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Tatyana
<i>”I suppose, there must be something in the very essence of it. For some reason, Kiev and its supporters don’t want it.
Perhaps, there’s something in their position, that would not last if scrutinized properly?”</i>I believe part of the reason for the stubborn Ukraine/Western position is that the west have spent all too much prestige, all too much money, all too much support, rhetoric in support for Ukraine and now they cannot back away so now they rather pick the choice of world war than admitting how colosally wrong they have been on this conflict. Imagine the colosall confidence drop the whole western elite/media will face after this debacle, so from that, they try to uphold the war as long as possible.
John Mearsheimer put it very well last year:
Video: https://youtu.be/9uD5DAg6e4A?t=521
(let me know if you cannot access it and I will try find another source)Perhaps, Jack, very likely it is so.
I’ve also noticed that any call for diplomacy and peace is not countered by the West with anything logical. The West’s arguments boil down to the trivial simplification of “Putin shouldn’t win”, which is essentially the same emotional propaganda, not supported by common sense or good intentions.
This “Putin argument” does not stand up to sound criticism within the framework of logic, but simply divides observers into two opposing emotionally arguing camps.
This is sad.
Maybe it’s time to leave Putin aside and talk about the people of Ukraine? They have been at war there for about 10 years. There’s a conflict there, contradictions that we could try to resolve.Good article by Aaron Maté on Zelly’s fatal error in the Oval Office:
Zelensky’s hostility to peace triggers White House meltdown
Long rewarded by Washington and NATO for undermining diplomacy with Russia, Zelensky grew confrontational — and told outright falsehoods — when Donald Trump and JD Vance told him to make peace.https://www.aaronmate.net/p/zelenskys-hostility-to-peace-triggers
Tatyana
Yes it is the typical fallacy of “zero sum game” mentality, thus according to Ukraine/West Russia must lose and Ukraine must win. They reject talks/diplpmacy because that would mean that Ukraine will have to compromise:
Zero-sum game is a mathematical representation in game theory and economic theory of a situation that involves two competing entities, where the result is an advantage for one side and an equivalent loss for the other.[1] In other words, player one’s gain is equivalent to player two’s loss, with the result that the net improvement in benefit of the game is zero
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
Yes I also dislike the personification of the conflict, framing the war as “Putin’s war”, I am sure that if Putin were to die tommorow, the russian policy will not change and if it would change it would become more hawkish – I believe Putin is the best leader west have in Russia, it will not be easier with any other russian president I am sure. The whole focus on Putin lead the analysis completely wrong. And as you say, no one talks about the people how they feel about the war, what they believe is the best solution, what their view on Ukraine is, what their view on Russia is etc.
exactly, Jack.
Why does no one say that special “man-catcher” brigades are grabbing men on Ukrainian streets to send to the front? That Ze signed a law on mobilizing 18-year-olds because there aren’t enough soldiers?I saw Ukrainians talking about ‘war to the end’, at rallies in Berlin and Madrid, where they advocate war while being in a safe place themselves.
A disgusting position, btw, they won’t join the army and are taking their sons to EU, away from this, waiting for someone else to die while winning a piece of land for them. What’s even more disgusting is that most of them didn’t even live on the disputed lands. Some resident of Lvov just really wants Donbass and Crimea to be Ukrainian, and with all this, he hates the residents of Donbass and Crimea and wishes them death.I think now that Ze’s main sponsor has seen the famous Ukrainian school of diplomacy in action (and Ze hasn’t yet offered to play the piano for the Americans!), maybe some other options will finally appear to stop this madness.
I find myself having a little sympathy for the Ukrainian people since the Whitehouse spat. I almost have some sympathy for Ze, though I try to stop myself.
The USA and its European and UK allies deliberately provoked the whole affair since long before the Maidan coup in 2014. They used Ukraine as a battering ram with the goal of strategically defeating Russia. It was their policy. Ukraine and Ze are culpable for allowing that to happen and allowing the inducement of EU/NATO membership, without any actual guarantees of that happening, to sway them. They also allowed a toxic neo-nazi element to gain influence – albeit that too was encouraged, nurtured and funded by USA and Europe.
Grond (the battering ram from Lord of the Rings) fell apart. Now, cynically, the USA and the new Trump team want their money back. They provoked the war, they supplied the weapons to further their policy. Now that it has failed, USA wants its money back.
Like a drug dealer, intoxicating their addicted victim for free only to demand payment at a later date under pain of death. It’s abhorrent.I’ve seen Trump’s new administration described as a revolution. A revolution like the French revolution or the Bolshevik revolution where everything that went before is deemed bad, where every policy from before is overturned. I’m not sure I concur with that view completely. USA and Trump seems to want to disown the previously promulgated policy which is great as far as it goes. However, USA ought to own its mistake and own the cost. USA should get precisely zero compensation and make a commitment to aid for rebuilding Ukraine at USA expense. Same goes for EU and UK and all the other supporters.
I can’t help but feel that Ukraine, having fulfilled its assigned role, is now being asked to pay for the failure of the USA policy.
If I were Ze, I’d be releasing all the compromising communications from the USA/EU/UK as fast as and as widely as possible.
Some more fresh information on Zelensky by people from his own team:
Ukrainian officials believe Zelensky is ‘childlike’ – Spiegel
In an article on Monday, the magazine recounted how the politician came to power on a populist platform back in 2019, dishing out simplistic solutions to the many problems facing Ukraine, including the conflict in Donbass. The outlet quoted a former staff member as saying that Zelensky “didn’t just speak like a populist, that’s how he actually thought,” with an unnamed senior official in Kiev adding that “still today, he has the worldview of a schoolchild.”
https://swentr.site/russia/613626-spiegel-zelensky-like-child/
The other day it was a similar article in the Spectator:
Trump – not Zelensky – is Ukraine’s only hope – written by a person close to Zelensky under a made-up name
https://archive.ph/C2zV7#selection-1659.0-1659.94
Some excerpts:It pains me to admit that at least some of what Donald Trump has said about Zelensky is true.
The war has given Zelensky everything he ever wanted: absolute power, control over billions in foreign aid, and standing ovations from the world. From his very first day in office – which I witnessed first-hand – he was fixated on securing a second term. Publicly, he dismissed any talk of re-election, insisting it was too early. Privately, he never stopped preparing. Zelensky is obsessed with his approval ratings. Even now, he is laying the groundwork for his campaign. Since September 2024, his administration has been funneling extra payments to those who promote his image online – flooding social media with thousands of carefully curated videos showcasing him as the charming actor-turned-wartime leader, clad in his signature khaki T-shirt. But his more decisive strategy has been the systematic elimination of political opponents.
Former Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces Valerii Zaluzhnyi – the most formidable potential challenger – was abruptly dismissed last year and reassigned to a diplomatic post. Insiders report that criminal cases have already been prepared against Zaluzhnyi, should he dare to enter politics.
Today, Zelensky and his circle have consolidated nearly total control over the state. They can manipulate elections, suppress dissent, and imprison whomever they choose. Independent media are officially banned from television and radio airwaves, while opposition and anticorruption activists active online have been threatened with arrest
https://archive.ph/C2zV7#selection-1659.0-1659.94
Zelensky is simply not that nice, courageous, innocent person westerners think he is.
Jack, I have to ask.
“Zelensky is obsessed with his approval ratings.”Isn’t the whole world edifice obsessed with its approval ratings. Isn’t this the current paradigm. Every shop you go into has some setup to record your approval ratings. Every time you buy something online you get a follow up email asking for your approval ratings. The globe is obsessed with approval ratings.
Why is this? Advertising is the answer. The abuse of psychological techniques to manipulate opinions.
We need a revolution in advertising, and that industry’s advocates as it currently operates needs to be the first executed.It’s a pity that the question was not addressed to me, ET 🙂 As an artisan selling online since 2009, I’d like to share an observation:
High approval rating inspires confidence. Such ads attract a category of buyers, those who do not spend time studying the properties of the product. High approval rating is an element of building consumer’s trust in the product.
Listings (ads) with high approval ratings can be edited by the seller to now offer a different product. Sometimes with deterioration in quality. This often goes through many iterations until customers start writing bad reviews. And time will pass when the number of bad ones will noticeably reduce the overall rating.
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Now, when we are publicly introduced to the Famous Ukrainian Diplomacy, it’s time to learn about Legendary Ukrainian Gratitude.
Anyone remembers Lindsey Graham? ‘Russians dying. The best money we’ve ever spent’
Ze literally told him that he has no right to speak about elections in Ukraine, because he isn’t a citizen of Ukraine.Taking into account Ze’s statements that they could have handled the war without American help, and also statements that they don’t owe anyone anything, and the money from Baden was grants, and in general, the deal was concluded with Baden and not with Trump…
There has already been hate on social networks towards the Americans, Soldiers are posting videos of tearing off patches with the American flag. I saw one where a car drives around the city offering to take a flower to anyone who considers Trump a traitor.
Well, good luck to the Americans in their attempts to make Ukrainians give something back.
ET
Yes that is correct and every politician wish for a high approval rate of course but I sense that Zelensky prioritize himself/ratings a bit too much and above the fate of Ukraine itself, my two cents is that I feel that this approval rate is “artifical” and is hyped up by the constant glorification of him by the EU, media etc.
European leaders ‘puffing up’ Zelensky – Vance
Inflating the Ukrainian leader’s ego does a disservice to the country’s people, according to the US vice president“They say: ‘you are a freedom fighter; you need to keep fighting forever.’ Well, fighting forever with what? With whose money and whose ammunition and with whose lives?” Vance asked.
https://swentr.site/news/613641-vance-europeans-zelensky-ego/
Hi Jack – I know I promised a reply but I’ve been preoccupied by other matters. My companion is seriously ill.
I have read CM’s recent post and the comments and don’t really wish to enter this debate other than to say I whilst I understand the opinions and views, I very much disagree with the tenor and conclusions. As someone who subscribes to the Quaker philosophy, the only way to secure peace is to stop playing this insane game and respecting each other. Easy words but there is so much involved that most will never achieve an understanding or enlightenment.
When I was in single and early double digits, we used to play war games in converted attics with plastic toys and on the sand dunes with wooden spades as machine guns. Thankfully we grew out of it and discovered what life was really about. How weird that social media and the internet in general have revived such silliness – and to what cost?
All the best.
Shibboleth
I am sorry to hear that, I really hope your companion is getting better.
I fully understand your point, we have to agree to disagree, one do not have to agree on everything.
When one zoom out one really grasp how stupid wars really is, perhaps the worst pf plagues, the systematic killing of lives, it is senseless, especially in this age, the human kind have certainly not progressed since the idiocy of 1914 and social media have instead of bringing people together caused more division, sometimes I wonder why people spend so much time debating on forums anyway, in the end all of us have already decided what to believe in.
Thank you Jack.
I worked for nearly five decades with elderly people and was thus offered the opportunity to sit and listen to their life stories, from the mundane to the remarkable. I am now an elderly person and my first patients could recall fighting in the Boer War, then the two world wars. Many were loquacious as they recounted first hand experiences – living history of many of the notable events of the time. I was extremely fortunate to hear tales of bravery in battle and fear in captivity. Only a few of the Burma Railway survivors were able and willing to recall the experience – but those who did left an indelible mark.
A former member of McRae’s Battalion, who held the line at Contalmainson, was drafted into the Engineers who tunnelled the Lochnagar bomb at La Boiselle in 1916 always attended Remembrance Day but turned his back on the Service Personnel and refused to wear a poppy. War is all about power and money and lies; the squaddies were just fodder, he used to say.
Or Churchill’s young assistant who accompanied him to Yalta. ‘We were rid of a monster but created another in its place.’
We’re just animals that have no constraint and a widespread tendency to exist in a fantasy of human supremacy conquering nature and each other whilst destroying both in the process. We’re not grown up enough to understand that guns, bullets and bombs have no place in a peaceful world. We will always use them instead of doing what we’ve just done – agree to disagree. I’m sure if we worked hard enough we could change the outcome too.
All the best.
@ Jack: “ When one zoom out one really grasp how stupid wars really is, perhaps the worst pf plagues, the systematic killing of lives, it is senseless, especially in this age,”
You have to zoom out quite far, Jack. Wars achieve nothing for the 99.9999% aside from trauma, destitution, death and mistrust. But for the other 0.0001% – war has many purposes. Theft, subjugation, control and profit. More money and wealth than you can ever imagine. Putin and Trump – and all the other political leaders are mere middle managers. Above them in more rarified air you will find members and guests at Bilderberg and Davos – but above that, the heads of the financial dynasties – less than half a dozen – who arbitrate and control the ‘system’ we all live under. The top table.
For them, war is a necessary evil – just one tool in their armament where they can exercise population control, expansion and cull, ethnic cleansing, resource exploitation – all whilst reaping the dividends from the global financial system and concealing their wealth and identities from the 99.9999%
It has been that way for many centuries, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Common sense and courage, Jack. The ordinary man and woman are the foundations of this grotesque Ponzi scheme. When we say no, the entire edifice crumbles. The meek shall inherit the earth and all that.
The anti-russian nations keep walking into the same trap over and over again, whether it is Georgia, Ukraine or the baltics:
EU state calls for Schengen ban on Russians
The Latvian interior minister has claimed Russian tourists pose a threat and that the bloc has a “moral duty” to deny them entryI googled that some 450’000 people in Latvia is ethnic russians, probably many more russophone, is there no analysis by the authorities how this targeting of aynthing “russian” make a considerable part of the population Latvia feel? Or are the authorities seek to provoke a reaction from Russia by these moves? Because I do not see the logic. The logic would be to embrace and make every citizen feel welcome being part of Latvia, what Latvia do now is instead to cause totally unnecessary division and cause that many ethnic russians in Lavia to sympathize more with Russia than with Latvia and really who could blame them?
Sorry missed the link:
“EU state calls for Schengen ban on Russians ”
https://swentr.site/news/613857-latvia-eu-russia-visa-ban/No surprise, no evidence yet for any Russian sabotage in the Baltic sea. Obviously the investigators looking for something that is not there:
WSJ: NATO Hunts for Sea-Cable Saboteurs but Can’t Find Proof
Link to WSJ article: https://archive.ph/Mappn
It is like the <i>hope</i> that Russia sabotage cables, it is obvious that they get frustrated every time invesitgations fail to provide evidence of sabotage.
Meanwhile the only deliberate sabotage in the Baltic sea was the destruction of the Nordstream pipelines. But those investigations was stopped short when it was obvious that it was not Russia but Ukraine/West that was the culprit.
new:
“Kremlin lifts restrictions — new course for total victory
According to information leaked from Russian security and military circles, immediately after the failed meeting at the White House, emergency meetings at the highest level were held in Moscow. The key topic was deciding on the further course of the special military operation.”
I was told the above Skeptic item is nonsense. I haven´t been able to dive into his blog for real. So in case the negative assessment is accurate, my apology.
This morning I read a piece in the Guardian stating there was outrage at russian dignitaries giving gifts of meat grinders to russian women who lost husbands/sons on international women’s day.
I decided to ask Tatyana if this is true. I went to find the piece again to archive it but couldn’t find it 5 mins later. It had disappeared. A quick search shows this “information” is everywhere in the MSM.Here is a link to the daily mail piece.
https://archive.is/3YP3aIt strikes me this must be coordinated propaganda.
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[ Mod: Link to the Guardian story: https://archive.is/VpcF7 ]ET
Yes, that’s true. It’s just that no one intended any double meaning.
The small town of Polyarnye Zori in the Murmansk region. Gifts in the form of household appliances were sponsored by United Russia, the Women’s Movement and Defenders of the Fatherland. For the March 8 holiday, they made gifts to the mothers of soldiers.
The women themselves chose what they wanted as a gift (an excellent choice, by the way. I have a Bosch and I make large quantities of various homemade food for my freezer. I can’t imagine how I would live without it, I’d probably have to reduce my time in the workshop, or give my family fast food).
This story on Pikabu
https://pikabu.ru/story/materyam_pogibshikh_na_svo_edinaya_rossiya_podarila_myasorubki_12460079
And review in TASS
https://tass.ru/spb-news/23336117Ukraine and Nato critic Calin Georgescu banned for good from participating in elections in Romania, that is quite a chilling effect, imagine if it was the other way around, a pro-Nato/pro-ukrainian candidate was banned just like that:
Elon Musk mentioned it, perhaps it is time for some heavy tariffs on Romania?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1898794109839569099Judging from the western media framing it is like russian politicians sadistically gave “meatgrinders”. It is amazing how western journalists always trying to create these false narratives, framings.
The theguardian article is also filled with another type of propaganda:…of meat grinders, an appliance widely used to describe Russia’s brutal tactics on the frontline.
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Russia is often accused of throwing its frontline soldiers into a “meat grinder” with scant regard for their lives.
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It refers to a tactic in which small groups of soldiers are sent into attack, one after another, in waves, risking heavy losses, with the aim of eventually wearing out and overpowering Ukrainian troops.Sorry but does not this sound more like the strategy that Ukraine use? They are the ones meeting a stronger enemy, they are the ones that lack the defense, they are the ones sending out soldiers to a certain death.
Media always twist the truth, accusing party x(Russia) of what party y(Ukraine) is actually doing.
