We are continually presented with experts by the mainstream media who will validate whatever miraculous property of “novichok” is needed to fit in with the government’s latest wild anti-Russian story. Tonight Newsnight wheeled out a chemical weapons expert to tell us that “novichok” is “extremely persistent” and therefore that used to attack the Skripals could still be lurking potent on a bush in a park.
Yet only three months ago we had this example of scores from the MSM giving the same message which was the government line at that time:
“Professor Robert Stockman, of the University of Nottingham, said traces of nerve agents did not linger. He added: ‘These agents react with water to degrade, including moisture in the air, and so in the UK they would have a very limited lifetime. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution – it would effectively destroy the agent.'”
In fact, rain affecting the “novichok” on the door handle was given as the reason that the Skripals were not killed. But now the properties of the agent have to fit a new narrative, so they transmute again.
It keeps happening. Do you remember when Novichok was the most deadly of substances, many times more powerful than VX or Sarin, and causing death in seconds? But then, when that needed to be altered to fit the government’s Skripal story, they found scientists to explain that actually no, it was pretty slow acting, absorbed gradually through the skin, and not all that deadly.
Scientists are an interesting bunch. More than willing to ascribe whatever properties fit the government’s ever more implausible stories, in exchange for an MSM appearance fee, 5 minutes of fame and the fond hope of a research grant.
According to the Daily Telegraph today, the unfortunate Charlie Rowley is a registered heroin addict, and if true Occam’s Razor would indicate that is a rather more likely reason for his present state than an inexplicably persistent weaponised nerve agent.
If it is however true that two separate attacks have been carried out with “novichok” a few miles either side of Porton Down, where “novichok” is synthesised and stored for “testing purposes”, what does Occam’s razor suggest is the source of the nerve agent? A question not one MSM journalist seems to have asked themselves tonight.
I am slightly puzzled by the picture the media are trying to paint of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess as homeless, unemployed addicts. The Guardian and Sky News both state that they were unemployed, yet Charlie was living in a very new house in Muggleton Road, Amesbury, which is pretty expensive. According to Zoopla homes range up to £430,000 and the cheapest ones are £270,000. They are all new build, on a new estate, which is still under construction.
Both Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess still have active facebook pages and one of Charlie’s handful of “Likes” is a mortgage broker, which is consistent with his brand new house. They don’t give mortgages to unemployed heroin addicts, and not many of those live in smart new “executive housing” estates. Both Charlie and Dawn appear from their facebook pages to be very well socialised, with Dawn having many friends in the teaching profession. Even if she has been homeless for a period as reported, she is plainly very much part of the community.
Naturally, there is no mention in all the reports today of MI6’s Pablo Miller, who remains the subject of a D notice. I wonder if he knows Rowley and Sturgess, living in the same community? It should be recalled that Salisbury may be a city, but its population is only 45,000.
The most important thing is of course that Charlie and Dawn recover. But tonight, even at this early stage, as with the entire Skripal saga, the message the security services are seeking to give out does not add up. Mark Urban’s piece for Newsnight tonight was simply disgusting; it did not even pretend to be more than a propaganda piece on behalf of the security services, who had told Urban (as he said) that Yulia Skripal’s phone “could have been” tapped by the Russians and they “might even” have listened to her conversations through the microphone in her telephone. That was the “new evidence” that the Russians were behind everything.
As a former British Ambassador I can tell you with certainty that indeed the Russians might have tapped Yulia, but GCHQ most definitely would have. It is, after all, their job, and billions of our taxes go into it. If tapping of phones is seriously presented as evidence of intent to murder, the British government must be very murderous indeed.
Getting back to Amesbury. We have been told that Dawn Sturgess was not a heroin addict because she did not inject drugs. But you can be addicted to heroin by snorting or smoking it (Eric Clapton for example had a major habit but in his autobiography makes it clear he did not inject it, being terrified of needles.) Maybe Dawn took it but not intravenously. Look at the scenario. Sam Hobson goes round Saturday morning to Charlie Rowlie’s flat to find Dawn having fits and being taken to hospital. Presumably both men assumed it was a bad reaction to some heroin and told the ambulance men that as that was the authorities first supposition. Charlie then collapsed. One report said the police found items at Rowley’s flat, where Dawn had stayed overnight, which confirmed the use of drugs there. Then they tested them in hospital and realised it might be novichok. So where did Rowlie and Sturgess get it??
Is Sam Hobson also a drug addict? Did they share a dealer? Did he supply it? But Hobson is oK. If Hobson is an addict did he give up the dealers name ? Has his supply line contact been eliminated? Maybe Rowlie was the supply man?
I assume the authorities have found traces of novichok at Rowlies flat but not the source. So police think one of them found it somewhere. This seems likely from the way Hobson says he has been leading police around the places they went, looking for evidence of it maybe a stash.. I do not know what heroin looks like – does it come as a powder? in which case, how would you know a random stash you found was heroin and not strichnine or weedkiller or arsenic? Is it labelled?
And if it is heroin cut with a novichok or a novichok disguised as heroin, how did it get like that ? How long had it been there? Why had it not degraded? The race must be on to find it but so far according to Hobson, have drawn a blank. We still cannot rule out it was given to Charlie as heroin by persons unknown. Or possibly disguised in cigarettes.;
Of course one of them may have found some random container contaminated with Novichok and just got it on their hands . But both of them? And why is Hobson not sick? Presumably the contaminated container is not in their flat, hence continuing police search.
Why a pair of adult nobodies? Children are far more likely to get into trouble through natural curiosity and ignorance. Remember Operation Mincemeat and the tissue of lies about whose corpse was used? Supposedly a dead Welsh tramp, rather than a freshly dead naval rating, killed when HMS Dasher exploded in the Clyde? No children, or social insiders have been involved in either “event”.
You would know when you’ve found a stash of drugs because of how it is packed: in a small paper wrap for easier hiding. Sometimes it will also be wrapped in polyethylene film for moisture protection. So it is not unfathomable that a hidden/discarded contaminated stash remains potent when it is found and used by the victims.
*Dobson not Hobson
More than twenty years on, there is much we do not know about the supposed sarin gas attacks by Aum Shinkyo in the Tokyo subway and elsewhere. The execution today of Asahara, to be followed perhaps by other members involved, is not inconvenient for a number of political figures in Japan and elsewhere. A useful source for this is
https://rense.com//general95/anotherk.html
The likelihood of the truth as opposed to plausible hypotheses emerging here in Britain appears equally remote
“Ritual murder” if you please.
IMO this is all revenge for FIFA humiliating William at World Cup host selection.
Christopher Steele’s first job after “leaving” MI6 was to be employed by the FA.
Knowing going after Blatter et al in the UK courts was too obvious he approached Mike Gaeta a FBI agent in Rome. The Feds duly obliged – despite having zero interest in soccer.
Part of that “investigation” was wire-tapping Trump Tower.
So when Trump is a candidate, Steele again uses Gaeta as his conduit into the Feds for the Pee Pee Dossier (which the Skripals may have been a source for). The Feds bite again. And FBI now have wire-taps of Trump organisation accidentally collected in FIFA investigation making them legal.
So a golden opportunity to disrupt the WC and Trump’s visit to UK presents itself, Operation Mincemeat 2018, and surprise surprise it is in Miller and Steele’s backyard again. The Man and Woman who Never Were.
It seems to me, that this latest “incident” so close to the other one four months ago, has been constructed because of the meteoric rise in enthusiasm for this World Cup, particularly amongst the fans and most of the English commentators – Danny Murphy, Phil Neville, Rio Ferdinand etc.
There is genuine appreciation for the friendliness of the Russian people, the fantastic stadiums, the organisation and the security arrangements. People are openly saying that this is the best World Cup ever – so how does that make May, Johnson and the other bitter idiots feel?
How does it make the civil servants feel, who put so much energy in trying to dissuade England fans from travelling to Russia, the scare stories about violent Russian gangs, homophobic attacks etc?
There are now thousands of English people, including myself, who want to see Moscow, St Petersburg, Kaliningrad, and experience the architecture and culture, but that will become more difficult as the cabal of misery makers in Westminster try to dream up more nefarious incidents to drive a wedge between the UK and Russia.
A pox on their house.
can’t believe you went for “a pox on their house” rather than “a novichok on their door handles”
PJ, I believe a pox to be far more potent than a Novichok LOL
chapeau!
The main obstacle to visiting Russia is not the British government but the visa system. Hopefully the Russian government will see advantages in relaxing this.
For the WC it is relaxed. You have a fan ID, you need no visa.
It mirrors the UK visa process for Russian citizens.
Not completely. In Russia you might have to travel 1000s of miles to get to your nearest consulate, but once you get a visa it is multiple entry for 6 months.
UK visiting Russia still have to visit a consulate, but tourist visas are only 30 days, anything longer is much harder to get.
Russian visas also have the farce of an invitation letter.
Mary
cutting to the chase – cui bono?
1. My starting point is that Dawn Sturgess has to be presumed to be an innocent victim UNLESS she is the woman in the CCTV video (in which case she becomes Perp #1 in the Skripal fiasco). I am not buying the “cigarette butt” story – age/amount/delivery mechanism/shared with Rowlie, but maybe she stumbled on something in liquid form, in a sealed container. If so, where?, but in any case, subject to the caveat above she seems to be more sinned against than sinning.
2. Rowlie appears to have been at the very least an addict, and I have read suggestions of a criminal record, and therefore he was potentially also a dealer. My suspicion on this front is heightened by the fact that he appears to have been entirely unconcerned that Dawn had been taken off to hospital in an Ambulance, and went about his Saturday chores (collecting his methadone from Boots, freeloading of the Baptists Hog Roast) without any concern for her wellbeing. Just a “retail customer” who had overdone it.
My sense is therefore that Rowlie may have been a lowlife scumbag, but not someone with any vested interest in either poisoning Dawn (or himself), or with attempting to assassinate the Skripals, denigrate Russia or achieve anything more ambitious than making it through the day. I consequently think he is no more than an “extra”
3. Sam Hobson? Have a heart and allow the poor chap his 15 minutes of fame; it is, however, notable that he didn’t fall foul of whatever it is that did for Dawn and Rowlie, so physical proximity a) to them and b) to the places they had been does not appear to have played a role in intoxicating anyone. Again, background noise.
4. So, if we assume that all 3 of these lowlifes were collateral damage, there can surely only be two possible conclusions:
a. This is a carry-over from the Skripal incident: unlikely, due to time and environmental considerations, but, even if it is the case, highly suggestive of a major failure by the UK Authorities to investigate this thoroughly over the past 4 months, much less resolve it. In short, it is strongly suggestive that the Police and others have absolutely NO idea how the Skripals were poisoned, and haven’t been able to trace or recreate the mode of delivery. I’m thinking gross negligence and, in a rare moment of agreement of with George Galloway, I consider this the most likely scenario, given an instinctive preference for cockup over conspiracy
b. This was an entirely new and independent “attack”; if we can rule out that any foreign agency would have had even the slightest motive for singling out these two particular individuals, then again, only two options remain: the Russians are habitually focusing on rural England to distribute and deploy their “weapons grade” but apparently ineffective nerve agents, or the UK establishment are behind the whole thing, from soup to nuts. Whether the attack on the Skripals was deliberate, or an unfortunate side-effect of either losing control of substances produced at Porton Down or an operative going rogue, the simple fact is surely that the UK Government, rather than Putin or the Man in the Moon, are directly culpable
Either way, it doesn’t reflect well on the UK authorities (other than the patsy NHS staff in Salisbury hospital), and I therefore come back to the cui bono? question:
1. Is it a distraction from other news (Brexit, Rendition, Windrush, Palestine?)
2. Is it an attempt to undermine the PR value of the World Cup, or Trump’s upcoming summit with Putin?
3. Is it an attempt to desensitise the British public in preparation for further hostilities in e.g. Syria?
4. Is it a shallow “Hegelian Dialectic” attempt to drum up increased funding for the Armed Forces?
All of the above are plausible, but my money is on b and 4 – this is (and always has been) a put-up job by someone within the UK Defence establishment, leaking toxic material from Porton Down with the intention of drumming up and sustaining fears of an imaginary Russian Threat, with the intention of profiting from the subsequent boost to defence spending. The prospect of thousands of England fans coming back from Russia with cynical contempt for the official narrative or – worse still – the prospect of the Kremlin World Cup going down in the annals of British history with the same legendary status as Wembley 1966 was just too much for these people to stomach, and something had to be done
If one or two junkies get wasted in the process, well, where’s the harm? They’ll recover fast enough, and then we can bung them a few quid and a free-for-life methadone scrip in exchange for their silence and, hey presto!, problem solved. Putin is Hitler, the fat cats behind the armaments industry can continue to get rich even if Airbus does pull out of the UK post-Brexit, and what is Putin going to do about it anyway? Novichok us? Don’t make me laugh – that stuff doesn’t exist, it’s just lifted lock stock and barrel from the script of a fictional TV drama series (which ended its UK run in February this year, just before the original Skripal charade).
Move on now – nothing to see here – just a couple of Old Etonians trying to hang onto their birthright, and a handful of opportunistic politicians trying to pretend they are important
A factor that might be used to support your argument is that Porton Down has a long history of experimenting with the thresholds at which nerve agents become lethal and has the knowledge to manipulate the doses that could cause serious harm but not prove fatal. Of course very high risk and if either these two sadly die it would open a new can of worms.
I agree with your analysis. While a), a “carry over” from the Skripal incident is possible I can’t see why there would be novichok still around. Whoever did it would try to minimise any evidence and not drop it off in the city centre. Any drips left open to the environment would almost definitely have degraded so much as to be harmless by now.
Casualty Consultant Stephen Davies – a man whose job it is to know, before being authority slapped, categorical that no people were admitted to his accident and emergency ward with nerve agent poisoning. Ergo if the Russians didn’t poison the Skripals, they didn’t poison these two. Only one option – drug war. The hairy angels vs the skank st gang. You need a competent chemist to manufacture some of these drugs and that’s all it takes to be able to manufacture this novinonsense according to some experts, a competent chemist or a huge PR and media machine.
More credible than the official nonsense no? Look at the contradictory bullshine spouted by the media tards and those they whore for. Ten times more potent than VX, nobody dead, 3 people poisoned, 10 people poisoned, 20, more than 40, nobody poisoned, 5 people poisoned, men in full warfare hazchem suits stood next to comparatively naked Bobbies who are presumably immune resistant, washes away with soapy water, hangs around forever, slow acting, fast acting yadda yadda yadda. And then the timings, oh the timings…
No normal brain should accept any of this novinonsense other than as a prime example of the depths of insane filth many aspects of these once fine islands have sunk to. I’m off for a lie down then watch some footie – heck those Ruskies are putting on a good show are they not….
It’s one of the most lethal poisons ever created by man ffs, designed to stop armies in their tracks and so volatile and dangerous as to be stored in binary form. Nobody even remotely dead.
Q – How can we infer the Russians aren’t involved?
A – They’re still alive aren’t they?
Speaking to BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner, the source said the Novichok was so toxic it was able to pass through the skin and did not need to be ingested
So toxic it takes four hours to be absorbed.
Good dispassionate post here, crediting Craig.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/07/06/novi-j06.html
The furore is abating, the storybis less prominent. I wonder if the government have taken soundings and found that the latest episode is making the populace more sceptical that the Russians are behind the poisonings and is in fact counter-productive.
Hmmmm. Any chance Skripal was connected with drug distribution, and tolerated by MI6 for whatever reasons. Daughter as a link. Upset his Russian/Turkish organised crime contacts. It’s one avenue I haven’t seen explored yet, and provides a link between the two events. The male had a conviction for possession of heroin wraps, likely a dealer. Don’t get me wrong, I think Putin’s lot are quite capable of doing the job, but cannot for the life of me see why they would use that method at that time.
Chris, I agree with you on Putin. And a joke to this:
During the “dry law” (alcohol prohibition) police comes to a man:
– Sir, we arrest you now for the law violation!
– It’s a mistake, officer, I’ve got no alcohol!
– may be no alcohol at the moment, but you’ve got a distiller device!
– thus you can arrest me for rape also.
– did you rape anybody, sir?
– no, officer, but I’ve got the device.
Ref Tom Tugendhadt, chair of the Forign Affairs Committee, aka Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Georg John Tugendhat MBE VR – quoted by the BBC this morning. He has been the MP for Tonbridge and Malling since 2015.
‘Military career
On 6 July 2003, Tugendhat was commissioned into the Educational and Training Services Branch of the Adjutant General’s Corps, Territorial Army, British Army, as a second lieutenant (on probation). His commission was confirmed on 16 July 2003 He transferred to the Intelligence Corps on 29 July 2003.
He was promoted to lieutenant on 16 July 2005, captain on 1 April 2007, and to major on 1 January 2010. He had been promoted to lieutenant colonel by July 2013.
Tugendhat has seen service on operations during the Iraq War and the War in Afghanistan. He later served as the military assistant to the Chief of the Defence Staff.
__
On 12 July 2017, Tugendhat was elected chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee. Soon after the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury by a nerve agent, Tugendhat said the attack was “if not an act of war … certainly a warlike act by the Russian federation”.
__
On 21 May 2018, Tugendhat’s Foreign Affairs Committee published a report heavily criticising the law firm Linklaters on the work it undertook relating to the initial public offering of EN, a Russian company with alleged close ties to the Kremlin. The Committee was widely criticised for failing to comprehend the statutory rules of confidentiality that would likely have made it an offence for Linklaters to give evidence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Tugendhat
—
September 7, 2017
Profile: Tom Tugendhat, successful insurgent and a possible future Tory leader
https://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2017/09/profile-tom-tugendhat-successful-insurgent-and-a-possible-future-tory-leader.html
‘.In his maiden speech in the Commons, Tugendhat quoted St Thomas More, and referred to his father, Sir Michael, a high court judge, whose own father, Georg, was of Austrian J.wish descent, had come to London after the First World War to study at the London School of Economics, and set up the Manchester Oil Refinery.
Another of Georg’s sons, Christopher Tugendhat, became a Conservative MP, served as a European Commissioner, and is now a Conservative peer.
The family is of an interest which cannot be fully drawn in a short profile. And Tom Tugendhat is married to Anissia Morel, a woman of striking good looks who is herself from a distinguished French diplomatic family, and works full-time as a judge of the supreme court in Paris. They have two young children.
In the EU referendum, Tugendhat was a firm Remainer. He is good friends with Ed Llewellyn, who used to be David Cameron’s chief of staff and is now Ambassador in Paris.’
___
And of course, he is a Conservative Friend of Israel
https://cfoi.co.uk/40-conservative-mps-and-lords-attend-cfi-lunch-with-deputy-israeli-ambassador/ Good dinner, heaps better than in Gaza.
A whizz kid with all the right connections.
Recipient of large donations too
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=25374
especially £27,500 from David John Coldman who is
.https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=827160&privcapId=252186
‘That’s the way to do it’.
I bet the tw@ went to Eton/Oxford too! Somehow it dawns on me that the Eton/Oxford is actually much worse than Herr General Heinrich Muellers fabled GeStPo schools. (They were capable of making people confess to crimes their parents did, which Impressive Police Investigative Work (Tm)) So the UKUS will have to settle with the odd ens and pieces they get at Cheltenham and mostly in Vinrginia, Trumpistan. But the British breed of these incompetents always fail with a “Stiff Upper Lip”, a genetic (mis)trait is is confided to Perfidious Albion. It can be acquired however, by abstaining from sex, and if you do have sex being a failure at it and having propensity to seek out underage girls and boys or both. Furthermore it is an absolute requirement that you must be able to sell out everyone you know, have no hidden talents, and if you can gamble away a fortune it helps too.
This special breed of nonentity is absolutely USUK, as of course the Anglo rejects mainly founded Trumpistan, and quickly decided that the other tw@’s were far away….. Well surprise, surprise Little Perfidious, your Bankrupt Big Brother is far away now ‘aint he, and the Ruskies are coming, coming to take your money away…. No they are not. They HAVE done that, mainly because of the Etonford Zombies they brown nosed in charge. You know nobody is coming, he has not got time and somebody is on vacation and everybody does not care!! So Perfidious Ttanic slink off t’wards the west, meet your Debtberg (Tm) preferably in the GIUK and give Iceland (Nice Women) (Tm) a chance for new cod breeding grounds, we need cod, plenty of cod with Triby’s and Bowler’s.
And we on the Sane Peoples Place aka the continent can wave to the Irish (I might see an ancestor) and drag them in to a True Commonwealth, we we at least give some value to people and their right to a meaningful life for them and their children.
Scots… Wut ? …. Ohhhhhh Scotland, well they will have to show some cojones, not this slave mentality and get that Indy ref Mrk 2, if they don’t , too bad then , its their choice.
Perhaps we’ve all been barking up the wrong trees – supposing it’s all just a gimmick by DuPont to sell off some of their old stock of Hazmat suits? After all, who would want to go shopping in Salisbury High Street (or even to the park) without one?
Here is something some of you may be interested in:
‘SAYING NO 2 THE ANTISEMITISM LIBEL’: https://www.gofundme.com/saying-no-2-the-antisemitism-libel
Crowdfund for a good attempt to throw a spanner in ‘THEIR’ works.
Excellent article.
Ian Blackford was doing well on QT last night until he started on the Russian nonsense – I had to switch it off.
As an SNP member I was ashamed of his remarks.
Anybody who professes belief in the UK government’s narrative on this question is either a fool or a rogue.
That’s strange. I was assured on here last night that the SNP were not buying this latest unevidenced, warmongering accusation against Russia. That they may somehow been convinced by the Tories in March but that this one was so ludicrous they had immediately rejected it out of hand.
Maybe the SNP just can’t help it. It seems to crave bourgeois ‘respectability’. What is not allowed is definitely forbidden. Didn’t Salmond get booted out for being politically too edgy? Its mps struggle to think out of the box of conventions. It is not a ‘radical’ party, such a party wouldn’t give a damn for Westminster codes of behaviour, propriety, Britishness. They walked out, then walked back in, normal service resumed. And the point was?
The SNP is a party of devolution, not independence. I do wonder how many of its ‘upper echelons’ actually believe in the ultimate prize. It is not the Scotch bonnet hot topic it ought to be.
What exactly drives Scottish nationalism these days? In the ‘foundation years’ it had some form of cultural intelligentsia behind it. Today it appears a rather conventional, amorphous British political grouping.
Having said all that, there is as yet no alternative, so stick with nurse. How British is that!
If they’ve ‘officially’ decided to run with the BritProp on Amesbury, alas poor saps.
If they’re lining up behind the Tories on this, you would have to believe they’re capable of supporting the Tories on literally anything.
We’ll Nicola certainly wasn’t buying it. And there’s no way Ale Salmond would have touched it. Shame on him, and I’m sure he’s not representing his party, with such a response.
Hillary fan girl Nicola was one of the leading Bear baiters over the Skripal nonsense, so I’m intrigued to hear she’s certainly not buying this latest one.
What are you basing your claim on?
Agreed. The SNP’s stance on this anti-Russian novichock nonsense, both in the Commons and on QT, twice, echoing the Tory government line, is both perplexing and nauseating. What the hell are they playing at?
The SNP didn’t have the balls to sign Craig Murray up as a candidate. Imagine having Craig in your ranks at PMQs! The Yes movement needs to grasp the reins from the SNP if we are to achieve a more progressive Scotland. The longer this state affairs goes on, the closer the SNP will get to the establishment, and then undoubtedly lose their leading lights e.g. Mhairi Black.
“Either a fool or a roque”, or have had the Privy Council injection.
In his interview on Today this morning, Frank Gardener was – rather surprisingly – prepared to allow that there were gaps in the account and that no definitive proof had yet been provided of a link direct from Putin to the Scripal cases, far less these new ones. I also noted that – in contrast to other BBC reporters – Gardener did not talk of novichoc, as if it were the name of a specific chemical compound. Instead he spoke of “a” novichock i.e. a member of a class of neurotoxins (which can be made anywhere that has the technical resources to make, store and/or deply the toxic chemical.
As a non-chemist, it seems reasonable to suggest that tests might be able to show if two samples of the compound came from the same batch. The suggestion that the toxic effects reduce over time, especially with exposure to and chemical reactions with the atmosphere, also seems plausible. So, as Simon Jenkins suggests in today’s Guardian, best to ttreat both episodes as on-going enquiries with many unanswered questions and many facts in the chains of evens not known.
Why doesn’t a philathropist offer to fund a conference between experts, including those from Russia and from Porton Down (plus the UN and American, Chinese, Indian and Israeli scientists as well), to determine how many novichoks can be identified and how they can be differentiated, including stages of deterioration/later chemical changes; and which states have created and stored them so far.
Simon Jenkins is indeed correct that we should regard both episodes as on-going enquiries, but that is profoundly NOT the world we are living in. The top spooks, Boris, Theresa, Sajid, Gavin and all have declared that it was 100%, absolutely, definitely “the Ruskies wot dun it”.
Let us proceed on the basis that my favoured hypothesis is roughly accurate and the culprit is a rogue chemist from Porton Down with a screw loose and some attention seeking / God complex agenda (other theories are available).
So the culprit walks into a Salisbury police station and confesses to the Desk Sargent that “it was me wot dun it”. What happens? Nothing, or to be more precise, a D notice, a lifetime’s holiday in Broadmoor (or something quicker and more permanent).
Law enforcement and the judiciary system in this country is no more. Reality is determined by what is politically expedient for the executive.
There is no more government, we are under the sinister control of a regime.
please do not refer to the democratically elected Government of the United Kingdom as a “regime”. It is of course a “junta”
Regime does confer a sense of stability and order, unlike our weak and wobbly government,
Dear Ian , you are all to reasonable a man. Forget about that! Any reasonable human being would have suggested your last proposal, but it is not in the interest of the “philanthropists” that are, and who grows richer and richer by an alarming rate. Please wake upp and see you have unfortunately been had.
Most of these “philanthropists” had companies that avoided taxes, underpaid workers and tried to set aside laws that reigned them in. They are not your friends, they are your enemy, they will rob you kill you if it serves their interest.
We are pawns, only if if are united and firm, are we strong.
I have just seen a new book on Amazon by the inventors of Novichok, it was titled “An All Inclusive Remedy on Unemployment and Homelessness”.
I have reasons to believe that The Walking Dead aka the British Cabinet has bought the book and read it eagerly. They did read another title by another author (forgot name, Heinrich something) but title ” The Final Solution on Unemployment and Homelessness” , maybe got the title wrong too.. Look there is a squirrel!! its in a trance! Its foaming!!
Anyway Vlad phoned this morning (Yes, we First Class Bots have his direct number, and direct and often access) and asked how the Trolling was coming along, I dutifully answered (standing attention, mind you!) that I was proceeding poorly, that the British were more daft than my last visit, ect, ect, of course excuses! But Vlad was grattious and gave me a pay rise of 17 kopeks an Hour!!, and I was happy! He furthermore revealed, I have his trust, all True Bots have) that the Deplorable Bitish Government had placed and order for 30000 tonnes of Novichok Mrk. 3, but they at present did not have any. I suggested they just supply some third rate narcotic, lace with a nasty pesticide, get the money and play stupid. He did not like the playing stupid part. And thought it was a bit “too much”. Then I asked him if he ever read the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian, ect, ect ? And the he was more keen, he did understand what it meant to be A Front Line Putinbot (Tm). But I got a concession out out of him, he knows I am a Bleedin’ Hearth Socialist (he fancies it secretly) that I tell in advance what the plans are and who is behind. He of course said “Who will believe you?”
But now its done! I have told you Your own government wages a war on its populace, on the most vulnerable part of the populace, the poor, the destitute, the homeless, the unemployed! Your fate will be that of the roving bands of idiots in the US, complete without any moral or societal compass, bereft of all human values, left in adaze of Internet Porn, Cheap Opioids, Unemployment, and homelessness.
Heed my words, this will happen. Within a decade.
Den Lille Abe is well known Putinbot, often trying to propagandize his views on Socialism, Cooperation and Understanding across borders. He lives in Sweden, is rather well off, donates to Syria and Yemen, and tries to stick to the socialist agenda, ( Socialist is not Liberal, on the contrary we regard Liberals as a greater threat than conservatives (UK excluded, they are criminals, hang them).
You are a bot, a 77th Brigade one.
‘Open Thread: The Amesbury Couple and the Reborn Novichok Saga’:
https://off-guardian.org/2018/07/05/open-thread-the-amesbury-couple-and-the-reborn-novichok-saga/
I would be very surprised if Charlie Rowley, if not an undercover cop, was not at least a police informer.
How Porton Down experimented with chemical weapons on the general public.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/porton-down.shtml
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
Do we really trust what our government tells us, and more important what they do to us?
The answer to that is emphatically not.
@ Andyoldlabour July 6, 2018 at 12:36
‘..Do we really trust what our government tells us, and more important what they do to us?
The answer to that is emphatically not.’
Well, ‘we’ certainly don’t, but there are some regular commenters on this blog who either do, or at least pretend to.
Police now looking for an “unknown object” contaminated with novichok!!!
You couldn’t make it up. But someone did. Perhaps the security services hired Chris Morris as a scriptwriter.
Just pick an object, any object, take it to Porton Down and they can contaminate it with Novichock – no worries.
‘I**AELI MINISTER THREATENS SYRIA OVER VIOLATING 1974 AGREEMENT’:
https://southfront.org/israeli-minister-threatens-syria-over-violating-1974-agreement/
I**ael stepping up to the plate to defend their headchopping assets in Syria.
‘They’re only terrorists when WE say they’re terrorists’, kinda thing.
Syria should just threaten them back.
@ bj July 6, 2018 at 23:24
What conglomeration has the ‘Little Satan’s’ back? And, anyhow, they have the 4’th most powerful military in the world (thanks to the US Joe Public’s policies, no matter what the ‘Little Satan’ did to the USS Liberty (to say nothing about 2001)?
The West has long (since the 1950’s) been after ‘Regime Change’ in Syria, and tried more recently to get Turkey, the ‘Little Satan’ and Iraq to ‘gang up’ on Syria (but then Syria had it’s ‘Strategic Deterrence’, CW’s (now no longer, due to bloody lies and threats).
I find it difficult to believe you don’t realise all this already, already.
there’s a new ad on tv fronted by eddie izzard (some form of celebrity??) on behalf of unicef – it tells of the starvation felt by hundreds of kids in Yemen and ask that we the british population to donate – yet he and unicef completely ignore the fact that the british government is up to its eyeballs in the murder and demolition of Yemen – by backing and funding arms to Saudi Arabia we are one hundred percent responsible for the plight of the people of Yemen in yet another ILLEGAL WAR – ’bout time Eddie was informed of the facts – the lies and hypocrisy of unicef is there for all to see
The Groaniad seems to have lost its nerve and discovered at least one marble – excellent article by Jenkins, obviously no comments allowed, and no report from the mysterious neolithic site today!
One hopes that the height of madness has been reached at the Guardian Towers, some of the writers need a long break in a spa and retraining as teddybear restorers or something less demented.
Even the usually acerbic Hyde went all asinine on her attack on Sarandon and got what-for below the line for her troubles.
Hohum bring on the dogdays.
Update : The story so far: Friday 6th July 2018
well we have a timeline of sorts now.
Friday 30th June 2018: Rowley with Sturgess (his girlfriend) and Dobson (their mate) hung out around Amesbury and Salisbury – presumably scoring drugs alcohol etc. Rowlie and Sturgess then went home to his flat overnight.
Saturday morning 2nd Jul 2018: Dobson rolls up to Rowlies flat to find a “fitting” Sturgess being taken off in an ambulance. The assumption at this stage seems to be duff heroin as Rowlie and Sturgess are known to the authorities for substance abuse. (Police later say drug equipment found in flat).
Saturday afternoon 1st July 2018: Rowlie and Dobson drift off to Boots to collect Rowlies methadone, then make their way to the Baptist church BBQ. Here the pastor notices an unkempt and out of it Rowlie and is concerned. He tries to get him to eat something.
Saturday evening 1st July 2018: The two men return home (assume Rowlie’s flat) and discuss taking clothes to Sturgess in hospital. At this point Rowlie, who Dobson says was sober, starts fitting and hallucinating. Dobson calls an ambulance for him. Assumption still seems to be contaminated heroin.
1-4,the July 2018 :At some stage in next 4 days, hospital staff discover evidence of novichok style poisoning in both. Confirmed by PD. Presumably Rowlie’s flat is searched. without success and the police start trying to work out what happened.
3rd July 2018: After 4 days authorities still none the wiser on novichoks source release story into the wild. Dobson talks to press, says he has no symptoms despite authorities constantly phoning him to check. He helps police retrace friends movements in 24 hours before they were admitted to hospital but turn up nothing. Police decide they must have touched something contaminated with novichok likely same one as used in the Skripals, maybe discarded. General view it must have been inside or weather would have reduced its potency. But where? Authorities have no idea as of following Friday, how victims came into contact with it, in what form, where and when but speculate it was by touch. Also experts issue wildly varying opioniins on how long novichok remains active in the wild.
There is speculation it was via cigarette buts or in a phial or other container, maybe masquerading as Heroin, or something unrelated.Or even it was planted on them to get rid of them as they are somehow tied into the Skripals poisoning. At present very little is known as both are unconcious in Salisbury hospital.
Sorry Hobson not Dobson, the heat is getting to me…..
Mary Paul, thank you for the update.
I just thought about, well… What if Novichok gets activated by water?
I think it could probably be a relatively solid substance, on getting wet it could change its structure (gel?) and become poisonouse, and loosing its dangerous power with further dilution.
What if water IS the second component?
This could explain the contradictions in experts’ opinions.
Also, I recall it was stated Sturgess was found in her bathroom, Rowlie was going to take a shower before starting hallucinating.
Skripals, what if they didn’t touch Novichok on the doorknob, but on the contrary they themselves smeared it with wet hands?
Or, perhaps,vthey touched something like dust on the door, that turned into gel later during wet weather? If so, Skripals really could be getting poisoned every time they washed their hands. It fits into initial statement that they were poisoned several times. And, the last washing of hands must be after their lunch before going to the park.
If so, Novichok must be found in places where Sripals got contact with water.
@ Tatyana July 6, 2018 at 15:04
Tatyana, I find it very difficult indeed that you take any of this business seriously; it is so obviously a ‘False Flag Hoax’ to frame Russia.
It is possible this whole thing is an unsanctioned op by rogue ex MI6 officers
We know this is their backyard and they have personal beefs against Putin, Trump and FIFA.
As Olly North said this seems like a neat idea, hitting all three.
@ Patrick Mahony July 6, 2018 at 15:31
See my reply to Tatyana. The only ‘rogues’ are not ex, but active, ‘Spooks’ and their evil controllers in the HoC and No. 10 (and, of course, their ‘behind the scenes’ controllers, who control the previous two).
As any true Irishman would be aware of.
In the Land of the Free, a black woman protesting about Trump’s handling of children in cages, at the foot of the Statue of Liberty, is put into a choke hold and removed.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door”
The New Colossus poem, seems not to matter anymore, in the Land of the Free.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhWKKAfWAAACT17?format=jpg
The Pasha of Egypt, shouldve agreed to Bartholdi’s, Egypt Carrying the Light of Asia statute.
Send sound reasoning.
DERA (Defence Evaluation Research Agency) stated in 1999: “In the event of a military question arising which could only be answered by conducting open air trials in areas which might involve the general public, Ministers have made it clear they cannot rule out conducting larger scale trials in the future, to try to ensure the protection of the UK from attacks by people or States using Chemical or Biological weapons”. As I understand it the previous open air trials in populated areas, notably the Dorset Coast and London Underground, were all classified and only came to light many years subsequently.
Interesting note on syntax and the reporters no commital to explore further
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IndependentMediaUK/permalink/1441256432686606/
[ MOD: Caught in spam-filter, timestamp updated ]
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I do not have the information you clearly have but I agree with what you are saying. I have doubted the news reports ever since the first one and having read you piece here I am more convinced than ever that the Russians are not the cause of this.
Still no info of what the occupation is for Charlie and Dawn?
Are they one way or another connected to the police/rearch group on Skripal case?
Was the poison meant for someone else? Misplaced?
That 2 people happen to somehow get in touch with this poison, I cant buy that..
long time unemployed, due to their drug and alcohol problems
Thanks Iam trying to figure out any possible connections where he/she could have got in touch with the alleged novichok,
I read somewhere that Charlie lived in a pretty well-paid facility housing, any info on how he has able to live there considering he must have been quite low on cash due his unemployment?
Thanks God it was Novichok. They will be good soon, probably looking younger and fitter (e.g. Viktoria Skripal, see below), their possessions will be bought overpriced by taxpayers and will be given free hidden indefinite accommodations at UK’s public expense. No more boring family birthday’s celebrations or worries about having a job, just need to copy a letter by hand and read it on camera once!
Compare that to a simple, mundane O.D.
https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/1002167005884157953