won with 52 percent of the vote.
In effect, a slim majority of the Ukrainian public in 1994 confirmed Khmelnytsky’s choice in 1654. The election, as one American expert observed, “reflected, even crystallized, the split between Europeanized Slavs in western Ukraine and the Russo-Slav vision of what Ukraine should be. It’s not ethnic polarization so much as different cultures.”A second and somewhat more likely possibility is that Ukraine could split along its fault line into two separate entities, the eastern of which would merge with Russia. The issue of secession first came up with respect to Crimea. The Crimean public, which is 70 percent Russian, substantially supported Ukrainian independence from the Soviet Union in a referendum in December 1991.
In May 1992 the Crimeans parliament also voted to declare independence from Ukraine and then, under Ukrainian pressure, rescinded that vote. The Russian parliament, however, voted to cancel the 1954 cession of Crimea to Ukraine.
In January 1994 crimeans elected a president who had campaigned on a platform of “unity with Russia.”https://blog.deeb.ch/posts/clashofcivilizations-ukraine/
From what I understand you believe that Ukraine could retake all these lands that Russia hold, how? Because as I said I cannot see that happening. I cannot see Russia simply giving up/being beaten/going home.
Well, Wiki says it was the Kingdom of Scotland in 9th century. At that time the country you today know as Ukraine was called Kievan Rus. Because it was Russian state with the capital city Kiev.
Wiki says ‘Nemo me impune lacessit’ served as the national motto of the historic Kingdom of Scotland prior to the Treaty of Union 1707. At that time the country you today know as Ukraine was called Little Russia.
If today the situation in Scotland were the same as in Ukraine, then you would admire the inflexibility of Alex Salmond, who legally recognized the Scots as the non-indigenous population of your country 🙂
Oh, and I also disagree with Jack. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Jack is advocating for peace negotiations because he believes Ukrainian resistance has little chance of success.
I believe that Western support equalizes forces, or, at least, makes them belong to the same scale.I hate the very thought of surrendering without a fight, and I’m sure the Ukrainians think the same. But this is a distraction.
In this conflict, the solution lies neither in military force nor in perseverance. The root is that some people were very wrong from the very beginning.
when I say ‘from the very beginning’ I don’t mean February 24, 2022, when many ardent supporters of Ukraine first learned of the existence of such a country on the map.
The parliament of Ze recognized the Russians as the non-indigenous population in 2019. And before that, Poroshenko launched war on Donbass, saying ‘our kids will go to schools and kindergartens, when theirs will sit in basements. That’s how we win’
Thank you Tatyana. I think I now understand you much better.
Jack, I’ll reply to you tomorrow. Best.
Thanks, Shibboleth.
I believe that in the Ukrainian conflict Ze insists that his power must extend to all people living within the borders of 1991.
He is opposed by Crimea and Donbass, who defend their right to live on their historical land and save their historical ethnic identification.Ze found support from the West, and Crimea and Donbass found support from Russia.
This conflict will not stop as long as the support reacts to emotional propaganda, part of which is Ze’s public image (that’s why he was criticized in the White House for not wearing a suit).
The conflict will be resolved when adults in neutral business clothes do their job and find a way out.It is intersting to pinpoint where the White House meeting go astray and that was when JD Vance made an argument that US want to see diplomacy, not war, solving the war, this thing, diplomacy over war, was what infuriated Zelensky:
Link to segment: https://youtu.be/7pxbGjvcdyY?t=2426Zelensky then tried to claim that Russia cannot be trusted with deals. Which is quite a lie because there have been efforts like the “Minsk agreements” which were supposed to grant the region of Luhansk and Donetsk some de-centralization. But ever since Ukraine + France + Germany themselves admitted having signed these agreements only on the princple to just stop short the conflict to buy time:
Germany:Former German Chancellor Merkel admits the Minsk agreement was merely to buy time for Ukraine’s arms build-up
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html
France:“There was the idea that it was Putin who had wanted to buy time, but it was us [France and Germany] who wanted to buy time to allow Ukraine to recover, to strengthen its resources.”
“That’s why we have to defend the Minsk negotiations, in which you [Poroshenko] played a very important role. It was precisely during these seven years that there were ways for Ukraine to strengthen itself, and this is where Putin was wrong: he underestimated the capacity of the Ukrainians and their resistance.”
Petro Poroshenko has admitted that the 2015 ceasefire in Donbass, which he negotiated with Russia, France and Germany as president of Ukraine, was merely a distraction intended to buy time for Kiev to rebuild its military.
“We had achieved everything we wanted,” he said of the peace deal. “Our goal was to, first, stop the threat, or at least to delay the war – to secure eight years to restore economic growth and create powerful armed forces.”https://orinocotribune.com/minsk-deal-was-used-to-buy-time-ukraines-poroshenko/
This short video from 2019 from the so called “Normandie format” also show that Zelensky have always been too immature for his role, smirking and eye-rolling and it would be just as insincere if Putin did just that when Zelensky spoke:
https://x.com/ricwe123/status/1895806247343177888Diplomatic solution was always rejected by Kiev and its supporters. Even then in the days when it was inner Ukrainian conflict, a civil war.
I suppose, there must be something in the very essence of it. For some reason, Kiev and its supporters don’t want it.
Perhaps, there’s something in their position, that would not last if scrutinized properly?So far, I see Kiev stands on ‘sovereign borders recognised internationally’ position.
Donbas and Crimea stand on ‘the right for self-determination’ position.
Russia stands on ‘a state has right for its sovereign borders respected until the state treats all of its population equally’, and ‘Russia has right to recognise other states as independent and give them military support’.As you see, there’s more than one aggressor, and there’s more than one ‘truth’, and more than one ‘right side’. Sort of logical puzzle to solve.
